How to USE Improvisation as a Compositional Tool
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- čas přidán 26. 03. 2024
- Ever improvised something and thought "this seems a lot like that other thing I improvised...." In this video we'll talk about how to use improvisation as a tool for composition, and some techniques to make your improvisations more focused and easier to develop.
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One thing I find helpful when translating improvisation to composition is that if you do find that golden riff/melody/bass line/chord changes/etc, don’t treat as a thing you use one place in one song, then go wander for the next golden riff. Treat it as a motif, take bits of it, rework the bits to be a similar but different element somewhere else in the song or in another song entirely. If it’s that good, get the mileage out of it. And helps the music sound cohesive instead of a collection of interesting but fragmented riffs.
I'm reminded of a fun quote by Angus Young from AC/DC.
"I've heard people say we have 12 albums that all sound the same, ... they are wrong ... we have 14 albums that all sound the same!". - Angus Young.
- - -
I feel like its best to either repeat yourself or explore new areas ... in a controlled way.
3:00 Keyboard's easy to improvise on, but if someone's too not-motivated for that, and they're not a guitarist, either, then here's an option: audio to MIDI.
Sing into a microphone, record it in your DAW, and click "convert audio to MIDI". If your software doesn't have that, then get a software that does. Then, assign an instrument to that MIDI track, and clean it up if need be, and then overdub another vocal improvisation over that, and convert it to MIDI, and so on. So, you don't even need to be able to play an instrument. Or, you can pick one of the easier instruments, and learn enough.
By "easy", I mean a beginner can decide "I'll stick to the black keys" (pentatonic) or "I'll only use the white keys" (modes of the major scale)... and they can get started improvising right away. Whereas, on an instrument such as violin, a beginner has no chance - you'd need months before you could start improvising.
I didn't mean it's an easy instrument to master, obviously. You don't need to be anywhere near mastery in order to improvise on a piano keyboard, thank goodness.
Good video, BTW.
Improvisation is composition in real time. It's the first draft and the first draft is sometimes perfect. Just like when you talk, especially when you consider that the first language was probably song.
@3:14 When it comes to the tactile interaction with and physical playing of a sequencer, the Torso T-1 comes to mind.
Yes, don't bore everyone. Love DAW/computer-free exploring, by myself...don't even care about appeasing anyone else. Fire up the organs, synths, modular and go for it. Freedom. It's a personal journey. Stopped recording anything, unhooked all of that. Make a cocktail and go crazy.
Once again I would like to thank you for your generosity. These concepts really help. Cheers!
Something I’ve realized is that over time, as I have practiced the skills of slowly and intentionally composing things, it has helped me to “improvise within a form,” or give my improv more structure. I have a better sense of when to intentionally repeat myself, call back to a similar melodic motif, etc. - and not to say I’m the best at this, but I assume many of the masters of improvisation have developed an awareness of how to create structure and shape within their improv., whether they’re doing it intentionally or by intuition.
Re Traditional instruments: I could play the exact same melody on a synth guitar, keyboard, or wind synth, and I will play it slightly differently on each one by the inherent way you play them. There will always be a uniqueness with traditional instruments.
For personal projects/albums I always let a piece sit for a few days then listen/tweak then let sit again for a week or two and again revisit. If I still feel good about it after ignoring it for a while multiple times then I call it done. If not, I keep iterating on that process until I do feel good about it. I think those who say the best music is immediate haven't taken the time to go through that process and understand how much better it can be. Yes, sometimes you get a great piece of music quickly. But, in my experience, that is rare and anything you thought was good could be made even better by ignoring it for a while and then revisiting it.
thank you for making this video
5:56 I hardly disagree with limited sound statement. If you are limited to using ONLY direct sound then yes, but apply that to synths (no presets, knob tweaking, no effects).
