The Last of Us 1x9 REACTION!! Look for the Light
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- čas přidán 13. 03. 2023
- You just have to find something to hold on to ❤💔
What do you think of Joel and his decision? Did you enjoy this series as much as the game? We are excited for Season 2 and I so need to finish my game play for The Last of Us Part II
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See The Last of Us 1x8 Reaction here >>> czcams.com/video/fVeaMZdTUJo/video.html
Also, I'm trying out a new editing style where you can watch longer reactions, but the video doesn't get blocked. Copyright has been super sensitive this year! I think this style works out very well since it flows a lot better instead of skipping so much. Thanks for watching!
Love your editing style! Wish you've done the same to your earlier Lost reactions but better late than never :P
It's like the creator of the game said. "when people ask me why Joel did that instead of saving the world, I say to them he did save the world. It's just that Joel's world is that girl".
Its about points of view at the end of the day. Everyone have their own reasons.
"... And we have just one world... But we live in different ones..." - Dire straits - Brothers in Arms
I think that was actually Troy Baker, the actor who originated the role of Joel, rather than Neil or Bruce, the game’s co-creators.
In the game you find out that the fireflys have done this before to other people, and it never works out. They have a body count and still no cure. The TV show did not bother to explain that because they probably felt it muddys the water.
I heard someone once say that the world took his daughter away from Joel, so Joel took the cure away from the world.
Even a decade later, people are still debating wether Joel's actions were justified. That just shows how powerful this ending is.
I think in the end it doesn't matter whether or not it was justified. IT was the decision joel would make. Therefore it was the right ending. As craig said in the bts, "It was the easiest decision of Joel's life."
@@2ntwins of course, but that doesn’t make it right. He did it for very selfish reasons without actually caring about what Ellie would have wanted.
I would've done the same thing. Fuck humanity, I'm saving my daughter. Even if it means she'll hate me for it.
Same for the fireflies @@NoctemAeternusMusic
It seems pretty easy to understand it all
"it wasn't time that did it"
Equally beautiful, sad, and haunting. Brilliant scene to add there!
Joel's "decision" wasn't really a decision. It's psychology. All his pain, all his torment comes back to that one moment when he lost his daughter and there was nothing he could do about it. Now he's back in the exact same position, and he can't psychologically handle the thought of not doing something. So he does. And afterwards, he compartmentalizes it. Anything to not go through that trauma again. It's such a good ending because no one does the right thing (asking Ellie what she wants), they do what people in their shoes would actually do. It's REAL.
Exactly. He is saving himself for his own misery. That’s it. They are right and wrong at the same time.
It's even more simple than that. Most fathers or mothers would not give up their baby girl for a cure that might not even work - they did a survey at HBO and they talked about it on the podcast. That feeling is just even more stronger with Joel.
However, Marlene decided to approach this the wrong way entirely. She could have been open to both Joel & Ellie and let Ellie decide. Joel would have obviously objected and possibly get physical, but he would understand eventually because he loves her. Or worst case scenario, immobilize Joel and let Ellie explain to him that she needs to do this. For the world and everyone that already died. Not this secret play that only enraged Joel even more - he already got nothing in return for delivering Ellie. He was promised everything he wanted. And Ellie was unconscious, so asking her was not an option anymore.
Sorry it's not that complicated no real father will knowingly let their child die for ANY reason. I'm not sure what is there to debate. And no even if your child wants to die for some reason the father will not let it happen. You seem to forget she's a child.
Also Can We Just Talk About How The Fireflies Just Ambushed Joel & Ellie Sneakin Up Behind Them Smokin Them Out, They Didn't Even Come Up & Talk To Them, Why Do That, Everybody In This Show Has Basically Ambushed Other People Instead Of Talkin SMH
@@silverwolf6866 you seem to be forgetting the whole point of the decision, which is that it's ellie vs everyone who might get infected going forward plus everyone joel killed in the hospital. you can't just ignore one half of that and say "there's no debate" lmao
Marlene didnt know Ellie growing up, neither that she was immune until after the bite. She probably put 2 and 2 together and assumed she was immune from birth and that Anna was lying to her about cutting the umbilical cord in time.
Its also very fitting that the episode starts with Anna's lie to protect Ellie and ends with Joel's lie to protect Ellie. Both lies could've had and might have severe consequences but Ellie's life was more important to both of them.
Ashley Johnson was a child actor on an old TV show. She played the youngest Seaver child in "Growing Pains."
ellie gave birth to ellie lolol
Also Gretchen in Disney's Recess!
and Alex from the movie, 'what women want' and Patterson from the tv show blindspot.
Fantastic and emotional episode. I like the add when Joel confessed that he tried to kill himself and that he directly says to Ellie that she saved him, had me all teary eyed
Yes that was such a powerful moment love moments like that great character development
I think the debate about the decision is more important than whatever one decision is more right than the other. This is basically a philosophical dilemma in the vein of the train coming down the tracks dilemma where you have a choiche of killing one person who could discover the cure for cancer or killing alternatively 5 pregnant women by flipping the switch to change train tracks.
Ellie's facial expressions at the end are an example of phenomenal acting from Bella Ramsey. Her face says it all
She knows he's lying for her sake, and while she may or may never forgive him for it, she's willing to accept it in that moment
In ep2 Joel says "I've heard this before, is that what this is , we've heard this a million times, vaccines, miracle cures, it never works, ever". In Joel's mind, there had been possibly dozens like Ellie who were immune who lost their lives under surgery and it still didn't produce a cure. For Joel, the Fireflies removing Ellie's agency was the last straw, he was calm, focused and was on a mission. Ashley Johnson definitely looks like an older version of Bella
She sounds like Ellie because she is Ashley Johnson, Ellie’s actress from the game 😬 Also, Laura Bailey from TLOU2 has a cameo too in this episode as one of the nurses. So cool!
