How To Improve Your Mid Game Macro | Broken by Concept Episode 139 | League of Legends Podcast
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2024
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Curtis' Coaching Program Link : midlaneacademy.com/join-now/
Nathan's Coaching Program Link : saltu.gg/pricing/
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Twitter: / coachcurtislol
Twitter: / nathanimott
00:00 - 02:55 // Intro + What We Are Covering Today
02:55 - 17:35 // Improving Mid Game Clip + Discussion About Mid Game
17:35 - 21:50 // How To Review Mid Game Situations
21:50 - 30:50 // Example Of Poor Mid Game Decision Making
30:50 - 32:50 // KDA Doesn’t Tell The Entire Story
32:50 - 37:00 // Ray Dalio Collecting Gems IRL Philosophy
37:00 - 58:10 // Matt/Moon Cultist MOTIVATIONAL Story + Breakdown
58:10 - 01:09:20 // SummonerSchool Post - How To Not Have A Massive CS Difference When Countered
01:09:20 - 01:15:10 // Nathan’s Mailbag - InfinitySoul - Why Are Off Meta Champs Capped?
01:15:10 - 01:22:30 // Nathan’s Mailbag - Benasty - Identity Crisis
01:22:30 - 01:29:10 // Nathan’s Mailbag - Aron - Secondary Role Conundrum - Hry
Nathan that isn't midgame macro, thats a Pyramid scheme...
That’ll be $350
@@eucas7403no but you see you basically get it back because then you find 2 further employees that’ll pay in 350 each and you’ll get to keep half of each of their pay ins, so you’res is basically free after you find the first two employees to add.
35:50 This is why this podcast is so good, Curtis is brutally honest and Nathan a humble guy who accepts critics. We can learn so much from them on how to be a better person :)
I actually consider myself a not talented player, but I am able to reach Diamond+ simply because of a superior mindset and attitude.
You should do "Climbing Clips" which could be really smart clips of players doing something that may lead them to win the game. For example, deciding to ignore a team fight to take a tower and showing how that impacts the game or something like that
I like the sound of climbing clips because it sounds like climbing tips, which both are supposed to help us in our journey in league
I do have some of them in gold - platin elo
I like Curtis' Clips the most! You still both answer like in "Nathans" mailbag.
My alternative suggestions would be
- Broken by Clips
- Clip Review Corner
- Curtin and Nathan's Clip Critique
- or only "Clip Critique"
Also, please bring on Coach Cupcake more often!
I like Clip Review Corner! My suggestion would be Concepts in Clips
Hey Curtis and Nathan, I just wanted to post and say how valuable this content has been for me. Just found this channel about a month ago and have been listening to the pod religiously since. At the beginning of last month I was hardstuck gold 2, but after implementing the 3 block schedule and reviewing after each block, I have climbed to Diamond for the first time in my life! And did it in less than 70 games. You guys are unreal, thank you for the inspiration!
As a ADC main my perspective is when 1 or both bot lanes rotate OUT of bot lane. Sometimes mid game can occur very early if one bot lane is able to gain lane control and swap with thier mid to rotate up to get herald to break mid or bot.
I've been playing Malph Top 2ndary it's pretty good for playing weak side and minimizing so far in Mid Plat/Low Dia
Great ult for team fights and the gameplay/build paths are pretty simple. Throw Q for peel and identify high priority R targets whether it's peeling for your fed Jinx or waiting for the fed Yi to Q so your team can mob him.
Main things I've learnt in just reviews was just to stop building troll AP items and tear since the AP falls off in mid game while either having a neutral or net negative impact in lane compared to tank items. And even in the lanes where it nets an advantage like against Sett who has no range to get onto you for spamming Qs in his face, you're just delaying mid game power spikes and are more likely to lose key skirmishes and team fights from not being tanky enough.
I love the discussion about the complexities of the “score line” and how being 0/0/0 at 12 minutes can be good or bad depending on how the rest of the game is going. You guys do a great job of really exposing the nuances of the game!
LETS GOOOO NATHAN HYPE!! CURTIS THE GOAT!!! DETAILS. CURIOUS. PROCESS. TIME. PATIENCE. ASCEND!!!!!!
I like "Getting into the Details". Its a bit wordy for a segment name, but it perfectly represents what you're doing while also echoing one of the most impactful BBC Mantras.
maybe just "The Details"
“Clips con Curtis” - con means ‘with’ in Spanish, so clips with Curtis if you are trying to keep the alliteration
I ConCur(tis) with you
Curtis' Community Clips?
this is revolutionary lol. So much information and serious tone. This is for people who really want to get better
As a primarily audio listener, I don't mind the clips that need the visual. However, I'd LOVE if you'd add the bookmarks to the podcast version, so I can easily know which parts are visual and which can be just audio. I typically come back to youtube to revisit the clips section later.
