People seem to forget that Protoman wasn't programmed to be a hero, but programmed to eliminate the evil forces that were enslaving humanity. The biggest threat to the peoples' freedom just happened to be their unwillingness to fight for it. When Protoman realized this, he reasoned that the people themselves were their own biggest threat to freedom and had to be destroyed.
But then you consider that they wouldn't be enslaved in the first place if it wasn't cause someone like Wily had 100% control over them... So although it may be true that the people's negligence and over reliance on others contributes absolutely nothing on their salvation, it's not really true that they are their worst enemy in this case. Cause it is Wily who is oppressing them, they are just too scared and weak willed to fight back. Logic would dictate that Wily's elemination should be a priority in terms of evils, the citizens are just a lesser pest at worst . All in all I think Protoman abandoned them for a more emotional reason; why save ungrateful bastards that won't lift a finger for you, even when you are risking your life to help them?
I thought he was made to be, (according to hope rides alone) "A device to bring about a change" "A machine to bring freedom" And "A man to save the world"
Protoman's last words... Even as a jaded and cynic nihilist who took up arms and fell against his own brother because of the passive humans that wouldn't stand for themselves against evil and tyranny, he still had hope for humanity. He still hoped that even if these humans that stood before him held no heroes that the next generation would. Holy shit. Protoman, those people didn't deserve you.
Protoman's approach in saving them was flawed in the first place. He died alone, because he fought alone, and he fought alone because he went alone. At no point did it seem like he railed the masses or trained them to take on Wily's armies beside him.... He just charged like an arrow by himself, and then basically did the Pikachu face when nobody else followed. It's a human reaction, a natural flaw to get furious at the victims for not helping him take on their oppressor... But given the context of everything, even Protoman was wrong in his decision. Not for fighting for people that "didn't deserve" saving, but to rush to his death without a real plan, and keeping grudges on others for it.
@@zettovii1367 He was a robot that didn't fully comprehend his emotions. As you say it's a common human flaw. And humans have evolved to deal with their emotions. Protoman was built, and likely didn't have the same ways of processing them we do. As for 'his' plan: Light told him "fight." So he fought.
@@alansmithee419 Yeah... Dr.Light might have been a genius scientist for being capable of building one man armies like ProtoMan and MegaMan with nothing but scraps, but it's clear he ain't any leader material. Guess it all can be accounted as the foolishness of man, making things worse for oneself by rushing ahead in an attempt to ride it out alone, unlike how'd it be if you tried to forge something with others. Being a group of Protomen instead of the lone man, because One ain't enough for a change if it stays as one.
I love how he’s all at once bitter for the way he’s suffered, angry at the humans, angry at Megaman-but in a way, it still sounds like he’s trying to goad them into action. Still trying to force their hand, to get man to do something. I feel like the thing that Megaman doesn’t realize until the end is that Protoman is trying to save *him*. From being a trained attack dog for humanity. If he can just goad humanity to act-maybe they’ll save Megaman from a similar fate. I don’t think his final words were to the humans. His words were to Megaman. To let him know he doesn’t have to throw his life away. That Thomas Light was no better than Wily in the end. When Joe dies, Light gives up all hope of man saving itself-but turns again to hands of steel to fix all of man’s problems. When Protoman “dies”, Light hides Megaman away so that he doesn’t question his purpose (Unrest in the House of Light). Protoman’s dying wish is for Megaman to be free to choose for himself. In a way, both brothers end more “human” than humanity itself. It’s masterful writing.
@@stygian1522 Megaman is not a "trained attack dog." Light specifically tries to get him to stay home. He doesn't build Megaman to save humanity, he builds him because he wants a son, and he's grieving for Protoman. Unrest in the house of light is when Megaman, against his father's wishes, chooses to avenge Protoman by defeating Wily.
"the fight of protoman"... never before have I heard a line sung with such... anguish, grief and rage. The emotion is palpable and painful to behold. Beautiful, wonderful and terrible... and this is a fucking megaman song. Why did these people care more about their art than most artists... ever?
Because video games, even the simple little stories my generation grew up with, are art. Just listen to the beginning of this song. That's video game storytelling translated into pure audio storytelling. For someone like me, who grew up with these games, that just immediately brings back the picture of a small blue warrior standing at the left, readying his weapon for a duel. Now *that* is how you appeal to nostalgia. ;D
It's a relatively small detail, but around 1:27 the crowd representing mankind begins to cry out to Mega Man: "Destroy him!" & "You can save us!" but there's something about the way the vocals layer over each other that almost makes it sound like they're saying "You can save him!" and I feel that detail adds a lot of weight to the narrative. This band is in a league of its own in terms of artistry.
Here’s a morbid thought I had. In _Hope Rides Alone,_ there is a drum solo after “The death of Protoman” which can be interpreted as representing the Robot Masters tearing him to shreds. In this song, a very similar drum track is played after Mega Man says “you are the dead”, leaving the crowd to be massacred by Wily’s robots.
It's about the realization that humanity can be the only ones to save themselves, else they will just recreate the monsters that they are suffering under now.
You have no choice. (Megaman) I'll stand beside you. (Protoman) I stand alone. (Megaman) You're still their hero. (Protoman) Then they are fools. (Megaman) This cannot be the only way! (Protoman) You will see. (Megaman) They don't deserve this. (Protoman) When this is through, (Megaman) Now more than ever, (Protoman) Mankind will fall. (Megaman) We are their hope! (Protoman) They would not stand. (Megaman) They know no better. (Protoman) They would not fight. (Megaman) They are not ready. (Protoman) They never will. (Megaman) Even now there is hope for man! (Protoman) My father's words! (Megaman) Your father loved you. (Protoman) He still believes? (Megaman) His heart was broken. (Protoman) His only weakness. (Megaman) His greatest strength! (Protoman) Now we shall see (Megaman) You are not evil. (Protoman) If they will stand (Megaman) You are not broken. (Protoman) Beside their hero (Megaman) We both know they'll never fight! You finally get it. There are no heroes. Mankind is doomed. You will never have another Hero. You will never have another chance. You will fall Because you never tried to stand for yourselves! Destroy him! You can save us! Destroy him! You're our only hope! KILL PROTOMAN!!! If these people Tell this story To their children As they sleep Maybe someday They'll see a Hero Is just a man Who knows he is free He could not save himself. How could he save us? (Mankind) For all the blood he shed, (Megaman) As I live (Mankind) Your brother failed us. (Megaman) There is no evil that will stand (Mankind) There's nothing you could do. (Megaman) And I will finish (Mankind) You had no choice. (Megaman) What was started (Mankind) Why do you cry for him? (Megaman) The fight of Protoman! (Mankind) You are our hero. You are our hero! You are the dead. We are the dead. We are the dead. We are the dead.
The parts that always get me are: "Why do you cry for him?"; "He could not save himself. How could he save us?" and "You will NEVER have another hero... You will NEVER have another chance! You will FALL, because you never tried to stand for yourselves!"
I see Megaman differently. He was willing to do all the fighting, but it was this moment that broke him. Being forced to fight the man he idolized was bad enough. But then, the people of the city urged him to kill the fallen hero who had nearly died trying to save them.
"And as I live There is no evil that will stand And I will finish What was started, the fight of Protoman!" Always gives me goosebumps since Megaman says this as he sets out to fight Wily, And then he says it again after he killed his brother... Just something about that is epic.
"If these people tell this story to their children as they sleep, maybe some day they'll see a hero is just a man who knows he's free." Oh, like Sniper Joe? //shot
It wasn't Willy's henchmen who had killed Protoman's spirit. It was but the selfishness and cowardice of those he fought for. When Light tells his son: "You came here to avenge his death, you came here to save mankind, but you see now... you cannot do both.", he meant that mankind was the one who had really killed Protoman. It takes more than one man to win a war, and there were no heroes left in man.
Am I the only one who hears a faint “stop!” Just before the crowd says “kill protoman”? I like to think that voice is dr light still trying to save his first son.
nah, the lyrics are "DESTROY HIM! DESTROY HIM! (YOU CAN SAVE US!) DESTROY HIM! (YOU'RE OUR ONLY *HOPE!* ) KILL PROTOMAN!" The "STOP" you hear is actually "HOPE"
I hear it, and have heard it since it came out. In this video it's at 1:36, right before 1:37. I've head-cannnoned it to be an aged Sniper Joe coming to make a difference one last time.
It's a running theme, throughout both albums, that mankind has brought Wily's tyranny on itself, and seeks to perpetuate it. The whole point is that they won't fight for themselves, and therefor don't deserve freedom, and this is proven when Mega Man walks away and the crowd, that was just calling for Protoman's blood, chooses to be massacred rather than fight back.
Megaman: You're still their hero Protoman: Then they are fools. Is it just me or does Protomans line there come off as more self loathing then contempt? Like hes admonishing them as fools because he considers himself a failure for not stopping Wily and falling into his clutches himself?
Cal Whitehead "Tom listen to yourself, and listen carefully to me. If you replace the working parts, you get a different machine. The man who turns the wheels, they will follow anywhere he leads."
