Breitling TOP TIME DEUS vs. SUGESS 'HOMAGE'
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- Hi all!
Here is my comparison of the Breitling Top Time Deus and the Sugess 'homage'
Now I know that these Chinese 'homages' are more or less copies of the watches they're modelled on, but this Sugess comes very close indeed - too close perhaps?
Very interested to read your comments as always.
The Sugess is available at;
www.aliexpress.com/item/10050...
Please like and subscribe - really helps me with the channel. Many thanks!
I’d guess 90% of the population have not heard of Brietling or Sugess. I’d also guess 90% of watches enthusiasts haven’t a clue BRIETLING do the top time or have a collab with Dues. Therefore anyone with the Sugess isn’t aiming to fool anyone in particular. For these reasons I like both watches - those who spent the £4k aren’t trying to show off their luxury item - and those who spent £150 aren’t trying to pretend to anyone they have a luxury item. Both just like the design. Win win.
A very fair point sir! 👍
Just, well said!
@ReDesign I 100% completely agree with you. When I first saw the Sugess, I just assumed it was their attempt to make an original design of a vintage looking watch. I had no idea it was an omage of the Brietling. I had never seen that watch before. Of all the watches to homage, I wonder why they choses that one.
Yes, but guess what? ... I pulled the trigger and bought a Sugess ST19 Mechanical Seagull Movement Chronograp Limited Racing 1963 from Amazon. Unfortunately it keeps stopping. I guess this is a replica of a replica ... LOL ... it has very bad QC so I ended sending it back to Amazon. I will NEVER again buy another Segull movement ... period!
Copage seems a cop out. 😊what about accuracy?
I couldn't afford the Breitling even if it was available, so the Sugess is the only option. I think they both look awesome and the differences in quality are minor compared to the price. Problem is my wife would kill me if I buy another watch in the near future 😹
🤣
😆 I feel your pain! Only so much one can sneak past our better halves too 😄👍
Most rich people only have a few luxury watches. Only the top 1% of the 1% can have any watch they want.. very very few rich people have that much expendable income (cash) to buy dozens of Swiss watches. Most I know that have several 10k plus watches, they financed them. Even my dr who owns a hugely successful practice.
U live for your self ! Just buy !
Get another wife !.
A couple of further points. Breitling, for a time used the Venus 175 movement, basically the same movement that the Sugess is using today. The Sugess also has a column wheel movement, where the Breitling operates using the cheaper to produce, cam-actuated movement, generally regarded in horological circles as a technically inferior system.
Great info there John! Thank you sir 👍
@@SirWatchGeek Some additional information. Despite Omega having you believe otherwise, it was actually a Poljot "Strela" that was the first chronograph in space, on the wrists of Russian cosmonauts. And guess what movement Strela used, a Venus column wheel chronograph, basically a movement with shared lineage to the Seagull/Sugess. The Soviets acquired the Venus movement in 1959, way before NASA had even tested the "Lemania" based Speedmaster, in the mid sixties. So, some real history for a couple of hundred quid!
@@johnwheat5199 I bow to your superior knowledge John! Great info again - and certainly does lift it above just being a 'Chinese watch' 😃👍
It's not a cheaper to produce movement, lol. The breittling without a doubt is built with better materials, better finishing, higher tolerances, better quality control, etc. that all greatly increase the reliability and cost.
I had a 1963 that lasted me 6 months. Breitlings don't break after 6 months.
@@Jake-bt3fc Any watch can, and regularly do, break within six months of purchase, and that includes Breitling!
Never fallen in love with Breitling, always found their dials a bit crowded. But this I love, found the Sugess without knowing of the original and immediately knew I needed one
Haha same happened to me
same !!
V2 of the sugess has improved the lume, with indeed acceptable performance. Hats off to Breitling for creating an attractive retro style watch that is very attractive & to sugess for providing the option for more than the 1500 select. I love mine
That's great info there! Thanks for that 👍. Carry on enjoying yours my friend 😃🙌
I just received my Sugess Chrono and it's simply stunning. The quality is impeccable and the only issue is I keep taking it off to stare at the movement! I have a lot of watches and this watch shot right to the top of my favorites. The price for these watches is almost unbelievable. My wife said it's the most beautiful watch I have.
I totally agree Hiram! Such a gorgeous movement 😃👍
I recently bought the Sugess as a "placeholder" until I can afford the real deal one day, but I have to say, I am stunned at how good it is. I keep reaching for it over my Speedmaster even!
I honestly think that the limited nature of the Breitling is EXACTLY why Sugess decided to copy it. It's such a gorgeous design and with only 1500 in the world, it's nice that anyone can get their has on it.
I don't know about Pagani, but Sugess now make a copage of both the newer, light blue Deus Top Time, as well as the Triumph Top Time!
Thanks for the great comparison video!
