I just got into run & gun competitions and was about to grab a Franklin trigger for a late Fathers day present but I am totally going for an Echo first. Thanks you sir for the info. I do appreciate it.
That is great. I have hear of others with piston uppers that run well. Adams also makes a lightweight bolt carrier if need to tune the upper with the binary trigger.
Too late, check out the legislation already submitted by Feinstein. Language so vague it could easily encompass any drop in trigger. Call your reps, now is the time to voice our collective concerns
You're absolutely right they are good enough to cut a record I know a Snappy tune when I hear one I play drums that guys is good got my attention I'm going to have to download that also I just purchase the echo generation 2 on opticsplanet and also saw a video where the a fella was able to decrease the trigger pressure down by 50% by just adding a little spring which I in turn immediately order all that today very few of you guys know what you're talking about and no how to present a guide to video 95% everyone else just talks as if they're blinded by bright headlights at night like a deer Freeze Frame anyway thanks
First loon that commits a mass shooting with this trigger system and it will go the way of the bumpstocks, but i will probably still get one and squirrel it away, very cool!
Not sure as all buffers and springs stock.Only have light strikes rarely all rifles broken in 500 + rounds happened 4 different separate times on one, only once on others but burns my butt every time. Have been oiling firing pin and bolt, was told by two local gun smiths recently to only lube bc not bolt or pin and haven't tried that yet. Told carbon sticks and builds up more to oiled bolt and f pin.Also told to try enhanced f pin.Thanks
I tried the nylon bushing modification to the new Echo 2 fire control group,but the size of the bushing was too big. I used the exact size you posted in video,but the nib on this new model must be slightly smaller than the original Echo. It bound up only allowing function in Echo mode. I guess I will have to mic it and find the proper bushing size one day, unless you feel like doing that and feeding that information back.Thanks, just wanted to let You and others know about this.
Pard, It would have been good to have a look and each BCG before hand. I would love to put an echo in a AR-10 and CMMG Mk 47 but wonder if the Bolt carriers will work!
All of the BCGs I tested are standard full auto AR-15 bolt carriers. The AR-10 would not work unless it is a new small frame AR-10. The Franklin Armory Gen 3 should work for you in both cases.
Hi Mike, I am a retired LEO. Money is tight, but if price was not a consideration would you pick up the Frankford or Fostech? I am leaning toward the Fostech. I understand the Fostech will run with the regular unmodified bolt carrier. This would mean less parts left in a drawer. Also I was thinking of having the (easy clean) Nickel Boron finish put on the bolt. What do you think?
Fostech also has the trigger block to prevent hammer follow. There is less fiddling around with the Fostech. I have both but if I was only going to have one it would be the Fostech because it has been more reliable.
@@MichaelBellmbell556 Thank you, what do you think of the Nickel Boron finished bolt carrier & coated bolt? I understand they clean up easy I have a NP3+ bolt It is also supposedly a great coating, but I do not think it cleans up as well as the Nickel Boron. Also what state are you in, I am in TN.
I thing the gen3 FA BFS would be the best choice since a standard hammer is used with this system. I don't have one personally. I can try the ECHO with one of my 9mm set ups.
Great video and very straight forward instructions. Well done! I just installed my first Echo II trigger today and will run it through its paces tomorrow. While performing function checks though- I noticed that the selector will rotate to the “safe” position even while the hammer is in the “fired” position. Additionally, the selector still allows blocking the rearward travel of the trigger after charging the BCG while the hammer is forward, as long as the selector is in the “safe” position. I hope that was clear! Is this normal operation?
It is normal for this trigger system to go on safe even it the hammer is not cocked. Yes what you describe is normal. Put the upper on and run thru the function test. You should be fine.
Awesome! Glad it’s normal. I took it to the range today and ran the hell out of it. Performed perfectly. Thank you for your time and sharing of knowledge.
What application do you see the binary triggers having outside of range novelties? I can think of one off the top of my head, though it is somewhat esoteric: the ability to get of 2 near simultaneous shots when hunting feral hogs. As a pest species here in the southern US, it's open season year round, and being able to put 2 rounds in very rapid succession would help ensure a kill with one manipulation of the trigger (press and release).
