The Truth About Roles in FM
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- čas přidán 26. 05. 2020
- 'The Truth' is baaaaack. Football Manager players have two different positional decisions to make. Positions themselves and roles. The only problem is that sentence is wrong. Roles are not like positions at all, working as a group of player instructions your player is likely to succeed in. It has nothing to do with the magic FM20 hidden attribute versatility. There is no role familiarity at all, in fact.
It’s true, Football Manager is not perfect. This concept is explained very poorly by the UI in the game, but players are not ‘complete forwards’ by nature; they are just predisposed to play that way. If you feel like your mind is blown, good! That’s the first step to getting roles working in your favor and being able to properly weigh risk and reward, which is essentially the entirety of FM in microcosm. Wahoo!
Much love,
FM Senpai
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#FootballManager #Gaming #Hashtags - Hry
Man look at that champions league winner aura and glow
Zealand: "Role familiarity doesn't exists, it's just staff recomendation"
Me: *Re-enacts the ape learning to use tool in 2001*
At this point I don't know if miscommunicating the game's mechanics is a flaw with FM or actually its main feature.
Very interesting thought
I think there’s always been an element of not knowing what the hell’s going on to FM, right back to the Champ Man days. I still don’t know if I properly understand what the arrows used to do
@@michaelc.1710 it's a bit like real football in that sense, it's kind of ineffable
@@michaelc.1710 Oh my... The fricking arrows...
@@anon8510 You could put arrows on the player in the tactics. I don't know what they really did but my fullbacks always had them pointing inward because some OP tactic I had downloaded had them so I figured that was good. I think it's the equivalent of Undelap in the current game
I used to be so ocd like I wanted every one on full green and if it wasn’t I would literally buy a new player
Then after a couple months he'd lose a segment randomly making it just below the full green rating and you'd be pissed. It's like he plays that role and trains in it and it's his natural role why has he gotten worse at it?
It doesn't help that you can search specifically for those roles so it makes it seem like they are important
Wanna know how to achieve full green on players for position and role go check out fmscout on here look for a video called the most efficient training is not what you expect. In one season I turned Hakimi from Real Madrid into full green in both by just following instructions
@@around_of_apaws2381 Again, unless you as a person truly psychologically needs it to be a full circle; it doesn't matter.
It was hard for me to come to terms with but what helped was remembering:
"If I almost never listen to my staff about their reccomended best XI, formation mentalities etc, why should I care so much about a staffs suggested green circle".
@@gendicarla5429 HOLY FUCKING SHIT, I'm in shock. You've just crushed my understanding of the world 😂
I never knew the roles were staff recommendations but as long as the player was familiar in the actual position and have the essential attributes to play the role I've never really worried about the circle and I'm glad to see I am correct in going that way.
Same. Both my current CB's were originally natural CDM's and even though both are still that sort of dark orange for the BPD role the last 3 seasons both have put up 7.3-7.6 average ratings in all 3. I don't pay much attention to the role circle, so long as they're atleast accomplished in the position and have the stats and right player traits then they can play that role.
FM Base has the best Intros in the internet. Prove me wrong
reminds me of the brooklyn nine nine cold opens
sometimes it's even better than the whole video/episode
(which wasn't the case, great work as per, Zealand)
Loki Doki: exists
haha agreed
Lol that's offensive to a lot of very creative and talented content producers on the wide wide internet imo
@@sirprintalot I love Zealand but yeah u right
The reason to train a player in a limited role is if they have limited PA. You can make an excellent Limited Defender for a lower league team if they only have 90 PA, but if they were trained as a BPD they would be useless.
Similarly a 100 PA poacher might be useful, but an 100 PA Complete Forward would be pretty worthless.
what is PA?
@@dudee08 Potential Ability. How good a player gets. It's a hidden attribute, but you can get an idea of how high it is by checking the Potential star rating of a player.
