I was wrong about Beretta…
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- I have been vocal about the Steelium range from Beretta in the past, and have accused it of being a marketing ploy. Beretta invited me out to the factory to show me the science behind the barrels, and to prove to me that these things are actually worth looking at!
We also got to shoot with Zach Keinbaum and Anthony Matarese Jr, to see if they think these barrels actually contribute to their various titles.
Enjoy!
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Fantastic review. Skepticism is relevant, but facts are incontrovertible.
Shooting a 686 next to a DT11 has always been a bang vs thump feeling for me. The 686 shoots like I'd expect out of a Beretta O/U; perfectly pleasant and timeless. Shooting a DT11 always feels different than I expect , with a shooing impulse that sounds to my ear more "thhhhomp" than "crack". And on the DT11 I'll break targets I was sure I'd missed, and then targets I hit just disappear into dust rather than shatter. It's really annoying because I cant quite afford one right now, and every time I shoot it I have to repeat "I don't need it, I don't need it" .
Absolutely fantastic 37 odd minutes of my Monday night! The working of the barrels and the explanation of forcing cones and chromium plating with the new developments was excellent. Camera work as usual was fantastic and the whole presentation was noteworthy. Never missed a beat and was fascinated by the work done by the R&D guys. Made my Monday! Cheers Peeps!!!
Ok. So when are you going to take us to the Krieghoff factory ??
👀
And the Miroku factory?
@@hunt4redoctober628 +1 on the Miroku Factory
I’ll watch both 10 times
I want to get a krieg barrel for a PSA PA10 😅 ...the barrel would cost more than the entire rifle 😅
Johnny, I must say - I always enjoyed your review videos of the past several years from the gun shop, and I was a bit skeptical when you said you were headed in a different direction. You’re just killing it now - absolutely one of my favorite CZcams destinations and a must-see for the shooting sportsman. Well done, sir.
Fantastic video Johnny! I really enjoy this kind of content. Super cool that you got to hang with two of the world’s best clay shooters also, both humble guys.
My 694 shoots so soft in any side by side comparisons with my shooting buddies guns. LOVE Beretta!!
Every time you take us too one of these manufactures, who take the time to explain the art in great detail, I gain a greater appreciation for these fine pieces of art themselves. Thank you.
Great job Jonnie! Well researched and great content to support it. Not to mention you got to hang with two world class shooters and get their personal feedback. Thanks again for you hard work putting these videos together.
Thankyou, it was a pretty wild ride getting to see all of this and then to hang out out with those two for the morning was the icing on the cake.
LOVE my 694 and have been toying around with the idea to get a DT11. This finally pushed me over the edge, guess I better start saving…
Fantastic how dedicated Beretta are to develop such great products for hunters and shooters. .
I have DT 11 Black Non-Carbon and a A400 Black. Both are exceptional guns. I can tell a huge difference between the two especially when shooting 200 or more rounds. The A400 is lighter coming in at 7.932 lbs and the DT comes on at 8.545 lbs. I'm shooting 80% after 6 months of owning the DT11. It was worth the investment in my opinion. Thanks for the content and hope to see you at one of the East Coast shoots next year. The Gator Cup is one I would highly recommend.
As a 686 Sporting shotgun owner I think Beretta should launch a 686 version without engraving and with a rust resistant coating on the whole gun. I live near the sea and the shotgun gets rusty too easily. I need to oil it everytime.
Absolutely brilliant videos, always good but getting better each time. Thank you sir!
Superb video! Thank you for the time and effort to produce such fine work.
PVD is great tech, but it's an inadequate replacement for bore chroming. This is a horribly stupid regulation.
Absolutely, it's the same process used to "gold" the surface of drill bits. (It's titanium nitride and not gold) But how long does a titanium nitride coated drill bit maintain its coating? Probably for about 3 uses before it's wearing off depending on what you're drilling and if you have the right feeds and speeds etc. Certainly not suitable for the inside of a shotgun barrel. But this plasma pvd might work a bit differently, essentially welding the coating into the material.
I suppose the proof is in the pudding
So well done! Great video! Embarrassed to say how many Berettas I own , but my SO3 is my crown jewel
The diminishing returns here are way understated - if your gun is correctly fitted you basically top out at around the 2-3k price range until you're shooting 23-25 EVERY round. Then that extra little bit the next 5-30k makes might make up the difference enough to have you winning championships, but until you're at that level the only way to get better enough that it makes a difference is training.
Where's the side by side measurement comparison of absolutely identical configurations? @ProjectFarm needs to answer!
Seems perfect but my new 687 SP now sold. Wouldn’t eject. Went back to beretta and 2 different gunsmiths. Tried new carts, springs ejectors…something must not have been shaped right.