I'm mainly guitarist but I also do a sound design. Just from playing I can get expressive (palm muting, picking technique and position change sound and texture). Pair it with effects and you have unlimited sounds. What I haven't seen mentioned around is to put guitar through sinfold or linfold distortion (like in SerumFX) and you won't be able to tell that's a guitar.
the vast, vast majority of my ideas come from improvisation. But like you say, I am aware that muscle memory often makes me gravitate to some of the same patterns, so the "editing" process (or "developing" as I would call it) is vital - as is playing and recording an idea, or section, or piece I'm writing many times so that I make all the mistakes I'm going to make and can hear when those mistakes actually suggest something to expand on. I always say, "the fingers go where they go and the ears know when they should go somewhere else." Sometimes though I'll deliberately try to improvise around ideas that aren't informed by muscle memory. On guitar this can be quite easy because you might think, "what if I improvise a rock riff around a double bend?", as I did on my track, "Christian Rock Band". I realised I'd never written a rock riff with a double bend in before, so it was instantly something new to play with.
You mention using a scale you're not familiar with. I don't know any scales (except C major), and I don't intentionally play in any scales (though i'm sure I'm probably just using the same one over and over). Anyway, I've been doing a series of random experiments, where I use random variables to suggest tempo, time signature - basically anything that requires a decision being made - and then try to work it into something I like. In my last one, one of the decisions was to randomly select a key to play in. So I was immediately using combinations of notes I wouldn't normally use. I felt it led me in some interesting directions once I got the notes under my fingers and the weird time signatures in my head.
Thanks for having a strong POV-it's helpful for me to see others who ponder similar ideas beyond just thinking and talking.
8:49 style is about iterations. Developing a consistency in the nuances of your vocabulary that are unique to you. But those iterations are always evolving. So improvisation fails when you repeat the same pattern because it’s boring.
Good conversation! I think your concluding thought lands on a good place: there is certainly space for improvisation, both in one's indiviual process as well as performative/recording - but be wary of positions that try to say to never refine ideas, or only improvisation is correct.
There are people I find who have truly romanticized the process of making music, and the creative process in general. They tend to promote an idea that creativity unfiltered is purest, and thus best, that the purpose of creativity is to reflect unintentional genius as an unadulterated good. The idea tha "expression" must never be filtered or re-worked, or improved, often strikes me as living in some sort of fairy tale. Even in our conversations, we regularly take back ideas or say things in ways we didn't mean, or have to pause and look for words or re-phrase our sentences. And we do it all exactly so our words can be more expressive of our intentions. I think miscommunication and frustration happens most when we don't take any time to refine our communication to reflect our real intended expression - and something similar is true in art of all sorts.
There can be great value in just creating whatever without refinement. But refusing to grow in planning, composition, or refinement is more a sign of creative immaturity in my experience.
Always learning more from your great vids, keep em coming dude
To be honest I rarely improvise, the moment I sit down on a piano I come up with a melodic idea. However I'm going to mitigate that via purchasing a piano.
My compositions are done pretty fast too, one of the reasons I am still not sure about the quality of my work...
I love reiterating on ideas on the basis that it allows me to see how I tackle the same theme, how much my composing skills have developed.
Music is a set of melodic and rhythmic patterns that we artists combine to create something familiar yet unique, sometimes returning to an already explored idea will lead you to find solutions you couldn't even imagine for example one year ago!
One of the best common-sense improv/composition lectures ever!!! You have reinforced decades of hunches and speculation in my loose composing process. I have come away from this with some new ideas as well, and now I'm looking forward to getting back into the flow with some refreshed energy! Thanks!!
I just ran across your channel. Holy cow...so much great insight. Thanks so much!
Beautiful explanation of the difference and the transistion from noodle to craft
This might be my favorite video from your channel. Absolutely spot-on. The bridge from improvising to composition is so fascinating a space to explore, and the challenge is by no means limited to music! Yes, it is “authentic” to sit down at the most basic instrument and just let it out. But it really is wonderful to take the best fruits of those endeavors and *compose*. Thank you again for the inspiration and for your excellent and authentic thoughts.