I have made use of mine in local tactical 2-gun competitions for doing controlled pairs on close range papers. Saves a few seconds across the whole course of fire but definitely have to be practiced with it and be used to manipulating it between semi and echo/binary modes of function.
What is meant when you say you have to "tune" your gun? New to the AR 15 platform. What is the best one to choose with the least mod's. I own a Sig 556/223 carbine
@@MichaelBellmbell556 Wow! Thanks for the reply on a 3 year old video. I may go with the fostech after watching. May buy one (AR) from them already installed
@@MichaelBellmbell556 only ever shot some friends full auto...but binary seems to have some good points...not all or nothing... the one two rate of fire is less than the 3 round burst position selector on a full auto.and I would figure the two rounds you do fire might be more accurate since the second round waits for you to move your trigger forward, the small delay might give you just what you need to recenter your target, especially if the target is a moving target...or instantly run off many rounds without having to change the selector from either semi auto or three round burst.. I see the option to detonate one or two or multiple rounds with just trigger management a good benefit...also interrupting a run would seem a bit easier jmo also more economical..more options...also move from one option to the next more conveniently...
@@MichaelBellmbell556 I'm willing to bet that the binary trigger system is more accurate than the full auto my meaning is that it would be more controllable shot placements with the binary trigger system !!!!
Awesome. Looking forward to it. There was a time SA had an issue with the out-of-spec BCG and I had to return my both BCGs for replacement. Although the replacement are working now, I’m still not sure if they are mil spec. Hope it’ll work with your IAR. Thank you sir.
I would recomend the ECHO over the BFS if you are using a piston system. The ECHO with the trigger block has not required "tuning" with different bolt carrier weights, buffer weights and spring powers to be reliable.
Are you sure you had hammer follow with that gen 2 echo? I didn't see you separate side to see but not sure that would tell what's going on. Also thought it should be impossible as the stopper can't allow it to happen. I have had same issue stoppage with gen 1 echo but I think it was light hammer strike as I seen the firing pin mark on primer then put round back in and it fired. I have had light primer strikes with all my AR 15s and am trying to figure solution now as it is frustrating. Happens no matter how good ammo even match grade on high end rifles.
I think it was bolt bounce and not hammer follow. Light primer strikes can be caused by hammer follow or bolt bounce. Is your rifle over gassed? What buffer are you using.
Mike, did you have any trouble transitioning to the echo 2 shot system over the full auto system? The reason I ask is because it seems (in my mind) to be counter intuitive for that second shot to come off on the trigger release? Did you have any difficulty managing this?
It takes getting used to. Going back and forth from the Franklin Armory BFS to Fostech ECHO is also difficult since one resets on pull and the other on release. Neither are full auto, you have to work at proper manipulation. In full auto the trigger is just a switch.
Between 3rd gen Franklin trigger and 2nd gen echo trigger, which one has a nicer pull? (On both semi and dual mode) I also heard people complaining about echo's short trigger digging into their finger, what are your thoughts on it?
As they come the Franklin is a little lighter. I am doing a spring mod on the Gen2 ECHO next week. It is supposed to make a big difference. The bushing mod and bolt carrier mod on the Gen1 ECHO made a huge difference.
Now my question is do these work on all AR platforms? For example AR-10 as the pins are spaced diffrent or can we expect one for those platforms as well in the near furture?
I've got an ECHO trigger on the way, intentions were to put it in a POF 415. After I ordered the trigger, I contacted Fostech, and POF to check if this might work. Fostech thought it might, POF thought it most likely wouldn't, stating "To our current knowledge, even with the updated gen 3 trigger allowing the use of a full auto BCG, they still haven't fixed the issue where their hammer is wider than mil-spec and doesn’t clear the interior of our bolt carrier group channel." Figured if anyone had seen this, would likely be you.
