Does the RE Himalayan 411 have a future?
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- Is there a future for the Royal Enfield Himalayan 411? I was asked this question by one of my subscribers. I give you my thoughts in the video. Let me know what you think in the comments below.
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Keeping my 411, had it since new in 2019 and now almost 20K miles on the clock. Happy to cruise at 55 to 60 mph, returns great fuel economy 80 to 90 mpg, a major service including valve check, oil and filter change, air filter and spark plug costs around £60 and take 90 minutes to do at home....Keeping it for sure.
Great to hear!
Yes you have a good channel too😁👍
The 411, the one and only.
Mine has 20 000 km on the clock and still all the future I will give her.
Cheers from France.👍
The one and only! That's a good way to put it. There is nothing like a true Himalayan
I'm 33 and bought a 411 as my first big bike last year. Did a 1,400 mile UK tour on it in June, no problems. Get med respect riding one of these all geared up.
Yes excellent choice. It will serve you well.
I've had mine for nearly a year now and done 2k miles. Enjoyed every mile, on and off road. So easy to work on. Most places I've stopped, there is someone who wants to know all about it. Keep up the good work. Cheers
Yes great bike on and off road. As you say so easy to work on
Bought my himalayan in 2021 new. 30,000km. Feels like it now just fully run in. Simple to self service, buy the parts from India too. Chugs is a keeper
Love the name. Sounds like you thoroughly enjoy Chugs
I bought one of the five last ones in Belgium before they run out .
First 500 km done. Going to service it myself. Nice bike.
Bike before this one was a Yamaha SRX600. One cylinder. Only kickstart. Rode 23 years with it. Dream bike.
That´s the only thing I miss on Himalayan. Kickstarter.
Agree a kickstart would have been good. Hope you get another 23 years out of your Himalayan
I loved my SRX600!!! wish I had never sold it
@@iantoy7778 In most cases when you drive with respect for the mechanics of your bike , and you maintain it well, it never lets you down.
I´m 57 now, so another 23 years wou´d bring me at 80 🤣.
Bike is going to live longer then the sharpness of my abilities.
Together with my brother I also had a BSA B 40 from 67´.
When he was on his centerstand , turning idle, he hopped through the length of the garage, not having a turning balanceweight .
It was a real pain in the back 🤣.
Cracking ramble. And absolutely nailed why I just bought one, bit spooky really. Same colour Himi, exactly as you predict: £3.2K, 600 miles, 2 years old, lots of extras, from a dealer who had 4 traded for 450’s.
I restored old cars and bikes in the 80,s, learnt spannering climbing all over stacks of cars in breakers yards for parts. Your summary of its practical old school nature is very reassuring, and it’s fun to be intimate mechanically with the machine you own.
Loved the cam and dished valve stem advice, so useful and common sense. + no ego or CZcams strut.
Very enjoyable to watch.
Thanks. No airs and graces here. What you see is what you get - straight up no bullsh*t 😂
I've worked with motorbikes all my life and had my own business for many years.
I agree with you Ian on all points. I think RE must've mis-interpreted or ignored the feedback from 411 owners. They just wanted a few more horsepower not water cooling and electronix. They can go to the Japanese big 4 for that.
I've wanted to try biking again since lockdown and watching various YTers. I nearly got sucked into thinking I need 750cc or more. I didn't think the 20 hp of the Classic 350 would be enough. I waited patiently for something to come up nearby. It did in the end. A Classic 350 dark black with 363 miles on it and a year old. I got it for £3399 with the first service done. It was about a 20 mile ride home on a mixture of medium to fast b and a roads. It got up a few big hills no problem. I'm well happy with it and will be for the ten years I bet.
Great bike. Enjoy
72 years old and returning to motorcycling . Settled for the last 411 in the shop, march 2024 and still smiling, 600 km on the clock. No long trips yet but hopefully when the weather gets warmer.
@@markstratman5628 a good bike for us older guys.
Mine was the first white one in our State back in 2018. 28.5k miles, my favorite bike in the garage. I'll say it once more, it's made for what I do. I've got an '18 Stealth and a '10 Bullet with a sidecar, the Stealth nipping at the Himmi's heels for being my favorite but the Himalayan's still the one.