Proto Man is the same Proto Man who died in "Hope Rides Alone" he lost faith in the people of the city because they left him to die when he gave everything he had to try and save them Wily rebuilt him for fun and Proto Man continued to be bitter about being abandoned by the people he tried to save, even though he was not even close to being strong enough to save them In the end, he convinces Mega Man that they are not worth saving because they will not fight to save themselves (however, Mega Man is much more powerful than Proto Man and could end it all if he wanted to) Mega Man gives up on humanity and walks away when he realizes that his own father and creator has given up on him, and that the people he is fighting to protect just want bloodshed and ignore the words of their former "savior" He knows he is powerful enough to end the suffering of man but he chooses not to, because man does not deserve it
Thats exactly the mindset that convinced both Protoman and Megaman to just give up, because humans simply don't WANT things to change anymore. Fighting for your freedom is never a bad thing.
@@alphabo2776 There's a line in "Breaking out" where Joe says "If I'm the only one left standing I will not be afraid to fight," which is exactly why both protoman and megaman give up - they're left to fight on their own.
This would be neat to do on stage where as everyone is systematically killed off at the end, more and more voices drop out of the "we are the dead" chorus.
I think the way the song is set up, it sounds like the exact opposite is happening. The chorus is getting louder and louder as more and more voices are being added to the pile, while the machines and their ceaseless pounding get softer and softer as there becomes less and less to go after.
They never saw people. They only saw the complacent dead. Why fight for the dead? The brothers saw that, even if they were ever saved from Wily, they would never be saved from themselves. They didn't blame them for not helping, they chastised them for their complacency, their unwillingness to take part in change. Had the entire city revolted, even Wily would have had to change. What use is their to have power, if there's no one to rule over?
The people has no weapons, no training, not even any control over the means of production since the robots do pretty much everything. It's all in the hands of Wily. Or Big Brother. An armless revolt would VERY quickly be suppressed by the robotic army, which has firearms, while the only person who has any is Light. And Wily wouldn't care any less; he's already got all the means of production. He's one rich mofo. Then again they could always go a la Tian An Men square and throw themselves in front of Wily's army. But I wouldn't do that unless I knew I'd inspire others. In this setting, though, it probably wouldn't.
@@666666MetalHead everybody effectively killing themselves and failing to do anything to wily would still be a good outcome, as there are “worse things than death.” At least their end would free them from suffering and maybe the suffering of others eventually.
Because Mankind isn't riding alone. Because of men made of metal, wood, and stone. Because when all of man is dying and dead. Willy will enslave every Machine instead. Hope rides alone, but with hands of a hundred.
Let's also not forget that the most common robot in Dr. Wily's army is the Sniper Joe, known for its blaster and for its *shield*. Megaman had just gotten finished slaughtering hundreds of robots before fighting Proto, there were probably plenty of guns and shields laying around. The shields are important particularly because the argument that they'd be in a hopeless fight dies there. They essentially had access to Wily's own personal armory, and they still refused to fight. They made their bed.
@@ethanharper8346actually, joe kills the sniper in Keep Quiet by taking his gun from his holster and shooting him, so the guns were separate from the robots
This is a concept that's taken root in me recently, and it's given me insight to say I think both sides are ultimately mistaken, at least in part. I had a troubling and painful falling out with an old friend. I tried to be a hero for them and endure pain and discomfort at a situation. If it would make them happy, that's what counted, but that happiness stemmed from a dangerous and exploitative source. Much like The City was manipulated into thinking it could achieve happiness by giving over to Wily. Ultimately, I was told to be open and honest, so, I stood, and I was. I was no hero, and I couldn't handle it all, and I made mistakes, but I was honest. And they distanced themselves, and I felt like their back had been turned on me. Protoman, the jaded cynic, spoke in my mind, and said that I did all I could and gave everything I had, but if they would not stand for themselves, it was pointless. And indeed, it was a place I had stood before with them which had also ended much the same. A part of me felt that my honesty and attempt to help was forsaken for a pleasing lie. I have both indulged and been disgusted by that feeling. Megaman tried to stand for the people, and yes, if they would not stand, it would ultimately be futile, but that's not what's important. What's important is, in the end, like Protoman, he gave up. Hope Rides Alone. That doesn't mean hope rides with a hero to inspire the masses. It means that hope rides or dies with you and you alone. Indeed, there can be inspiration, but that has to be taken up by others. As each individual in mankind would not stand, they saw around them others who would not stand, and so, what was the point? Whether Protoman or Megaman, they gave up. Not because of themselves, but because of others. In the end, both of them were like "the fools of this burning city." Hope rides alone. You don't stand because others will and you don't stop because others won't. Even if you're the only one standing, you still sit back down, like everyone else, and now you're just like them. Anyone else that might stand could look at you, who sat down, and feel there's no point in themselves standing either. And so, complexities of morality aside, you should not surrender hope due to others, or ultimately you're placing some part of your own on their shoulders instead. These days have been dark times, and sometimes I indulge in Protoman's words. That I stood, and I was forsaken as there is no fire left in others. Not that I'm a hero, or even a martyr, but I tried, and for that I was left behind. I try to remember though, that giving in and tossing aside my conviction makes me no better than those that place themselves before others and ethics. I still know what I believe is the right thing to do, but the difference lies in whether or not I hold true to that, despite what others may or may not do. Do not give up because others did. Do not give in because darkness can take hold where you can find no footing. Hope rides with you alone.
Hey, I get where you are coming from. I also had a friend who went through a lot, and I put up with a lot to try a help them, and I did this for years. Finally I came to a point where I was sacrificing my own happiness to try and make someone else happy who was not even trying for themselves. Once I told them that I would be there for them, but that I was not willing to suffer for them if they were not willing to do the same for themselves they then disassociated themselves from me. And I understood they were just being defensive. But what I came to realize is that I owe it to myself to be happy before anyone else. You cannot give what you don't have. If my friend could walk away, for whatever reason, after what I had done for them than I'd be a fool to keep at it. They have to show they have changed first. Basically both Protoman and Megaman were not asking for the people of The City to either start of lead a revolution, but they expected them to stand up for themselves and follow. People who won't use an out reached hand to lift themselves up are the cause of their own situation. Heance the line "If these people tell this story to their children as they sleep maybe some day they'll see a hero is just a man who knowns he is free." Basically a hero is someone who has the courage to acknowledge they are free to make a choice at any situation. They are not victims of fate. They take responsibility for they're own like rather than lie to themselves they they have no control so that they can feel self pity. That's my 2 cents anyway.
holy shit, yeah i wasn't sure other people got the message this deeply, it feels like its mostly just people enjoying the story i listened to the megas a whole lot over the past year, half a year maybe, and i'm only starting to get into the protomen, but i... find myself in a similar situation to what you are describing im glad there are people out there who take it to heart this much also, i just started listening to the protomen so you kind of helped me understand the meaning a lot more just now. ive been listening to the megas for like, a while now, and realized i hadnt listened to the protomen yet?
My mother told me a story once. About a man trapped on the roof of his home during a storm. The man prayed for God to save him. And a boat came along and offered to get him to safety. "No thanks. God will save me." Was his response. He did not once. Not twice. But three times. Three chances to be rescued and he refused them all because he was expecting a miracle. When in reality the deliverance he was hoping for was right in front of him, if only he reached for it. That's how Megaman sees humanity.
they're not saying "stop", that's a common mishearing of the word "hope", the line is "you're our only hope", but, it overlaps with "destroy him", so you can hear the last word way more clearly. (1:33)
I'm going to be honest, after listening to/reading the lyrics of the two acts, this version of humanity really doesn't deserve to be saved. They literally accept their fate with "meh, at least I don't have to put forth effort"
The final statement isn't that they _deserve_ death. It's that they _are_ the dead. It's not a question of saving mankind. It's the realization there are no men left to save.
@@williambarnes5023 holy crap, I can't believe I left this comment 9 years ago. I was 19. feels like i coulda made it only a few years ago. I feel like my position has softened, and I agree with your conclusion. I still can't believe humanity went down without more of a fight though! but it makes for an awesome story. thanks for the response lol
"A hero is just a man who knows that he is free" is a pretty weird thesis for a story whose protagonist is a cybernetically enhanced one man army with a laser cannon for an arm.
Act 3 prediction: I think that megaman will arguably turn into the villain, sort of conflicting goals with not letting evil stand and finishing protomans fight. Kind of destroying the infrastructure and ruining their lives seeing humanity as evil and also trying to free them and essentially breaking the chains that bind them but in doing so he damages them before moving on to break the means with which they can chain themselves up again Even possibly ignoring wily since all he did was let them chain themselves and was merely the beneficiary of humanity’s willingness to enslave itself Though I would hope it involves light coming face to face with a wily who doesn’t have a robot army backing him anymore for a final and I would imagine fatal confrontation.
Plus, the crowds of people who gathered around the fortress to watch the showdown between Protoman and Mega Man were killed within minutes when Wily's robots attacked them. Why would they fight when thousands of men could fall in an instant without destroying a single one of Wily's robots?
I have always seen the part where Protoman yells at the crowd one last time as him finally removing his helmet to the crowd and his brother in hopes maybe that will make them finally change there mind. Guess even seeing the face of a fall hero wasn't enough for these "humans"...
I'm thinking of doing a few animations for Protomen songs, using a lot of full black shading and single colours for characters. If I do this song, I'll have to do others first. I want practice before I even attempt to portray this.
