The Hidden Cost of Coming Out | Middle Ground
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- čas přidán 15. 05. 2024
- NOTE: The names of the participants on the Closeted Queer side have been changed. Each cast member agreed to have their faces blurred, and was given the option to have their voice modulated.
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0:00 intro
00:16 Coming out has a price
07:02 It's hard to feel loved by someone who doesn't know that you're queer
14:53 You should cut off people who don't accept you
21:10 I couldn't see myself being on the other side today
39:23 I accept myself
44:28 Closing statements - Zábava
NOTE: The names of the participants on the Closeted Queer side have been changed. Each cast member agreed to have their faces blurred, and was given the option to have their voice modulated.
You should probably pin this to the top of the comment section
Exactly what I was saying. Use common sense, people.
I would pin this!
Remove the video. The blurring is not enough. The modulation is not enough either. Anyone that knows these people that are watching will figure out in a heartbeat.
@@stamzthehuman897but the participants all agreed to those terms.
This video is just continuing to prove that being raised in a Conservative Religious Home doesn't stop anybody from being Gay.
And it doesn't. More than anything, that environment forces people to live False lives burried beneath all those lies, guilt and shame. It's no way to live.
Not really; there will always be failures. But that’s not the point anyway. The point is to not have them act immorally, which this has been successful at doing. Obviously, not on these people (or else we wouldn’t be watching the video), but on people nonetheless.
@@Adam-326Source?
@@Adam-326 Bro just admitted to hating Gays.
@@triofan9 They never have any. They just like talking 💩 about Gays.
please lord do not dox these people
😂😂😂😂
They knew the risks…
@@Adam-326they were told their privacy would be respected.
@@theelectricant98 Yes and Facebook also tells you that. So does Google. This is the internet. People make mistakes. One tiny unblurred frame and that’s it for you. It doesn’t even have to be intentional.
@@timlynchmusicandlessonsooo you’re so cool you’re such a bad boy 😈 everyone thinks you’re so awesome and edgy!¡!
To hear Curran express that he worries people may think he touched their kids because he's gay brought me to literal tears.
What a dreadfully horrific thing to have to think about😢
I went through that with my mom and little brother it was truly disgusting
@Kidassassin109 I'm so so sorry that happened to you, that's horrifying. I hope you are able to heal from that.
My question would be, how many times did it happen for homosexuals to be involved in pedophilic situations?
It's one of the scare tactics used by religion. So not very surprising.
@@BroJo676 It's projection
Curran unblurring his face just bought up all the tears and the feels!! Such a sweet moment!! I pray that revealing his authentic self to his family has been comforting and full of love!!
It definitely was an experience,
@@Curra1199do you mind sharing how your family/friends have taken you coming out?
@@stephi6792 I said it more in what they cut, but I have been out to most of my friends and classmates for a while, just not my parents. But my parents mades sure I knew they still loved me, though they are still processing
@@Curra1199I'm glad it did go well afterwards ❤️ watching you do that brought me so much queer joy! I hope you gave an amazing pride month this year being fully out 😊
@@Curra1199 Very glad that it went relatively well so far. It is certainly a process that takes time for most. That was my first question when the episode ended - How did the coming out to the parent go?! I hope that their acceptance will grow strong! You were incredibly brave to unblur on the spur of the moment (if that was the case). 💖
I'm not Christian (or religious at all, for that matter) but "I can't see a heaven, a place that I would wanna be, without my daughter" made me tear up. That was so powerful
Same, i'm not gay or religious so im not even relating in that way, but that was beautiful
Whew I had to take a deep breath
Same, I’m not religious or queer and that made me tear up rq
Was that in the patreon or did I miss it?
Literally. I’m atheist and that ish had me bawling
khadija MBOWE!?! the way i clicked so fast
SAME
Love her♥️
Women kissing on women isn't a big deal anyway
@@KeepItCute22 They're non-binary xx but sameeee
Meet too 😂
KHADIJA BROUGHT ME HERE BUTTON 😂 ➡️
No fr! I saw the thumbnail and I was like, KHADIJAH WHAT ARE YOU DOIN HERE
Saaame
I haven't seen her before. Where else can I check her out?
She's Khadijah Mbowe here on CZcams@@Enlightened08
@@Enlightened08 On her CZcams channel, Khadija Mbowe.
Their family members hearing their voice:
👁️ 👁️
👄
💀
🗿
They were given the offer to have a voice modulator and didn't take it.
@@yelljal2764Proof?
And seeing their names... and clothing.
The pixelated effect on the Closeted peoples' face is very weak.
Unless they have family and friends that are easily fooled, I think their voice, bodies and mannerisms alone could easily reveal who they are.
Completely agree. Jubilee should re-upload to pixelate better, maybe their whole bodies, and distort their voices. They're going to get doxxed for sure.
I'd say distort their voices to further hide their identities. I also think Jubilee should've advised them to wear long-sleeved clothing, in case anything on their arms might reveal their identities.
Yeah, Jubilee did the absolute bare minimum and it's borderline useless to the average person. They just care about their clicks and numbers.
Nobody is watching this sht.
@@reno419rockstar are you lost? 12k views in an hour? Over 8 million sunscribers?
It breaks my heart to see people view their parents struggles and sacrifices as a reason to not be true to themselves.
