Music Theory that Composers ACTUALLY Use
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- čas přidán 15. 11. 2023
- Ah the question as old as CZcams itself: How much theory (or maybe which parts of theory) do you actually need to start writing music? Let's talk about it.
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Oh here's that free Composition Guide I referenced in the video: bit.ly/FREEcompositionguide
Theory isn't the problem, it's the people who treat it as "rules" rather than a mechanism for understanding. Had a few people over the years that were impossible to work with because they'd say "oh, you can't do that" every time we came up with something interesting.
See the thing that people with this take don’t seem to understand though is that unless you want to write formless, incoherent nonsense, music certainly DOES have rules. And our ears like those rules and seek them out. Sure, you can perhaps veer slightly from them, but at the end of the day you’re probably still not “breaking the rules” because it’s likely something that’s been done before. Music is a finite system. There are only so many combinations you can come up with. 🤷♂️
@@Heffalumpz not rules, information and guidance. The ear is the ultimate arbiter of what is right or wrong, not what someone wrote in a book (who was often talking about an entirely different genre or era). I find that the folks who won't step outside the key signature often produce the least interesting music.
Thank you for articulating what I planned to write, in a pithy, coherent way.
@@HeffalumpzAphex Twin begs to differ
Music Theory is Tools not Rules.
When I first found your channel I subbed because it was kindof quirky and awkward which I thought was unique to you in the music space. But now I stay because you are genuinely my favorite CZcamsr rn. Blending synthesis, modern production techniques, and music theory educations is no easy task I’m sure. Your personality is so down to earth and honestly, I browse through bumble every day hoping to meet someone like you.
my best piece of advice for new composers who are freakin out over theory & what it means & how to use it to maximize your potential:
you already know music theory. youre surrounded by music 1000% of your life from the moment youre born to the moment you die. its in your brain. you know what sounds good cause youve heard it forever over & over again. you dont need names & complexities to make good or better music. you just need your ears.
music theory is less for people to WRITE music, & more for people to analyze music that is already written. theory is less about what should i do next, & more about why somebody used something the way they did & utitlizing theory to explain that.
theory is very cool ! & fun to study. but the question of "how does theory make me a better writer?" is pretty bunk in my opinion.
write using your ears, not your brain, is my advice.
I'd only add that the more theory you know, the more you can understand why things work well or don't - in your music or in someone else's.
It doesn't mean that the theory is a hard law of composition, but it helps provide the categories and language to describe what your ear is hearing.
So, absolutely write what sounds good! And then maybe take a look at it and see if you can see why it sounds good to you, or what about it doesn't. It may not change the current composition, but it'll help you have a translatable tool for future music.
Separating the theory, like what the shape sounds like, and how intervals interact, etc., from the code, which is the naming scheme of these things, is important.
The code, notes, staff, scale and chord names, though actually very concise, can seem confusing and pointless when learning it.
When you hear of a great artist that says they don't know theory, they are actually telling us they don't know the code. It is impossible to make music without some understanding of the actual theory. Simply recognizing the sound of a G7 to a Cmajor is an understanding of music theory, and the greats know these feelings well.
The Well Tempered Clavier is some wonderful "applied theory" one can listen to over and over again. (... if one hasn't played it to death during the course of musical education)
a few weeks ago I started a reddit thread about how people think about form in techno and got some interesting conversations going. Some people clearly never think about it at all, others are kinda/sorta aware of it but think more in terms of arrangement, but I think it's one of the most important things and why so many new producers get stuck in the "loop" phase and never finish tracks.
Another great video. I really like where you are going with your channel. I like gear videos as much as the next guy, but what are we doing with all this gear once we have the thing, or what about just learning the thing you already have? Or just learning to make music? Love it, keep it up!
Much appreciated!
Man your videos are amazing, clear and simple conceptos, ideas, and explanations for someone like me who is starting to take music a bit serious and needs practicality
Very interesting matey, always enjoy your content
Thank u! Awesome video!!
