How Violin Playing Has COMPLETELY CHANGED in the Last 60 Years
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2024
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S N A P C H A T: Brettybang | Eddy.Chen - Hudba
Vibrato hides the lack of technique
Me, a pianist: *smirks in pedal*
Me, also a pianist: raises both hands and right foot in agreement
😂😂😂😂👌
@@diana_cantabile what? I use me left foot for pedaling...
R E V E R B
I just wiggle my finger on the key idk it feels right
Brett's secret to aging backwards is sticking his head in lights
lmao
I’m gonna order one
that's probably why he's so bright
(...and being Asian)
@@ilymeow yes he smart boi
My interpretation is so unique no one hardly recognizes that I play Bach.
can relate!
When I play “moonlight sonata” people keep calling it “strangling a cat”
@@abdlhmdx my cat sounds better than me
Same same
😄😄😄😄
As a pianist I can tell you that one of the things that made Glenn Gould famous is that he totally changed the way pianists play Bach. Before Gould, pianists would play Bach the same way they would play Liszt: lots of pedal, lots of dynamics, lots of rubato, lots of legato. But after Gould, pianists play Bach with little to no pedal, more subtle dynamics, and a stricter tempo with clearer articulations.
One of the true glories of Bach is that it sounds great in a variety of interpretations and styles.
But the thing is that Gould was playing Bach on an equal temperament instrument which completely changes the melodic lines. He convinced a whole generation that the purpose of the 48 was to demonstrate that it is possible to play in all keys with improved tuning, but it is not true. The idea was to demonstrate music written for the distinctive colours you would get in each key: so Gould's interpretations, though brilliant of course, give a very misleading idea of Bach's intentions.
"interpretation is how the musician interprets the music"
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes
ah yes you see the floor here is made out of floor
They want to include laymen enthusiasts in their viewership. That's laudable.
@@ririgawa1665 the argument is lack of data. What population? only that way would work
Haha
I want to like this comment but also want to leave it at 666 likes.....
"interpretation is how the musician interprets the music"
- Brett 2020
Klara Marden this should be in textbooks XD
Now everything makes sense
Its like saying
People die when they are killed
Every 60 seconds in Africa a minute passes. Together, we can stop this.
"The way a music piece is PLAYED is how a music piece is PERFORMED."
I have heard them both in concert, Milstein and Grumiaux. Grumiaux sounded like I had never heard anybody before and never again after. He has left deep traces in my memory. Although it is half a century ago I´ll never forget that sound like a huge soft cloud floating at me. Milstein was very impressing too with his sound as well with his Bach.
I don´t believe in the idea of "right" or "wrong" interpretations, nor that a "historic" interpretation would be the only legitimate one. We play modern instruments (even a Stradivari with a longer neck, steel strings, modern Bow, higher bridge...) which require that we play differently from, say, the 18th century. There is a relatively wide corridor of possible interpretation and in the end it is one´s taste and liking as long as it is coherent and convincing. I still like Milstein best.
Grumiaux Sonatas and Partitas are still my Go To performances.
The Josef Szigeti performances of the Bach are also something special. He fills a tiny volume of space with the music. It's like watching a candle flame. Very melancholy in a charming way.
so many languages, and you speak with the true
1:58
Violinist: **plays a chord**
Brett and Eddy: **start laughing**
Me: **not getting it and starting to feel weird**
GOT EM
I see they are getting more educational and I'm diggin' it
I read this as he was putting his face in the light...lol
two violin nerds making fun of people, but this video is very instructional
Yessss!
sameee
And I like that this is liked lol! Hopefully Brett and Eddy listen to their audience! I love the light and funny stuff, but these informative and still comedic videos have real potential to reach audience with education.
No matter how you play it, i sound great
Also, Liszt didn’t start the no sheet music tradition. Clara Wieck (Schumann) did when she was a kid. She was a prodigy and people back in the day called her Linglara Lingenhaussen.
In fact Robert Schumann was jealous of his wife's capabilities as a pianist, so he wrote pieces that would require large hands so that she couldn't play them. But then he himself couldn't play some things he wrote either, and hurt his own fingers while trying to stretch them with a weird finger stretching device.
Back in those days, there were ads like "Do you want a bigger hand and longer fingers? Click here!" and sadly Robert Schumann clicked on them. Which redirected him to a page where there were videos of pianists with big hands fingering chords, and Robert got jealous again and purchased the whole hand enlargement set. I mean, I'm not sure if this is all correct tho. I heard it from Brahms...
Coolio
Clara schumann always gets the crappy end of the stick. Typical that the credit would go to someone else :(
I didn´t know that! Pls post that on the Liszt Paganini disstrack!
oh schumann s wife
Clara Schumann was a beast. It’s sad that she’s overshadowed sometimes
I think it's important to note that improvements in recording technology might also be driving some of these stylistic changes. Before microphone improvements allowed the subtitles of "crooning" to be recorded with any fidelity, that style of vocals wasn't viable commercially. You get really, really close to this when you mention Elman's performance being "so matter of fact." It was likely performed that way so it could be clear and understandable through old microphones and old radios. Many of the the radios playing that song while it was being broadcast were likely made in the 40s and 50s.