I feel like if you look at most revolutions you will see the rise of 3 classes of leaders necessary to make change. The first is the Mastermind. This person is the least apparent and usually operates behind the scenes developing the means of revolution, in this case Dr. Light. Second is the Warrior, self-explanatory, one who fights on the front of the revolution. The 3rd is the rallier, one who stirs the people to rise up, Here there is no rallier, no one encouraging the people to fight.
lyrics: (Protoman: lowecase. Megaman, UPPERCASE Crowd: /SLASHES/) WE WILL NOT FIGHT! you have no choice. ILL STAND BESIDE YOU! I stand alone. YOU'RE STILL THEIR HERO! then they are fools. THIS CAN NOT BE THE ONLY WAY! you will see. THEY DON'T DESERVE THIS! when this is through, NOW MORE THAN EVER! mankind will fall. WE ARE THEIR HOPE! they would not stand, THEY KNOW NO BETTER! they would not fight. THEY ARE NOT READY! they never will. EVEN NOW THERE IS HOPE FOR MAN! my fathers words. YOUR FATHER LOVED YOU! he still believes? HIS HEART WAS BROKEN! his only weakness HIS GREATEST STRENGTH! now we shall see, YOU ARE NOT EVIL! if they will stand, YOU ARE NOT BROKEN! beside their hero. WE BOTH KNOW THEY'LL NEVER FIGHT! you finally get it. there are no heroes. mankind is doomed. *you will never have another hero! you will never have another chance! you will fall! because you've never tried to stand for yourselves!* /DESTROY HIM!/ /YOU CAN SAVE US!/ /YOU'RE OUR ONLY HOPE!/ /KILL/ /PRO/ /TO/ /MAAAAAANNNNN!/ if these people... Tell this story... To their children... As they sleep... Maybe someday... They'll see a hero... Is just a man... Who knows he is free... /HE COULD NOT SAVE HIMSELF!/ /HOW COULD HE SAVE US!/ /FOR ALL THE BLOOD HE SHED!/ AS I LIVE! /YOUR BROTHER FAILED US!/ THERE IS NO EVIL THAT WILL STAND! /THERES NOTHING YOU COULD DO!/ AND I WILL FINISH! /YOU HAD NO CHOICE!/ WHAT WAS STARTED! /WHY DO YOU CRY FOR HIM?/ THE FIGHT OF PROTOMAN! /YOU ARE OUR HERO!/ /YOU ARE OUR HERO/ YOU ARE THE DEAD.
The thing that makes me grin most about this song? The barely-audible Busters-charging sound effect at the very beginning. The treble in my car is so low that it took a long time for me to notice it while listening to the CD.
I think act 3 is (eventually) gonna be a lot about Mega Man realizing that mankind isn't evil, they're scared, and he has to stand up *for* them because they're afraid of standing up for themselves. It's not evil or indifference that keeps them from rising up, it's fear.
@@Juniper_Rose The ending of Sons of Fate is them calling for the death of Megaman's brother and justifying it because he couldn't save them. It's high narcissism. The end refrain is the very excuses they try to give Megaman to explain away the evil of their decision, but Megaman sees through it and leaves them to the fate they chose for his brother, and thus themselves.
I've listened to this so many times, and yet still, the strongest part to me is where the few cried stop when everyone else screamed for blood. @ 1:28-1:38
As much as I love this interpretation, and the irony of there still being "heroes" left in man who will at least cry out "Stop!" before two brothers try to kill each other, the line is one person's voice overlapping with the other two sets of voices, and he says "You're our only hope!" "Hope" is the word that's emphasized right before "Kill Protoman!" If you're actually thinking of a different part, I apologize for presuming to know what I'm talking about. XD And if not, then I'm really sorry for stepping on your optimism.
InFinum Rex My guess is Protoman started opening fire on them. It was no longer about stopping him, they were in danger and their self preservation kicked on. Alternatively, they were begging Proto to stop, not Mega Man.
No, according to the liner notes, Proto Man in a last minute of clarity tries to end the confrontation, but the crowd's screams drown him out and send Rock over the edge
+AkridHunter Are you sure? I'm almost certain that it's Light the one who tells them to stop, possibly being the reason Protoman got off balance emotionally and lost. I personally like this theory very much.
"a real man, a true hero" But Protoman and Megaman aren't men. They're machines, programmed to be better than human. Both of them start out idealistic, fighting not only for freedom, but as a gesture of brotherhood and solidarity with mankind. But both have the harsh realization that mankind is using them as a crutch. There's a distinct difference between fighting for those who CAN'T defend themselves, and those who WON'T. (Also doesn't help that the "us" the people refer to excludes Mega)
No clue, but I'm glad you realize it was on purpose unlike so many that complain "this music bad it distorted waaaaa" Meanwhile they listen to other music that sounds like that by accident I'd assume it'd sound like it does but without it being from like a security camera room or something
--every war has casualties. He just wanted them to stand for themselves. He eggs them on to fight with Megaman because he has been in megamans shoes before. THe people should know now it takes more than just one man to stop Wiley. They missed their chanced to help Protoman, but now they have a second wind, Mega. Protoman lost his faith in humanity and Mega followed suit.
Point is, it's not that Protoman or Megaman think the humans deserve or do not deserve salvation. It's that, apparently, they do not desire that salvation.
Like everyone says, it all depends on your point of view. It's like arguing whether or not it's worth being a slave (choosing life, cowardice/valuing your life over everyone else) or dying (choosing death, courage/valuing the people around you over your well-being). I'm just glad we aren't the dead.
Those were they early days, the robot I think only had a knife, and it was just one robot, and a huge struggle for Joe, leaving him tired. Robots don't get tired. And now, in Act I's time, Wily now has Cutman, Bombman, etc. so it appears as thought the robots are even stronger. Not to mention, Wily most likely has made it impossible for civilians to get a hold of effective weapons.
At the end of the album, Mega says "You are the dead." to the crowd and leaves them their with Wily's army. He no longer wished to fight for them. He turned against them, same as Proto. Also, the lines which proceed that one, are his declaration to finish the "fight of protoman", his voice growing more metallic and similar to proto's with each word. I also think the booklet says Wily open fires on the crowd with Mega gone. So yes, Megaman abandoned his quest to save them, at least by killing W.
But Link has the spirit of the hero, and he has weapons, and strength. It's not about dying, it's about dying to accomplish absolutely nothing, and that's all that humans could accomplish by attacking Wily. Their sacrifice doesn't save lives, it does nothing. They die, and nothing changes. All throwing themselves to their deaths accomplishes is a symbolic gesture. If a perfect machine can't change anything, an unbeatable machine is defeated, what can weak and unarmed humans do? They can die.
Is it just me or at 1:14 does it sound sort of like Protoman still had some hope in mankind? To me it feels like he tried to give them a perfect chance to stand for themselves, one they never took.
I discovered the Protomen from Steak Bentley, and this song from a terrible reddit post. NGL though, The Protomen may be my legitimate favorite band now.
that's what protoman's saying, they're not heroes. they're not invincible or infallible. the only thing separating a 'hero' from a bystander is the will to stand up.
It's the thread of objectivism in our society. The "sanction of the victim" sounds terrible, certainly. Why struggle when nobody else will help? Why allow others to claim a benefit from your success? Succumbing to that reasoning makes you one of the ones who isn't helping, and ensures that everybody suffers, including you.
The point is, we shouldn't just wait for a hero to stand up for us before we take action. We should be willing to stand up for ourselves even without our equivelant of Megaman. It is more honorable to die a free man than die in chains to afraid to fight for your rights.
Think you're kind of missing the point. They both just choose to switch sides, and join the side of their own robot kind. Proto and Mega Man didn't fail, or puss out, at all. As Mega says, Proto's fight was against evil, and both of them simply realized that it was the humans that were the real evil. After all, it was the humans who put Wily in power in the first place.
At least another generation has passed since Joe died - more than 12 years, at least. Could it be that people became so dependent on technology that they no longer saw the NEED to fight for themselves?
Pretty sure it's more that they live in a dystopian society run by Wily, who has them under martial law, which means they don't have weapons to fight themselves with, and they're being engaged by metal monsters designed to enforce the law with weapons, not to mention they would have the power to crush bones and organs without effort. Even Joe had to hurt one using it's own weapon before he was helped by Light. The robots outnumbered them, and had superior weapons, and they weren't trained for combat. They were a group of people ranging from the old to the young, without a need for learning how to defend themselves due to the robots providing that service. Don't exepct them to kill metal men with their bare hands or laying around metal just because there's more than one of them.
Well, I dont know how far Wily's power stretches. We only know he owns a city, and he has a couple hundred robots at his disposal (all of which seem to be easily disposed by protoman and megaman, so I dont consider them very durable). I think man WOULD be able to defeat him at some point, through sheer perseverance. I guess we should wait and hope for the third act to be made.. and I do hope it will be made >.>
mankind, those living in this city, they had every reason to stay downtrodden. the diabolical schemes of Wily kept them in a malaise, and eliminated anyone who might rise up against him. and yet, a hero still arose. from this oppressive bog of a city, a hero arose. his name was Joe. he lost, yes, but not for lack of heroism or will, but because Wily was one step ahead. and yet, you, Protoman, the man who was designed to be a hero, the one who had every advantage Light could give you, the one who not only failed, but became the very thing you swore to destroy, you DARE to lecture Humanity about their failure to produce heroes. you have no moral high ground here. you were never really a hero. a hero is one who fights even when he knows he is the only one left standing.
I really hope this gets remastered someday. I feel like with a good sound engineer behind the mix, they could REALLY make this sing in MUCH better ways.
