The Spooky Technology Behind Apples Find My Device
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- čas přidán 8. 03. 2021
- In this video I explain the spook technology behind apples find my device that allows missing iphones, ipads, and apple watches to be found through a crowdsourced tracking network.
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I personally don’t have an issue with my phone being used to help other people find their lost apple products if it’s encrypted and secure. I do wish it was open source however, but sadly that’s not going to happen
I'd rather have better battery life and you know, protect my property.
@@tripplefives1402 yeah, avoid buying such garbage by any means necessary.
@Amene Shizuku apple is garbage, android isn't much better due to the google stuff, regardless, neither is rooted so they're not your property anyways.
@@senselessnothing linux phone
There really should be an open source version of this that takes off.
Meanwhile at Google:
Me: "Hey google, where did I go last night?"
Google assistant: "These are the 9 places you visited last night..."
While on airplane mode
@@rodrigosouto9502 While the phone was dead
Turn off location history. Ever thought of that? XD
@@XsaviXander that only turns it off for you, google still knows lol
@@Kamel419 Nope. They don't, unless you allow them to or use a service that requires location access (maps, rideshare services, delivery services) that uses the Maps API. Other than that, if you don't want the device logging every place you go, turn off location history.
Glowing even in the daylight
Ahem.. _searchlight_
I remember back in the day when Google first allowed you to see where your friends are... not creepy at all, with real time location updates so you could see the dot moving on the map. I think they changed it within the month though.
We still have that on iPhone, We use it with my friends since years ...
I think that the "Find My" function is actually a very useful feature for lost phones. Yes, technically Apple or Google would know my location then, but they most likely have my location anyways if I properly log in to a Google/Apple Account.
And I think on Android the service only sends location data when requested.
Just don't lose your phone lmao
But yes if you lose it it will be useful
The problem with these kind of things is if some demented individual learns to use this, and gets to track you easily, or sabotage you in some way - like make your phone constantly search and report, draining the battery or making Apple think you lost your phone and you find yourself with your phone blocked or who knows what other things.
They don't necessarily know your location, unless they naively send it unencrypted (not using a private key for your account).
They might know your location via an advertising identifier, but i dont think "find my" uses that data in it's transmissions.
Android's find my device implementation is a joke at best. With Apple atleast their's some actual usefulness, Google's implementation is just extra tracking without benefits.
@@klyplays what the f are you even talking about ? only samsung has find my capability using crowdsourced stuff. and its as good as apple's.
I am not creeped. I am happy to help people find their things.
*to help glowing people to find a promotion
If this was android, you'd be the first to scream privacy this that and the otherm
@@jjmmjj9999 Considering the plenty of other things Google steals from you, anonymously sending the location of local Apple devices would the least of my worries, lol.
@@nythepegasus apple aren't innocent
Neither are Facebook, WhatsApp, Instagram and the rest of them...
You're using a Google product too BTW
@@jjmmjj9999 Never said I wasn’t? Doesn’t mean Apple doesn’t have pretty decent security policies though. Say what you want, but Apple has some decent security stuff compared to Android and Google products. The fact that i’d have to root an Android device to get that level of security says something.
Great video, except two things, you can opt out of the find my network, and Find My doesn’t use cell towers directly; it uses them to transmit data but it uses built in gps to get that data. Using cell towers will only give a general location. Rip out the GPS modem in your phone then go to maps, it’s essentially a big blue circle covering a .5 mile radius which isn’t helpful (even with wifi).
Celltowers don't locate distance to tower based on signal strength but based on timing differences
Whilst this is true, in the end of the day, timing can be used on another function to decide distance.
So technically he's right, and you're just being pretentious.
@@jaredion1094 Precision is never pretentious
Comment for algo
Comment for Arch btw
¿Comentario por something?
@@bioemiliano
Algorithm.
@@jerrymartin7019 algo = something (in spanish)
@@bioemiliano jajajajajaja
Yes you can opt out. In settings there's an option called "Find My network"
Dewalt's tool finder app works the exact same way. Any phone running it will be constantly sniffing for Dewalt bluetooth beacons and report the location of any it sees that that have been marked "missing". It works pretty well because a lot of tool thieves tend to hang around and try to sell them to people that use them.
