Harley-Davidson Street Glide vs Ultra Limited! Why you should choose one motorcycle over the other!
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- čas přidán 6. 01. 2022
- Have you heard this before, "A Harley-Davidson Ultra Limited is just a Street Glide with spotlights and a tour pack?" That's not the whole story, there's is more to it than that. In today's video, we take a look at both motorcycles, highlighting their distinct differences helping you choose which motorcycle is right for you. Street Glide vs Ultra Limited
#HarleyDavidson #StreetGlide #UltraLimited #TravelingTall
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Traveling Tall
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Don’t forget ultra limited looked like it had heated grips as well!
Both great looking bikes.
The ultra has heated grips you forgot to mention it.
Great job! You named out all the reasons why I went with an Ultra and tricked it out rather than start the other way. The wet head motor alone does it for me. Great stuff!
I have the Ultra Limited and it runs 90% of the year looking like a Street Glide since I have the quick release for the tourpack and a SG seat for in town use. When I hit the road for trips I put the big seat and tourpack on.
I would love to see you get an Ultra Limited!!! With the miles you put down it makes total sense!!!
I bought the Ultra Limited and I have never regretted that one second…. the way this heavy Motorcycle handles is unbeatable 👍🏻✊🏻🇺🇸☠️
I brought my SG in 09. When I brought it I got it because I liked the stripped down look of the SG. If you look at my bike today, it looks more like Ultra than it does a Street glide. If I was to buy a new bike today it would be an Ultra.
Nice comparison Tall. You’r right about the back suspension. 12” on the SG and an 1” shorter than UL! This means that you have 1 inch less stroke!! The SG does’nt move😂😂
I own an Ultra lid 2021 now. Had a RKS before and changed the shocks for 13”…longer stroke suspension, better handling, and no scraping floorboards and sidestand anymore. The lights in Holland are different, the UL has 2 separate turnsignals and only taillight and extra second brakelight in the case. So make thisone detachable is easier,….if you want. The UL takes corners very sharp and i have no problem to keep up with a Yammie Tracer 900 GT in the “mountains” of Luxemburg 💪🏽
Excellent video, one major diffence you missed is the limited has different tires. They are touring tires with more side wall making for a softer ride over small lines and cracks in the road. The liw profile tires on the Streetglide are more firm and transmit bumps to the shorter Streetglide shocks making the ride rougher.
I was on a Street Glide. I switched to a ‘20 ultra limited. Best thing I ever did. I’m 6’ and it fits me great. 14” bars, low windshield. 131” motor with boom 2 stereo. Plush.
That's wussup man, I'm heading into an Ultra myself, coming off a SG..I'm 6' as well, I planned for some 14in bars, and a 9in klock works shield...getting ready to cross some multiple state lines! Just trying to.figure out the loudest pipes I can get! Lolq
Love my Ultra Limited. Also love a Street Glide. For long distance I would take my Ultra Limited.
Hey Tall. I have a 2014 ultra limited. When you buy the tour pack kit , it comes with four point docking brackets and break lights that go under the saddle bag lids along with relocation antenna bracket and a license plate holder for when you take off the tour pack. It takes less than five minutes to take to take off and put back on the tour pack. I have the best of both worlds 🌎
Exactly
I'm entertaining the idea of either an Ultra Limited or Road Glide Limited, but I'm not a fan of the lower fairings, do they come off fairly easily? Thank you.
You can't remove them on a water cooled engine.
First off, really enjoyed getting to meet you at Bootlegger the other day and thanks so much for steering me to the part that I needed; I was able to get it put on at the hotel parking lot and the rest of the trip went great. You saw my ultra limited sans tour pak while we were visiting. I'm only 5'4" so I'm at the other end of the spectrum from you on height and clearance issues. I definitely like the twin-cooled system and that along with heated grips and a couple of other features sold me on the ultra instead of the Street glide. I lowered my bike so it pretty much sits like a Street glide now. I think you'd absolutely love the ultra Limited. I got a seat from a Freewheeler and use that when my tour pack is off to give it a little sleeker look. Thanks again for the help and safe travels sir.
