can you see how season 8 would have been pretty good if you were a person arguing the "mad queen" theory since early seasons? the fact that i had been told i was wrong and crazy for my predictions about the end since season 2.....yeah it made season 8 better.
@@suzukisixk7nah bro the mad queen is a beautiful end I think George goes that way, but the lack of buildup just makes it nonsensical, insulting to her character, us and therefore the story.
I hated the GOT series finale too until I watched HOTD season 2. Now I can stomach rewatching the entire series. vfx were great in HOTD but half the stuff on it was all fillers and the storylines dont seem polished.
@@obrynthe writing and directorial decisions for HOTD season 2 were hot garbage! I’ve lost interest and will probably forget to watch season 3 when it comes out in 2039.
I understand, but I remember just too well the Season 1, Ned was the main character, no one else, and shockingly died in the episode 9 when everyone was thinking about how he is going to be safe... It wasn't Cersei or Robert or Tywin, which are known actors, but the actor Sean was this character of Lord of the Ring, bringing a lot of credibility to sell the Game of Thrones, with a picture of him sitting with his huge sword on a ''new'' throne made of swords, because everything was new back then. We had to learn familly names, which are quite commun for us now: Stark, Lannister, Baratheon, Greyjoy, Dethraki, and so on. Even with that being said, Tyrion character from Peter Dinklage was so ultimately good, clever, humouristic and convincing that he did goes in front of Jon and Danny in terms of ''main character''. Even more in Season 2, becoming the hand of the king in the absence of his father Tywin. Jon Snow became so popular only because of his character script, compare to Rob who died horribly, which is not related to how good or bad the actor was. In fact, in that period of time of season 1-2, I was more into Rob character for avenging his father, and not so much for a bastard going to the wall.
Arguably, Dany is the MC of the whole series. The fact hbo was pushing the Jon snow pov without giving him anything to do, beyond s6, that made any plot forward sense, shows how bad they didn't want a magical girl show. And that was a huge mistake.
@@yorgivon-schmourgeussborgi well, not really. The series is called a song of ice and fire. Dany represents the fire, Jon the ice. There were two big stories occuring there, both were handled horribly.
The Real Problem was making them the Main Characters in the First place. There are no "Main Characters" in the books. Just Point of view Characters. Of which there are many
their arcs were perfect. its how the glorified main characters get treated in GOT even by GRRM, its about deconstructing everyone's obsession and fascination with chosen ones and royalty. the writing of the dialogues and storyline was crap, but the major plot points are perfect.
I'm starting to think that Emilia Clarke IS the eyebrows. The rest of her body is just there to fool us into believing she's not a pair of sentient eyebrows
@@pbs1982 Not really, Draenerys was shaping up to be a villain from season 2 (or right from the get-go in the books..) they just forgot about it for the previous seasons and then realized "oh yeah we need to make her into a villain dont we? let's rush it in the last second"
How in the hell do you setup a story line between Jon Snow and the Night King for over 4 seasons and then just decide nothing will happen between the two of them. Instead lets have Arya, who has had no contact with or knows nothing about the Night King until the last few episodes of the entire series, kill him with some amazing acrobatic flying skills. This should be a class taught in writing schools around the world..."How to destroy a TV series in 3 easy steps."
Not only that how did they develop Arya for several season to do nothing with the growth of her character. They built up the night King for 7 seasons just to kill him in ONE episode😕
@@PTRAINBOY Yup, I was in complete shock with that whole scene, I was like, this doesn't make any sense. It's funny how they would show watch parties where everyone was cheering like madmen when it happened. Like it was the greatest twist ever, meanwhile is was a total disaster. There were so many plot points that were just so disappointing, like the scene with the Dothraki and Melisandre, she comes out and ignites all their swords on fire, and it was the epic scene, all to be snuffed in 2 seconds. Also, how we all were waiting for Cersei to finally get what was coming to her, only to die in her brothers arms. The whole last season was totally lazy writing and it showed how bad D&D were at writing original scripts since they didnt have anymore source material to get ideas from.
Arya was the only one to kill him. The Night King was in Bran's head - so he could see everything. Arya trained for years to become invisible. So, she would be the best person to kill him. But it would have to be invisible to everyone, especially Bran. I bet GRRM will do this in the books. But he will make it clever and sensible. Snow's story arc peaks with killing Dany. The Night King shouldn't be tied to him so much. His personal vendetta with the Night King was likely built up too much over the seasons. If anything, it should be used against him as his weakness is always his need to be the good guy/savior.