Superb…extremely interesting and very professional. Well done.
Beretta makes some outstanding, top tier shotguns; I wish they would take their U.S. based customer service more serious.
Very interesting video. Thanks Jonny. Keep them up.
That was really, really good-professional production and excellent content.
Well I have been a Browning man all my life but after watching this my next gun will be a Beretta DT11, another great piece of work Johnny and Sash. All the best.
The thing about DLC, though, is it wears off. It's not as strong as chrome. It's been used for a long time already on other firearms here in the USA, like custom 700-pattern bolt-actions. But most have moved away from it in favor of nitride. PVD such as DLC is also a line-of-sight process. The vapor needs to be able to access the area being coated. It's not like dipping a part into a liquid bath that fills every crevice and cavity. So getting an even coverage is more difficult. Companies like IonBond here in the USA have pioneered this process.
Jonny, join the DT club! Or please do join the SL club so I can try before I buy next time I see you ;)
World class content and really satiated my engineering inner geek. Thanks to you and Beretta for the content! 🙏🏻
It would be great to see high speed video for shot pattern for several high end guns. I can’t help but wonder what the titanium Longthorne looks like compared to the DT11, especially since manufacture of the Beretta barrel will be changing.
If we had the money to make that set up, it would be amazing!
The beretta barrel is changing?
Just brilliant. Loved every minute.
All of the technologies described as far as the company allows was great.
Near the end the scene was simply a young man and a young lady. Still discussing the DT-11 but with the wind blowing in their hair, the little smiles given when eyes meet and watching the blurred out trees swaying together as a background. A handsome guy and a beautiful young lady with a fetching smile and undeniably voluptuousness.
Many a day out shooting on our land, my fiancé and I would finish off that outing in the most natural way.
Absolutely fascinating stuff. I knew barrel design and manufacture wasn't simple but this is next level.
A fantastic video! Really interesting stuff Johnnie. Love these type of films.
brilliant video. I learned a lot. I had a 687 but might have to buy something higher end!
Yet another great video Jonny enjoyed every minute of it, All the millions Beretta spend on R&D it makes you wonder if any other manufacturer can compete with them.
Once you’ve seen this place, it’s hard to get your mind off berettas dedication to improvement for sure
Really interesting film, can only imagine how much more it was actually being there and seeing first hand what goes on. Excellent work as usual from you and your team.
Glad you enjoyed it, this was a real eye opener for us.
Love this channel, and it keeps getting better and better.
Great video! Thank you.
This video made me very proud to be a beretta shotgun owner
Working in mech eng, FEA analysis has become the new “Graduate with 10yrs experience”, powerful tool but there are definitely barriers to the next level of design.
I have a Silver Pigeon for 20 years or so, still love the gun ...
my dad used to do that fancy vapor deposition on cutting tools for work. He let me see the machine operating and it was the coolest to see glowing plasma.
I would loved if you did this for the Beretta ARX 160. I know it's not your primary content. But still, would be nice!
That was such a cool and informative film thought I was on discovery channel for a second . Man am I pineing for a dt11 or what. ❤
Yet another Awesome video! Thanks for sharing!
Glad you enjoyed it
Top quality content as ever, thank you
Nice to know whenever I upgrade from 686 SP 1 it will be worth spending [a lot] more on a DT11!
This is why I’m a Beretta fanboy. Still pissed that the U.S. Army went with Sig as the new sidearm. Still love my M9A1.
Hard not to respect this attention to detail
@@tgsoutdoors you got that right, brother!
Why are Baretta barrels so tight. I have a franchi affinity 3 and they use baretta/Benelli mobil barrels and my barrel measure .723 in 12 gauge.
It's not just Beretta . Many European shotgun manufacturers have traditionally had tighter bores than what would be considered the standard of .729 for 12 gauge. It's a design philosophy many of them have/had. My Superposed guns , Perazzi, Rizzini, and Ugartechea are all stamped 18.3 to 18.5 mm depending on the particular gun. I remember hearing that it may be a holdover from when shotshells were running fiber wads.
I absolutely love these videos top quality boys .your at the top of your game. Thanks for sharing👌👏
Thankyou mate, you don’t get the opportunity to look behind the scenes with a relatively open book policy that often, so best to make the most of it!
I'd love to have a DT11. But until I have the time to get into shooting to a much higher level of commitment which sadly I don't see on the horizon. Until then, the A400 will continue to be the workhorse. Maybe a compromise. The super duper barrel tech for the A400?
I always enjoy the wonderful content TGS has to offer. Keep it coming my friend. 👍👍
An a400 with pro barrels would be a machine and a half!