Really good point! 😮 I'd love to see a music-focused CZcamsr go into detail on that, across different musical styles?
that would explain the abrupt attacks on every note so public could clearly hear each seperate note.... i guess with the audio system then as i hear them indeed it would ve sound like an unclear blur.....what would make you think they would play quite differently live?
There is some point here but it is a mistake to think that the old guys were playing to compensate for anything about recording technology. They were just playing the way they played in the hall. Moreover, the microphones of the early high fidelity era(1950 and 1960) were not in fact at all accurate-- they had nasty higher frequency resonances. I heard these "old guys: live (Grumiaux and Heifetz and Szeryng-- I missed Elman) The recordings are not representative of what was really heard when one heard them live. Actually even today very few recordings really sound like live violin sound. Audio people live in a dream world where they are recording real sound. Fat chance. The microphones are way too close for a start. (We won;t even go into the fact that speakers vary all over the map)
@@robertgreene2684 Just curious then, after all you said, how was it hearing the old guys live compared to what you hear today?
I am not a musician, nor do I know much of anything about Classical music. Your video just popped up in my Suggested Feed. With that being said, your enthusiasm for differences, what at first listen for me, would have sounded more or less the same, was infectious. It was a joy to see you both have dumbfounded awe at the same spots on something I have zero idea about. Thanks for the smile.
good for you for being so astute! enjoy. :) 🎼🌼
same here. I laughed my a** off. just by seeing their reactions and immediately understanding the point.
well done!!
“Rachel Podger is one of the more well-kown baroque violinists.”
Ray Chen: *Who’s Rachel Podger?*
Bahaha deserves more likes than this 😂
haha exactly my thought process as well. Ray dug a 6-feet grave that day
I prefer Shunsuke Sato, he has amazing Bach and Vivaldi recordings on CZcams. And he won the International Bach Competition as an added bonus. So did Rachel Barton Pine, her Bach is also great.
Harrison Loeffler Sato’s recordings are amazing! The best I’ve ever listened to IMHO
That’s exactly what I thought of, I half expected them to play that clip 😅
My dad: You watch way too much CZcams.
Me, watching TwoSet Violin: it’s _educational_
Omg story of my life 🤣
yessir (or ma'am, no assuming genders)
Except I don't even play violin or have a violin at home
That's my excuse too , but they actually do teach me things
@@imhoneygreentea4782 true
As a listener, though Milstein’s interpretation may be not acceptable in the modern era, but I love the large soundstage and the rich tone that he produces. It almost sounds like 2 people playing. 😃
I prefer Milstein. I don’t understand how conservatoires are able to dictate how to be creative 🙄 Historically informed performances seem somewhat sterile and pretentious.
I will always rather listen to older recordings (1960’s-1980’s) over today’s recordings. The older ones are much better!!
Rachel Podger is my hero. I’ve had the opportunity to meet her several times, and I was sure to ask about her string set. She uses a Toro E, Gamut A, D, and Pirastro olive G.
I love her Bach Double recording; I listen to it so often.
What in the name of all that's holy are THOSE?
@@blixten2928 Good question. Toro is an Italian company that makes gut strings by hand. You wouldn’t have heard of them unless you use gut strings. Gamut is very similar, but they’re located in the U.S. I’ve spoken with Mr. Gamut before, and he’s a very nice gentleman that takes pride in his work. Pirastro is a German company that makes both synthetic and gut strings. Their most popular string is Evah Pirazzi. I hope that helps. Please let me know if you have any other questions, I manage a small violin shop in Northern California.
@@Violamanben Thank you so very much! Wonderful that you manage a violin shop, perhaps something (remotely) good about the pandemic is that people can turn back to their instruments (and practice)! And I hope videos such as Twosets really spread knowledge and appreciation of the instrument. It's one of the great achievements of human civilisation.
All those years playing "early"stuff probably means that Rachel's interpretation of bach is grounded in performance similar to that that of musicians contemporary with him (Ithink of it like a spoken accent) and her beautiful intonation is probably due to natural ability and not having to match discordant equal temperament
" Rachel Podger - famous Baroque specialist "
*flashback to Ray Chen asking who was Rachel Podger*
Ray: "Who's Rachel Podger?"
Brett & Eddy: "OOOOOOOOOOH"
@@rockbell Ray: *confused cute face*
Why did i laugh at this hahahah
HAHAHAHAHAH YEAH!
im new to this channel who are these people
Prediction: bretts lofi song will change the whole industry once again.
He created a new genre
Totally ᐠ( ᐛ )ᐟ
Demonic anxiety music
elpotatochip relaxing study music*
in 2120 people will be reviewing Brett's lofi
It's good to remember that "old school" playing didn't just pop up out of nowhere: the late 19th and (much of the 20th) centuries were all about interpretation, which became more extreme as the era wore on. Composers expected it of players. I adore "informed performance", but I'm no longer getting caught in the "this is good/that is bad" thinking I used to when I first fell in love with "informed performance".
SDxs
12:44 😂😂I really enjoyed this .....born 1960, thanks😂😂😂
“Music brings people together” -Eddy, right before he roasts other musicians.
the idea is to laugh at everyone and hate the child prodigies. thats what they mean by music brings people together
uniting people against child prodigies and violists.
*after
They have never hated on child prodigies. Only despaired at their own fate.
I’m starting to believe that Brett gets a crush on any woman who plays the violin well
XD yes!! We have found the romantic strain in Brett at last!!
Who doesn't?