Hoping I don’t get in trouble for this, I don’t work there anymore but I can tell you your example is mostly right. However, once it’s on the server, all user specific data is encrypted and tagged with the specific user’s key. Essentially, Apple cannot retrieve those data directly. The location data is accessible but only without user specific identifiers. Any targeted, user specific data can only be retrieved by entering the user’s password and two factor code. (That’s ignoring some of the two factor flaws I’ll leave out just know that when I worked there it had some major flaws). Apple also does not release these data to third parties or government. So in short, even with the flaws in they current system, there still needs to be a fair amount of social engineering to break through. Hope this helps.
so there is a chance to take the stupid icloud off. I bought a iPad and it was locked and called the owner and it was rayban headquarters across the US and they didn't care for it but wouldn't let it free lol so its paper weight
dude your gonna change the world with wicked good info keep it up man !!!!
change tha world... his final message. goodbye
@@adamc343
One Day Mental Outlaw will upload his last video.
Probably one about the CCP
@@OggerFN Ima bet $100 his last video will actually be another 'how to cook a steak' video
Guys!
Noone would do anything with him! Why? Because normies don't care about privacy. Like... at all!
He is not a threat for anyone.
I would feel much better if the encryption worked like this:
1. Device Activated for wanting to be found - broadcasts a unique ID, and a public key for the encryption of location data
2. The unique id is simply an ID for the device stored via apple, and to the apple ID who wants to find the device
3. The public key for finding THIS device in THIS session (one "enable" of finding a device until deactivated) is generated on the stolen device, then encrypted via a private key for the apple ID account (via the password, salt, etc for the account).
4. Then the location is detected by Lassie, and using the public key broadcast, using SSL encrypts ONLY their location, and the unique ID of the device is not encrypted using the private key in order to send to apple.
5. Apple receives the list of found devices, via SSL and THEIR public key, decrypts the message, and then using the unique IDs will encrypt them using apple ID public keys related to that device ID.
6. Then the account owner, Ruth, will request a list of entries of the location for unique ID devices on their account. They will receive any associated (and even if they receive another user's entries, they cannot decrypt them as their appleID private key cannot decrypt those).
7. Then Ruth, using their appleID private key (which was set up exclusively for finding devices), will decrypt each transmission of the location of devices.
8. They get an entry of "device ID, location" and will be able to find and track that device.
Apple cannot see devices tracked, only the uniqueIDs, assuming they have access to those BEFORE encryption with the appleID public key.
Apple cannot see location data, as this is encrypted via the generated tracking PUBLIC key and can ONLY be decrypted by the user who owns that appleID account, and that private key is encrypted along with their account info via their password-based encryption.
Other users around the stolen device cannot receive the broadcast location, as it's SLL encrypted, and encrypted again by Ruth's public key for tracking.
Apple can even make it easier and associate "unlock keys" for data based on "Ruth's owned devices" that each have been granted access to her appleID account, so that if any of her devices see the broadcast of the lost device, they can find it locally without ever going through Apple -- But the data is encrypted and sent to apple in the end after the device is found -- assuming they enact this policy.
It's all encrypted, at every stage, and easy to ensure only authorized users have access to the location data, even when youre nearby and can "approximate" that data. Even so, Apple is the one who controls "deviceID" mappings so you cannot identify the stolen device. Apple could even rotate the deviceID every so often to prevent tracking of said device locally, as what happens in group / chat rooms.
I actually like that technology, having the peace of mind that if your iPad gets stolen that you can just find it again.
And I’m pretty sure the people that have lost their devices/had them stolen would be very glad that my phone is transmitting the signal to Apple 🙃
@Oreo Smells like bullshit
@@mzflighter6905 why? Activation lock is a thing. iOS devices screaming when you change battery/camera/display/etc is a thing. Phone knows S/N of each major part connected to it. Apple surely knows S/N part combinations of all devices it ever shipped.
Not hard to imagine that when you set your device into lost mode Apple adds all parts S/N from that phone to a blacklist, which is then used by every device to check against and pings back Apple if it has blacklisted part.
@@niter43 Why wouldn't you be able to reprogram the flash? Then it wouldnt care about it being nongenuine
"All cell phone providers in the United States are required by law to be
able to track the locations of active cell phone users to within 100 meters"
- So why are we worried about Apple having our location if the Government already has it?
hey but the government would never abuse its power
This is talking about laptops, etc, that aren't connected to the cell network.
