Wood Densification Experiment
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- čas přidán 8. 03. 2019
- Using the method from the paper by J.Song et. al. ( www.nature.com/articles/natur... ) as a rough guide, I took a shot at densifying a couple of pieces of wood in my basement! The procedure uses a chemical soak followed by compression with heat. Basically, a spa treatment for wood.
It's pretty damn cool if you ask me. But who's asking really.... - Věda a technologie
The public would like to see a relative strength test.
Come on do wood strength test to us, and see
a strength test was done by who ever wrote the paper he had, use the link czcams.com/users/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbENsNERmbTFjWjdLd2Ewd2VvSkpXdW40eXBTQXxBQ3Jtc0tuTFQtSUpaaW5IcGhhVGFMeXJUUkp4eUxFcFZaWE9VSWo4UmVDajhiR0ZKOHVhUnpMd2txd3E4dDctcWRBYlY4VzZSUzZHYlZHSzBVdkEwVXNkTTgwYklhZ0x6ZmFlbHBJenYxMnk3UlRteVYtR2dYVQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nature.com%2Farticles%2Fnature25476
@@lyvwyr70 sure, but we'd like to see THIS result tested. You see, not everyone owns a $3000~4000 heated press, while on the other hand C-clamps come for *much cheaper*.
Which is why this particular result needs testing.
@@inverse2k1 I'm about to apply for a research grant to see if you can make a similar material out of mycelium composites
Back in 1972, when I was 17, I did a project which counted towards my physics A level. I tried macerating toothpicks in various solvents to dissolve the lignin (I think it was) and replace it with cellulose varnish to compliment the cellulose fibres. I had some alarming encounters with strong acids. We had a tensiometer, but my biggest trouble was fixing the toothpick without damaging it before finding its tensile strength. It was a null result, but nobody cared because the emphasis was on methodology and the treatment of statistics (before pocket calculators were affordable!). When I saw this upload, I laughed and shouted with glee!
I shuddered as you attached the foil over the lye solution. In fourth grade, for balloons, I made hydrogen with lye and balls of aluminum foil. Thank you very much for this fascinating way to vastly improve wood strength. The staining by the process is attractive.
You should do a Collab and send some to the Japanese guy who makes "sharpest X kitchen knife in the world" videos out of strange materials, would be interesting to see!
Dark liquor is concentrated and then burned in a recovery boiler to produce electricity, heat and steam to run a Kraft process pulp mill. Kraft process combined with the recovery boiler was an amazing invention that turned a very energy intensive, expensive process of making paper into very energy/material efficient affair. Nowadays pulp mills routinely produce more electricity, heat and steam than they need and sell the surplus to nearby industries and municipalities.
Cool. I had no idea. Thanks for the info.
It does require some good pollution controls on it, though, since it produces a lot of nitrogen based pollution.
For all the boiling steps you probably could have pressure cooked it in an instant pot. Also, another step that may be worth doing: consider putting the wood into the lye solution in a vacuum chamber (which they sell for cheap for de-gassing silicone and resins), pulling a vacuum until all the air in the wood bubbles out, then releasing the vacuum so atmospheric pressure pushes the lye deep into the wood.
All good suggestions. Probably the best use of an instant pot yet.
If the pot is rated for concentrated sodium hydroxide 😉
Instant Pots are bad pressure cookers. And bad slow cookers.
Isn't an InstaPot made of aluminum?
I’m really looking forward to seeing a heater shield made by 2 layers of this densified wood and how much it can withstand the swords, maces, bolts, etc. Would that be too much to ask 😂
Great video by the way. thanks for showing this experiment
Very interesting! The problem with the clamps is that you only have initial pressure, when the plank shrinks the pressure reduces to nil. To apply constant pressure, just use gravity: a couple of concrete blocks on your "sandwich" will probably make some effect.
For the "rinsing", you probably want to continue rinsing until you can see through the water. The goal is really to get rid of the lignin. Also, maybe it can improve things if you can make the reaction in a pressure chamber (you mentioned that) to force the chemicals between the fibres. Maybe it'd improve the result to have it shaken during all the soaking operation in a pressurized environment.