Thanks William! I'm definitely going to check out the other versions 😃👍
I wasn’t aware of the Breitling, but I don’t have an issue with this homage. The Breitling is unavailable and no longer made as far as I can tell. The Sugess display case back showing the ST 19 movement is lovely! A piece of horological history. I’m adding one to my collection. Cheers
I bought a Cadisen copy of the Sugess homage. I like the design of it. I changed the strap to look like the Sugess one and now the watch looks better than any other thing I own.
New to the channel. Great video! Thank you!
Just got mine, Sugess is definitely the most logical option it's good quality and alot less than the Bretling for essentially the same thing! Really have a new respect and love for this brand
Great comparison review mate. When I did my review of the Sugess a while back I was aware of the Bretiling, but I did make the mistake of thinking that it didn't have the lightning bolt hand, as like you said, it's a lot more subtle in comparison.
As you know I have quite a few homages in my collection and this is one of my favourites too. I think the fact that the original was such a limited run piece and also rather expensive makes it a prime candidate to be homaged. As most people would not be able to get hold of the original due to those factors.
I get what you mean about them making some more little changes to make it more of an 'original' design, but the fact that it is an homage or copage, is why people buy them though. When AliExpress brands try to do more original designs, like San Martin for example have started to do a bit lately, they just don't seem to sell as well. So, it's a bit of an awkward situation for them I guess. They are know for homages, so that's what people want from them. Where as people who don't like homages, probably wouldn't buy original designs from an 'homage' brand.
Out of interest where do stand on the blue dial version of this they have?
That's a great reply and you're absolutely spot on! Totally get what you're saying 👍.
Regarding the blue - I still prefer this colourway, for exactly those reasons you mentioned 😄👍
@@SirWatchGeek So you're part of the problem as well then 😉😆
@@HonestWatchReviewsHWR I absolutely am! 😄😄😄
@@SirWatchGeek You and me both mate 😆
Thank you for your review. I ordered a Sugess and I very satisfied with it. I am picky on mechanical watches. But this Chinese Seagull movement amazed me.
Thank you my friend. And I'm glad you're enjoying your watch! They are amazing value for money 😀👍
Sir, I am not in need of any watch whatsoever, but your presentation is so fun to watch, I just became a fan of your channel! Love your style and personality
Hi Marjolein! That is very kind of you to say 🤗
I love your honesty and i have a lot of respect for the Breitling watches. If money isn't an issue, I would think a lot of folks would still opt for the historical Breitling pieces. Cheers 😃😃😃
Loved your review, I watched ' til the end lol. I watch (no pun intended) a lot of reviewers, but I subscribed to your channel because you were able to hold my interest. ❤🇦🇺
That's very kind of you Rob! Really appreciate that my friend 😃🙏
You're welcome, thank you 😊
When I saw that Sugess, I really liked the design. It took me a few weeks to realize it was a copy of a Breitling. I would have never guessed Breitling, if I didn't see it myself. Great review.
Thanks very much Mike! 😀👍
I think homages of esoteric limited editions (as in this case) are far more acceptable than all the thousands of submariner homage divers. Honestly, I prefer some of the design details of the Sugess over the original, especially the case and lug shape, it (surprisingly!) looks more refined.
I own this watch and love it. It keeps the best time of any watch I've ever bought, including a Seiko Presage. To me it's beautiful as well.
I bought the the sugess a few months ago before I even new about the top time thought it looked fantastic, then I started to see comparison videos and realised it was a copy, did it bother me? A bit at first but no I love the design and couldn’t afford the breitling anyway. Another great video by the way!
Thank you my friend! The debate about homages will undoubtedly rage on for ever - but there's no denying, the Sugess is great value for money 😀👍
Hi. Nice video! I also did not know of the Breitling model, and to me the Sugess was an original design. Anyway, the build quality of Sugess, considering the price, is stunning. I bought a Sugess Moonphase Master Automatic and it is beautiful!
The SUGESS has the benefit of coming after, but the hand length on the SUGESS is better looking. The size of the pushers on SUGESS look better. In my opinion. Sometimes a watch that is replicating another watch can sometimes do some things better than an original. Like size, AR coating, Dials, and sometimes even a better watch. Especially cheaper watches, or watches that come less speced wise than they should. (SEIKO, CITIZEN, BULOVA, etc...)
Hmm, a modified Top Time was worn by JB in Thunderball. Lovely little chronograph. Thanks for the comparo. Very helpful. 👍
Thanks buddy! 😃🙌
Thanks for the amazing review..Seaguss it is for me 😅 off to order now***
Great review mate you’re extremely underrated. I’m looking at the Sugess but I’m not sure if the new loom comes on the blue version of it. I wondered if you knew.
That's extremely kind of you to say sir!
Afraid I don't know about the lume on the blue version. I would assume it to be the same?
@@SirWatchGeek Thank you very much anyway 👍
Great review and comparison! New subscriber here!
Thanks very much Chris! I've obviously subscribed right back 😀👍
Can’t seem to find the Sugess on Ali E , perhaps it is too similar and a lawyers letter has been sent ?
