Cormac McCarthy VS Jordan Peterson
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- čas přidán 2. 12. 2023
- Who can change your life more, Cormac McCarthy or Jordan Peterson? Does psychology and politics impact the world more than the story? Two maven leaders of the 21st century lit bro movement are Cormac McCarthy and Jordan Benzo Peterson. Without them, we'd be a disorganized mess of nothing but orgone and malignant schizophrenia. However, which one can help you transcend being a lit bro forever (not that I'd ever advocate for that...)
ceo of benzos 😂😂
Hey, he shouldn't be scared of that labeling. He could say "I popped more Xans than Heath Ledger and still beat Cathy Newman in a debate" The Zizek debate could be relabeled as "Coked Lacanian VS Jungian Benzonite" lmao
@@WriteConscious man Zizek is a high level Charlatan and Jordan a quack
Sheesh I hate to be the only one defending Peterson here but I was sure he got prescribed benzos from a medical issue and then couldn’t get off of them. Idk someone correct me if
Oooh very interesting topic. Feels like Cormac stared down the abyss and came back from it, bringing us profound philosophy and great stories.
Jordan stared down the abyss and become the CEO of Benzos. However, I still take what he says on a case by case basis and give him credit when he deserves it, though that’s increasingly rare
For sure! He is still very fun to listen to when it's on a topic he's really into!
enjoying the channel, thank you for all the vids
"Blood Meridian" - the Great American Novel. Jordan Peterson - a brilliant man fighting a good fight against secular, nihilistic lunacy. Robert Bly - his translation of Rilke's "The Panther" is extraordinarily moving.
Good thoughts. I just hope that Peterson returns to his strengths.
I miss pre-benzo jbp so much but the post-benzo poem tweets do get my sides hurting
hahaha
LMAO. I was the one that left the “misguided comment” remnant rider was referring to. I’ve got my notifications turned off so didn’t see any of this until now. Glad to have (indirectly) inspired this video though. My only point was that I wished we went back to looking to great works by great writers for meaning and direction rather than modern culture war influencers.
If anything, I think JP might agree with me on that point, as he’s always encouraging people to read Dostoyevsky.
😂
Nice video. I'm curious how do we know McCarthy read Schelling? Did he mention his name somewhere? I guess it connects to Jakob Böhme and his influence on Schelling.
People have looked at his bookshelves in old photos and seen books on German Idealism!
great channel great content but where did
you get your "write death poem" tshit?
I sell them! I also have long sleeves and hoodies.
shirtlore.com/products/write-death-poems-heavyweight-t-shirt
I like Peterson, and I like his biblical analysis. But I do agree his best stuff is his early college lectures and maps of meaning.
He's gotten a little weirder, with his association with daily wire and his wife and daughter put backing on the fame.
I'm not necessarily against what he does now, and Lord knows we need voices to fight the gender-race marxists, but his best work is in the past
Agreed, I like checking in and listening to him still and he is doing some good work on key issues. But, I feel like a lot of his great talent is being wasted. The gender stuff makes sense because he was a clinical psychologist and has better insight than random political pundits. But, when you're interviewing Benjamin Netanyahu that's a whole other dimension lol.
I’d be curious to know your thoughts on Hermann Hesse. He is another of my favorite novelists along with McCarthy and has the spiritual journey you mentioned as the crux of most of his works, and a lot of influence from the earlier German romantics
Love him! Always give my students Siddhartha to help them transition to more literary works.
Damien was central in my early life. Hesse being out of vogue says more about our time than his works.
@@hunter_lite me too. Agreed
Narcissus and Goldmund is damn good too@@WriteConscious
Please tell me that Death Poems shirt is available on the Write Conscious store.....
Yes, and I am launching an exclusive literature T-shirt website very very soon with 30+ designs all available in five different styles (streetwear, premium t-shirt, hoodie, tank tops, women's options) so watch for that!
Fuck yeah Ian looking forward to that. keep on that grind brother I will see you on that Macarthur Grant award list soon!!!@@WriteConscious
perhaps Lowry's Under The Volcano, where nature is indeed like a character in the novel, is another more modern precursor to CM's 'post-modernist naturalism' than the german idealists. Anyway when i read CM's treatment of nature in Blood Meridian it certainly made me think back on UTV, and the imperturbable role nature played in the destiny of its characters.