I'm hijacking this video thread, but I've been listening to your new EP and wow. I've listened to "Tides" over and over ... to help me learn more about composition but also just enjoying it. The sound design along with the sparseness and contrast between the background and melody all works so well together to really pull you in emotionally. Great work!
Wow, thank you!
I’m new to your channel and I feel like I finally found what I’ve needed in my musical journey in this moment of time. Thank you!
I watch your videos while I am working and take notes. Some of the only theory stuff that has resonated with me.
🙏🙏
super inspiring! thank you!
Excellent video. Thank you 😊
Great Video! I have been a profesional composer for over twenty years and I can talk about the intervallic values of scale modalities all day but my mind just cant put those ideas into my hands. I switched to piano from guitar 10 years ago as i discovered it covered more ground and after all this time and work I can still be seen staring at my piano like its an alien abacus chock full of the secrets of the universe that I just can’t seem to unlock. Its good to be reminded. Go to root, start a new. Trust your instincts and trust the giants that came before me that did ALL the heavy lifting. Thanks man!
great soundtrack thx for this video
Beautiful work i think this helped alot to validate many ways i see musical concepts being a scale dude
You’re a fantastic and inspiring teacher!
Thank you!
Great video. That waltz in G minor was talking to me. I played that part of the video several times over at various speeds. Very lovely and plush.
Howdy, stumbled into your channel through a Reddit post...and as a older guy, trying to learn to play guitar I found your lesson very helpful...so thanks. All too many CZcams guitar "teachers" stay away from theory and just promise you to play 1000's of songs in 2 weeks time (yikes). I just want to learn to play and construct/compose my own music. Understanding and learning the mechanics of the instrument is an essential staring point and theory behind the music is key to make that fretboard (or keyboard) work.
Great video. Thanks.
Waltz in G minor is just wonderful!
Great video. I believe that the things you mention that should be practiced (scales, chords (with inversions) and arpegios) in combination with the basic theory that supports this training helps a lot in composition. Comming from a guitar background, I find it so much easier to grasp and use the concepts on a keyboard where you see the relations between tones and chords in a clear way. I totally agree that the scale training helps a lot in finding new interesting melodies (and chords) when you start moving away from the things you have learned. Thanks a lot for you good work!
Thank you!
Don't learn theory because you feel like you need it.
Learn theory because you love it.
Very nice chord 🖤🖤🖤
Great vid! Doing WORK is everything. Whether its music or something else. No one wants to do it, which makes it valuable. Indeed, (especially in these current LAZY times) work is the rarest most valuable thing.
"fresh" chords. Unironically love it.
This is so right on.
Thanks! I am learning music theory slowly but I am glad I am working on a becoming a better musician.
Your videos reliably make me want to jump on the piano and create some stuff 🍻
Best comment I’ve gotten 🙌
I guess it depends doesn't it? We aren't trying to make a certain kind of music we are trying to make music. There is lots of music that requires knowing a lot of theory like jazz. Then there's lots of music that doesn't require much theory at all. But thats a good thing because it all contributes to different kinds of music, not some particular kind that we can generally say is just "good music" or the "right way" to make music. In fact by definition there are styles of music out there that require an understanding of theory, we can just define it as that if we want. Maybe it isn't yours or most peoples favorite music but it is music that is different from other kinds of music. Which of course is a good thing in that it adds to the diversity of sound we call music.
I think the most important thing is knowing what you want to achieve and then having an accurate understanding of what tools will get you to that goal. If you want to play jazz and become a part of that community find the resources that will get you there, a lot of that will be learning theory, but if you want to make movie music, or be in an indie rock band or even just make as much money as possible with music there are different resources for all of those things and its in your best interest to find the resources that will help you achieve what you want to achieve. This is where we can say, in general, knowing the names of a bunch of fancy chords just isn't going to help anyone achieve most of their music goals. But fortunately there are things we can do instead that will actually help us and that is where are focus should be.
8:39 Achingly beautiful playing. Thank you.
Thank you!