The Top Time Deus is such a vibrant model...love it :)
Thanks Amit. It's a cracker indeed! 😀👍
Entertaining, informative and unbiased video as always, Nigel - big fan of the channel and your sense of humour!
I was wondering, do you ever sell any of the watches you review? I have been looking for a "panda" style chronograph, ideally mechanical, and it seems Sugess/Seagull/Seakors is the most affordable option, so I think a Sugess piece is what I am after. It would be cool to own a watch that has been reviewed on a CZcams channel that I love and follow, it would add a bit of sentiment to my small and modest collection.
Keep up the brilliant work, Sir!
Hi Teodor. Thanks for your kind words sir - that's really made my day! 🤗
You know, I haven't sold any of my watches.....yet! Although now I have my new Navitimer, I've seriously got to think about selling my 46mm version. It's just not going to get any wrist time any more. I'm currently exploring the best way to sell it without incurring high fees.
I have to say the Chinese ST19 type watches represent such great value for money. I have heard some people say the movements don't always last too long, and the quality can be a bit hit or miss, but I think that's pretty rare considering how many watches they must sell.
I wore my other Sugess Panda dial the other day, and I found myself looking at it just as often as I do with my more expensive pieces 😄.
So I would say - go for it! I've had no problems at all with either of mine.
Please let me know if you get one, and what you think.
In the meantime, have a great day my friend! 😀👍👍👍
@@SirWatchGeek Really love this reply. The ST19 is such a wonderful movement, especially when combined with that display case back and so many unique styles that are available. Also the history of the movement is so incredible (basically a 60's Swiss movement that couldn't be sold to the USSR but was instead licenced to the Chinese including engineers being sent over to teach the engineers)
@@EdgyShooter I totally agree!
Great video as always, I agree, I wish Sugess would do some of their own designs because they’re reasonably priced but I think this Sugess is as close as they could get without a lawsuit. However I did read a while ago that Breitling are going to take legal action and this particular Sugess would soon be off the market…we shall see
Great video 👍
Thanks mate - and that's very interesting to hear!
How will they take legal action in china? Good luck with that one
Homaging a limited edition is EXCELLENT. Very smart move. It is their in-house (Chinese bought Swiss designed movement).
An Homage can be similar by a lot or a little, it still is an homage. If it is even by only the case or bezel people will still bring up a watch, and sometimes more than one watch that it resembles.
Thank you for the great video! Capage one's lug shape and text font look so ugly to me than original one.. ㅠㅠ
But i love the dial which looks more creamy and retro. and lovely display back and the PRICE
Thank you sir! Yes - the Sugess is undoubtedly superb value for money 😀👍
If it’s got a good movement I’m in,which this watch has. The amazing seagull movement with the swan neck regulator. Love your review/comparison. I never actually knew of the Breitling watch. They could have taken design cues from the watch but instead they copied it.
Best video about this watch
Thanks mate
That's very kind of you! Thank you sir 😀👍
Can you put a metal bracelet on the sugess watch? If it has the leather strap
You certainly can Michael! It has a 20mm lug width so plenty of choice. Some of the other Sugess watches with the same case (but different style) do have the option of coming with a bracelet. My earlier review of one of these mentions the metal bracelet - which wasn't very good quality to be honest! Hope this helps 😀👍
Clomage for sure, but I'm hugely glad they did it because i had no idea Top Time existed before i found the clone. I usually hate copies, but kinda like they drew from a super limited design that's no longer in production.
Where did you get that great tan strap on the Breitling please Sir?
Hi there Danny! Yeah - that strap is actually from my Certina DS PH200M. I'm a devil for swapping straps over 😄. Thanks for watching 🙌
I am sad. Would love to have the vintage chinese movement in a manual chronograph, but do not want to watch the red star on the dial, neither want to wear a homage. is there a seagul movement wavch out there which is not a homage, except the Seagull 1963?
A többi Sugess például, de az 1963-ból is van vörös csillag nélküli.
Very fair review. And good suggestion to breitling. Very good watch from sugess at the price.
I like the Sugess better aesthetically and I own it also. I would say this is an homage. There are many differences which set it apart from the Breitling. #1 being the entirely different movement and exhibition case back, the cream dial, seconds hand being more jagged, more lume on the indices and hands, the placement of the numbers on the left side of the chrono, tachymeter in english, straight lines at the tips of the indices as opposed to box shapes, obvious different fonts and words on the main part of the dial, seconds marker indications, minutes hand and chrono hands being longer and what looks to be thicker, no "swiss made" indication, strap coloration and stitching, lug pattern, shorter push buttons on top and bottom, smaller more pronounced crown, etc etc etc. I would find it very hard to say this is a near copy to the Breitling.
