A History of Fire Emblem Heroes' Refine Jail
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#FEH #FireEmblem #FireEmblemHeroes - Hry
Surtr, Reinhardt, ANY dancer: We would like a refine please.
IS: Sorry, can’t have you breaking the meta. No refine for you.
Edelgard: One alt with meta-breaking capabilities, please.
IS: Omg absolutely, bestie!
I hate how every Edelgard unit is always meta defining or huge in some way. Like why do they love her so much?
@@eliasgalindo5578 She's the new Lyn, aka baby's first female Lord, so she has to be super good due to being incredibly popular despite how underwhelming her and 3H are.
Oh hey just like Lyn and FE7.
@@eliasgalindo5578 To put it as neutrally and as non-instigating as possible: it’s less that IS likes her, and more that the fans like her, just because her character is a rebel opposing what she sees as the responsible oppressing force. That type of character drives people wild. So since there’s a huge demand for more of her, IS gives those fans what they want because they’re willing to spend on her.
And as an anti-Edelgard fan, it is my own personal hell.
@@TheChildofAuraReborn My thoughts exactly. I find her overall goal to be kind of a joke as well
@@EinSilverRoseI definitely wouldn't say that either her or 3H is underwhelming
The refine jail is so stupid too. Like how bad would a surtr or Ophelia refine be compared to some of the bs running around the current meta
It’s too late now, they don’t want to set a precedent of actually giving refine jail units decent modern Refines.
@@samkeiser9776 it doesn't even need to be a decent refines since the base weapons are so old that arcanes are better anyway probably.
It's just baffling that they're scared of refining base surtr but are happy to release shit like emblem Ike, valentine's lyon, mythic Loki, the Thracia character that steals bonuses and etc
To be fair, Surtr is a bit of a special case considering his weapon has that “if you exist within X spaces of him you take 20 damage at the start of his turn” thing. That’s still kinda broken. Depending on the terrain you can use him to take down Emblem Ike with only his weapon field effect (and someone else to do that 1 hp of damage left)
@@videogamefanaticlordkh7526 You mean Tina?
@@Teckbreak246 yeah I sometimes forget the name
Reinhardt not getting a refine is especially egregious. He basically became the mascot of the game for a period of time. IS knows this, they made alts, a resplendent, he’s a reward in Heroes Path, and recently an Arcane version. You cannot convince me that they decided to leave OG Reinhardt out in the cold because it gave all players a powerful unit at one point for free.
He’s literally the most popular NPC unit who got his rise to fame SPECIFICALLY from FEH. The fact that they gave us Arcane Reinhardt before even LOOKING at a refine is kinda ridiculous.
@@TheChildofAuraReborn I have been theorizing that they gave us Arcane Reinhardt in replacement of a refine of orginal Reinhardt. It seems ridiculous, but they gave Ophila an Arcane version and still no refine for her as well.
@@chibizilla5118 Honestly I never realized that until reading your comment just now, Ophelia was such a weird pick for the Fates banner but now it makes sense.
@@chibizilla5118So when are we getting a Surtr Rearmed with a burn damage Arcane.
@hanzou1238 Either when I die, significantly decreasing the fan base hatred for Surtr. Or in two years, they give him one anyway, and he gets the ability to set the whole map on fire.
Idc what bullshit excuse they have. If we are getting brave seliph and chrom refine this year, hector at least should get a refine, come on.
Fallen Edelgard getting into the refine jail would be so effing funny
I never realized base Ophelia never got a refine.
It's quite amusing, as an Ilyana fan, I've always been envious of Ophelia since AoE has always been the solution to almost everything, including Emblem Ike. I've always wished that Ilyana could get something even close to Ophelia's turn 1 AoE without requiring a slaying weapon, Marth emblem, Pulse C skill AND QP SS. Ophelia gets all of that just in her weapon. While Ilyana's refine might be at least 3 more months out, finding out that Ophelia might never get a refine does make me feel a little better about Ilyana's prospects. I just hope it's better than the Arcane tome.
Sadly I have since I have a +7 one
@@cosmicdunsparce _looks longingly at fallen Ursula's weapon_
"They're probably going to remain bad forever."
Me, whose Reindhart has never left the primary team, "I'll pretend I didnt hear that."
This shit makes me even more grateful for Arcane Weapons.