Now, for what to do with it... From what I understand, it's soft and easy to bend before pressing it, so... just bend it! I'd try to make stuff that needs to be light and reasonably solid, such as plane propellers.. Now we're talking...
I'm really glad to see just a regular dude actually testing this research paper. I was looking up wood hardening, and kinda fell into the rabbit hole of thinking "How can a regular fuckwit like me make a baseball bat outta this crap. Surely there'll be a market for it it if actually works."
So, now I at least know that it works. Now to brainstorm ideas on how to essentially compress a fence post, and keep it hot for a day.
I'm planning on trying this out with a pair of aluminum plates to sandwich the wood, and big bolts to press/clamp the wood to compress it. A silicone heat pad or anything else similar on each plate and that should do it.
Man, thank you so much for this video. I've been dying to try this since the paper first came out. Your video is the first most consistent success I've seen. Thanks for taking the time.
Thanks Victor-Antonio! I appreciate the feedback. Cheers!
Weighing the wood before and after would've been instructive because it would show mass lost via solution. This channel is like AvE minus the big shop and endless tools!
Using aluminium plates between the clamps would solve a lot of problems and reduce the oven time quite a bit. It solves the pressure and heat dissipation problem since wood and ceramic are insulators and your wood peaces are just heated around the edges.
Beside I really love your easy way of encountering this topic! Cheers a lot for this!
And your way of making this video is very entertaining. Good one!
The usual ceramic is fine. I use all-ceramic baking dishes in kitchen, can affirm the ceramic being somewhat a heat insulator is not a problem in the oven.
I believe the issue is that the steam has no way out from the middle. I'd try using clay bricks or other semi permeable material so that wood would dry out quicker.
Your aluminium has turned into a great big volume of hydrogen luckily you didn’t have it on an open flame lol
I'd love to see what it looks like when worked, sanded, and polished. Like, for aesthetics. Not just the demo at the end showing how hard it is.
I wonder if it's stable. I can imagine humidity causing it to puff back up. Pretty cool to see it squished.
really nice. What a funny moment at 6:25, he said 3 and wrote 4 in the Na2SO3
My brain disconnects from my mouth on occasion ;)
Thank you for sharing such a fascinating experiment you are truly awesome and wonderful ^^
Cool experiment demonstrating densifying wood.
I've got this paper printed out and I wish I had the equipment to make enough wood for a ukulele or other small string instrument.
Thanks for making this video. It's helped get the confidence needed to attempt the experiment as well.
Cool! Good luck mate.
@@dork3nergy Do you believe it is possible to economically recover the leftover lignin? I just read a paper on making carbon foam from things such as bread and.... you guessed it ... lignin.
Yes, that is possible. The black liquid you get from this process can be purified. Here is a paper you might find interesting.
tigerprints.clemson.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2919&context=all_dissertations
@@dork3nergy Thanks for the paper link!
The next burning question is: What do we have to do to get you back into your lab doing more awesome shit (and recording it) :-)
The second part of that is the limiting factor. Hang tough, I'll get back into it for sure.
You rock! Great experiment!
Thank you! Cheers!
Would love to see bamboo densitied, or enough of the oak in long enough strips to make a bicycle with triangular frame (coated with water resistance... Maybe epoxy). Would have to get creative with the joints
That would be interesting. Have a look a this article. Might give you some more ideas!
www.intechopen.com/books/bamboo-current-and-future-prospects/bamboo-its-chemical-modification-and-products
Yes, God damn, this is very interesting! And it's a very-very interesting to know its' strength after this experiment :) But I guess that it is necessary a much bigger oven to make a bigger plank :)
This is f*kn awesome!!!
I wish you made test on these too see how strong it got 👍 I can’t wait too buy block off this stuff to experiment and build stuff with it😁
It's rumored that the strongest types can actually be used to make daggers and axes.
Just a thought. Pre warm the wood, go to solution warm, cure/press under vacuum.