I really dig where you;re coming from, and going to, in this podcast. As someone who, like you, has paid a lot of attention to Wittgenstein and Peterson, , not to mention all the other sources (Zen, McCarthy, eal) I really enjoy the real-life clarification you utter here
Thanks for the kind words brotha! The journey continues!
I learned of McCarthy via the film No Country for Old Men, and read the book shortly thereafter. Then I saw Child of God, and the read the book. Going to get to the library the next chance I get. Thank you sir.
Have fun!
I feel like im on benzos everytime i just look at JP and his suits. 💊🤤
Jordan Peterson is helpful within the confines of modern self improvement, though he's not exceptional in that area you could do worse. Unfortunately as a public intellectual, he's put himself in the untenable position of having to form an opinion on every "current thing" and not being a God tier polymath. It's not his fault that he is incapable, but he doesn't have the modesty to take a step back and "stay in his lane" to use a hateful phrase.
You mentioned this briefly, but it't worth emphasizing that one of most lovely parts about great literature is that it's an organic medium and reflects life in that way. Our hopes and fears, desires and imaginations, the world in our mind and the entire universe, all get mixed into a world we can construct in our head. We can feel it breath.
Literature is a magical art form and Cormac is in rarefied air as one of its best practitioners. Political commentators do not perform a task that allows for the same quality of insight, and we are poorer for it.
Beautiful comment! You could do much worse lol
Great work, love that you pick apart JBP. A drug addicted guy who is obsessed with the ''tRolL DeMOns''. Pretty much could fit into any druggie's profile, delusions, hysteria etc. But as a small note I would love if you stepped outside your (tough niche for sure) thing and read and talk about some other literature. I recommend (as my name states) Yukio Mishima ofc, but also if you wan't gritty writing Louis Ferdinand Céline. And if you want something modern then perhaps Michel Houellbecq! But, good luck anyways! If there is something more you could do about Cormac, I think perhaps it could be the (for me who has read both) quite obvious connection with the German philosopher Oswald Spengler. The judge seems to be some extreme, degenerated and demonic version of him, and as I know CMA read German philosophy I can not, not look away from the fact that the titles match pretty much perfectly: Spenglers magnum opus ''The Decline of the West'' and McCarthy's ''The Evening Redness in the West''.
All the best!
McCarthy loved Spengler!
Also if I can make a suggestion that could help your Blood Meridian travel trips:
Offer a service where someone tells you their problems, their philosophies, the books they’ve read. What knowledge is missing from their transformation? What should they be reading but aren’t? If there is a book that could plug the holes in your thinking, Ian just might know what it is.
You could assign books for them personally, maybe use it for content as well if you so please. Maybe charge $10-$20 for the recommendations, $50 (or whatever) for a whole video detailing where their thinking or introspection falls short and what works what would help them and others like them. Hell, I would pay for that.
This is honestly a really good idea!
I didn't see a video from you on this subject but it would be interesting maybe to discuss the difference in success vs praised. I mean the fact that Road is his most successful novel as it won a pulitzer prize and was turned into a film yet Blood Meridian is his most praised. And how the Road winning the award was controversal and still is I view it as for the fact I read it in highschool as my introduction to him and found it to be terrible and my opinion hasn't changed. And I'm sure other highschools were and still are in the same boat as me for there introduction. Its the same situation to Donna Tartt with Secret History and her winner. the Goldfinch Might make a great philosophical video on the literary pschye
czcams.com/video/yKvxZa_dUB8/video.html
This is the video you're looking for. In it, I talk about whether the community's perception of certain McCarthy novels is overrated or underrated. Funny enough, both "The Road" and "Blood Meridian" made the overrated category!
I think the reason Road became so popular was that Oprah had it as her Book Club pick.
@ratsplatigan for sure. He was also riding a massive wave from the NCFOM best picture which guaranteed his next release would be monster. However, I've been wondering what would have happened if he released "The Passenger" instead in 2007 lol.
Provocative stuff. I’ve definitely tuned out of JP, but I actually find his personal contradictions mildly interesting so it’s no surprise his reached the ends of existentialism.
They don’t spoil his previous message. If anything I’d say you have to admire his persistence.
I’m sure it was humiliating for him and actually life threatening .