That might be the point
They created a problem, and provide the solution... for a price!
i never realised base armads didn't get its own refine lmao, also the phina incident is still insane to me
Im still seething over how they made a new weapon for Young Marth JUST to avoid giving something to Phina. I do like Young Marth, but still
Very possibly Fallen Edelgard and Dimitri will enter here too (I really feel that Dimitri does need an update but anyway, IS and his great idea for refining Brave chrom and not these heroes)
IS really is convinced F!Dimitri is on the same wave length as F!Edelgard. Even on release he was whatever. No reason to keep him from a refine
From i remember most units that dont get a refine are the ones that are either really busted on release and are not special type of hero and i doubt that is got a signs that F.dimitri was a problem unlike F.edelgard
Thing is though, Fomortiis is Literally Hegemon Husk Edelgard but without the player phase and with effects more suited in a NFU meta.
Like there are significantly stronger units in the game now than HH edelgard, and yeah she did dominate for a while, but now the game is in a place where individual effects are less important. So they could give her stuff without making her broken.
@@samkeiser9776 “Fomortiis is literally Hedgemon Husk Edelgard” I say this as respectfully as possible, but ABSOLUTELY NOT. No built-in healing, no stackable Galeforce, no extra movement. He’s tough, but he ain’t invincible. And he’s absolutely no where near as horrific or meta-breaking as F!Edel was.
@@TheChildofAuraReborn HH's built in healing came from a B slot Fomortiis doesn't have to run, HH's extra movement came from from an inheritable C slot, HH has a self-refresh in her weapon over Fomortiis, and thats the most significant thing she still has over him. he's is absolutely harder to kill in the current meta than she is. Defensively he is just better than her.
HH was a problem because she was incredible in enemy phase and player phase if HH couldn't attack 2-3 times with relative ease she wouldn't have been nearly as broken, she would have just been a really hard unit to kill, and not one that could sweep your army. Fomortiis wasn't a problem because he didn't have that player phase, he is still better than she is during enemy phase though. Besides fomortiis's action locking is way better than post combat healing, and Fomortiis can actually get post combat healing from an inheritable B slot that's better than Edelgard's Prf.
Like yeah HH was better during her Peak than Fomortiis was, my point is that her kit has been creept defensively, and offensively as well considering Winter Edelgard, who actually does have a pretty similar defensive profile to her, she's just missing HH's effects that can be nullified, like Follow up guarantees/denial, non-special DR%, and guard and special acceleration technically but Winter Edel doesn't need that, winter edel trades all those cancelable effects for better effects, and more stat swing, which just makes her survival better, especially when a lot of the effects HH had can be granted with support. and then Winter Edelgard just has offense that is plain and simple significantly better than HH's, even if Winter Edelgard is still pretty easy to kill.
Like yeah a modern equivalent of HH would be Emblem Ike with Winter Edelgard's player phase, but still IS could just put emphasis on one half of HH's kit, and buff it significantly, and then ignore the other half if they wanted to make her balanced or just to undertune her refine.
All the support we could have gotten from all the staff and dancer refines. So many miss opportunities.
They don’t want to give them combat refines, because they could get better At Galeforce, and because it’d make the dancers probably the strongest Gen 1 units in the game right now, and they don’t want to give them supportive effects because that makes them more competitive with the new dancers.
i remember the times when surtr and fallen edel were those terrifying forces I couldn't beat except with a few units, and now compared to the abominations we get I see how long i've played this game lol
This game is ran by hamsters on wheels because in what universe would these 5 units getting a refine be worse than stuff like Duo Lyon and Emblem Ike. Do they think they'll be bumped up to be meta again I don't understand why you would make broken units and cry about how you made something broken so you don't give them a refine i don't understand💀
Feels like a case of at first trying to just hold them back a little and then very soon forgetting about them for years on end
Can't have old busted units distract from the shiny new toys IS wants to sell to players, or something.
So...we agree to vote for Surtr and Ophelia as next contenders for #1 male/female CYL spot? 🗿
Oh yeah. They need to get something. Anything!
And here I am still waiting for refines of OG Azura, OG Olivia and flying Olivia....
Ignoring non-demote staff heroes might've had some excuse back then the powercreep was not ad bad as it currently is.
As is stands right now, the refine jail needs to be broken.
#FreeReinhardt
Edit: OG Kagero's weapon was nerfed too as they took away the effectiveness vs infantry afaik.
No OG Kagero was is PRF-less, she had an inheritable dagger that did effectiveness vs infantry.
Her that gave her a PRFrefine was good for the time though because she got 50% DR when attacking with it. Back when DR was unpiercable.