Unfortunately there are people who think their struggles and sacrifices entitle them to inflict suffering on other people, so this aberrated thinking manifested before them and will exist even after our generation
Exactly what's the point of escaping horrible situations in order to be 'free', if you can't really be free
They actually don’t want to put themselves in financial, housing or social danger.. They are just waiting that one moment they’ll be thoroughly independent from all this to freely be the real version of themselves
its sad that that people still may view their child being queer as a 'struggle' and 'hardship'
@@CUP1D0Nthere’s more to it than that. Middle eastern & Asian families are similar when it comes to wanting to honor your parents. Then to recognize their struggles and sacrifices and hopes & dreams for you… it’s not just being scared to leave b/c you are not financially stable etc. it’s feeling like you have failed them & that all their suffering and sacrifices have been for nothing.
Every Middle Ground where it’s some version of “gay versus not gay” always turns into a religious discussion.
Just like the gay vs ex-gay video.
Because brain washing is real.
That’s the main reason people have against being gay
That’s because religion is the main thing used to shame gay people.
It's ALMOST like religious beliefs are the some of the main reasons queer people are still unsafe
As someone who spent a lot of time in a (secretly) homophobic church, I can totally understand what triggered Sal - Greg seems super great 100%, but he had pastor-style word soup going on that is sooooo church-coded.... saying so much so politely but being unwilling to say what you mean in plain language because you know the true statement you want to make is controversial. Really took me back for a second.
Yeah, she literally mentioned that she is open about the trauma she have because of mentality like those.
I’m glad to see someone else in these comments recognize that, seeing all the comments feeling bad for Greg makes me feel like I’m hallucinating. It’s very obvious to me he was trying to soften the way he expressed his views and not step on toes in a way that was very ‘love the sinner, hate the sin.’ Which is still very harmful rhetoric, especially one that is packaged in a book and sold as a ‘Im gay and a Christian’ book, that presumably lots of queer youth in the church might read.
@@UknownAgain my intuition is that it's tricky to recognize if you haven't had a lot of experience with it! But if you do....hoo boy!! As easy to see through as glass. I feel for him very deeply. I think if a few things had gone differently for me, I'd be in a similar place of dissonance that he seems to be in. It's like it's impossible to accept full freedom for yourself when you're so used to being boxed in.
Reminds me so much of my family.
Excellent marketing on the thumbnail, Jubilee. I saw Khadijah before reading the title and now I'm here.
Same lol
They had me with Khadijah thought she was reacting to this episode
Same a ran in as soon as I saw her.
Same
LMAO SAME
Greg’s voice pattern and inflections are so spot on for a youth pastor
He's definitely exuding youth pastor energy 😂
He's oozing Christian dance parties 😂 I love that for him
@@naylaw1928😂
I’m kinda sad about Greg. I understood the frustration in trying to get him to understand but he’s obviously at a different point in his journey. Religious trauma does a number and impacts people differently. His celibacy seems like a form of self punishment from the way it was explained. I extend compassion to that perspective.
I understood what he was saying as different to your interpretation. My understanding is he finds fulfillment in his relationships with others without the act of sex. There are many people that have the same opinions as him without the religion included but I think the ones that had past negative experiences regarding religion were letting those experiences affect their interpretation of him and his beliefs. He was very respectful. Ironically Sal was calling hypocrisy meanwhile she was being hypocritical, she allowed her experiences surrounding religion to judge and condemn his experiences and beliefs. Even if you don't agree with someone you can still be accepting and respectful.
I agree he might be in a different place in his journey. But what if he became a celibate monk? Would it be okay? Is there such a thing as an "out Queer" who does not have sex?
No, he’s perfectly valid, and more so than most of these other “people”.
@@Adam-326Your point is inherently harmful and a net negative on the world when it dehumanizes any group of people.
@@rileydickman9354 Small-minded thinking. Not too surprising, but still. Greg’s not doing anything wrong. He sees the sacrifices that need to be made and he’s actually strong enough to make them. He’s fine, which is more than we can say for the others.
I also wanted to add my thoughts of - you don’t have to come out!
“Coming out” is never a one and done process, it’s continuous and arguably never-ending. You can have your chosen close friends or people know, and that be it! You don’t have to tell everyone. You just have to love your beautiful self fully.
Agreed, you get to decide how, when, and if you come out. Nobody is entitled to your private information.
@@Random-sk6hmExactly! Cis and "straight" people don't have to "come out", so why should LGBTQ people feel pressured to share such information about themselves with people who don't matter?
Thank you for this, I needed it❤️🩹
Khadija’s here, I’m here!
Yeessss I yelled a little when I realized it’s her!!❤️
Same😊
I'm so lost who is she 😭
@@Random-sk6hmshe’s popular on tiktok
@@Random-sk6hm They are non-binary btw, and they post commentary videos on social issues.
What’s the point of covering theirface when their friends and family can still recognize them by their voice
Yea.. I was hoping they would audit their voices
They can still deny it. But yeah
but not very likely for them to watch this video tbh
@@arykenzy yeah but someone may share it to them
@@arykenzy That defeats the entire purpose of being anonymous then. "Oh my friends and family most likely don't know who Jubilee is and aren't going to watch this".
If that's how they think then why are you hiding yourself at all ?