@@astraliguana9485 thanks man
Zeiand about Stars: those mean nothing
Zeiand about roles: those mean nothing
me: okay i go back to F.A Premier League Football Manager 02
Haha but his name is Zealand. Its Zeaiand on twitch because theres some guy who hasnt streamed for years who is called Zealand and Twitch refuse to let him use that name.
Lol neither mean nothing, they just don't mean what some people think they mean.
@@Roscododger i notice it after and i recently discover his channel
Zealand: these little circle's over here, are actually staff recomemdation's.
Me: ... no ... no ... that's not true .... that's impossible! (luke skywalkwer for all the youngling's reading)
Thank's though bro i actually did'nt realise this, another great and helpfull video 🤙 p.s. glad the surgery went well and look forward to seeing you stream again soon 👍
Flashedback stress
So... My whole life was a lie.
finally, an explanation for why muller doesn’t have a full circle as a raumdeuter
I don't think this is an good explanation.
Müller is best when playing Raundeuter so your staff should acknowledge that lul
If the staff thinks otherwise I would question their quality haha
@@gandalfthegrey7135 football manager isn’t a perfect reflection of real life ability. muller just doesn’t have the perfect attributes profile to play in that role, the attributes he’s been given are better suited to other roles. also it was a joke
I think the balance between roles in a partnership are just as important as the roles themselves. Not sure what others think???
Always put DLP, mezalla and BBM together. Dream combo!!!!!!!!!
Fr,
@Brant Hall mind sharing their duties like support or attack etc?
i have a similar midfield with a Regista (S) Mezzala (A) and Carrillero (S)
@Brant Hall That´s a very similiar setup to what i use, here´s mine
IF (A) F9(S) IF(A)
Mez(S) Mez(S)
DLP(D)
FB(AUTO) BPD(D) BPD(D) FB(AUTO)
SK(A)
Lots of pressure, Fast transitions, invest in in good full backs and your nearly unstoppable.
@Brant Hall I've never had any luck with the regista - maybe the teams I play with are too small?? In my CZcams save, I'm plugging away with a 4-4-2 and it seems to work well with limited ability players.
Can I just say, when you said that roles are just a staff recommendation you actually blew my mind. I had no idea. But it makes so much sense now! Thank you!
so that’s why we get regens that don’t have a full circle in anything, cuz their attributes don’t suit any of the roles in that position
Or like the roles doesn't perfectly suit his set of attributes
The role circle is basically a statistical mean of the attributes considered useful for the role... it includes position familiarity and right/left foot ability as well
great content btw
Most unique presentantion of FM content/tutorials on CZcams! Big thumbs up mate!
Smashing that myth has completely changed how I view every one of my players
It all makes sense now. On FM19, I had a left footed striker who had better attributes than any of my left wingers despite my staff telling me he was not recommended for the role at all. He didn’t have a circle at all on the LW. Despite that, I played him there and he excelled there, got 15 assists in one season I had him playing there. Thank you Zealand for this video and keep up the good work with these FM videos👍👍
This video finally put into words how I've been treating my players/training/roles in tactics. I knew I was doing it different to most, but I couldn't work out why. This is a great "pulling back the curtain" video.
Damn man, how the hell did SI not explain this? There's no way you can look at the role system and think it actually works like this, you will think it's role familiarity. Been playing fm for years and didn't know this. Kudos.
This video finally put into words how I've been treating my players/training/roles in tactics. I knew I was doing it different to most, but I couldn't work out why. This is a great "pulling abck the curtain" video.
Great channel, I think I’ve watched every video at this stage! I’m currently playing a journeyman save and I’ve noticed every club I move to it’s quite easy to overachieve in the first season with some small changes but the board then expect the same and usually a bit more next season. Depending on transfer budgets and squad this might not be feasible! A video describing methods of mitigating this would be appreciated!
Thank you so much!
FM2020 is the first FM i play and theres so much to learn. Youre helping me a lot, keep up the good work :)
I can't believe you clickbaited us by having you with a beard in the thumbnail, this is not the content I came for. Unsubscribed
Agree, i am furious
not a fan anymore... KKKKkkk
Oh my god, whats next...? Dude's gonna tell us there is no Santa Claus?
