Recapping My Classic Macs
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- Many who are into technology are familiar with failed capacitors, particularly the through-hole type. But surface-mount caps are regarded as being more difficult to replace...but are they really?
Blown cap image:
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Intro music by BoxCat Games (www.box-cat.com). - Věda a technologie
Hey Colin, if you ever run into a soldering project you don't feel comfortable with find me. I do soldering on my channel and I'm just up the road from you.
Wait you know where he lives? That weird and cool
@@chrisbaldwin8222 no, I don't know his address, but he's mentioned the state he lives in. Some of the places he has visited is in my local area.
Love the tshirt!
Great video but please be aware that you CANT go up in Capacitance rating, you CAN go up in the Voltage rating without issues tho. If you do go up in capacitance value your machine will start doing weird things or not work at all.
Btw, great removal technique, I use the same myself but I use my desoldering gun to remove the excess solder from the pads, then apply flux with a Flux-Pen and then only put fresh solder on 1 pad per cap. After that, you can push down on the cap while heating the pad with your iron and achieve a flat installation. then you solder the other side and your friends will think your recap was done by a Pro. :-)
Derek Osborn you can sometimes go up and down in capacitance. Nothing is critical. I say this with experience
Whenever you are doing hot air rework you should always use flux. It does two things. First it takes to oxidation and keeps it off the outside layer of solder. This causes of solder to melt easier and evenly, it also keeps the oxidation from interfering with the welding process.
Secondly it helps protect the components around it from the head. You can also use kapton tape to help with that.
Also another big thing to consider while doing hot air rework is the flow of air. It doesn't matter if you melt a solder of the other components around it. Surface tension will keep them in position. Unless the air flow is too high then it will just blow off components.
Start with a lower air flow and then work your way up.
Also never run the repaired equipment while it's still hot. Give it a minute or two under a fan to cool down. Don't use a cryo spray either. They have their place, but in this situation it might crack the board
Good work thats exactly what you do it helps alot and it keeps surface mounting easer without breaking traces
I'm surprised he didn't mention the use of flux since he was using a flux pen.
At 3 min (time stamp) you showed a bunch of capacitors ..in a guess the bad one kinda way...you left no scope for even the most inept to get that wrong ! ...just put the biggest smile on my face...thank you....Respect, peace.
One step you forgot was to *use solder wick* to remove the last bit of the lead free shit. When it's mixed with leaded solder, the resulting amalgam / alloy becomes especially brittle. Not too big a deal, but it could lead to the joints failing over time with shock, vibration, or other mechanical stress.
I recapped my Macintosh Classic a month ago, and now the sound works again and it is much more reliable. If only I could find a floppy eject gear motor, it would be 100% perfect condition.
I've heard of people 3D printing replacements for those.
Thank you for demonstrating how well hot air works on these SMD caps, I had a ton of trouble recapping my old Quadra 840AV because even with hot tweezers or two separate soldering irons, there's a tiny blob of glue under each cap and it's really difficult to break them off the board in a controlled way. Really easy to slip and dig into the board. Much better to just melt the glue with air!
Now that you mention the analog board at the end; putting this together with the CRTs instability... I would say you should have recapped the PSU/analog board first.
No. The main board will get eaten by those caps before the THTs on the analogue board and PSU fail.
Very thorough video on this recap process. I’d be VERY interested see the rest of the repairs on these 2. Hope to see those soon! Thanks for taking the time to make these videos. Invaluable to soon-to-be retro repair ppl. Been subscribed for a while now, love each upload.
You can always go up in voltage. Straying too far from the original capacitance values may cause issues. Keep the same capacitance values.
Yeah. Literally every other soldering video will tell you this. Also I don't think tantalums are a good idea for something like this, pretty sure EEVblog has a video about why you can't always just replace electrolytic capacitors, unless it's for things like power filtering.
Very cool, some technique for SMD caps is really appreciated. This gives me confidence to finally try my hand at recaping a piece that uses them (with some practice on scrap, of course). I also loved the mellow/sensual RnB grooves you have playing in the vid there, so good!