I think it’s probably aged his facilities to put it politely, but it makes him more inspirational for how he has lived through his crisis publicly and has come out on the other side…Literally the right side.
Lmao
Incisive analysis and argument - ironically if we look to the actions of Christ, particularly his journeys into the Wilderness and his encounter with John the Baptist your thesis around nature being the place of transformation is born out. This is also echoed with Moses and the burning bush, Elijah in the cave in the Sinai after the triumph on Mount Carmel, and the apocalyptic visions of John in the island of Patmos.
You’re a CZcamsr who uses Shure sm57? Show us your guitar cabinet, harsh vocals, or snare drum.
lol
Cormac McCarthy is a God of writing in our epoch. The dude could not write a bad story if he tried. He is the James Joyce of our post-war time/culture. The only difference being that Cormac didn't like long sentences, or any punctuation other than a period.
Things are said and written. Let it be all. Any nuance or moral struggle or lesson is up to you.
One of the few if not only writers who expected their readers to be just as great as he himself was.
He let it all sing between the lines. Leave it to the rest of us to fuck it up.
Personally, I love winding readers up through any means I see fit, I love to confuse readers, I love to fuck people up the way the source material did to me. Cormac, however, a taciturn writer. No more than is necessary.
It leaves the moral and message in the hands of a reader. If there is any.
No comparison. McCarthy is a great writer who'll remind you life is hard, and Peterson is freak of the week. 😆
lol
@@ghostfacedude93 Nope. Peterson's the insult.
@@penelopegreenewoke
@@ubermensch_dadaista1797 Resting currently... 😁
Amen to that. I can't stand Petersen
The fact that you compared the two was hilarious 😂
I agree with you. But can we stop the narrative that he was "on drugs" already? He was prescibed benzos that fucked him up. He didn't seek to drug himself for fun or for escapism.
I hate to break it to you, but Valium/Xanax are very potent legal drugs he willingly took🤣 Jordan was a practicing psychologist for decades, and I'm 100% sure he knew the effects of Benzos because of his countless patients who were on it. He was also on Celexa (an SSRI) for two decades and, to this day, is on an unnamed psychological drug.
@@WriteConsciousAnd let's also bear in mind he ridiculed hunter biden for his drug problem, and called him weak... The man has no shame!
@WriteConscious wow...I didn't know any of this 😮
Ideological battle of the century, lol. Really enjoyed the nuance with this one! Thinking people clicked on this video expecting a Cormac McCarthy warrior to defend any position he took in anything he did in the entirety of his career, haha.
Ayeee! The man of the century is here! Hope you're doing good!
@@WriteConscious Doing well right now, you?
Well is an emotion that doesn't exist! Are you in person or online?
@@WriteConscious I'm attending an online school where I fast track my education, and receive a diploma by the end. I'm on track for graduating in June, meaning I'll still be 15 by then.
Damn!! That's crazy brotha. What after that??
Just discovered your Yt gig. Marvellous looking at Cormac McCarthy's ouerve. 🌵
Thanks!
Amazing start to my week. JBP is exactly a Ben Shapiro. And, like so many that go outside their strengths, he isn't good at it. People don't even listen to him any more. Since coming back, he's been talking to a Rightwing audience and his message - that he's stated a few times - has been, "People not trusting govt institutions are the biggest threat to the world today." He's telling RW people who are questioning institutions they are the biggest threat, and people love him and don't know :) Even after telling Brett Kavanaugh to resign to "restore confidence"in the Supreme court. People need much more nuance and messaging taught through art bc they can't even hear a man beating them over the head with weird messages they likely disagree with.
🤣
Ok, why are we comparing a great American novelist with a influential professor and clinical psychologist? It's apples and oranges.
Peterson couldn't hold Cormac's dust jacket!
This is grand.
My favorite thing about this channel and about your work Ian, and what I think is really important about what you do is your willingness to not get lost in any side of the culture war. And how you’re not afraid to come from a place of nuance. This is really rare and we need more of it. People need to stop basing their personalities and psychological well being on an adherence to heroes. “Take what you like and leave the rest” I adore McCarthy’s work but that doesn’t mean I go to bat for every aspect of his life. Peterson has no doubt helped a lot of people too, but their comes a point where you have to break away and live your own life and stopping “us”-ing so hard against “them.” We have to be willing to let go of our heroes (where necessary), disagree with them and allow ourselves to change.