@@paulpedersen1329 other women lol! XD. But it really is just turned around for us.
Both Brett and Eddy clearly (and justifiably) have a huge crush on Hilary.
@@nellapenelope3240 Some would. 😉
I admit to really liking the old-school approach to the Bach piece. I like the impact and the weight it has.
Great video, guys. As a non-musician music lover, I learned a lot. As a record collector, please permit me to correct at 1:35 "There's no more older school that that (1950s) 'cause recording wasn't even invented." Although 1948 marked the beginning of high fidelity recording when Columbia introduced the long playing vinyl record (LP or microgroove), commercial recording goes back another 60 years. Here's a short history of early audio recording.
Around 1890, German-American inventor Emile Berliner invented the first Gramophone which played flat disc records. Edison is credited with inventing sound recording in 1877 with a machine that used tinfoil wrapped around a metal cylinder as a medium, but not much happened until he switched to using hollow wax cylinders a decade later. (Interestingly, records are still referred to as "wax" or "stacks of wax" by DJs and the area between the last music groove and the label is called the "deadwax.")
Disc records and cylinders competed for market share over the 2 decades, with disc records becoming dominant by the 1910s, spawning the 2 major American record companies, Columbia and Victor (which evolved from Berliner's company, joined with RCA in 1929 to become RCA Victor, and is now called Sony Music Entertainment). Disc records of this era are called "shellac" records from the material of which they're made or "78s" from the nominal speed at which they rotated, although this varied greatly among labels.
Until 1925 when electrical recording with microphones began, all records were made acoustically, which refers to the method not the instruments, since all instruments were acoustic. The musicians gathered around a large horn which vibrated a diaphragm mechanically connected to a stylus which cut the master record into a soft wax (later lacquer) disc.
Although these early recordings have limitations (lower fidelity, surface noise, time constraints, easily damaged, limited lifetime), they're the only source we have for performances prior to 70 years ago. If you want to hear Caruso sing, Rachmaninoff or Paderewski play their own compositions, Toscanini conduct, or Louis Armstrong and His Hot Five play "Heebie Jeebies" then you have to go back to the old recordings (or transfers made to newer media like vinyl, CD, or digital files).
Consider that Liszt died in 1886 and Edison's first wax cylinders were released in 1888, so the world missed the priceless opportunity to hear him play by just 2 years. How great would that have been?
I have records going back to 1905 including Heifetz playing the Sibelius concerto (1935) and the 4th Mozart concerto (1948) and they sound pretty darn good, once you adjust your ears to the limitations of the medium and concentrate on the performance.
Don't forget non-US recording technology such as wire recorders (predecessor of tape) and the precision mechanical recording of piano performances (predecessor of MIDI files from modern keyboards).
Thanks for sharing! Really enjoyed learning more :)
@@johndododoe1411 Yes, piano rolls we're an important early recording medium, albeit for only one instrument. Gershwin famously recorded >140 piano rolls of popular music of the day and a smaller number of his own compositions. I have an early 1950s 10" vinyl record on Telefunken of Edvard Grieg playing some of his Lyric Pieces recorded on a piano roll in 1906. The fidelity obtained from these piano rolls exceeds that of disc recording of the day, although it could be argued that piano rolls are not audio recordings at all, but merely capture the position of keys and pedals at various times.
Wire recording WAS the first magnetic recording medium, but I didn't mention it because it was never used to record music for commercial release. Rather, it was limited to mainly office & home use for dictation and personal recording, and some military and aviation applications in the 1940s to early 50s.
I think they were joking but yeah I think they would be blown away if they heard the German magnetic tape recordings from 1944
Eddy: there goes your music degree
Brett: *whole life as a student in music university flashes in his eyes*
Maybelle Lee He looked just like the surprised Pikachu face!!
that moment when reality sets in 😂
Maxim Vengerov's interpretation of Sibelius Violin Concerto is the best alive to this day. Also thats your 3M drop 2Set.
I prefer Augustin Hadelich or emmanuel tjeknavoroan tbh
If I may add, his Variations on an original theme (Wieniawski) is sublime! The opening bars give me chills every time.
Christian Ferras? Heifetz? J. Bell? Perlman?
Nah Ray Chen's performance with the Gothenburg Symphony is equal to Vengerov's
Vengerov truly is the best
"Liszt popularized playing from memory"
Paganini: cries
Clara Schumann: Rolls eyes in woman
Omg! This recording with Vengerov was made in my country! I was at that concert in Sofia, a little girl about 8-9 years old. It was such a wonderful concert!! 💜
Brett: *kisses the light*
Me: Brett .... no
Is it only me or Brett is so charming today?
It must be because of he is so pureblood. So much classical nerdy stuff makes him even happier lol.
Look at him, he has not a deadpan face for the first time LOL.
i agree you can see how much he shines when listening to classical music
Haha totally
Aynen
Beyza Özbek Brett was more talkative in the old day and took the command. Eddy has matured during the years and now talks more than Brett. I have always wondered why. Maybe you have the answer. They haven’t that much pure classic violin music in their videos any more?
Brett is totally in his element here.
music is an art. every artist has their own interpretation, and all of them are great in their own ways
That may be true when talking about good musicians… Not all musicians are good in their way, lol
Please, please, PLEASE make more of these videos. I absolutely love musicians listening to other musicians. The raw emotion they conjure in you both is such a joy to watch and that coupled with your knowledge is an absolute joy.