Will this work with piston based Ar15s like a Barrett REC7 s-s-piston system and PWS MK classic Ak type piston system? This is very important to know before buying it
I discus testing pistons at about 6 minutes and the field test starts at 6:34 in the video. I tested 2 different piston uppers that did not do well with the Franklin Armory BFS and both did well with the Gen2 ECHO.. I tested Wolf A1 and LWRC IC uppers. With these two pistons it did well so it should be fine with any piston upper that uses a FA bolt carrier. So NOT Ruger piston uppers, PWS yes and I don't have a Barrett, but if the bolt carrier is FA it should work.
I do not have one but PSA says drop in triggers will not fit. The Fostech has a trigger housing so I do not think that it will work, The Franlin Armory Gen3 should work but may need tuning with different buffer springs and buffer weights to minimize hammer follow.
I know your post is old, so this may be too late, My 6 year old Sig Sauer M400 16" has a semi-auto only bolt carrier group (BCG), which is cut back farther on the underside than a Mil-Spec Full Auto "compatible" BCG, so I don't expect it will work with the Echo II without changing the BCG to a full auto mil-spec BCG (about $160 from BCM or Fostech). Same with my DPMS 16" upper, and my Stag Arms 16" upper, so all of them would all need a new BCG for the Echo II (or I could just buy one that I swap around). Fortunately all of my SBR uppers have the proper BCG for my new Echo II. I was told by my gunsmith that the more recent build of AR-15 rifles typically have a Mil-Spec FA compatible BCG that works with an Echo II, but my 1 month old Sig Sauer 516 Gas Piston 16" upper still came with a semi-auto only BCG - being a gas piston upper it won't be easy/possible to change out the BCG. However, the Sig Sauer 10" Gas Piston upper that I bought for my Colt M4-LE SBR has the proper FA BCG (as does the original Colt direct impingement SBR upper). From what I have seen, the Franklin BFS III appears to work with any BCG, as long as you're willing to tune the buffer weight and springs to work 100%, or you can get the Echo II and a new BCG for your M400 if you have the wrong kind.
"Bad Money", written and performed by my son and his high school band. I gave credit at the end of the video. Band name is "Room 120". Available on itunes.
I like my echo, but I get a hammer follow about every other magazine. Wouldn’t be a big deal if they didn’t claim it was impossible. If I’d have known, I might have saved money and gone the binary route. Good video tho. Thanks.
Room 120. That was a band my son was in during high school. It is their original music. I credit it at the very end of the video. The song is "Bad Money". You can buy it on itunes or spotify. Original music written and performed by them. I paid for the recording. They have 4 songs they wrote that I thought were good enough to pay to have recorded and copyrighted.
@@MichaelBellmbell556 as a musician and songwriter myself, I was impressed by the music which is why I searched the comments knowing there would be a discussion about it. The guitar riff was awesome, great drums and the vocalist was good too. Very tight. The sounded young and energetic! Good stuff.
The differences I have found are the FA can be made to run a little faster if you match the upper, bolt carrier weight, buffer weight and recoil spring strength to minimize hammer follow. The ECHO is a little slower but runs in a wide variety of AR configurations with no tuning and no hammer follow. I will keep both the FA Gen2 ( I borrowed the Gen3 BFS) and the ECHO Gen3. I certainly think the FA BFS Gen 3 is a big improvement over the FA BFS Gen2 if you go with Franklin Armory. If you go with the FA BFS just be aware that you may have to tune the AR to run well with it. If you do not like fiddling and want to be able to plug and play with less fuss then the ECHO Gen 2 is a better match for you. I applaud both companies for their efforts. You can't go wrong with either as long as you understand the differences.
I have not tried it with a pistol upper. I am going out to test a product this afternoon. I'll take the ECHO with a Pistol upper and see. What is the barrel length and gas system length of your pistol?
This is an original song written and performed by my sons band of high school kids. It is available on Spotify and Itunes. Not bad for a bunch of kids.
no moreso than sub 3lbs triggers on hunting rifles as if one just wants a single shot you can do so even in echo mode , just hold the trigger to the rear and clock on the safety . As long as you're following all 4 rules Jeff Cooper set forth in regards to firearm safety they are no more dangerous than any other product.