Thank you.
take this idea and use it for vocal and instrument recording.
on a track I'm working now, I used the daw to "sketch" the vocal. so far I have the timing and pitch that want. now for tone character and delivery and its good to go. being able to lay it down and hear it back rather than reheasing into the air has changed how I feel about recording as a whole of the better!
Spot on!
Miles Davis had some ideas on not getting stuck in one’s favorite sounds
Great work good sir
It is somewhat true that the less planned = the more honest. The harsh truth is that we are not _that_ original or interesting in the first place. Our unconscious can only grow so much until it reaches its limits. Yes, the unconscious _has_ limits - we are _finite_ beings, after all. So we _do_ need composition, writing down, ways of offloading the cognitive load, in order to come up with fresh ideas. There is no endless improvisation, selfsameness will spring forth.
Let me tell you a tale of two pieces =]
One is called “Tears Are Rivers and Rivers Are Tears”, found on Reincarnated Resurrection. It came about one evening about this time fourteen years ago. I was sitting in front of my Roland Fantom X8 [OG mind you] and was scrolling through presets and found one that “caught my ear”. I had an idea for what the left hand would do and I figured the right could meander around a particular key. With those conditions, I hit record and just played as long as I could without stopping. It ended up being eighteen straight minutes of this idea. In the past, if I ever did a continuous recording of being improvising on an instrument, I would just find bits that I liked or could be a solid idea and just work from that. But in this case, I was actually impressed that I could “hold my own” and make something with that much sustain. I think what helped was 1) I was in a kind of meditative state where I was just concentrating on keeping to that musical idea and not letting anything distract me, including and especially my edit/critic hat. It was pure expression in the best sense where it was tempered and not forced, free but not listless. And 2) I was going through a depression episode and what I was doing in some ways was a personal catharsis of letting out some subconscious angst. Aside from tasteful EQ after the fact (controlling those highs) and additional seconds of silence, what was released finally in 2018 was that very recording.
The other piece is “The golden light” section of “Morning” from City of Vices. In a nutshell, it was my attempt to do something like taqsim. I came up with a melodic theme that would recur and then the improvised melody in between. I did three efforts on those improvisations and they did get subsequently better because I listened to them critically and found ways to make them better. It came from doing two things. The first was being aware that I was using a keyboard to play an instrument like either a “guitar” or a “wind” instrument. Thus, I needed to consider the physical limitations of those instrument types and play accordingly. (This also minimises, even eliminates, the uncanniness that can arise when playing an instrument using another instrument.). The second element was making sure the improvisations tie back to the theme I had already established. In a nutshell, I took what notes I played for each four-bar section of the theme and could only play those every sixteen bars for the improvisation. Basically, I did a theme and variation using a certain note set, augmentation and arrangement. In the end, it sounded much more like an improvisation done by someone who was a master of that instrument rather than just endless noodling.
I bring up these two pieces because it shows how both improvisation and composition played a role, albeit utilised very differently. In one, I put myself into a moment, was pleased with the result on playback and left it alone as I felt “it was done”. In the other, I thought more deliberately to get myself to where I can satisfied with the end result.
(sigh) I need to lie down now 😆
The democratisation of computer controlled music making, which began in the early 1980s led a generation of untrained musicians into thinking it was ok to churn out (particularly) electronic dance music with the same components and many of those recordings are now regarded, by some, as priceless classics. The evolution of hardware and software is only now reaching the kind of sophistication whereby the musician can get that instant gratification from a simple idea and have the support to dissect and refine that idea, combine it with other similar components if she or he chooses, into something substantial.
Or, as is often the case, they can just hammer the hook as their predecessors had done. Good taste and good grammar need to be absorbed before it can be exploited for creative purposes. Even then, the finest technicians can still fall into the muscle memory trap you describe (from my experience, George Duke and Jean-Luc Ponty come to mind).