Hi Eddie & Brett: I'm in the ((1))%!!! Born in 1957 and tell all my family and friends to watch you guys. Love your content, always fresh and fun.
🖤🖤🖤
Hi Kimberly. I'm your older brother and partner in the 1%. Born in 1951. Grew up listening to a Readers Digest Classical music collection. Played the 12 LPs non-stop (better than doing homework!) TwoSet takes me back to the 60s (not sure they would like to hear that given the subject of this vid!). I am the only person I know who walks around humming Danse Macabre!
@@richardigp Wow, I'm a new timer (born in 1992), also grew up listening to Reader's Digest classical music collection! Both my father and grandmother had them. My grandma taught me all the composers, I could identify about 50 famous pieces and their composers when I was five :)
Another 1957 here. Also loved the readers digest collection 😃. These lads have reawakened my interest in classical music.
and I thought I was the only boomer who watched.
The curious case of Brett Yang. Aging backwards video by video. I’m guessing by the 3mil drop Eddy will be playing Sibelius with a toddler Brett.
LOL
It's the Asian genes lol. That, and maybe because he stuck his head in the light. With a LIGHTER mood and a BRIGHT smile, one can seem a lot younger!
So, does that mean that Brett will TURN INTO a prodigy??
Adalia Alvarez yes he’ll become the fetus that can play Pag 24
@@elainewu4955 😂
This should’ve been called 15 minutes of Brett and Eddy enjoying violin. This was great
We need more of this kind of content! You guys taught me how classical music is meant to be appreciated. You guys pointed out all the subtleties I wouldn’t otherwise notice.
old school violinists: hm. i will fight for originality and distinction in a time where recordings are limited and everyone must make a name for themselves
modern violinists: I AM FOUR PARALLEL UNIVERSES AHEAD OF YOU
Janine playing at the frog still sounds better than me playing in the middle of the bow
She will sound better than most of us even if she's playing while upside down, hold the bow at the tip instead of at the frog
I love how each musician has their own interpretation. My biggest wish is that musicians don't get penalized or looked down upon as often as the do if they decided to play in older styles or different interpretations than is considered "right" or "mainstream" these days. Too often I have experienced berating of musicians because they didn't play it exactly as a teacher or instructor or peers wanted or believed it should be played. It feels in modern days people are trying to make too many musicians into robots to play a piece the same way no matter what. At least that is how I felt in University. I felt a lot of my creativity was being challenged too much because it didn't fit someone's expectations.
To be perfectly fair to some of the older masters of the recording era... One rather prominent school of violin playing was heavily influenced by the limitations of recording technology, itself. Any nuance or dynamics would be minimized, if not lost entirely, from microphones and tapes of the era; and so, to compensate, players would incorporate thicker, more excessive vibrato, and brighter, more aggressive and "projective" playing. It's less due to a lack of skill, or even a lack of nuance on the player's part, but more due to the remnants of an older and very valid train of thought; one which remained very valid well into the 60s, particularly as far as live recordings are concerned.
No disrespect to the old masters; but as much as I respect the likes of Elman or even Heifetz, neither of them are among my favorite violinists. However, their styles, albeit arguably excessive, make more sense in the context of the era they performed in.
Can't wait to see the memes of Brett's realisation face. 😂😂😂
Can´t wait to see the recorder players counterattack
Interpretation is when a musician *interprets.*
Cool, didn’t know that.
Gut strings are made out of gut.
Andrew Hollins the floor is made out of floor
I was definitely around before 1962; older than dirt to you. Not too old to enjoy your fun videos, not too old to learn stuff from young whippersnappers.
I LOVE that first recording. It is so ballsy and fresh sounding 70 years later. It sounds like what I would want to hear in a Dracula movie! And though it isn't as subtle, it has so much raw emotion to it. I would love to hear that aggression, but then have someone also pull out the goosebumps approach. Music like this is best with DYNAMICS, my friends.
No one:
Old school interpretation: *Play it thicker as possible.*
This has nothing to do with anything but I'm not wearing my glasses and for a split second I thought ur pfp was Obama. I think I'm blinder than I thought 😂
Yeah he play THICC!!!
As a jazz musician I like the "old school" version of Bach, I just dig the emotions and heavy/thickness of it
It was better than the other two. It had more guts.
Did have more "soul", honesty, spontaneity.
Agreed
@tubenshaft Why are you interrogating me? Yes, I meant what I wrote. Why on earth would you think that I didn't? I have no idea what you mean by an "Inside joke only students of Classical Music will get" (nor why you had to render most of the clause in italics). I intended no joke and I can see none (except a quite accidental quibble on catgut, perhaps, which is hardly side-splitting stuff).
@@francoisdelarochefoucauld7298 OK. I was a bit too quick to condemn.