Steve P You're probably a supporter of the Hughes Amendment? Anti gunners imply that average Americans aren't smart enough or moral enough or can't help themselves not to shoot everyone in a wild crime spree just because they have possession of machine guns. *How insulting!*
golf-n-guns Nope, machine guns are awesome. I feel that after many years of shooting "muscle memory" makes these triggers dangerous. For a new shooter, maybe not so much.
Another thorough, insightful, and educational video.
You're a natural teacher.
Thanks, doc!
Thanks!
You see what you did, now I may have to get one.
You can blame me when your wife finds out. I am good with that...LOL
Please don't stop making these videos. Thank you sir.
Thanks for watching. Getting ready to start up with video production. Lots of projects and products to review in the shop.
I just got into run & gun competitions and was about to grab a Franklin trigger for a late Fathers day present but I am totally going for an Echo first. Thanks you sir for the info. I do appreciate it.
Thanks for watching.
have a franklin with a adams arms upper never had a problem
That is great. I have hear of others with piston uppers that run well. Adams also makes a lightweight bolt carrier if need to tune the upper with the binary trigger.
Thank you for the review. I purchased a Patriot Ordnance Factory pistol today and was about to order the Franklin Armory trigger.
xChevy Toughx The BFS Gen 3 from Franklin is pretty sweet, I have one in my SP1 and haven’t had any problems with it.
I also run a fixed stock with rifle barrel buffer on a carbine. great video
Thanks for watching!
Awesome
Thanks!
Hey NRA and ATF.... Keep your hands off these triggers. One shot per finger manipulation. No tricks here. Not full auto. _Shall not be infringed._
Hear,hear.
Too late, check out the legislation already submitted by Feinstein. Language so vague it could easily encompass any drop in trigger. Call your reps, now is the time to voice our collective concerns
Just called both my Senators. Calling congressmen next.
You're absolutely right they are good enough to cut a record I know a Snappy tune when I hear one I play drums that guys is good got my attention I'm going to have to download that also I just purchase the echo generation 2 on opticsplanet and also saw a video where the a fella was able to decrease the trigger pressure down by 50% by just adding a little spring which I in turn immediately order all that today very few of you guys know what you're talking about and no how to present a guide to video 95% everyone else just talks as if they're blinded by bright headlights at night like a deer Freeze Frame anyway thanks
Yeah please!
I'd like to video very well spoken and professional awesome keep up the great work and very informative
Thank you. Please check out my channel if you get a chance.
First loon that commits a mass shooting with this trigger system and it will go the way of the bumpstocks, but i will probably still get one and squirrel it away, very cool!
Enjoyed the vids Mike, thanx.
Thanks.
Great and helpful video! Keep your good work!
Thank you.
Bad Money, room 120 i like this song.
Not bad for high school kids.
Got to get it and I'm 68 years old
Not sure as all buffers and springs stock.Only have light strikes rarely all rifles broken in 500 + rounds happened 4 different separate times on one, only once on others but burns my butt every time. Have been oiling firing pin and bolt, was told by two local gun smiths recently to only lube bc not bolt or pin and haven't tried that yet. Told carbon sticks and builds up more to oiled bolt and f pin.Also told to try enhanced f pin.Thanks
thx for the review
You are welcome. Check out the channel if you get a chance.
Michael Bell yup been subscribed for a long time
Thanks !!
Your video convinced me to buy one you should show this comment to fostech
Thanks!
Thank you for your knowledge Sir, I appreciate your replies!
You are welcome.
I tried the nylon bushing modification to the new Echo 2 fire control group,but the size of the bushing was too big. I used the exact size you posted in video,but the nib on this new model must be slightly smaller than the original Echo. It bound up only allowing function in Echo mode. I guess I will have to mic it and find the proper bushing size one day, unless you feel like doing that and feeding that information back.Thanks, just wanted to let You and others know about this.
Thanks for sharing that information.
How is it working 2 years later
Great.
I've been wondering if it would work with the wolf upper, because I'm thinking about getting one. Awesome video!!!
That was the best result of this review. I really like the Wolf A1 upper.