I find surface mount caps are easiest to remove if you cut the can off flush with the bottom plastic plate using diagonal cutters. That will leave behind a black plastic spacer and the two leads which can easily be removed with a proper soldering iron and desoldering braid.
Damn just got the notification as I got to work, I'm gonna be itching to watch this one, I remember playing Oregon trail at my local day care on these as a kid!!
Retro Donut ah Oregon trail... the memories
@@jackrussle3574 "OK finally ready to leave town!" *immediately proceeds to go hunting*
I had an iMac that sat in my parents garage for a very long time that just ended up not turning on at all. Really wish I didn't bin it in hindsight now that I've gotten a fair bit better with the soldering iron(And yes I tried change the battery, so that wasn't it)...
Was pretty perfect for mid/late 90s games when you ran Mac OS 8.something, and I remember really liking the screen.
Be careful with the same model of hot air gun Colin is using. Those ones are known to do very bad things - there are a few videos on the 858D Rework/Soldering stations out there that go into more detail and possible fixes. They're fine to use, just make sure to examine them on delivery and take measures to be safe with them. Including having a fire extinguisher. ;)
Excellent video as always!
I have an Acer monitor that could use a recap, for restoring the color. But using a unimportant board for practice is a great idea! Thanks again 🤓 I subscribed. Should have a long time ago! I would say you got a good deal on the rework station. The recap extends the life, even tho those mac's are old, of those classics!
Cool video! I've always been weary with soldering since my brother and I ruined a PS2 during a mod-chip install attempt when we were younger... I do enjoy watching people fix old stuff though... Keep up the good work!
I ruined a Gameboy advance when attempting an AGS-101 screen mod. I was a noob at modding retro consoles and not paying attention when modding the GBA, i pinched the ribbon cable when closing it and it caused artifacts on the screen. had to buy a new gameboy advance and a AGS 101 screen and try again but more carefully.
I need to mention that through hole caps can also leak in the same way SMD caps do. This is especially common with old Low ESR caps inside switching power supplies like thos inside classic macs. The output filter caps on my Macintosh Classic I PSU actually leaked that way and ruined the hole PSU; fixing this took me several moths, since I also had to replace many other components from that area that have been destroyed by the electrolyte. And removing this old electrolyte is crucial (especially in high impedance circuits, but also anywhere else) since it's - as the name suggests - conductive. You need to use acetic acid (from vinegar essence) to neutralize it; just dissolving it with alcohol or removing it with dry cotton swabs is not enough. Also don't forget to remove any residue of the acid once you're done, since it will quickly corrode stuff.
And one other thing: the electrolyte leaking from caps sometimes is invisible without removing the cap, since it often stays under the bottom side of the cap or - with SMD caps - between the plastic part and the actual cap sealing.
When ever working on a mac remmember it isnt always a cap it can be a short or bad transistor diod or resistor. And yes classic macintosh computers are very random when it comes to working on them. And i have had leaky caps that still work fine and test fine in a LCR meter but I would still replace due to tje high hours and the loss of heat restriction.
@@nekoprince9621 Replacing some diodes and transistors and some passives was also a challenging part of my mac classic repair. It also took me a while to figure out that the potentiometer was destroyed by the electrolytes and had to be replaced.
Good work with the recap!
14:03 It's good that you have those glasses. No need for the microscope. I joke, brother.
I think you did a great job! And you offered some great tips!
You are removing the old capacitors the wrong way! You could damage the pads like that! The easy way: take a pliar, catch the old cap, push towards the board and twist. Magic!😀
You need to clean the logic board on the 575. The electrolyte has gotten everywhere, and if you didn't clean it that's probably why the sound doesn't work.
Very very good! It is absolutely right to first try on a no longer needed electronics board. Otherwise it may end in a mess! Greetings, Doc64!