That is amazing! I had mixed emotions hearing her voice here! Love her as Ellie in the game... and I'm like.. Ellie is giving birth to Ellie! 🙃
@@StormAkima I mean.. in a way, the actors were given the liberty to create the characters in the game. Neil had them come up with their own back story and everything. So Ashely Johnson most definitely birthed Ellie in the game, same as she did in the show! :P
@@StormAkima it's poetic in a way
Ellie’s mom Anna actually was Ellie from the game :^) Ashley Johnson
That's awesome! Thank you for confirming this! I love her voice as Ellie!
When she said to Marlene, the same actress who played her in the game “you’ve been with me from the start” I got emotional cos it really was them from the start 10 years ago.
Thank you for not saying "fun fact" 🤭
@@tf6026 damn marlene got shot in the head twice.
The older sitcom she was on was Growing Pains
I love this ending both in the game and the show and how controversial it is. In the TLOU podcast, the creators talked about how we as humans are capable of going either way. We could be the Fireflies, but we could also be Joel. There’s really no right and wrong. Just complicated.
Exactly. They all have their reasons and they all are right and wrong.
That's what I keep trying to tell people who fully defend joel against abby. There is a grey area that's the whole point of them game its human nature
The cool thing about this moral quandary is there isn’t a right or wrong answer. You can make a case either way and everyone would have reacted differently. But in that hospital, in that moment, what was right and wrong didn’t matter. The only thing that mattered what Joel was not going to be denied. He would’ve taken out 100 people if he had to.
Exactly that’s why I hate any argument that’s like “the fireflies could never make a cure so joel was right!” It just ruins the power of the ending to try and think objectively about it. Its genius lies in its ability to make u toss back and forth
@@tf6026 No there is no back and forth. No real father will let their child die for ANY reason. It's that simple.
@@silverwolf6866 yeah but that doesn’t make it “right” to do so
Well, there IS a right decision. And that is to lay it all out to Ellie and let her make the call.
Whether they could make a cure or not is academic, because they were about to kill their one shot in literally the first idea.
"Le's just cut it out, i dunno..."
No Joel definitely made the wrong decision, but it's the same wrong decision most parents would make. It's probably better you don't ask or tell them.
Joel knows Ellie far better than Marlene. I think you guys misunderstand the relationship there: Marlene delivered Ellie to the Fedra orphanage when Ellie was a baby and then basically just kept an eye on her from afar after that. That is made clear in episode 1 when Ellie has no idea who the heck Marlene even is. So basically Marlene knew her when she was born and then got to talk to her for one day 14 years later right before she delivered her to Joel. And the fireflies had no idea that Ellie might be immune until she and Riley got bitten in the mall. All Marlene new about Ellie until that point was that she was the daughter of her childhood friend Anna. That's it
Realistically killing people is extremely traumatic. That's why Ellie was so broken in the final episode. The killing and what happened with David took away her spark and childlike energy. If they had her kill others before that the audience wouldn't feel the devastation we all felt when she did kill and when she did go through hard situations. Also it isn't realistic that a 14 year old girl would be able to kill a bunch of Raiders on her own.
It isn’t realistic that she survived a zombie horde in Kansas City either. It isn’t realistic she killed a stalker with a knife either. It’s definitely not realistic that she held 2 grown men at gun point with a rifle bigger then her. They definitely should have showed Ellie killing more because it would make more sense for her story in season 2. What effect Ellie was not that she had to kill David, it was that she was almost r*ped and killed by David. That’s what was traumatizing for her.
This is the most wholesome reaction video I’ve watched. I’m definitely going back to watch the rest now
Dude throwing the flashbang makes me laugh every time I see it
Great reactions , (every one), to the most special series - Bravo!
Having back to back episodes where Ellie has no consent over what happens to her, I understand Joel going blind with paternal rage.
The pregnant woman in the beginning is Ashley Johnson ("Ellie" in the game). Also, the nurse with the long, brown hair is the voice actor for "Abbey" (that's all I'll say).
Great Finale Loved The Video ❤
I like to think that Joel wouldn't care if Ellie actually got to choose. I'm pretty sure it never crossed his mind what Ellie wanted the entire time he was killing everyone and the story is a lot more interesting that way too. Joel wasn't going to go through the trauma of losing his kid again and he'd rather tie up Ellie and get her ass out of there than see her choose to sacrifice herself.
Marlene could bear the prospect of Ellie's death with great fortitude, coldly reciting the equation. Her own death.....not so much, pleading for mercy.
They didn't give Joel or Ellie a choice. They could not risk them not going along with it.
They are scared of both time and them saying no. Raiders and other dangers along with dwindling resources and the fact the doctor could die would leave them unable to do it.
It was unfortunately now or never.
Ideally they could have waited and let them say goodbye or tried another way to mitigate the risks in a better circumstance.
But they were barely holding together. These were the last Fireflies left here. That doctor was likely the last one that could do it. The equipment here was not advanced enough to allow the surgery that would let her have a solid chance of survival.
And if there was even the risk of Ellie saying no or Joel not letting it happen that meant the cure was gone when it just miraculously was delivered to them.
They had the power and a plan and if Ellie or Joel's own wants or needs are in the way then they will take what they need or remove them as obstacles.
