A Tribute to the Persian Windmill - The Process
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- čas přidán 5. 01. 2017
- "A Tribute to the Persian windmill" is a triptych consisting of three wind sculptures. This experimental art project was carried out in 2016 and exhibited in front och the Vaasa City Art Gallery in Finland. The project was inspired by the principles of the ancient Persian Windmill - a simple construction in which one side of a vertical turbine is covered whereas the wind pressure affects only the opposite side of the vertical axis
Each turbine weighs 15-20 kilograms. The turbines are floating on water, generating minimum friction at a low cost.
The sculptures are made out of recycled materials - for example fabric from old raincoats.
The project illustrates the potential of lowbudget&lowtech solutions as an opposite to the hype for high tech.
These turbine models should have potential to be further developed - considering that they were mounted on ground level between trees and high buildings (were the wind speed tends to be low). The next phase of the project will be to eliminate the noise and to attach gears and a generator.
Here you can see a movie clip of the final versions in action: • A Tribute to the Persi...
Here is another clip of the small scale models: • A Tribute to the Persi...
More information at www.simonshares.org - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Nice reconstructions of the ancient mills :) Those are about the right size I've been considering for building a sand battery heater.
The greatest inventions were made in the backyard! Super, good job! Thanks for your creativity!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This type of wind turbine is an ancient design known as a panemone. The moving flaps can be rigid or cloth as in a sail. It 'tacks' like a sail boat harnessed to a wheel. Before there were engines, wind and sails moved ships across the oceans. The Persians combined sails with a horizontal wheel. This is a nice tribute to their ingenuity.
Thankyou for bringing this type of windmill to my attention by making this video!
Damn...Ingenious!
This reduces the negative impact of wind on the leading edge as well.
Very impressive and easy to DIY design.
A thinking person.Please do not stop.Do not hear the knockers.I have been toying with this for 40years.I love your take on it.
Glad to hear that you also have been experimenting :)
Conceptually and regarding design the Persian windmill. Nice to pay tribute to that!
Even more great that you've tested it thius way! Very informative, good steps in thinking. look forward to final model!👌⚡💡
Beautiful models.
I'm glad to hear you like them ;)
Impressive. My hobby, similar to yours, is optimizing the panemone windmill. The direction that I have gone is to divide each flap into a number of flaps. As they get smaller... inertia, momentum, gravity, weight, and noise will all approach zero. Power and efficiency will increase. I'm currently playing with 2” X 4” inch fencing with hard aluminum foil pivoting within each rectangle. Really hard foil (like aluminum beverage cans) acts like a spring, too.
You have a video of your work, or something similar?
Wonderful video. Thank you ❤️
I´m glad you liked it ;)
True engineering 👌🏻👍🏼
Yo me sumo Simon Gripenberg de la brillantes de sus esfuerzos y realizaciones de sus trabajos. Solo soy un aficionado que ve con gusto el ingenio de lo que muestran trabajos " VERDADEROS " . Un saludo desde Buenos Aires Argentina , Esperando sus aportes de buenas ideas e ingenio por este medio.-GRACIAS.-
Genius!
Thanks Simon, well done.
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it :)
@@SimonShares You are welcome.
Its a very interesting method of dealing with the following edge and its air resistance until it becomes the leading edge to produce rotation.
I visualized a shapeshifting wind turbine a few years ago but dropped the idea.
I figured it would be loud and prone to breakdown.
Deep respect for the man who built this.
There MIGHT be a way around the problem if you scale up 20x.
The rotor would turn slower but with more torque.
That would allow the blades to flex using linear actuators.
I also think that the endurance is poor if there are too many moving part. Especially the version with fabric would wear out quite fast. However there is a high torque in these models so I also think there could be some potential in a slowrotating rotor and a generator high transmission gear ratio.
Great brother...
Awesome 👍
U are doing yr best keep on and you will succeed don't give up
This is sublime.
It staggers me you've only had four comments.
It does not take much imagination to see how adaptable it is.
Or how easy to build using only basic materials and tools.
You've certainly inspired me and it will be my next project.
Thanks
I´m glad to hear that you got inspired by the project :)
More than inspired.
I'm now in the process of getting the materials to build one.