Wait what
I think we need a video dedicated for playing 2 playmakers in a midfield 3
Something I've noticed when creating players using the create-a-club option: if you give a player 7 for every preferable attribute and 13 for every key attribute, that causes the role to be given a full green circle. If you give the player 16 for every key attribute, the role gets a full green circle even if every other attribute (including the preferable ones) is set to 1. At least, that was when using the attributes for box-to-box midfielder. If some roles have higher ability thresholds, the required values may differ.
wow few hours ago i was thinking to check if you have a video on roles or not, i opened youtube and the first thing i saw was this in my recommendation
thanks
cant believe i havant been subscribed, love the content man
All well explained and with examples, great vid! So basicly you can retrain a player to get familiar with another position. And then play him in any role you want and he will execute that playstyle no matter what color the role circle shows as long as he is familiar with the position. I think this video is also good to show the link of roles and instructions. People might indeed prefer to make their own 'roles' for their players with certain specific weaknesses or strenghts. That's the reason why FM keeps adding roles who are basicly just small variations on existing roles. Like Enganche for example to adapt to less mobile Ronaldinho's at the end of their carreer.
Best FM CZcams video ever, period!
I’ve been playing this game since Championship Manager 2 in 1996 and I’ve actually learnt something today. Thanks Zealand! 👍🏻
Played Nelson Agra at Varzim as Ball Winning central midfielder when his circle was red, easily my most important player. Changed straight to a full green in a few months
You mean you actually managed to use a ball-winning midfielder who didn't get sent off in the 8th minute of every game?
The best "mastering FM" channel out there.
This video blew my tiny little mind! Thank you
Great. Now I don’t have to worry about trying to find non-existing IWBs. Nice one!
so role is based on personal instructions and role recommendation is based on attributes. It would be cool if when you select a player instruction the game indicated the attributes it believes correlate with successfully executing that instruction, allowing you to experiment with getting the most out of a player's attributes.
the more specialized / limited roles like poacher ect are best used on players that arent particularly well rounded but either already have some strong key attributes or is a young player who probably isnt going to reach more then average potential , so its best to focus them on a few key attributes rather then have them spread their already limited potential on too many areas
This is a bit misleading. Since tactical familiarity is role specific, and there are at least marginal benefits to having max tactical familiarity. I would say that a player's role knowledge can be tangibly measured in addition to said knowledge's benefits.
Loki Doki would agree with this - usually getting world class wingers/attacking mids and playing them as wingbacks. :)
Good stuff.
Some questions and ideas for discussion, if I may:
(It will be long, sorry)
1. You have stated that the roles using a rather smaller set of attributes are not very good choices for training unless we want to specialize the player attribute-wise into a certain role like a Poacher. The same effect of improvement could be obtained by training him to an Adv.Forward which covers the attribute set used by Poacher and then some.
Is it true, though, that training a player on a wider array of attributes would share the "Remaining Ability" (Pot.Abl - Curr.Abl = Rem.Abl) among all those attributes, therefore having a less dramatic effect on each attribute?
Thus, would it make sense to training a 22 year old striker as a Poacher, when you know working on his very low work rate, passing or dribbling would not make much of a difference?
Does training mechanism work like that, sharing the "Remaining Ability" among the attributes you choose to train as a role and as individual focus?
2. You have mentioned that the role familiarity doesn't exist and I definitely agree with that. You have also mentioned that the player has to be familiar with the position.
I don't have enough tests about that but I have seen some literature some time ago (2-3 years?) that the position familiarity also does not matter. They simply encouraged to focus on attributes when deciding if a player can play a certain position and role combination.
Do you think that the players perform worse when played in a position they are not familiar with even though their attributes are totally suitable?
Do you think that it is the versatility that creates this effect?
A simple example could be a right winger playing a left winger (let's assume he is very strong in both feet).
Or a right back as a left back or as a right winger etc.