My experience is that improvisation on it's own will allways be to little in quality to me. To me this only works satisfying if I improvise on what I beforehand (may be years before) composed. For me it's the only way to progress in composing as well as improvising. I must confess that it has taken about 30 years before I started playing music which was not written down by me or someone else.
Would love to check out some of those synths. Stuck in VST world. 🫠
Improvisation can be so much more than repetition based on muscle memory. If it would be that simple the word Improvisation itself should not exist at all. Repetition is a great way to train your muscle memory but Improvisation is about something else. It's about creating music now and here. Inspired by now and here. It's about releasing the spirit and energy and let its sound fill the room. Knowledge, experience, muscle memory, theory etc can be handy vehicles and can also be obstacles. Please don't simplify things too early. There is so much more to learn ❤
"Not bore people? What's the point of THAT?!"
- Satie
" intentionality"
Love your channel man, question though. How do you know when you’re over-editing an idea?
Sometimes to the point when you loose the original feel of the initial idea?
it's probably then; when you lose the original feel. Unless the new feel is an improvement. And then, maybe you can use both.
7:43 but I guess a jazz musician has developed the skill to overcome muscle memory and flex nuanced muscles. Because they’re whole endeavour is to produce unique rhythmic melodic and harmonic ideas in the moment. Do you think that’s a different skill or approach compared to composers?
A t-shirt for each and every occasion.. 😋
I try to change shirts at least once per hour
And a haircut every third or fourth day?
Hello, lovely music and such a refreshing voice on composition . I have been a fan of the Proper People (it’s amazing how everything associated with them is always so spot on and tasteful, like your music).
I am working on an orchestration project under the working-title “abandoned”. It will be an homage to their wonderful videography. I was hoping to pass the word along to them and share the final product when complete. Purely a passion project based on admiration of the past and the abandoned explorers who unearth this for the rest of us.
All the best!
Dylan
Listen to and emulate more Shpongle!
Okay, improvisation is composing on the fly, but since it may not be repeatable or written, it can't be repeated by anyone else who only reads music. All my compositions for piano are memorized, none are written down, but are played by me identically each time. All my compositions for synth orchestration are "improvised", but well-practiced for a week before recording. I already know how to play the improv, but let myself deep into creativity while improving with the record button lit. So you could say the verse and choruses of my improve synth orchestrations are solid but allow myself to go off into solo land occasionally. Then once recorded, cemented in history as is forever. Could I repeat it precisely...no.
Talking bout improvisation: the part betweeb 2:11 and 2:18 is exactly the same like in a very brilliant song about homophobia from a quite famous Indie Band in Germany:
m.czcams.com/video/-qOg8E4Tzto/video.html
Jazz musician here, with a background in classical piano and synth dabbling. I'm pretty sure when you use the word Improvisation you mean something completely different to what I (and most Jazz musicians I admire) understand the word to mean. Can I encourage you to listen to more Jazz improvisers and try to wrestle with what they are doing? you might be surprised and find it illuminating for your own process. best wishes
Dont tell me the truth! I cant handle it …
I think this approach of fleshing out melodic/harmonic part first is a bit overused in modern music production and most of our tools including electronic equipment are very much centered around that diatonic scales/chords and harmonization stuff. It would be more interesting to try to flesh out dynamics/groove/rhythm/timbre when improvising and then just harmonize to the finished product. Maybe starting with improvisation and then making samples of more interesting parts, something like that. We need more tools for this kind of approach instead of that endless harmonic salad we keep reproducing. Harmonization was more or less solved before us in 18th century.
Agreed! You might be interested to know about the new support for microtonal music in Ableton Live 12 as well as MPE synthesizers like Osmose which lets you go beyond the traditional western musical tonal structure. Similarly, virtual instruments like Modartt Pianoteq can load alternative tunings which can put you in a whole different direction and reset your ears to listen for new harmonies. The potential is truly limitless now. There are musical ideas which were possible before now, but which were *much* more difficult to achieve in a practical sense. Check out the Samuel Andreyev Podcast and listen to the latest episode with Matt Sheeran.