Although I disagree with Greg, I appreciate his honesty and how respectful he was in his delivery. I also sort of feel for him in the sense that his views come across as a form of self-penalisation for being queer. I hope one day he can come to accept himself *fully *
That’s my issue with him. He’s respectful in his tone and demeanor and criss cross of ambiguous words, but he isn’t in his message, and he isn’t towards himself, which is so sad. He’s saying what he and everyone in this room is, is wrong, ultimately. Just going through mad hoops to find a way to make that sound ok. But it’s not.
@@BeatriceFionahes respectully disagreeing with them and has a different view i that a crime
@@alexanderwilson3096exactly! He’s not pushing his views on anyone else, just stating his views. I’m gay, I’m not religious, and I see no issues with what he’s saying. The woman in blue broke up her family so she could go munch on carpet, she’s completely intolerant and disrespectful.
@@BeatriceFionaHe is just stating what he personally believes in. He said multiple times that not everyone believes what he does and he's completely fine with it. I find it very ironic that the others got mad and judged him for the way HE wants to live HIS life. Isn't that exactly what many of the queer people here had experienced in religious groups? Didn't they want the freedom to choose what they wanted for themselves? Greg chose a different path. He is not hurting anyone.
@@kaisla5820exactly this!! he spoke so beautifully and seemed to get a lot of backlash for simply stating his beliefs, which feels quite ironic given the topic at hand
I thought this episode was very cute overall but seeing Curran unbluring his face at the end made me feel so emotional, i hope everything went smoothly for him and he got love and acceptance from his family
Thank you! I definitely got love, i don't know if i can say i got 100% access but they're still processes
But yeah jubilee, please fix this video and reupload. Edit their voices or something
Calm down guys, I'm sure the people speaking were aware before they came on that their voices would not be altered, if anyone on the panel specifically asked for it I'm sure Jubillee would do it.
jubilee said they gave them the option to modify their voices
They agreed to this. Bye
In the description it says that the anonymous contributors were given the option to have their voices modulated. So they probably agreed to use their real voices.
Jubilee should've blanked modulated all their voices. Don't take the risk especially when some of these people are in vulnerable situations and could have friends/neighbours etc. send it to their family members.
Extremely happy for Curran for coming out like a boss! BRAZY
Yeah that's was so beautiful ❤
Thank you!!
@@Curra1199
I'm happy for you.
I wish you the best of luck with your life.
@@Curra1199Congratulations!!!
@@Curra1199 What a legend. I wish him the best of luck and also hope his medical degree goes well
"I don't wanna see a heaven without my daughter" TEARS.
I understand Sal's frustration with Greg, but I think she could have been a bit more empathetic as someone who also grew up in the church. I don't agree with his view at all, but I feel like it's clear they're on different parts of their journey and tbh? Some people never make it to what you might perceive as the "end" of a journey. I got what he was trying to say about accepting that everyone's experience is different. I think it maybe wasn't expressed well because he was nervous about being in the hot seat
i agree. i surely hope though that he gets to a point where he accepts himself and doesn’t stay in this way of thinking
Ya I feel like the energy she brought is only more likely to push him further into his beliefs. People don't respond well to feeling attacked. But I understand she has trauma related to what he was saying
I felt sals frustration in the fact that its like greg feels gay, acts gay, but I don't do that.having his cake and eat it too. Which is kinda like hovering this thing over your head as he mentioned. It's something else. I feel bad for Greg most of all cause he is so torn between religion and a loving relationship
@@tedros6917ya and considering she’s supposed to be a coming out coach she literally just attacked him
Ultimately it's Greg's failure to recognise and accept the harm that his unreasonable perspective brings to others.
He doesn't talk about the benefits of his beliefs over others, he just tries to deflect valid criticism by obfuscating the logical conclusion of his perspective and minimising his involvement in the negative consequences that follow people who think everything he does but instead decide to also push it onto others.
Sal is frustrated with Greg because she knows exactly why it's so hard for him to accept it, but knows that it's possible, and that Greg made a cowardly choice at the cost of those around him as well as himself.
finally an episode that features authentic stories, as supposed to the sensationalist/fringe people and topics they usually feature in their LGBT-related episodes
Same . It's refreshing to hear personal stories instead of both sides being played like sniveling fools. Politics does that a lot.
On another note, what if Jubilee does a Middle Ground episode on pro-Israel LGBT people vs pro-Palestine LGBT people? I bet that would be a disaster that depicts Queers for Palestine as a group of idiots. 😂
Fr and I love that it says *and* instead of *vs* in the title
@@len-1768supporting genocide is never a flex and you laughing at the matter really shows your true colors 🤢
I hope Curran’s experience coming out to his family went well, and any of the other closeted people if they choose to ❤️❤️
It went exactly how I expected, not amazing but they still love me
@@Curra1199 I'm so happy for you ❤️
@@Curra1199I’m soo pleased for you.
@@Curra1199give it some time, trust me If initial reaction went fine, they will be much more accepting and open about it in the future, just never close yourself
@@xnhno yeah I'm not worried and I'm not gonna be not myself
These are HUGELY important conversations that need to be had, not only between queer people, but for those outside of the community to educate themselves on. Thank you for providing the platform Jubilee.
So happy they had Greg’s perspective to show that each side doesn’t have to agree on everything.
I have a feeling they won’t be closeted for much longer
With this borderline useless "protection" I wouldn't be surprised.