Michael Bell good to know, thanks. You've sold me on the echo, and probably the a1 upper.
Pard, It would have been good to have a look and each BCG before hand. I would love to put an echo in a AR-10 and CMMG Mk 47 but wonder if the Bolt carriers will work!
All of the BCGs I tested are standard full auto AR-15 bolt carriers. The AR-10 would not work unless it is a new small frame AR-10. The Franklin Armory Gen 3 should work for you in both cases.
So the length of the carrier would affect timing?
It is where the auto trip area on the carrier is. That is the part that interacts with the trigger block.
What's the weight of the trigger pull of the Fostech Echo Gen 2?
Check out my video for replacing the spring on the disconnector for a much improved trigger pull.
Hi Mike, I am a retired LEO. Money is tight, but if price was not a consideration would you pick up the Frankford or Fostech? I am leaning toward the Fostech. I understand the Fostech will run with the regular unmodified bolt carrier. This would mean less parts left in a drawer. Also I was thinking of having the (easy clean) Nickel Boron finish put on the bolt. What do you think?
Fostech also has the trigger block to prevent hammer follow. There is less fiddling around with the Fostech. I have both but if I was only going to have one it would be the Fostech because it has been more reliable.
@@MichaelBellmbell556 Thank you, what do you think of the Nickel Boron finished bolt carrier & coated bolt? I understand they clean up easy I have a NP3+ bolt It is also supposedly a great coating, but I do not think it cleans up as well as the Nickel Boron. Also what state are you in, I am in TN.
@@arlenewolf5260 I like them. Get EXO Nickel Boron like Fail Zero. Not all NB is the same.
@@MichaelBellmbell556 Thank you
@@arlenewolf5260 You are welcome.
hey Mr. Bell could you please do some videos on binary/echo triggers in 9mm AR's? not alot of info and many people seem to be having problems. thanks.
I thing the gen3 FA BFS would be the best choice since a standard hammer is used with this system. I don't have one personally. I can try the ECHO with one of my 9mm set ups.
Great video and very straight forward instructions. Well done! I just installed my first Echo II trigger today and will run it through its paces tomorrow. While performing function checks though- I noticed that the selector will rotate to the “safe” position even while the hammer is in the “fired” position. Additionally, the selector still allows blocking the rearward travel of the trigger after charging the BCG while the hammer is forward, as long as the selector is in the “safe” position. I hope that was clear! Is this normal operation?
It is normal for this trigger system to go on safe even it the hammer is not cocked. Yes what you describe is normal. Put the upper on and run thru the function test. You should be fine.
Awesome! Glad it’s normal. I took it to the range today and ran the hell out of it. Performed perfectly. Thank you for your time and sharing of knowledge.
Does a Ruger AR556 have a full auto bcg? Or how can you tell ? Just want to drop it in and go.
Google the difference
Are these binary trigger systems easy to drop in and what is the cost for one ?
Not as easy as standard. Covered in my videos.
What application do you see the binary triggers having outside of range novelties? I can think of one off the top of my head, though it is somewhat esoteric: the ability to get of 2 near simultaneous shots when hunting feral hogs. As a pest species here in the southern US, it's open season year round, and being able to put 2 rounds in very rapid succession would help ensure a kill with one manipulation of the trigger (press and release).
I went raccoon hunting with mine in a .22 and it was super effective. I hunt around a farm so using anything bigger isn't really safe.
The controlled pairs are the practical use of these triggers. The mag dumps are only for testing reliability and fun.
I have made use of mine in local tactical 2-gun competitions for doing controlled pairs on close range papers. Saves a few seconds across the whole course of fire but definitely have to be practiced with it and be used to manipulating it between semi and echo/binary modes of function.
What is meant when you say you have to "tune" your gun? New to the AR 15 platform. What is the best one to choose with the least mod's. I own a Sig 556/223 carbine
Tune is change the action spring or weight of the bolt carrier or buffer. ECHO requires no tuning in my testing.