I have a 2015 Street Glide Special that I traded My 2000 Wideglide for in 2017.One of the hardest decisions in my life trading my Wideglide,it was my first Harley to.People Love the Jade Green color of this Bike with the Gold metal flake,so do I.I've always Loved this since it first came out.About the only thing I don't like are the rear shocks.You seem to feel every bump in the road and I know that's because its has about an inch or more less travel.I know that's an easy fix just change the shocks ( not cheap) and it would probably improve the handling of the bike also.Diffenitely don't want air Shocks and have to worry about them leaking down the road.Other than that I Love my Streetglide Special.
Good morning Tall, thanks for all the Great video's. I'm planning to finally get my 1st Harley this Spring and you're making it increasingly difficult to choose, but the dilemma is very well welcomed!!! I'm leaning towards the SGS in Gauntlet or Gunship Grey "blacked out" and I can hardly wait to join the HD family! FAITH, PAITIENCE, OBEDIENCE!
Hey Tall, Excellent comparison video as always!! Thank you. I'm a 2019 Ultra Limited owner and absolutely love it coming from an 08 Cross Bones Springer with 16" bars. I do need to put some 10" KST bars on to be more comfortable long distance, but the bike is ready for many miles. I have zero regrets, except that they came out with the black package after I bought mine. Otherwise, perfection!
I just picked up my RGL day before yesterday. I chose this after two Road Glide Standards. It rides dramatically differently and does sit taller. I don't notice the weight to be honest but those passenger boards will be replaced with some pegs soon as I don't ride with a passenger. Great video Tall. Keep it up!
To 'lighten' the feel..when standing the heavier bike up off the jiffy stand. Turn the bars all the way to the right, then pull it up. Instantly 'lighter' feeling.
i have an ultra and my brother has a street glide special. In the end, he's spent a fair amount on money on a tour pack, lowers, etc. I've spent money on better looking floor board inserts, and other things that make the ultra look bland. Either way, its a vortex of dollars.
For 6'2 on a street glide special I ended up.with an extended reach mustang deluxe seat, moved the floorboards out 3/4" with kuryakyn spacers, and added the brake and shift extended pedals and finished up with the 12" monkey bars by yaffe. That make a 4k mile trip the death valley comfortable
Just love Tall's informative vids covering HD.
Tour pack lights also function as a brake light as well. You may have mentioned that but I missed it. Thanks for the review Tall love your bike reviews.
I'm 6"4, and love my 2021 blacked out ultra. Highway pegs are used 95% of the time.
Awesome video-I chose a 21 ultra, added the quick detach for the tour pack comes with antenna relocation and saddlebag turn signals, a low profile seat and have basically 2 bikes for 1
Ultra limited for me. 2018 Anniversary Edition. Fits me and what I do perfectly. I need the tour pack to keep my laptop in for work. I ride every day for work all over East Texas. I like the driving lights. They light up the bar ditches well and help me avoid deer and other varmints at night.
My bags are always full of equipment and so all I really have is the tour pack to carry stuff. The only drawback for me is the bars are too short. They need to be higher. I plan on changing that in the future. It makes low-speed handling harder to do, Good video Tall. God Bless!
Excellent video. I have an Ultra Limited and I like to remove the TourPack for short-distance use or when I'm not riding with my wife, who loves the TP's rear seat. I notice a big change in handling when I take off the TP from the Ultra. In this configuration it almost transforms into a Street Glide CVO, as it maintains the engine head cooling system.
Great comparison, I bought a Gauntlet Gray Blacked Out Ultra Limited, 2021 and love it. I did the math, it was less costly for me to buy the Ultra vs buying the SGS and adding everything to make it what I wanted and I just added in some Rebuffini parts and I have a lot of add ons and very happy. Super highway cruiser, chews up the miles in major comfort and nothing like it. I would not change a thing at all, well the suspension was changed right off the rip LOL. Truly one of a kind bike.
What a great video. Something you didn’t mention that is a great edition to the ultra are the highway pegs. Those really help open up the bike and make it more user friendly for the long haul.
Hey Tall. You can’t go wrong with the Ultra Limited especially when traveling across country. I’m 6’6” myself and have a 20 RGL w/ the Extended Reach Road-sofa LS Seat which pushes me back a couple inches. Also I have extended bars that come back to me while resting on my backrest. I love it. The Ultra in this video definitely fits you. Continue to ride safe. God Bless.
You mention your seat moves you back a couple inches. Do you ride with a passenger? If so, are they now with two inches less room? Is there a way to move the tour pack back also?