Sometimes all it takes is seeing that people can be safe and find their own community. Especially when you're mormon it's a very isolating experience to be "different" and everything in the religion is tied to family and community. Knowing there's more family and community on the other side is comforting !
I don't understand. They at least disguised 🥸 the pitch in another anonymous jubilee video
Same
I actually feel horrible for them
Khadija got the QUICKEST click out of me! Seeing their face let me know this was gonna be a safe space and possibility a zero toxicity discussions ❤
Thank you for trusting my judgment cause y’all know I’ve side eyed jubilee before. 😂 this was mostly a really lovely convo not really a debate
@@KhadijaMbowe Imma be honest, everyone's talking about you in the comments but I've never heard of you. However, you seem like the loveliest, warm person and I have to check out your channel now. Thank you for your discussion in this video 🙏
@@Random-sk6hmdo it, do it, do it! Their videos are awesome.
It’s just one person?
@@upbeatproductions7614 Khadijas pronouns are they/them, I hope that clears the misunderstanding ✌
yall are wrapped up in them not being blurred enough but let’s be real. if their family is homophobic they are not clicking on this video
This is so true. They won't even get recommended this video
true. people are really overestimating the demographic of conservative religious parents who go on youtube to watch a jubilee video about closeted queer people of all things.
It was incredibly brave for Curran to come out on the internet like that. I came out to my friends, then my parents a few months later, then I mentioned it in a youtube comment like 6 months later. It's a really big step. I commend you, Curran
I wholeheartedly support all of you💖
Thank you!
No one cares
@@anonymousbo0318❄️🤡
OOP- is that our favorite internet auntie Khadija Mbowe?? 👀🤭
OMG WE'RE SO PROUD OF YOU CURRAN!!!!!
Thank you!!! Still crazy to think that I've finally done it
@@Curra1199 i hope you are doing great!!
I feel like I’ve been living under a rock or something because it’s seems like everyone here knows who khadija except me so I’m gonna go and try to find out who they are because damn they got my attention before they even start speaking 😭
Hi, this is a friendly reminder that Khadija identifies as non binary uses they/them pronouns❤
You should get into their CZcams channel, interesting stuff
For me, the openly queer participant I immediately recognize is Greg because we went to the same school.
You will love them!
@@omaima13. it's fine, don't feel bad we all make mistakes
OMG I cried when Curran gave consent to unblur his face. I felt that so deeply and personally. So proud of him.🏳🌈
Thank you!!! I'm so glad I was able to bring up the courage
1. Remove the anonymous people's first names.
2. Apply a BLUR filter, not a pixel filter.
3. Pitch down & modulate their voices.
This isn't very "anonymous" and anyone who knows their family well will be able to identify these individuals if they stumble across this video. Do better for their safety please.
Edit: Read the replies please. I'm aware a new pinned comment/caption disclaimer has now been added. I still have my concerns, but I understand now that these people made their own choices regarding their level of anonymity.
I believe they used random names
@@hxpewxrld I have noticed that now at the end as one person decided to come out with his face and real name. However my other concerns still stand.
Jubilee should've told the closeted participants to participate under aliases, like Kafir did in the Muslims vs ex-Muslims video.
@@hxpewxrld Even if they did, that's easily the most redundant thing. The censoring is weak and borderline useless and everything else you can see. Plus their stories.
@@ggartnstuff Yeah they do which is why I didn't mention your other concerns, they're vaild
This make me want to cry for poor souls who can’t express who they are, in all forms
It's a strange choice for middle ground because everybody is on the same side. But some of these discussions were great
It's unique but I liked it. It's awesome that they put 'and' in the title instead of 'vs'
This was so wholesome; I was smiling through almost all of it. This is the type of mentorship we need in the world-- especially imo having Sal and Greg both, so that young people know you get to make your own decisions about what being out looks like for you.
I can't believe Sal is a coming out coach. I didn't know that was a thing but it's so awesome
Glad there was a moderator this time
There has been for like the past 5 videos :D
He is useless
There should've been one since they started this series tbh
@@x_x7088 Don't ever disrespect Gen like that again.
Moderator was great, not sure if they're queer themselves, but they gave solid clarifying questions while being emotionally present.
Told my mom I have a girlfriend yesterday...Way better to be out when it feels safe to be ❤🌈
@27:00 to @39:30 Initially, I thought Greg was saying that he wants to wait for marriage. Then I was like, "Wait, is he saying he is abstaining because he is still dealing with being gay but is in denial about this?" So, I'm glad that Sal pressed Greg a bit because I think that he too is unsure about his understanding of why he is celibate and how his religion is factoring into his identity. Without Sal, I don't think that would have been acknowledged as an issue Greg is still battling with.
I was so close to throwing my phone against the wall and cussing out loud when he said that 😂 I swear if I was in the room with him I would’ve snapped!
Curran sounds like he has such a loving family and I’m so happy for him for taking the next step 🥲
Thank you!
@@Curra1199 you were so iconic for that Curran! It made me tear up at the end watching. I hope everything went well with your family, rooting for you
their voices can be heard, their clothes and bodies are recognizable. jubilee what is this?
The consequences of their actions. If they’re lucky, this will be the last they’ll hear of it. If not… it’ll be a fun ride.
@@Adam-326"fun"?
@@ggartnstuff Yeah, it’s bound to be interesting, at least. I doubt that we’ll get to watch it play out, though. Maybe they’d start CZcams channels, but I’m not holding my breath.