Majgad... the last episode and and this one is NEXT LVL! I feel like I can really understand the gameplay through theese clips when you show things from diff perspectives. When you show them in this format its easier to understand the details concept. Keep em coming guys! And the story you were telling Curtis is really good aswell. In 5 years You guys will be huge in the league community and I feel like you are making the game a better experience for ppl. Keep it up guys! 💙🙏
And btw youre doing a really good job explaining everything while talking about the clips, specially this episode, I dont rly need to see it on youtube I can totally picture it 😎🔥
I think i will learn much more with you reviewing MORE vods, because we can tangible see why you think something is good or not and you explaining why, is so usefull, thanks for the good value tho :)
Clips were great in the last episode. Hope to see more of them.
Thank you for clarifying things to listeners on spotify
Most educational league content on CZcams are the two of you
Really happy to be here again, for all the wrong reasons lol but learned a lot
"The Breakdown" seems like a good place to start with the naming. It's not crazy specific but its at least uses the Broken by Concept and makes it a positive Break yet again!
"Breakdown Bonanza"? "Breakdown Busters"?
"COACH'S CLIP CLINIC"? CCC in the BBC? (Could be "Coach's Clip Corner" too)
The Coach part let's Curtis have his name in one of the segments, but it's not like he's saying the clips are HIS, just that its his corner! :D Also it's politely including Nathan as he's a coach too! Booyah
It would be a really good idea if you both had a fresh clip or something to that effect that the other person HASNT seen yet so it can be fresh for one of you. This dynamic would help viewers catch on and make their judgements, as questions are being asked from a professional... and one of you guys will review the CLIP on the spot to see what's wrong... hence the Clip Clinic which I like the best so far. XD Just thinking out loud for you guys.
An ideal series in my mind would be a video series where you two and maybe more (e.g. Cupcake) break down plays as you did in the first segment. Truly amazing analysis. As always, great content and gray philosophies that I wish more League players would adopt.
I think you've been doing this anyway, but still something I'd like to see continue: Clips at the beginning, the rest just talking. Better for someone like me who mostly listens via Podcast Apps.
Love your work, thank you for all the effort y'all put into this.
I started watching an anime called Blue Lock about 2 months ago and I really like it. It's about football (or soccer) and at first I thought it was a generic sports anime. But in the first episode it set it self apart from every other sports anime, the more I watched the more great analogy's I found to league. It's sounds weird but there are many things you can translate over to League as example the mindset. I can only recommend it, it's extremely fun to watch from start to finish. The anime single handedly changed how I see League, I improved a lot by just taking what was in the anime and translating it into the game (mostly mindset). I don't know how much time you guys have for watching shows but if you have the time I would love to hear what you think of it, because I think it could be a great motivation for people who struggle in League, like it was for me.
Hey guys, I just want to add to the Jungle secondary discussion. Since the recent matchmaking changes where riot aims to match your role with a person that is also filled, I find myself playing jungle secondary vs jungle secondary. This makes the situation much more fair, and I never feel like I’m outclassed in my secondary role. Just this season alone, I managed to get 60+ LP on my secondary role which I’m fairly happy about. The other day I qued up jungle first just out of curiousity and I got rolled 0-3 and I realized I clearly am not used to the role and I find it hard to not get lost. I play towards the upcoming objective and I can sort out what a good and a bad gank is, but my knowledge stops at this point. Most of the time I snowball but if I’m behind it’s a 80% chance I lose the game. This is the reason I developed a bad habit of constantly ganking early game and falling behind farm. But still, when I get filled it kinda works in low elo. So as secondary I have success with it but if I que up primary I’m destroyed most of the time.
I would call it "a bite sized review" just because I like how Curtis says review with the aussie accent lol
Whoops! First episode since I came back to USA from South Korea. Came back earlier today.
P.S I do like Curtis clips so how about you go with
:Curtis's clip review!
About getting your secondary roles this is very true. If I queue for main role - jungle I can get a match in 1~2 minutes but for support (which more popular) sometimes it can take 10 minutes.
Considering "Coach's Corner" cause "Curtis's Clips" constitutes catastrophic confusion concerning comprehensive content.
Coach's Corner is nice!