3. Finally... How much of an effect does the preference of side has on player performance? Is it also based on Versatility? (I mean the side preference of the player when playing in a certain positional strata. You know, when you hover on the positional icon it says "he prefers to play on the left-hand side in a two man setting" etc.)
Thanks and congrats on the CL win ;)
BONUS QUESTION:
So you have mentioned that the role familiarity thing is simpyl a staff recommendation.
Does that mean that depending on the quality of our staff (asst. man probably?) we would get a different set of recommendations for the same player?
I also believe that this role familiarity thing has a strong effect on player's perception about his preferred position/role. When we sign a player and he explicitly asks to be used in a certain position and role it is usually the one with the highest so called "familiarity".
Seriously, thank you - that all makes perfect sense now. Also makes sense why you can't (or can you?) change the roles in the tactics from reserve and youth teams - its not playing them out of "position" at all.
You can set you reserves and youth team to play a complete different formation from that of the first team
Great explanation! That is so counter-intuitive, using the coloured circles makes it seems that Role is the same as Position and can be developed (potentially). What were they thinking! This explains why Aleksei Miranchuk has been training at Advanced Playmaker (S) role at AMR for the whole season at Everton whilst not gaining any apparent familiarity. In fact, one of my coaches just informed me he's unproved at the Role, but the circle colour hadn't changed at all, which puzzled me. Thanks again, really helpful video.
You like completely changed me as a person... Like damn... Thanks for this revelation...
not gonna lie, this blew my mind. Well done! Further reinforcing your point - you can leave players from training any specific role and their attributes will increase from training if you use appropriate training schedules.
This has blown my mind because this is exactly how I assumed it worked. If I was a poacher IRL and wanted to retrain as a Target man. I would assume that involves some strength training etc. So then I am better suited to that role. In FM that equates to a greener circle. I'm confused now because I can't understand what everyone thought the green circles were. I must be missing something critical.
People think there is a role suitability stat like for positions, but it’s just how the game presents it to help new players to not play their 5ft4 brazilian as a target man or a semi pro striker as a trequartista or complete forward
@@jacobdaglish547 Ok I understand a little more now but what do people think would happen if they played a left winger with a right foot as an inverted winger so that their circle isn't green? Their attributes secretly go down?
This is where my confusion lays. I saw someone say it doesn't help that you can search for a player by role and I can understand how that confuses things but I guess you are right. It's probably just a feature added for newer players that people don't really give much thought to.
This makes a lot more sense now. I have a natural midfielder who legit is half circle in every role at midfield - which had baffled me. Excited to improve my team! Oh yeah!
Nooooooooo. I love your vids, I just got into FM this year, you’ve been super helpful. I got excited when I saw the VA outline shirt. But not a Hoo.........
Thanks Zealand. Good vid. Man why did you remove the beard I really liked your hairy aesthetic.
Zealand you can adjust the Player Instructions by hitting 'Edit Instructions' on the top right of the role selector (main tactics page)
Really interesting stuff! Can you comment on the staff roles please? Like can they do the job if they have the right attributes but red role recommendation? Or is it just their preference when signing on the job?
What I think would help for a lot of FM players would be that going from 100 percent familiar to the light green or even yellow ones was less harsh on the star rating as in some cases it doesn't make much sense.
No wonder I suck at this game. I'm always so proud to have all perfectly full green circles... Thanks for the video, it's gonna change my game!
Very Interesting video, I'm starting to really rate your stuff Zealand.
Quality video. Dfw you use carillero and Segundo volante tho. But I have some special players who can transition to those two from box to box and ball winning defender on a fly just fine.
You should do an explainer on the new marking system, maybe looking at how it interacts with player instructions and especially opposition instructions, since you mentioned that specifically marking individual opponents can conflict with the marking system. I've sunk over 400 hours into FM20 and don't really understand it, so I'm sure it's confusing for newer players too.
(This has been resolved in the replies)
Well this doesnt explain why, if a player has good attributes for Inverted Winger on the left but even though he has a full green circle for RW, his Inverted Winger is yellow. He clearly has attributes for Inverted Winger but not for the opposite side. Help!