@@Hakeem.XThey could’ve had their sword fight, night king starts getting the best of Jon. Dany lands on Drogon and Jon retreats, Dany does her dracarys and night king smiles like a maniac cuz he just shitted on Jon, Dany and Drogon. Would’ve been way better than Jon being surrounded by 500 wights and magically not dying within 5 seconds.
Years of teasing it and nothing. Worst part is that they start setting it up in the episode where they square up but the wights attack. Ok ok, it'll come later in the episo.... nope he died lol
What's so awful about all of this is that it didn't need to be this way. There were plenty of people capable of doing the job, and two people squandered all of that work in a selfish career move that backfired HORRIFICALLY. And theyve essentially ruined the re-watchability of the first 5 seasons or so. I dont understand why tv writers would rather trash their own shows than let anyone else work on them? What the hell?
Yes! Fully agree.. If D&D had any shred of dignity and love for the show they could have easily sat down with HBO after S6 and said: "Look we have an opportunity with Star Wars we would like to go for it. We will hand over the reigns to the team to continue our work. We feel there are 2 more seasons left in the story and here are our ideas but check in with GRRM he may have a better idea on how to end the show. Thank you and Cheerio" DONE!
@@lylewilson6493 im pretty confident their contract wouldnt let them do that and they would probably be sued by HBO. id love if they did hand off the show to someone else tho
I feel so so bad. The show was everything to them. Kit has a family because of this show. And they really did put blood sweat and tears didn’t Emilia have some serious health issues during that time? Strokes or something like that.
Yes she had multiple aneurysms and brain surgerys throught the production of game of thrones...Dan and Dave started off great but got far too much attention and ego from said attention and than got just as tired of the same old thing as kit and were looking at really lucrative offers from other studios and were ready to sign those deals before the show plummeted any further than it had since season 5...im glad they put the Jon snow show to bed rather than drag up all the nonsense they would have had to retcon or come up with explanations for from the original show. I'm very cautiously optimistic for dunk and egg but planning on it sucking given the number of arya moments we are in store for from the boss girl hollywood of today
I felt horrible when I saw that clip of the actors reading the final script, possibly most of all for Conleth Hill. He was so disgusted, so disappointed...as were most of us.
If they redid the finale season, I can 100% guaranteed that the entire would would collectively ‘forget’ about the original final season, pretend it didn’t happen and forgive them all.
Honestly I'd be down for a time skip anywhere from the finale of S4 to S5. Make it 5 years like George originally planned to explain actors aging & just say the war continued in various places around Westeros inconclusively until that time. Things got steadily worse at the Wall etc. S6-8 all need wiping out & expanding.
Sameee. But idk if the actors and actresses are willing to reprise their roles tho. If they did remake the final season, we might get a few different actors playing beloved characters 😢
What's there to tell tho? There's many compelling stories to tell in asoiaf. Best case imo is getting an animated show that covers the actual story and pray that grrm gives them the rest of it either via books or outlining it
I died at that 😂, but yeah. If it just had to be “not Jon snow “ just to SuBVeRT ExPecTaTions” as D&D apparently liked so much to do, IMO the only workable 2nd option would have been Jaime , he could have died right there , completed redemption arc, but then later Arya grabs his face and kills Cersei herself - something like that the possibilities could be endless on how that could have been written better
As an Arya fan I was flabbergasted when she killed the NK I thought it would’ve been killed if she maybe tried to kill him but died in the process or she Killed Cersei as Jamie
If they redid the last season entirely, I'd argue that it would make GOT even more popular. But it's obvious that the actors don't want to be associated with the franchise anymore
Zack Snyder's cut anyone? Why not a new cut and rehire of shoots. I’m sure actors would unite on a good ending if the script is good and carries GRRM story post release of the Winds of Winter with a good momentum of book fans approval.
I truly think GoT would be as popular as it ever was, and now is the time to do before the actors continue to age, another 10 years and some will of aged to much
@@rainluna9765 different actors would be a disaster waiting to happen. Kit Harrington as John Snow is as iconic as Mark Hamil as Luke Skywalker for example..to do a proper reboot of GoT it will take more time..may be when the original actors are in their 70s or something..
@@markobolo4465😂😂 he’s never going to finish WoW he just came out and said he doesn’t even know when he’ll be done. AND there’s stills a dream of spring for the final book and who knows allow little he’s written of that. the “real” ending is never coming
@@markobolo4465 he will never do it, he simply doesnt care anymore. And he also said that he doesnt want another writer to finish the story after he is gone so we can forget a true ending for ASOIAF.
Kit said he was tired during the last season. Considering he checked into rehab after it ended, I wouldn't doubt his mind was processing a lot, including a sense of disappointment. We've all heard the jokes about how S8 watered Jon down to "I don't want it" and "she's my queen".