I really love your content. Do you offer any coaching options for roles other than jungle and mid? I would love to get some insights from you about my gameplay. I have been struggling in high plat for many years now and can't seem to be able to make the jump to diamond on my own.
Hey guys I have a question, I once asked a coach if i should review every loss before going next, and he told me somebody my elo (p4) should never review their own game, theres no value in it. Im kinda picking up that you disagree with that answer. How do you feel about reviewing every loss immediately?
The pod is good guys keep it up!! People need to sub who are not!! Start the video with viewers who are subbed and not and set a goal boys!
Critical Clips & Tips
1:13:20
Something I'd like to add is that all champs have various strengths and weaknesses designed for the role. For example akali doesn't have great waveclear and isn't great at hitting tower, however she has strong kill-threat and amazing mobility/peel.
An off-meta pick means that their net strengths and weaknesses add up to less than that of an on-meta pick. This means that for them to be viable, they can't be a Jack of all trades, otherwise all the branches of their skill-tree would just be shorter than their on-meta counterparts and they would have no win-condition in most matchups.
This leads to them needing to overindex on 1 or a few strengths. This leads to them being 1 dimensional and good players know how to play around 1 dimension.
For example, when his numbers are good, Azir is high in the meta because there are so many different ways you can play him. He's probably the king of jack of all trades. Even pro players aren't able to completely play around his weaknesses because there are fewer.
Compare this to your example of Tristana mid. If you die in the first 5 minutes of the game, she wins, if you don't, 9/10 times your comp scales better and you win even if you give her 3 plates and go down cs. Don't forget this is one of the better off-meta picks.
These picks are often good counterpicks because they usually have 1 absurdly long branch in their skill tree and this does 1 of 2 things.
1. Their opponent is also 1 dimensional in the same skill, however their entire win-con/identity disappears because their opponent is better at it (think Ryze vs. Malzahar, waveclear).
2. The skill they overindex on is a massive chink in their opponents armor (Think panth/renek vs. kat).
It's interesting you recommend safe top laners but scaling junglers for secondary role. But it makes sense. Mages in the jungle are Karthus and Taliyah, Zyra apparently works as well, and if you squint really hard maybe you can include Lillia, Maokai, Fiddlesticks.
The more I listen to you guys and the more I think about how maths is teached in school.
Some teachers in some schools just teach the formula.
If you got this equation with these variables, you just execute this formula. Period.
The problem with this mindset is that when the formulas become 100, you might get confused; especially when there are very similar cases.
Other teachers will teach you what's BEHIND the formula, the graphic stuff and maybe some irl cases; so that when you get a problem, if you think about it deeply you just craft your own formula, your own equation.
League is something like that.
If you watch skillcapped/mobalytics etc videos you are facing the first type of teacher and when all the variables aren't aligned in the same way as in the example, you make mistakes and you don't understand why.
But if you are willing to spend more time to understand how the various variables of the game might mix up, you can get your own solution every time; and after you do this process 1000, 2000 times with consistency, you get challenger rank.
Love the idea of analyzing more clips. How about "Details Deep Dive" for the alliteration?
its amazing how curtis come to the same conclusion as nathan , and really fast just by looking
God I love this podcast so much
Love the podcast! However i believe meta refers to the “meta” game or the game within the game of what to buy/play/build but that saying is very helpful to explain to people
Is there a video explaining how to do a 3 block
Details deep dive. Let's get right in to it.
Coach curtis' cinema for the clip segment!
37:10 that was a beautiful segue
1:15:10 All in all I think it's important to experiment. If they feel that Support isn't as fun as other roles potentially. Nothing should stop the person from trying out other roles. I personally played toplane only for years, had some success with it and enjoyed the role. but at some point I felt I wanted to learn other roles as well. What usually made me want to play X role was because of a champion.
I'd pick up jungle only cuz I wanted to play Udyr and Shaco. then I'd stick with it for a Month or two then I moved over to playing Mid because I wanted to play Ziggs and Zed, in the end of these experiments I went back to toplane because I enjoyed playing Shen, Renekton, Swain, Kled etc.
After playing the other roles and being back into the comfort of playing my main role at the time I got a better understanding of the game. and saw the game in a different way. Which made me really like what the Support role was doing. Not to say that I disliked Toplane. But it wasn't actually as fun as Support seemed to me. So I gave it an attempt
Ended up trying it out a bit with Engage supports in the beginning. And trying out more mages/enchanters and figured ''Oh this is way more suited to my playstyle and what role I'd like to have in a game''
Really fell in love with some of the Support champions. I enjoyed the aspects of helping other lanes by roaming and setting up kills or protecting a teammate from damage or giving them damage. Also the element of having more Ward control on the map felt great. Don't really play any engage champions because after years of figuring out what I enjoy Mages and Enchanters is what I enjoy to play the most.