Easiest way of removing electrolytic capacitors is to twist them while holding the boot (plastic base) in place. The boot will break the legs out of the capacitor, not off the board. Then use copper solder braid to clean the pads off completely. Finally, apply flux to the pads, hold the new capacitor in place and tack-solder its legs onto the pads. This prevents excess solder from spreading underneath the capacitor boot and bridging the vias underneath or nearby the capacitor.
I had to replace an intel I/O chip on a mac mini once, I had never attempted it before but it wasn't too bad, I did have to use an oven to properly flow the chip which did work. I also had to replace two or three smd capacitors on the same board after baking. That late 2008 non working mac mini that I bought for only $30 over 3 years ago still works to this day!
I find that if you do not have very fine solder ".5 mm or thinner" than just applying some solder paste to the pads and laying either the component or capacitor in place and quickly melting one side with a fine tip soldering iron is not too hard. Dental composite instruments can really help put the paste where you intend and solder paste leaves such a clean joint! But I have spent quite a few years repairing car audio equipment and have worked on many smd based amplifiers, so I was ready for the mac min!
Another tip would be to buy a mixed lot of the capacitors where the ones you need are included, that way you can use the others for recapping or repairs.
I only just recapped my color classic the other day ! What a coincidence, will you be doing any more videos on these models ?
I also did the gentle rocking technique and it worked fine without lifting traces
Great job! I am LOUSY at putting down surface mount so I end up putting through hole on the surface mount pads after removal of the surface mount caps. Also I love your choice of soldering irons. I have the same one or at least same family. Simple and easy to use and with some good rechargeable batteries cost efficient as well.
Some boards are equipt with lots-o-tiny smd aluminum electrolytic capacitors, all over the board, or clustered in certain locations. The thru-hole caps are much larger and will give you space, or pile-up issues. Keep that in mind, when you do recap work. I tried to do that on a Sega Game Gear, I quickly rolled back the large cap install, and bought myself some smd capacitors, and soldered those on instead. The "Retro Six" CZcams channel has helpful smd soldering tips. Very Helpful.
A mac without it's bong is talking to someone without saying hello...oh wait
Last year I recapped my SNES and RGB modded, I had zero experience SMD soldering, did it wth a ton of flux, good solder and a decent soldering iron with a fine tip, and of course some tweezers, since then I did a lot of other SMD soldering with a lot more confidence, and with time I've been upgrading my soldering gear, depending for the job you don't need a hot air station, but for sure, is a good tool to have, and is the next on my buying list.
Great video but man oh man is that board dusty Colin!
Mike X it made me uncomfortable that he didn’t clean it
When replacing capacitors only the voltage is allowed to be higher. Capacitance should be exactly the same. This due to the total effect of these capacitors.
I would suggest for people to purchase some Kapton tape to protect the smaller components around the area you are applying hot air to. You don't want some ceramic capacitors to fly across the room. Believe me, you will never find them.
Great video. I'm just starting out soldering boards myself. Did you do this without using any rosin?
One thing I prefer to use to clean baked on dust, Big paintbrush, and then use a precision paintbrush, also Rubbing alcohol dipped in the brush works well too. I see LGR using a Toothbrush, that's good for really thick dust and grime, but a paintbrush tends to be less abrasive
and i feel like i need to say this, USE A NEW CLEAN paintbrush, using ones you used with paint could harm your electronics
See this asked me already longer do you need to make because you get to deal with , thank you very much Colin for this lesson ,very useful gt Ed
I solder almost daily at my job I say for the Quality of Iron and hot air gun you're using That's an above average soldering job for the tools you're using. Very nice!
I've seen much worse jobs from much higher-end equipment!
Also very EASY is to use TWO SOLDERING IRONS in parallel! So you heat up both pads simultaneously and ... plopp them off! Best regards, Doc64!