Am I right in assuming the central column floats on a base suspended in water in the "well".
If so what material did you use to attain buoyancy
Yes, it floats. I simply filled a large bucket with spray foam - but I'm sure there are better ways to do it. I imagine that the friction would be even lower if the buoy had been narrow&high instead och wide&low (the speed of the outer surface of the buoy would be lower), but I did´t try that out. It would be interesting to hear about your project, maybe you can send me some pictures later on?
@@SimonShares Thanks for your reply.
I've been away for a few days and just seen it.
Never communicated with anyone on CZcams before, so did not know
what to expect.
However thank you for your inspiration and advice.
I am toying with the idea of converting it to pump water for a simple
circulatory aquaponic system.
I will try and send you photos once I start building.
very smart!
Awesome
Pretty cool stuff.
Glad you liked it :)
Great work
Thanks!
Floating support is a good idea.
I've seen other rotating vanes but they're mostly too close to the vertical axis to deliver useful torque.
Some designs use a rotating protective airfoil on the upwind half, eliminating the need for streamlining the backs of vanes.
IMO this could be a good project for evolutionary design.
Thanks for your comments!
So simple and so clever! As an alternative to achieving frictionless rotation, a single ball bearing set in a recessed dwelling would sufficiently allow the vertical post to freely rotate. Also, with a bit of tweaking, it’s conceivable to gain lift, albeit a negligible amount, from such a contraption ... nothing new under the sun, afterall.
Excelente 🇩🇴🇩🇴🇩🇴🌎
I can see applications for a vertical axis wind generator. With quiet material, you could put them as corner posts for a patio. Imagine building a 50 foot tall "silo" that could produce incredible amounts of power.
I have also thought about the potential of a largescale/slow-spinning (with high transmission). There would probably be some endurance problems, since there are many moving parts..
If the shaft could be suspended in a pool of light machine oil, and the transmission be a simple manual shift transmission, also in the light machine oil, using a technology that is called autoshift manual transmission, using the same theory as is used in trucks, but adjusted to control output shaft speed, could that work.
Maybe 50 feet is the wrong height, make it 100 meters tall and 20 meters around, lol. I am looking at building one on a smaller scale than 50 feet, I am thinking 3 meters tall and attached to a building with the works inside, When I get a place in the country where I can work in peace. In town, Vertical axis lantern types seem to be less noisy, and take less square footage to be used.
I looked at your other videos, did not view them yet, but the biomimicry concept of energy production sounds interesting. I will have to look at some of them when I have time to take notes and verify a few things.
nope. its just yard ART.
Thank You for the great video and information. With this design there will be less resistance. Noise equals fast wear and tear. Sad! It still has the same flaw as other VAWTs . The water bearing would be interesting.
The plans were taken away by the CIA the FBI and ancient aliens that came to earth took back the plans. Nobody wants to have cheap energy, the illuminati is at work, that's why this has not put into effect, not because it sucks , not because you are using some ancient Persians toy. No is not that, IS the government! and oil companies. yeah.
Very inspiring! The noise could also be minimised by the form of the blades, in that way that they do not hit but roll against the limitation.
What does "float on water " mean? is the main post attached to some kind of balloon?
Nice
I realize these are only experiments but I was wondering on how the metal vanes held up to wear and tear? I had a steel sign in my yard hanging on two i-hooks. Within a year's time of moving back and forth in the wind, it wore a slot through the sign from the hole to the top of the sign and required drilling a new hole. I see the metal vanes flapping in your windmill and wonder how it all holds together over a long term period and will it require a lot of maintenance? Another thought to consider on other materials; are they UV resistant? Plastic vanes would require dark/opaque pigment to relegate the UV attack to only the surface and not the interior of the plastic. UV breaks the polymers making the plastic brittle. Another question, how efficient is this windmill compared to a propeller type windmill?
Hi and thanks for the response! Opposite vanes are connected through a hole in the main vertical axis. They have a 90 degree difference in angel, which means that when one of the vanes "closes" the opposite opens. For long term use I think the horisontal axis that the vanes are fixed to should be more robust and be supported by small bearings. Thanks for the advice about using UV resistant materials. I haven´t yet attached a generator, so I can´t tell you about efficiency - but I suppose it is lower compared to traditional propeller type - the efficiency of a Savonius rotor (which is a bit similar to these versions) is quite low. But if it would be possible to use mostly recycled materials I assume that it would be possible to compensate by going up in scale…
The power to the fan was donated off the Grid.
