What is Intonation? | Too Afraid To Ask
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- The only 'stupid questions' are the ones you are Too Afraid To Ask. "Intonation: What is it? What difference does it make?" is the question for this TATA video. Let's get a guitar in tune to discover the importance of intonation.
Leave your TATAs in the comment section and I'll make a video answering them.
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The only 'stupid questions' are the ones you are Too Afraid To Ask. "Intonation: What is it? What difference does it make?" is the question for this TATA video. Let's get a guitar in tune to discover the importance of intonation.
Leave your TATAs in the comment section and I'll make a video answering them.
More from CSGuitars:
Gain access to exclusive content at: www.patreon.com/csguitars
Buy CSGuitars Merchandise:
csguitars.bigcartel.com/
Website:
www.csguitars.co.uk
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colin@csguitars.co.uk
CSGuitars my question is about scales and chords and the theory about music when learning do u think it’s something that u have to know to be able to write good songs/music is it something that has to be known for u to be known as a “guitarist” I’m 19 been playing for about 3-4 years now and I still only know basic things and wanna put more lead type playing on my riffs do u think it’s best to learn or make somthing with what I know thanks 🤘🏻 would really love to hear what u think of this
You are speaking to someone who learned piano and flute, and played in orchestras for ten years before even picking up a guitar.
I can tell you plainly that there is a huge difference between a musician and someone who plays an instrument. That difference is a knowledge and understanding of musical theory.
Learn theory, but not guitar centric theory. Get a broad general view of how music works. That makes everything else so much easier when you know why music works.
My TATA is about the volume and tone nobs. Some guitars don't have tone nobs but I'm wondering if its possible to remove the volume nob but keep the pot in order to make even more hand room on the guitar.
No such thing as a stupid question.. just stupid people asking questions.
Not knowing something isn't the same as being stupid.
The stupidest people are the ones who don't ask questions, because they never learn.
"Does that mean frets are autotune for guitar?"
Yes. Yes it does.
Frets are auto-almost-tune for guitar. As mentioned, frets are an approximation (or a series of compromises). Much like piano key pitches are a tuning compromise.
@@wooliegeek so pianos are also approximately tuned?
Vikrant Singh well, not approximate so much as a computed compromise.
Frets are there for their effect on tone and decay time, as well as to make chords more viable. Fretless instruments are generally bowed, but when plucked they either accept the short decay and woody tone (as in an oud), use metal fretboards (as in a sarod), or use left hand fingernails or a slide (as in a sarod or a slide guitar). Each of these functions as a portable fret, but none provide the same level of dexterity as using the four fingers of the left hand separately as is possible with frets. There's a reason whenever you hear a fretless electric guitar demoed on youtube they use excessive amounts of distortion: it hides the radically different tone colour.
So autotune frets your voice. Never thought about it like that.
Pro tip: when intonating, follow the direction of the tuner. When flat (the tuner points to the left of the note), move the saddle to the left (when looking down at playing position), and vice versa. Go the opposite direction for lefty guitars.
That's awesome!
For me this wasn't a "Too Afraid to Ask," but more of a "Not Really Sure How to Ask." But you answered my poorly formed questions anyway! Thank you for such an informative video, at this point I almost have a total understanding of the mechanics of my guitar. Only confusing thing now is the truss rod and adjusting it, and how to really notice bowing in the neck
If you have a 12" long steel ruler, you can check the neck btyputting the ruler between the strings, and the frets should all be touching the ruler edge if the neck is straight- tdo it when the strings are tuned correctly as this influences the neck alignment ,the best neck setting is with a slight bow upwards- just a small amount, to avoid "fret Buzz" on a low action guitar. Most guitars have a two-way truss rod, so you can adjust it for upward bow, or to pull the neck downwards to achieve a flat or slight upward bow. Hope this helps
Another way to tell if the intonation is out, is the 12th fret harmonic and the 12th fret note will be different! 24th frets for those that have them will be a more noticeable difference.
True, but this is less accurate than using the open string and 12th fret note.
@@lewisbulled6764 12th fret harmonic is more accurate than open string, not less.
Not necessarily. As said in the video, the fret position is only an approximation of the right position across the strings. If you adjust your intonation using the harmonic, it won't sound intonated if the 12th fret is not at the "right" spot ;)
@@mememastodon69 Correct, you can't press to hard or too soft when plucking an harmonic which could influence the pitch like it would when you're pressing a fret
All of my various tuners register the harmonics as slightly flat, so I can confirm they are not the best way to check intonation. Use a tuner.
"Does that mean frets are autotune for guitarists?"