This is an odd statement from him given how long the gap was between s7 and s8. And denying it was his idea after GRRM went into detail about the team - weird. I always figured Harrington would always love Jon and relate to him in much the same way Jensen Ackles loves Dean Winchester so much. Perhaps Harrington was another victim of season 8. That all said, my opinion on the broad strokes of where everyone ended up were entirely likely for Winds, but the last two seasons were so rushed those realities were a shock to most. Dany was always a coin flip. Sansa could indeed succeed with the mental chess learned from Littlefinger. Bran's power could be dark or not. A scouring of Westeros or perhaps the north will be happening - George is too attached to Tolkien's approach in LOTR. But as George dabbled with more and more other projects I am increasingly pessimistic that Winds and Spring will ever be complete. I doubt there is anyone in the wings that could do justice to the unfinished works like Christopher Tolkien, Christopher Rice or Robert Jordan's successor.
I don't hear anyone else talking about this but it doesn't seem to occur to anyone that D&D probably bled those actor dry. Especially the lead actors. The way they exploited Emilia and just in the way they treated the cast overall throughout the series? I think the environment on that set wasn't always fun. Dare I say, was probably even toxic. The kooky fans don't usually take this sort of thing into account when it comes to these blockbuster shows. And but after watching the series during it's original run and seeing everything in the media about the series.This is my impression.
Dude, The derailment starts in season 6, but 8 is absolutely unforgivable not only did they screw up everything in terms of story, but they also dishonored key characters
I actually think more about her pretending to throw up when asked about the reaction to the script. Kit summing up the season in one word and Peter Dinklage looking like he was held at gunpoint while calling D&D the greatest writers in television were also great ones.
D&D either told cast the truth or they didn't. I'm hoping they did and this was just acting. George has full TV rights and creative control and has D&D on a NDA. George was always planning 1 book per season. And D&D easily made 1 full season every year until Season 6 which had caught up to book 6 of 7. Then George was saying he wanted to do 10-12 seasons but D&D only wanted to do 7 season ... for 7 books. In 2016 five years after publish book 5. Hmmmmm? And in 2024 George states he's 3/4 done with book 6 when back in 2016 Season 6 had caught up to book 6 with Dany easily able to take the Throne from Cersei ... Arya planning ot kill Cersei with her bare hands & Jaime's face ... Tyrion wondering why Dany's dragons did not kill him after SMELLING his blood .... and Bran heading to Winterfell to tell Jon (fire) & Sansa(ice) that they are Cousins and Jon's a Prince. Hmmmmmmm? D&D clearly are under an NDA but they still should have been able to tell the cast that they were deliberately making both seasons "bad" for a reason. Remember GRRM approve the Season 2 House of Undying visions where 1) Dany takes the throne in Winter then 2) Dany dies north of the wall. Season 7 was all about not fulfilling the prophesies of Season 2 in the most ridiculous & idiotic ways. The worst Season is 7 not 8. But deliberately so.
"A Targaryen has to be on the throne, or the realm will fall into chaos." This phrase captures the belief that the Targaryen family is essential to the stability and order of the realm, therefore, the night King is still out there!
The thing that ticked me off with ending was the response that the fans were critiquing the actors and crew for final season. The sole blame was on the show runners/writers. The rest just did as they were told so imo are blameless.
I used to think that, but if i would guess, 80% hated it, 20% liked it. Wild estimates, but if you look around online you could see plenty of people like it. While in my opinion it was garbage, good for them if they did like it
@@A7XKoRnRocks1 some people read books, often swore at the changes, but still loved the finale. s8 wasn't great but the final episode and the last 10 minutes of it- brilliant.
The person ultimately responsible for how GoT finished is George R.R. Martin. The screen writers created an ending based on what they had to work with....vague ideas. George profits from the shows, but gets a pass for the ending he has yet to write, and some 5 years later, possibly never will.
The creators had material that they did work with that they absolutely butchered. Ellaria Sand is the antithesis of vengeance in the books. She has a monologue talking about the futility of it. When Jaime releases Tyrion from King’s Landing he tells him the truth about his first wife and Tyrion vows to kill Jaime the next time he sees him. Sansa never goes to Winterfell and has never met Ramsey. Rob Stark married a completely different character in the book and she is still alive. It was 💯 the show runners fault. They messed up this story as early as season 2. Those are just a handful of examples of how the creators took the book material and absolutely butchered it. Characters are the same in name only from book to show. It’s embarrassing.
Nah fam, they changed the trajectory of the story from season 2 of the show. They couldn’t do what the books are going to do. Only season 1 was nearly identical. Once you read clash of kings then watch season 2. You know the show had no chance of being like the books.