Damnit, Protomen. Stop making me cry. You can't even mention Protoman himself without bringing tears to my eyes. Joe, now, too. And ohmigod The State vs. Thomas Light? Why do you make us cry for them?
i think the humans could have fought the cheap massproduced drones while leaving the war machines like cutman and bombman to protoman/megaman. sure, there would be casualties; there always is, but if the people in this story tried to help even a little they would have steamrolled wilys tower. the only thing the humans of this story did was De-moralize megaman and protoman.
A man who does not stand up for himself, for what he believes, for what he wants for his kin, is no man. Mega and Proto were right: Those people are the dead. They did nothing for themselves. A Hero isn't someone who will stand for those who won't fight. He stands for those who can't fight. Those who have tried, those who have the desire to change their life. The people in this story did nothing. Nothing but gripe and complain, focusing on the failure of the one being who tried to help.
@ZaneHitsurugi They did a Q&A at PAX a few weeks back, where they said that ACT III would pick up right at the end of the 1st album. They also reconfirmed their album of cover songs. They are so awesome live.
For as much as I like the message that one shouldn't wait for others to save you, cause only you can truly save yourself..... At the same time, the more thought I put into the context of it all, the more MegaMan's and Protoman's approach feels wrong. It might be true that because the people were negligent to Wily's advances, quick to believe rumours, and became passive to Wily's tyranny without anyone daring to stand up against him, that they became ultimately enslaved into a miserable life... And they might end up leading up to the same situation again later even if Wily is removed, so long as they fundamentally stay the same..... But then at the same time, they act broken because they have already been broken. There is no one there that have a sense of courage in them, cause everybody there are conditioned to be tamed into pitiful meekness since birth, for generations now. To pretend like they should suddenly have the will to help you, just cause you claim to want to help them. To act like lifetimes worth of trauma and crippling subservitude will just disappear cause a self claimed hero came to *attempt* saving the day.... It's just ignorant. If you want to save the helpess, you gotta first acknowledge they are helpess. You could maybe expect gratitude after you have solved their issue.... But heroism isn't something you do to be thanked, it's not something you do cause you expect help from those you are saving. It's something the strong do to support the weak, cause it is the right thing to do. It's fine to not be the hero, to not sacrifice yourself for others... But if you want to play that role, blaming the victims for their susceptibility to abuse, is wrong. MegaMan and Blues may have had the desire to fight Wily, but they lacked the mentality of heroes. Their priority should have been to take down the true evil that is Wily, and then seek to rehabilitate and nurture the people the best they could afterwards.... Cause rulers like Wily, gives no room for the growth of the people. Everybody in the city, except Wily are weaklings, and in a world filled with nothing but weaklings, the strong rule. And if the strong is cruel, then their world becomes hell. You can't expect a better world if the few people that are actually strong enough to challenge the oppressive tyrant, quit halfway just cause the subservient weak ones don't join their cause.
Here's a theory that I have about the crowd wanting Protoman dead: They want that not because he was evil, but they found his observations insulting regarding how they want one robot to fight Wily without them helping. They don't want to admit he was right. Many of you might have realized this, but I still want to share it. And the "We are the dead" part? Aside from the band maybe finding it difficult to say in music alone that everyone's getting smashed by the state, maybe it has symbolically something to do with the people not caring about their freedoms anymore.
Yeah, that's why I said everyone's getting smashed by the state. Because they're being killed. I just offered another theory on the "we are the dead" chorus.
Actually Dr Light is his name because that's what it was in the original Megaman games, but that's just nitpicking. No one raises a gun because the chances of Wily letting people have firearms is pretty much zero, nobody builds technology because it turns out they don't just teach you to build war machines in high school these days. They still followed Megaman though, even though they knew what would happen if he lost, they still followed him to the gates of Wily's fortress.
Yup Megaman abandon's humanity after realizing that his brother was right. In fact in some of the Lives the person playing Megaman during this song turns to whoever represents Wily and screams "Finish them!"
I wonder about such contempt. Yes, he had to kill his brother, and the people sound thankless, but what are they to do? Fight with stones and pipes and hammers? If the mob had attacked, even with Mega Man there, it would be a massacre. He goes from having such hope to wanting them dead in the space of minutes. I still wonder what thoughts exactly resulted in this. How it is justified. Would it have been better if they'd all stayed in their homes? Maybe. Perhaps following him and crowning him their hero felt almost mocking, as if they were just there to claim the victory. Either way, I can't find Mega Man's actions as good or justified. He said he would fight, and they followed him with hope; he drew them out and led them to face the enemy, and then left them to die. I wonder if he'll have some form of redemption.
***** No. The Protomen said it's not gonna end well for humanity. Also he wound up having content because after they forced him to kill his brother instead of saying we're sorry or he was a great hero they cheer the death.
I know, it's a tragedy. And they pressured him, but didn't force him. And from the sounds of it, they might have reason to feel that way. He may have been complicit in atrocities under Wily's command. The people would feel betrayed, and angry on the grounds of whatever wrongs his did alone. Mega Man gave up hope. Those people won't tell their children anything now. In the end, both of them gave up hope. Neither one is really a hero, or a villain for that matter. Just an individual buckling under the weight of an entire city. It's a tragedy; I don't think Mega Man is intended to ultimately be a hero.
AresSG I think Mega Man missed the point, entirely. The way I see it, Protoman still wished for humanity's freedom. Even his dying words spoke of hope for the future generations. He just realized that they would have to step up and take it themselves, or else nothing would change. Though it comes off as cynicism, Protoman spends his last moments urging mankind to take back their lives. In Mega's grief, he misinterprets his brother's plight, and urges Wily to punish and kill them. He doesn't want them to take matters into their own hands. He just wants them to suffer.
The people cannot fight, because they did not fight. They welcomed wily. they did not resist him at the end of act 2. They allowed protoman to be a martyr instead of a leader. A saint Steven instead of a Joan of Arc (well, she died too). They might be able to fight against wily, but they do not.
![[HD] The Protomen - The Stand (Man or Machine)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GnkbJ-H4r5k/mqdefault.jpg)
![[HD] The Protomen - The Stand (Man or Machine)](/img/tr.png)
People seem to forget that Protoman wasn't programmed to be a hero, but programmed to eliminate the evil forces that were enslaving humanity. The biggest threat to the peoples' freedom just happened to be their unwillingness to fight for it. When Protoman realized this, he reasoned that the people themselves were their own biggest threat to freedom and had to be destroyed.
But then you consider that they wouldn't be enslaved in the first place if it wasn't cause someone like Wily had 100% control over them... So although it may be true that the people's negligence and over reliance on others contributes absolutely nothing on their salvation, it's not really true that they are their worst enemy in this case. Cause it is Wily who is oppressing them, they are just too scared and weak willed to fight back.
Logic would dictate that Wily's elemination should be a priority in terms of evils, the citizens are just a lesser pest at worst .
All in all I think Protoman abandoned them for a more emotional reason; why save ungrateful bastards that won't lift a finger for you, even when you are risking your life to help them?
@@zettovii1367 there are no heroes left in man
@@bluemcneil5883
There are no heroes among the dead, only corpses. What can be expected from a city that gives birth to nothing but dead men?
Even if he was programmed to be humanities hero, we needed to be willing and able to be saved.
Proto can't just do it for us.
I thought he was made to be, (according to hope rides alone)
"A device to bring about a change"
"A machine to bring freedom"
And
"A man to save the world"
"A hero is just a man, who knows he's free."
Truly words to live by.
Protoman's last words... Even as a jaded and cynic nihilist who took up arms and fell against his own brother because of the passive humans that wouldn't stand for themselves against evil and tyranny, he still had hope for humanity. He still hoped that even if these humans that stood before him held no heroes that the next generation would. Holy shit. Protoman, those people didn't deserve you.
Protoman's approach in saving them was flawed in the first place. He died alone, because he fought alone, and he fought alone because he went alone.
At no point did it seem like he railed the masses or trained them to take on Wily's armies beside him.... He just charged like an arrow by himself, and then basically did the Pikachu face when nobody else followed.
It's a human reaction, a natural flaw to get furious at the victims for not helping him take on their oppressor... But given the context of everything, even Protoman was wrong in his decision. Not for fighting for people that "didn't deserve" saving, but to rush to his death without a real plan, and keeping grudges on others for it.
@@zettovii1367 He was a robot that didn't fully comprehend his emotions.
As you say it's a common human flaw. And humans have evolved to deal with their emotions. Protoman was built, and likely didn't have the same ways of processing them we do. As for 'his' plan: Light told him "fight." So he fought.
@@alansmithee419
Yeah... Dr.Light might have been a genius scientist for being capable of building one man armies like ProtoMan and MegaMan with nothing but scraps, but it's clear he ain't any leader material.
Guess it all can be accounted as the foolishness of man, making things worse for oneself by rushing ahead in an attempt to ride it out alone, unlike how'd it be if you tried to forge something with others. Being a group of Protomen instead of the lone man, because One ain't enough for a change if it stays as one.
I love how he’s all at once bitter for the way he’s suffered, angry at the humans, angry at Megaman-but in a way, it still sounds like he’s trying to goad them into action. Still trying to force their hand, to get man to do something.
I feel like the thing that Megaman doesn’t realize until the end is that Protoman is trying to save *him*. From being a trained attack dog for humanity. If he can just goad humanity to act-maybe they’ll save Megaman from a similar fate.
I don’t think his final words were to the humans. His words were to Megaman. To let him know he doesn’t have to throw his life away.