Oh, dear Colin, what have you started?
Are keys autotune for pianists?
Based on how I play.. Definitely not.
Are grids autotunes for desktop users?
@@donicsm7684 hilarious bro... but sort of not funny... cuz the other people in my house have to hear me warble on the keys... but whatever! Still funny!
Very well described.
And that streets of rage arrow just nailed it.
My thoughts? If achieving perfect intonation is driving you crazy, get psychiatric help and learn to live with your guitar's limitations.
True. It's mathematically impossible to perfectly intonate a piano, but you don't see pianists losing sleep over it.
It's part of the charm of these instruments I think.
@@ScienceofLoud why is that?
@@vikrantsingh47 Paul David's going into this in a very easy to understand manner in his video "Why didn't Frusciante tune his guitar?"
Thanks for advice it worked for me
Fender * cough*
And all this time I though intonation was a sovereign state of closed toed shoes.
Thanks for clearing this up.
Informative as always! nice video dude!
ins and outs of multi scale and baritone guitars would be a good one
Yes yes yes! Most fixes can be done with a screwdriver on guitar, and I love it! I've got my Matt Heafy les Paul signature (6 string) setup for Eb standard/ drop C#.
Hey Colin! I'd love to hear about the science of Fan fretted guitars! I think that'd be pretty dope.
Intonation taught me that guitars really don't "settle down" until they are around 4 years old. Then the wood is stable. My Mexican black-face tele body/neck kept shrinking and I almost ran out of adjustment room on one of the strings. Any further shrinking and I would have to fill and redrill the tailpiece screw holes. My 2000 LP studio was bought new and its intonation was all screwed up for a year or two. Now those guitars are very stable.
If there is a god, you are indeed doing the lord's work Colin. Last time I did studio work, I intonated EVERYONE in my bands guitars/basses (was the only person in the band who knew how to do so) Its beyond important to be in tune!
The truss rod can also affect the intonation. As the truss rod is the way to adjust the action in the center of the fret board.
Making the frets closer to the string affects how you fret a note. We are technically bending ever time we fret a normal not as the string does arch when freted.
This was the best explanation of intonation I've seen on CZcams! Thanks!
I agree, most assume too much and just don't make it clear what you need to do and it gets super confusing.
Colin: "Does that mean frets are autotune for guitar?"
Glenn: [triggered]
Hosa now if we could only have beat detective for guitar (aka having good rhythm)
controversial opinion: autotune is a valid technique in studio, is not "cheating" and is an interesting effect when used in the right situation.
Ngā wai o Opito its like when people thought that synths where not real instruments or multitrack recording was cheating. Then people come along and show that they are musical tools in there own right.
@@skuzza405 Relativity. Perception. Opinion. That said...
...Auto tune is an instrument, just like anything else that produces a desired sound in music, and should be viewed as such, not as an aid or crutch for those who cannot perform, but add a creative angle for those who do. My opinion on auto tune and, hopefully, a good extension of your opinion. ✌ peace and love
Awesome explanation! Cheers, Richard from Paris
You omitted the critical part about setting the intonation: it is a monstrous pain in the ass.
alright, i tried to set the intonation on my guitar, everything went well, but I was suprised about how little the changes needed to be to completely alter the intonation. Like, a 16th of a turn on the screw made the 12th note halfa step sharper...
Always little adjustments, shouldn't take much at all.
Everything in this video was way over exaggerated for visual impact. Probably should have put a disclaimer in there about that.
Yep. I took my power drill to the low E intonation setting on my 61 strat and created a nifty recurve bow by accident. Sounds awful but I can bring down a 12 point buck from my porch.
@@PlanktoniusRex I laughed at that more than I should. 😂
This is the perfect video for exactly what I wanted to know.
That was a very clear and straightforward explanation of intonation. Especially helpful was the bit about frets being approximations of where the note can be found.
Floyd roses. That’s my tata. Takes forever to adjust and when you think you are done the action is a bit to high, So better to start all over again.
Action matters too. If you perfectly intonate your pride and joy, and then raise or lower the strings, you’ll have to intonate it again.
String height is also a factor. You can be perfectly intonated hitting the 12th fret harmonic, but then if your string is too high, pressing down at that fret will cause it to be out of tune due to the angle of deflection. It's a balancing act. I've had guitars set up with good intonation but the action is lower than I like. Just raising the string a tiny bit means rechecking and adjusting the length.