Very interesting, i think the german v1 buzz bomb used a flapping door format of arrangement similar to your wind turbine but of course they used kerosene to create the wind/thrust, very noisy hence the buzz name.
my favorite is the silent one
How about a magnetic bearing? Opposing magnets near friction-less so no drag from the water. Three wheels at the top of the centre axle to keep it straight as opposed to that large hole you are using. Oh you have inspired me to at least dream a little.
Try putting the axis of every flap just a little above the center of the flap. Just enough to make them still flap. That would greatly reduce energy loss from the turning of the flaps. The wind lifting weight of the flaps is power loss.
Then making the flaps longer will give you exponentially more torque as your wheel diameter increases.
The bigger you can get your wheel diameter, the less your rpm. but the more your power yield.
The more your flaps have to move up and down, the more power loss you get.
I absolutely believe in this principle. It has superior yield, at least in low wind areas compared to the propeller type. it takes a lot of power to push a galleon cross an ocean, and this principle is actually sails on a wheel. Keep up the good work bro, you're on to something big.
Go onto patent websites, you can see tons of drawings of this pending for patent. But the principle maybe thousands of years old. A chinese version of it is a horizontal cross with four triangular sails on it. Used for hoisting water up a well. A lot more simple construction than your versions, but yields actual applicable power.
They got it right, using four sails on one cross beam in stead of so
many small flaps.
Thanks for the response! I also think adjusting the axis of the flaps towards their centers would work better. If the flaps are in different layers (like in the test model), the noise could be reduced if there were a small distance between the layers - so the flaps wouldn't bump into each other. Somehow I have been stuck to the idea of using many small flaps (to maybe get the sense of a "wind membrane") instead of larger ones. Using a few larger flaps/wings would of course simplify the construction. When it comes to turbulence I´m sure there are differences between small and large flaps - hard to imagine what the optimal flap height would be. At least they could be longer to generate more torque, as you mentioned..
If there is a generator connected it stops. How is that any good?
Factoring in economies of scale and square-footage density, there's ALLOT these could do. Moving parts would be a problem, but ANY long-life bearing system would solve that problem, as long as static friction was also taken into account. There are other Z-Axis Windmill designs, and this one really doesn't stand out among THAT pack, but COULD be a viable option if appropriately produced and delivered to a commercial market ! Ease of Access (for repair and maintenance purposes, etc.) could be one reasonable advantage, but even there, Z-Axis windmills all share that advantage. One CLEAR advantage the Z-Axis windmill has is its in-use impact, both on nearby Human and Wildlife populations. Interesting idea, CERTAINLY one worth developing if someone wanted to. Might be an interesting way for an experimenter to enter a Commercial Product Market ! I help individuals get their ideas to a "Presentation Stage" (AND if they'd like- through to the "Commercial Prototype stage), and this looks like it could have some potential if someone wanted to put a little "oompf" into it ! There are a NUMBER of Z-Axis Windmills currently capitalizing on Market Value, and there's really NO reason why This - and similar designs - couldn't join that market ! License a patent, PAY the royalties when necessary, and DEVELOP _YOUR_ version ! Have some FUN participating in the FREE MARKET Capitalist System ! -All the VERY BEST to ALL from Texas - Chuck.
ich finde das schwarz-rot-gold-Design am anziehendsten! : )
Das freut mich! Die Turbine ist aus recycled Regenmänteln :)
👍👌
Gostei deste modelo os vizinhos vão reclamar desde aparelhos barulhento
Would like more detail on the water bearing.
The weight of the turbine is suppurted by a buoy that floats in water - as simple as that. Sideways the main vertical axis is supported by two small bearings (one in to top and one above the buoy). The axis is not tightly fixed into to smaller bearings, so it (and the whole turbine) can move upwards and downwards, depending on the water level..
Love your work brother. At min 3.03 I believe you could scale up that model and use neoprene sheeting. Very hard-wearing material and it would require refitting only seldom. Well done.