The Himmie is unique. Nothing else quite like it
The 411 is a fine bike..... always be around , people love them... but.... I test rode the 450 and was blown away by it. Mainly , I have a classic 350 as well and the whole long stroke thumper thing is there with that also, makes me smile every time I ride it. My 411 was always something I wanted a bit more from... more power, more comfort, more space for 2 up with luggage, I did the cam and it was OK and did enjoy it for what it was or is and not sure if I have made the right choice... because I sold it straight away... and I am currently running in my new 450. Yes it's more electronic, but I'm not using the phone to connect to it... I love its dash... it doesn't vibrate and I can see out the mirrors just as well.... its far more comfy, has far better space for wife to sit on, and has better load carrying capacity.... its good enough out the box with power and can cope with boring motorways far better than the 411... have I made the right choice...who knows... if it stays reliable I rekon I will have done exactly that. But the 411 is always a special bike 😊
I'm keeping my 411 but also have a Bullet 500 which I absolutely love. I have just bought an Interceptor 650 for the same reason you bought the 450 - more power. That will be out two up bike when Sue comes out with me.
The 411 will be staying as I like riding the tracks and trails on it.
Good video Ian .
IF you have the right kind of roads , I think the 411 is a good bike ( with a few mods ) .
I've toured quite a bit on a DR650 and that is a very good bike too . Seat however is appalling and it needs a bigger tank . Still has a carb and here in Canada available new for about $7000.
2023 411 Himmys were about the same price , but now you cam get one for $5000.
450s haven't shown up yet .
I agree with you that the 411 will become a cult bike .
It had no direct competitor and I can't really see why RE ditched it .
But RE are masters at reading the market . Who'd have thought that an old fashioned looking , slow chugger like the 350 variants would be such a success ?
They must have a very good crystal ball.
It's definitely a love or hate bike. I am amazed at how many of us love them. Wouldn't be without mine.
I bought mine because valve clearance is as nut and screw it's air cooled and I like the look of it.
It's had it's issues I'll admit but it's my go to bike.
It's 100 bhp and 3 cylinders down on my yam but it puts a smile on my face which what it's all about.
Who needs the extra power
Appreciate the ramble john in St Louis, Missouri !
Thanks
Im keeping my scram 411 as long as i can . I installed TEC cam, the aftermarket tappet valves from Hitchcock's, DNA filter lextec+decat exhaust and an indian kit of chain and sprockets 520 (instead of 525) from takasago. That with bartuless wheels make the bike closer to 30bhp and performance is stellar! That how it should have been from the factory i think.
Sounds like you have done a good job
I personally find it strange that they decided to exit the 411 niche(adv, long stroke, oil cooled), from the monetary side it makes sense since currently the adv market is in very high demand, however they now have to compete practically against all existing manufacturers plus the huge used market that the traditional bikes offer.
I think the battle they are facing with the 450 is one they will lose to the other manufacturers.
Agree. Every man and his dog is churning out more expensive, bigger ADV bikes. RE had a fantastic niche with the 411. Nathan Millward summed it up well I thought when he described it as an ideal travel bike particularly for older or less experienced riders who want something easy to ride and more forgiving.
@@person.X. His review was excellent
Another great video, I know 40° is hot but you’ll be glad you’re not in England this summer! Yes I’m keeping my BS4 .. I’m 68 so you demographic.. I toyed with the idea of a 450 etc, but the Old Himmie is so nice to ride and I’m in no hurry to meet my maker…..! The 411 is easy to fix and cheap to run I knew the first time I rode it this was a bike to love and keep, I’ve hardly ridden my a Speed Twin since I’ve had the Himmie despite the performance difference. See you in the next video… all the best Ian
Thanks. The way I feel at the moment some of your rain would be much appreciated.
I bought the scram: and im happy !
1. I wanted to do the maintenance myself and not use the dealer.
2. I was interested in driving a long-stroke engine.
3. Not too much electronics on the motorcycle.
4. Inexpensive spare parts supply.
5. Often less is more and that is Himalayan
Well said
I’m on my second one due to emigration ( cheaper to buy a new one than ship the first one). I fitted a TEC cam and 16 tooth rear sprocket and that is all it needs to make highway travel more bearable. I say more bearable because it’s a back roads bike that can do the main roads without fuss. If you want to be sitting for long periods on highway/motorway then it’s not for you. If you want to see more when you’re riding and have an adventure, then these bikes are as good as you get.