@@MichaelBellmbell556 Wow! Thanks for the reply on a 3 year old video. I may go with the fostech after watching. May buy one (AR) from them already installed
@@jerrystunes No problem. Check out my channel if you get a chance and thanks for watching!
I looked at other comments before i asked, was wondering if you went back and tried the lwrc again. Since it was the only one that had a failure.
Yes. I think it might have been bolt bounce. It has been reliable.
the bnary is more to my liking than full auto
Full auto is easier and more fun, but a lot more costly.
@@MichaelBellmbell556
only ever shot some friends full auto...but binary seems to have some good points...not all or nothing... the one two rate of fire is less than the 3 round burst position selector on a full auto.and I would figure the two rounds you do fire might be more accurate since the second round waits for you to move your trigger forward, the small delay might give you just what you need to recenter your target, especially if the target is a moving target...or instantly run off many rounds without having to change the selector from either semi auto or three round burst..
I see the option to detonate one or two or multiple rounds with just trigger management a good benefit...also interrupting a run would seem a bit easier jmo
also more economical..more options...also move from one option to the next more conveniently...
@@MichaelBellmbell556 I'm willing to bet that the binary trigger system is more accurate than the full auto my meaning is that it would be more controllable shot placements with the binary trigger system !!!!
@@jeffreyelliott622 Like a two shot burst.
Awesome review Mike. Did you have chance to test this trigger on a Sup Arms piston upper?
No, but it works fine with LWRC and Wolf piston uppers. I am sure it would do well with the SA piston kits.
I will be testing it in my "IAR" build which does have the SA piston kit and I expect the trigger to work well with it.
Awesome. Looking forward to it. There was a time SA had an issue with the out-of-spec BCG and I had to return my both BCGs for replacement. Although the replacement are working now, I’m still not sure if they are mil spec. Hope it’ll work with your IAR. Thank you sir.
THX
So, does the Echo II work with an AR 15 bolt and carrier or do I need an M16 assembly? Thank you, love your videos!
M16 standard full auto bolt carrier works with the ECHO II model.
I'd really like your input on a 11.5 Adams arms piston system or any smaller barrel piston ar
The ECHO has run well with two different piston uppers. (Wolf and LWRC) . Both of these uppers had 16" barrels though.
I would recomend the ECHO over the BFS if you are using a piston system. The ECHO with the trigger block has not required "tuning" with different bolt carrier weights, buffer weights and spring powers to be reliable.
i love to watch your video quick question do you think it will work on Adams Arms pistol 11.5 inches P series?
I would think so. If you try it let us know.
It would be nice if it would work with cheaper ammo
mine does
Are you sure you had hammer follow with that gen 2 echo? I didn't see you separate side to see but not sure that would tell what's going on. Also thought it should be impossible as the stopper can't allow it to happen. I have had same issue stoppage with gen 1 echo but I think it was light hammer strike as I seen the firing pin mark on primer then put round back in and it fired. I have had light primer strikes with all my AR 15s and am trying to figure solution now as it is frustrating. Happens no matter how good ammo even match grade on high end rifles.
I think it was bolt bounce and not hammer follow. Light primer strikes can be caused by hammer follow or bolt bounce. Is your rifle over gassed? What buffer are you using.
Mike, did you have any trouble transitioning to the echo 2 shot system over the full auto system? The reason I ask is because it seems (in my mind) to be counter intuitive for that second shot to come off on the trigger release? Did you have any difficulty managing this?
It takes getting used to. Going back and forth from the Franklin Armory BFS to Fostech ECHO is also difficult since one resets on pull and the other on release. Neither are full auto, you have to work at proper manipulation. In full auto the trigger is just a switch.
First thank you for posting the video second do you think this would work with the sig mpx thank you
I do not think so.
I asked if these triggers would work in any ar15 and I have a sig m400
Yes they will.
Yes they will.
GTG stands for "good to go"
I replied to your reply. Is it the length of the carrier that affects timing or what?
It is where the auto trip area on the carrier is. That is the part that interacts with the trigger block.
Between 3rd gen Franklin trigger and 2nd gen echo trigger, which one has a nicer pull? (On both semi and dual mode) I also heard people complaining about echo's short trigger digging into their finger, what are your thoughts on it?