@@markmaese1599 Hi Mark, Yes. My wife and I ride together. Unfortunately, it’s less room for her. As a result, so that the both of us can ride comfortably, I don’t ride with the backrest when I ride with her. The tour pack itself is mounted to the bike and cannot be readjusted.
Blessed Highway..... kuryakin makes a tour pack adjuster bracket that you can move the tour pack 1,2 or 3 inches back. Check it out!
I have a 15 limited and comes with an adjustable tour pack. I can move it back 3.5in back and I did so for my passenger. Because I put an extended reach rod sofa since I'm 6' 4.5" tall. I also put the 12" apes with a 7.5" pull back and is very comfortable. With the 12's your hands are right at the top of the batwing but air is still funneled over the top of your hand. Due to the aerodynamics of the batwing. The biggest advantage of the Limited over the S.G. not mentioned is the length. Also with the water cooled heads on the Limited you get 10:1 pistons. Once you set the bike up right with cams,exhaust,air intake,hydr. lifters,adjustable push rods,rods, a tooth on the drive sprocket from 41 to 40,and a good tuner in place. The big bike you speak of eats S.G.'s for breakfast. Plus the extra length of the Lim. is so much more stable and handles like a dream. Just my 2 cents about the 2 bikes but I'll never have a desire to ride a S.G. after having my Lim. I rode out to Beartooth Mountain Pass with other half and put on 2450 miles in 6 days without a problem or ache. You won't do that on a SG no matter what model it is. RIDE SAFE and WATCH THOSE 4-WHEELERS ON CELLS!!!
Great review! Thanks Tall!
I have a 2021 Street Glide Special and I’m turning it into somewhat a SG CVO, at least with the Kahuna collection, lower fairings and other small changes. Coming soon, a king tour pack. Oh, and I’m 5’5” so it’s perfect for me. I agree with Tall when it comes to handling and weight issues.
Tall, Another great comparison video. I was in Bootlegger a couple of months ago, nice folks and dealership. Now being a Roadglide guy I have to sat that the Ultimate Touring Motorcycle that Harley makes in the Roadglide Limited..LOL.
I’m 6’4” and ride a 2004 Yamaha Star Venture Midnight Edition and the tall seat height and length of the bike was more comfortable for my height. When I get a second bike this Ultra Limited may be something I’d consider because it comes with some of the things I already have (nice in 2022 Harley is catching up 🤣kidding…a little…kind of) Nice bike
Wow, I was just trying to decide which bike I wanted to buy but was struggling and didn't want to make a mistake and purchase the wrong bike. Even though I still haven't decided which to go with, you bundled a lot of info in this video and I will be referencing back to it in making my decision. Thank you! Actually Harley could do us all a favor and combine the benefits of both bikes. Then I wouldn't have to make this decison. Which ever way I go, I am still forced to buy extra parts to create the bike I want, and that is going to add to an already very steep tab!
I went from a Street Glide to an Ultra. Love it. Never looking back. And yes, I rode a Road Glide Ultra & there was nothing magical about it. Prefer rhe Batwing.
Definitely both are beautiful in all black! Awesome video tall!
I am 6' and need an extended reach solo seat ( Saddlemen ) on the touring bikes i order to feel comfortable and not sliding into the tank all the time. If I wanted an Ultra, that stock seat and tour pack would surely have to come off! Ultra's higher profile tires + higher shock + smaller rim size = *cushier ride.*
I really like my Lepera seat. So far it's the only seat I'll run on my bike. I should have mentioned the higher profile tire size on the Ultra. Thanks for watching Terawatt.
Thanks for sharing this perspective of a taller rider. I am keen to get the Ultra.
Love the color on that Ultra.
I love my ultra limited! Made a few adjustments to fit me at 6ft. Made a few bad vids about it lol. Keep glidin!
FINALLY!!! Somebody that understands my pain. I'm only 5'11 and have a 32 inch inseam and both bikes sit me to close to the tank. I ride the Hammock Seat on my 2015 Ultra Limited, but believe it or not, the most comfortable seat I have ridden is the police seat (aka the tractor seat). For a long legged rider, it sits you up higher, moves you back farther and puts your knees at a comfortable bend. It also give you a lot better control.