At this point you are just trying to convince yourself and it looks sad. A different hue, font or slightly differently shaped material does not make a watch a hommage it's called copying while making sure you can't get sued by the original brand. I can promise you if you were in the incredible position of designing a watch for Breitling in collaboration with Deus which probably took a team of hard working people and a long time to develop and agree on this very unique design, you would not appreciate to see a chinese brand release this flagrant rip off of what you created a few months later for a ridiculous fraction of the price. Imagine spotting the piece you created walking the streets and get all excited just to come close and realise it's a chinese copy bought off AliExpress with a different badge.
@@hokindee8044 it's definitely a homage, how you feel about it doesn't change the definition of the word. If that were the case all dive watches would be copies, all panda dails would be copies,all chronographs, etc all watches are based off another watch. Better never buy a pair of Wranglers cause they're copies of Levi's. It's a great design so they changed enough to make it a homage, you notice how most LED TV's and cars look similar? it's done in ever aspect of art and design. Some people are passionate about watches others in just brand name and prestige. You can like them for whatever reason you like at the end of the day there are two great watches with great mechanical movements in two totally different leagues.
@@johnhormaza5469 Like said in the video hommage is when you take a few elements and pay respect. The principle of Panda dials is extremely basic and classic in design, you cannot own a white dial with black central hands, just like you can't claim a blue diver or a black dial chronograph that's silly. And you validate my point yourself by comparing classic designs used by all brands which is of course a practice accepted in all commercial products design with this particular example where they copied a very specific release which is a special collaboration between 2 brands. You cant compare something as common and simple in design as jeans with a special edition piece between 2 companies to commemorate the history of their brands. If you don't get the nuance I can't help you more, just stay happy buying chinese knockoffs. But best believe these chinese brands are not trying to pay respect by copying every single aspect of the watch and how elements are placed on the watch, they are just trying to ride the wave of success from established horology icons which is just lazy and maybe smart in the way because there will always be people like you to buy them. I just feel bad for the Breitling and Deus design team who probably spend months making this just for a chinese brand to go "This. Let's do this one next it looks unique and fun and the design is pre-made served on a platter. Let's make the same but way cheaper. Oh they making it a limited edition for passionate fans of their brands? Well we'll make ours a wide release so everyone can buy one and no one feels special buying a unique piece made for the fans of their brands"
Also curious what is the difference between a replica and a hommage to you? Cause it seems to me that in your world, no watch is a replica everything can be called a hommage as long as the company logo is different?
@@hokindee8044 I will respond and address your points as delicately as I can so as not to lead to hard feelings. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and this is completely the case without facts. I stated my facts early on. First, attacking my observation (which had facts that are easily seen) by calling me sad starts us off on the wrong foot but I'll forgive you ;) If you use the term "copy" that could be considered as an imitation of the original which makes a stronger point for your opinion but it still doesn't change the fact that this is far from a direct copy for every reason I stated above. This is the reason I lean toward calling this an homage but you can lean the other direction if you choose and we can agree to disagree. In a court setting I would love to see how it plays out and I'm sure there are some good arguments for both sides but ultimately I would say justice has failed if Breitling were to win. Breitling shot themselves in the foot with this one right out of the gate making it a limited edition. Of course anyone who wanted one of these original watches would have a very difficult time obtaining one. So, if I designed their watches I would want everyone to have a chance at owning one respectively. This is what makes watches that resemble them so appealing and since they are out of stock by their own choosing to limit them I have no problem with Sugess honoring their design. I recently purchased a Corguet chronograph which if you look up is an Homage to the Omega Speedmaster Professional. In all due respect to the original it made me WANT to get the original which is widely available to compare it and to have the real deal. I did buy the original and I love them both for different reasons. So if anything, it helped Omega in my case. I would also have enough humility and gratitude to see anyone wearing an homage or an original watch of my design. Direct copies I would have a problem with hence why it is illegal. I hope this puts it in perspective from one watch enthusiast to another.
@@g1toys2014 definitely no hard feelings and no personal attack intended, I love a good debate and I blame the homage misconception more than your personal taste. Like you said we can agree to disagree but I gotta admit you got me even more confused with your example of buying a $75 AliExpress Speedmaster just to then eventually buy the real deal and then to say the cheap chinese version did Omega a favour by convincing you to buy it. When you say if you were the designer you would want anyone to be able to get it, that's noble, but what if the whole idea for them was to make it a collector item? A special edition? Is that not disrespectful to take that away from them by making cheaper and widely available version of the watch? Does that mean every knock off chinese brands making fake limited edition Jordans are just doing a social service to consumers then by making them cheaper and more available? My point with the homage is that they should only repeat certain elements of a watch. Like the author of the video pointed out if they didn't have the orange and yellow accents on the right hand side of the watch it would have been more believable as a homage. Maybe even drop the lightning bolt hand and leave the rest. You are meant to flatter the brand you are homaging, most of the time even by bringing your own twist and touch to their original model. The core idea of a homage is to use classic elements of watchmaking, bring back signature and iconic elements of the past: the fluted bezel of a Datejust, Berguet, Mercedes or cathedral hands, a mother of pearl dial...etc In this case this particular orange collaboration was released in the first quarter of last year and replicated months later. In my personal opinion this is not homaging an icon of the past, it is way too soon to call it a homage but maybe that's just me.