Unfortunately the Fireflies surrendered to their fear and became the same sort of people who killed Sarah and tried to kill Joel in the start.
That soldier in the beginning was wrong... But why he was doing it was to try and do what seems right in a fearful and dangerous situation.
And finally Marlene failed to be as heartless as she knew how dangerous Joel was but she tried to show him gratitude and pay back his effort by giving him his life.
But she didn't realize how much he changed and that she was taking his life away.
Joel was wrong to be sure as well because he didn't ask Ellie and even if he did it would be hard for him to accept that. But he didn't even get to ask her and he knew they didn't even ask her as they told her she didn't even know what they were going to do.
In the end, the question to me isn't was Joel or Marlene or anybody right. The question to me is that if we will shut down our hearts and empathy to justify when we take what we need from each other when things get so desperate are we any better than the cordyceps heartlessly taking from us? And if we're no better than that fungus then was humanity worth saving at all?
Always fascinating to see these discussions. Yes, Ellie would decide to sacrifice herself for the greater good. But as a parent, you don't put that choice on a child. Joel assumed that decision, as a father would do. It doesn't matter what she would have wanted. It's not a child's decision. Also, he knows her value. She doesn't value herself beyond that one purpose. She thinks a lot of what happend is her fault. "After all that I have done..." But it is not her fault. And she is worthy of living her life. Joel knows that. And he is willing to pay the price of that decision. Even if that means she won't be able to forgive him. He will always choose her life. For him, it wasn't a choice. That's why he has become her father.
I agree. He acted as most parents would act. The difference is, he can actually switch into a cold killer if the situation demands it. And it did. He could not ask friendly or only wound the soldiers. That would be stupid. They would get backup or jump him later on. So death was the only option. Hers or theirs.
Perfectly said 💯
I disagree with this take, it does matter what she would have wanted because her life is on the line whether or not the cure actually works. Both adults should have considered that and imo it is horrible parenting to not include the child in that discussion. The situation is not as simple as you say.
Also Joel just isn't a good guy...he loves Ellie and we love their relationship but the point of this ending is that we have to reconcile that with this horrible thing he did.
Unless you are or have been a parent who has either lost a child or come close to losing a child, you will NEVER UNDERSTAND that Joel had no choice, here. There was no other option, for him. Been there.
Beautifully said
I would have made the same decision as Joel.
Before becoming a parent i could debate the moral implications of Joel's choice till the cows came home. However after having a child it's not even a question, i would choose my own child over the fate of the entire universe.
The question isn't what would you DO. It is would you do it believing it was MORAL or an act REGARDLESS of morality.
Basically, most parents would do it, morality be damned. We would Gladly go to HELL for it.
Most of us don't think it would be a ticket to heaven and a morally right decision.
We see it as a sacrifice. That it is worth tainting our soul anyways. NOT as an act of moral righteousness.
It is an act we would gladly pay for.
There are very few who think it is a "free" decision with no moral consequence
The world took my daughter over fear. I saw what it became, it’s true primal self. Things won’t change. So I’ll keep my peace while I’m alive.
25:40 exactly!
yeah im torn!!! lol which is a good thing.
Fireflies thought they had some higher purpose, a responsibility that justified any atrocities, so did Joel. In the end, though, the fireflies lost because they thought they were going to live as heroes, they ran rather than fight, fought sloppily out of fear. Joel was ready to die, fought with purpose and precision.
God I love this story.
To Joel Sarah was killed for the great good too. But we react differently because she was awake in the process scream. In Joel minds these is not different to other moments he saved Ellie. He lies to protect her from the guilt and she know it.
Ashley Johnson was the youngest child on “Growing Pains”. She was very young.
1. The fact that THEY didnt ask/tell Ellie about the procedure and that would of killed her was the big issue to me.
2. No guarantee that the cure would of worked
3. They didnt let Joel say goodbye
4. its been 20 years the world is too far gone to save anyway (my opinion)
I understand where you're coming from, but I think points 2 and 4 kinda dilute the weight of Joel's choice. Joel didn't think about the logistics of a cure; he went after Ellie purely because its Ellie. If we go with the assumption that the Fireflies couldn't even make a cure or make it have an impact on the world, we go from morally ambiguous to a straight villain vs her a la Taken, which this series takes pains to avoid.
Yeah, no amount of vaccine can turn it back, it won't save humanity, they aren't the highest in the food chain anymore
They would never risk the chance of Ellie saying no. Because then they’d feel even more guilty.
In my opinion it was the "right" thing to not tell her about the procedure. well, not the right thing, but it makes the most sense in that scenario :/
@@kevinpetsky49 what tools they have to make a cure? old unkept equiment from 20 yrs ago, in just moving from boston to this lab the fireflies lost an army of people
and after seeing them act, they would just use the cure to recruit people into their army leaving anyone who doesnt join, 0 vaccines
They used a real giraffe in that scene
I'm not sure they did...In some angles, it looked like good CGI tbh 🤔
@@shannyd1 i thought so too. i think it's because the background is a green screen. here is the behind the scenes with them and a real giraffe: czcams.com/video/Ds-wgp5wS4s/video.html
"If god gave me a second chance at that moment , I'll do it all over again"
Well he got his second chance !!!
It has been so fun watching y'all react to HBO's adaptation!!!