@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116So you expect the showrunners to write themselves into the same corner as GRRM? When they also have to write a season every yesr, regardless of writer’s block?
Maybe the night king survived and transferred into something, maybe the babies. Jon has to then go find drogon, get help from Bran. They could make Bran actually useful. And have sansa die. Alot of great ideas they could go with.
@@AllanRinnegan Yeah, it still is crazy that Bran was like 15th in show time when they planned for him to take over the Iron Throne. Rule #1 - the protagonist gets the most screen time (or pretty close). Bran wasn't in the top 10 which is why when Tyrion makes his speech "who has the best story....Bran" - every person in every reaction video is shocked. Because the cardinal rule of tv is that the person with the most screentime is the protagonist. Hence why there were Tyrion, Jon, Dany and even Samwell Tarly fans who thought they should win the Game of Thrones. Because even Sam competed in screentime equally or better than Bran. Keep in mind there's a whole season without Bran. The winner of the "show" wasn't in one of its 8 seasons, and it was a 10 ep season he missed.
I 100% understand why kit wants to separate himself with the show, but let's be honest, nobody anywhere will ever see him as anyone other than jon Snow. It sucks for his career, but if he embraced it, it could possibly produce an unforgettable show.
Reminds me of Leonard Nimoy with Star Trek - first (somewhat angry) biography 'I am not Spock', followed by his more philosophical, later in life 'I am Spock'. I hope Kit finds that peace with it.
@@blinkusfishus2052 It did. Aegon Targeryon was foreshadowed since the beginning of the books when we are told about Robert vs Rhaegar and the kidnapping of Leahna . We then hear about Rhaegar's infidelity and how his other children turned out as well as his obsession at the end of his life with the prophecy. In a sense John does fulfill Rhaegar's phrophecy by bringing together the world against the Whitewalkers and then preserved peace by choosing to both kill the new tyrant and abdicate from his birthright, therefore sparing further bloodshed.
It hurts even more every time the "song of ice and fire" is mentioned in the house of the dragon dialogues. It pains, feels like they're pouring lemon juice on the wound every time they mention the prophecy.
@@redragon_istaken incredible cope. I said the reveal of Jon's parentage only serves one purpose, and it does nothing else. Jon already was a king, he already got Dany the 'tyrant' to fight the white walkers - he does all this as Jon Snow. Once he's told of his parentage it has no other impact on him but to destroy the alliance he has with Dany. bran does this deliberately imo.
@@blinkusfishus2052they wanted the story to be “unpredictable” but you can’t reveal that jon is the rightful heir to the throne and nothing even comes of it.
I wouldn't have even minded if Arya came in and killed the Night King, as long as there was an epic fight between Jon Snow and the Night King first. She could've saved the day and saved Jon Snow but how it played out was garbage.
GOT was amazing when it followed the books. Once it passed out the books, the writers had no ideas how to finish unless they ruined the last book that GRRM still hasn't finished
The actor who played Jamie really took the season 8 criticism to heart and lashed out against them, but i think it's valid. The actors and effects team, pretty much everyone except the writers worked their asses off and people despised it.
My "Snow" would open with the Gate at the Wall slamming shut and Jon waking up after months in a coma in White Harbor being cared for by the Maestor of House Manderly realizing what he saw was a vision of a possible future planted in his Mind by Bran to prepare him for the Long Night
Hmm that could save the show then we could finish the last 4 seasons, stretch them to 8 and do it right! WoW may be coming out by the end of this year or early next too so we'd have more good material to work with! I really loved the actors and want them to stay the same but hard to for the kid's roles depending on how far back you go to redo it.
It’s so clear that D&D hate Jon Snow. Just look at the difference at how they treated characters like Jon, Daenerys and Stannis compared to how they treated Tywin and Arya (or even Ramsay).
@@lethabomokoma2439nah Dany was always gonna burn down kings landing and Jon although he is a Targaryen was still more of a stark in everything but name.
Ok. Hear me out. Jon Snow is north of the wall and finds Bloodraven’s weirwood tree. Because Brandon was a green seer, he communicates to Jon via weirwood and discovers that Brandon isn’t the king of the six kingdoms; it’s Bloodraven using Brandon’s skin to rule. This doesn’t sit right with Jon so he tries to make things right. He discovers that Bloodraven was controlling Danaerys when she burned King’s Landing. This is why everyone acted so out of character in season 8.
We all already know the white wallers are a creation of the children of the forest. And originates from the same tree. Make the tree evil and we've got a show. Bring back the white wallers and the long night. Give jon white targaryen hair after his resurrection and a dragon.