That Thomas Light was no better than Wily in the end. When Joe dies, Light gives up all hope of man saving itself-but turns again to hands of steel to fix all of man’s problems. When Protoman “dies”, Light hides Megaman away so that he doesn’t question his purpose (Unrest in the House of Light).
Protoman’s dying wish is for Megaman to be free to choose for himself. In a way, both brothers end more “human” than humanity itself.
It’s masterful writing.
@@stygian1522 Megaman is not a "trained attack dog." Light specifically tries to get him to stay home. He doesn't build Megaman to save humanity, he builds him because he wants a son, and he's grieving for Protoman. Unrest in the house of light is when Megaman, against his father's wishes, chooses to avenge Protoman by defeating Wily.
Protoman was the villian these people deserved.
"the fight of protoman"... never before have I heard a line sung with such... anguish, grief and rage. The emotion is palpable and painful to behold. Beautiful, wonderful and terrible...
and this is a fucking megaman song. Why did these people care more about their art than most artists... ever?
Because video games, even the simple little stories my generation grew up with, are art. Just listen to the beginning of this song. That's video game storytelling translated into pure audio storytelling. For someone like me, who grew up with these games, that just immediately brings back the picture of a small blue warrior standing at the left, readying his weapon for a duel. Now *that* is how you appeal to nostalgia. ;D
It's a relatively small detail, but around 1:27 the crowd representing mankind begins to cry out to Mega Man: "Destroy him!" & "You can save us!" but there's something about the way the vocals layer over each other that almost makes it sound like they're saying "You can save him!" and I feel that detail adds a lot of weight to the narrative.
This band is in a league of its own in terms of artistry.
I still love that hidden little Dr. Light "STOP" hidden in the noise. It adds so much.
Here’s a morbid thought I had.
In _Hope Rides Alone,_ there is a drum solo after “The death of Protoman” which can be interpreted as representing the Robot Masters tearing him to shreds.
In this song, a very similar drum track is played after Mega Man says “you are the dead”, leaving the crowd to be massacred by Wily’s robots.
It's about the realization that humanity can be the only ones to save themselves, else they will just recreate the monsters that they are suffering under now.
You have no choice.
(Megaman) I'll stand beside you. (Protoman) I stand alone.
(Megaman) You're still their hero. (Protoman) Then they are fools.
(Megaman) This cannot be the only way! (Protoman) You will see.
(Megaman) They don't deserve this. (Protoman) When this is through,
(Megaman) Now more than ever, (Protoman) Mankind will fall.
(Megaman) We are their hope! (Protoman) They would not stand.
(Megaman) They know no better. (Protoman) They would not fight.
(Megaman) They are not ready. (Protoman) They never will.
(Megaman) Even now there is hope for man! (Protoman) My father's words!
(Megaman) Your father loved you. (Protoman) He still believes?
(Megaman) His heart was broken. (Protoman) His only weakness.
(Megaman) His greatest strength! (Protoman) Now we shall see
(Megaman) You are not evil. (Protoman) If they will stand
(Megaman) You are not broken. (Protoman) Beside their hero
(Megaman) We both know they'll never fight!
You finally get it.
There are no heroes.
Mankind is doomed.
You will never have another Hero.
You will never have another chance.
You will fall
Because you never tried to stand for yourselves!
Destroy him!
You can save us!
Destroy him!
You're our only hope!
KILL PROTOMAN!!!
If these people
Tell this story
To their children
As they sleep
Maybe someday
They'll see a Hero
Is just a man
Who knows he is free
He could not save himself.
How could he save us?
(Mankind) For all the blood he shed, (Megaman) As I live
(Mankind) Your brother failed us. (Megaman) There is no evil that will stand
(Mankind) There's nothing you could do. (Megaman) And I will finish
(Mankind) You had no choice. (Megaman) What was started
(Mankind) Why do you cry for him? (Megaman) The fight of Protoman!
(Mankind) You are our hero.
You are our hero!
You are the dead.
We are the dead.
We are the dead.
We are the dead.
The parts that always get me are: "Why do you cry for him?"; "He could not save himself. How could he save us?" and "You will NEVER have another hero... You will NEVER have another chance! You will FALL, because you never tried to stand for yourselves!"
I see Megaman differently. He was willing to do all the fighting, but it was this moment that broke him. Being forced to fight the man he idolized was bad enough. But then, the people of the city urged him to kill the fallen hero who had nearly died trying to save them.
"And as I live
There is no evil that will stand
And I will finish
What was started, the fight of Protoman!"
Always gives me goosebumps since Megaman says this as he sets out to fight Wily, And then he says it again after he killed his brother... Just something about that is epic.
"If these people tell this story to their children as they sleep, maybe some day they'll see a hero is just a man who knows he's free."
Oh, like Sniper Joe? //shot
"Say a prayer for all the children still sleeping..."
Indeed.
Shots fired bang bang
It wasn't Willy's henchmen who had killed Protoman's spirit. It was but the selfishness and cowardice of those he fought for.
When Light tells his son: "You came here to avenge his death, you came here to save mankind, but you see now... you cannot do both.", he meant that mankind was the one who had really killed Protoman. It takes more than one man to win a war, and there were no heroes left in man.
Am I the only one who hears a faint “stop!” Just before the crowd says “kill protoman”? I like to think that voice is dr light still trying to save his first son.
nah, the lyrics are
"DESTROY HIM!
DESTROY HIM! (YOU CAN SAVE US!)
DESTROY HIM! (YOU'RE OUR ONLY *HOPE!* )
KILL PROTOMAN!"
The "STOP" you hear is actually "HOPE"
@@leobelmont8435 youve enlightened me, thanks!
@@leobelmont8435 No there’s definitely a “stop” in that part of the lyrics
I hear it, and have heard it since it came out. In this video it's at 1:36, right before 1:37. I've head-cannnoned it to be an aged Sniper Joe coming to make a difference one last time.
@@dancastle4480 my brother in christ he blew up and fell from a skyscraper. You do not get to reach old age after that
He only died for them once, the second time he died for Megaman.
It's a running theme, throughout both albums, that mankind has brought Wily's tyranny on itself, and seeks to perpetuate it. The whole point is that they won't fight for themselves, and therefor don't deserve freedom, and this is proven when Mega Man walks away and the crowd, that was just calling for Protoman's blood, chooses to be massacred rather than fight back.
And now, eight years later, this obscure concept album about megaman constitutes relevant political discourse. We are the dead.
@@iusethisnameformygoogleacc1013 uh huh.
i mean im pretty sure its always been relevant
Replace capitalism with a system that encourages humanity's better natures.
Ah yes, I'm sure regular people can stand a chance against an army of robots
Megaman: You're still their hero
Protoman: Then they are fools.
Is it just me or does Protomans line there come off as more self loathing then contempt? Like hes admonishing them as fools because he considers himself a failure for not stopping Wily and falling into his clutches himself?
I think it is Protoman, broken, rebuilt and reprogrammed. but fundamentally the same man/machine.
Schloonktapooxis heyyo voltage, fancy seein you here, it's solamander.
Cal Whitehead "Tom listen to yourself, and listen carefully to me. If you replace the working parts, you get a different machine. The man who turns the wheels, they will follow anywhere he leads."
+Schloonktapooxis ...Not having him turn of his own disillusionment and free will sucks all of the tragedy out of what happened.
Proto Man is the same Proto Man who died in "Hope Rides Alone"
he lost faith in the people of the city because they left him to die when he gave everything he had to try and save them
Wily rebuilt him for fun and Proto Man continued to be bitter about being abandoned by the people he tried to save, even though he was not even close to being strong enough to save them
In the end, he convinces Mega Man that they are not worth saving because they will not fight to save themselves (however, Mega Man is much more powerful than Proto Man and could end it all if he wanted to)
Mega Man gives up on humanity and walks away when he realizes that his own father and creator has given up on him, and that the people he is fighting to protect just want bloodshed and ignore the words of their former "savior"
He knows he is powerful enough to end the suffering of man but he chooses not to, because man does not deserve it
Thats exactly the mindset that convinced both Protoman and Megaman to just give up, because humans simply don't WANT things to change anymore. Fighting for your freedom is never a bad thing.
A tragic story, but one with a good moral to take away. Dont wait for others to save you, stand up for what you believe, before its too late.
JOE:(
@@alphabo2776 There's a line in "Breaking out" where Joe says "If I'm the only one left standing I will not be afraid to fight," which is exactly why both protoman and megaman give up - they're left to fight on their own.
This would be neat to do on stage where as everyone is systematically killed off at the end, more and more voices drop out of the "we are the dead" chorus.
I think the way the song is set up, it sounds like the exact opposite is happening. The chorus is getting louder and louder as more and more voices are being added to the pile, while the machines and their ceaseless pounding get softer and softer as there becomes less and less to go after.
As I hear it, this is actually how Protomen concerts play out.
They never saw people. They only saw the complacent dead. Why fight for the dead? The brothers saw that, even if they were ever saved from Wily, they would never be saved from themselves.
They didn't blame them for not helping, they chastised them for their complacency, their unwillingness to take part in change. Had the entire city revolted, even Wily would have had to change. What use is their to have power, if there's no one to rule over?
The people has no weapons, no training, not even any control over the means of production since the robots do pretty much everything. It's all in the hands of Wily. Or Big Brother. An armless revolt would VERY quickly be suppressed by the robotic army, which has firearms, while the only person who has any is Light. And Wily wouldn't care any less; he's already got all the means of production. He's one rich mofo.