@@ggartnstuff Yeah, pretty much.
@@Adam-326Are you wishing violence on these people? Because it looks like you're wishing violence on these people.
Khadija is literally the only reason I’m watching this
Sameee
Love her
I wanted Khadija to speak moooooore tho 😅
same lol
Who??
There was no point in pixelating their faces if none of the other identifiers (voices, body shape, etc.) were going to be hidden
the only thing i can think is that maybe new people they meet won’t recognize them after? idk lol
they were given option to modify their voices but they denied ,read the description
Why did they leave the battery pack change in the video? The tension was palpable 😭
Longer runtime 😏
lol it was an interesting addition xD
Welcome out, Curran, be proud of your journey ❤
I relate to Khadija and Ocean so much. And honestly to everyone in this panel in one way or another. I'm senegalese born and raised and from a Muslim family. I've been studying abroad for a few years now and although I was scared at first, I'm out to most the people around me. But I'm still closeted to my family both as an ex-muslim and a queer person. And everyday I struggle with the idea of my parents disowning me or hating me if I came out. Both of my parents are openly homophobic and I have to pretend to be a different person around them. It's extremely mentally and emotionally taxing and one of the main reasons why I've struggled with su!c!dal ideation for so long
Your story resonates with me on so many levels. I hope you have wonderful friends who you can be your authentic self with, at the very least (and hopefully some who have gone through what you're going through, so you can feel truly understood). I know just how isolating and suffocating it can be, when it feels like your family will never know who you really are. We convince ourselves that it's for their sake that they cannot know who we are, but I hope one day there comes a point in your journey where you can share your full self with them. I will be thinking of you and I'll be wishing for nothing but peace, safety, and joy in your life.
@oilygrossboy9313 omg thank you. this actually brought tears to my eyes. it is definitely still very hard but your words were so comforting. i wish the same for you and more
You shouldn't use the word closeted. It's no one's business who you are being intimate with, most people don't care. No one is homophobic, it's not contagious.
@@reno419rockstar I mean.. the way the word is used is really to indicate that there are a number of truly important people in this person's life who have absolutely no idea that this person is queer. It's easy to say that your sexuality is no one else's business, but imagine if you couldn't share any of the joy that comes from your romantic relationships, with the people who are important to you. And also, being born Muslim, and raised in a particular kind of upbringing that's unique to Muslim individuals, it's really not that simple. If this isn't a life story and journey that you can relate to, then I implore you to practice some empathy and try to imagine why this could be a difficult thing for some very real, and very human, individuals to go through.
@@reno419rockstar Also, I wanna challenge the notion that homophobia, or any discriminatory behaviours and beliefs, aren't contagious. Lots of queer kids and teens get picked on and are straight up bullied by their peers. Some of these bullies learn to pick on others, perhaps because they've heard a parent say something truly nasty about queer people. Or rather, they see/hear other kids behaving in such a way to queer kids. They then feel emboldened to do the same. Their actions and words cause a ripple effect, teaching other kids the exact same thing. And they carry these attitudes and behaviours well into their adulthood, then passing it on to their own children, effectively conditioning homophobia into the next generation. The cycle then repeats.
Despite, committing to celibacy. I still got a sense that Greg was trying to have it both ways. He was identifying as gay, encouraging other people to live out as gay people while saying it's wrong to be gay 🤔
I was thinking the exact same thing. I hope he grows to truly accept himself and his desires.
Thank you! It's like why even be out if this is how you're going to live? That just sounds sad.
😂 You pissants are so self-involved
I think it’s his version of coming to terms with himself and his beliefs. He is gay and nothing will change that, if he acts in that is his choice.
I think it's his religious guilt
I’m so distracted by how poorly they are covered up. I can practically see the tall person on the end. Clothes, jewelry, voices, mannerisms, if I knew any of these people even a little bit in person it would be too easy to identify them. If Jubilee promised to protect their privacy then they should take this down and fix it.
Fr I feel scared for them they are so many terrible people online + their parents could easily recognize them
Curran, love you brother! I'm so glad you felt so comfortable and ready to show another side of yourself. Dang, I hope all went well with your folks. 💜
Thank you so much! It went as well as I could've hoped. They made a point of telling me they still loved
@@Curra1199❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
Did not expect Khadija to be on here. Love their channel!
Same 🤍✨️, Kadijia is non-binary btw, I also sometimes forget too 😅
Do you see double? Math is not mathing. Or is it grammar?
@@PROVOCATEURSKbruh
@PROVOCATEURSK the singular "their" has always been a thing. We were taught this elementary, dumbo.
@@m_ron2742I assume you didn't do well in either subject
Such a beautiful moment to witness Curran come out this way. Rooting for you King! Hoping everything worked out well with his parents.
It went as well as i was expecting
I do love how Sal and Greg still respected each other despite not agreeing with each other. That hug of love was definitely needed at the end!
I don't feel like Sal respected him tbh
Yeah, sal specifically said that she doesn't respect his beliefs even after greg mentioned multiple times that he doesn't want to force his beliefs on others and still loves and respects people that don't follow his beliefs. She was so disrespectful to him and his personal choice, that little bit of acting at the end didn't make up for that
@@Yoshimitsu293totally agree. It makes me mad that they allowed it to continue going on for so long.