As they come the Franklin is a little lighter. I am doing a spring mod on the Gen2 ECHO next week. It is supposed to make a big difference. The bushing mod and bolt carrier mod on the Gen1 ECHO made a huge difference.
Oh that's great. Please let me know what you think
My Gen 3 BFS randomly quit working and shoots semi in both modes now.
Oh that's interesting. How long have you had it? Did you try reaching Franklin?
Now my question is do these work on all AR platforms? For example AR-10 as the pins are spaced diffrent or can we expect one for those platforms as well in the near furture?
Should work on the new small frame 308s but not a standard AR-10.
Is this a regular "drop in" trigger?
Will it work in a Bushmaster carbine lower with a standard Bushmaster 16" M4 style upper?
You can install it yourself, but not exactly drop in. Should work fine in your carbine.
Great video, as always. Curious if anyone has seen the ECHO used in a POF?
I have a POF upper I could try. I think it should work fine.
I've got an ECHO trigger on the way, intentions were to put it in a POF 415. After I ordered the trigger, I contacted Fostech, and POF to check if this might work. Fostech thought it might, POF thought it most likely wouldn't, stating "To our current knowledge, even with the updated gen 3 trigger allowing the use of a full auto BCG, they still haven't fixed the issue where their hammer is wider than mil-spec and doesn’t clear the interior of our bolt carrier group channel." Figured if anyone had seen this, would likely be you.
Will this work with piston based Ar15s like a Barrett REC7 s-s-piston system and PWS MK classic Ak type piston system?
This is very important to know before buying it
I discus testing pistons at about 6 minutes and the field test starts at 6:34 in the video. I tested 2 different piston uppers that did not do well with the Franklin Armory BFS and both did well with the Gen2 ECHO.. I tested Wolf A1 and LWRC IC uppers. With these two pistons it did well so it should be fine with any piston upper that uses a FA bolt carrier. So NOT Ruger piston uppers, PWS yes and I don't have a Barrett, but if the bolt carrier is FA it should work.
Michael Bell thanks for your contribution in testing innovative items, some people reviewers here said that this trigger no good for piston, Thanks
The Franklin Armory BFS does not work well with the piston uppers I have tested. The Gen 2 ECHO has been great with pistons.
@@MichaelBellmbell556 What about a basic pistol driven AR15 By Adam's Arms?,Thank You For any information!
@@rgarrison1819 Have not tested that specifically
Will fostech gen 2 work in ks-47 rifle?
I do not have one but PSA says drop in triggers will not fit. The Fostech has a trigger housing so I do not think that it will work, The Franlin Armory Gen3 should work but may need tuning with different buffer springs and buffer weights to minimize hammer follow.
I’ve been thinking of purchasing the echo 2 Generation 2 trigger I have a sigsauer M400 and will this work OK with that gun
Should be GTG.
I know your post is old, so this may be too late, My 6 year old Sig Sauer M400 16" has a semi-auto only bolt carrier group (BCG), which is cut back farther on the underside than a Mil-Spec Full Auto "compatible" BCG, so I don't expect it will work with the Echo II without changing the BCG to a full auto mil-spec BCG (about $160 from BCM or Fostech). Same with my DPMS 16" upper, and my Stag Arms 16" upper, so all of them would all need a new BCG for the Echo II (or I could just buy one that I swap around). Fortunately all of my SBR uppers have the proper BCG for my new Echo II.
I was told by my gunsmith that the more recent build of AR-15 rifles typically have a Mil-Spec FA compatible BCG that works with an Echo II, but my 1 month old Sig Sauer 516 Gas Piston 16" upper still came with a semi-auto only BCG - being a gas piston upper it won't be easy/possible to change out the BCG. However, the Sig Sauer 10" Gas Piston upper that I bought for my Colt M4-LE SBR has the proper FA BCG (as does the original Colt direct impingement SBR upper).
From what I have seen, the Franklin BFS III appears to work with any BCG, as long as you're willing to tune the buffer weight and springs to work 100%, or you can get the Echo II and a new BCG for your M400 if you have the wrong kind.