Clamps are only applying the rated force - per square inch or for the face of the clamp. So when spread out over the full surface of the item it becomes much less - so I don't think you hit the compression you wanted.
Imagine, if you will:
Forrest elves using densified wood instead of steel or gambeson for armor.
Love it!
So much work. But this was awesome!
If you can condense a skateboard deck that would be amazing, if you’re up for a challenge Braille Skateboarding makes a series in CZcams called “you make it we skate it” and they test to see the durability or if they can break a board sent to them. It’d be great to see them try and break wood as hard as metal
That IS interesting. I'll keep that in mind. No promises though, there are always more projects than time.
Great minds think alike! You read my mind haha. I assume you were probably researching making boards too lol
I wonder how to combine this with laserkerfed wood; There's some amazing patterns that you can cut wood into that makes it act like a spring and if you densify it like this, I bet that you take out a lot of potential points of failure and allow it to stand up to more bending stress.
Wood Has Changed For Ever!!
nice experiment
So we can officially make diamonds out of wood?
Srsly, I just stumbled over this topic and wonder how much one could scale this up with resources available at homedepot, maybe for outdoor furniture.
Since 2009 there have been several metastudies that, together, suggest that scientific studies are simply not particularly reliable. Seriously, if you're considering making a meaningful decision (like a medical decision) based on one study . . . maybe don't. No passion or talent for their profession -- like Disney writers.
Very interesting...
Nicely done. If you do investigate this further, it would be interesting to know the shrinkage rate along the length and width of the sample, as well as the thickness. That makes me think of the weights before and after.
Finally, as exciting as this new process is, I have to wonder what volumes of caustic liquids such a process would produce, and what additional steps would be required to re-use or neutralize them.
All good questions. I do know that those chemicals are (or were) used regularly and in vast quantities for making paper so there is probably a system in place.
@@dork3nergyYeah, it's basically Kraft process but applied to wood veneer (spinning a log and using a long blade to "spiral-unwrap" it into a sheet) instead of chopped wood. The purpose is also basically the same; the only big difference is that Kraft paper uses microscopically wide (but a decent length, usually around an inch/couple centimeters) loose fibers that are then chaotically packed into a sheet and lightly pressed, while the densified wood uses >=mm thick sheets of naturally aligned fibers, stacked as appropriate for the target application, and then pressed far more aggressively to actually crush the fibers into a (nearly) void-free macroscopically-thick "brick".
Very interesting. The properties of wood are well known as building materials, what happens to the engineered wood over time? How does it last in a slightly damp environment or when it's cut?
After fully drying, I wonder how dimensionally stable it is. Might it make for a really nice sole on a plane, or drawer runners that virtually never wear out?
Fantastique!
Hey there! another question, what kind fo mask do you use as a safety gear (if you use any)
Thanks!
ill try in speaker cone material
Imagine you could take fast growing pine and make wood flooring from it
Omg I will try it out too 🐱
The chemical byproduct wonder what use it could have hopefully you find one
Have you thought about trying this with pulped wood and see if than bind together with compression and heat
if you went with 24 hrs of time at temperature, do you think it would be fine to cut the oven off in the middle (at night) but leave it under pressure, then continue heating the next day in an effort to prevent the house from burning down?
I think all the oven does is speed the evaporation time so yes, it should be fine.
Nice video sir, just wondering if after compression will it be able to be bended steam application?
Or it might return somewhat near it original thickness?
I found that the wood sucked up moisture and would swell but it didn't retain it so when it dried out again it was basically the original size. Based on that steaming might work but you might have issues when the wood shrinks back. You might do better shaping it when you are compressing/heating after delignification.
You know that they use caustic soda to dissolve alumina from bauxite...? Aluminium is VERY sensitive to sodium hydroxide! And it will also make glass go milky, as glass is slightly acidic.
Who knew chemistry could be useful?!
Great video! thanks for making , sharing, and teaching!!