Thank you for helping me realise I'm not crazy. Been classically trained for over 3 decades and when I started this production journey fairly recently I started seeing these videos with all these random chord names I never heard of. Now, I don't remember all the theory I learnt as a kid but all these "musical theory" vids made me think I knew nothing at all. Can also tell those pushing the Gm9inverted5th chords were pushing something they read somewhere and think it sounds important.
That knowledge can be interesting when analysing compositions or creating some, but it's really not necessary in this space.
On the flip side, there's tutorials out there where they just draw notes on the piano roll, duplicate, move a note up a "semitone" and compose that way, and it's obvious they have no idea what they're doing but they don't care.
thank you so much for this i swear it's exactly what's been confusing me this whole time
I ended up buying a Moog matriarch because of your vids on it, I am really pleased with it.
Great synth. Congrats!
This is a really useful video, full of good advice. There's an inaccuracy I want to point out, for its belief might close people off from their potential. But it doesn't change the practical advice in this video, so in THAT sense it's insignificant...
12:30 or so, and afterwards. You can't plan for it or force it, but some of the best artistic ideas DO arrive in complete form, without any trial and error needed. Out of my favorite music I've made, one came that way. I dreamed playing the song, and then played it IRL a while later, and didn't even know it until listening back the next day. And then it was funny, like oh there's that tune from the dream. There was no need to edit, except I pressed stop on my recorder, and started a new track, apparently. But other than that technical issue, no need for editing. Pressing stop snapped me out of a trance, and it took a moment to know how to press stop and rewind, and then press record and play, and that it would start a new track on its own, not erase anything. Then, after a moment, I was gone again.
But that doesn't happen often. Another one of my favs started by improvising, like usual, but then I had to put it together like a ransom note in an old movie, and my improvs were a stack of newspapers. Trial and error, like you say it always is. That's still one of my favorite tunes I've made. And you can't exactly plan to just sit there and have a track come to you in whole cloth. So, the practical advice in this video is indeed the way to go, but be open to lightning in a bottle as a rare possibility. I've had lyrics come, too, where I could hear everything, and not while in a trance, so I could write them down (if you get something like that, all at once, try to write down the lyrics. Don't worry about trying to write the melody and chords and rhythm - the lyrics will bring those back. The process of writing, and even verbalizing, to a lesser degree, kind of disconnects you from that source, so I try not to write or talk prematurely. There's a balance between making sure you get everything, without forgetting the earliest bits)
But anyway, yes that can happen to normal people, and when it doesn't always happen, trial and error is the usual way. A lot of my musical habits, used in less inspired improvs (which are the vast majority) come directly from stuff that came out subconsciously in those inspired moments. I think these "music theory advice" videos, even if you don't practice them consciously (and especially if you do) will inform those inspired moments, and then seep into your regular playing that way. At least, that's how it seems to work, for me.
Some of the best famous songs were created that way too - they came to the artist in pretty much complete chunks, if not the entire song form, all together - words, melody, harmony, rhythm, arrangement, the "sound" (production and fx). I thought I should mention this phenomenon, because the process outlined in the latter half of this video is exactly the type of groundwork you'd lay, if you wanted to provide fertile conditions... if you have any repressed musical urges, it gives them clearance for take-off, so to speak🤣. And then you gotta get out of the way. I think that's why writing and talking cuts you off momentarily... I'd like to be able to pay half attention to each - inspiration and cognition. I can divide attention between ordinary perception and cognition, but subconscious inspiration and conscious cognition seem to run on the same BMC in the Fantom that is my mind. Has anyone here tried to mux them by interleaving, without losing your frame of reference entirely? I could try different psychedelics, but I'd be more likely to end up in a drool puddle, or worse, in the grocery aisle with the planters and the mauna loa
I don’t disagree, but I would classify that as improvisation rather than composition. I love improvisation too, and it’s an absolutely wonderful thing when it all comes together in the moment. Sometimes the best thing you can do is leave it alone. 👍
The advent of sampling has introduced the "Found object" into the mainstream of popular music making. It is possible, for a couple of generations, for the refreshing things that leap out of this phenomenon to be sufficient for a while as a starting point for composition and some great music continues to rely heavily on abstract colliding components hammered together with a backbeat by strong willed constructors.