Here is my idea of a homage watch that I purchased to give you an idea and prove that I am not a snob thinking homage watch are not a real thing. I always liked the IWC Portuguese IW371404 but can't afford it, so I did some research and found the Citizen eco drive BU3020-15E which allowed me to have the same feel with the vertical reverse panda dial and the aligned horizontal text in the middle. Now notice all the different elements of the watch and I'm talking noticeable difference not "slightly different shaped orange lightning bolt hand". The Citizen does not have the 12 hours numerals appearing on the dial, the hands are different, the Citizen is not a chronograph and has a modest calendar and 24 hours sub dial, the hands in the sub dials are not blue like on the IWC, the minutes indices only show every 10 minutes as opposed to every 5 minutes...etc You get the vibe of the watch without having every single visual aspects of the Portugeiser which in my eyes makes it a nice and humble homage, it picked key elements and did its own thing. If you have to justify a homage by describing how the font is different, the tone of cream in the dial is slightly different or the sub dial hands are 1 mm shorter than the original are you sure your watch doesn't tend more toward a replica than it is a homage?
Also I'd like to add than Im not a Sugess hater. I still have the Seagull 1963 Air Force on my list of watch to own and appreciate their gorgeous ST1901 movement. But at the end of the day from a watch enthusiast to another my first rule is that you should wear what you want not what people tell you to do. So all power to you. I just love debating on the topic of homage watch and tend to get triggered sometimes :)
Yup. I’m definitely into Sugess
I’m buying that one with the orange strap
Honestly, I’ve yet to hold a luxury watch I don’t feel is theft. $4000+ for a Breitling is steep when a cheapo from China can cover all the bases fairly well. Same with Tudor watches which are cheaply made divers vastly inferior in finishing when compared to most microbrands. All we pay for is marketing these days, and watch brands that actually put in some artistry are well beyond the price range of boring models. Those are actually worth it, like Lange.
I agree it is a mystery why Sugess made an homage of such an obscure watch. I have to admit, I bought this watch having no idea that it was homaging the Brietling. I actually thought they had made an original design of a 70's style watch. I bought it just because I liked the old school look. I was surprised when I later found out it was an homage. Why didn't they change the design a bit just so it doesn't look like a copy of the original? Because that's not the goal! They want this watch to look as close to the original as possible without being a straight up copy because that's what their customers want.
Absolutely agree with you Sinjin!
Nice video. I would say a copy is when you purchase a fake brietling from somewhere like trustytime. And, you try and pass it off for an origina breitling. Where as this is definitely an homage, since the watch maker has its name proudly stamped on the dial. Just my thoughts.
Excellent video. Just subscribed, first time seeing one of your videos. Well it does certainly come extremely close to if not cross the homage line to being a copy but possibly a homage label could be justified due to better lume, the darker dial, and the exhibition caseback? From a distance though, it's a copy. You could find yourself in the situation of someone who knows watches, say "Nice Breitling....!! And then," Oh sorry, you have a fake! Lol. However being no watch snob, though I wouldn't wear it personally, it's a very good looking watch, thanks to Breitlings design team. Of course most normal people won't know, and just think it's a nice watch. If someone likes it, they should buy it.
Hi Brian. Thanks very much for your kind words my friend 😀, and great comments! Always such a divisive subject 😄. Take care buddy 👍
Really love the blue lume
The irony is that Breitling once used the actual Venus 175 in the past which was eventually bought by the Chinese and became the ST19 used in the Sueguess here. Having said that when I've seen vintage Venus 175 movements they have far better finish than the modern ST19.
Thanks for the info Michael! 😃👍
I almost bought the Sugess, unaware it was an homage of the Breitling Deus. Breitling isn't making the Deus so fair game but the real fly in the ointment is the ST movement which is great fun to look at but inconsistent on a Q/C level.
Yeah I've heard they can be a bit hit and miss. My other Sugess is still going strong, although it's not worn that often! 👍
Hi! Great video. I wanted the Sugess but worried that the lug to lug would make the watch too big for my 6inch wrist. But it looked nice on your wife's wrist.
Hi Daniel. Thanks for your kind words 😀. I’ve just measured my wife’s wrist, and it’s 6.5 inch (I had no idea until now 😄). How different will that be to 6”? Also worth noting that wrist shape plays an important part. The more oval, or flat, the less impact lug-to-lug distance will make.
I still say go for it! 😀👍👍👍
@@SirWatchGeek thank you for the feedback. I went to order one and I'll update here once it gets on my wrist. 😁
@@danieldavidmurillo7730 Excellent! Yes please let me know how it goes 😀👍
Just got the watch and I can definitely wear this Sugess even with my 6in wrist. I think I would wear this for a whole week straight! 🤣 Thanks for your insights @SirWatchGeek!