Agree not the bike for long periods on motorways but perfect for everything else.
Good afternoon Ian, great early morning run avoiding the heat, enjoyed your thoughts on the future of 411, I agree it’s not about speed anymore, it’s reliability & enjoyment.. looking forward to where the inter 650 essentially goes in its next development stage as you work your magic.. cheers mate, Phil 🇦🇺
Keep watching Phil. You never know what I might come up with next 😂
I could probably count on one hand the amounts of cars on the road in that video, very nice. Bigger not required really, that's just a nice lolling pace, wouldn't mind a trip in Bulgaria, many years since i was there. Good video Ian 👍
Yes, exactly
Good video thanks. I have a 2020 Himalayan and love it, no intention to trade it in
Great bike
In the UK, the 450 starts at £5750 and runs up to £6300 if you want gold wheels and tubeless tyres. Brand New 411s can be had for about £4100 at the moment. That's less than a lot of new 125s. Absolute bargain.
No brainer at that price
We have 2 x 2021 411 Himalayans. One at 83000km the other at 79000 km. The more kilometers you do, the more the bikes like it. Consoles on both bikes replaced under warranty. Headset bearings done once on one bike, twice on the other bike. Stator & regulator replaced on one bike. Original clutches. Rebuilt one wheel after dropping into a deep sharp hole off road. No broken spokes.
We have just bought a slightly younger 2021 Himalayan with 3600km on the clock at a bargain price we couldn't refuse. Both the older bikes can keep up with the newer bike so compression has not suffered over 80000km.
Easy to work on, & a very forgiving bike to ride on or off road.
Australia
Great to hear from someone who has covered the km that you have on your bikes. Long may they continue.
I see it this way:- the 411 is a Royal Enfield. Old school tech, cable throttle, screw and locknut valve adjustment, long stroke engine, roller bearing crank... It's what we all expect. However the 452 with water cooling, ride by wire throttle, shim valve adjustment, shell bearing crank, short stroke motor, fancy dash, etc. seems to me they have designed a TRIUMPH.
Well said.
@@iantoy7778 and just another thought. Recent interviews with the designers of the new 452 at the UK ABR festival revealed that the design process has been ongoing for at least five years. So they were working on this new bike as long ago as 2019. And really we should remember that sales of the 411 were only just starting to take off at that point. A lot of customers were in the very early stages of falling in love with their 411s. It could well be that the design team commenced with a brief that required them to offer up a state of the art "new from the ground up" motorcycle because it was considered that this was bound to be what the market would be demanding in 2024. But in reality, over the last five years, many have grown to appreciate the 411 for what it is. A two wheel Land Rover. Those people may have preferred a 450 with long stroke engine, cable throttle, traditional clocks, roller bearing crank and 30 BHP? For £5300! But five years ago, nobody realized that a lot of people would possibly have preferred that? Just a thought.
Just watched your video re your heart attack and dark days Excellent m8 I'm glad you're feeling positive now I had a breakdown 9yrs ago and often struggle BUT you're absolutely correct riding your bike is a game changer obviously as long as you are safe to do so so THANKS for taking the time to make this video it's helped me and remember "Keep the Sticky Side Down" Cheers
Ride safe. Our bikes are better than any medication for making us feel good.
I'll have my brand new 2023 Himalayan, Mirage Silver by the end of this month- July 2024. I've been making payments since March. I will most likely have the panniers installed before I pick it up.
I am sure you will love it when you eventually get it.
I'll be keeping my 411 also. Don't like the looks of 450 Himalayan and when I saw video where you have to remove the gas tank to change the air filter that enough for me to not even test drive one. On discontinue of the 411, this is same company that dropped the bullet 500. They should have just upgraded the 411.
That would have been a good move. Unfortunately RE thought otherwise
The scram 411 is still available for now and what the little info i've manage to find is that the scram will not stop be produced for the Indian market. I am thinking about the bike, because don't need what the Himmy has, don't like the stock screen, don't need the front rack but it does look cool on the Himmy, that is for sure.
We had a look at a scram 411 in the shop in Sofia the other day. It looks good
I think the 411 is hear to stay. Think Mk1 Landy
Good comparison.