One thing that happened was that people began to play for recordings. In a big hall, the accented style smoothed out. This is a huge effect. Heifetz on records sound a bit crunchy. In concert reality, he sound smooth as silk. (I know--I heard him live). I never heard Elman live but the effect was probably similar. Recordings have made people smooth themselves out. Is this better? Who knows? But it is a good idea to understand why it happened. Isaac Stern used to talk about this, about how when he recorded he would tone down the accents and emphases because the close up microphone of "high fidelity" recording(and especially the nasty resonant treble microphones of the 1950s )picked up the accents and made things sound more aggressive than they would sound to a concert audience. When one plays for recordings one plays a different way. I need to put up my own recording of Dvorak to illustrate this point. It is very close- so I smoothed it out. It works. But in a hall it would have sounded too smooth. Try it for yourself. The old players did not all smooth themselves out so they sound aggressive. But in concert they did not. People were in ecstasy over Elman's tone in reality. To understand this , you need not just to know about violin playing you need to know about how recordings work, what they do to sound.
Twosetviolin: Recording was not invented before 1960.
Arturo Toscanini died in 1957.
Frank Sinatra: *I guess I don't exist*
Also don't forget "Wizard of Oz"
Then why is there a recording of Saint Seans and Brahms.
@@witsukyai1685 Yes
@@witsukyai1685 or Heifetz and Kreisker
And Thibaud and Casals and Rachmaninoff and on and on
@@DonaldSosinJoannaSeaton you know they be acting authoritative but it don't slide with many of us
TwoSet: WiNds caN’T meMoRiZe Me: Laughs in Marching Band
I've been searching for a comment like this. Thank you!! ❤😅 #saxgang #windinstrumentslivesmatter
Solo recitals are usually memorized too. I did my competitions from memory.
yeppp
*silence* yeah I can't memorize shit
Double memorize. I remember getting yelled at about how many steps were in each measure from 60-72! "Well then, what measure is the time signature change in?!" "Where do you need to be by the and of 3 on measure 67?!" "Get there!" "Project! I need to hear you from the box!" "Alright! Full tempo! 180!" And the pushups. So many pushups.
Eddy: "Wind players just can't memorize🔥😂"
Me, a saxophonist/clarinetist: "I'm just focused on remembering to breathe man 😓"
Still love you guys ❤🎶
As a fellow woodwind player i can tell you it's because we aren't able to look at our fingers. If we could watch ourselves play, like string players and pianists, memorizing would become easier
honestly
Connor Fast I remember best based on feel and sound but the visual can sometimes help too
@@connorfast388 you've unveiled the biggest world's secret here, thanks 😂 I won't be ashamed anymore when people are like "YoU DoN't KnOw It By HeArT ???"
Violinists (good violinists) can usually play with their eyes closed. I don’t know if being able to see the fingers is the difference. Maybe it’s just cultural. Violin is so much more competitive, so memorization adds the extra wow factor?
I started on violin, then switched to French horn, and for my first competition I was like, “I can memorize this,” and my teacher was like, “Really? That’s not necessary but ok,” and then the judges were like, “What are you doing?! Use sheet music.”
I'm late but the whole "wind players can't memorize music"
*side eyes marching bands who memorize music, sets they have to move to, and dances to do whilst playing the music*
Lolol
So true about the glissing. I was taught to use certain "schmaltzy" pitch changes back in the 60's and 70's. I personally prefer the cleaned up versions. On the Bach, I learned to play the first chord like Milstein's example (actually saw him porform in Chicago years ago) -- broken in half. Later, a more modern teacher preferred a harp-like rendition. I love that music has so many interpretations! We get quite a variety of input if we study with different people.
“There you go, that’s your university degree”
@Jessica C S Brett: :O
I felt the pain and I've never even been to university
Another nerdy episode. I like it.
Listening various interpretations are important and also very enjoyable.
Yeah. I like their fun and silly videos but my favorites are always videos like this where they focus on the music and show their expertise. I've loved classical music for a long time but I'm still just a layman and so it's nice to hear the perspective of actual musicians. And of course they're still funny and entertaining while doing it. I think this particular format (comparing different interpretations) could become a great series.
Yeap. That's very cool.
I'm not a musician myself actually, but I find their videos entertaining, inspirational, and informative! I want to dabble into playing the violin now :)
Don’t forget the fact that the modern recital was invented by Franz Liszt, that Milstein, Szeryng, Heifetz, Grumiaux were still having to project into spaces that were several times bigger than Bach’s and that that necessitated major modifications to both the violin and bow and to how they were handled. You have to begin with the sort of acoustic that economically won’t allow the violinist to afford gas money. That having been said, many unnecessary anachronisms following Czerny, Joachim, etc., still infect Bach performance, mostly to do with phrasing. We still base a lot of it on a 19th-century concept of line, rather than an 18th-century approach to rhetoric-big mistake. There are lots of misunderstandings about national schools, too. The Italian Baroque, it’s very clear, used continuous vibrato, while Bach castigated his “nanny-goat bassoonist” for doing exactly the same thing in Germany. Why do so many Italian Baroque recordings use no vibrato? So, where exactly is appropriate to apply it in Bach? Is faithfulness to the letter of (which??) treatise more or less important than moving the listener?
The romantic bach is actually kind of epic. Weird but energised.
Og's remember this:
Ray: Who's Rachel Podger
Brett and Eddy: Laughing out loud
Ray: *Confusion noises*
Charades
Omg I love that episode.It's HILARIOUS!!!🤣🤣🤣
Visible confusion intensifies😂😂😂
Anyone who remembers this is falling behind on their Ling Ling regiment.
Next: How twoset videos have COMPLETELY CHANGED in the last 6 years.
They should react to their old reacts lol
More buzzwords, for example 😂
They suck
@@vartago no
@@vartago huh??