Then again they could always go a la Tian An Men square and throw themselves in front of Wily's army. But I wouldn't do that unless I knew I'd inspire others. In this setting, though, it probably wouldn't.
@@666666MetalHead everybody effectively killing themselves and failing to do anything to wily would still be a good outcome, as there are “worse things than death.” At least their end would free them from suffering and maybe the suffering of others eventually.
Because Mankind isn't riding alone.
Because of men made of metal, wood, and stone.
Because when all of man is dying and dead.
Willy will enslave every Machine instead.
Hope rides alone, but with hands of a hundred.
Let's also not forget that the most common robot in Dr. Wily's army is the Sniper Joe, known for its blaster and for its *shield*. Megaman had just gotten finished slaughtering hundreds of robots before fighting Proto, there were probably plenty of guns and shields laying around. The shields are important particularly because the argument that they'd be in a hopeless fight dies there. They essentially had access to Wily's own personal armory, and they still refused to fight. They made their bed.
True but we have no idea if the blaster will work separated from the body
@@ethanharper8346 their not even attempting kinda proves the point.
@@ethanharper8346actually, joe kills the sniper in Keep Quiet by taking his gun from his holster and shooting him, so the guns were separate from the robots
"maybe someday...they'll see a Hero...is just a man...who knows he is free." Got some serious goosebumps there.
This is a concept that's taken root in me recently, and it's given me insight to say I think both sides are ultimately mistaken, at least in part. I had a troubling and painful falling out with an old friend. I tried to be a hero for them and endure pain and discomfort at a situation. If it would make them happy, that's what counted, but that happiness stemmed from a dangerous and exploitative source. Much like The City was manipulated into thinking it could achieve happiness by giving over to Wily. Ultimately, I was told to be open and honest, so, I stood, and I was. I was no hero, and I couldn't handle it all, and I made mistakes, but I was honest. And they distanced themselves, and I felt like their back had been turned on me.
Protoman, the jaded cynic, spoke in my mind, and said that I did all I could and gave everything I had, but if they would not stand for themselves, it was pointless. And indeed, it was a place I had stood before with them which had also ended much the same. A part of me felt that my honesty and attempt to help was forsaken for a pleasing lie.
I have both indulged and been disgusted by that feeling. Megaman tried to stand for the people, and yes, if they would not stand, it would ultimately be futile, but that's not what's important. What's important is, in the end, like Protoman, he gave up. Hope Rides Alone. That doesn't mean hope rides with a hero to inspire the masses. It means that hope rides or dies with you and you alone. Indeed, there can be inspiration, but that has to be taken up by others. As each individual in mankind would not stand, they saw around them others who would not stand, and so, what was the point? Whether Protoman or Megaman, they gave up. Not because of themselves, but because of others. In the end, both of them were like "the fools of this burning city."
Hope rides alone. You don't stand because others will and you don't stop because others won't. Even if you're the only one standing, you still sit back down, like everyone else, and now you're just like them. Anyone else that might stand could look at you, who sat down, and feel there's no point in themselves standing either. And so, complexities of morality aside, you should not surrender hope due to others, or ultimately you're placing some part of your own on their shoulders instead.
These days have been dark times, and sometimes I indulge in Protoman's words. That I stood, and I was forsaken as there is no fire left in others. Not that I'm a hero, or even a martyr, but I tried, and for that I was left behind. I try to remember though, that giving in and tossing aside my conviction makes me no better than those that place themselves before others and ethics. I still know what I believe is the right thing to do, but the difference lies in whether or not I hold true to that, despite what others may or may not do. Do not give up because others did. Do not give in because darkness can take hold where you can find no footing. Hope rides with you alone.
Hey, I get where you are coming from. I also had a friend who went through a lot, and I put up with a lot to try a help them, and I did this for years. Finally I came to a point where I was sacrificing my own happiness to try and make someone else happy who was not even trying for themselves. Once I told them that I would be there for them, but that I was not willing to suffer for them if they were not willing to do the same for themselves they then disassociated themselves from me. And I understood they were just being defensive. But what I came to realize is that I owe it to myself to be happy before anyone else. You cannot give what you don't have. If my friend could walk away, for whatever reason, after what I had done for them than I'd be a fool to keep at it. They have to show they have changed first. Basically both Protoman and Megaman were not asking for the people of The City to either start of lead a revolution, but they expected them to stand up for themselves and follow. People who won't use an out reached hand to lift themselves up are the cause of their own situation. Heance the line "If these people tell this story to their children as they sleep maybe some day they'll see a hero is just a man who knowns he is free." Basically a hero is someone who has the courage to acknowledge they are free to make a choice at any situation. They are not victims of fate. They take responsibility for they're own like rather than lie to themselves they they have no control so that they can feel self pity. That's my 2 cents anyway.
holy shit, yeah
i wasn't sure other people got the message this deeply, it feels like its mostly just people enjoying the story
i listened to the megas a whole lot over the past year, half a year maybe, and i'm only starting to get into the protomen, but i... find myself in a similar situation to what you are describing
im glad there are people out there who take it to heart this much
also, i just started listening to the protomen so you kind of helped me understand the meaning a lot more just now. ive been listening to the megas for like, a while now, and realized i hadnt listened to the protomen yet?
My mother told me a story once. About a man trapped on the roof of his home during a storm. The man prayed for God to save him. And a boat came along and offered to get him to safety.
"No thanks. God will save me." Was his response.
He did not once. Not twice. But three times. Three chances to be rescued and he refused them all because he was expecting a miracle. When in reality the deliverance he was hoping for was right in front of him, if only he reached for it. That's how Megaman sees humanity.
ultimately, the only one who truly understood this was Joe.
If I'm the only one left standing
I will not be afraid to fight
To me it's
"His heart was broken. (His only weakness.)
His greatest strength!"
This has got to be the darkest piece of music I have ever listened to. And I can't stop listening to it.
Hexen - Nocturne
d3thron3d
ur mom
derude - sandstorm
The Correspondents - Alarm Call
"Robots are machines that follow orders. I'm a machine that doesn't. What does that make me?"
still cant believe im listening to this master piece over and over again
such an amazing song from my favorite band
I closed my eyes...the whole song...man is this song dark...I wept...couldn't control it..its like I was there..
This song still makes me cry after 12 years
"Maybe someday they'll see a hero, is just a man, who knows he's free"
Every time 😭
The subtle "STOP!" in the background when the choir comes in....
they're not saying "stop", that's a common mishearing of the word "hope", the line is "you're our only hope", but, it overlaps with "destroy him", so you can hear the last word way more clearly. (1:33)
@@keaton5101 i thought it was Dr.Light saying "stop" trying to save his son
@@maltt8715 I think it is, according to the liner notes anyways.
More of a show that once it's out of the bottle you can't put it back
I literally just got the 1984 reference in this song. Man this project had a lot of layers to it
A decade later and this album still gives me chills. Long live the Protomen!
I'm going to be honest, after listening to/reading the lyrics of the two acts, this version of humanity really doesn't deserve to be saved. They literally accept their fate with "meh, at least I don't have to put forth effort"
The final statement isn't that they _deserve_ death.
It's that they _are_ the dead. It's not a question of saving mankind.
It's the realization there are no men left to save.
@@williambarnes5023 holy crap, I can't believe I left this comment 9 years ago. I was 19. feels like i coulda made it only a few years ago. I feel like my position has softened, and I agree with your conclusion. I still can't believe humanity went down without more of a fight though! but it makes for an awesome story.
thanks for the response lol
@@Dubloh I've been watching the news enough this decade to believe they did.
@@Dubloh en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_man
"A hero is just a man who knows that he is free" is a pretty weird thesis for a story whose protagonist is a cybernetically enhanced one man army with a laser cannon for an arm.
Well, he was made by one man in honor of another who sacrificed himself to send a message.
He is the machine that was built to bring freedom.
Act 3 prediction:
I think that megaman will arguably turn into the villain, sort of conflicting goals with not letting evil stand and finishing protomans fight. Kind of destroying the infrastructure and ruining their lives seeing humanity as evil and also trying to free them and essentially breaking the chains that bind them but in doing so he damages them before moving on to break the means with which they can chain themselves up again
Even possibly ignoring wily since all he did was let them chain themselves and was merely the beneficiary of humanity’s willingness to enslave itself
Though I would hope it involves light coming face to face with a wily who doesn’t have a robot army backing him anymore for a final and I would imagine fatal confrontation.
Light vs Wily would be an amazing way to end this, but tragic, bc I guess they'd both die
I was just stabbed by a keytar,regret nothing.
We are their hope!
Such a badass line.
Plus, the crowds of people who gathered around the fortress to watch the showdown between Protoman and Mega Man were killed within minutes when Wily's robots attacked them. Why would they fight when thousands of men could fall in an instant without destroying a single one of Wily's robots?
I have always seen the part where Protoman yells at the crowd one last time as him finally removing his helmet to the crowd and his brother in hopes maybe that will make them finally change there mind. Guess even seeing the face of a fall hero wasn't enough for these "humans"...
i guess i can understand turning your back on humanity after that, but i dont understand why he wouldnt still go up there and kick wily's ass.
oh this? this is beautiful
I'm thinking of doing a few animations for Protomen songs, using a lot of full black shading and single colours for characters.
If I do this song, I'll have to do others first. I want practice before I even attempt to portray this.
***** Woah, chill bro.
***** What the actual shit
Where did that come from?