Thanks, I'm glad you liked the concept! Yes, it might work better with neoprene. Maybe I should try it out. After trying different versions, I think it could work better if the flaps are vertical instead of horisontal - according to this principle (but many small flaps instead of large sails): czcams.com/video/Y6NAl4A75z8/video.html
There is something about this "flap" type system that I find quite intriguing. I have studied all three types in this video numerous times, and still haven't made up my mind which would be the most efficient AND enduring over the long run. But somehow, after considering 1) the noise, and 2) friction, I am more positive toward the fabric model. It may well be the least efficient, but it offers the greatest long term use without requiring preventive maintenance. A strong synthetic thread, and layered with a flexible sealer, would provide long term use, without breaking down. Am I within the ball park?
I think you might be right. There are quite many moving parts in the constructions, so would probably be endurance problems with all versions..
@@SimonShares however weight also adds mass which can also add to regenerative breaking or extra magneto to suck in extra power, the extra friction on bearings is not a good thing this style vs conventional however this can be "allowed" to turn at potentially far more air speeds than a normal one as well, if one were to "float" this where the bottom pin is in a pool of water or something like that and the electric generating parts could be in 2 or 3 sections along the tower.
Solid panels have their uses much much more than fabric ones IMO unless you can figure out the absolute best angle to have permanent fixes fabric, where the metal flaps can be made out of countless materials as well.
I always liked idea of a wind "tower" where you have a bellows that captures as much air at the top as possible and concentrates this down the tunnel to a high cfm style turgo generator impeller
I personally do not think these monstrosities that take up massive land mass for kw of air generation is the way when maybe a vertical style can produce 10x or more in the same area (esp if you couple with micro hydro generation between the towers and/or use excess power to pump water up hills etc etc... there are countless ways ^.^
@@mauriceakamoefortin2510 I also think solid panels would be far better since the fabric would wear out quite soon. However it was easier to test the basic concept with some cheap&recycled light weight materials..
it is just ART
How to reduce the 'sound effect'? Softer material = sort life cycle.
Yard art
moving parts arent nescesary a lenz 2 design vawt it effecient enough with the push and pull motion the wings around it are designed to do.
Torch?
People may need silent wind turbine in down town.
The problem with verticle windmills is...the wobble. There is more stress on one side than the other. More pressure on the downwind side that the upwind, and it is constantly rotating. They will eventually tear themselves apart.
I'm sure these models would break down higher wind speeds. For a long-lasting robust system the construction would have to be simplified..
Can you show or explain your water bearing please?
The weight of the turbine is suppurted by a buoy that floats in water - as simple as that. Sideways the main vertical axis is supported by two small bearings (one in to top and one above the buoy). The axis is not tightly fixed into to smaller bearings, so it (and the whole turbine) can move upwards and downwards, depending on the water level..
Can we see a demo of a cork-screw HAWT in action?How about a 3-tier configuration?Lighter materials?
Noisy model, but look effective
What about using magnetic fields at both ends and using an aluminum pole in center. Hey I'm brain stormin from the new Rolls Royce magnetic engineering miracle,lol, not really but this is food for thought and it might help, check it out to see if your application can benefit.Can't wait to buy/build one whatever you invent/improve.
G'day,
Yay Team !
These are fascinating Garden Ornaments, genuine Dynamic Sculptures.
I trust that you're not hoping to extract anything remotely "worthwhile" in the way of useful Torque from them though ; because the mechanical complexity, operational friction and crudely aproximate nature of the "Aerodynamics" employed appeaer, between them, perfectly positioned to thwart any such ambition.
Have you ever thought of trying to set it up on the bottom of a River (or something built along the same lines, but strong enough for the purpose...) ; being incompressable, the Hydrodynamics might work this thing better than Aerodynamics ever can ?
Backtrack me to my Playlists to see some HAWTs which I designed and built from 1985 to 2000...; then I bought a Solar Panel, and THAT worked (!).
Have a good one,
;-p
Ciao !
Thanks for the comments! Trying this turbine concept with hydrodynamics instead och aerodynamics is an interesting idea. With the flaps open on one side of the main axis, fish could wander through the turbine ;) I'm also thinking more and more about solar panels, since price has gone down and there are no moving parts (minimal maintainance)..