I never fail to learn something from your videos! I understood intonation, but didn't fully grasp true temperament or compensated nuts. Thank you Colin, and keep them coming!!!👊
Some of my students dont care about intonation. For me is very important so when you play octave notes they always in the correct note. It's so easy to do it. And when I adjust the neck tension the intonation goes out again. Even with floyd rose is easy. And if the intonation screw does not move further anymore . Then you have a problem with string height,or neck bent or the worst like happen to me. Under the locking nut. Was to low. I placed a steel sheet plate and was still wrong. Then I sand under the nut and place the metal sheet and create a height of 0.5mm. Then it worked fine . If you got problems. Ask me.
Not too afraid to ask this question: How are acoustic guitars intonated? I have been an acoustic player for years and am only now wading into an electric guitar & have adjusted the intonation on my strat, it didn't need hardly any adjustment. But this made me curious on how acoustic guitars are intonated....great info here & thank you, in advance!
frets are completely necessary, playing an A Major Chord with frets can be done by nearly every new guitar playing, A Major without frets ... i dont wanna spend years practicing this and still failing :D
in general, frets are needed to have chords
@CSGuitars This is probably an adequate explanation for someone who just wants to get their guitar intonated. I'm going to nit pick, not as a criticism, but just for those who want a deeper understanding of what's actually happening.
Firstly, the intonation adjustment is not to actually to correct for the length of the vibrating string being incorrect, but to compensate for the increase in string tension from the string being stretched downward to meet the fret. If the 12th fret is at exactly one half the scale length, it would theoretically double the pitch, all else being equal. In reality, because you are slightly stretching the string when you fret it, it gets pulled slightly sharp. You compensate for this by making the total string length slightly longer. Effectively, what you're actually doing from a tuning perspective is increasing the scale length of that string, and moving all of the frets proportionally closer to the nut than their _theoretically correct_ positions (relative to the new longer scale length)
If you want a good experiment to demonstrate this effect set your intonation, then jack up the action crazy high on one string, and see what happens. Because the string now needs more stretch to reach the fret, you'll find that the fretted pitch is now too high, and you'll need to tighten the intonation screw further to compensate. (the lower your action, the less compensation is needed)
You also mention the fret positions being an approximation, and that's not quite right. I believe your explanation is somewhat confusing intonation and temperament. While it's true that some compensation is needed for string stretch, straight frets can be (and typically are) installed in the theoretically correct positions. If it were possible to have an infinitely low action with ideal strings, the frets would actually be perfect.
What can't actually be perfect is all of the intervals. The problem there is that musical intervals are based on integer relationships, and if you do the math, there's no way to space everything perfectly so they all work at the same time. It's actually impossible to fix that, screwy curved frets or no.
I'd like a good mathimatical hype-free description of what "true temperament" is actually trying to accomplish, and how, because as it's typically explained is total BS. Is it changing the temperament of the instrument, or is it just a per-string intonation compensation (If so, different strings will screw that up). Its actually impossible to have all of your intervals in tune, so if it's a temperament thing, it's wrecking other intervals to fix what they're fixing. Also, it introduces a bunch of other problems. Bends are going to be really screwy. I've experienced that effect on a fanned fret bass I built. Notes will bend very quickly in one direction, and very slowly, or the wrong way in the other (depending on the angle at the point where you bend) Having weird corners and steps is just going to be chaos.
Thanks for the clear explanation. And finally a Scottish I can understand
Just wow. Playing today and I noticed that my low E was off half a step when fretted. Didn't think much of it. While watching a random set up vid, the word intonation was thrown around. I've always heard the word but never knew what I meant. I click on your vid and you tell me exactly what's wrong with my guitar. I wasn't even trying to solve a problem and yet you game me the answer. Thank you so much!
Wish peoppe weren't afraid to ask questions like this.
It's a very important concept and also very simple to understand
Thanks for answering a question I was too ‘proud’ to ask
I LOVE that you've been doing this series!
I believe music is all about tuning in with the vibe rather than tuning in with the calculations. 🙂
Nobody is going to be vibing if your instrument doesn't play in tune. Learn to set up your instrument properly.
I would like you to keep making these
Am i early enough ? Patreon Notification Squad 🤘 !
One TATA I've had: what's the difference between the volume, gain, and master volume controls on an amplifier? I know how they sound different, but what's going on under the hood that actually makes them different? And what about amps that don't have a master volume control?
Keep up the good work, my Scottish crush. ❤
I did I video on the terminology of gain a while back which will answer some of that. I may look at something more comprehensive in the future.
Thanks for sharing such a clear and straightforward answer - no gimmicks, just the truth.
My guitar will either sound better or be fire starter after this video. good stuff
This needs to be on continual replay in every guitar shop on every Saturday......
Excellent vid and description.
Reminds me of when I was a kid and played Trombone in band.