If you don’t remove solder from as least one pad then you can’t get them flat without potentially levering one of the pads... which can be really bad when they are weakened from leaked electrolyte. There is very low risk with braid when you have already removed the component and cleaned the area.
i recapped 4 old macs that i found. a Macintosh Classic, a Macintosh LC, a Macintosh IIci, and a Macintosh Performa 450, they all had leaky capacitors and i never tested them until i finished cleaning and recapping them. they all work now. The Classic has System 7.0.1, the LC has System 7.1, the IIci has System 7.5, and the Performa 450 has System 7.5.5. many of them except for the Classic had no hard drives in them, the Classic's HDD was dead sadly so i couldn't see what was on it. all of them have SCSI2SDs since SCSI hard drives are hard to find.
Me during the video: "Hey why aren't you using tantu- oh. Yeah, okay, I get that."
Ugh. You can’t just replace any electrolytic with a tant. They have different characteristics that the board was engineered around.
@@emmettturner9452 Huh. Fine in an SE/30 and Classic II that I did for a friend. Tantalum caps are pretty much the standard in the the black and white compact Mac community.
Joel Crane Yes, just like much of the console and handheld community is now replacing electrolytics with ceramics. It may work, but it’s still wrong and could lead to issues that are hard to diagnose/troubleshoot. The entire point of replacing them is to head off such issues.
@@emmettturner9452 Correct, but unlike ceramics, which have indeed different characteristics to electrolytic caps, tantalum caps have not and are a direct replacement. In case you don't know, tantalum caps are electrolytic as well. The difference is just that they use a non-liquid electrolyte.
I'm replacing SMD electrolytic caps with tantalums for at least 15 years in all my retro machines. Not a single one ever showed even the slightest fault due to this. The only reason tantalum caps are not used widely is costs.
@@_derSammler Check out the chart in Afrotechmods' video called "Why electrolytic capacitors are actually kinda shitty 💩"
While it's true that tants are much closer to AL electrolytics than the other types on the chart, the tants are still closer to every other type than they are to aluminum electrolytics.
Let's say that your circuit was designed around the expected ESR and ESL of an AL electrolytic cap and then you throw a tantalum cap in there instead. Now the ESR and ESL have changed in a circuit expecting a certain ESR and ESL. The rest of the circuit doesn't get reengineered to compensate so inductance and resistance-sensitive parts of the circuit are potentially out of spec.
If you are engineering the circuit for better long-term reliability then tants are the way to go but it's almost always best to stick with whatever the designer intended when servicing the caps in something else.
Hey, I have a LC550 with a same problem here. I sent out my 550 board, it lost sound not long before I bought it apparently, for a full cleaning/recapping/battery change, it came back in great shape but I still have no sound. Did you ever find out the root cause on yours?
This might sound silly but is the volume on the 575 on? At least on the 500 series (not sure about other macs of the same era), the startup chime won't play if the volume is muted.
plug headphones into the computer... the fault could be the little switch in the 1/8 inch jack to sense the headphone plug!
Capacitors dying on old electronics, that is one reason why old electronics die and can be fixed by replacing capacitors. That is the take away message we get from our university electronics lab course.
Did you ever end up getting the sound working? I have the same problem on an SE/30
I'm cheap and remove smd caps with a pair of pliers. If you rotate the cap clockwise or counter clockwise the legs will break off the cap and not damage the board traces. Done it for a long time. Also smd caps generally have worse esr than radial through hole ones. I just replace with through hole type usually.
Also need to warn folks about polar and non polar caps.
I'm going to suggest something that may be entirely obvious...but if I remember on the older Macs if you had the sound muted or set to 0, it would write a value to PRAM that would mute the startup chime as well. I assume you still went into the Sound Control Panel to make sure the sound was dead there too?
You want the same capacitance when replacing the caps. Higher voltage ratings are fine though. Do yourself a favor and remove all solder from the pads before you install the new caps. It’s best not to mix solder chemistries long term and it’s easier to fill seat the cap when one pad isn’t mounded up.
I can dig it, I gotta do this to my desr 5000 psx :P
Very interesting video! Do you mind me asking what brand/model of cordless soldering iron you use?
It's a Hakko FX-901. It doesn't have a ton of thermal capacity so it's best for small solder joints, but it's very convenient and works well.