@@danieldavidmurillo7730 That’s great news Dan! Wear it in good health my friend 😀🙌
Bought the Cadisen as I prefer the square pushers and it is the newer swan neck version. Great watch, had no clue that there was a Breitling model in the same flavour.
yes I have one of these as well - I also prefer the square pushers but also the filleted sides of the case go that extra step. I also didn't know it was a homage to a Breitling, I actually thought it was another take on the seagull 1963 chrono. The Cadisen is a nice watch though with its domed AR coated crystal and cheaper than the Sugess.
My negatives are the Sugess typography choices. There's a Chinese restaurant chain in India called "Mainland China" which uses a very similar typeface (or font). That typeface (at 6 and on caseback) looks comical.
I’m always amazed and don’t understand why people still try to compare watches that cost thousands with watches costing hundreds. If it would not be for copies/homages or “ copages 😂 “ more than 90% of people would never be able to afford or willing to spend the thousands of dollars for a Rolex, Omega, etc, etc…
Great video ! I subscribed….. Thank you
Thanks Joey! And a happy new year to you 🙌. It's always a divisive subject, but I personally think it was very useful to compare the two - it lets people know exactly what they're getting for the money, and highlights how scarily close these 'copages' are! 😄👍👍👍
@@SirWatchGeek Thank you, I agree with you ! I also want to wish you and your family a Happy New Year with lots of happiness, and especially Health….
I have a Sugess 1963 swan neck but only get 24ish hours from the specified 30 winds. I've heard a few others say the same so no idea where this 40 hour power reserve is coming from. Maybe I'm not winding it enough.🤷♂️
Very interesting, John! I'll do a little test with my two ST-1901's, and let you know the result 😃👍
Hi John! Well - I've done some tests, with some surprising results! My Panda Sugess took 30 winds to fully wind it (winder wouldn't wind any more) and it lasted for 34 hours. Not quite 40, buy better than 24!
My 'Top Time' Sugess took 39 winds to fully wind, and lasted for 51.5 hours! 😮😄 Don't quite know what to make of that 🙅♂
Rewind the main spring until it is fully rewound, until you can’t wind further.
@@SirWatchGeek sugess are buying the better quality movements.
Well, I gone done it and ordered one. Great little watch. The most dressy looking wristwatch I own. No complaints and that despite moi being ornery and picky.
Bonjour
Je la trouve juste sublime , très belle revue .
Effectivement hommage ou copie la frontière et mince mais je dois dire bravo je la trouve superbe et elle rend hommage à une montre très limitée
Merci pour vos commentaires monsieur 😃🙌
I don't understand horology sometimes. Other industries have are almost dependent on copies; the fashion industry for example, knock-offs/homages abound. In the US guns M-16/AR-15 are made by dozens of companies; The Colt M1911, Beretta 9mm etc are inspirations for various gun manufacturers. Even Oreos began as an homage/copy/whatever to Hydrox. Some how watches are 'levitating' above the rest of us? Enjoy the homages, no one is confusing a Pagani with an Omega.
Obviously the B is a superior watch, but I always wonder what the actual cost to manufacture is vs what they charge.
The idea of originality is quite relative. Sugess poses an philosophical question one could argue. This makes makes the Sugess watch a work of conceptual art leading the public to invent descriptions such as 'copage'.
I just came across this as it was an attractive looking watch. I didn't really know that this was a homage to Breitling. Ultimately, I'm not spending thousands of pounds on a watch design when I can get a cheaper alternative instead. It's like the whole iPhone vs Android phone comparisons. iPhones are known to be very expensive but you can get a Samsung/Huawei phone that does the same thing (if not more) for a cheaper price. You're just really paying extra for the brand name. Even the build quality are near identical.
Sugess looks right for me. It seems to be extremely well made using a movement with a great and reputable history.
If the sugess said Breitling on the dial then its a copy in my eyes, great review and i suppose copage does cover it.
I quite agree that, only in the most passing of glasses would it ever be mistaken. It's not trying to fool anyone, it's just taking advantage of a lovely design with their own tweaks
Nice review. Just added your channel. The Chinese are masters of the cloned homage. I would never spend so much on a Breitling so Sugess here we come!
Thank you kind sir! Much appreciated 🙌 And you'll love the Sugess! 😀👍
The Ice Blue Breitling Top Time Triumph copage you were thinking of wasn't Pagani, it was Sugess as well. I have both, the Sugess Triumph and the Deus, as well as 3 other Sugess watches. I'm becoming quite a fan of them... They make a vintage Zenith copage I've got my eyes on next.
Fabulous! Thanks for the info my friend. I think I'm going to check out that Sugess 'Triumph'! 😃👍
I had to laugh that the Sugess ice blue has the power reserve which looks just great where it is. Almost a middle finger to Breitling.
At least the dial color is a bit different. I came across this on eBay and it struck my eye. I didn’t realize it was a comage to Breitling. I am reluctant of the 51mm lug to lug. I have a 7” wrist but don’t really like oversized watches. I do prefer a max 48mm lug to lug.