What it means to know what to do when that momentum runs out is composition. To paraphrase what you so rightly say: Thinking about what you've got and what to do next.
It's what jamming musicians have always done, you work up a bit of momentum with a beat or a tune and look around for stuff to go with it. A bit of theory can spotlight something that's right under your nose but much better it han help you over a sticking point when, for instance, you'll have two ideas you want to weld together but they're sounding clunky. You need a way to make them stick. If you can spot where the two parts rub one another up the wrong way and change one or the other so they buffer up nicely, that's where having a bit of theory can be useful. A chord change, taking out a note that's wrong, maybe adding something to smooth between bits that disagree with each other.
I listen to Jameson, but when I hear "because" I think of Forrest Forrest.. Cool!
Also, a few hours ago I turned on the Nautilus & in 20 minutes (including looking for which old song slot I could initialize) I had laid an idea. Saved it & turned it off. Perhaps, when I hear it again, I may assess its use.
Awesome stuff - I totally agree. The grammatical theory is extremely helpful, just like learning the basics of grammar is extremely helpful for writing (despite all the claims that grammar doesn't matter).
I've long had a beef with my music education that we emphasized analytical theory but never showed how it was helpful for performance and/or composition - which is something I have to be conscious of now. But at the same time, it is liberating not really caring what the tone cluster I love is called, just seeing that it fits well into the scale I'm using or as a texture for my melody.
Theory exists because it is helpful. Learning analytical techniques is far more valuable than learning technically correct analysis, in my book. I don't care what you call the chord, but if you can see how and why it fits in the way that it does, you'll learn a lot about that musical language.
Absolutely 🙌
Sounds like a fair assessment. I think the grammatical aspect is most salient for sure especially if you're playing with others. For composition I rarely stop and think about it all that much. Maybe mostly when doing inversions or finding chord progressions that flow better. Simple stuff.
The more I'm thinking usually means the less I'm feeling it. And I do find it a turn off this fetishism of theory that seems to have exploded on CZcams in particular. I think you have the right balance as a musician, where you can fill your mind up with theory and it won't make your music bland. But a lot of people are not like you and get stuck in the analytics to the point of maybe being creatively better off with less theory. I'm probably one of those people knowing my OCD tendencies. Interesting topic!
I just heard a clinic with one of the world's leading jazz players. His approach while improvising was all about listening and reacting to the band and structuring the solo musically, like a real-time composer. He knew all the theory, and had spent countless hours trying out harmony and meodic lines on the piano and learning his instrument, but his secret was having worked on it so much he could forget about it and be liberated as a performer.
If you are looking immidiate mastery, music is not for you. The journey of discovery is beautiful, though!
Now I wonder, would people in early house have used paralel chords if they undestood theory "basics"? probably not, they would have sampled another "correct" chord, they would only have use a paralel chord if they were educated enough to know what a paralel chord is, OR EITHER not knowing that chord wasnt in key on the first place.
So you either study a lot, or you get guided by taste. Theres no difference in the resulting artwork, just in time investment.
Hi Nathan, another great video! Have you considered making a package where someone can get both your courses (the synthesis and the composition course) in a single bundle? I would be up for that if it were an option (at a discounted price than the cost of buying each course separately). That's just an idea in case there are others in my position and considering both courses. Thanks and keep up the amazing work.
This was such a good idea I just did it :) www.jamesonnathanjones.com/composition-and-synthesis-bundle
incredible! thanks so much@@JamesonNathanJones
10:53 I do agree with you, but always begin with the concept of intervals, just after I explained what a chord and a scale is (to my students). I think learning intervals is totally overrated, and it is a shortcut to learn all the theory, build chords and scales by yourself (unlike for example a piano students that knows CEG is a C major chord, but don't know how to create a major chord by stacking the intervals "major third" and "perfect fifth").