Have the forcing cone lengthened, there are gun smiths who do it.
Nice to see thriving innovation and manufacturing..
Myth busted! I too have always thought Steelium Pro was a marketing ploy. Mainly because many gun room sales people say it is all marketing. This video should be played at all Beretta shops. Lovely furniture on the DT's too. I assume those were upgraded examples.
I believe they were both greenwood custom stocks, which were very smart.
You are right, and I was one of those gunroom sales people 😂
Way to go an thank you
The quality of your videos has really improved
I have no doubt that Beretta shotguns are great. But on my budget I will stick with my Stoeger, Winchester, and Remington. They take down the game I hunt. The 97 Winchester is so smooth too.
GREAT VID MT, HIGHLY INTERESTING, RE THE DT11 BARRELS.
this was a big eye opener for me. thanks for this
Grazie a te
Well done Jon another great video 😊😊
I just love these videos. I will never be able to afford a DT model. I have a semi auto A400 Upland which I love, but I need an O/U. Maybe one day!
I suppose the question is "if you've got to put a blank in the forcing cone machine, why not put the longer cone in all barrels if it's demonstrably better ?" Informative, interesting and beautifully presented; again.
My guess is that they probably can't run the hammer forging process quite as fast for the longer forcing cone barrels so it's a cost as well as marketing thing.
I'm sure you're right; in the real world it's spend more to get more, and nothing wrong with that except I'll have my 'short cone' a little longer 👍🏾@@parrisgeorge9708
@@parrisgeorge9708 Yeah that sounds about right. The main reason is probably a speed of manufacturing issue. And so they get marketing to spin it as a premium feature for their higher-end guns so they can differentiate more and avoid cannibalizing sales.
And a degree of upselling, persuading you to part with more money for a more expensive (higher profit margin) product.
@@jonathanhicks140 Makes sense
Many barrel manufacturers have quit using chrome plating because the thickness changes so it messes with accuracy but that’s more important for rifles. Criterion has a secret chrome plating technique that creates an uniform
Great video Jonny 👍
I’m not sure how easily you can get a hold of one of those high speed cameras for a weekend, but I’d love to see a sinilar test comparison between cartridges, what the shot cloud looks like between them, what changing the chokes does to said shot cloud etc.
I have several Berettas and they never compromised on quality...great firearms..
I have always liked Beretta and had one or two over the years. My go-to gun which I shoot every week of the year is a 21 year old Browning Ultra XTR. I love it and cannot imagine ever getting rid of it. I would like to try a DT11 for a week or two and then see if I can justify the cost but am just not sure if I would improve with a gun like a DT11. Does the price make me a better shooter? Probably not.
As usual a superb film with some very interesting facts,
Thanks for the content you share with us,
Keep up the great work 👍👍
Great video as always!
Always is .
When anyone tells me their smooth round hole is the best I'm also 50% curious and 50% skeptical
Very good content Jonny.
Both involve wine! Hilarious and great video as always.
Yes. Laugh out loud moments, balanced views. Excellent knowledge and fascinating facts. Thank you.
When you are going to visit IJ-Baikal factory in Izhevsk.
Ya know, odd as it is the Remington Spartan combo gun which I bought on impulse at a pawn shop is one of my favorite guns. I regularly grab it when grouse hunting here in Idaho because I will have a 30-06 barrel in case a wolf or coyote happens along. A Baikal tour would be fun.
Well I had a DT10 which I thought was pretty good, but now shoot with either a 1966 SO2 or a 1995 SO4.
hi John do you know if there much difference in velocity when you tested patterns and recoil between the
silver pigeon
694 steelium plus
and DT11 steelium pro barrels
great video l love my DT11 ACS but always wonder if the trade off with long forcing cones reduced recoil anda loss in velocity
I have a DT10EELL very good well built gun, for me it’s really a game gun, it recoils very little with heavy cartridges, it’s a thud recoil as opposed to my 686 field instructing gun that’s more sharp, not harsh, just different.
I'm so confused. I bought two berettas but as I listen to your Chanel then David at TSC and Loyd Pattison then it was obvious to anybody who knew anything about shotguns I had to buy a Miroku. So I bought a Mk70. Now I'm wondering if I should sell all my shotguns and buy a beretta with a steelium barrel. This is so confusing.
😂 😂
@@tgsoutdoors Miroku Grade 5
Cold hammer forgoing is something the Americans refuse to do. This is why you only by from quality manufacturers like Beretta. My 682 Gold “E” convinced me that Beretta is simply the best so I bought my DT11 “Black” Sporting. Most beautiful gun that I’ve seen. I hope to visit this factory myself.