(Works for full backs as well I guess. I have a 2 footed LB and I've been trying to train him as a RB. He has a full green circle for Wing Back (Support) on the left but its orange on the right even though his feet are both as good as each other. So it isnt because of a player's foot.)
When you say 2 footed, does that mean both feet has 20 attribute? Or left is 20 and right is 16?
It’s hard for defenders to switch sides
@@faizmukti117 Huh? Is there an attribute for both? But the left foot is Very Strong or whatever the highest is, bit the right is fairly strong. Basically the same
@@Roscododger
If he's better on one foot he'll likely be recommended as an inverted winger on one side and winger on the other as one will benefit more from cutting inside and other on staying out wide.
@@Roscododger there is. So if a right foot rating is 20 while left foot rating is 16,chances are he'll be winger on AMR, but Inside forward at AML.
If you load editor then you can experiment with that.
Also having higher attribute on both, increase a player's ability rating. So if there are two very identical players A and B. A only one foot strong while B is ambidextrous, B's rating will be much higher.
Edit: the number is hidden though, so all you can see is "weak" or "very strong"
Well, if you train a player to play as a (for example) Complete Forward, his training workload is distributed to a high number of attributes. That means that he improves his strenghts and weaknesses evenly, which is not desirable in some cases.
Let's say, if I have a striker that is a good creator, bad not a good finisher, it makes sense to train him as a poacher or AF to actually prepare him to play as a complete forward..
Or you could go all in on him as a F9, because the F9 role never get´s enough love.
This video legit helped me a lot 😅
The intros are great 😂
Dude this is a question I've always wanted answered thank you. Great content 👌. Do you have a video on traits but traits more role specific. So what you would reccomend for say wingbacks or DLP. Thanks again
Check out “so you striker can’t score...” I think that’s the type of video you’re looking for, but specially aimed at strikers.
I theorized this awhile ago. There was a tactic uploaded onto FM Scout for either 18 or 19 where the poster recommended training young players in expansive roles (e.g. CWB, RPM, CF) to broaden out their attributes, and the older they get shift their training to become more specialized & eventually niche (e.g. FB, Anchor Man, Poacher) when they reach 30+. That made perfect sense to me but only really works if role suitability is just a recommendation, not an accurate reflection of how the player will perform.
One thing I find deliberately misleading about the system is having to assign a role for a position the player has no knowledge of yet, that implies they're learning the role and the new position is a consequence as opposed to the other way round.
Man, I knew all of this stuff coming ing, that role circles were just recommendations, etc, but the tone of the video is making me feel like I didnt, and now I have no idea whats real
This was mindblowing. Like my reality has been shattered
Hey Zealand if possible i'd like you to tackle the topic of sending players out on loans actually helps them grow, because for me it never actually affects the growth of young players even if they always start for the team they're loan out to. Much love, I hope your surgery goes well :)
That's weird, mine grow like 80% of the time
I think it depends on the team you send them out to, and the quality of their training and their opposition as well.
You have to research the team your sending them too. They need good facilities and coaches and I only send goalies to teams I expect to be near the bottom. I remember reading years ago that the players rating fir the match is like experience points so the better he does the more hell improve not just game time. Ten 7 ratings is better then twenty 5's and so on. Could be wrong though.
Yeah, you need to make sure they're not only playing a lot but also that the loanee's team has decent training facilities and staff. Along with what kind of team it is. Look at their other players, the formations they often play, where in the league they're predicted to finish etc.
Like i send loanee strikers to maybe lower mid table sides, that way i can get a better judge of how good a goalscorer they are without top level service etc, goal keepers for struggling sides as they will face a lot of shots, and therefor show their quality more, along with obviously you don't want to send a player you want to play at CAM to a team that usually plays a 433 as he will either not play much or be played out of position, not really giving you proper information.