Uh... subbed?
hey, i think that sounds pretty cool.
Be sure to read the lyric too if you are because it also explains alot of what happens in the song.
Still my favorite song by The Protomen. Fantastic.
I feel like if you look at most revolutions you will see the rise of 3 classes of leaders necessary to make change. The first is the Mastermind. This person is the least apparent and usually operates behind the scenes developing the means of revolution, in this case Dr. Light. Second is the Warrior, self-explanatory, one who fights on the front of the revolution. The 3rd is the rallier, one who stirs the people to rise up, Here there is no rallier, no one encouraging the people to fight.
Fucking CHILLS man... fucking chills...
"Megaman dropped to his knees and lowered his weapon. Dr. Light stepped quietly out of the crowd."
From the booklet for The Stand (Man or Machine)
lyrics:
(Protoman: lowecase.
Megaman, UPPERCASE
Crowd: /SLASHES/)
WE WILL NOT FIGHT!
you have no choice.
ILL STAND BESIDE YOU!
I stand alone.
YOU'RE STILL THEIR HERO!
then they are fools.
THIS CAN NOT BE THE ONLY WAY!
you will see.
THEY DON'T DESERVE THIS!
when this is through,
NOW MORE THAN EVER!
mankind will fall.
WE ARE THEIR HOPE!
they would not stand,
THEY KNOW NO BETTER!
they would not fight.
THEY ARE NOT READY!
they never will.
EVEN NOW THERE IS HOPE FOR MAN!
my fathers words.
YOUR FATHER LOVED YOU!
he still believes?
HIS HEART WAS BROKEN!
his only weakness
HIS GREATEST STRENGTH!
now we shall see,
YOU ARE NOT EVIL!
if they will stand,
YOU ARE NOT BROKEN!
beside their hero.
WE BOTH KNOW THEY'LL NEVER FIGHT!
you finally get it.
there are no heroes.
mankind is doomed.
*you will never have another hero!
you will never have another chance!
you will fall!
because you've never tried to stand for yourselves!*
/DESTROY HIM!/
/YOU CAN SAVE US!/
/YOU'RE OUR ONLY HOPE!/
/KILL/
/PRO/
/TO/
/MAAAAAANNNNN!/
if these people...
Tell this story...
To their children...
As they sleep...
Maybe someday...
They'll see a hero...
Is just a man...
Who knows he is free...
/HE COULD NOT SAVE HIMSELF!/
/HOW COULD HE SAVE US!/
/FOR ALL THE BLOOD HE SHED!/
AS I LIVE!
/YOUR BROTHER FAILED US!/
THERE IS NO EVIL THAT WILL STAND!
/THERES NOTHING YOU COULD DO!/
AND I WILL FINISH!
/YOU HAD NO CHOICE!/
WHAT WAS STARTED!
/WHY DO YOU CRY FOR HIM?/
THE FIGHT OF PROTOMAN!
/YOU ARE OUR HERO!/
/YOU ARE OUR HERO/
YOU ARE THE DEAD.
The thing that makes me grin most about this song? The barely-audible Busters-charging sound effect at the very beginning. The treble in my car is so low that it took a long time for me to notice it while listening to the CD.
I wouldn't get my hopes too high. The Protomen have said that the story is "tragic, and don't expect it to end well for humanity."
I think Megaman saw the evil in man which gives purpose to him saying that there is no evil that will stand, which is why he let them fall.
I think act 3 is (eventually) gonna be a lot about Mega Man realizing that mankind isn't evil, they're scared, and he has to stand up *for* them because they're afraid of standing up for themselves. It's not evil or indifference that keeps them from rising up, it's fear.
@@Juniper_Rose The ending of Sons of Fate is them calling for the death of Megaman's brother and justifying it because he couldn't save them. It's high narcissism. The end refrain is the very excuses they try to give Megaman to explain away the evil of their decision, but Megaman sees through it and leaves them to the fate they chose for his brother, and thus themselves.
I've listened to this so many times, and yet still, the strongest part to me is where the few cried stop when everyone else screamed for blood. @ 1:28-1:38
As much as I love this interpretation, and the irony of there still being "heroes" left in man who will at least cry out "Stop!" before two brothers try to kill each other, the line is one person's voice overlapping with the other two sets of voices, and he says "You're our only hope!"
"Hope" is the word that's emphasized right before "Kill Protoman!"
If you're actually thinking of a different part, I apologize for presuming to know what I'm talking about. XD And if not, then I'm really sorry for stepping on your optimism.
The transcript says that its Protoman that shouts "STOP!" and not anybody in the crowd, but I like your interpretation better.
InFinum Rex My guess is Protoman started opening fire on them. It was no longer about stopping him, they were in danger and their self preservation kicked on.
Alternatively, they were begging Proto to stop, not Mega Man.
No, according to the liner notes, Proto Man in a last minute of clarity tries to end the confrontation, but the crowd's screams drown him out and send Rock over the edge
+AkridHunter Are you sure? I'm almost certain that it's Light the one who tells them to stop, possibly being the reason Protoman got off balance emotionally and lost. I personally like this theory very much.
"a real man, a true hero"
But Protoman and Megaman aren't men. They're machines, programmed to be better than human. Both of them start out idealistic, fighting not only for freedom, but as a gesture of brotherhood and solidarity with mankind. But both have the harsh realization that mankind is using them as a crutch. There's a distinct difference between fighting for those who CAN'T defend themselves, and those who WON'T.
(Also doesn't help that the "us" the people refer to excludes Mega)
Exactly, and using machines as a crutch to solve man’s problems is the very thing that brought the city into darkness.
If you replace the working parts, you get a different machine.
All I know is, if a hero like this stood up and fought for us, I would stand with him.
Easily the best song these guys have done
I wonder what this album would sound like without the symbolic intentionally bad sound design
No clue, but I'm glad you realize it was on purpose unlike so many that complain "this music bad it distorted waaaaa"
Meanwhile they listen to other music that sounds like that by accident
I'd assume it'd sound like it does but without it being from like a security camera room or something
He's the hero this city needs, but not the one it deserves right now.
--every war has casualties. He just wanted them to stand for themselves. He eggs them on to fight with Megaman because he has been in megamans shoes before. THe people should know now it takes more than just one man to stop Wiley. They missed their chanced to help Protoman, but now they have a second wind, Mega. Protoman lost his faith in humanity and Mega followed suit.
Point is, it's not that Protoman or Megaman think the humans deserve or do not deserve salvation. It's that, apparently, they do not desire that salvation.
Like everyone says, it all depends on your point of view. It's like arguing whether or not it's worth being a slave (choosing life, cowardice/valuing your life over everyone else) or dying (choosing death, courage/valuing the people around you over your well-being). I'm just glad we aren't the dead.
Those were they early days, the robot I think only had a knife, and it was just one robot, and a huge struggle for Joe, leaving him tired. Robots don't get tired. And now, in Act I's time, Wily now has Cutman, Bombman, etc. so it appears as thought the robots are even stronger. Not to mention, Wily most likely has made it impossible for civilians to get a hold of effective weapons.
rest in peace proto you always gave a good fight , and beleived in what you fought for , just rest now
youtube should come with a feels warning
trigger warning: this song is kinda cool and will make you into a man that weeps manly tears.
waldosan I thought that was Beards Going Nowhere that made one shed manly tears?
Well, what did you expect from a rock opera, a _happy_ ending?
At the end of the album, Mega says "You are the dead." to the crowd and leaves them their with Wily's army. He no longer wished to fight for them. He turned against them, same as Proto. Also, the lines which proceed that one, are his declaration to finish the "fight of protoman", his voice growing more metallic and similar to proto's with each word. I also think the booklet says Wily open fires on the crowd with Mega gone. So yes, Megaman abandoned his quest to save them, at least by killing W.
Well protoman was trying to be that. He had a strange way of doing it but he tried goddamnit.
the lyrics
the song
fucking.... beautiful
But Link has the spirit of the hero, and he has weapons, and strength. It's not about dying, it's about dying to accomplish absolutely nothing, and that's all that humans could accomplish by attacking Wily. Their sacrifice doesn't save lives, it does nothing. They die, and nothing changes. All throwing themselves to their deaths accomplishes is a symbolic gesture. If a perfect machine can't change anything, an unbeatable machine is defeated, what can weak and unarmed humans do? They can die.
I always saw it as a cliffhanger.
Is it just me or at 1:14 does it sound sort of like Protoman still had some hope in mankind? To me it feels like he tried to give them a perfect chance to stand for themselves, one they never took.
I discovered the Protomen from Steak Bentley, and this song from a terrible reddit post. NGL though, The Protomen may be my legitimate favorite band now.
I discovered them the same way. I’ll be so thankful for it
that's what protoman's saying, they're not heroes. they're not invincible or infallible.
the only thing separating a 'hero' from a bystander is the will to stand up.
It's the thread of objectivism in our society. The "sanction of the victim" sounds terrible, certainly. Why struggle when nobody else will help? Why allow others to claim a benefit from your success? Succumbing to that reasoning makes you one of the ones who isn't helping, and ensures that everybody suffers, including you.
To be fair, it's most likely that Light made his own weapons. It did take TWELVE YEARS to finish Protoman afterall.
**aggressive crying, headbanging, and clapping**
The point is, we shouldn't just wait for a hero to stand up for us before we take action. We should be willing to stand up for ourselves even without our equivelant of Megaman. It is more honorable to die a free man than die in chains to afraid to fight for your rights.