Would this trigger work okay in a sig 516 patrol?
It should be fine.
What is name of the song you played while shooting
"Bad Money", written and performed by my son and his high school band. I gave credit at the end of the video. Band name is "Room 120". Available on itunes.
I like my echo, but I get a hammer follow about every other magazine. Wouldn’t be a big deal if they didn’t claim it was impossible. If I’d have known, I might have saved money and gone the binary route. Good video tho. Thanks.
You are probably experiencing bolt bounce and not hammer follow. Try a heavier buffer and see if the issue resolves.
Thanks. I’ll give it a try. Thanks for the reply.
But you don't have to tune a Echo.
Mark. Year later...Did you get the Fostech Echo working properly?
What was the "FIX" ?
PS: What AR, barrel lenght, caliber?
What does that mean
What does what mean??
What's the name of that band in group you use for music in the background I got to get it already got the triggers
Room 120. That was a band my son was in during high school. It is their original music. I credit it at the very end of the video. The song is "Bad Money". You can buy it on itunes or spotify. Original music written and performed by them. I paid for the recording. They have 4 songs they wrote that I thought were good enough to pay to have recorded and copyrighted.
@@MichaelBellmbell556 as a musician and songwriter myself, I was impressed by the music which is why I searched the comments knowing there would be a discussion about it. The guitar riff was awesome, great drums and the vocalist was good too. Very tight. The sounded young and energetic! Good stuff.
So after testing this, do you prefer it over the Franklin BFS 3?
The differences I have found are the FA can be made to run a little faster if you match the upper, bolt carrier weight, buffer weight and recoil spring strength to minimize hammer follow. The ECHO is a little slower but runs in a wide variety of AR configurations with no tuning and no hammer follow. I will keep both the FA Gen2 ( I borrowed the Gen3 BFS) and the ECHO Gen3. I certainly think the FA BFS Gen 3 is a big improvement over the FA BFS Gen2 if you go with Franklin Armory. If you go with the FA BFS just be aware that you may have to tune the AR to run well with it. If you do not like fiddling and want to be able to plug and play with less fuss then the ECHO Gen 2 is a better match for you. I applaud both companies for their efforts. You can't go wrong with either as long as you understand the differences.
Will this work on Springfield saint pistol
I have not tried it with a pistol upper. I am going out to test a product this afternoon. I'll take the ECHO with a Pistol upper and see. What is the barrel length and gas system length of your pistol?
Looks like they are all 7.5" barrels and pistol length gas systems. That is what I will test if I don't hear different from you first.
Working on editing the video now. It works with my 7 inch upper with a pistol length DI gas system. Video proof this afternoon.
Michael Bell awesome man thank you for your quick reply.
what song is that?
This is an original song written and performed by my sons band of high school kids. It is available on Spotify and Itunes. Not bad for a bunch of kids.
"Bad Money" by Room 120.
Lol these are all sold out by now
do u want these ban too bad time for the video
This review has been in the works. Not going to change my timing to be politically correct. You can shoot very fast with any good trigger.
I know this but why help the idiots in dc , but it was a good review I like that it worked with piston rifles
Echo triggers are an accident waiting to happen.
You certainly need to understand how they work, that's why I go into so much detail in my earlier videos.
no moreso than sub 3lbs triggers on hunting rifles as if one just wants a single shot you can do so even in echo mode , just hold the trigger to the rear and clock on the safety .
As long as you're following all 4 rules Jeff Cooper set forth in regards to firearm safety they are no more dangerous than any other product.
Steve P You're probably a supporter of the Hughes Amendment? Anti gunners imply that average Americans aren't smart enough or moral enough or can't help themselves not to shoot everyone in a wild crime spree just because they have possession of machine guns. *How insulting!*
golf-n-guns Nope, machine guns are awesome. I feel that after many years of shooting "muscle memory" makes these triggers dangerous. For a new shooter, maybe not so much.
Michael Bell Michael, thanks for all your great videos. My concern is "muscle memory", otherwise I think they are ok.