12:37 the one on the right reached for her gun 😅
I don't think that Joel's decision was selfish. Think about it, Fireflies are not good people, when you say that he didn't murder bunch of raiders but people who were trying to help, you are forgetting that Fireflies are basically terrorists. They use children to make bombs for them and then attack other factions that are against them. Even if they got the cure, which is a big if, they wouldn't help the humanity, they would've used it to benefit themselves and to boost their power in this broken world. Also most of the people die from getting ripped apart by zombies or they just get killed by other factions so even if we think that Fireflies would try to help everyone in the world, it wouldn't do that much good. Immunity can help you a bit in this broken world, it's already gone.
Not to mention that Fireflies were willing to kill Ellie without her consent because doctor THINKS that there is a cure, he's not sure. Fireflies are awful, Joel was right to do what he did.
Perfect
Ellie was dead without Joel and visa versa for that matter, crossing the country to get to the hospital. She is now his daughter in every sense but legally, and that option doesnt exist now. He earned the right to decide her fate when she wasnt given the opportunity to decide it for herself.
Am i correct in assuming Marlene didn't know that Ellie would need to die from the beginning, in order for them to create a cure?...That she found out from this surgeon they have at this hospital, or am i mistaken & Marlene was aware of the outcome for Ellie from day 1? 😕
She did not know, yes. In the game you find two recording tapes from Marlene (and another from the doctor) at the hospital talking about how she feels after they found Ellie and what they must do with her in order to be succesful with the cure… Its a very complicated decision. But good and bad. You can listen to them in youtube. Marlene’s actress is the same btw 😊
@@mariadoloresgasparino6085 Ah right, i thought so, thanks for letting me know and for the bonus info about the tapes. Yeah i know, I've watched several reactors point out that Marlene is the actress from the Marlene in the LOU game.
These 3 are real nice ladies.
Ellie has survivor's guilt, she wouldn't mind dying to give the cure, this is very clear in the last scene and in her last dialogue with Joel when they are returning to Jackson
So Ellie’s mom was actually Ashley Johnson the one who voiced Ellie in the game😁
And the one who voiced Abby played one of the nurses she made her little Cameo
Have you played part 2? I would love to see reaction to that if not. But anyways I watched all of your reactions each episode and I loved your guys’ input, especially on this episode, i do agree that it should’ve been Ellie’s choice, but I also do see why Joel did it
Fireflys handled it the wrong way. I don’t think killing your only “hope for survival” right away is smart. Try every other option before going for the brain. Let Joel and Ellie speak and let Joel then be able to come to terms with Ellie’s decision if she wanted to give her life for the world. I don’t think they needed to rush because obviously the fireflys bunkered down in that hospital long enough without any problems that we know of. They definitely could have taken their time as well as letting Ellie and Joel come to terms with everything. They left Joel with no choice. Let alone the fact that it was 100% that they could make a vaccine or even mass produce it.
Now let’s say it did work, that doesn’t save the world. Fedra or any other group finds out about the cure and then they may want it for themselves as a way to make whatever community they have prosper from trading. That could create wars. It can’t cure the ones already infected so the infected would still be an issue regardless. The world is already filled with raiders, Fedra, insurrectionist, cannibals, sexual predators. The cure wouldn’t cure humanity’s issues as a whole. So yea there is no right answer but I’ve always sided with Joel in this situation. I know lying to her was bad but he did what most parents would do and that’s shield your kids from pain.
Marlene didn't have a long history with Ellie, she sent Ellie off to military school, she didn't raise her, Joel had a bigger impact in her life.
I just now posted something similar. Marlene's only interactions with Ellie came when she was a newborn and was dropped off at the orphanage and 14 years later on the day she was delivering her to Joel
Exactly. She took the easy way out and in a selfish way betrayed her best friend by doing that. And if she was able to do that it probably wasn't that hard to make the decision to go through with Ellie's surgery. She wasn't attached to Ellie personally.
@@JimmyOlsson I wouldn't call it the easy way necessarily. There was no way the leader of the fireflies could raise a newborn baby. Even Ellie's mother knew that and just told Marlene to find someone to raise her and keep her safe. And Marlene basically did that. But in doing so she never developed the same kind of bond with Ellie that Joel did. And even with her promise to Anna, that still doesn't make it nearly as difficult for her to make that decision then it would be for Joel to let this girl he's come to love as a daughter be killed on the possibility that they cure might be able to be formulated. So I basically agree with you with just the caveat about taking the easy way
Marlene couldn't care less about Ellie. It's funny how arrogant she sounds when she says "I am the only one who understands", as if she's making some big sacrifice by letting Ellie die. Before she knew Ellie was immune, did Ellie ever mean anything to Marlene? Her cause was all that mattered to her. Regarding Ellie, she just fulfilled her duty by putting her in an orphanage and then, yeah sure, not letting fireflies kill her. The bare minimum to keep her promise to Anna.
@@anatheodoro9596 that's an interesting viewpoint. I do think it's a little bit unfair to Marlene, who does seem to have been incredibly close with Anna. I haven't seen my high school best friend's kids in several years, but it would be incredibly hard for me to make a decision like Marlene makes about Ellie about any of his 3 kids. But I agree with you that she doesn't have any idea how hard it would be for Joel to let Ellie die even in service of finding a cure. Her connection is much more to Anna than it is to Ellie. But I don't think we Ken just discount that as Ellie is Marlene's last real connection to her best friend from childhood.
Joe made the choice he did because he knew exactly what Ellie would have chosen if the decision was left to her, and he didn't want to live with that.
After everything she's been through and every she's lost, and whose been lost because of her to get her there, - and even after that little talk they had where she told him they had to see this through to the end - it was pretty obvious she would have chosen to sacrifice herself if for no other reason than a misguided sense of penance and atonement.