HA.......Apple is our government.....Along with allllllllllllll other tech giants
Apple is part of that, so worry about both.
Bold of you to assume corporations don't have a huge hand in the American government
2:00 maybe spooky, but so GOD-DAMN COOL :D
Kinda makes me think couldn't someone make like a million fake find my phone requests in an area to crash iphones in the area or ddos apple's server? They must have some protection against that.
It's really hard to do that, due to the signature signing of "find my device" beacons.
They are likely encrypted, and not plaintext, via a public key for find my device, and this likely rotates. The only want to create this is to reverse engineer the software, for a given area, and then start broadcasting, before this rotates.
Also, they likely need a way to validate device beacons, and signature signing is almost definitely the method used.
It wouldn't be worth it. You'd need to have a "broadcast faker" system, fetch this broadcast public key, and then ensure that the data matches and apple isn't looking for fakes (they could detect a high number of fakes, and then just rotate the local region broadcast key, and have devices ignore the old key if it's seen as highly fraudulent in that area).
With how memory randomization works on modern systems, good luck finding the public key in memory, as well as it likely being in secure storage in the TPM / security enclave of the apple device.
I doubt this will happen.
What's worse is that, on paper, this is a great feature. I don't use Crapple products, but if I did, I'd appreciate this feature. While of course being spooked by the dim glow of the dark ones.
I experienced this when I sent my iPhone via the mail for repair, it was pretty cool to follow it through its journey on findmy. I think it only had Bluetooth and wifi turned on, and no SIM card and I would get fairly frequents updates.
How does a device know it’s lost in the first place? Does it just continually broadcast when it’s locked?
Given closed source not really sure, but probably intermittently transmits its GPS coordinates to your apple cloud
There's a Lost Mode, which I think does the distress call.
yeah you tell apple the phone is lost. You can ping it, set it as lost, lock it and wipe it. Apple also sends you an email and a push notification whenever you use find my.
@@tripplefives1402 where did you get that lmao
If it’s offline it’ll send these tiny beacons.
GPS Location Button has left the chat.
This is actually pretty cool! I’d love to see what the code for something like this looks like.
I'm glad someone's talking about this. I don't use the "Find My Device" service in any device for its privacy implications. But that being said I would pay for a trustworthy 3rd party organization to provide this service.
I'm not sure I'd trust anyone more than apple and that's a low bar. Being publically traded means we see a lot more than we do from most app devs
@@oneeyedlittleman How about organizations that built themselves providing open source encrypted services like Protonmail or Signal. They're more trustworthy that Apple when it comes to our data. I wouldn't hesitate paying yearly for a location service if they were to come up with one
love your vids man
Interesting. This channel is really good.
Couldn't be more excited to see a youtube notification on my phone
I am not sure but in the privacy settings under find my it says “Find My Network” and a toggle can be found beside it, with a caption saying Opt in or out of the Find My network
Yep. This whole video falls apart after 10 seconds of research
They also geomap wifi ssids by Mac address by reading your wifi network list periodically and cellular location.
I had a client literally lose her phone and macbook air in an airport in buenos aires. Stolen with a minute of inattention. With her apple ID credentials, I was able to remotely brick both devices. The phone had been resold to some woman who was taking pictures with it.
So is Find my creepy from a tin foil hat privacy perspective? yes. Does it enable one to potentially recover or failing that, at least brick the device and erase all data? Also yes. You can figure out which is more valuable to you and you might think about that the next time you lose your phone.
Would be sweet if this was open source of course, but this is Apple, I'm not holding my breath.
People want to be able to find their phone, but don’t want it to know it’s own location, hmmmm. If you’re really that worried about privacy then you shouldn’t be going outside, you shouldn’t be uploading photos of your self to Instagram or Facebook. People need to get a grip.
This system seems fairly competently designed, going off what you mentioned. Lots of key verification, in the correct order is good. First of all, having a list of randomized keys for the reporting device is definitely a good idea. Anything that works like a remote should have rolling codes. The fact the participating relay device uses a randomized identity is also good, as this limits the extent of usability if the data is leaked, without a massive correlation being run on the data set. Encrypting with standard pubkey encryption before sending it to Apple is expected, this isn't 2004 and HTTP/1.1. The fact that the searching device requesting the coordinates has it's identity verified before they are sent to it is also a good measure. Yes, Apple needs to make sure their servers are continuously searched for exploits, but it means there's a 2FA-like system in place, which greatly improves security. Overall, based on this video, I would trust this system, on a 'necessary evil' basis, because recovering a lost device is worth the slight reduction in privacy it causes. Plus, I find grid networks to be a cool concept in general.