I believe you missed one important reason people love the 411, and that is the long stroke design. A Colombian mechanic friend has the RE 500 and the Himmy 411 and he said the thing he loves about the Himmy is the LS engine. He is 35 and for many young people it is the poor man's Harley. I thought of selling mine many times because of a terrible stalling problem. After trying all the recommended fixes I finally did what my Father did on his Harley, I replaced the cam and eliminated the mechanical decompressor. Upon inspection, the spring was doing nothing so it was just flopping around on the cam. No wonder it constantly stalled when near idle. Since doing the cam replacement, no more stalling. I also smile at the fact that my 411 feels like it has been hitting the gym. The Kent cam power is subtle due to the LS engine, but I noticed that the throttle response is snappier and I use much less throttle when accelerating. Of course I did the Fuel-x pro upgrade and the air filter upgrade as well. The bike is much more relaxed. I now love my 411 and would buy another if this one needed to be replaced. So will there be an ongoing market for this bike? I would say yes. I can see them bringing it back in the future with some needed improvements if the resale value remains strong.
I installed a TEC cam on mine and it made a world of difference along with the other mods that you mentioned. I agree it may well be brought back into production at some point with some modifications for emissions etc.
Mine is just fine. But my old hips are starting to complain a bit 😂
I have the same problem 😂
Love my ‘22 411 dearly, no matter how much headache it gave me over 8k kms, it never fails to make me grin while I ride. Bike’s got character, is simple to fix and can tractor on over the rough stuff easily. Ride it to office and back daily in traffic, no problems
Agree the bike has great character. It will go anywhere
You are partially to blame for my recent purchase of a 2016 Bullet 500 and now you have me looking at Himalayan 411. HA! My local dealer has 3.
Always loved the look of the 411 Himalayan and even though i have a few bikes and so called premium i knew i would have the 411 at some point... It was this channel and one other that made me make my decision to get one. After the 450 was announced the deals on the 411 were fantastic so i bought a new Euro5 Model at the start of this year and to be honest i cant keep off it there's something about this bike and engine it has charactor and charm a little gem. You get fed up of people buying them then winging about the power what do they expect and do they not research? Anyway i have covered over 8000 miles through winter here in the uk both on and off road you have to ride it with momentum no need to thrash it or go over 5000 revs its a sweet little motor and yes they have niggles but anyone buying one of these should know that already its part of the owning experience, the stock suspension is fine for normal use and still working fine for now that is but will upgrade if it breaks. Ive fitted a new battery a few weeks after purchase ive had to tweak the head bearings for now and the clutch groans and moans at times but i expect this and using Ians videos i will learn to fix these issues myself... no way will i get rid of it....its a keeper. As for the 450 i think RE were just trying to keep up with this fast going breed of low priced small engined ADV bikes but i don't think it will be as successful as the 411 where there's too much competition now i still think the 411 stands out for being basic and user friendly. I bought a brand new Bmw R1250 GSA in 2020 it arrived at my door and when i turned it on for the very first time i got a fault warning up on the TFT saying take the bike to the nearest dealer for repair😬I hadn't even sat on it and that cost £18k at the time not knocking the GS but just goes to show that high tech can be hit and miss. Anyone fancying a 411 just do the research so you know what you are getting into then ride and enjoy the experience.I have noticed that after 8000 miles the engine feels better it took a while to get that way so don't let higher mileage bikes put you off then you are open to some great bargains as most of these bike are not owned by thrashers usually the older end who take care of their stuff. Great channel this and like Ian says he is there for advice should we need him and I'm sure we will. Thumbs up all the way keep the 411 flag flying👍👍👍
Thanks . It's good to know I am appreciated. Always willing to help where I can.
Keeping mine! Just did ABR on stock tyres fine.
My 3k service soon then am doing myself. (Warranty ending)
I think there are many of us that will be keeping them. Nothing else like it on the market
@@iantoy7778 Roadwise even with luggage fine. A bit agricultural and noisy but did 2hrs at 75 on motorway fine, much nicer in the 60 zone.
At the ABR really got the impression the bike is more in its element. 3rd gear actually made sense😉
I have the same view as you regarding enfields decision not to leave the 411 exactly the same as it is now and just upgrade it. That's all anyone wanted.
They will regret their decision I am sure
Interesting video. I got the bike not because I’m an old guy that used to tinker on cars, I just happen to be. I have a Ducati for when I think I’m eighteen again 😜
Yes know the feeling. My mind and body often think differently😂
Keeping mine, any thing bigger in Malta is a waste of space! National speed limit 80kph, NO motorways, a few dual carriageways, and LOADS of back roads and lanes, I tend to do a mix on rides out. Cheers DINO.