Thanks for the kind words brotha!
Still on the benzo thing? Considering the fact of how common pill addiction is, should we not be happy when someone beats it? Good Lord, man
Benzo, Enzo, 'Rari, the pedal that's on my feet
The old adage that a broken clock is right twice a day could apply here. Peterson was correct in standing up to woke. Pretty much ends there. A talented clinician gets swept up in the waves of CZcams celebrity. Suddenly he is a super authority on any number of areas outside his sphere. Jordan presents as a Jungian agent but I suspect he's fortunate that Jung is not around to counter this. Jordan promotes a personal gnosticism far removed from most of us; he's much closer to Rudolph Steiner than Jung.
There is a genuine sadness to all this. Having a strong opinion on everything, excessive hand gesturing and gaudy apparel do not bode well for a CZcams trajectory.
For a second I thought you were talking about me in your last two lines. I am all of those things except gaudy apparel wearing lmao
Peterson displays a kind of bipolarity which was what first caught my attention: affable and pleasant on mainstream media and with celebrity hosts, Jordan turns petulant and contentious in general public/student exchanges. Think Joseph Campbell's evil twin.
Certainly not you WriteConscious. Cheers. @@WriteConscious
Holderlin went mad.
So did Jordan Peterson off dem benzos
You have earned a checkmark in the based column of my mental ledger with this banger of a vidya. Peterson has proven to be a total waste of a good PR opportunity. But it was his anemic showing at the “showdown” with zizek that really showed me how actually just not that bright a guy he is. Zizek is another highly overrated figure but for the left. They both seem to be acting as culverts, directing people of a certain cognitive threshold into endless eddies of inconsequentiality.
Good job.
Thanks!
This isn’t meant to be sarcastic but are you saying that McCarthy is great because he puts German Idealistic ideas in his stories? Is that what makes him profound?
One of twenty reasons or so. He is one of the few authors who learned to integrate Schelling's Naturphilosophie as a literary device. People love Cormac's "nature passages" for more then them being well-written.
Is McCarthy explicit in his use of Schelling in his literature? or is this yours/other scholars reading of McCarthy? I’m very new to Mccarthy’s literature and your explanations were pretty interesting.
Suttree ....best modern novel ever written.
don't hold back, bro. say what you mean.
i sent you my big novel ASTRONAUTS.. did you receive? take a look?
I did see it and read some. As stated in my About section on CZcams and my website, I don't take requests to read or talk about submitted books. Unless it has something to do with Cormac. But good luck with getting it published and releasing it. I like the concept and how it seems based on your experiences. I liked some of the scenes about him desiring a revitalization of his comedy career and the tension between that and him watching it fade away. Liked the commentary on Moby Dick too. made me laugh lol
I appreciate that.. please read more if you find the time.. huge cormac fan..@@WriteConscious
Peterson has not been the same since his drug addiction
Physician heal thyself!
Nobody knew JP was on the company payroll when he came out.
CM partied with JPs boss.
The comparison is....well....stupid.
lol
@@WriteConscious
(wasnt calling YOU stupid)
Bro, you did not do your research. Peterson did multiple talks about the importance of nature. You were the one skimming on it in this video, not him. I don't know how close you are to nature but I bet my work on nature reserves having to deal with baboons every day of my life and having a fence torn down by an elephant might have more of an understanding of nature than you. Or not understand but at least more life experience in it.
Don't get me wrong currently, his channel is more political and I do believe not so much the drugs but this consistent pressure put on him from political groups is causing it. Be it those who want to put him in jail or those who want to treat his words as law. I do not wish that lifestyle on anyone.
I also agree that being in touch with nature and understanding the raw beauty and horror of nature is fundamental for the human experience. Where I would disagree is your idea that there is a big flaw that came from cultures or nations that tried to follow the teachings of the Bible that have not been seen to a far greater degree by those that opposed it or even existed in isolation "the last 1500 years." We can see in culture, science, and wealth those people tend to have had a very dominant couple of years.
Another point you touched on is the impact of artists and their long-lasting legacy. This is true, that most of us will have a better idea of the artists are than the kings of their time. We should not keep popularity as the highest measurement of value brought from the past. There are many people we don't talk about often that had a larger impact but because there is little gratification we get from talking about them so they are not remembered by many they might be the reason we have tarred roads, clean water, and food on our tables. Not saying that is what you wanted to say it just seems like it was leaning towards that.