I'm usually ok if my players do play out of position, especially if I'm looking to develop a versatile player (usually to have on the bench)
quarantine got me watching zeiand everyday
My mind was sufficiently blown
12:15 you could switch roles on that screen if you wanted to, also when you're switching roles on the tactics screen you could also edit the instructions. Could have saved you a few clicks :P
I agree with Zeiand totally, the problem occurs is if you got OCD then you're going to want green circles across the pitch 😂
I wish I could like this video more than once!
By the way, a video about that strenghts/weaknesses on your tactics (green, red) and how they really affect cohesion on the pitch would be great. Because if I play a GREAT poacher in a formation with no central attacking midfielder, it won't be bright red. If I play a GREAT PLAYER that's not a great poacher, it'll turn bright red in the very second I make him do that. Why is it?
All this amazing knowledge, I learn something new every day yet you lose to Kev using standard instructions!
Wonder of the world this, I’ve never actually lost to him though. He just wins the tournament and I lose to someone else
THANK YOU!!!! I fucking needed this validation to my maddness!!! I always played thinking like what this video explained. But I always had doubts about the kids I was growing. (ps I always play at the Vanarama north while aiming for Prem). (yeah fuck no nonsense fullback)... Thats why my tactics and roles are usually based on the training that I want for my players and not vice versa... (cuz its all about getting the wide coverage of stats to grow). Though this also back fires a bit when the players dont have very high potential (so im sorry backup players). My play-style is usually geared to growing stars instead of buying them so if your that kind of player then this video is key! So now I'm hitting like and subscribing. lol
Target man was an interesting one to look at, because I’m of the understanding that is one of the roles that affects team instructions as well as player. It will mean wide players cross aim will be him, and the team passing also gets changed doesn’t it? Maybe I’m stuck in old fm😂
Awesome video as always! Say if I have a CB who is pretty well-rounded, but I specifically want him to improve his tackling / marking. My hypothesis is that, training him as a Ball-Playing CB may improve his tackling / marking / passing / vision, etc by a certain amount, while training him as a No-nonsense CB will improve less number of attributes (not passing or vision for example), but may yield better, more focused improvements on tackling / marking. So training this player as NCB might make more sense, even though I'm not actually looking for him to be less versatile. Is that hypothesis correct or should we always just set role training to the most well-rounded roles (Complete Forward, BBM, BPCB, etc)??
That makes sense to me. The roles seem to work similarly to the individual focus. Focusing on corners will highlight the corners attribute on the screen the same way NCB will highlight tackling, marking, etc.
No Nonsense Full Back can actually be a really useful thing to set as training for someone. You buy a full back who's in his early 20's. He has some potential left, but not a lot. He's great going forward but not really up to standard defensively. If you have him set to train Complete Wing Back you'll see a distribution of attribute points across the various things - and unless I'm mistaken increasing an already high attribute eats more potential - which means you're not likely to get him up to scratch in the defensive attributes. Setting him to no-nonsense, on the other hand, allows you to focus in on those attributes and hopefully develop him to an acceptable level.
It can also be handy to use that (and other limited roles like No Nonsense Centre Back, Poacher, etc.) when it comes to players in your youth team who don't have the potential to ever be good enough for your first team but who do well in what I consider to be the key attributes which are important to all players (stuff like determination, aggression, bravery, teamwork, workrate, natural fitness) or who are marked as being consistent and enjoying big matches. Players who have good ratings in those will perform to a higher standard than players without them, meaning you can develop a player to play a limited role very well and then toward the end of his development offer him out to clubs for nothing but with a percentage of profit from next sale. They go down to a lower division club, play well, get bought for some money at a future point, you take your cut. Alternatively you can train them in one of the more "all round" roles you mention and they'll end up not excelling in anything, meaning there's no role they can play particularly well and they'll end up being a player who likely never moves for money at all and probably ends up retiring young.