Question for you though: Wouldn't this process leave the wood particularly susceptible to moisture absorption? not unlike a sponge dried into a thin wafer by simply smashing it flat and letting it dry while under pressure. When the wafer encounters any moisture it will wick it up and swell back to close to its original size . perhaps this could be solved with the use of a vacuum chamber and epoxy resin to seal the wood into its wafer shape?
That's an interesting thought. My guts tell me that simply soaking it in water would not be enough to break the hydrogen bonds formed between cellulose strands. I will toss a piece in a beaker of water and make a short video with the results.
cool ! :)
@Killianwsh I did the H2O experiment but somehow lost much of my footage of it. The results however confirm your suspicion. It does indeed swell up. There is a rapid but limited expansion in the first 6 hours but then the expansion slows. It never regains it's full initial volume, you get about only 70% back after over 3 weeks soaking in the tub.
After digging around on the internet a bit there are a number of papers that discuss waterproofing densified wood so it seems that this is a common side effect.
Thanks for suggesting this. Very interesting.
As a side note here, after removing the densified wood from the water and allowing it to dry out, it shrank back to it's densified size. Crazy eh.
Most crazy indeed! Thank you for following up with this. The shrinking back to pre-soaking dimensions seems to indicate that the initial process does indeed seem to actually seriously alter the internal cellular structure rather than simply desiccate and compress them! One is forced to wonder just how much more dense they could be made on something like a Rockwell hardness scale, if this were combined initially with vacuum enhanced epoxy/air displacement or even simply allowed to absorb a every liquid thermal (instead of moisture or air dry) setting resin (like cactus juice) instead of water. allowing it to "drink up" the resin initially, then give it time to "weep" any excess resin back out until it shrinks back down again, then actually putting the sample in the oven to cure.
You may find that there could very well be a commercial market for some thing like this as wood does have many desirable properties that make it superior to metal, stone, and plastics for certain applications (naturally high flexibility and very predictable linear crush resistance just to mention two)
When combined with the chemical, environmental, & rot resistance of plastic afforded by the resin, I would imagine it would make a very attractive, sustainable natural product alternative for many purposes.
hey dude that's an awesome job. couldn't you pass me that article? it's for a school project and I'd like to use it.
Found this link for you :
www.scinapse.io/papers/2787189653
Good luck!
@@dork3nergy thank you so much dude, you save me.
I like to have a electric guitar body n neck made out of this, or rather do it myself. But I would need to be able buying that type of wood.
That was really quite convincing. Though would like to see results of strength test. Fucking amazing!
What does resin impregnated cherry wood or resin impregnated cherry wood mean?
What about testing for sound? How good is
Unfortunately what is often ignored is water permeability and reaction to moisture. The article did look at moisture exposure (20 C 95% RH) and there was about 10% swelling in the densified unsealed wood. But what really matters is: is it more or less water-permeable than normal wood, and, what are the equilibrium dimensions at 100% RH and mechanical properties at that density? Because ultimately it's not useful to densify wood past equilibrium nonpressurized density at max RH. But good on you for trying this out! Saved me some time.
There was some chit chat in the discussion about moisture and this stuff. It does swell up with water and collapses back when dried. You'd really need to seal it off to make it usable.
@@dork3nergy they made it mostly impermeable by soaking it in mineral oil post-drying. Reduced moisture absorption 4x.
I wonder if if you boil soaked it in . Watered down tight bond 3 then press it .the whole process uses a alot of water .
Not sure what you mean there but whatever you boil it in, you need to remove the lignin in order to compress the wood down. At the end of the process the stuff is really dense but will take up water if soaked so the wood glue at the end might be a good idea.
Here's a link to the complete research paper: www.scinapse.io/papers/2787189653#fullText
Uhhh huh huh does it also work on morning wood?
Thank you, I wanted to try this but was not sure of the purity needed, most stuff is food grade 99.5 NaOH and the sodium sulphite anhydrous 98% pure, is this sufficient?
That should do fine. This is a bit of a brute force deal.