I wish the Night King would’ve caught Arya, blocked her knife-drop move, then drove her own dagger through the bottom of her chin into her brain. Then he could’ve killed or possessed Bran (whatever his plan was) and Jon could have a.) lost his mind and killed the Night King in a good fight b.) realize that Bran was the Night King now and he was too late. Then Bran could raise Arya and Theon. Jon would’ve had an impossible choice to make then. Would’ve made the story so much better and they would’ve had more story for at least 2 or 3 more episodes. And of course, completely change the finale.
I believe that Jon is both ice and fire so I believe the Song of Ice and Fire is about Jon Snow. Jon was supposed to be the prince that was promised. I loved Dany, but Jon would have been a great King.
Jon was definitely on track to be King Beyond the Wall. My theory is that the end of GoT is only a cliffhanger. I guess give it another 20 years… My strong belief is that Jon is related to Mance and quite possible Bael. I think the purpose of Bael the Bard was not only to save the Stark bloodline but to also hint that Weir Tree have the ability to allow teleportation. That lays the ground work for something interesting. Of course Danny is not dead, just off to the shadowlands. And Theon is the new Night King. I laid out all of the foreshadowing to George in a long letter and he said he would not say I was completely right but it was an interesting theory.
Jon snow is the prince that was promised. And the King that never was. I somewhat like the idea that Jon kept to the "I don't want it". It show how traumatized Jon was from being in power. His brothers killed him... he was more then done with ruleling. It was just that it got repetitive how it had to be stated 10 times every episode in season 8. Jon is indeed of ice and fire. And that makes him for a great character. You'll need a little ice to cool down that fire. ^^ You really notice it on other Tagaryens. The are too passionate, too hot headed, or just downright edgy. Down the line Jon is Neds true eihr. All he had was the lie about Ned being his Father. The dragon grew up in a pack of wolves. Being taught he's a wolf. Ned must have been so relieved once it was clear that Jon would have dark hair.
@@twistedelegance_ she's the mother of dragons she birthed the dragons and the show is house of the "dragon" she's important but not the prince who was promised
A John Snow show would be a roll of the dice. Are the writers good? The directors? Just because it's got a great character, a great actor, wouldn't guarantee a good show, especially when it would have almost nothing to do with George RR Martin's genius other than it is based on his characters (think Rings of Power). Heck, even House of the Dragon is unraveling quality wise and Martin at least supplies some good plot points for that show.
I feel so bad for Kit. He was so depressed after GOT that he became an alcoholic and would get drunk all the time to cope. He still seems to be traumatized
I don’t think there has been a greater screw job for fans than Jon Snow and the finale season of game of thrones. The interview sounds like rubbish that he was told to say. We all deserve an ending where Jon wins or goes full on Targaryen and wastes everyone and thing! This passive avoidance and meek ending is annoying 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I'm glad he's finally admitted to the fact that mistakes were made. We're now one step closer to getting his FULL truth. It may take another five years, though. He still works on a HBO show for now...
@TalkingThrones I agree. Kit currently appears on the HBO series "Industry" and won't bite the hand that feeds him. I personally was lukewarm about Kit recurring his role as Jon Snow. The character deserved a better ending but to quote Lady Olena, "Once the cow's been milked there's no squirting the cream back up her udders" 😂 A series about Jon Snow wouldn't right the wrong of GOT season 8.
@@LadySophiaVelaryon it would not right the wrong but it would at least give some closure. There’s no unscrewing that season unless it was all a dream in a very marvel Deadpool variant way lol
Nope, I have tried countless times to rewatch the series but every time I get a few episodes in, I remember the series finale and I immediately don’t want to continue. The series finale tainted the whole show.
The series finale never happened. Do remember from Season 6 onwards was almost purely D&D since the show caught up to the books at that point. So to me, the show ends at Season 5
Despite the ending i grew to live in peace with the series. It still has some of the best medieval fantasy stories despite that and beautiful sets and action scenes, the actors also do an extremely good job with what they were given which makes me accept it much better after a rewatch. This show will probably be the only piece of media of and Ending to GoT since GRRM isn't in the best health condition and pretty old to finish this series, it's been literal more than 10+ years since the last book, the man is done with it
A lack of a 10 ep season has hurt so many shows. The boys, the umbrella academy, HODT S2, its really wild. I dont think it woulda helped got s8 but there def is a connection between shorter seasons and reduction in quality and storytelling.
What was the point of Bran becoming the 3 Eyed Raven? He wasnt a threat to the NK. Supposedly he could stop Night King, but he didnt do anything, he was just bait and we didnt even get a good reason why NK wants to kill him, cause its certainly not Bran being a danger to the NK.