If they ever make a surter refine I'd hope he gets Divine vein flame in a pattern similar to brave corrin
Consider giving him the Christmas Edelgard treatment so he just dashes around the map and has Quadruple Arson
at the time the idea of dire thunder getting a refine was scary but nowadays is straight up stupid
not only have they given us refines with brave effects, the stats of the units that have the weapons are like 20 stats behind and dragon flowers/merges doesn't make a huge impact. Lastly there is so many tools that we have access to that can slap these weapons into the ground
Dire Thunder potentially getting more damage ?? spd dmg reduction b/c Reinhardt spd is low hell flat damage reduction shuts him down too
oh no Ophelia getting AoE ready that isn't going to mean much when she can't finish the job due to enemies being more bulky
Surtur taking off 20 hp isn't going to do anything when his weapon doesn't give him any boost in combat
Also Phina not getting young Marth's Brilliant Rapier refine. She could of gotten her own version called "Dancing Rapier" or Phina's Rapier that had the base armour and cav effectiveness but provided support like [Resonance Blades and Shields], [Dodge], [Desperation], extra stats, [Sabotage], stat debuffs etc. All these units are super outdated and should of at least gotten a refine.
Honestly, Dancers could just get a refine with a free buff Dance or Cantrip built into their weapon, like, yeah, it's nothy amazing, but it's a nice way to lean into the support aspect innate to dancers a bit and let some of them have a little more relevance with buff stacking. If suddenly a bunch of old dancers came out with refines and it was just a tier 4 buff dance or cantrip and one other proprty, I wouldn't be mad
@@baxterbruce9827 you're out of your mind. Dancers only get offensive refines because they're offensive units and aren't useful for anything else.
- IS logic refining L Azura and all the fairies
@baxterbruce9827 totally agree!
Do you think IS doesn't know what to do for refresher refines?
@@luthierisbestboy8177 I mean, up to this point they've mostly been given offensive refines despite the innate support role dancers fill with their ability to dance and their often low stats compared to other units of the same era and unit types
I wish they would bring back jointed weapons . Like how Sonia and meric can and Inherit each others refines because they have the same weapon .. same with eliwood and brave Roy .. and a good way to help old characters if a character gets an ult ex: emblem Ike got added , OG Ike should be able to learn the weapon as a way to buff him .
Why couldn't Ophelia's tome have the same effect like Owain's sword?
Another bad refine not mentioned is (I think) Male Morgan's Grima's Truth. He got debuff doubler, but the refine removed the smoke effect from his weapon 😭😭😭
OG hector - no refine for you, too strong
Hector with a lance: totally fine
-Laevatain- Laegjarn refine also nerf the weapon by capping the bonus stats she can get from it while unrefined is uncapped.
It's also so dumb that the Poison Dagger effect has essentially died. Like why didn't Kagero come back with a Infantry advantage??
It's strange to skip these units refines because everyone else can do almost the same thing now but these units are still punished.
especially right now i think we really could need an ophelia refine that is good. a blue aoe mage would be really good against the ike menace but i guess when she got it when she should had that would have fallen of by now
I appreciate Leos refine for being more in line with his Fates rendition, but boy did being a gen 1 mage cav make his balanced statline horrible, he jut isnt good at anything
Leo wasn't a good player phaser so the goal is just him to be a magic tank like Seliph and Sigurd. Fallen Takumi can still do splash damage so it could have been worse.
12:00 Male Corrin also falls in that category where his refine weapon is worse than his original weapon since the original gave him +4 speed if unit initiates combat and the refine gave him +2 speed and it was only useful to his pair S support who received +4 all stats
I'm gonna add Bridal Sanaki into your Negative Refine pool, it doesn't sound like much but losing Speed on a unit that is supposed to be trying to nuke is a penalty based on all the speed based DR.
The real reason they don’t refine these units now is probably because they don’t want to set a precedent.
They’re all old units, if they gave them refines that are on par with refines from their era what’d be the point? If they gave them relevant refines, why can’t [gen 1-2 unit who sucks] get one?
I think arcanes are really supposed to make up for the lack of strong inheritance weapons. I personally don’t think Refine Jail is going to happen to anyone else, because nowdays if they want to screw over a refine they just make it insignificant (or you’re Phina and they invented a new sword just to screw you over)
And then there’s heroes who are out in alt jail, or lack of alt jail. IS is a cruel mistress
If Surtr ever gets a refine, i certainly hope his unique C slot: Surtrs Menace gets a savior buff.