A third use - although one I'm a bit more dubious about the validity of - is that I *think* players who get old and start declining will retain attributes better that they focus on in training. Again I think this works on a cumulative basis so the distribution of attribute points "saved" applies across the trained attributes, in the same way as development applies across them when a player is younger. Might allow you to squeeze an extra season or two of (limited) utility out of a player as they come toward the end of their career although I tend to get rid of players before that point so my sample size for making this conclusion is a little too small for me to be at all certain.
Admittedly these are somewhat niche implementations and 9/10 your suggestion to train roles like Complete Wing Back and Box to Box Midfielder is correct, but I thought it worth mentioning.
the gameplay is scripted anyway so you just wasting your time caring about nonsense , this kid won the UCL with a team from Belarus, its designed so u eventually succeed
I feel so much better now for playing my striker as a complete forward because he clearly had good enough attributes to play it even thought the game was showing me that he's red playing that role. TAKE THAT, GAME, I OWNED YOU
Sometimes when players have weaknesses in specifically the areas of say a poacher but are a good striker in the other areas and most natural there it can be worth it to train poacher. Kind of works as a double specific player skill training. Josh Maja in Fm19 I am looking at you.
Agreed, training him as a poacher improves him in the most crucial skills for a striker in the game. If you train him as a complete forward, he'll become a better player, but not necessarily a better striker.
@@MrMrVictory Yup also depends how limited you think his PA is. If he will become an elite player sure complete forward all the way. If not might want to consider focusing on core skills.
Mind blown 💥🤯
This is... damn insightful. I assume it still holds true for FM22? Because for instance I'm playing at lower league where you'd think Target Man is going to be effective. But that actual role in FM's match engine (Or, as we learned here, simply the INSTRUCTIONS which that "Role" is given) just doesn't seem to work how you'd expect. They come short and are never the furthest forward to win long balls and play knock-downs to your striker. So it would seem better to play them on a different role and just give them Target Man-esque instructions like hold position, play simple passes, dribble less. The only way TM seems to be useful is being able to click a button to aim, for example goalkicks, to the Target Man, but I think you can also just set that up manually, so... Time to fiddle with my lower league tactics.
edit - oh, I should note I'm aware there are hidden things that complicate this. Like play makers getting focussed in build up, and target men getting targeted more in the final pass, etc. But I still think big men in lower league FM maybe shouldn't be given the Target Man role given what we've learned here. They are usually big lumps, and whilst yeah I want them winning headers and scoring from corners, I'd rather not have them always targeted when I have a striker whose better on the ground, and given that I don't like how the game positions them compared to Poacher, which is weird. Poacher's have more tactical rigidness that I want from a target man's positioning.
The video James allcott was waiting for
Pretty certain roles were added in FM to change to manual player instructions in earlier versions of fm like getting rid of the sliders for pressing and closing down etc. It's just a nicer overlay using roles but also gives less freedom to the gamer but it allows the match engine to be coded specifically for roles vs attributes. Just my ramblings
Excellent video as usual, just an easy question for you.
If I train a player as a CWB, CFW, B2B which trains more attributes, will they develop less, than if I train less attributes with another trainning like FB or AF? Kind of more focused training, develop attributes further?
Thanks in advance!
Yes, your player has two hidden stats called Current Ability and Potential Ability. When you train BBM for example, you will train lots of attributes that are useful fro midfielders and will increase your CA. Imagine a Wonderkid, 135 CA and 175 PA who will reach his potential since you are a good manager. If you train him BBM you will train 19 Attributes at the same time, resulting in most of them getting a +1 or +2 and a few core ones a +3.
Imagine you train that same guy to play DLP, which trains only 12 Attributes and very much focusses on core ones. This will result in him gaining a lot of +4 Attributes and a few +3 ones.
this is however very much an oversimplification, but I hope it still gets the point across. If you aren´t sure what to do with a player training them more well rounded is a good Idea, if you know exactly what you want to do with the player go and specialize him.
@@WizoIstGott that's perfect, thanks for the clarification.
Mind: blown
Idea for vid. It’s February. I’m overachieving in level 5 league and will be promoted. What preparations do you do for the next season, what do you consider and when do you start?