@@OrlandoShroom But what story is left? The show ended, his charachter arc was destroyed. They should go back in Time or or make stories that do not need to stand on the GoT's back.
And I was so disgusted that he knew everything that was going to happen and sat on his arse and allowed it to happen just to sit on that diseased seat? Then What? See that where we need a new show. . .Danerys comes back because she was only Mostly dead. She hatch’s some more dragons and gets her revenge on Everyone. I’d watch it. She doesn’t even have to be alive. She can be dead like the Night King and Jon, with undead dragons.
Yep. So much for Aegon's prophecy that a Targaryen sitting on the iron throne after that white walkers 😅😂😂😂 they can come back with Bran is the new Night King, Dany comes back to life, another war and Dany sits and Jon king of the north
To be frank that’s not bran that’s bloodraven, he has been behind the scenes pulling all the strings. I’m hoping with the dunk and egg series people will learn more about him and understand how “evil bran” makes a lot of sense. Bloodraven was a monster and would do whatever it took to make his desires a reality and it could easily be a plot line.
Dan and Dave are really good at adapting existing content, no good at finishing such complexity without source material. George really should have finished that last book while the show was progressing.
You have to understand that George is super busy yeah, not writing the rest of the books mind you, but writing crap for the other GOT spin off shows coming on HBO. I don't think he will ever finish the saga.
The show was on top of the world for years, even people who never watched it or read any of the books like myself knew about it, yet after the ending all of it vanished like it never existed. That's how bad the ending was.
Sounds like it was a mixture of things that led to the hurried ending. Exhausted actors, directors/showrunners wanting to move onto something new and absolutely no source material to pull from. Let's never underplay the part that George played in the show going out with a whimper. I still loved the show and always kind of factored in that defeating the Night King would likely mean an end to the White Walkers (certainly in immediate vicinity) although obviously it should have been Jon Snow that did the killing and it should have been given it's own epic episode to play out. Interesting that Kit is basically washing his hands of anything to do with his character now to avoid being typecast so I don't ever see a Jon Snow spinoff. HBO have not exactly came out of this in a good light either.
But even close. Season 5-8 were just action set pieces and fan service. It totally lacked all the political drama and intrigue of the first 4 seasons and just became an extended Marvel film.
@@MrMortadella1 the political drama was ending players were reduced because the big threat was coming "winter is coming" and bloddy ended in one night after breaking the wall atleast a season for something like a long night humanity on the brink of extinction
Evil bran stark who orchestrated everything from the original series would be the only thing that might help repair the damage of the last season. It would be epic to watch too
So many were mad it wasn't Jon but he can't be the hero in every single thing through the end of the show. He brought everyone together to save the world from ice but Arya getting blind faceless man training wasn't just so she could kill random wights or Cersei.
I agree. I rewatched the entire series with my parents and was a firm hater of the later seasons. But expectation mixed with a more flowing narrative without the year wait for new seasons and speculation made a much better time to me, i actually accepted everything and even like it now T_______T
The issue is that show Jon Snow is a watered down, less proactive, less ambitious, version of the character, and the status quo of westeros is totally different from pre season 8. You'd essentially be starting from scratch, and GRRM should just sit down and finish winds already.
You are the best Westerosi commentator on CZcams. Always backed up with facts, much better than some others I won’t mention. Weird how KHbin one breath said he didn’t want to back to Westeros and then was talking about his JS series. I really hope HBO do HotD justice in season 3 it’s building up to a crescendo and don’t want it to fizzle out
We didn't need 2 more seasons. Just good 8th season. And I dont really understand how can you be "tired" of a role in one of the biggest and most popular universes in history, playing fans favourite character.
It's a shame that Game of Thrones is the End of the entire story.... So every show they make beyond that will always have the same conclusion regardless of what happens, we already know the outcome.
HBO has good writers and actors on House of the Dragon that are not burned out on the franchise. They should give them what they need and let them do it justice. It would ease the pain of GoT a little bit. I don't understand cutting costs that would undercut a good product. This is what happens when the bottom line is the only important thing. The merger is a disaster and another great example of a monopoly being bad.