Joe simply wasn't ready to lose another daughter.
Even at the cost of the rest of the human race.
Unfortunately it's a price he'll have to pay for later*
(* I haven't played the game, and don't know if this is a spoiler, but reading how the story is going so far, it's seems fairly obvious that there will be a price to be paid by Joel)
Ellie gave birth to Ellie😄 Awesome Performance from Ashley Johnson who played Ellie in the Game.
Awesome reaction😁
I appreciate your perspective on this. Time. Time is so important for processing. It's not like they had to extract the fungus from Ellie right at that moment, they didn't need the surgery right then. They pushed the surgery immediately so that Ellie wouldn't be able to say no. They pushed Joel out so that he wouldn't have time to process what was happening. It reminds me of the kind of anxiety and inner conflict we suffer when we fight to avoid an undesired outcome as if that outcome is "the end" of the situation. No. It's just another moment. There will be more moments. Maybe it'll feel bad, maybe the thing we're afraid of will happen, but there will be an After, and then another and another. Give people time. Not infinite time, and obviously there must be boundaries. But this was not a "now or never situation." If Merlene truly felt Ellie would want it, then Ellie could've told that to Joel herself. AND! Not only is it totally unknown if they could successfully make a cure, they also had no idea if they could actually distribute it, let alone distribute it "fairly," let alone it having the desired results. Rushing Ellie to her death for a slim possibility of something MAYBE better than what was happening already? Give her time. They didn't, and they lost because of it. Tragic for everyone.
That's what I've been saying, there's no rush, humanity had been fvcked for 20 years a few months or years won't change that, and even if a vaccine is created they don't have the means to mass produce it nor distribute it, plus this will create a power shift, would they really give it up?
If Ellie's mother didn't do the same decision as Joel did, we wouldn't be in this ending situation wouldn't we? Team Joel through and through!
All they needed to do was allow Joel and ellie to speak before the operation and explained the surgery to both of them it would have turned out differently but in all honesty I've played the game a bunch of times and loved the ending lol and it was ashley Johnson playing ellie mom
No matter what if Ellie dies so does Joel.
Ashley Johnson, Ellie's mom, played Ellie in the video game.
Bottom line if everyone did the right thing and let Ellie have time to make the decision, we wouldn't have a part 2. The drama and conflict is great. It's a big Ethics question. Like would you pull the lever to change the train from going off the track if it kills one person? Then what if that one person was your loved one? Classic question.
But they shouldn't have done it the next day. Let them stay a week, all is cool, talking about things. Then tell Ellie what the medical procedure is about. Let her have some time.
There was a lot of infected in the Sam and Henry part and even worse for Sam and Henry in the series cause there was a bloater in episode 5 and there was no bloater at the sniper bit when you are defending Ellie Sam and Henry as Joel in the game
It didn’t need 2 seasons. It just needed a couple more episodes to show the infected more and to show how brutal Joel can really be.
If a fan of zombies, watch "One Cut of the Dead". One of the most unique zombie themed movies ever made. However, it is one of those movies (like The Sixth Sense) that is so easily spoiled. It's best to go into the movie completely cold, no trailers, no synopsis, no nothing. Just a single word can spoil the movie. If interested, a couple suggestions for the best experience... watch it with the original Japanese dialogue with English subtitles, and second suggestion... don't Google it, again it's so easily spoiled, and can ruin the unique masterful experience this movie has to offer. 100% Rotten Tomatoes score, for a very good reason.
No way you skipped your reaction to finding out that was Ellie’s mother lol
The first reaction I’ve seen do that.
“She sound like Ellie from the game”. It is because she is the voice of “Ellie” from the game lol 😂
I don't mind there is one season
I think Joel 100% knew Ellie would choose to sacrifice herself, that's why he didn't want to even give her the opportunity to make that choice, he wouldn't be able to handle it.
He never had an opportunity to give Ellie that choice. The fireflys were never going to wait for Ellie to wake up to talk to Joel about it. They would persistently try to kill Joel until Ellie was back in their possession.
How the hell would Joel have given her that choice? She had already been drugged and anaesthetised by the fireflies
Ashley Johnson played Ellie in the game and Ellie’s mom in the series and had Ellie’s knife. Marlene is best friends with Ellie’s mom. Giraffe is real. Damn drs and fireflies not telling Ellie she’s not going to survive the procedure. Joel had to lie to Ellie. They went back to Tommy’s town.
NO ME IMPORTA UNA CURA, NO PODRIA ENTREGAR A MI HIJA, AQUI LA CUESTION ES QUE HACEMOS CUANDO AMAMOS
Esa no es la pregunta.
La pregunta es
¿Crees que es la forma de llegar al cielo o sabes que hacerlo te llevará al infierno pero lo HACERÍAS sabiendo que irías al infierno por ello?
Essa não é a questão.
A questão é
Você acha que é o caminho para entrar no céu ou você sabe que isso o levará ao inferno, mas você FARIA ISSO mesmo assim
Even Bella herself said something about this episode setting apart people's opinions.
There'd be people who are going to agree with Joel's decision but also those who does not but still respected it.
I definitely agree with Joel, but from a wider point of view, I'd respect Joel more if he didn't do what he did.
50% of people think Joel was wrong.
100% of parents think he was right.
That is NOT the truth
50% of people think Joel is wrong
100% of parents would DO the same thing REGARDLESS of if it was Wrong
The voice of Abby from the game (Part II) is one of the nurses in the surgery room - Laura Bailey.