You can opt-out of the findmy network in settings afaik... don’t know if it’s turning it off completely
What are your thoughts on the Librem V?
your channel deserves way more views
Bro do you have all this info from any article or any research,
If yes please update the description with the link.
Your choice is: Apple and IOS with security updates or Google and Android sometimes with security updates.
You can choose also Huawei but then data can go to China.
Also you are being tracked by base stations and this data goes to your mobile provider.
My choice is Apple.
Commenting because I am curious how tall mental outlaw is. I am guessing 5’10
I think he mentioned before that he’s over 6 feet.
6'4"
4,10
he sounds like 185 - 198 cm
3'8 is pretty tall for a gnome
With every day that passes I become more convinced that privacy is dead,or at least dying for the sake of convenience
These tech giants have so many ways to track us,it isn't even funny
Just don't have a phone and Internet
return to monke
You can turn this feature off
5:25 you just described TikTok, but also add that the dataset (catalogue) also includes photos and videos of the product (child).
This is actually a super great technology because it hardly makes you any more tractable if you are already carrying an iPhone with you and it really helps you find lost items.
cool the video 😂
Thanks to the earn it act you can rest assured that by law Apple has a way to not only decrypt this data but also designed a backdoor for law enforcement to enact warrant-less searches
Is that a good or bad thing?
@@vlbxrto_187 depends. Do you have a password on your phone and are you okay with showing its contents to anyone to asks?
@@faded.0913 depends gallery no but other stuff i could care less
@@faded.0913 so i suppose for helping during terrarisy or criminal work its good
that a great community effort, i wonder if every one of them are awere
I love this thumbnail
okay... so hypothetically if i own an iphone, and i always have wifi and bluetooth off (not just disconnected) and i have find my off on all my devices, theoretically would my phone still be pinging location constantly? is it using gps to do this then? or is it still using bluetooth and wifi even if they are switched completely off? or am i "safe"
I love this feature.....
The biggest problem as I see it, is that iphone users are constantly mapping your associations outside of the web sphere.
Reminds me of Smith v Maryland, the case which estabalished that once you turn over your data, including everything Find My provides, to Apple, then it becomes Apple's data and you lose your rights to it. They can do as they please with your data once it's theirs.
Title should be "Find My Spook"
More like "Spook My Device"
@@lilythebluespheresfan2897 Yes, it's even better!
Not sure if that was meant to be racist or not. I really hope it was! 😂
@@i_used_adblock_to_watch_this wat?
@@bioemiliano the term “spook” has more than one meaning. This is an urban dictionary moment.
So with your iPhone communicating so much are you billed for tis and how about it draining your battery life and slowing down your iPhone???
Does this still send out data when the phone is turned off?
Whenever people have their phones stolen the find my never works because people turn off the phone.
Find my money where is it WHERE IS IT I found it it’s in apple fat pockets
I found my money in the couch cushions.
@@funkyfresh1013 that’s couch pennies hide them before Apple finds the couch pennies
this comment deserves a pin
@@tsymeh IKR
lmaoo u funny af
Opting out its pretty clear. Disabling find my, disables reporting too, it’s in the tos
Goated thumbnail
Don’t they use this to determine traffic on Apple Maps?
Naughty tim, stalkin' us all day
Because most people don't even use apple products 😛
That was a really cool walkthrough of the potential zero trust exchange. Are there any papers or sources you used for that?
I am really interested in this topic.
Great work on this one!
tbh I kinda hope google implements something similar if they haven't yet cuz I personally love the idea of crowd based device tracking
It’s basically a peer to peer network but since apple is close sourced, it can shove it as default in every device and use it to provide another service. Very clever
I think if it was designed in a way that the data was encrypted and only the actual owner can decrypt the data (using asymmetric encryption for example), it wasn't too bad. I mean still every update of location would require a ping like message to some host in a common network with the owner. So a government for example still could log those pings (which will be send most likely to the same host and look quite similar.. even encrypted), follow the connection through the network and get your location as well with some inaccuracy.