They could also explore the theory of Bran being the Night King, that Bran being chosen to lead Westeros was his plan all along, making the survivors think that the White Walker threat has been stopped
There is a theory that the Stark children are from Aemond one eye's line, his supposed child with Alys Rivers from the books, she was apparently pregnant when he died and in charge of Harrenhal for a long time then House Whent came to be the holders of Harrenhal, Catelyn Tully's mother is a Whent. If the theory is true, The night king was killed by a descendant of Aegon the Conqueror. I feel like they just had runner ups if one failed there would be another Aegon bloodline member to do the job. Since Jon, Gendry, Daenerys, Arya, Sansa, Bran, and Brienne of Tarth all are descendant of Aegon the Conqueror since they all have Targaryen blood (mind you the Stark girls and Bran are only a theory but it seems like timelines match up??? so...) Baratheon's are a bastard Targaryen line but also have Targaryen woman married into the line throughout the years and Robert Baratheon's grandma was a Targaryen. Brienne's father's mother or grandmother is a Targaryen. so there are three absolute "prince that was promise" bloodline to fulfill the prophecy, and the three secret "prince that was promise" bloodline to fulfill the prophecy. Funny how they almost mirror each other both Sansa and Daenerys can't fight physically both Arya and Brienne know how to sword fight but Jon, Gendry and Bran don't at all mirror each other, unless you count them as sharing the saying of, "Cripples, Bastards, and Broken Things" since they are all treated the same by society, outcasts that are looked down upon. Jon/Gendry/Bran is "Aegon" Arya/Brienne is "Visaenya" while Sansa/Daenerys is "Rhaenys"
I didn't like how, they built up Jon Snow from the beginning only, for him not to be the one, to Kill the night king then, eventually be the King just to end up back in the north. I also thought,the two Queens would've had a fight to the death.
Arya could have disguised herself to become Jaime, since she could inexplicably change her height, shoulder width, etc just by putting a mask on, then made love to Cersei, and afterwards ripped the mask off and yelled "Fooled Ya!" That would've been great.
i will die with this pain. as a indian 3 most painful events of my life till date: 1. GOT, final episodes 2. 19th Nov 3. Vinesh Phogat disqualification.
I’m thinking maybe they could not agree on creative control. I believe after the mess with the ending of GOT. Kit and his team may have wanted to have more say in the story and perhaps that was not something HBO or some ome behind the scenes could or would agree to . They could’ve consentrated on other parts for a bit and answered some questions and give some of the main cast a break to help fatigue and burn out . We all need a break now and then . HBO couldve added more writers too . I just dont understand walking away from something that was so well received. But then i didn’t live it , they did . I hope one day see JON, ARYA,BRAN , and SANSA . In something new with some answers to what was and a new twist . 🤞🤞🤞🤞
We would have given HBO and the actors all the time in the world to give the series a sendoff worthy of their hard work and tbe fans' devotion for a decade
How did she survive in season 6 after getting gutted and thrown into dirty water. Then was able to run through the city, even sliding on her stomach down stairs. Lol
I respect Harrington and co. very much for passing something up if they thought it wasn't a workable idea. It also makes sense imo that he would want to branch out after so much work on GoT. He's already done a lot of excellent projects and I wish him the best. All the best to ya
No. Make snow now. I am 61 years old. I don't have 10 years. Jon is a targaryen. Have him accept it and create circumstances that force him back to kingslanding and eventually and reluctantly becoming king and restarting the targaryen bloodline
Of all the GOT based series in development, Snow sounded the most interesting to me. It was also a great opportunity to readdress the ending of the original series and fix some of the mistakes. The plot could be simple premise. The White Walker Arya killed may have created that entire army of the dead, but he wasn't the Night King. Everyone just assumed he was. The real Night King is still out there.
At the very least, the original author give an episode-by-episode breakdown, showing why more episodes and seasons are required. Then D&D would need to counter that, and 'prove' on paper that they could do it quicker (which they wouldn't be able to, of course).
Season 8 wasn't divisive, it was universally disliked
can you see how season 8 would have been pretty good if you were a person arguing the "mad queen" theory since early seasons? the fact that i had been told i was wrong and crazy for my predictions about the end since season 2.....yeah it made season 8 better.
Never heard or seen anyone say that the s8 was anything better than bad 😅
@@pwk50 I believe the term is "dumpster fire".
@@pwk50 I know people who said they were ok with how it ended, one guy even defended it.
@@suzukisixk7nah bro the mad queen is a beautiful end I think George goes that way, but the lack of buildup just makes it nonsensical, insulting to her character, us and therefore the story.
I'd rather have seen Jon snow and the night king splitting a plate of wings at a Flea Bottom Hooters than the bullshit ending they gave us.
This response is iconic 😂
😂😂😂 I'm dead.
sounds like a good Saturday Night Live sketch 😆
😂😂😂
😂
My hatred for the series finale is just as strong as my love of the clip with Emilia and her answer to the question.
My queen...sorry muh queen.
I hated the GOT series finale too until I watched HOTD season 2. Now I can stomach rewatching the entire series. vfx were great in HOTD but half the stuff on it was all fillers and the storylines dont seem polished.