@@Yoshimitsu293She was pointing out the hypocrisy in his beliefs, respecting a person doesn't necessarily mean respecting all their opinions.
@@pilibab What hypocrisy? he believes she is wrong, but respects her belief and doesn't try to force his beliefs on her. Meanwhile she believes he is wrong and wants to force him to adhere to her beliefs
having the moderator sitting with the participants was a great move to keep things on track.
As a Muslim I just wanna hug ocean. He deserves a community who loves him whole and not just for parts of him.
What is the punishment for apostasy?
@@PROVOCATEURSK ….The same punishment that is in Christianity and Judaism lmfao?!?
This is not a gotcha especially when there are specific conditions for that punishment(I’m not in the mood to humour an islamaphobe) and documented times in which apostates where treated with kindness and safety (by the prophet)
@@sumaiya-ey5zcYou various cult members arguing when you're all clowns
ok but what do you mean by that? is homosexuality included as a core part of his identity?
@@AnthropogenicInversion I mean that homophobe Muslims need to leave him alone.Being gay is apart of his identity and so is being Muslim he doesn’t have to choose smhhhhh
while I don't agree with the way sal was calling greg out (i feel like she made it too personal although i understand why she felt like that) I do think it was important that somebody call him out for the sake of the closeted kids because they probably in a really vulnerable place and imagine if they internalized that thinking when trying to figure out what coming out would look for them.
i was thinking the exact same thing. this seems a little harmful for them to hear. i hope they talked to the closeted queer people afterward about what he said.
She didn't make it "personal" at all, she just asked him what he really meant which he couldn't say. Don't victimize Greg because what he did was so harmful, he looked not only at queer people but CLOSETED queer people and told them that queer marriage and queer s*x is sinful. There is no respectful way to go about that.
@@mangojuulpodsss her statement at 32:22 is making it personal tho. there is a respectful way to go about it because at the end of the day it not abot greg. hes going to do what he wants and theres no amount of talking thats going to change his mind. i feel like it wouldve been better to talk to the closted kids instead.
He did just say to her face that he thinks her marriage is 'wrong' and that all queer sex or dating is 'wrong'. That would understandably provoke a reaction from her. To make matters worse she had religious trauma.
@@mangojuulpodsss are you getting paid to write these comments like why are u under every single one
This is probably the most respectful and calm episode between the 2 groups I've seen.
i did not expect to see khadija here but of course i´m here for it
Ayy thanks ya'll for watching - this was a super interesting one to moderate, wait till you guys see the end. Would love to hear your thoughts on this topic
Gen, please regard the comments concerned for the anonymity of the closeted individuals' identities. They need a better blur filter (not pixel, full blur perhaps pertaining to their clothing also), voice editing, and names removed, otherwise any relative who stumbles on this video will undoubtedly identify them.
please consider that the editing paints Sal as the angry attacker and Greg as the helpless victim, when all she is doing is pointing out the flaws inherent in his belief system, a system which is likely affecting many LGBT youths negatively.
im not the one editing the videos - im just working together in collaboration with jubilee to host the episodes@@ggartnstuff
Hiii
I wish you pushed back on Sal when it came to Greg.
I’m so happy for Curran. I got emotional for him taking that step and being encouraged by those around him to do so ❤
Thank you! It was exactly what i needed
"Sometimes in the process of coming out, you figure out who the people are who matter most" I almost cried hearing that
I used to be a Catholic Confirmation teacher as a young adult. It was tough coming to terms that I'm bisexual. Coming up in the church during Prop 8 and hearing priests talking about homosexuality as gross or of from Satan, it made it super conflicting and made me hate myself. I feel for the closeted participants
I am a convert to the Church. I was really into it until around that same time of Prop 8, when I heard Priests say "If we legalize sin blah blah blah..." in and on. I just remember those distinct words. It was shortly after that I started pulling away, after years of my life being rather devout. I don't think the Church even considered how many people they've pushed away.
I had a similar experience but in the UK it was called Section 28 enacted by Margaret Thatcher's government in 1988 which prohibited schools from discussing homosexuality at all. It was essentially the prototype for Florida's 'Don't Say Gay' bill and harmed an entire generation. It led to a huge increase in state-sanctioned homophobia in schools and general public. Fortunately it was repealed in 2003 but that damage still lingers on today for older people.
Hey fellow bi person with probable Catholic trauma :)
@@oopsibrokethecow for every gay they push away they get the families who double down on religion. Because how does one abandon their child because of the church ever justify leaving after that? Hate brings people together VERY effectively.
As (former) christians you should know that Satan is not the bad guy in the bible.
Congradulations Curran!!! Welcome to the club and I am so happy and excited for you.
The Mormon apostacy story got me in tears. My mom and dad could never with a move like that, but a boy can hope.
I think grilling was brutal. Greg never once attacked anyone’s union. If he wants to stay single for the rest of his life, why are you attacking him? Kind of tacky. I didn’t expect that from any of the participants. It is his life just like it your your life. His core belief is he finds men attractive but it directly contradicts his religious beliefs. And he didn’t once impose those beliefs on anyone. And he also isn’t trying to fool anyone by having a pretend relationship or a relationship with a guy that wouldn’t lead into marriage. He is protecting not only himself but others heart by not giving them the wrong impression.