@@dork3nergy Thank you :)
Don't blow up the house using the pressure cooker.!!! Those things are lethal cooking devices .... especially when used with those healthy chemicals... maybe..?... and you will never be able to use the cooker for food again...Just a hunch. Love your humor and the Canadian accent.... or maybe its from Minnesota?..... 🤔
Does this compressed wood more resistant against fungus or bacterias ?
Not sure about that. Wasn't mentioned in the papers I read but, my hypothesis would be yes since this process seriously decreases all the little wet places that microbes like to live.
18:25 there’s another guy (NileRed, maybe, who did this and he bought a several thousand dollar heated press. That was overkill of course, for most people, so your method wasn’t too bad.
17:50 I doubt that your “early release” was a problem. You might try that next time (if there is a next time) to cook the wood samples some more so as the sample expands if pulls more if the solution deeper into its structure. And then use he early release in the rinsing process to leech more of the broken down goop out if the wood sample. Finally, when you have obtained really clean decomposed wood, release the pressure with the wood in some sort of waterproof resin so you are able to bond all those fibers. Maybe with hide cement.
Just musings from an armchair couch scientist.
Do you reckon it needs to be in the oven during the compression process? I wonder how well it would work to put it at the bottom of a stack of cement bags in the garage for a week or two.
That's a very good question. I think you just have to try it and see. It's not clear from the paper if the oven was just for speeding the process or was necessary for adhesion.
@@dork3nergy My thought is that, if the heat was just to speed up the process, then cold-smashing it might yield even better results. I'm hoping to run some experiments on it, this summer. I'll be sure to come back here and share any results.
I wonder how you would even work with this stuff. Its hardness (at the full 80% densification) is probably comparable with that of my Skill saw's blade.
It is dense but not uncut-able. In the end, it's still wood.
Ok from a materials standpoint this is really exciting, it could be a game changer (unlike certain nutrient deficient diets), but the real question is, how does it handle oxygen+moisture? Does it rot?
Does not handle moisture well. It sucks it up like a sponge (Ok. A slow sponge) When it dries however, it goes back to it's original size and shape. Maybe just sealing it would prevent this.
@@dork3nergy that is why they make it moisture proof by soaking the dry densified wood in mineral oil. This stops moisture from getting in.
See my comment above.
Hello, a question. Is the solution of naso3 and naoh toxic when boiled?
I wouldn't drink either. NaSO3 is nothing to worry about. NaOH is a strong base so it's caustic. As you saw, it can dissolve aluminium which released H2 gas so there's that. Wear gloves.
@@dork3nergy Thanks!
I realize this is very old but we now live in a time of eternal permanence. You were measuring the thickness, but a better thing to do would be to measure the weight of the thing. Still, very impressive. But I'm curious about how to dispose of the waste water. Is this safe to pour down the toilet like you would with normal drain cleaner?
Weighing it would have been smart and yes, just dump it down the drain. No worries there.
To repeat the experiment in a pressure cooker would be difficult since they are generally made of steel or aluminum and the critical stages are caustic. I wonder if powdercoating a pressure cooker would solve the problem?
Good point. The instant pot has a stainless steel liner. That might be OK.
@@dork3nergy stainless steel is fine with NaOH. Aluminium on the other hand is easily destroyed.
As a woodworker, I can see a lot of applications for this. As a matter of fact...... 🤔
Me too
Where's the strength test?!!? wasn't that the whole point!?
Other than that, fantastic video, I would chip in to see more if you have a Patreon @DorkEnergy!
I'll have to think about how to perform some tests on this stuff. The original researchers did those tests using a bunch of sciency equipment I don't have.
I also have it in the back of my mind to do this on a larger piece of wood so, we may have not seen the last of this experiment.
Re : Patreon. Let's hope it doesn't come to that eh.
Could probably secure one end in a vice, measure a few inches out and add weights until it snaps (then compare the pre-treated and post-treated max torque before snapping, normalized to the post-shrinkage length). If it it ends up being anywhere near 11x stronger I'd be very impressed.
Also re: Patreon, not sure I understand... you don't want any kind of monetary gain from your channel at all? Or you only want income via CZcams ads and not Patreon?