The closed position was essentially the "nut" to tune, then the rest was up to you.
Great Streets of Rage reference!
BRUTAL VIDEO MANNN THANKSSS
Fabulous tutorial
Thank you! Amazing I've made it playing 20+ years without knowing this.
Sounds avant-garde when the strings are out of intonation.
Very beautiful.
Dude, Long Live Scotland!
These are really informative, thanks for making them! Intonation is a bitch to do right
Excellent video.. I finally understand what the heck I'm doing when I try to set up my own guitar instead of paying someone to do it for me! Thank you!! 🙌
TATA: Someone below asked about different trem systems but I was just curious about different bridges all together. an all in one video. Mainly because I was having a conversation with a friend about Hardtail bridges and he said it's called a hipshot bridge. We looked online to try and find out the differences but mostly came to find that people calling them "hipshot hardtail" or "hardtail hipshot" bridges... Well is it a hipshot or a hardtail or what? You're a legend Colin keep it up!
Hipshot is a brand name. They make hardware parts for guitar, including hardtail bridges.
Hipshot's locking tuners are the best on the market in my opinion.
@@ScienceofLoud Thanks for the reply! That makes more sense. My schecter c-7 custom has locking tuners and I love them, next time I get a guitar if they don't already have locking tuners i'll check out the hipshot ones! Thanks again
Intonation compensation does matter on fretless instruments as well, especially if there are fret-lines. You can fine tune by moving your fingers a little, but setting the intonation screws (on a guitar), or correctly positioning the bridge (on acoustic instruments) will put the notes where you expect them, and consistently from string to string. When I first converted one of my old basses to fretless, I found that the positions were quite far off from the old fret lines (since I still had it set up for fretted). Re-adjusting based on the half-string harmonic, and fingered at the 12th fret line got all the strings tuned much closer to where they should be (If you capo your fretless guitar, the strings should still be in tune relative to each other)
Wow i feel like such a fool. So I picked up my guitar that i haven't used for years and decided to clean some parts. I noticed that the bridge saddles on my guitar we're all crazy looking as some were up high and some low. I have a thing where I love everything to look symmetrical and aligned. So not knowing what the hell the bridge saddles were for I decided to move them all forward and evenly. Big mistake as my guitar now sounds bad. Lesson learned i guess lol. This video really clarified what those saddles are for. I was completely clueless before I watched this video as you can obviously see lol.
I really needed this. Thanks
I knew this stuff, but you do better explaining it then I do. (Will show this to my students)
Thanks for the well informed video. Everything was clear and straight to the point.
I still hate the full set up as been a chef I have days where I don’t play, luckily I have a Jackson pro soloist neck through so it keeps in-tune longer then expected.
That’s ending was brutal 👍🏻
Anybody else know all this shit but still watch these videos because they're just fun to listen to?
Thanks Colin. So perfectly explained. Appreciate you - sharing the Knowledge. Cheers from NYC.
Thanks for this video. I posted it in my FB group Fender Fanatics,Inc.
There is also fanned frets that compensate with tuning!
Superb, Simple, Understood.
One of the best on CZcams! Thanks Colin! 🎼🎸
I love these sounds ! they remiind me of a science tv show I used to watch as a kid (for the french ones here, "C'est Pas Sorcier" was the best, right ?)
Great video, one of my friend didn't know what these screws were for and screwed his intonation for a long time, this video would have helped him.
wonderful explanation!!! intonation is rite where I am at with guitar.
I think that it was Fluff who gave this bit of advice about intonating a guitar (at least for righties): Follow the Needle. If your tuner is saying sharp (i.e. pointing to the right) then you need to pull the saddle back (to the right). Works for me and I've never gotten that wrong ever since.
I've been using the "rule of three Fs". If the *Fretted* note is *Flat* , move the saddle *Forward* .
oh Colin you've done it again, I thought I knew all I needed to on a subject, and then you show me there's always a little bit more to learn. Thanks for another awesome video.
Hands down best explanation of intonation ive found!
What a superb and condensed explanation about intonation!! This video is just "the best"!! Congratulations Colin! Greetings from Brazil!
I never knew and never bothered to ask what was even going on with the bridge. I just tuned the open string and hoped for the best. Yeesh.
Thanks, CS Guitar!
I love this channel so much, Colin. You’re a naturally gifted teacher.
BEST explanation of intonation I've seen 💪
And in under 6 min!
Colin you are the best!
My Tata is about different trem systems, what's the difference between floating bridge systems like Floyd Rose and Kahlers?