The concept of this video is great but please respect the closeted people’s privacy. Anybody who knows them could easily tell who they are. It’s early enough to still delete this video and completely edit them: their voices, faces, and bodies. Please help them out.. they obviously don’t feel safe in their situations and this just isn’t protecting them enough.
Plz read the description ❤️🩹
Thanks for keeping it real, your authenticity is refreshing
Bot
You go Curran, what a cool surprise!
Thank you! I surprised myself
Khadija ! The queen of articulating what we think inside!
I actually really respect the way Greg communicated his very STRONG opinion in the most respectful way possible. It’s unwarranted for Sal to be coming after him. He’s allowed to have an opinion & he’s not forcing or trying to convince anyone else to change theirs. That’s just the way he wants to live his live. (Could never be me but I respect it)
Agree. He wasn't forcing it onto anyone else, just following his personal moral code. I hate others projecting.
You can’t voice that type of opinion without being harmful, he looked at a lesbian woman with kids and told her he thinks her lifestyle is inherently wrong. There’s no “kind” or “respectful” way to get that across?
@@mangojuulpodsssi feel like it's weird to say that you can't have opinions that some people might take offense to. not every person has to be a role model for the "correct" way to live.
@@mangojuulpodsss No, you're still projecting just as Sally was. He stated what he felt was wrong *for him* and she, and you, are pushing the idea that that affects other people when in fact religion and religious practice is inevitably different for everyone. I spent a long time in the closet and surrounded by religious homophobes and the sentiment was very different than with Greg. He was not pushing his belief onto others, others are pushing it onto themselves.
@@ggartnstuffagree with you. She was rude asf.
I feel so bad for Greg for being put on the spot but I think it was also important to clear up those questions and confusion for people who might still be hanging on to the indoctrination. Maybe I misinterpreted but maybe Greg still has some internalized issues going on.
honestly they all do
I agree that this topic is important, but the way it was handled was kinda gross. As you phrased it, he was put on the spot, and, imho, not in a respectful way; it did very much feel like a witchhunt.
I get that alot of emotions and triggers very involved; maybe it was up to Jubilee to handle the situation better, I mean, what did they expect? Kinda irresponsible.
@@malegazeofficialNah, when he was talking about loving yourself in regards to everyone being able to, he was really only talking about himself.
He's not gonna care about us on the alleged spitfire anytime soon x
@@alpachinko9154 I think the way I phrased my point makes it very clear that I'm not defending his ideology, but very much criticising how the discussion was handled. He did not need to be attacked like that, it's not adding anything fruitful to the conversation as a whole, because no one is learning anything new, and people are just gonna stick to the extreme opinion they already had.
@@malegazeofficial I respect your opinion, but I disagree. Having dealt with people with the same rhetoric IRL, they go unchallenged, so dive deeper into it.
Everyone's too afraid of what they may do in response, rather than scared of having a conversation itself.
Greg is such a sweet person. I don't agree with his beliefs at all but I really appreciated his nuance and self ownership of his beliefs and the way he spoke i think was really gentle and nice. Hes not affecting anybody but himself. But also people coming from the Mormon church upbringing, totally makes sense why that would be so triggering and hurtful to hear at the same time. I think both can be held at the same time with nuance
The issue is not “people who aren’t hurting anyone with their beliefs.” The issue is that there are plenty of people who do. Everyone needs to interrogate the ways in which they wield power. If not, it’s very easy for one’s beliefs to inform how others are impacted - which is entirely more subtle than people realize.
i clicked for khadija and stayed for greg catching strays lol
Yeaaaah Khadija ❤😍
KHADIJA!!!!!! The quick ess of the clicking for me. Not a fan of Jubilee but love ALL representation of Queer ess. This was especially awesome watching the OUTS show love and protection and acceptance for the INS. Great episode.
This was a really great video. It is so sad that the openly queer religious guy still can’t fully accept himself for who he is, and feels he has to be celibate to accept himself. Also I’m really proud of Curran for coming out. ❤ I hope the rest of the closeted ones can eventually come out and find peace and love in their journey, even if it’s not from their family.
Thank you!
greg is following his religion nothin wrong wit that
@@user-fw5gp2me9b I agree, and I thought he explained his position very well. I'm an atheist, but I feel like he really IS being authentic to his values and beliefs, and he seems to be a very caring and accepting person. Humans are full of contradictions and paradoxes, and yet somehow we find a way to continue existing.
Lol but he does accept his self? U don’t accept his religion or clearly respect it 😂
@@Curra1199 Is everything went well? I hope it is!
Y’all tripping Jubilee had to have thought of it too. For all you know Ocean probably isn’t his real name
Yeah. Ocean mentioned early in the video that his parents are Muslim immigrants. Do you expect Muslim immigrants to name their kid Ocean?
@@len-1768 my point exactly
yesss khadija!
The way they went off on Greg is kinda sad to me. He's not trying to impose his beliefs on anyone, and he's even admitting he could be wrong about his beliefs, but that it's just what he personally happens to believe.
I'm an atheist, and I fully see how religion has imposed a ton of trauma on the world. I am NOT a fan of religion in general. But on a personal level, if you don't try to impose it on everyone else and you feel more happy and true to yourself with that belief there should be space for that. He shouldn't have to force himself to not be celibate just to make people less uncomfortable with his personal belief
Agree 👍🏻 I felt sad for him 😭 but I still truly understand why they were upset about it.