Back roads and lanes are perfect for the Himmie
I heard that they had to go to water cooled on the 452 to be able to comply with the Euro 6 regs.
That is true but why didn't they put the engine in the 411 instead of trying to compete with everyone else. If they could have kept the price down to undercut the other manufacturers again people would be queuing up for the bike.
I bought the Himalayan specifically because it was a DIY basic bike. I'm sure the 450 is a fine product if you want a water cooled bike. I'm not particularly interested in it. I think they should have produced both models concurrently.
The 411 will always be the favourite
Hi Ian interesting comments from you there me old tater, with regard to age yes speed not worried been there, and like you many many miles, always fix me own gear just ask if stuck, mech engineering all my life even in the pram watching me dad fix his dbd34, I have thought many times to get a Himalayan (as well) they will go for ever, I have a bullet 350 and a hunter but a him I would look great next to em, like you 69, don’t drink, smoke ( never have) and don’t go out apart from in the morning with the wife for some shopping and a coffee, so same thought process as you take care mate thanks for info and now him I hunting
Ted NW biker dude
You will not regret buying one
The DR650 hasn't been sold in Europe for, oh, must be 20-odd years.
There are cheap new Enfields, of various models models, in the UK because RE is now the importer, and motogb, the previous importer, is clearing stock. Hence I bought a new Himalayan, for 4000 pounds on the road, to use as a winter hack and, possibly, to ride on some easy green lanes.
Perfect bike for green lanes. Showing my age talking about the DR650 lol
Keeping mine also 2020
Also 350 classic reborn 3months old also a keeper
❤. Them ❤them
It's amazing how many of us have more than one Royal Enfield in our garage. Once you have the first one you get the bug.
@iantoy7778 hi Ian I have one stray yamaha xt660z it's also a keeper
@@harleyd028 nothing wrong with one of those. They are good bikes
Reckon their underestimated never given any problems
Hi m8 just joined your channel I own a 2021 bs6 Himmy and would like to know what LED headlight have you fitted
Oh and keep up the good work Thanks
Thanks. I purchased the headlight off Ali Express. If I remember correctly it was about 30GBP. I have seen them on eBay and Amazon as well.
I just want to know if RE will still supply a brand new engine for it, when the time comes. My 2023 mod is a keeper, maybe down the track I will need a new engine, and I would prefer to have new instead of a recon. version. Did that back in the day with cars, never really successful, so yeah I would prefer new. > Not sure RE will keep on making new engines for them, like other companies make available for a few years after they discontinue a model, maybe they have already stopped. I have sent the parent company an email a month ago about this have not got a reply, so most likely they have stopped making them already. Probably maybe intend to stop making parts as well.
Will be interesting to see what happens
@@iantoy7778 I have a 2021 euro5 that I love and a £350 8000 mile Euro4 spare engine sitting in the garage to play with or fall back on if needed. My friend has a well-maintained 2018 Euro 4 used as his daily hack with close on 40000 miles that is still running like clockwork (but noisier).
Great video as always Ian. Have you considered buying and fitting a big bore kit or content with the 411cc? Cheers, Michael.
Thanks. I thought about fitting a big bore kit but decided against it. I will stick with the stock 411
Hey man. Great video. Question. Are the TEC Camshaft and valves for the Himalayan 411 good for everyday use (commute) and traveling long distance? what are your thoughts having installed and using them after a while?
Yes they are brilliant. The bike is dead smooth, no stalling and good in traffic. Touring is great no problem.
Hi Paul, I have two questions for you the first being in your opinion is the euro 4 better than the euro 5 model with respect to modifications to the engine etc to get the best out of it?
Second question what helmet was you wearing on the 411 ?
Kind Regards,
DCT Dave & Butty Bach 🙂
Hi Dave, The Euro 5 model is a bit more expensive on the electronic side. The ECU is actually part of the throttle body and not a separate item. Apart from that the mechanical side is the same on both the Euro 4 and 5 models.
My helmet is a MT helmet model called The Darkness. It is a bit noisy though.