Laura played the same nurse in the game as in this episode.
Time to go react to the alternate ending of hte game. It's hysterical.
Actually Ellie was shutted down because what happened to her in episode 8. She was traumatized and killed a man in a brutal way.
And also Ellie would sacrificed herself for humanity because of her character. She even put Joel in second priority like "after we finish this, we'll go whatever you want"
And it would not make any difference if she said NO she is just a child and they would kill her anyway for manking. I think Marlene was right but I understand Joel and if I was a father I would kill the FUCKING world for my baby.
And I dont think Marlene was trying shut down Joel for what he is capable of. She was actually giving him a chance and knew he was "Right" in her eyes and do understand this kinda of connection even being more in favor for a greater good.
So yeah, its hard and difficult but its kinda useless to debate on that knowing their whole priorities.
Imagine no one getting through this whole hell again, no more child dying in front of their parents and no more loved ones left behind for the infection or brothers having to kill themselves...
But Joel could not let his daughter die again.
And he beat a guy to death l think at the end of episode 1 when he saw Sarah in his head he is holding her and it was when she was about to get shot
Joel did give Ellie a gun in the series l have played the game and l did not mind what they left out and Joel did let Ellie have the pistol did you miss that in episode 4
The grey area of this entire story is great for a story. I liked the show version better than the game as they fleshed it out and changed the motivation to make more sense (the game reason is kind of weak, getting the guns back).
The only thing that makes no sense (both in game and show) is why Marlene was at that hospital. They were supposed to drop her off at the capitol building. That building was now the scene of a massacre and he didn't return to Boston with her to let them know what happened so in their mind the most common outcome would be that they were killed. In that world, how on earth could they even expect to ever see them again at some hospital a couple thousand miles away that he had no idea where it would be.
Joel is not a good guy. At least in the show he has a more human side than in the game.
She sounds like Ellie from the game!!? Like you didn't know 😉
I honestly didn't! I caught on right away when I heard her voice though! I haven't seen any trailers or looked up anything beforehand. Seeing, but more so hearing her was a great surprise! Love Ellie ❤
@@StormAkima Ashley Johnson gave birth to Ellie twice 💗
@@StuzRoz So true!! 🥰🥰🥰🥰
Marlene wanted to save the world. Ellie was Joel's world. As a parent I can't fault Joel.
Marlene wanted a tool to recruit more people because the fireflies were pretty much destroyed, trough the story everytime Joel and Ellie went looking for fireflies they just found corpses
I have genuinely loved your content on The Last Of US. You should consider watching Chernobyl. It is created by the same crew of this show. Chernobyl the show is one greatest limited series of recent times. Utterly relevant to today.
"She sounds just like ellie from the game"
Good catch, that IS ellie from the game.
Fun fact: That was a real giraffe, not cgi.
Instead of the rifle it was pistol
I agree that the Fireflies should have given her a choice, but let's be honest. Do you think they would respect her decision if she didn't want to go through with it? I don't think so.
Everyone Brings up it should be Ellie's choice, but if you watch the show or play the game, you KNOW what Ellie would have said. She would have sacrificed herself for the chance to save maybe the entire world. Now did the fireflies know that? No. But Joel did. And even knowing what she would wanted. Her life was more important to him than the world or what she would have wanted to do had she known.
Marlene barely have any relationship with Ellie, she gave Ellie when she was a baby to fedra then met again 14 years later only to give her to Joel
I feel that the ending is a no-win situation. Joel's choice = Marlene loses. Marlene's choice = Joel loses. So then you think there's a compromise with letting Ellie decide... However, if Ellie was involved and decided to go through with the surgery, you know Joel wouldn't have allowed that to happen. He's not going to lose another kid again. This whole season is evident of that. Vice versa... If Ellie decided not to do the surgery because it would kill her, theres no way that Marlene would let her go.
I have no problems on I would have done the same to protect my kid anyone who says different is either lying or doesn’t care for they’re kids
Didn't you read the letter when you played the game about Frank in bills home and wanted to see bill and Frank's backstory I'm the series
Ellie was cold and more careless against Joel already at start. Joel was trying to contact with her which means something was bothering her already. Seems Joel has lost the frequance with her.
But ''what happened?'' I started to ask myself. Then Ellie said something wierd that: ''I will follow you anywhere you go'' and ''We finish what we started''.
Then Joel opened his heart that suicide attempt and he has appetite of living again thanks to Ellie. And I realised Ellie got scared-worried face mimic again. Like she doesnt want that burden, new daughter role or comparing with Sarah by him? I cant name it.
At the end when Ellie woke up at the car, she became more stranger to Joel. More questions came in my mind. She already knew that Joel is a killer. She might figured that he killed em all. She might know that Joel bounded to her already that he doesnt let them open her skull. Then the most disturbing conversation happened. Joel brought up his daughter again. Ellie bacame more stranger to him.
Anyway this experimental surgery was inevitable from the beginning. Marlene could ask Ellie's idea in front of Joel maybe. At least we would know what Ellie wants that she wants to go Joel like she said or she wants to finish what they started.