- If you only want income via CZcams ads: consider that many users use strict ad-blocking (e.g. me) and prefer to support creators via things like Patreon instead.
- If you think you don't want income at all:
consider the potential budget you're missing out on to make your videos even better! imo this channel is tremendously high quality, and as you inevitably accumulate viewers over the next year or two, you might want to do bigger and bigger projects (that could be helped by some Patreon funding :D). Taking a $1/mo donation from a random stranger might seem weird in the beginning, you have to start somewhere!
@@dork3nergy It would have been interesting to test it non-scientifically ... just using hammer and nail, power drill and a hacksaw. (wood saw probably no longer optimal)
What could you do with this? I'm just thinking of practical applications. It's really cool!
Build stuff. It's still wood, but really hard. So build wood stuff thinner, or make a standard construction stronger. Maybe it responds to glues and finishes differently though
Nice experiment and you are pretty darn funny as well. I am very interested in this subject. Anyway to connect with you as I have a few questions for ya..??
I've pretty much laid out what I know in this video. There is much more detail in the paper I referenced. I can try to answer any questions you have here that way everyone benefits.
@@dork3nergy would you be able to do this to cardboard or OSB too?
The solution I used is designed to break down lignen in wood. Cardboard is really just paper and glue and paper has already been de-lignified. OSB is glue and wood chips. The highly basic solution in this video would degrade the glue and leave you with a porridge of wood schmoo.
YEA! strength test >:3
i try that process idol
Hi, really interesting video. I am a woodworker in the UK, I've got loads of different species including things like lignum vitae. I would love to experiment with this, the problem is I'm no chemist. I was in top set science at school and have a degree in product design though so I've got some idea. Is there anything you'd like me to test out in particular? I'd appreciate it if you could give me a simple DIY guide to doing this because I'm not able to extrapolate here. I have a variety of tools including big old clamps and am willing to buy a cheap 50 ton press. I also have a few ideas about heating during compression, I think a constant supply of steam to heat steel plates would work well and be practical for taking the experiment one step further. I'd make the results public, hopefully making it repeatable for most advanced diy'ers. I also have loads of veneers that would make up plys. I want to make a guitar fretboard from it and try making super-strong veneer laminated beams for the strongest possible strength:weight ratio. Cheers, Fabian
Hi Fabian. To do this yourself you'll need some sodium sulfite (Na2SO3). You can probably order some off ebay. To make the boiling solution, decide how much volume you want to make. For 1 liter, you'll need 100 grams of NaOH (lye) and 50g of Na2SO4. To make 4 L, just multiply by for, so, 400g NaOH and 200g Na2SO4.
After you've got your stock solution, boil, rinse and press your wood.
Here is the full method from the paper I referenced:
First, natural wood blocks (typical sample dimension: 120.0mm by 44.0mm by 44.0mm) were immersed in a boiling aqueous solution of mixed 2.5M NaOH and 0.4M Na2SO3 for 7h, followed by immersion in boiling deionized water several times to remove the chemicals. Next, the wood blocks were pressed at 100 °C under a pressure of about 5MPa for about 1 day to obtain the densified wood (115.6mm by 46.5mm by 9.5mm). By adjusting the boiling times, densified wood with different degrees of lignin removal can be obtained.
I'd be curious how using steam works for you if you end up doing this.
Cheers!
@@dork3nergy thanks, I will let you know how it goes. I'll go from the least dense; balsa wood, all the way through to densest; lignum vitae. Just got given a little steam cleaner by chance!
I wonder if it is possible to first give it the pressure and later heat it to 100 degrees. With houshold stuff I find it hard to have tha pressure applied and dry it at 100 degrees at the same time. Especially because I need some bigger wooden blocks, which brings me to more needed pressure, which can't be applied with the used clamps here. Any idea how to solve this?
I want to do this in a much bigger scale.
@@rg1996 possibly not do-able without a bit of investment. A pressure that high to do larger pieces would be a heavy duty and quite considerable steel structure minimum.