As always, thank you for your insight !
Well, in my defense, I did add a disclaimer that I somehow wrote this video in reverse 😅
yep
I know this is an old (relative term I guess) video, but how do you feel about simply playing in C and transposing so the black keys are always accidentals?I am pretty good with theory but I'm a guitar/mandolin player, not a pianist, and it's been easy for me to play in simple keys and transpose once they're in the DAW
That waltz in G minor that you played was gorgeous. Did you write that?
Thank you! Yes it’s a new one.
I love it!@@JamesonNathanJones
Do you have sheet for your lovely waltz? 🥰
I like to imagine that this video was born out of frustration with r/musictheory. As always thanks for the awesome and more importantly ACTIONABLE advice. Love your channel dude
I can honestly say that I’ve never spent a moment of my life there 😂
But I do very much appreciate the kind words! 🙏
Just as in many disciplines it's a matter of Doxy vs. Praxis. Music has a doxy (music theory) and praxis (composition.) Both matter and work together, but ultimately what matters is your praxis. Not your doxy. If you've got enough doxy to get you by in your praxis, then great. If more doxy helps you improve your praxis, great. In the end the only thing people care about is your praxis.
Why doesn’t DAW’s have the piano roll with the piano on top?! lol
Alan Belkin has an excellent course of music theory because he's pragmatical: if you can't hear it, it is bullshit (he's more eloquent than this). He points out, that hearing has mostly universal rules, like the ability to hear the top and bottom parts of chords easier. This emphasizes voice-leading, that can go into cool "out of scale" harmonies, if the top and bottom parts move in an understandable, but out of scale way. Meanwhile strict, "number" based theories, which only focus in the notes in a chord, could produce weird, detached harmony progressions - even with less "modern" material. Jazz has the same problem. Once I really rolled my eyes when I had a question about connecting an E-minor section to an A-minor section convincingly in a rock song: the jazzist commenter suggested to do a "II-V-I" in the new key. But what if you had _no chords_ beforehand, but riffs made of single notes? If I start adding notes to make chords it would sound as a new section coming out of the blue between the two sections I wanted to connect.
The man, the myth, the mammoth
based
Everybody loves arpeggios.
Jazzy
Ab9 add 2 loool
cool theory joke 😂
😏
Thumbnail … That just looks like a C7(6)(9) … no Db I can see …
0:22 … That just looks like a Gmin7/C … no Ab I can see …
Naming/identifying seems pretty important when composing, to me.
And yet, here I am composing and not caring what about which label to slap on a chord.
Yes, I understood the point/very amusing, etc … … my only concern is that some people who would struggle to name those chords/fully understand, could be actively confused & discouraged from learning music theory by such things.
And naming/identifying chords *correctly* obviously facilitates efficiently considering the myriad possibilities that theoretical knowledge suggests to one that possesses it.
Knowledge/understanding is empowering … it could only ever stifle one’s creativity, if they themselves slavishly allow it to. jmho
This is a critique to music reviewers reviewing music. It goes from a c4 chord to a b minor chord, so unusual and they play it on their guitar as if a song is just chords. They are just bragging; I know how to recognize chords but to most people going drom a c4 to b minor says nothing
if you play synthesizers you do not need any knowledge of music to come out with something great its about what you feel is right bes example aphex twin, music rules were created by the church in the early times you can not play, example a B and and F together because that interval was from the devil ( what ?)and was deadly serious, Bjork will be dead right now ,if those rules where still today, sorry to say but you and I have a trauma abouth music theory, on the music school the show us like is something super complex with names and ridiculous obsolete whiting ways and they told us if we do not get the theory we will never be a musician, is not bad understand music theory but is not important we humans feel the rhythm and harmonies in the heart s obvious whish note combine and whish one do not just play them..ou can combine the ones that sound nice or you can combine the ones that sound ugly or dissonant is not important just do what feels right the theory you'll get it by instint or osmosis, if you what to play with other musician just learn mayor and minor chords ill take 30 min e only 3 notes nd plenty on you tube to see, but i insist is no need if you play alone with the daw or hardware synthesizers' grand son has 6 years old NO
knowledge at all and come in the studio and play noises and beats for hours run arpeggios ,beats melodies chords that he invent etc he sound great well have 6 years only i have teach nothing to him all alone pushing buttons. you are a musician if you whant is inside us, just be free
You need zero theory…. Weeeee….