So my take is that the person might not know what they want just yet. idk how long they've played but should not rush their goals and should rather try and figure out what the roles means as an Identity, which can also differ between champions (enchanters - engagers / Mages - Assasins / bruisers - Tanks). Took me many seasons to actually know what I enjoyed, and I look at that as another aspect of the journey.
Important to find a champion or champion style you enjoy and stick with it cuz that will make the climb and the overall learning aspect easier and go more smoothly :)
The Detailed Dive!
I don't know if you ever got my email, but again, thanks so much for this content, I've completely changed my mindset because of it. STill struggling with making myself review games, getting there^^
Hello Coaches, I had to comment here because I had the same issue than they mid/support guy.
I am a mid/adc silver 3 right now. And I have a lot of bot games, after two days of 3 bot games bloc, I had enough. I tried this :
queue Mid top. Insta dodge when I tag top. Then proceed for the rest of the day as mid bot.
It's not been that long since I started using it, so you should try it yourself.
also thank you for answering my question.
Heeeeya = here 🤣 love the vids y’all
I’m new here and I have a couple questions. I was wondering is there a video where you guys go more in depth on the 3 block concept? Also what is the “MLA” you guys are referencing?
Midlane Academy
For Aaron’s questions about champs to play in jungle or support, since he plays Akali, I think Kha’Zix jungle might be a good option for him. He has similar play style as an assassin who likes picks rather than split pushing to take towers. I also main akali and have a played a lot of Kha’Zix in the past too.
As a former kha otp I wouldn't recommend this champ to anyone... But maybe that's just my hatred towards the champion
Coach curtis’ clip corner?
I think two contrasting clips to show two dramatically diff real outcomes is better than one random clip and its potential differing outcomes.
I'm ashamed to say my problem is exactly what you guys described. I often don't know my role in the game and just autopilot out of ignorance. Also when I don't know what to do or if I'm doubtful about a play I resort to an incredibly passive state. I'm playing ADC so it's easy to "get away" with such bad habbits but it has caught up to me and this is a brick wall I need to push through.
I didn't make any of these, just compiling some of my favorites i've seen from the comments- clip cririque, concepts in clips, climbing clips, "the details," caoch's clip clinic, coach curits' cinema, and clip clarity
Im a talon and diana 2 trick, i play both mid and jungle with them.
Any plans for pulling in a Top Laner? Love your work keep it up.
I think the clips should be examples of why getting into the details is important. And what the narrative could be and what the reality is.
Tons of gems 🤣
I dont think that its because mid is super popular i think its because everyone does top - mid or adc - mid or sup - mid or jungle -mid you will always get your role so that means mid gets put on offrole more than anyone else.
Also Curtis you need to learn to let Nathan finish his sentences you always cut him off it's kind of annoying in the kindest way possible haha. For Example 14:53 and 17:19 probably more.
I'm pretty sure you don't need any wave management besides "push before leaving" to reach gold. That's an overkill. Champ mastery is enough
Can we submit questions with clips to your email? Won't spam it, just from time to time, obviously.
Clip Clarity? Crisis Clips?
Detail Dive might be a decent little alliteration.
finnaly this is what I need midgame is my only problem and I play earlygame perfectly 🤨🤨
Team Nathan
BIG shoutout to Matt, LOVE to see the results you have 🙌
For mage players looking to jungle: Elise.
"Curtis does Dallas."
"Curtis finally has the gag removed."
"Curtis is a girls name"
... the list goes on.
I thought that was abbedagge on the thumbnail lol Nathandagge
You guys should invest in mic stands or overhead shotgun boom mics? i know your arm is going to sleep haha
This is not the "mid" video i was looking for
I would make it even simpler if u are fed you need to know where the next fight is gonna be imo thats the main thing u need to know
so many games I have seen lost cause the fed member was in sidelane on the complete opposite of the map where the fight happens
like if you are fed and everyone else is not all you need to do is be present in the fights and u win automatically
so many times I've seen people fed as hell going out of the laning phase and just chilling in sidelane on the complete opposite of the objective or where the next fight happens
Team nathan
"Clips from Curtis" avoids having to say "Curtis'"
Wow!
Nate is talented
Curtis Concepts
I can identify why I win/lose fights, it hurts when I see why!!!
1:15:14
I sensed a lot of 80/20 rule in his comment.
basketball? wasnt that wayne gretzky 🤣❤
curtis clip critique
Broken by clips?