When you use the kit to remove the tourpack, it comes with turn signals for the saddlebags. 👍🏾
Gday mate , Maybe for when you travelling , a Road king special with a Advanblack king tour pack and a freedom screen , best of all worlds , and a lot lighter , just no music, but I prefer to listen to my Harley sounds anyway.
I just went from road glide standard to a ultra limited. I miss some things about the road glide but love the ultra. I’m short and I’m still going to have to change the seat because it pushes you way to far forward. And yes, Those rear floor boards are a pain when moving the bike.
I just came across this video from Tall and I have a 2016 Ultra Limited. I'm a whopping 5'7" tall and just bought this bike last year. I quickly found out that I had bad inner leg cramps around my upper thighs from the stock seat. So I recently bought a REACH seat from HD and I'm closer to the ground. So maybe this seat change might be something that would benefit you. Now I am changing to a set of Paul Yaffe 10" Original Monkey bars. Doing it myself instead of giving a dealership a $1k to do the install. Hope this helps and keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up.
Happy new year to you and your family ride safe and enjoy always enjoy watching
Mike rides a Street Glide and I ride a Road Glide Limited. Only thing I don't like about the limited is where the air comes out on the lowers, if you are using highway pegs the air is very hot on the legs. My wife loves the comfort of the tour pac as well. Good video Tall
You put this video out shortly after I decided to purchase a 2016 Ultra Limited last year. I had been looking at all the touring bikes, including Indian, and finally decided on the Ultra. I'm 5'7" so this was certainly the biggest bike I have ever owned. But after searching and comparing my notes I recently bought a HD Reach seat which lowered the seat height and brought my legs in closer to the bike. It also brought me closer to the gas tank but I'm not done with my mods yet. I just got a set of 10" Paul Yaffe Original Monkey bars which is my next winter project, then I plan on putting Legend Suspensions Air-A shocks on the rear with the compressor and hand switch on the bars and a gauge on the inner fairing. Love my Ultra and plan on riding it this next year from Sacramento to Wichita Kansas and back. Just something else on this old man's "Bucket List.". Thanks for all the videos.
I'm also vertically challenged. Would you mind showing me what type seat was you chose please? I'm also buying a Ultra. Any help would be apprecuated
I still like my 20 Street Glide with the added tour pack. I also upgrade to stage 2 on my 107. It really woke up the engine. I like the ultra but I’m partial to the street glide.
Love the content Tall, keep it up bro....
Streetglide and Streetglide xl as I like to say!! Streetglide comes with 12” rear shocks and limited and roadking come with 13” shocks, Streetglide comes with 1” longer front springs in front compared to roadking
Thanks for the info. I forgot to mention the saddle bag guards.
Thanks so much. Keep doing reviews like this
It was a pleasure to meet you today at Bootleggers bro, keep your knees in the breeze my friend
Awesome video I really enjoyed watching happy new year to you and your family road safe and enjoy ride safe and enjoy
Very cool, explanation and compare Tall. Thank you!!
Great video, very informative, really enjoyed!
I feel better about getting my ultra now thanks man
I went from a Street Glide to a Limited. I'm 6'2". I agree with everything you said. In parking lots, Street Glide is easier. On the highway, Limited is the way to go.
A suggestion on climbing aboard: watch how Motor Officer's mount. Stand on the right floorboard. Then swing your left leg over the seat. Easier on my old legs, and easy to clear the Tour Pack.
Get off by standing up on the right board and swing the left leg over. Easy, and safer, since you're not stepping off into traffic.
I have a 2011 SG, my next bike will be an ultra classic for sure! Although the road glides are growing on me. You can also get the ultra classic low which makes it much better for the shorter people.
I am 6'3". Love the look of the bat wing bikes. After watch this, I may have to reconsider. Hip and leg cramps are a problem. And I have bad knees from years as a Paramedic. Thank you for the insight.
I just got my 2017 CVO Ultra a month ago and the ride is incredible!! I am currently trying to convert it to the street glide version but the total cost to do that is somewhere around 600 bucks. The tour pak is hard mounted so you have to buy the quick detach kit, lights for turn signals, which I'm getting the slim bag lights from Custom Dynamics anyway, plus if you still want to ride 2 up you have to purchase a sissy bar and back rest, another few hundred unless you go chinese. But then the quality just isn't there compared with the Harley chrome and steel parts. So to convert my ultra to a street glide we're talking about 8 bills and some change. Good stuff as always Tall and God Bless Brother! Ride Safe!!