This does explain a lot of things. The young player will bunches of potential will gradually make progress toward that full green circle if you train them in their role. The 27 year old player will not. Also explains the constant quickness training complainers.
Can you do a video on position familiarity and training as well?
Hi Zealand, after seeing that video, a question comes to my mind... What is then the best role to train a L/R midfielder or L/R advanced midfielder to?
I’ve paused this video 30 secs in to comment about how exited I am to watch this video!! Very!! #zealandisgod
blew my mind around 3:00
Mind blown 🤯
The roles arent important but the the individual instructions. And the roles affect the individual instructions sooooo
Remind me to de guzman, the most versatile player back in fm 11/12
I made my own experiment back in the days i could not find a answer to which role is better than other
I created a Forward with every stat set to 20, height of 200cm, weight of 80kg and age 20. Then I played half a year to test it which role is better. Complete forward, target man etc etc... being honest i don't see much difference. My goal results after a half of year were +/- 8 at max.
Then i wanted to test liquidity of the formation - Yes i created a 11 perfect players 200cm, 80 kg, age 20, all attributes set to 20. Each one of them had one role, so right back was only right back and left winger were just left winger. Liquidity of formation set to Very high, played half a year. Then i Edited those players and set them to be like One man Army so now my Forward could be defender, midfielder, winger, libero and so on 10 players could swap their roles each time they want. Played another half a year, with the same setup and liquidity. I couldn't find any major difference between those two setups. goals were almost the same.
I learned one thing from this experiment - The game is broken and does not work as it tells, or I'm just stupid.
Played FM since 2005 and honestly never knew that roles were just staff recommendations 😭😂
Mind. Blown.
How much does positional familiarity affect match rating / performance? I quite often play my right wingers as red dot left wingers during injury crisis as they've got all the attributes.
Yeah and why can't my leftbacks all play rightback when they have the exact same attributes for both positions
Not alot, switching a winger to the opposite side usually is a tactical edge but also can be cruel because it depends on their foot. I usually play a RM on the LW with a right foot, he cuts in and shoots from afar ASWELL AS crossing at the byline or cutting in slightly to pass the ball and make that wide run. Much more effective in lower leagues than top leagues tho unless you have a class wide player or one that is brilliant in any position.
Hey Zealand I quite liked this video. However I do think there is one case for training a player as a “no nonesense” whatever limited role. It can be useful on a very low league saves and if the player you’re training has a low potential ceiling. Some of the players only have a ceiling of 90 CA. Then you don’t want to waste valuable attribute stats on training him to become subpar at everything. It’s better to make him a good no nonesense fullback who is really good at a few things.
wrap it up duuuude!
So for training should we just train players as CWB, BBM, Wingers, CB and CF? That way for every position the most important attributes are being trained
Sounds like it
I feel like that's not necessarily true. If their training at all those attributes, they are going to be focusing less on each one, so it probably isn't the best for some players who are going to be more specialized anyways.
I think a decent rule of thumb is: with players older than 22 who've finished developing. Do I know what role I want this player to be- if so train them that role.
For still developing prospects 18-22 who can still be rounded more then use the roles that rely on more technical attributes.
But even there if I have 19 who I see is a clear Inside Forward- then just train him to be an inside forward. Or a DLP- their physical are still going to improve (if they have the potential) whether you emphasize them or not.
Not necessarily. If you use static roles like Regista or Enganche there is no need to train your player in running about quicker. If you have small strikers and use low crosses (hello south america), why would you want to increase their game in the air? Sure you will have well rounded players, but every point they gain takes away from their PA. So if you focus on more specific roles you will end up with more specialized players, which sometimes is very beneficial.
I'd say no, while the description of a CF says it's basically a combination of other roles, CWB is an attacking wing-back only, so that player would start developing flair for example, although it does have defensive attribute too. If your tactic is priority over individual players, I think it's more of a buying/selling thing in that is it worth buying the wonderkid who's going to need big changes in their attributes to fit into the role you want to use them in.