Not giving value to theory and composition, "helps" people and companies promote plugins , tools and other utilities as magic solutions gor writing the next big hit. Too much attention is given in eq, compression, reverb , delay etc and not in actual composition of a track. Just look how crap the pop music has become, to realise what is actually going on in the music industry.
I can read notation just a bit and very slowly. Please use a piano roll. Thanks. -The rest of the world. :)
It is ignorant to think knowing music theory locks you into musical limitation.
Music theory is a theory not a law. It is a dictionary to know a name what other musicians gave to a particular musical thing. It is a tool to communicate with other musicians. Musicians explored the vast musical space. It is a knowledge that tries to understand WHY that thing worked.
It is not required to know any musical theory to make music but the more tricks you know the more tricks you can pull out of your hat.
Those that repel idea of learning theory are limited to the same problems - using same tricks that works or used to same tricks. The only ones that are free are those that continues to learn new tricks and explore, but that is not related to theory knowledge.
not an abadd2/C tho, more like C7sus sorry...
"Why do we need to practice chords when we don't actually use chords in music?" Sayyyy WHATTTT ?????? So, now music (every single type) is created without chords in it? This was a thoughtful question to you from mike? What exactly are you trying to say by agreeing with such a statement?
And i'm not speaking of traditional chords. There are chord/interval progressions almost everywhere; even if these chords, traditional or not, are built from custom scales... which Zimmerman does a lot of -as a popular example. I know you know this, i just don't understand what you are trying to get at in this video? You gloss over such a wide filed within a few minutes, and i can't figure out what 'exactly you are trying to say to your audience of people w/o music education backgrounds.
Dude, be careful with what you're telling people, on your channel, who do not have any music education skill/experience.
He’s referring to piano technique specifically. Relax.
@@JamesonNathanJonesI IT"S in YOUR video. Specifically. "WE DO NOT SEE CHORDS IN MUSIC"... You said nothing of technique.
Are we, your audience, gifted with some innate knowledge of things you know, yet don't speak of? But hey, i'm relaxed, however, you could try working a bit harder with your video's drivel.
Sorry, Mr. Relax, bad writing is dangerous!, and you're obviously sensitive to it since you know it's exactly what you did...bad writing...bad video...bad content.
@@rm3950 Some videos are for in-depth instruction. Some videos are to raise awareness of issues some people haven’t yet considered. Your inability to understand this is not a failing of the video.
I only responded because you attacked another commenter rudely and unnecessarily. Otherwise I simply would’ve ignored you, as I will resume after this response.
Also, the original commenter said “scales” not “chords.” I referred to scales, chords (cadences), and arpeggios grouped together as core fundamentals of piano technique. They are.
If you don’t like my videos, go find someone you do like. Why continue wasting your time here? Bizarre.
@@JamesonNathanJones Wow, dude, why don't you just realize that it's not me. YOU ARE the one that said "WE DO NOT SEE CHORDS IN MUSIC. You said NOTHING of all this that you just tried to explain your bad writing with. Own up to it like an adult. After all, what you said is there for all to hear.
Pro musicians use their ear. Next video please...
I learned some theory around how chords + scales. I also start to relearn how to read standard musical notation again bc I forget where alot of the notes are sadly.
But its hard to learn bc rarely use it , wish knew how read for playing some classical music on Guitar.
But that said did find learning of Jazz chord progression to be go way to understand theory particularly for guitar bc use lots of shell voicings, rootless chords, colourful extensions e.g. Maj9(without major 3rd).