I love that bike I have a 2013 electric glide classic, I out the 10-inch bars and one stage, new rider three seasons and wondering about changing the back shocks from the standard if will make a huge difference with wifey riding along/also switched all lights with custom dynamics as you showed in prev vids. Now just got a louder horn than the standard.
Great review! Get an Ultra and make the tour pack convertible (do it yourself for around $150 instead of paying Harley $1000 plus!!! It’s easy!!). Chop the windshield down and slim the seat, and you have 2 bikes in 1, for less than $1000 total.
Thanks for the great comparison. I presently have a heritage softail and we want to upgrade. I’ve rented a street glide and really like it a lot. I’m only 5’6” and I’m 60 years young. We were thinking of a ultra but the seat height is going to be a issue for sure. My son has a new road glide but I don’t like the forward design of the fairing. I really think a street glide with a tour pack and some other upgrades like extended bags and lowers is the right fit for us. Thanks again
Good Job breaking down the differences.... not knowing back in '09 Picked up a CVO Ultra, it took a bunch of $$ to make it double as a Street Glide.... HD used to have the amp under the tour pack (not sure if that changed), went aftermarket on the tunes. I am 5'9" with a 32" inseam, lowered the bike 2" to get me flat footed. Me personally the lowers are the way to go hands down, as i ride 12mo's a year, ran across several articles that stated motors run cooler with lowers. All of which can be added to a SG. I don't like the stretch bags, as I on the last 3 builds go to a D&D Fat Cat. Less HP left on the table with a 2 into 1 sys. (not a fan of ghost pipe) All said and done, I like the best of both worlds, and you nailed it (higher center of gravity w/Tour pack). Like your Challenger Vids too, never thought I might even think of going that direction. I'm still shopping, but do so with a clear mind. Thanks for the help.
Always enjoy your videos
Thanks for the video so helpful
Tall, I had the same problem with my 2019 Limited sitting way too close with my "boys" sitting on the tank so I installed a Mustang Summit seat and it sets me back 2". So much better.
Great video Tall, I'm 5' 8" and ride a 2017 Ultra limited, I haven't had any issues with seat height, although lower is usually better, 60K miles of comfort and it is nimble. Also I had Mean City Cycles modify my stock seat, it has really helped for long rides. Thanks for your video's, hope to see you soon.
I'm 5'7" and just bought a 22 ultra...I'm on the balls of my feet..I can push it back but would rather be flat footed...what did they do to your seat..any other seats you recommend... thanks
I’m 5,8” on a 2016 ultra limited. Out in Vegas .
Love your video. Got another follower bro
Excellent comparison video!
Thanks for the comparison video. It was really helpful to see the bikes side by side and to understand the differences.
But pls. allow one remark: The doodling of the background music was totally annoying.
Hey Bro, the Ultra Limited is a good look on you...but you would definitely need to change the seat...😂😂😂...thanks for sharing Bro, till the next one...stay blessed Bro
Really good video. Very well done 👍
I know one thing for sure, I 6'4" and I love my Ultra Classic. I have a Heritage Softail, Road King and a Ultra Classic. My number one go to bike is the Ultra Classic. I have just put a quick release bracket on my your pack and added a quick release sissy bar and back rest. I love it !!. Ultra Classic is the way to go. it rides so smooth, at 80 I do believe I could stand up on it. There is no comparison between the two. it looks to me the Ultra fits you better. but like you said, you need a tall boy seat. you look better on the Ultra
If you had to keep only one bike, which would it be?
Thanks for the tips helps out
Hey Tall, like you said a street glide is basically a stripped down Limited. There's another difference especially on the used market. People pay MORE for a street glide because a lot of people think oh it's a "street glide " so it's the cream of the crop. I have a 2013 EG and after a few modifications will look like a "street glide" but it will cost me far less than buying a street glide and adding a tour pack, 4 point docking bracket, painting it and such. Ride safe, keep gliding 🤙🏾
Both beautiful bikes.
I've owned several of each and prefer my current CVO steetglide over the ultra limited. I've got the detachable tour pak for mine but only use it for 2 up which is only 10% of the time. Like the RG vs SG it comes down to personal preference
You get impressed with the bells and whistles. LOL.