One of the best if not the best youtube channel out there.. Love you man
I appreciate that!
"Development is the enemy of what is true and beautiful and shackles my creativity!" - Robert Schumann
"Oh God, please not that 'sonata' again. Hopefully the piano slides offstage and lands on me in the first couple of minutes." - Me
The obsession of "purity" in the source of music is an externalization/projection of the confused feelings that emerge when producing art under capitalism. Unconsciously people assign monetary values to their artistic expression, or will even pursue artistic expression significantly for the potential monetary gain. When you refine and think about musical idea that was improvised, suddenly you are making it "real" and forced to face these confused feelings, potentially left wondering why you were making music at all. I think it scares people who don't just want to make music for the sake of it, or those who put significant value of self worth into this unconscious value assignment behind whatever it is they are doing at that moment in life.
TLDR: "Purity" doesn't matter when creating art. If you are creating art, do it to express yourself, not to participate in some imaginary competition where your art is competing against all other art that has ever existed in the world, and you will be doing alright.
My two hour livestream every Saturday morning is totally improvised
I guess I owe my viewers an apology 🙁
Haha I still love improvisation
@@JamesonNathanJonesI have to... crap at everything else! 😆
"Promo SM" 😄
What I find surprising is that classically trained musicians are who tend to have an issue with a freedom of an improv (I'm sure i've seen a vid form Narhe Sol about this also) - you don't ever hear Cory Henry go "I have this Nautilus with 7000 presets. I hope my playing is not boring." ...Unless he keeps that s**t to himself 🤪
Improvisation is not boring to the receiver - it may bring up a whole volume of other feelings, mainly of unfamiliarity ranging from surprise to utter lack of understanding, but boredom highly unlikely. I think boredom on the performers' side is a sign of self-consciousness and/or impostor syndrome doubts, which may be justified as only a self knows how competent one is at playing an instrument.
IMO improvisation does not need to lead to an explicit exploration. I think this would be the demarkation between composing something new (thus exploring various themes) versus performing a known piece with an improv thrown in as it happens.
I don't think this video is about what the title says. But what do I know, I'm here for the synths - y'know, those things in the background, out of focus...
Happy cereals!
Jazzers might disagree.
In fact the most famous jazz improvisers like Coltrane or Davis or Parker were also very much into composition and they knew how to compositionally prepare to make their improvisations interesting.
@@AntonMochalin True. But they are rare. As I hear it, most jazz musos use a composition as a trivial distraction, just a framework on which they can show off their amazing chops for as long as possible until their audience starts throwing things at them.
@@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx idk, the jazz musicians I have met/seen were very intelligent people who would rather stay silent than play unnecessarily, the behaviour you describe sounds like 2nd year of studying jazz when one has learned some scales and chord progressions and some instrument technique but doesn't have much experience playing in a band. Because exhibiting what you just described in a band is a perfect way to get kicked from a band. However I can also guess you aren't very familiar with jazz music language so a lot of jazz perfomance sound to you unnecessary just like complex classical music sounds like harmonic vomit to someone not very familiar with classical music's language.
@@AntonMochalin Well, no... I have a music degree that included studying jazz, and I have studied classical music to a reasonably high level too. But still, I see jazzers doing what I described because the _improvisation_ is the thing, not the composition. And that's fine if that's your goal - I'm not knocking it, some people love it.
@@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx no I'm not a jazz musician and I do not consider jazz my favorite genre but my experience of listening to jazz both live and on recordings and playing a bit with jazz musicians is quite different from what you describe, they are almost always willing to listen to what happens in the overall performance and react to it. I'm actually not sure I've seen more responsiveness to performance in musicians of any other genre, I'd say musicians in other genres tend to be more self-occupied.
So many words, good acting, but no useful information. No offense, it’s more like “video essay”.
I usually just get in front of the TV with my guitar unplugged and start wailing away at fast scales all over the fretboard to practice various patterns to try and use for improvisation.