I've done extensive research and he's mentioned little to none of the axiomatic ideas of spiritual ecology, deep ecology, or the philosopical lineage that built them dating all the way back to Heraclitus.
@@WriteConscious what is your first result when you google Jordan Peterson and Heraclitus?
As my first result is an over hour long video. Not 1 I previously watched but I never claimed I have watched all?
I won't go as far as to say he is a spiritual ecologist as that is more of the realm of paganism.
I would say believing nature is the creator vs believing nature and us are both moldable creations of the Devine. That nature shapes us as we shape it.
Just because you both read the same material does not mean you both reach the same conclusion or put as much value in the ideas presented.
You can also check out his culture vs nature talks as it touches on why the character Judge hates the affect of culture and acts as a force of nature eroding the structure of culture.
I love your vids and am definitely not a Jordan Peterson fan but I don't think it's nice to make fun of him for his mental issues and drug addiction.
If McCarthy had been an alcoholic I doubt you would appreciate people calling him whiskey McCarthy or something like that.
I think he should have stayed on em! Super Jordan off a xan taking out feminists was wild! I couldn't care less if people labeled McCarthy that way. I'm actually sad people haven't labeled me LSD Ian yet :(
Any defense of JP is a defense of bigotry.
lol
Bro, you're out of your mind. The REASON he's focusing on politics and religion is specifically because those are the two fields required to invoke the social changes he sees necessary. How else would you suggest one go about combating the issues that are most effecting our world today? You're required to traverse the landscape where the actual problems exist. Personally? I will rarely sit through an entire episode because my attention span and mental discipline won't allow for it. But at the very least, it provides a little food for thought into subjects that would otherwise never enter my realm of thought.
1. This was horribly bad faith. You undermined yourself by calling Jordan Peterson 'Benzo'.
2. Jordan, I am certain, would agree (since it's what he teaches) that narrative is more likely to inspire life change than lecture.
3. Jordan is *probably* overall more impactful than Cormac since those who feel inspired by Jordan Peterson - if they actually listen to him - are thereby led to the realization of the power of story.
Jordan's whole thing is to point out the power of story, that others might engage with story not merely as entertainment but as life changing experiences.
You say that he has strayed from that core focus. You pointed to his CZcams thumbnails and titles as proof that he's no different from Tucker Carlson. You should try watching one of them with an open mind.
You'll find he's just as intent on pointing people to the power of story as you are, even in his most "political" discussions.
I have watched hundreds of hours of Jordan Peterson content. His angle is that he is a smart, rational Ph.D. He is in the same mosaic as Tucker, Candace, Ben, Sean Hannity, and that whole crew. His content since he got off the benzos (and most during it) is hollow, political, and repetitive. There are great and insightful moments, but most of those are repeats of stuff talked about in the pre-benzo content framed to fit the discussion. As i said in the video, if you want psychological content he isn't in the top 1000. If you want personal development content he isn't in the 1000. If you want religious content he isn't in the top 1000. If you want an intelligent, right-leaning psychologist to talk about politics because you're too lazy to get off CZcams and read actual specialists, then he is your man!
yeah.... jordan is superior to cormac mccarthy, way more deeper..... [sarcasm]
lol
Dude, you're throwing your arms around way too much.
I'll be more robotic next time! Just gotta get on some benzos and chillll outtttt a bittttt
The problem with Peterson is that I just can't take life advice from a man who cries more than a pregnant woman.
Lol. As I've stated to other people. In terms of his advice I don't see the appeal. If I need to clean my room and get stuff done there are countless personal development gurus who are better. If I want to discover the depths of psychology I've read hundreds who are better than Peterson. And, if I want to get into politics I'll look at the countless people who are more knowledgable.
@@WriteConsciousHe's the same as any other phony opportunistic grifter.. He has 1 good piece of advice that's puffed up by a bunch of obvious, self evident nonsense that he tries so hard to sell as profound.
I don’t really give a fuck about Jordan Peterson, but what did tearing him down for 15 minutes do for you?
literature >
Not recognizing Jordan Peterson as the right wing demagogue and grifter that he is is embarrassing.
Yup
An opportunist as well