The problem is that any connection contains direct or indirect information about your location and the time. So the encrypted data in such a message would be only more accurate but not necessarily different. This implies that decrypting the data will potentially be easier.
It's not impossible to add measures against these weaknesses though. But I would recommend full disk encryption on a device over such a service. Because your data on the device could be more valuable than the device itself and if your device can't connect to any network (power loss or isolation), the service won't help you anyway.
5G suddenly doesn't look like a giant leap in creepiness anymore
can you explain me what you think was the most creepy thing of 5G is?
@@alevilikvealeviler for exactly the reason "Find My Device" is creepy. Millimeter frequency bands don't handshake well from far away
Features that they already have
Bluetooth and AirTags
Well you are living in the future right 😂👌🏻
i think he meant airdrop
There are a few ways in settings to disable it completely but nothing that directly points to find my iPhone, it would mean disabling it for all apps.
What's privacy?
Sent by: Your friends at Microsoft~
I think it's some sort of weird drug Google told me to avoid.... I follow the all knowing Google!
@Oreo go away Tim cook, you're not fooling anyone
@Oreo or just avoid the closed source apple fully... Get an android and flash custom ROM
@Oreo no that's not true banking apps work on custom roms and even work if you root with magisk. Untill you're an idiot who uses kingoroot lol
I feel like proprietary software should be illegal. Sure, they can be proprietary to the customers but I feel like the government should require these companies to have their software regularly audited by trusted third party companies
So basically it's the same as a lost kid screaming "MOMMY!!!! MOMMYYYY!!!"
i love it,My mom's iphone was stolen on my B-Day and sometimes is comes online as they are still trying to get into the phone so find my(lost mode)is very helpful
So that's why my company requires my to disable the feature on my business phone...
But I assume your company uses MDM to manage your device remotely and you have to trust your company’s device policies and IT team.
@@mattvega manage device management and they literally see everything and erase all of your data, also locked you out of it which is not good
If they disable find my device... i doubt they know how it actually works though.....
I don't think the location is tracked with "find my device" how they think.
The real way if they cared would be to disable gps, and any mapping application.... but then you have cell tower triangulation and wifi geo-location....
One of the other features of Find My iPhone is that it also creates an account lock, so a phone that has it enabled can't be moved to a new account (at least without raising a lot of red flags).
Just a little detail - iPads and Macs do have gps
Not all of them. And this also allows you to find the device even if it doesn't have internet access anymore
This might come off as a dumb question but why use this Apple device network instead of just the lost iPhones GPS?
Spooky indeed
I'm so glad I switched to lineage is with no Google packages. Fuck man.
I use GrapheneOS, its pretty cool
btw
I use HavocOS (no GAPPS, using MicroG). It’s very cool,
Hey a havoc os fella
Every day, there’s new information that makes me want to change back to Android. Dang...
It really is the best mobile OS just because of it's open source nature, at least most or all of the binaries are open or can be removed.
Google has www.google.com/android/find for GApps devices. Microg does not work, nor does stock android.
Google isn't any better when it comes to privacy, but I still prefer Android.
@Caliber-Calibur Is there an ARM port 😳😳😳
@@mineton1293 That's vanilla for ya!
How did you go about making this entire video not knowing that you can turn this feature off independently of find my iPhone. The whole find my network thing was added not that long ago
does this still work when the device is turned off?
@Oreo But then thieves could just turn off the phone to evade being found. A friend of a friend supposedly had Apple turn their phone on for them so it could be retrieved. I don't know for sure because I've never used Apple.
If the lost phone is not connected to gsm or internet, how would it know that it is lost?
The owner may request for Apple to locate their phone, but this request is not going to arrive per se at the phone itself. Because if it were, then it's very likely that we can get the position of the phone through other means.
So would this mean that my iPhone would be constantly talking to nearby iPhones whilst checking whether they are being looked for or not? Say I disconnected my phone from gsm and 4G for some reason, and I am still able to use "find my iPhone" to find it, then it must be that the phone is constantly notifying nearby apple devices to check whether the phone is lost or not (they may be able to check through internet if they are connected), and if it is, they will report their own location to Apple...