G'day,
Thanks for the response.
Yeah, I too shifted to Solar Panels, just before the Price-drop.
I designed and made a Tracking Mount for my Array, it makes the Panels produce 35% more current, and permits them to dodge Hailstones.
I also got into streamlining PVs for Highway-Speeds when retrofitted to Road-Registered Vehicles - whereinat they save a disproportionate amount of Fuel...; title-search YT for
"The SunFoil Project..." Playlist,
to see that - it's what brought me to YT.
Last week I finished a sort of Tutorial on Carving Helically-Pitched Laminated Wooden Airscrews..., the techniques work for both Propellers and Rotors ; but my current Project is Propellers for small Peltier-Effect powered Electric Stove(top) Fans.
Also, I have a Playlist of Wooden Windmills that I've made..., you might enjoy checking them out...?
Have a good one.
;-p
Ciao !
high winds and low winds are a bug for all tech like this . a old brick chimney may be the way to control the draft , old larger plants have them and some tests with mills for power production . way to big for my poor pocket to play with . the higher the stack the better the draft .the will mill build to the stack , they will be no high winds to damage to the mills , like in wind farms after 3 years life span in high wind zones .and always power .after build free wind and less birds will die . under control always working . a fan blade or chimney size ftw . both of these old techs into one may do the trick
the noise would be extremely annoying after a very short period
A drag device can never even get close to the performance of an airfoil design.
Indeed, but factoring in economies of scale and square-footage density, there's ALLOT these could do. Moving parts would be a problem, but ANY long-life bearing system would solve that problem, as long as static friction was also taken into account. There are other Z-Axis Windmill designs, and this one really doesn't stand out among THAT pack, but COULD be a viable option if appropriately produced and delivered to a commercial market. Ease of Access could be one reasonable advantage, but even there, Z-Axis windmills all share that advantage. One CLEAR advantage the Z-Axis windmill has is its in-use impact, both on nearby Human and Wildlife populations. Interesting idea, CERTAINLY one worth developing if someone wanted to. Might be an interesting way for an experimenter to enter a Commercial Product Market !
@@chuckintexas I think I could reduce the number of moving parts and use small long-livebearing (as use mentioned) to make a more endurable product - that might be commercialized. I think the strength in this models is that the turbine floats on water - a cheap and simple solution. It would be possible to mount the turbine much higher on a tall axis and still have the generator on ground level for maintenance. ..or have more friction in the bouy in order to heat the water. However it still needs a lot of development :)
why the lenz 2 design is still widely used. but I can see these if you cant afford wood.
John you say that because you have never done the math. The propeller airfoil blade design is very poor and is also in reality a drag device. I know of a company that makes a device that drives the blade with compression and not the drag of an airfoil design.
One was very quiet...
Imagine using sailcloth and hardwood.
I tried old bed linen in another project ;) czcams.com/video/umLnjS3m7bk/video.html
LOL no that would be to efficient
Frontal, or 'disc area' is everything for a wind turbine. Although a shroud helps there is too much construction involved. This vertical axis sets of flaps does not make it and I would suggest working on other configurations.
I agree. Might be cool from an artistic perspective, but as far as capturing wind power to generate electricity, this is extremely inefficient!
If you think about making a commercial wind turbine for long time use, I also think these constructions are far too complex. These models are however purely artistic experiments - I plan to develop some of the ideas..
why are there no drawings of these windmills.they would be helpful
There are no precise drawing since these are yet only experimental art projects. On page 55 in this publication issuu.com/simonshares/docs/slowtech-150dpi there is however a rough drawing of one of the models.
because they dont work as well as current design's.. we dont tend to go backward in effeciency.
I did this 35 years ago and does not work well. Too much noise, too little power and too many moving parts to wear out.
This is 35 years behind the design that I have today.
Hi, thank you very much.As an Iranian I have no feeling except sorrow that our grand parents at that old time could use whatever available and use the natural energy and we, today are just like monkeys which just do what other people do, Some creepy powerful assholes stop and kill the creativity of our people.
и опять таки звук. Ночью будет громко работать
video was so quiet, if someone only hears it, these wind sounds will bring scream out.
i was thinking that most free things have been in existance for 1000s of years but now rarely seen. did industrilisation ruined them.