Call it the review diff.
Come on guys.... CURTIS' CLIP CORNER
Mr. Nathan Mott pls bring YFJC!! I'm struggling rn and need the brain juices of your show
Assuming the purpose of the clips is to teach a concept in each podcast, Climbing Concept Coaching Clips or Climbing Concept Clips.
Maybe "Narrative Crushing Clips" if they're for refuting people's narratives.
Also, sounds to me like Benasty could work on his roam timers and help impact top lane so that his top lane isn't getting destroyed. If he switches to top lane he's going to be complaining about his bot lane losing b/c his filled supports are bad lol. The reason he's not enjoying support is because he feels like he doesn't have enough impact on the game...and he doesn't have enough impact because he's doing something wrong. This happens no matter what role you play until you change your perspective.
“Chronobreak”
damn kai'sa slipped 11:00
For benasty's identity crisis, I'm team nathan. No clear bias what so ever. Anyway commit to support and join the SoS there's no Top Lane Academy :)
What about "Concept Clips"? Ties into the brand name, plus you are likely picking a clip to discuss a specific "concept".
you miss 100 percent of the shots you dont take - Wayne Gretzky... my favorite basketball player!
Good to see Masters+ players still int to defend towers 1v3.. I think you're a bit off on 'meta', not all meta known and with constant changes things are missed. Jhin mid, for all we know COULD be meta, it doesn't seem likely, but then neither did Taric or Lucian jungle, both of which made Challenger on NA..
Talent is overrated hardwork trumps it in SoloQ!!!
How about "clip of the week"
Simple
I've got a two and a half hour drive in a bit and this isn't downloadable as a podcast yet. Get it together! In the words of Koala Man: 'This is not on.'
It just became available and my commute will be significantly more bearable. My apologies.
Imma ask for a different name for fans than "BBCers"
#TeamNathan I think they're on copium and should stick to Support if they enjoy the role. Just accept that you're losing 3 waves under a T3 and look to what you CAN do to influence the game from that position (or to avoid the situation happening)
Gold and especially exp on Supports isn't even useless if you're playing certain Supports either. Enchanters are great with levels and Mages/Assassins like Pyke or Pantheon definitely appreciate free gold if you're team's busying dying 1v4 around Dragon Pit.
if you go through eagz recent videos, he's literally descrediting and recommending you don't want any content by coach curtis XD (meanwhilst eagz is a dogshit OCE one trick player)
35:50 I respect Curtis but I fully disagree with this. IMO being in the top 0.001% of players aka challenger definitely means you’re not just talented but one of the best talented players on the server. You don’t need to have a cocky personality to be called talented. I know people who played since season1 and probably as much as Nathan and they’re still in silver/plat elo, which isn’t even near Nathan’s level of play when he was playing 10 years ago, let alone now. I feel like when friends (Curtis and Nathan) know each other for a long time they often don’t expect much from each other anymore, so they think that other people have more than their friends do. Just my own opinion.
Did these people take the game seriously and have they been working on improvement for years, years and years? I very much doubt it...
@@azhus9307 Not everyone is going to get challenger if they grind hard every year and focus on improvement, in fact most people won’t. There’s a reason it’s only 0.001% out of 30 million players. There’s no way you’re going to make the argument that everyone can get challenger if they work hard for it.
@@kabloom6776the issue is that no one else actually spends the hard work to even get close, if you are still in silver after a decade that's a you issue and has nothing to do with talent
@@bullettime1116 “that’s a you issue” is something you have to say to probably more than 50% of rankef players. You clearly haven’t played enough ranked to see that 90% of the player-base who also have 1m+ mastery points with champions are still in bronze-gold. You guys legit arguing that everyone can get challenger if he just plays enough? That’s just not true.
@@kabloom6776 I broke out of gold and am now in Plat(now emerald) consistently after being stuck in gold for 2 years due to not sticking to one or two champs and playing multiple roles. Those people have a fundamental issue with how they play the game if they are still stuck in pisslow with a million points in their champ, and they aren't actually gaining any real champion mastery and are just spamming games with no thought or process, getting out of pisslow is incredibly easy if you just learn from your mistakes and learn the very basic fundamentals of the game. If you can't do that then that is a you issue and not a talent issue, unless your issue is related to brain trauma or disorders in which case you are just unlucky
Getting Challenger on OCE is literally like barely getting diamond on NA lol. These two are clowns. OCE is SOOO easy
Ive heard its atleast 2 divisions difference
Keep coping buddy
Copium