I'm glad we don't have smell-o-vision. Can't stand the stink of heating leaking capacitors.
mmm... fishy 🤢
Uhhhh, i can smell it still
2 . 200 mm pc fans on a suspended shoe box and a clothes dryer flex hose to a near window.
Never worked with a hot air thingy, i use too do it all with a solder iron even multi leg ones lol
What soldering iron are you using?!
You can test the 575 board in the cc since they are compatible
Can you use the heated air gun to soldier the capacitors back on?
Yes you can.
Also, at 13:21. Why did you do the outside cap first? Tip for new hobbiests, when replacing caps, start with the inside first, so you don't get in your own way.
What kind of temperatures should you use?
you should get a fine soldering iron Tip, paint on flux
Are you sure you don't use way too much heat? The plastic was bubbling up on that one cap you focused on. Also I wonder why you didn't clean the board, esp the stains under the cap where it seems like they've leaked electrolyte.
I'd want to use something like the Hakko 950, you can do less damage to a PCB with that tool.
I have this computer but when I turned it on the screen turns on but it is blank.
How do I repair it?
I once owned the power Macintosh lc 520 with Ethernet card
The video issue on the color classic sounds like a reflection issue.
Great video. These tend to be a true pain.
This is public service 😁
Audio problems are a anologe board problem due to bad caps as well i have not fixed any newer 1990s macs but i have done it with mac pluses, I own two and i have had problems with cords connecting tonthe board and old caps even if they look good they may be bad just replace all of them if you have to.
apple was so awesome when there logo had colors
Check negative voltages on the power supply. That can cause audio issues
Not sure if I just watched an ad for a hot air gun or a tutorial on recapping a Mac classic
hot air can cause delaminating the pcb, remember clean off w/ IPA
Hi Colin its going alright.
He doesn't waste his evenings...
you cannot change the capacity value... but higher voltages yes...and if you want to change to an another type cap, you need polarized cap....
I like your videos please keep making great videos if I come across some old tech you could be interested in I would like to message you about it maybe you can make future episodes
hi that some cecks you got to be so care full i pick up sony 1800 uvw betacam sp decks
in side the uv meter unit there are 5 caps that go bad i can see them going bad as they are covered up the lool of the unit is ok
i have fond for me is to cut the cap in 1/2 with a side cutter first and get the rest of later as the grey pad part could lift the track pads
i have had this going on and clean of the solder legs later on
just a guess - are you local mpls/st paul ? take care & stay safe.
wonder what the odds are the g3 i just bought will need this done... hmm
You want to try and match the capacitance for most electrolytics. Going up is bad advice! Not saying it will damage anything but it can definitely affect operation, unlike going up in voltage.
Not usually that bad for power supplies... timing and filter circuits yes... PSU's not so much!
dan b Look up Afrotechmods’ “Why electrolytic capacitors are actually kinda shitty 💩” video.
High frequency is where the different properties really change results. Let’s not forget that this is a computer... not an appliance.
@@emmettturner9452 friend, I've been fixing this sort of stuff for 30 years!
Going up a few microfarads is NOT a big deal, unless it is a timing or clock circuit! These are just filter and bypass caps!
as for the Afrotechmods video regarding caps... that is electronics 101 basic electronic theory my friend.
"
Emmett Turner
dan b So have I. He incorrectly suggested that going up in uF is an accepted rule of thumb, just like going up in voltage rating, and he did so without limiting his suggestion to “a few microfarads.” Surely, you can see why this needs to be called out before he influences others to assume it’s always OK. You yourself listed examples where it is not OK. Speaking of doing this for 30 years: you can’t just go up on every cap in an Atari 5200 or Commodore 64 for the same reason... those analog inputs use the pot with capacitors to adjust the frequency and determine position. I’ve taken advantage of this to repair new-old stock controllers where the resistance has dropped in the pots over time. Funny that you say it that way, “Electronics 101.” ;) The first thing he says is that it isn’t taught in school. Granted, the comments section is full of people saying otherwise."