The best I can think of is to make up a heavy steel frame that clamps together with many thick high tensile nuts and bolts on all the sides, this would be best made from thick solid steel, maybe 1/2" steel plate.
The heat and pressure should go together, they probably tried many different variants of heat and pressure being scientific in approach so following their advice is probably going give optimal results.
Just be aware that if such huge forces quickly escape that you will not be able to limit the damage, it's potentially a really really dangerous thing to do.
@@fabianreeveswhymark3091 there is a more recent publication, where it reads like "press at room temperature with paper towels around the wooden block". Maybe they already found out, it can be done in series. That would make things much easier for me.
Can You send link download this paper for me! Please
It's in the description mate.
www.nature.com/articles/nature25476
Can I use any of them (Na2 So3) or (Na2 So4)
Na2SO3 has quite different properties to Na2SO4 in this process. Do not substitute!
I think your clamping pressures were way off. The article was in psi, the numbers cited for your clamps was in pounds.
The pounds of pressure delivered by the clamps was dispersed across the square inches of your wood area.
You are no doubt correct but you work with what you have. Turn out OK in the end I think.
Coolest. Fucking. Thing.
Now I'mma make a cool slingshot.
Thank you for disseminating this prescient information. Have a good one!
I agree. It's crazy cool stuff. Just a word of caution, it's not impervious to water and will swell a bit if it stays wet for a while. You'll want to seal the wood afterwards.
@@dork3nergy thank you for the heads up!
I watched another more recent video where they were delignifying wood and they used 30% by weight hydrogen peroxide and glacial acedic acid in deionized water which sounds a lot safer and less toxic to the environment. However the wood they were using was very thin. Could these other chemicals be used on thicker wood? Are they safer, less caustic? I love your video thank you.
I'm not so sure about that. According to this paper, "Acetic acid itself cannot dissolve lignin even at a concentrationas high as 80% at elevated temperature (in a boilingwater bath). In order to effectively dissolve significant amounts of lignin, nitric acid must also be added." ( link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1008297211954 )
In other papers where AA is used, it is combined with either formic acid or sodium chlorite so I'm not sure you're any better off solvent wise. Plus dilute acetic acid is fairly innocuous but glacial acetic acid with set your sinuses on fire. It's pretty nasty stuff, you'd likely want to do it in a fume hood.
This caustic solution is safer to work with, safer to dispose of and if treated correctly will be safer for the environment.
If you live somewhere that treats sewage to remediate its Biological Oxygen Demand, then this is basically the same as dilute drain cleaner. If your sewage is dumped into the ocean after treatment it will convert the remaining sodium hydroxide ions to salt. For small quantities which are properly treated this should produce no worse effects than typical sewage.
If you do not live somewhere with sewage treatment service you will need to react the liquid with an appropriate amount of HCl to convert it back to salt, large amounts of vinegar, or have a setup where you can bubble air through it for a few weeks (or months depending on temperature) to react the Sodium with CO2 in the air. The liquid obtained at that point should be added to a compost pile large enough to dilute the Sodium load to a concentration of less than 2% of the soil by mass, or whatever the typical salt content is in your area.
Caustic solution that splashes on to your skin will develop a soapy layer that slows its attack on your tissues, allowing more time to clean it off. H2O2 and pure acetic acid will more rapidly move into your skin and cause more extensive damage, and be harder to remove from your skin and be harder to neutralize.
Now im wondering if anyone make a wooden sword with this method
heey, just curious, what does the Na2SO3 do in this reaction?
It breaks down the hemi-cellulose and lignin in the wood.
@@dork3nergy via oxidation or...?
@@Holagrimola Lignin is insoluble in water. Sodium bisulfite sulfonates the lignin making it more soluble allowing the NaOH to do it's thing.
@@poison_lembas ohhh nice, thanks! :D
Did you notice a significant difference in weight?
Anecdotally, I would say no. I really should have weighed them before and after. Next time eh.
Did you use fresh or dry wood?
It was dry wood. The stuff you get from the hardware store.
Did you try anything with the wood afterwards?