Please up load more videos likes these
I noticed that about Leo the other day and I was like, huh?
fallen edelgard is refine jail worthy, but it's IS favorite child so... that's the only thing that makes me doubt they'll jail her lol
As somebody who first five star exclusive +10 is surtr, it makes me very sad that he never got a refine.
do u think young lucius and cornelia will get refines in a few years when its finally their time? im curious since theyr ethe only demote prf healers. also its crazy to think units that literally came out in year 1 are still hard to get with only 4% rates on revive banners... lol
Me still waiting for OG Ninian to get her personal dragon breath and refine...
This guy never fought refined Leo in Binding Worlds without Null Follow-Up
Surtr is like my third favorite oc and i dont know why they just screwed him over atleast he has resplendent but its not enough for my boy hot man daddy king
That pirate alt was probably the most exciting Book OC alt we’ve ever gotten. So-taro’s art with the burning shark was fucking awesome.
We need more book villain OCs getting alts that aren’t the big-tiddy material. Hel, Surtr, Fafnir, Embla, etc.
Whats the Surtr art from? 👀
the crazy thing is, at the time these units were due for a refine, the refine effects were still simple enough that just giving them a simple refine such as deathblow 2 (on rein/olwen) steady stance 2 on surtr and swift sparrow 2 on ophelia would have given them their refines, but also had them still fall off very quickly again as more new units got released and IS wouldn't have had to keep them in refine jail (like what IS was doing with DC weapons back then), whereas if they get that sort of simple refine now, players would be like what the actual is this so it's too late to refine them now...
I was always on copium about refine jail because the only trend IS actually sticks to is that they break trends and maybe they will return to the oldies, but at this point we have a completely new reinhardt and his refine still wouldn't have saved his bad stats years ago. Surtr I gained new hope with melt damage since he's the only one I still felt had a really strong and unique effect that maybe IS didn't know how to refine but thats just more copium and they're probably never getting back to them.
In general I think they should double the amount of refines each month. It can't be that hard to slap existing effects on older weapons surely, but the rate they're going the brave units are skipping years ahead and legendary/mythics are gaining a lot of updates ahead too.
I think the real reason they didn't refine these units is because so many people +10ed them. God forbid they do something that doesn't make them money
Never understood the hector one as what made him good was his A skill. Distant Counter.
DC and CC were extremely broken back then, it was so broken that I felt it scarred IS for years. They were careful with DC/CC weapons and skills for a long time.
They avoided DC weapon refines for a long time until recently and even then the first ones like Ike and Ryoma were outclassed the moment it released. The upgraded version were just conditional DC or flat +6 to one stat. New units with DC had very simple side effects like just slaying like Say'ri when units like Fallen or Normal Mareeta existed in that time.
Nowadays IS is losing that fear as they released DC as a seal for dragons only and then any unit, also DC having Solo +5 to two stats or Bonus doubler.
I honestly find it really interesting how OP DC was and still is good nowadays. It's the only skill that still useable compared to the skills that released during that time and years ahead.
I just wanted a cool PRF weapon for Spring Camilla
Olivia is waiting...
Isn't Hector's due to a side grade and IS didn't think it was worth making a refine that would never be used (how many even use OG Durandal's refine or OG Falicion (awakening)
Though its funny how F!Dimitri is considered similar to F!Edelgard considering the gap in most situations. (Maybe optionally they may be equal)
I do wonder if F!Ike would get skipped, thougj he may get hit with the DC tax
*looks at Marisa*
Marisa had a really good refine. I used it on her until Arcane Devourer came out.
Explains why base Azura still doesn't have a prf. Still sucks, though. Also, I need Nergal to go on that "do not deploy" list. That dude, by himself, is wiping out my Tempest Trial teams. So far, my Legendary Lilina is the only one who can reliably take him out.
It's so frustrating being a fan of OG Olwen bc she's actively a better unit when she has a different weapon than Dire Thunder, but IS refuses to give her a unique prf. She is forever in her brother's shadow...
Atleast Hector has access to Berserk Armads
Iron weapon only challenge run, but have minus Luck
Reinhardt pls, fallen edelgard definitely will get a refine so he should get one too
effie's refine was so painfully disappointing after having to wait so long
Wrong hector in the gameplay footage
Legendary Female Corrin and Halloween Female Corrin Negating Fang. I dont have L! Corrin amd i got H!F! Corrin from recemt HOF. But no Negating Fang ll
but will f!Edelgard get a refine?
Probably.