Remington has been hammer forging both shotgun as well as rifle barrels for a few decades. I was on the production floor before they went bankrupt a few years ago and they were running shotgun barrels through the shop that particular day.
@@parrisgeorge9708 Good for Remington. Poor management didn't help.
Cold hammer forging is an inferior manufacturing process. It's great for mass-production. And on a shotgun barrel it really doesn't matter. But most high-end barrel-making companies here in the USA use billet blanks that are turned on a lathe to final shape and bores are cut with incredible precision. But these barrels are typically used on high-end precision rifles. Some examples are Bartlein, Krieger, Brux, Shilen, Hawk Hill, Proof, etc. Most rifles I see with cold hammer forged barrels are entry-level/budget. But again... probably doesn't matter as much with a shotgun.
@@FourT6and22 It sounds like you are talking out of your ass. Metallurgy says cold hammer forging is a superior material handling for metal alloys. The Germans got it... Americans don't get it.
FN and DD hammer forge their barrels too.
Your videos are so well constructed; informative, interesting and the editing sets the absolute benchmark. Your content is unsurpassed young man.
Wow, thank you!
Welcome in VALTROMPIA 👍🏻👍🏻😀😀🌟🌟
Simulations are only as good as how well the problem is modeled. Proper barrel geometry with material thermal and mechanical properties with uncertainties. Use correct boundary conditions with varying pressure, temperature, and fiction loads. How does the barrel react deformation (elastic and inelastic) and vibration wise. It would be interesting to simulate and capture the barrel behavior in slow motion and the effects with different loads and chokes.
I can tell. From 687 eell to 682 gold E to DT-11 “about 8 years ago”. This gun shoot way different and is so much better. I just fear they will make a better gun and I’ll have to hide from my wife again.
That's not just cutting edge but bleeding edge technology.
*so the EU is going to fuck up beretta quality*
It’s all about science to make a best gun. Impressive.
I wouldn't have thought the internal electroplating would last more than a few hundred shells
Good stuff
What a brilliant and fascinating video…thank you very much! A question….are all DT11’s hand/manually regulated or just the high end ones….EELL etc? Thanks. Ian.
From what we saw, all DT11’s go through beretta due for hand finishing
@@tgsoutdoors thank you very much, great to know
your videographer did an amazing job
Best in the business
Awesome............
Bravo! !
What is the specification for barrel convergence on 686 Silver Pigeon guns?
Just a quick clarification. In the vacuum chamber, it’s a stress relieving process because it’s a sub-critical anneal. The vacuum part of the process is so the barrel don’t get surface oxidation. Correct?
I believe so yes, the vacuum is there to keep the material ‘pure’
Well done. Thank you. Could an invitation from Fabbri be in the offing?
somebody got a call to get an upgrade of the best kind… excellent love the tech end of things and this shows how much beretta cares about their product. well done sir (don’t make of red labels… ssssshhhhhh just bought my first 45 years of age on tomorrow ordered it yesterday ssssshhhhh) ON I DIDN’T SPEND 1,200 dollars on a new shotgun…. ssssshhhhhhh
Should look into the Blaser F3 and F16 sometime…
What are the tolerances for convergence? What is acceptable to Beretta?
Great video. Nice job. Some questions on the test guns: Were the weights, forcing cones, bore sizes/dimensions, and choke cone dimensions all the same? Were they all stocked the same way? I don't understand how the bbls can alter the recoil. It doesn't make sense, and it seems to defy physics. Where's the recoil energy going?
The way it was explained to me is that it’s about reducing peak pressures in the shells, by reducing resistance with the longer forcing cones. The overall pushback will be the same but instead of a spike it’s more of a smooth incline of pressure that most shooters will find preferable. The spike in pressure also translates as more muzzle lift, so reducing the spike reduces lift.
On the test guns:
The weights were different, 3 ounces or so between each model.
Chokes were the same - Modified in all
Stock dimensions were similar, but the profiles and grip shapes are different.
Forcing cones are obviously different in each, that’s the point in the test, and bore size is different as it’s measured at the point where the cone is in two of the guns.
@@tgsoutdoors So I've been thinking more. Did they measure the velocity of the shot mass at the point where they photographed it?
It’s really nice and informative seeing the tech and how they use it. It’s also nice to see it’s not all hype. My next field gun will be a Baretta. This video has influenced my decision. Thank-you and Baretta for letting all of us in.
Meeting the requirements of REACH are going to be very difficult
Does the beretta 687 EELL have steelium plus barrels
As an aerospace engineer I would love to simulate the mechanical behavior of a barrel and the shot pattern for a company like this