I have not. The samples I ended up with were pretty small.
@@dork3nergy I was wondering if after the solution gets rid of most of the Lignin, something could then be used to replace it. For a while now, I've had this idea about hollowing out the plant cells in wood, and filling it with concrete, cement or plastic. If there were a way to insert wet concrete where there used to be Lignin, with the rest of the process being done in a similar fashion, you could theoretically end up with an even stronger 'block' than what you made here.
I've always had weird ideas of creating compound materials. Even if the internet told me that mixing molten steel and granite would lead to nothing, I still wanted to see someone try it just in case a stone-metal hybrid existed. I wish I could do this stuff myself, but unfortunately I can't get a hold of materials nor do I have any Education.
Polycarbonate plastic is also really strong, but in a different way from concrete or cement, and I thought that maybe it would be easier to fill the spaces usually filled by Lignin so this could be a possible route instead, but if impossible, that's fine too.
Also would be curious, that if the above did work, what it would be like to then burn the newly created material.
How toxic are the chemicals that are left behind?
Neither NaOH nor Sodium Sulfate would be considered very toxic. As for the byproducts of the reaction with compounds in the wood, I couldn't say.
Be sure to start with big sheets of wood, so you can mold it in a form that is artistic and unique. It will need to be waterproofed, (Thompson's water seal or the like) but then, if the terrorists come by, they can't shoot into your home. (except through windows, so get bulletproof glass.) Finally you can let your kids do a paint job on the design, whatever it may be, and have a home to be proud(?) of.
Pressure cook it with sodium silicate! Partially fossilized wood?
Hmm...interesting idea. I may try something along those lines.
Why using oxalic acid .
You can tell this video is 2 years old by the scientific journals comment
Or the date it was published ;)
@@dork3nergy I'm not sure but I hope you didn't miss the joke in there ;)
Is this guy related to AvE?
I want to make a longbow with this method…
It's compression strength is higher than that of horn from water buffalo, meaning a laminated bow with this stuff as a thin bach strip, senew as front, splitcane as filler for very fast filler laminates, a riser made from this hard stuff, a careful build, and you may hold one of the fastest longbows conceivable
btw, your solution contains dissolved aluminum now. is that a problem?
It does indeed. If it did interfere, I still ended up with a reasonable end product.
You don't have enough pressure!! That 2000 Psi is divided by 50 at least because you increase the surface like 50 times. It's 2000 Psi for the small head of the clamp. That's how pressure works. ....
Could be but I got decent result despite that so maybe 2000 psi is overkill.
@@dork3nergyto be fair, your excellent idea of using *multiple* C-clamps literally turned the screw press principle from a waste of time to something pretty effective.
or you used an already dense wood.
the chemical process in a vacuum.
Could I only use sodium hydroxide
I don't think so Mahmoud. The sodium sulfite is required to break down the lignen.
@@dork3nergy thanks
For future readers: it is possible to use only sodium hydroxide but it puts a limit on how thick of a piece you can work with. Tested on a piece of 2x4 (1.5” thick) the caustic solution only penetrates maybe 1/4 depth on each side of the piece of wood, and the core is untouched.
If you drive too much out you will get transparent wood.
Ah yes, but that's a whole nudder video. czcams.com/video/Af_cUFNnt0g/video.html
Great job duplicating the experiment with what you had available.
Test for strength, bend, twist
Burn it, cut it with a saw, nail it with a hammer and gun.
When they ask about the sodium hydroxide, do not say it's for your meth lab. Things will not go well for you. If there is a way to make sodium sulfite on the cheap, I wanna know.
Hehe...OK. I won't. You don't want to DIY that sodium sulfite. You'll need sulfur dioxide (gas) to do that and it's toxic if you breath it in. Sorry mate better off getting it on scamazon.
@@dork3nergy ok, well in that case I'm more interested in the military grade TNT made from the sodium sulfite.
@@thomasolson7447 can you please cut this crap?
@@inverse2k1 wow, that I the most commie thing anyone has ever said to me. Are you going to come to my house and shoot me now?