I loved the old school players. Like they were saying it was non apologetic and you could feel what they were feeling when playing it because of that.
Fun watching B and E’s reaction to Vengerov. What exquisite playing!!
Hey :) I highly appreciate the episodes where you two just sit together and talk about music so I came up with another idea for a video: Introducing us Ling Ling wannabes to pieces that are very famous these days but were not appreciated at all or even flopped when they were published back in the days e.g. Rite of Spring etc.
Thank you for inspiring me every day, please stay safe :D
randomclarinet075 Second that!
Yep, I'm all for balancing funny vids with educational ones
How about pieces that used to be epically overplayed and noone hears anymore.
OMG YES PLEASE
Great idea!
Being a Baby Boomer (yes, some of your viewers were born between 1946 -1964) I've listened to those big changes in interpretation over my lifetime. You guys entertainingly pointed out so many specific details to highlight the passage of time. I hope violin teachers are getting their students to subscribe to your offerings.
I am of the same generation (born mid sixties) and, like you, have lived through the changes. Maxim Vengerov (new school) is one of my favourite violinists but l still love the old school performances of Yehudi Menuhin and David Oistrakh.
@@elainethemusician3310 Mid sixties is not the same generation.
I’m new to classical music. I watched a documentary on Janine Jansen a recording session of Beethoven op 61. I fell in love with the music and her. The first 15 + minutes watching her just listing to the Orchestra how moved she was just grabbed me. She just becomes part of the music before she even played a note. She is a very beautiful woman but so much more than that. She is very expressive while playing and seems so connected to the orchestra. Well that started me down a path of exploration I don’t regret. This music makes me feel it. I’m a happier person for having found it. I could never go to a live concert of op 61 I would drive people crazy I can’t be still listening to it. Especially 1st movement.
There is no barrier between the music and their emotions, wonderful to see.
5:54 dang calm down. My woodwind friends felt that in their reeds.
🤣🤣🤣
Third degree burns.
Super effective on woodwinds.
my reeds burned into pieces
Reeding this was so kranji
every time we're running out of air , our mind goes blank hahahahah
"Woodwinds just can't memorize."
Me, a saxophone player, about to argue, but then realizing that I haven't been able to memorize the music for my field show for the past 3 years: "Yeah, you right."
The performance using catgut strings and the older bow really resonated with me. I really liked the personality put into the music 🤗🤗🤗
Janine's Bach interpretation brought tears to my eyes - a sapping of hope - an acceptance of fate.
"1962! None of you were born- Ok some of you guys are"
Damn, I feel called out now
Just Some Guy without a Mustache Although most of their fans are under 25 they shouldn’t forget us. We have the money to buy their apparel. :)
My mom wasn’t even born in 1962 😂😂
Hey Twoset! I was born in 1948. My granddaughter got me into watching you. Now I'm a subscriber and subsidize her apparel purchases. Just sayin'.
Susan Blonsky Omg, this is so wholesome ❤️❤️❤️ YESS.
@@xandraxandra1437 LOL! True!
Remember though, early recording was done through a giant metal trumpet thing, and it couldn't pick up the nuance in sounds. That could be one reason why that dude was pumping out the Meditation. If he played gently, the notes would probably disappear completely!
That's true
By the 1960s the old wax cylinders were no longer used. Listen to a recording of Joachim or Ysaye, who actually did have to play inside a horn. The recording quality was infinitely worse than what Elman would have faced.
Errr, not in the 50s or 60s they didn't. You must be a youngster LOL.
Microphones were used starting in the early 1930s or even late 20s, so with a recording from the 50s this definitely isn't an issue.
That old piece of film looked & sounded like it hadn’t been stored properly & had experienced signal degradation as a result. I’ve seen/heard colour film from the 1930s that was in better condition than that. 🎞
As a cellist this is an interesting subject. I find modern cello playing somewhat uninteresting most of the time, whereas the masters like Shafran, Rostropovich, du Pre, Tortellieri, Casals etc. have so distinctive and inspiring playing. Love also Mischa Maisky and Yo-Yo Ma. I don't know why exactly. When listening to more recent cellists, they have excellent technique and clarity, everything is fine, but somehow their performances do not leave an impression. Listening to them live is a completely another story, but in recordings it's just hard to stand out, I'm afraid. Also I may be very ignorant of many great talents in the field.
Sometimes people copy the interpretation of older players. Case in point is Bach's cello suites. Listen to Paulo Beschi's take on baroque cello; it's very different from the older recordings.
As a jazz tubist and trombonist, there is that real emphasis on technical precision above all else that gives you lots of graduates with very similar sounds who are almost interchangeably anonymous, whereas with the old school players you can listen blind for 10 seconds and know who it is. The other thing I've noticed is that whenever you put people in a recording studio they hold back and play it safe. Their whole focus is on getting it down without any mistakes, but the same people in a live show respond to the audience's energy and go large and go loud and damn the torpedoes.
11:20 Mozart? 😂
Brett looks younger in recent videos. I'm not saying he looked old but now he looks like 18-20. Did he find some potion of the eternal youth?
The lack of regular haircuts at the moment?
he looks cute with his haircuts tho ;-;
Amazing what catching up on your sleep can do for you.