A floyd rose works like a fender trem, being attached via springs in the back of the guitar and acting like a seesaw, with the whole bridge unit moving when the whammy bar is used, whereas a kahler has a rotating bar called a cam that the strings are attached to which is the only part that moves when using the whammy bar.
One wraps the strings around a rod and rolls them back and forth to change the string length on the spot. The other causes cancer when tuning.
@@stevenabbott4505 lol noice one man
Just get rid of them
Best explanation I've heard. Thanks!
Thank you now i get it, never found a good video
Hey Colin, here's a TATA. "Why do we tune a guitar to the way it is?" (y'know, E Standard)
Yea, the first instrument to tune by a perfect fourth (A fourth is the smoke on the water interval, or six frets up diagonally) was actually the double bass. Since they had such a long scale, they couldn't tune to fifths (power chords) because it would be too hard to make the stretches. Violins are tuned to fifths, because they have a short scale, so stretching isn't a problem. So we carried tuning the bottom four strings the same as the double bass. However, if you tuned the interval between the "g" "b" string to a forth, your 6th string would be an f which is a half-step from e, which would've caused an ugly dissonance. Thus, they changed the distance between the b and g string to a major third (five frets up diagonally) so your last string would be tuned to e. That's all I can remember. Sorry if this explanation is hard to understand.
Well there are tons of other tunings if you want to
Best explanation ive heard thus far. Well done.
Anthoer win for the fixed bridge over the floyd!!
I always thought a lot of intonation issues were down to the fact that simply by fretting the string you're putting it under a bit of tension, making it sharp?
Crossed my mind... So, acoustic guitar... There is no way for doing this on an acoustic? Should it even be done at the first place on an acoustic, or it does not need it? confused... Awesome vid man, thanks!
i’m wondering the same thing
You're right - acoustic guitars do not have adjustable saddles. If the luthier gets it wrong when building the guitar, the whole bridge (or at least the bone saddle) needs to be repositioned. Tools that enable a luthier to experiment with moving the bridge to the right position before committing do exist, but they are not realistic to buy or use for the average person. Broadly speaking, acoustic guitarists tend to not spend as much time high up on the neck on their acoustic guitars as electric players do on theirs.
@@meadish 👍👍
@@meadish I have learned some tricks on how to do it on acoustic and i did it, but you really have to now what you are doing. Not easy to do it right. Not easy at all. But once you do it, it sounds amazing. It is better to take it to luthier, they know this stuff quite well. I had luck doing it.
Great explanation!! I never saw it the way it was showed by the sharp or flat on the fingerboard! Greetings from Hollywood California!
Excellent and thoroughly explained
Lol "Does that mean frets are auto tune for guitar"
This man is a....
Freaking genius!!!!
How about a video on Necks? Especially neck-profiles, fingerboard-radii and scale-lengths.
Saved for eternal reference. Still waiting on a video explaining pickup positions and how it effects "lead" and "rythem" tones.
Great description! Thanks!
I am going to adjust my intonation today. You have inspired me.
love seeing how much your channel's grown!
Thank you so much I was totally clueless and was able to adjust my bridge after this
Looking forward to more tatas
TATA here, why pickups located on the neck sound so differently to pickups located on the bridge?
When a string vibrates, the string is moving laterally (actually, more circular and as a wave along the length, but it's easier to picture as linear). At the peaks of the vibration, the string travels wider at the middle of the string than at the bridge or nut/fret. This means the middle of the string has more freedom of movement than at the ends, making the tone "warmer", or even "bassier". At the nut/feet and bridge, the string has a shorter and slower travel that is highly restricted by those points of contact. The sound is thus "crisper" and "brighter." You will note that the bridge pickup is brighter in sound than then neck. Since the movement at the ends is smaller, there is less energy moving them. That is why you need fatter, more powerful pickups at the bridge than the neck (case in point: Telecaster pickups).
@@CTSmerv That's really interesting! Is that the same reason why the place where you pick the string affects the sound in a similar way? (If you pick near the bridge it sounds brighter than if you pick at the middle of the string)
Dude! I really like the way you do things! Diy guitars to instrument knowledge! Keep rockin it!
Well done explanation Colin. I sometime have problems explaining it so I will use this video in future when someone asks.🔥🎸🤘🏻
Great explanation. Love the TATA series, brilliant concept.
Thanks for that
Colin, you are a national treasure.
I assume that if I am not changing string brands or gauges when changing strings, the intonation set previously will _most likely_ keep?
have to say i must thank you for making these type of videos, especially for making this video it has really helped me a lot cheers
Awesome to the point explanation! I will be checking out more from you.
Thank you for this,great teaching.