Finally I must say, I felt that what Joel feels. It is terrible and unbareable that if Ellie doesnt love him anymore. I guess I couldnt fight or protect anymore if my daughter doesnt love me anymore. That's why it is saddest episode for me :(
I interpreted her earlier behaviour as PTSD; she has changed as a result of her experience with David. Later, she does not believe him but to say she suddenly doesn't love him doesn't make sense; she even says she will go to the moon with him, or anywhere he chooses. Through this ep and the last one we are seeing her loss of innocence and hardening because of david and what she suspects Joel did
@@andrewr311 My english doesnt let me to explain myself perfectly sorry. Yes ''doesnt love him'' was a bit strong word maybe. Still cant discribe perfectly what i am thinking and thank you for helping Andrew.
i do think Ellie views their relationship different than Joel does. he sees her as a daughter. i don’t think she sees him as a father in the same way. she sees him more as an friend, or equal, kind of, than he does. i do think she sees him as a protector but just not as clearly a father like he thinks of himself as. on the official podcast, the creators actually said something interesting about when Joel tells her “it wasn’t time that did it”, that basically she didn’t realize how much he cared about her and that he saw her in that way until that scene. i think that’s why she seems a bit awkward when he starts talking about and comparing her to Sarah, she’s realizing he sees her as a daughter and I’m not sure if she reciprocates it fully. not to say she doesn’t love and care about him, she does very much, more than anyone. the creators also said the scene i mentioned was also their way of saying “i love you”, so it’s not like she hates that he said it, but she is caught off guard. i just think their relationship is different than what she was thinking.
but she was also upset about not being the cure and doubting his story so she could’ve just been in a general bad mood
@@emilyrae158 Also she was suffering PTSD from her time with David; so her mood is in response to that as well
@@cendererol It is complex, as all love is, especially in the crazy world they live in. Normal psychological explanations may bot work in their world. Thanks for your thoughts Cender Erol.
"She sounds like the Ellie from the game" You don't say? 😉
My taught... Joel did what he had to do in that particular situation: save her. But thing can be seen so diferently, what if they let Ellie decide and talk tue it with Joel, he would respect her decision. Why rushing that much, it's been 20 years since the begining... Firefly do want they want for what ''they'' belive is the right thing, no matter who is going to pay. Tommy have been with them and Joel never liked them. Few side note: In this colapsing world, where would they fine all the tech that it's needed to make the vaccine, replecate those cell?? Who would be the one to recive it? why they haven't done many test befor killing the only immune humaine alive? how this doctor can be so sure that the source is in her brain? have you seen any high tech scan to see what is in their? her arm have fungus, start with it... I think the all situation was to rushed and it is exactely what trigger Joel to react the way he did. Have a good day.
You are just missing a lot of things and overthinking A LOT. It is just fiction, there is SO MANY unrealistic things in this 20 years apocalypse world… so of course they can make a cure because the fireflies still have those resources. In fact, they have been studying the cordyceps all of those years, so they know what they are doing and even Marlene says that they did scans to Ellie and all types of different tests just to make sure… But more important; the creator of the story confirmed that the fireflies would have created a cure thanks to Ellie AND THE DOCTOR. That’s the point with the ending, that Joel does what he had to with his new “daughter”, but at the same time he sacrificed all humanity by killing the only scientist who knows about creating a cure… And that is SO self-centered, like if the world evolves just around him… But then again, is understandable, and so are the fireflies. However, Joel does all of this just thinking about himself and his own desires. To protect himself. But in TLOU everything has consequences and you’ll see… That’s the main theme in this saga. Just like in real life.
I wholeheartedly support Joel’s decision to save Ellie, my only hang up at all is his lack of transparency about it. She would understand why he did what he did. Though, she spoke a lot about it not being for nothing and how everyone else had to die around her to get her here, which makes me afraid that if given a choice in the moment, Ellie would have sided with Marlene.
Ellie definitely would have gone through with it and Joel knew that. I completely understand why he did it but he did it for selfish reasons because HE couldn’t let her go.
When I played the game, I was 100% with Joel in his choice to stop the surgery and save Ellie any way he had to. But when watching this episode. I was and still am so conflicted about it.
Leaving those 2 nurses alive will be the reason why Ellie finds out soon. And this will greatly destroy Ellie's trust in Joel.
It was spores in the game l don't think they communicate like that in the game
It was intended to, but the game would have been too much for the PS3
And a guy at the end of episode 6 but both 4 and 6 l think he killed those guys to protect Ellie and himself
I think there is two things people do not touch on enough with the dilemma, one is Ellie is just as broken as Joel and is suffering severe survivor's guilt so I am doubtful she would even be in the right state to be able to give consent, and two is the firefly's are a terrorist organization that as far as we have been shown have not done a lot of good so far. If they got their hands on the cure would they not just use it for power?
On the Fireflies, that wasn't my impression of them, fwiw. The Fireflies stated goal, even in private conversations, is to restore democracy. Their members seem to include both idealists and anarchists from what I can tell, along with some straight-up "thugs." If they secretly had a goal to estalish their fascist order, they've failed at that for 20 years. If they are power-hungry, they are extremely patient because they have none. Also, despite whatever civilian casualties they are responsible for, the Fireflies were trying to recruit openly and _in public_ in Boston. So that means, at least, that the average everyday QZ citizen was not overtly hostile to them or likely to rat out recruiters to FEDRA. Despite their causing civilian deaths, they don't face widespread hostility. To me, that reinforces that their primary goals are likely idealistic, as after 20 years, people would know if that was a facade.
Anything is possible, but based on what I see in-game/in-the-show, their real problem was that they were not especially competent insurgents, rather than them being evil.