Emmett, fair enough, I agree that there's times when you shouldn't modify the rating and values of components. certainly in timing, and filtering circuits, as well as op-amp gain structures, etc... but in run-of-the-mill-bypass caps... no harm done.
truth! you must learn the rules, and then discover when it is ok, to bend them a bit in the sake of immediacy...
If I had to go out and order and then wait for every capacitor value i needed to replace, I would never get anything repaired and back in service in a timely fashion...
Use flus and a hot iron. Hot air is for multipin devices, not electrolytics.
Have you watched Louis Rossman's videos about repairing newer Apple devices? Maybe you can learn thing or two from his videos about how he does these type of things :)
Please be gentle when pulling up on those aluminum electrolytic capacitors from the board Sir. Those pads come off with very little ease. Much more so on older electronics, that have leaked electrolyte all over them. I saw you tug on one of those capacitors. You are gonna rip the pad off of the board, if you do that. I made that mistake with my NEC Turbo Duo game system, and probably depreciated its value by making such a terrible move on one capacitor mounting location. I had to find an alternate path to solder it to. Not only that, It was a real chore, to find a way to mount it securely to the board.
Don't be afraid to get the hot air close to the board with one hand, and some tweezers with the other hand. Hold the capacitor you want to remove with the tweezers, and very gingerly, lift up on it, then apply the hot air moving back and fourth, as the hot air is gonna work its magic, melting the solder. The capacitor will come right off with very little effort.
You need to clean away the electrolyte that has leaked onto the board from the bad caps.
I've recapped many of these, and other stereo equipment, and when I watch these videos I cringe a bit because you don't need to mess about with solder stations or hot air guns. It's not at art project!
Just take a set of clippers and snip the top of the cap. Once you crush it, it will slide off easly exposing the pins. Then just lift off the plastic base over the pins, leading just the pins standing. You can then remove these really easily by heating them one by one with the iron and using a pair of pliers to pull them off the PCB.
You generally don't even need to tin (re solder) the base before inserting a new cap. Just clean off the electrolyte.
I've never broken a pad and I don't use flux - modern lead free solder has it already - and I use a cheap iron and solder remover gun.
Also, don't replace SMD caps with newer SMDs. Just get cheap electrolytics. Much easier to work with and replace in future, if required.
Tantalum caps are also a waste of money.
Don't over think it!
I saw in some other YT video that those speakers are made of a material that will definitely degrade over time. Have you tried headphones or external speakers? If those work, then most likely your internal speakers are dead. Good luck!
I think there was something recently in a victor bart about the speakers. Was like a apple museum.
@@s.h.5726 yes! The HomeComputerMuseum video. Great memory!
I greatly regret that my parents threw out my LC575 after I had moved away from home. I should have asked to take it with me even if I didn't have the space...
A color classic is worth some real dough in eBay.
the shrinking and expanding picture is a high voltage regulation fault....
You might find this interesting. Use youtube search to find "Electrolytic Capacitor Removal NO Desoldering Required".
CLEAN THE FRIGGIN BOARD BEFOR SOLDERING ON IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG where is the flux ?
frak the original look, go with longevity.
also. clean your boards!!
You don’t want to replace electrolytic with tantalum anyway. They have different characteristics.
you know it is a great video if it could have saved you a lot a drama 1+ years ago XD
Recapped my Classic II recently, machine boots much like yours, but the audio & chime is a gainy, garbled mess :(
Would you be willing to sell me a recapped macintosh classic 1990 logic board or recommend to me someone who might have one? Great videos, keep it up :)
you can just twist the caps of
Hey Colin Howsitgoin. Strange surname, how's it goin'?
First, and foremost, FLUX! As Louis Rossman says, the bigger the glob, the better the job. Second, look up the correct temps to use on google.
I agree without a ton of flux is also why he is cooking the pcb go watch louis rossman for a quick hot air lesson also those Chinese cheapo hot airstations like to catch fire buyer beware
Ubiquitous “soder” “solder” comment. 😉