KatrinkaH86 Maybe cuz of his pop song! Lol 😅😇
@@Tubluer No kidding! I've been off work for 10 weeks now. I've been getting lots of sleep and to me I look 20 years younger.
This was so good to watch. As a non musician, to watch and hear as you guys enjoy the music and explain *why* one part hits different and *how* they achieve it was fascinating!! Please expand this series, do it with people who are experts at different instruments, because it's so FUN! Thanks for sharing your talents
I don’t know why this popped up in my feed but these guys are so excited about classical music that I actually became interested! Love what you’re doing, please keep doing it!
I know this is an old video but you guys have seriously reawakened my love for music. Your rhetoric is so elegant when describing each movement.
Imagine how confused someone new to their channel would be by the first minute of this video 😂
Appreciate this kind of video so much. I'm a beginner on the violin and the struggle is real. To hear Two Set talk about the music and explain what they hear (that I don't, yet) is like a master class. Appreciate also thoughtful comments. Too often the comments deteriorate into silly shipping and crushing. (Just my opinion, no hate.) This is one of my favorite Two Set videos in a long time.
Agree 100% :)
Absolutely. I'm not even learning violin, but it's still good to listen to them critique the old recordings.
Same! 👶🏻 🎻
Yes! I agree! I'm a beginner, and I love this kind of content. It's educational and entertaining, and I love them.
I would be considered ancient according to TwoSet, born in 1950!! and grew up with classical music.
I've played the piano since I was 10 and I do hear many of the things they are talking about. I've also got a good ear for pitch which is helpful. But I'm certain as you progress in your studies of the violin, you'll pick up on more of the subtleties that the boys are talking about. So much of musical "feelings" comes with time and, of course, practice!
I own and have listened to numerous recordings, from various times, of classical pieces and this was very interesting for me because it was actually a short span of musical time that they covered. At least for me it was! :-)
I have synesthesia so whenever you say “the color changes” I’m really confused for a second cause I’m like “well it’s still red to me...” but then I realize the context 😂
That's so cool!
I have it too but I see a warm dark blue for D major. The closest thing to red I see is B major, but even then it's more of a warm 🍑 than a true red.
I have a question haha. You literally see the color? Or is more like you "feel" the color? Im curious haha
@@nicofermr it’s sort of hard to describe haha i sort of feel the color in my minds eye-like you know when you’re trying to imagine something whilst lying in bed and you aren’t seeing it but you’re kinda feeling it? That’s the closest thing to it that I can sort of describe
@@nicofermr Hi. For me I often daydream or imagine things visually. When I here music in a certain key, the things I imagine are stained predominantly one color, like a color filter has been applied. I guess it works differently for different people.
Great vid. Slim.
I love how music progresses. Being able to pinpoint a time in history and show the differences in how we express music is a wild concept and I'm happy that you two are having so much fun teaching the world about this. Have a great day!
Thanks
Fascinating for one who started the violin in the mid-1950 and heard Menuhin, Milstein, Oistrakh, Ricci, and a VERY young Perlman. Style was passed down through the teachers - starting with the great mid-19th century ones. Remember, there was a long period when Bach, Vivaldi, Handel and others were hardly played, so there was a break in the tradition.
pmichael73 I love that you stand up for your age. All fans aren’t 25 or younger. Twoset have an active and big fan base and it’s all of us together who make this community so great.
Also, thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Wowww that's so cool. Did not know that. Why were those composers not in fashion? Man, gotta look up music history. Thanks for sharing your perspective
@@xandraxandra1437 That's a wonderful comment. I hope you have a great day.
Ricci was the first concert violinist I got to see in concert!
InTeReStInGlY they posted this on Bob Dylan's Birthday. "The Times They Are a Changing"
I have no idea what they're talking about but it's so fascinating and I love how in depth they always go in their videos I can't stop watching!!!
I love watching these two interact.
About 20 years ago I had the enormous pleasure to tour for a week with Janine Jansen with a large Dutch university orchestra. She was a rising star at that time. She was not only an amazing violinist, but also an amazing lovely open, funny and joyful person. On our last concert in the Concertgebouw (Amsterdam) I was the lucky dude (literally all dudes and most girls wanted that honor, we were all in love with her) who got to give her the flowers during the ovation. I recently refound the pictures of that accasion. Pleasantly surprised with seeing someone she knew instead of the normal Concertgebouw valet, all smiles, she spontaneously kissed me on both cheeks in front of 1000+ people. Dear memories. What a talent. What a lovely person.
Brett will be so jealous to hear that, I'm sure!
What a beautiful memory!
Sounds absolutely epic.
1:35 Brett: there's no more older school than 1950 because recording wasn't even invented
Reality: We have recordings of Rachmaninoff playing his concertos in the 1920s. By the 1950s there's already over a decade of colored movies, let alone sound recordings!
We also have recordings of the last castrato vocalist Alessandro Moreschi from 1902!!!
We have a wax cylinder of Brahms playing from the 1880s!
And treatises detailing playing style all the way back to early Renaissance Italy.
@@juliusseizure591 we have a recording of that guy singing a clair de la luna in 1850 also
me a pianist: forever grateful! -though I have read that Rachmaninoff was reluctant to record his music...
What I’m learning is that there is a level of enjoying classical music that you can only experience if you are classically trained.
You guys are so much fun nerding around and pushing my poor knowledge to new limits!