I sold my 09 street glide and bought an ultra limited. Love it. But I also loved my street glide
Great video. I have 2014 UL.
Thats what i own is a 2020 urta limited i love it have 8 speakers two amps and stage two but now its at my dealer getting 128 zippers with 472 cam and Krome works header and yes you will love the urta i also put the heated and air condition seat on keeps your but from sweating on the hot days and heat is nice for cool nights nicest bike i have ever owned you take off on one for a 500 mile day you won't want to give it back !! and forgot to bring up the cool and heated seat gives you way my leg room and ive ben to your dealer see you this spring be safe !
I bought a street glide and am slowly turning it into an ultra. I wanted a 2021 with that sweet snake venom paint and black finish. They only made the blacked out on the street glide. Ended up finding one that already came with a factory paint matched tour pack. And even when i bought the bike, i had no plans on keeping the tour pack on it all the time. But its only been off once since i bought the bike. Really just need to add lowers and speakers in the tour pack yet and i will essentially have an ultra. Hoping to have that done before sturgis next year.
I’m looking at getting the Ultra limited love the travel package
Tall, i have an Ultra that I am changing to a street glide. I will have the best of both worlds. Almost finish my conversion. Stay tune. Appreciate the video.
Thanks for watching Big Rob
I rode a softail springer for 13 years before buying an ultra…oh…my…gawd the differences, wow. I love the tour pack, I love having all that waterproof space to hold gear! These helmets aren’t getting any cheaper, plus a comm unit, plus youtube recording and audio gear…without trying you easily have over $1k just in a helmet rig. Sure is nice to put that thing in a lockable tour pack before walking into a restaurant.
Thank you for sharing!
Street glide cvo 2015 - 2017 has liquid cooled twins, too.
For 2018, the CVO Street Glide loses water-cooling and gets an oil-/air-cooled Milwaukee-Eight 117 powerplant.
The Ultra Limited has so many more conveniences for long distance travel .
I think it's the only way to go .
Don't forget the rear crash bars on the Ultra to protect the saddlebags.
Good video tall, street glide for me though… unless i go for the OTHER bike… 👊🏻🇺🇸
Nice review. I love the Priodigy rims on the SGS. Very sexy. The Enforcer rims on the Ultra limited are played out. I would have to upgrade them.
I prefer an air cooled bike. Nice and simple and you have to be more of a true motorcyclist to understand you need to keep moving to keep the bike cool. Not just sit there like your in a Honda Accord. I'm glad i clicked the vid because i forgot a lot of the touring line is water cooled. The best is the Electraglide Standard. I ride a 13 Streetglide. 13 inch shocks and no computer screen or abs but i keep an eye on new releases because at some point i'll need a new bike. Good video
I have filler-lights and lights on my side saddles on my Ultra. I had the SG in the past. They are both great machines. However, I do love the heated grips on the Ultra on those cold days. I think shorter riders would be better on the SG. I think both bikes are made for those of us who are 6 feet.
Thanks 6-2 riding a 20 SG LOVE IT but I do need a tall seat
With a head set on the limited you can change stations, search songs, take and make phone calls and also voice commands for gps. All that good stuff, to distract you, from your riding. lol
A disadvantage is the Ultra Limited loses the ability to remove the lowers on those summer trips. For the price difference new, I would pick a limited again.
I purchased a 2015 Ultra Classic Low last year, and have put 10,000 miles on it since.
I am 66 years old and around 5'7" and l can put both feet flat footed on the ground while seated.
Harley Davidson came out with a "Low" version of the Ultra in 2014 for us shorter riders thet wanted the bigger touring bike.
I'm just pointing out the fact that shorter riders like me don't have to settle for a Street Glide if they want the additional options of the Ultra.
Tall , I'm 6'4 280 . I roll on the RG Ultra. the RG fits me better. And with the pack off it looks and feels sportier
The OEM rear shocks on the 2019 Street Glide are 12” on center, so installing 13” shocks gives the bike an inch of lift in the rear. Fairly subtle change that shouldn’t be an issue at all. I’m looking at installing 13” Ohlin HD777 shocks on the rear of my 2019 Street Glide. For anyone that has made this change, let us know how that changed the ride, if at all.
been following you for a bit...great content...also would like to share a few pics of my 21 ultra which may help bring you to that decission ...dont see a way to share those here ?