Hi Joel! Yeah - the different dial colour certainly helps. And I do agree with you on the lug to lug - they could easily reduce that by a couple of mm at least 👍👍👍
I have the cadisen version of this watch really nice
It’s just fun. I think I’ll get one. It’s not hurting Breitling sales.
My guess is they bothered to copage 😁an unknown limited edition watch because its such a damn beauty 😍I absolutely love it and am about to order one and maybe the blue face aswell 😃
The blue dial version is super nice! Enjoy my friend! 😃🙌
Nice wall clock!
Thanks very much! 😀👍
Sugess now on sale now for less than £137!
Bargain! 😀👍👍👍
@@SirWatchGeek My thoughts exactly! Also ended up getting an extra strap due to the price drop so they still got more of my money 😅
@@EdgyShooter 😆😆😆
ngl, I love the design of the watch, but finding out that the Sugess is a copy leaves a sour taste. Such a beautiful watch though
I have the Sugess & love it. Real accurate results on the Weichi meter. The Breitling seems like a waste of money.
In my opinion, it's not a homage, it's a copy. Not to the exacting standards of the Breitling, but pretty darn close. From a distant, you could possibly assume that it's a Breitling. That being said, the Seagull ST19 movement with the swans neck regulator is a good and fairly accurate movement. I wouldn't mind owning the Sugess, but I would definitely change the chronograph seconds hand. I don't like it on either watch.
What bothers me about the Breitling is the seconds hand and right sub dial hands are off a bit for a very expensive watch but the Sugess' hands are basically right on the money...
Love the Sugess
It is a copy when the brand name is on it. Rolex is actually a copy with many design items that are from other manufacturers.
I have a Seagull 1963 and the dilemma, the price Seagull charges, and the others that make it. The labeling
that is different, and the matter of the wearer to not pass it off as here, Breitling. Greater concerns in the world.
Most other reviews say sugess has an AR coating
This comment is one year later than your review and although I have read some of the comments I have not read then all!! Two important differences that you do not mention in the review are:
1. The Breitling is an officially certified chronometer and the Surgess most certainly is not! Unless things have changed, Breitling officially certify ALL their watches, even those with a (super) quartz movement the spec which is (if I remember correctly) a mere 0.02 seconds per day!
2. The Breitling (and here I'm making an assumption) has hacking(?) but the Sugess does not. This point is a potential deal breaker for me since it makes syncing the second hand to the minute hand a little bit problematic to say the least. However, I love the look of the watch a great deal and have ordered one myself at the current "Stock Clearance Sale" Price of 170 Euros ( about 140-150 GBP) with the rubber strap and swan-neck fine-adjust regulator like yours and 154 Euros for the standard regulator with leather strap.
So, does the Breitling hack?!!
it's sad really, I would probably buy a sugess if they made their own design, sure an homeage is cool but I believe with this calibre it can make a name for itself!
They're totally different pieces. There's no "in benzin veritas"' written on the side of the Sugess dial ;-)
If they tried to duplicate the Breitling name on the dial I’d say it was a copy. The fact that they are clearly stating who the manufacturer is they’re not trying to fool anybody as to what your wearing. In my opinion they are actually complimenting the original manufacturer with their watch.
Tolle Uhr zum super Preis !
Considering a Sugess Chrono Heritage, they should chill on the copying… and do their own variations like you said.
Thanks for the review, very interesting. I am probably now going to buy the Sugess, but since you asked: I'd call it a copy when its a copy. I realise you didn't mention the lug shape (which suggests you didn't notice it) is quite different too, so if its a copy its a poor attention to detail copy. Also I suggest you look carefully again at the reflections from the surfaces because if it didn't have AR on the inside you'd perhaps see another reflection set from the inside surface (bouncing back off the sapphire / air junction) on the inside surface of the crystal. It looks a little like this: czcams.com/video/aN_C0-cn3jA/video.html
So I'm interested to know, when do you think its a counterfeit and not a copy? Personally I think its a copy when it (like a photocopy or a copy of a document) presents itself as the original with _no changes_.
The Brietling looks like the homage lol
That Sugess has it beat in every way
I wouldn't go as far as to say that 😄, but bang for your buck, the Sugess is pretty hard to beat! 😃👍
Copying isn’t simple, especially when you have to copy a watch for the fraction of the price of the original. Frankly, I prefer almost 1:1 homages, with the decency, not to replicate, but the attention to detail to be able to make a copywatch.
Almost all the original designs are exhausted. Everything is going to be an homage of an original design or an evolution of an original design. If you don’t have a brand name, you’re making homages or frankenwatches. If you have a brand name, you’re making an evolution or a reinterpretation of an original design.
I don’t see any possibility in unknown watch brands to make anything truly original, unless it’s really ugly or really expensive.
If you can make the same “watch” for a fraction of the price, using inferior materials & new technology. I wouldn’t call it a failure. -Palladium plated, nickel fluted bezels really blew my mind & PVD made vermeil obsolete.