Is this sort of how that goes? Or am I completely confused on how this works?
Very valid question and reasoning. I'd say the only useful way is either the device is always sending out the signal.
what might be a little smarter is if apple maintains a database of lost phones in a specific area or region just have other people's iPhone send out a signal:
"hi. IPhone 123 is lost, are you iPhone 123?" The lost phone could respond "yes I am iPhone 123" The the random person could upload to apple iPhone 123 found in close proximity to *current coordinates*.
This would mean the lost iPhone should always be receiving or listening for beacons.
The only reason I call that method a little smarter is because it would save some battery on the lost iPhone only having it listen for signals. And the absolute worst case for a lost phone is for the battery to completely die.
Wow the omnipotent beings at CZcams must really not like this video . They tried to hide it from all my feeds. Looks like in the future I am going to need a app called Find My Videos 😪
I’m not subscribed to the channel and I got it recommended 🙃
Yeah I think this guy is a bit of an idiot, not subscribed and I get this shit constantly in my feed, lol
I’m constantly getting recommended this FUD crap. ymmv
0:49 that's just cursed dude
commenting for the glowy meems
Find my local fsf feels better
Serious question. How many answers to questions raised about this could possibly be answered by looking at Apache or APSL code? I'm asking out of ignorance.
Depends on how open source their code is, which for apple it's unlikely.
Very interesting. While you're correct about the tracking and all that info, I'm more comfortable trusting Apple with it. If you don't want to be tracked, you should go back to a Nokia Bar phone, or a pager. Otherwise, who else is there? Google/Android? Where their business model is procing service to us for free and ACTUALLY SELLING YOUR DATA? Apple may not be perfect, but at least I'm the customer there, and there's a relationship that Apple takes seriously.
>have an iphone
>get beaten up for snitching
Found this video after refreshing my homepage
All this technological advancement, i still couldn't find Waldo
Apple: We care about privacy.
Also Apple: Let's keep a gigantic database of user locations.
ok fair point, but tell me a better alternative then
It’s a good trade off. If I lose my device, I can probably find it again.
this explains the short battery life
It’s the same technology Batman used in the Dark Knight - Lucius Fox disables it at the end
As much as I don’t like sharing any of my data, I trust Apple with it more than Google or Facebook. Apple doesn’t have a social media platform or advertising service for your data to be used for. I’m sure there is something they could do with it that I’m not sure about. But at least you can disable information sharing between Apple apps and hopefully soon all apps.
they do advertisement of apps on their app store
@@l0k048 I suppose so, but i rarely even use it. And when I do, it’s usually something I already know I want so their “ads” can be ignored.
I think the more important part is that Apple just advertises their own crap (apps on the store all give Apple money) vs the others who sell your data to others for their ads.
Companies need to find a different model for income that doesn’t involve consumers’ data
It sounds creepy, but it's very interesting and a very cool technology. I don't like IOS but kudos to Apple, they make cool software
Settings > (Your account name) > Find My > Find my iPhone > Turn “Find my network” on or off
You didn't mention how the police have access to your location data.
The method described is way more complicated than it has to be. You just report new bluetooth address to apple with your GPS coords when you find one. It's only a few bytes. You then let the server comb through all that data. You don't need to know who, Lassie or Ruth, saw it. Just bluetooth address X was seen at Y at time Z. And maybe when it went out of range. Then wait for other reports to corroborate the data. If you have several temporally and spatially coupled, average them.
Hell, you can use these to easily track someone without their knowledge. Maybe even using their own device! For years (idno how long is the battery life)
Okay, now we need an exploit named Evil Timmy.
Hello. I am here to comfort you cuz why not. Take this: 🥛 🍪 . You are safe in the comment sections.
Putting aside the ethical and security issue that this brings, that system is fucking amazing. Like if you drop your airpods on the ground and tell apple, it basically sets of a massive scavenger hunt using millions of devices. And everybody just sort of takes this system for granted.
Actually this is not true. I lost my AirPods a week ago and there’s nothing I can do about. They no longer show up in find my and I can’t even mark them as lost. So they’re basically gone.
I think this only really helps for iPhones and iPads. Find my is only useful for AirPods if you look for like one airpod you’ve lost in your apartment or so
@@mxmln8699 oh bugger. Thanks for correcting on that.