@Storm Akima,
26:03 I'm not so sure that would have changed much Kim. Ellie was Marlene's prisoner, remember? Ellie asked them numerous times to let her go and they refused, and when Ellie finally got to meet with Marlene she asked one last time and again Marlene refused and told her that she has a greater purpose. Marlene decided Ellie's fate back in Boston. I suppose, from Marlene's point of view, she had every right to do what she did, since Ellie's mother, Anna, gave Ellie to her. In her mind, she's Ellie's legal guardian. As such, she gets to say what can and can't happen to Ellie.
Joel, as the interim guardian does the same while taking an opposite approach. What set Joel off, wasn't the surgery. Yes, he was anxious when he heard that Ellie was being prepped for surgery, but what really set him off was the fact that Ellie wasn't told what was going to happen to her. Ellie was under the impression that she'd give blood and participate in tests, and where did she get that idea from? Marlene was lying to her from the beginning. Marlene might not have known that Ellie was going to have to die, but she knew that what was going to happen was more than Ellie giving blood and participating in tests. I think Joel did too, but I think he thought they'd need bone marrow at the most.
Once he learned that they wanted to extract her Cordyceps, he lost it because knew Ellie was going to absolutely die. There's no coming back from cracking the skull open and cutting the brain in half to get to the root where the Cordyceps lie.
Marlene tries to sound like the righteous one, telling Joel what Ellie wanted, but Marlene never told Ellie the truth. Ever! She kept information from her. Ellie's desire to help was based on the fact that she'd only be required to give blood and to participate in tests. Had Marlene told Ellie the truth in Boston, Ellie very likely would have told her off with one of her favorite expletives. Look at how much Ellie has changed. At the start of the third episode, Ellie told Joel not to blame her for Tess' death, and look at her in this episode, she blames herself for Riley, Tess and Sam's death. Ellie has survivor's grief and she feels she owes it to those who got her to the end of her journey to see things threw. If she was asked in this state, she likely would have gone through with the procedure, but the Ellie we saw in Boston wouldn't have. She had dreams, we saw during the realization that she was bit, and we heard her tell Joel numerous times what she'd like to do when this was all over. Marlene was okay robbing Ellie of her future. She didn't want Ellie, she wanted a lot of Ellie's and that's not fair to Ellie or her mother's legacy.
A tough decision for Joel to make, and a philosophical question that has been asked for as long as man can remember. The good of the few or the good of the many?
The arguments to let Ellie die are obvious and simple for everyone to see. Her death secures life for everyone else. Ensures no more suffering, ensures nobody else has to die, ensures no more pain and allows the world to return to normal. Now, how can one death compare with all of that? On paper, this is the obvious choice. But the real world isn't written in paper.
For one moment, stop and put yourself there. What if potentially saving the world came down to sacrificing an innocent teenager? What if that sacrifice was not even guaranteed to work?
Having lost his daughter at the outbreak of the apocalypse, when we meet Joel he is hardened and bitter. By his own admition, he has contemplated suicide at least once.
Now pretend you are Joel. You meet this young girl. Over a long, tough time together, you begin to bond with her. You are the one thing to her that she has been missing all her life and she is the same to you.
In each other you both finally become whole again after 20 long years of suffering. She makes you smile again, laugh again, she makes your world warmer and brighter. For the first time in two decades, you have a purpose. For the first time in two decades, you don't wake up and go to sleep wishing to die. For the first time in two decades you don't have nightmares about your daughters death, you now dream only of how happy you are gonna make this girl, of how you are going to make her the happiest girl in the world. You finally wake up looking forward to the day, looking forward to making this girl who makes you so happy, happy herself. To protect this girl. That has become your life goal. That is why you were put on this planet.
So, you swear to protect her. You swear to succeed Ellie where you failed your own daughter all those years ago.
Now here you are. Being asked to sit back whilst she is forced to die for a pipe dream of a cure that may well not even work.
In that moment, you have, on one hand, your entire world. The one girl who has become your entire purpose. A sweet girl who has done so much for you and to whom you owe a debt you can never repay, and on the other hand you have shadows. Nameless, faceless people you don't know and never will. People who may, or may not, be better off for the death of that girl who is your world.
Now when you put it like that, it's really no choice at all. I can safely say that, in that same position, I would have done exactly what Joel did without a moments hesitation. Its not a rational decision, but it is a decision made with nothing but a deep heart full of love.
The notion a cure would suddenly make FEDRA, cults, raiders, slavers, Fireflies and other terror groups disappear overnight is comical. A cure in this world would have made as much difference as far as outcome as having a vaccine station at a CPAC conference...
Except that Ellie's death, at the very best, would allow people to become immune. But is that really the only bad thing going on in this world? Would that really end every suffering and death and bad things form happening? The fireflies think that's the solution to every problem in the world... sounds a bit naive to me, like they're over-simplifying things.
Joel did kill 3 or 4 guys in episode 4
If there was more action the audience would become numb. The action and violence were paced so you felt EVERY kill deeply. It was perfect the way it was. Too much action would ruin it.
One of the nurses in the theater is Abby from TLOU2 game 😎
In the theater? 🤔
@@mariadoloresgasparino6085
The operating room is called the theater by medical professionals
Try educating yourself
@@ChibiHoshiDragon Try to sthu wacko 😂
mind boggling how some people hate joel for his decision lmao… when in reality they would do the EXACT same thing when it comes to their kid 😭 humans are worse than infected in this world…
When my son joined the military I was proud of his desire to serve the greater good, even though I experienced, first hand, the same military doing its best to get me killed. I see his service as a real risk to his life, but I felt pride along with fear. If he dies in combat I'm sure I will feel pride along with grief and that would be true even if he had been drafted into service rather than chosen it. Not all parents are the same.