Just too many points of wear and tear to be practical. High maintenance and some models are very noisy.
The one made of rain coats was quiet.
Próbálja ki a görbét. Minta: Csiga ház.
Vagy a külső lemez. Ne hagyja, hogy a szél lecsúszjon.
One of the problems wind mills are facing are noice.
Yes, therefor it would be great with silent smallscale turbines that could generate energy for example on rooftops in cities. I think vertical turbines have that potential - if they could be made cheap, silent and simple enough, so they would require minimal maintenance.
@@SimonShares My cousin put up a windmill and the bearings wore out in a year. The cost of replacement of the bearing made him switch to solar panels as no noise and does not have to replace any parts from excessive wear.
IT may be flapping like a bird, but common sense tells me if you put it in operation, you will be maintaining it everyday such as replacing torned and broken flaps... kekekeke
I totally agree ;) This was an experimental art project, getting to know the wind. I plan to develop the ideas..
@@SimonShares Energy is lost in the process of flapping, meaning the energy transfer from wind to the wheel will have very low efficiency?
@@SimonShares It is an old idea from 35 years ago so has already been done by me.
исполнение примитвное а идея правильная
does any of you read history an title text.
moving vanes adds nothing - fix vanes at 'best' angle' and shield up wind half from the air flow - less resistance - no moving parts yea!
I agree. A stiff structure without moving vanes would of course have the best endurance. I'm however keen to experiment (I see it like "3d-sketching" by building models) to get to know the wind better and see if there could be some alternative technical solutions. Even though the three-bladed HAWT are proven to work, I think that they are quite boring - the same basic model is only getting bigger and bigger. Especially on rooftops I cities I think there is a potential for small-scale vertical turbines..
Problem with that is the 'best angle' changes with wind speed.
Dennis, you're forgetting the need to lower surface area as the wind gets violent.
Hi Paul - good point - I agree - that's why the old farm windmills had an offset angle of the tail fin to the plane of the blades - the higher the wind speed the more the blades were feather out of a direction perpendicular to the wind direction - simple approach...…same could work on this mill...
Dennis
and yet .... the water float reducing the resistance doesn't transmit "work" .... pumping that same water for example from one level to a higher level. Kinetic to potential energy. Wind blows giant tumbleweeds many miles. No one has harvested tumbleweeds tumbling. Not yet.
I also have some idea's...
LOTS OF NOISE !!! WOULD SOON ANNOY YOU AT NIGHT LOTS OF BETTER SYSTEMS AROUND.
Noise generally means that SOMETHING is not working at best efficiency.
For those who don't know, these are paid influencing bots hired by big windmill companies that have much to loose from this design.
I am not a bot. I did this 35 years ago so this is already been done and rejected. The design I have today is much better.
@@owenprince4823
Bot is a general term, like how Trump benefited off of Russian "bots"
To many wear points, to much maintenance and I doubt that it could produce enough torque to do any kind of work
They used them to grind wheat a couple of thousand years ago. So don't have any doubts.
Someones ass will be kicked if they dont top up the water
dumb overthinking remove half the blades then ....
Vertical wind turbines are more of an art project than effective for power generation. They are not efficient. It takes high speed rotation with torq to make real power.
I also think current HAWT-models are far more effective, but I think that a cheap small-scale VAWT-model could have a potential for example on rooftops in cities. These have a high torque, so a high transmission gear ratio might work even though the turbine rotates slowly.
@@SimonShares The city will never allow them of roof tops. The town I live in has banned all windmills from town because one fell over in a school yard on a weekend. If it had fallen over on a school day children would have been killed. Most cities are banning them. You would have better luck with solar panels.
Its great idea, I am interested
Could you please inform your contact?
This is so impractical to much noise and with a load on the shaft I would think no output
Too much turbulence and noise. Using vertical pivoting wing foils is more efficient. These are whirligigs.
I did this 35 years ago so this is an old Idea. Too many moving parts and too much noise. This is 35 year behind my design that I have today.
You clearly didnt read the title. Pesian. It stopt existing over 100 years ago and the original mill is several thousend years.
to many moving parts imo
Fancy but not practical. Maybe good for entertainments at parks
Not very efficient and makes a lot of noise