And the worst part is... Rearmed Reinhardt and Ophelia *DON'T HAVE PRFS* I think all the others aside, there is no guarantee for those 2 to get Prfs from some kind of remix. I see it perfectly within the realm of possibilities they'd just skip over those two and act like we don't notice and that they don't know that we know they're ignoring us. Refine jail curse plaguing the same units. Gotta be why Soiree Reinhardt was given Dance skill too, just so no refine.
What confuses me is why seasonal prfless units don't get refines, while seasonal units with unique weapons get them. Was the point of refines not to buff weaker units and make them better? I suppose the issue was that it would've made for too many refines for them to process, and they wouldn't want, say, a seasonal demote competing with a seasonal 5* prf (although I don't see why why not, you'd think that would just mean more people pulling on banners?)
Now that Arcanes exist, it's basically a moot complaint, but when the game was still fresh, I was excited at the idea of Summer F!Robin or Summer Tiki getting unique prfs someday.
Apotheosis refine when
One of the characters that had a shitty refine for me was mythic sothis.
I still think they’re gonna skip Fallen Edelgard
Give OG armads a refine the heck IS?!
I think it’s funny that surtr became the first unit where the game was like “outside of arena, we made it that you won’t run into surtr at all” because of how tame he feels now. Nowadays everything that made Surtr good (spectrum menace, splash damage if you got too close, guard, wary fighter) sounds laughable against the meta and counters of today
effie's refiine is aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasss
Just give NY!Baejarn a refine plz
Leo's wasn't worse but was but it was weird
Personally, I hate that these units are in refine hell. I'm slightly worried about Duo Sigurd and because he is a dancer, maybe he can be the first to get a refine that isn't Legendary or Mythic. Let us hope. I love Duo Sigurd.
I feel he will get one since he is a unique unit type. I would assume that Duo and Harmonized dancers would get a refine since they are designed for specific game modes just like legendary and mythic heroes.
@@hanzou1238 thats true. So even though he is of that type, I am looking forward to his refine. Watch as this comment ages like fine spoiled milk.
Why do they refuse to give any of the staff demotes new weapons and refines is beyond me. I guess they ran out of ideas on how they can make each one of them unique?
Them skipping Ophelia for so long honestly is a slap in the face to people who invested so much time and/or money into her, same for all these characters. That’s why I never spend these days. It’s not worth with the constant skillcreep and power creep
How to not have surtr do anything to break the meta. Just make it so he gets +8 to all stats without changing the 20 dmg at the start of a turn at all. Unless you want to nerf it to like 15. And base azura and ninian need something too. Why use them when we just got handed a free A!peony?
My boy Surtr really needs something, at least the others here got interesting alts or rearmed, but even Pirate Surtr weapon is just a copy paste from another weapon but as a lance.
Please for the love of god IS, this has gotten so boring lmaooo
Imo Refine Jail is stupid
If being too broken/dancer is the problem, then they should have skipped Legendary Azura. But she got refined even though she was as just problematic and toxic, if not more so than the other units who got skipped for this reason, only because of her Legendary status. And she aged much better than the formerly broken units and it took her years to actually start falling off.
The other BS reasons why they won’t do refines (demoted staves, no prf seasonals) is just laziness and they don’t want to increase the amount of refines per month so they wouldnt end up further behind.
I’ll also add in that CYL units being able to skip the line is getting ridiculous in showcasing how slow they are. Right now the game is around mid 2020 for refining units and they’re going to refine CYL units that got released over two years later.
I wish you scripted this video.
Dont really care anymore. I quit ever since Hegemon Edelgarde.
Ophelia: Can I have a refine for my weapon with one effect?
IS: No, you're too OP!
B! Edelgard: Can I have a refine for my weapon with almost as many skills as your average Mythic Hero up to that point on their entire Kit (Plus an exclusive skill with even more effects)? [and similar for base and L! and eventually F!, S! and W! Edelgard]
IS: Sure, have every skill under the sun, what's the worst that can happen? In the worst case, we just spend months introducing counters, just like we do every time we release a new Edelgard!
And all just because guys on the internet think that strongly believing in the 'facts' fed to you by your abusers (and never confronting them, even doing their bidding and helping them at every turn) is the pinnacle of a strong female character.
this shit is why i dropped feh
imagine being a loyal player using their gacha system and they refuse to update old ass units just because they were too strong in the meta game at some point but continue to release broken character after broken character that both become nukes and also tank every damage possible? its borderline unfun. like theres no point in investing any character because you have them at +10 at that point without feeding them every expensive resource the game has to offer and giving them a million buffs.