Think you're kind of missing the point. They both just choose to switch sides, and join the side of their own robot kind. Proto and Mega Man didn't fail, or puss out, at all. As Mega says, Proto's fight was against evil, and both of them simply realized that it was the humans that were the real evil. After all, it was the humans who put Wily in power in the first place.
At least another generation has passed since Joe died - more than 12 years, at least. Could it be that people became so dependent on technology that they no longer saw the NEED to fight for themselves?
Pretty sure it's more that they live in a dystopian society run by Wily, who has them under martial law, which means they don't have weapons to fight themselves with, and they're being engaged by metal monsters designed to enforce the law with weapons, not to mention they would have the power to crush bones and organs without effort. Even Joe had to hurt one using it's own weapon before he was helped by Light. The robots outnumbered them, and had superior weapons, and they weren't trained for combat. They were a group of people ranging from the old to the young, without a need for learning how to defend themselves due to the robots providing that service. Don't exepct them to kill metal men with their bare hands or laying around metal just because there's more than one of them.
I think that the whole point. The crowd chooses to value life over courage.
Well, I dont know how far Wily's power stretches. We only know he owns a city, and he has a couple hundred robots at his disposal (all of which seem to be easily disposed by protoman and megaman, so I dont consider them very durable). I think man WOULD be able to defeat him at some point, through sheer perseverance. I guess we should wait and hope for the third act to be made.. and I do hope it will be made >.>
mankind, those living in this city, they had every reason to stay downtrodden. the diabolical schemes of Wily kept them in a malaise, and eliminated anyone who might rise up against him. and yet, a hero still arose. from this oppressive bog of a city, a hero arose. his name was Joe. he lost, yes, but not for lack of heroism or will, but because Wily was one step ahead.
and yet, you, Protoman, the man who was designed to be a hero, the one who had every advantage Light could give you, the one who not only failed, but became the very thing you swore to destroy, you DARE to lecture Humanity about their failure to produce heroes.
you have no moral high ground here. you were never really a hero. a hero is one who fights even when he knows he is the only one left standing.
I really hope this gets remastered someday. I feel like with a good sound engineer behind the mix, they could REALLY make this sing in MUCH better ways.
Damnit, Protomen. Stop making me cry. You can't even mention Protoman himself without bringing tears to my eyes. Joe, now, too. And ohmigod The State vs. Thomas Light? Why do you make us cry for them?
i think the humans could have fought the cheap massproduced drones while leaving the war machines like cutman and bombman to protoman/megaman. sure, there would be casualties; there always is, but if the people in this story tried to help even a little they would have steamrolled wilys tower. the only thing the humans of this story did was De-moralize megaman and protoman.
A man who does not stand up for himself, for what he believes, for what he wants for his kin, is no man. Mega and Proto were right: Those people are the dead. They did nothing for themselves. A Hero isn't someone who will stand for those who won't fight. He stands for those who can't fight. Those who have tried, those who have the desire to change their life. The people in this story did nothing. Nothing but gripe and complain, focusing on the failure of the one being who tried to help.
Tell that to Joe
I love this songs of protoman, this is the best work of the mega man fandom
@ZaneHitsurugi
They did a Q&A at PAX a few weeks back, where they said that ACT III would pick up right at the end of the 1st album. They also reconfirmed their album of cover songs. They are so awesome live.
This has to be my favorite song of all of them.
He had to build the weapons and their power sources that's why Megaman's buster cannon is apart of his arm and uses his energy.
For as much as I like the message that one shouldn't wait for others to save you, cause only you can truly save yourself..... At the same time, the more thought I put into the context of it all, the more MegaMan's and Protoman's approach feels wrong.
It might be true that because the people were negligent to Wily's advances, quick to believe rumours, and became passive to Wily's tyranny without anyone daring to stand up against him, that they became ultimately enslaved into a miserable life... And they might end up leading up to the same situation again later even if Wily is removed, so long as they fundamentally stay the same.....
But then at the same time, they act broken because they have already been broken. There is no one there that have a sense of courage in them, cause everybody there are conditioned to be tamed into pitiful meekness since birth, for generations now.
To pretend like they should suddenly have the will to help you, just cause you claim to want to help them. To act like lifetimes worth of trauma and crippling subservitude will just disappear cause a self claimed hero came to *attempt* saving the day.... It's just ignorant.
If you want to save the helpess, you gotta first acknowledge they are helpess. You could maybe expect gratitude after you have solved their issue.... But heroism isn't something you do to be thanked, it's not something you do cause you expect help from those you are saving. It's something the strong do to support the weak, cause it is the right thing to do.
It's fine to not be the hero, to not sacrifice yourself for others... But if you want to play that role, blaming the victims for their susceptibility to abuse, is wrong.
MegaMan and Blues may have had the desire to fight Wily, but they lacked the mentality of heroes. Their priority should have been to take down the true evil that is Wily, and then seek to rehabilitate and nurture the people the best they could afterwards.... Cause rulers like Wily, gives no room for the growth of the people.
Everybody in the city, except Wily are weaklings, and in a world filled with nothing but weaklings, the strong rule. And if the strong is cruel, then their world becomes hell. You can't expect a better world if the few people that are actually strong enough to challenge the oppressive tyrant, quit halfway just cause the subservient weak ones don't join their cause.
This is the motive of the new singer from Act 3. She wants to build people up, so they can stand against Wily.
If these people tell this story to their children as they sleep; Maybe someday, they'll see a Hero is just a man who knows he is free.
If he cannot win, he will fight forever...
Here's a theory that I have about the crowd wanting Protoman dead: They want that not because he was evil, but they found his observations insulting regarding how they want one robot to fight Wily without them helping. They don't want to admit he was right. Many of you might have realized this, but I still want to share it.
And the "We are the dead" part? Aside from the band maybe finding it difficult to say in music alone that everyone's getting smashed by the state, maybe it has symbolically something to do with the people not caring about their freedoms anymore.
No, they literally are the dead
In the story Wily had the robots slaughter them in the end, after Megaman left
Yeah, that's why I said everyone's getting smashed by the state. Because they're being killed. I just offered another theory on the "we are the dead" chorus.
Ivan The Mouse Oh, by 'Smashed by the state' I thought you meant being oppressed by the government
Lord of Spaghetti Actually the quote's a reference to 1984, much in the same sort of context OP talked about.
Lord of Spaghetti Well there's still Act 3 left, maybe he comes back and saves them. The rest of them who still live that is.
Feeling...so much freaking feeling.
Actually Dr Light is his name because that's what it was in the original Megaman games, but that's just nitpicking. No one raises a gun because the chances of Wily letting people have firearms is pretty much zero, nobody builds technology because it turns out they don't just teach you to build war machines in high school these days.
They still followed Megaman though, even though they knew what would happen if he lost, they still followed him to the gates of Wily's fortress.
Holy fuck this is such a good song, it has me tearing up. It's rare a song does this to me on the first time I hear it
One can only wonder if there will be an Act III, and what it will be.
Megaman's mission didn't change in letter, but in spirit...
@sonicfanatic4949 the buildup starts in "hope rides alone" and slowly rises through the six songs before this one. PLENTY
Yup Megaman abandon's humanity after realizing that his brother was right. In fact in some of the Lives the person playing Megaman during this song turns to whoever represents Wily and screams "Finish them!"
It's Raul Panther. Some times live he says "Kill them all".
I wonder about such contempt. Yes, he had to kill his brother, and the people sound thankless, but what are they to do? Fight with stones and pipes and hammers? If the mob had attacked, even with Mega Man there, it would be a massacre. He goes from having such hope to wanting them dead in the space of minutes. I still wonder what thoughts exactly resulted in this. How it is justified. Would it have been better if they'd all stayed in their homes? Maybe. Perhaps following him and crowning him their hero felt almost mocking, as if they were just there to claim the victory. Either way, I can't find Mega Man's actions as good or justified. He said he would fight, and they followed him with hope; he drew them out and led them to face the enemy, and then left them to die. I wonder if he'll have some form of redemption.
***** No. The Protomen said it's not gonna end well for humanity. Also he wound up having content because after they forced him to kill his brother instead of saying we're sorry or he was a great hero they cheer the death.
I know, it's a tragedy. And they pressured him, but didn't force him. And from the sounds of it, they might have reason to feel that way. He may have been complicit in atrocities under Wily's command. The people would feel betrayed, and angry on the grounds of whatever wrongs his did alone. Mega Man gave up hope. Those people won't tell their children anything now. In the end, both of them gave up hope. Neither one is really a hero, or a villain for that matter. Just an individual buckling under the weight of an entire city. It's a tragedy; I don't think Mega Man is intended to ultimately be a hero.
AresSG I think Mega Man missed the point, entirely. The way I see it, Protoman still wished for humanity's freedom. Even his dying words spoke of hope for the future generations. He just realized that they would have to step up and take it themselves, or else nothing would change.
Though it comes off as cynicism, Protoman spends his last moments urging mankind to take back their lives. In Mega's grief, he misinterprets his brother's plight, and urges Wily to punish and kill them. He doesn't want them to take matters into their own hands. He just wants them to suffer.
The people cannot fight, because they did not fight. They welcomed wily. they did not resist him at the end of act 2. They allowed protoman to be a martyr instead of a leader. A saint Steven instead of a Joan of Arc (well, she died too). They might be able to fight against wily, but they do not.