*"she has those moments of release, and yet she still gives you those juicy dissonant chords"*
fAMiLy FrIeNdLy
is this supposed to be a euphemism or something?
The cool thing about classical music, you can listen to the same piece played by different musicians and still get an entirely different song.
techn9cian09 *piece ;)
Even with the same musician two performances are not the same
xandra xandra yeah you right😂 but saying piece twice felt a bit inordinate. 🤷♂️
That happens with all music sorry to burst your bubble. Covers exist.
A recent favourite of mine is listening to the original Can't Take My Eyez Off You vs Joseph Vincent's.
Apparently portamento was probably a normal (and necessary) part of violin playing prior to Spohr's introduction of the chinrest, especially when shifting downward between positions.
In defense of the Elman recording, you can hear the very high compression in the recording, making the violin seem very up front like its shouting , so It does affect how we hear it now, compared to the better recording techniques and equipment of the 70s and later. The recording engineer has to adjust so that it can capture the violin as much as possible over the orchestra or piano, sometimes compromising volume differences of the instrument. Dynamic range of the recording equipment/microphones, during those times wasn't as good as today thus you hear the recording as violin shouting. Also during those days there was no amplification whatsoever, the artist had to really project the instrument across the concert hall. If you'll notice, the newer recordings you are viewing had a microphone or 2 dedicated to the solo instrument to help them project the instrument sound on top of the orchestra/piano. Its makes it easier for the artist/violinist to play and tone down their sound/volume to a more pleasant and more nuanced performance. With the advent of multi-channel recording in the late 60'x and early 70s, you can balance it out in post-prod too.
I think it was the recording in that one particular instance. Elman had recorded that piece in 1910s and it sounded nothing like that. Also it was at an age when Elmans playing had become a shadow of its former self
I find it really odd that classical music, a genre that depends for its popularity and survival almost entirely on works written by people born before the 20th century is also full of people who think very little of classical musicians from even just a few decades ago. The reason Elman's interpretation is so striking is that it is one.
it's cuz most people are today are imbeciles who can't tell great playing from bad playing
They said that classical music recordings start around 1950. Entirely wrong There are recordings of Joachim from 1903. Heifetz recorded as far back as 1911 while a kid in Russia.
@@nidurnevets That's true... but I don't think it's unfair to say that recording technology made a pretty significant leap in the 1950s. I listen to Szell-era Cleveland Orchestra stuff all the time and most of it sounds like it could have been recorded yesterday, but you go back even ten years and there's a dramatic difference. But still, right. There are Edison cylinders of classical music, obviously.
@@TheToughBaby I agree.
@@nidurnevets There's even a video on CZcams of Debussy playing Debussy - completely different than modern interpretations
Super interesting guys. Great video. I've encountered the same thing listening to 1970's recordings of early vocal music - imagine Palestrina with every singer doing a different vibrato...
dude, you are the best guitarist in the world for me
Omg, hi Josh. I love your work so much.
The seventies is when they really started to figure this out.
Oh I have heard it: the BBC singers.
My first music history paper in while an undergrad compared the recordings of J.S. Bach's b Minor Mass preformed on period instruments with "period correct" interpretations to modern recordings . The long and short of it was this; if you asked Bach, "In 250 years time people will be arguing on how to preform your music. Would you rather them argue and your music be rarely played, or should they just play it with the sensibilities of their time?". I stated then, and still believe, that he would say-"PLAY THE MUSIC! I do not care. JUST PLAY IT." I got an A-. Pretty happy with that.
I love how you fell silent when you played Maxim Vengerov's interpretation of Thais Meditation, apparently feeling and enjoying it!
I used to see 'intimidating' Brett but he looks more like kawaii Brett as time goes by and for Eddy, you look dandier (is that even a word 😂) nowadays and Im not even complaining at all...
I love when they're flexing their skills ❤
Dandier is the perfect choice of word.
ikr Brett's aging backwards
@@vathyashaum169 so true HAHAHAHA and so cute toooooooo~
@@vathyashaum169 that's actually exactly what it feels like
Bretty look like smol bebe n Edward look like kpop man
Funnily enough, performance practice with Bach on piano has undergone a similar evolution, but vibrato for damper pedal.
Hey Erik I didn’t know you watched twoset
Really? All I know is -- my teacher would murder me for abusing pedal, particularly in Baroque music. The only reason, she's told me over and over again, to use pedal in Baroque music, is to sustain a note. Never to cover your lack of scale practice. I choked.
@@emmyyang4339 that’s a solid approach. We should never use the pedal to cover up technical or musical problems. However, the mindset on baroque performance practice has started to shift in recent years.
I think the pedal can be use subtly in places to add resonance and for contrasting timbre. It’s a myth that Bach didn’t like resonance (one of his favorite instruments was the lute-harpsichord and I imagine the chapels of the day are as reverberate today as they were back then).
With all that in mind, I think it’s apropos to use pedal in Bach (to taste and never to cover up issues) for more than just sustaining notes that can’t be held otherwise.
@@ErikCPianoman yes, ofc, there are lots and lots of things pedal can be used for in Bach (I was referring a bit more to harpsichord music) but covering bad technique is not 'excusable'.
A little judicious use of the sustain pedal is where this apostate (me) is at.
5:05 unless you're ray chen
Past: the tip of the bow
Current: the frog of the bow
Future: the back of the bow