Hope that helps
Cheers Ian
Sorry Ian I got you muddled up with another CZcamsr 🙄 age is my excuse 🤣 thank you for the info as I’m not mechanically minded and I really enjoy all of your videos mechanical/camping/garden and hopefully touring 👏🏻👌🏻
Cheers Dave
@@dctdave.buttybach Sue's planning the touring at the moment. A couple of trips into Romania very soon.
Cheers m8
You're welcome
I make you right on pretty much all you said here mate. I think RE have rather 'over egged the pudding' with the new 450 and lost sight a bit on what the Himalayan is all about. Keep it simple and air/oil cooled. They could have carried on with the 411 alongside the new bike but have instead chosen to chuck out the baby with the bath water. I love my 411 and here it will stay. RE aren't immune from this kind of mistake when they replaced the Classic 500 with the All New 'Plastic' 350 and the backlash in India kept the old 350 on sale for 3 more years before they introduced the new plastic one. You wouldn't think it by the glowing reviews the 350 gets though but I guess those CZcamsr's have been 'bought'. On the subject of the 500, I've fitted the Fuel X Lite kit and even on a first stationary start in my kitchen, the bike runs much smoother. I've put a short video up on my Facebook page. I'm easy to find and my page is open to the public if you're interested 🙂
I'll have a look at your video.
None of my bikes have a future. I hope my 411 lives to see 150'000km somewhere in 2026
That would be a good achievement
Does the comments about spares from India hold true if your in the UK?
I would have thought so. One of my English subscribers told me that they also buy from India and have not been caught out with extra costs. We use the Indian sellers on eBay.co.uk I can't guarantee if it would be the same if was not through eBay.
I dont like the looks of the new 450 the 411 is great looks wise to and they should have named the new One different I meanif you bought a 411 a 350 and you want more power than you bought the wrong bike to star whit I wil keep my himmi its runs great and is easy to work on the newer the bike the more you pay
Whats happening to the Scram, I wonder?
Time will tell
At the knockdown price new ones have been selling, the Scram is almost certainly on its way out. Shame really. I don't own a Himalayan or a Scram (Classic 350), but they seem like a connection to the old Royal Enfield world. My theory/guesswork is lack of Scram sales killed off the 411, and convinced RE the future is modern bikes.
It's a dinosaur zero future
Each to their own. It all depends what people want to ride. There are plenty who enjoy riding the 411 Himalayan.
You are missing the big picture, completely. The old Himalayan was Royal Enfields worst selling model by a long way, the home market ignored it, the US market ignored it, South America forget it and the big European markets weren't interested. I live in Germany and have never seen one ever, it doesn't suit the market and there is absolutely no nostalgia for old British bikes whatsover. I visited two old-timer meets last week and saw maybe a thousand classic bikes, not one was a British brand and in the car parks there were only three modern Triumphs.
I owned two RE's back in the 60's/70's (I'm that old) and actually test rode a 411 out of curiosity, no way would I consider buying one ever.
Each to their own
@@iantoy7778 To give you indication of the Himalayan's potential fate exports in December 2022 were 1531 units, in December 2023 it was 151.
@@jimtitt3571 I think you are missing the point ,there have been thousands and thousands sold, it's not always about how many 411 have sold this yer or last.
It's about the cult following the bike has. The 411 has gone past the early stage of people that first bought them for just the price then found them under powered,too slow and sold them on. It's about the owners that have bought them and love them for what they are . They are one of the bikes that have a niche market and following.
The new bread of 450s from all different manufacturers I don't see any of them that will have the same standing as the 411 Himalayan, all these new bike will be forgotten in two years as the latest models will come out and all the TFT screens, Rider modes ect are having problems, can't get the spares to fix the bikes and your average guy at home can't fix it them selves the basic 411 will still be relevant for the guys that want a basic bike that the average man can work on and still ride and enjoys.
It's not always about up to date sales that are here today and gone tomorrow.
@@iantoy7778Well it's two discussions mixed together, does the 411 have a future within the cult and does the 411 have a future in the market?
For the first it will probably go the way of them all after ten or twenty years, fading away until they need a total rebuild, put in boxes as the winter project which is never finished then finally dumped.
For RE it's done and dusted, the 350 platform is their breadwinner (they sell thirty times as many as the 411 platform) and is next in line for an update as the pressure comes from the competition, they are a mass-market producer not a boutique brand.
@@jimtitt3571 You obviously don't ride a 411 so it's not a problem for you. Have a good day