Oh stop. Don’t victimize him for the premise of a show like this. They’re supposed to question each others beliefs. He’s not a victim for believing gay relationships are wrong and being confronted about it. Don’t start this narrative
Thank you, yes! That being a space for them to openly discuss and talk about their beliefs, they shouldn't be judged or hated for doing exactly that. They're not imposing anything on anyone. Some people say they're open minded but only if they agree with what others are saying
I felt this too, that's why i tried to acknowledge that he's doing it in a better way than others, not trying to impose his beliefs on everyone
Fr!!!
thank you for this. was truly beautiful to hear everyone's stories. I'm also so happy for curran.
Greg's experience is hardly unique. I love that Jubilee finally gave some representation to the Side B gay perspective on their channel.
I'm new to this term, what does Side B stand for?
@@malegazeofficialThink cassette tapes.... (Or Google 'em if you're too young to know of 'em)
@@alpachinko9154 ahh thanks! I've been raised on cassettes but haven't put that together here 🫠
@@alpachinko9154 ah thanks. I was raised on cassettes but didn't put that together here 👁👄👁
KHADIJA 😍💗
People demanding that their voices be modulated as if Jubilee made the decision unilaterally, are assuming that they didnt consent to the format.
Tbh, Jubilee has never given me cause to think they would ignore the concerns/safety of the panelists.
Not even once? What about the “Nina” and “Vegan” incidents? What about how they let these “discussions” promote all sorts of insane theories?
@@Adam-326what people choose to believe is up to them. Jubilee lets people talk. They’re not promoting anything besides a safe space for opinions and discussion. You can’t blame jubilee for someone else’s opinion. You can criticize them and they can do better, which, I assume, is why they have a mediator now. They don’t promote insane theories, the open a discussion and leave the viewer to their own interpretation. If you’re a person who is extreme and takes everything literally, that’s not jubilees fault because no matter what you’re going to be an extremist until you choose not to see everything in black and white.
But they also use their first names and dont change their voices at all
@@pleasedtomeetyou1284 Yeah, that would be fine if people could be trusted to be rational, which I’m sure that nobody would agree is the case, on either side. By platforming those people, they’re promoting their beliefs. Even if their audience is against it, it’s still out there in the aether.
plus, in the description it says they were given the option to modulate their voices
Congrats Curran 👏👏 You did something so brave, know that we are SO proud of you!
Their friends and family are probably not watching this video, but if they hear that someone they know is on it then theyd watch it and give them grieve.
Wait a minute I did not expect to see Khadija
Khadijah what are you doing here 💜💜😂💜💜
Coming back after watching my the video I understand why Khadijah would be on this episode. Andrew’s reveal had me so emotional and I hope nothing but positivity and grace for whatever happens after.
Congratulations, Curran!! That was really beautiful to watch
I just cries when curan came out! Hope everything went fine with you family and that all off you get all the love and suport you deserve ❤
Closted queer lets give them space its not our business why they dont want come out its their journey not ours. Let's be respectful.
THIS 👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼
It's weird to me. Most is self-inflicted. Why do people want to tell people about their sex life?
@reno419rockstar It's not about "telling people about your sex life". Even for straight people, who you're attracted to or dating is something that comes up all the time in casual conversations. Someone might complement your shirt and you'd say "thanks, it's a gift from my husband/boyfriend" etc. It's not that you're going out of your way to tell everyone who you're having sex with. Straight people are able to talk freely about their romantic partners without second thoughts, fear, or a need to hide, so they don't realize just how often this stuff comes up in day to day life. But if you're queer and closeted, you realize it a lot more because you have to often lie or just be mindful of what you say or show other people so you don't accidentally out yourself
@@reno419rockstarHomosexuality is randomly brought up SO much….nobody goes around shouting “I’m gay!” From the rooftops. We’re usually minding our business and the gay-obsessed folks come to us intruding. Also, that “sex life” part was weird.😂 Crazy how people associate every queer sexuality with sex and sex only.
@@reno419rockstar someone could just want to talk to friends about who they have a crush on or ask a retail worker for a suggestion for a gift for their husband/wife/spouse. Neither of those have any to do with someone’s sex life. There is a lot that has to do with attraction/ relationships that have absolutely nothing to do with discussing sex life
Khadija, i see you girll♥
Congrats Curran!!!!!!
Not even halfway in and some of these sweet stories have me teary :')
Yes Khadija👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
The tears at first for Curran and then the last convo with Sal and Greg. I'm glad she extended that olive branch.
It's so nice to finally see two groups talk on middle ground who aren't militantly barking at each other. Love the support between the two.
can we let Greg believe what he wants to believe? he's not imposing anything on anyone.... that's just what he believes.
yeah because everyone’s reaction was a bit too much... the same way they don’t wanna be penalized for the way they live their lives, they shouldn’t do that to him as well
He is imposing his beliefs. He literally wrote a book about it and his beliefs actively harm queer people. So no I’m not gonna respect his beliefs
@@grey8596how is it imposing his beliefs? Idk why people can’t live by their own opinion as if we don’t have free will, its 2024 you can live the way you want. There are so many religions, belief systems, values but its one person in a jubilee video that makes everyone tremble
@@kaylany74what were his beliefs can you state them
It would have been interesting to hear his opinion on if gay marriage should be legalized. I also appreciated the clarity that they got to by the end although it was a little uncomfortable