Hi , would you be interested in selling your sugess?
Hi Kevin. Unfortunately, my wife love it! 😄
Great video Nigel 👍 I don't have an issue when a manufacturer takes design cues from another watch but inserts in their design its own peculiar design elements...then the net result in my opinion is a true homage. However, these Chinese watches are basically running copies, as close as possible to the originals.... All of this aside, it's incredible what these Chinese manufacturers can offer for a fraction of the cost of original pieces. The Sugess is without a doubt a fantastic piece for the price. For most is as close as it will get to the Breitling...and maybe that's ok..... thank you my dear friend for a terrific video and your insight. Cheers
Thanks Rafael! It's such a divisive subject. I swing from being against them, to loving them! 🤷♂️😄👍
@@SirWatchGeek To be honest Nigel so do I ... Sometimes I think "no", and then I also love them. I must also confess that I have my fair share of them lol... Have a wonderful weekend my friend.
@@felo6035 You too Rafael 😀👍
The better looking strap of the Sugess elevates it above the Breetling
It’s frustrating when a company releases a nice looking design and then makes it a limited edition. That can put the potential customer in a bind because you have to either buy it right at that moment or possibly never have a chance to own it.
yeah - I'm really not sure why they made this particular one a limited edition. They'd definitely have sold a hell of a lot more!
I am sure those who can afford the Breitling will find the Sugess a blatent copy. While it is a copy for the most part, most of us can not justify spending that much on a watch even if you could buy it. I will be buying the Sugess as it is a good quality watch with a design that I really like, that I can afford. Sure I would rather have the Breitling. In the group of people I hang with no one would know or care about the difference anyway. It is all for my enjoyment.
I like the Sugess and find it is as good as the Breitling at a 10th of the cost. Well done China.
You're not wrong there! I have no complaints on the quality either 👍
Instead I say: why don't they go full copy? Just fix those two differences: add AR coating, and make discreet subdials, charge us extra $50 and here you go. Top value.
I know what you're saying, but then it will definitely be a fake. At least they can get away with this! 😄👍
I like homages when they have some differences to the original. I love Steinhart watches, which are assembled in Germany with premium Swiss-made components, Steinhart watches showcase quality materials with German precision in attractive timepieces that are incredibly well-received by watch enthusiasts. However, when watches like this Sugess ST19 Seagull Movement Chronograph "Military Limited Racing 1963" show up touting it as a "Homage" it really stretches the meaning of "Homage". This Chinese watch is closer to a replica than a homage. I am surprised that they got away with it, but then again, where are replicas made anyway? Yes, you got it, China. I rather go with the original Segul design, loved by a niche of watch enthusiast and aficionados, than buying something that makes me feel like a I'm breaking the law ... lol. But I must admit, is darn nice and I am tempted now to buy it. Call me a criminal if you like, but hey, the price difference makes for a compelling deal!
Totally agree with you there! I have yet to purchase a Steinhart - going to seriously look at changing that! 😄👍
@@SirWatchGeek I pulled the trigger and bought a Sugess ST19 Mechanical Seagull Movement Chronograp Limited Racing 1963 from Amazon. Unfortunately it keeps stopping. I guess this is a replica of a replica ... LOL ... it has very bad QC so I ended sending it back to Amazon. I will NEVER again buy another Segull movement ... period!
@@Mauricio.Solorzano So sorry to hear that! I have heard of some bad experiences with the movement. I don't wear mine often enough for any problems to have manifested yet. I suppose it's very much a case of - you pays yer money, you takes yer chance perhaps?
There was no need to coin the term "Copage". The Sugess is a homage like any of the other watches that mimic more famous commercial designs but apply their own branding. A fake or replica item would have been branded as Breitling. The Sugess is not trying to con anyone
A homage is only an homage (or a copy) if you know what it is copying it from. It doesn't bother me (i don't own either watch) but I don't care if it is a copy or not. I only care if it looks good and if it feels quality. The only thing I don't do are replicas because while designs aren't trademarked, logos are and are considered intellectual property.
It's hard for me to understand how an homage and a copy are one in the same. When you photocopy a letter it does not come out slightly different with different spellings, sentence structure or punctuation. I can however deal with the matter based on subjective opinion.
It’s a copy when it has the name of the high dollar watch on it, anything else is just a homage.
To me it's simple, does it have the name Brietling on it? No, Homage. Yes, Copy/counterfeit. One is legal, the other seeks to defraud its customers. The more expensive the original is, the more unobtainable (either by design -- Rolex -- or by circumstance) the more reasonable it is to do the homage. That's what I think.
I think that sugess is telling us / showing us that watches don't need to cost thousands of dollars. They're making a point by making it exactly like this breitling. Imho, l get it and l agree with sugess, only because l don't care to boast about how much my watches cost, l boast about how they look and feel.
Be careful I Like Watches got pulled by you tube for using the term copage