@@obrynthe writing and directorial decisions for HOTD season 2 were hot garbage! I’ve lost interest and will probably forget to watch season 3 when it comes out in 2039.
amen
Same. I hated it even more than the Dexter finale.
It’s crazy that Jon and Danny (THE MAIN CHARACTERS) both had their arcs handled so badly.
I understand, but I remember just too well the Season 1, Ned was the main character, no one else, and shockingly died in the episode 9 when everyone was thinking about how he is going to be safe...
It wasn't Cersei or Robert or Tywin, which are known actors, but the actor Sean was this character of Lord of the Ring, bringing a lot of credibility to sell the Game of Thrones, with a picture of him sitting with his huge sword on a ''new'' throne made of swords, because everything was new back then. We had to learn familly names, which are quite commun for us now: Stark, Lannister, Baratheon, Greyjoy, Dethraki, and so on.
Even with that being said, Tyrion character from Peter Dinklage was so ultimately good, clever, humouristic and convincing that he did goes in front of Jon and Danny in terms of ''main character''. Even more in Season 2, becoming the hand of the king in the absence of his father Tywin.
Jon Snow became so popular only because of his character script, compare to Rob who died horribly, which is not related to how good or bad the actor was. In fact, in that period of time of season 1-2, I was more into Rob character for avenging his father, and not so much for a bastard going to the wall.
Arguably, Dany is the MC of the whole series. The fact hbo was pushing the Jon snow pov without giving him anything to do, beyond s6, that made any plot forward sense, shows how bad they didn't want a magical girl show. And that was a huge mistake.
@@yorgivon-schmourgeussborgi well, not really. The series is called a song of ice and fire. Dany represents the fire, Jon the ice. There were two big stories occuring there, both were handled horribly.
The Real Problem was making them the Main Characters in the First place.
There are no "Main Characters" in the books.
Just Point of view Characters. Of which there are many
their arcs were perfect. its how the glorified main characters get treated in GOT even by GRRM, its about deconstructing everyone's obsession and fascination with chosen ones and royalty. the writing of the dialogues and storyline was crap, but the major plot points are perfect.
No matter how hard Emila tried to lie her Eyebrow was like "nah we not good on that..."
Her character was the most cruely assassinated by the writing.
@@pbs1982💯
I'm starting to think that Emilia Clarke IS the eyebrows. The rest of her body is just there to fool us into believing she's not a pair of sentient eyebrows
@@spacecowboy5486She is an icon, she is the moment, she IS the EYEBROWS 😂
@@pbs1982 Not really, Draenerys was shaping up to be a villain from season 2 (or right from the get-go in the books..) they just forgot about it for the previous seasons and then realized "oh yeah we need to make her into a villain dont we? let's rush it in the last second"
How in the hell do you setup a story line between Jon Snow and the Night King for over 4 seasons and then just decide nothing will happen between the two of them. Instead lets have Arya, who has had no contact with or knows nothing about the Night King until the last few episodes of the entire series, kill him with some amazing acrobatic flying skills. This should be a class taught in writing schools around the world..."How to destroy a TV series in 3 easy steps."
Virtue signalling. I hate using the word "woke" but that is what is was . We'll make a masc girl the hero so we look cool . 🙄
Not only that how did they develop Arya for several season to do nothing with the growth of her character. They built up the night King for 7 seasons just to kill him in ONE episode😕
@@PTRAINBOY Yup, I was in complete shock with that whole scene, I was like, this doesn't make any sense. It's funny how they would show watch parties where everyone was cheering like madmen when it happened. Like it was the greatest twist ever, meanwhile is was a total disaster. There were so many plot points that were just so disappointing, like the scene with the Dothraki and Melisandre, she comes out and ignites all their swords on fire, and it was the epic scene, all to be snuffed in 2 seconds. Also, how we all were waiting for Cersei to finally get what was coming to her, only to die in her brothers arms. The whole last season was totally lazy writing and it showed how bad D&D were at writing original scripts since they didnt have anymore source material to get ideas from.
Arya was the only one to kill him. The Night King was in Bran's head - so he could see everything. Arya trained for years to become invisible. So, she would be the best person to kill him. But it would have to be invisible to everyone, especially Bran. I bet GRRM will do this in the books. But he will make it clever and sensible.
Snow's story arc peaks with killing Dany. The Night King shouldn't be tied to him so much. His personal vendetta with the Night King was likely built up too much over the seasons. If anything, it should be used against him as his weakness is always his need to be the good guy/savior.
It has to do with the gods that lead each one of these characters down their path.
We deserved a Jon Snow vs Night King sword fight
Mostly likely Jon would've lost. So they decided to let a little girl sneak kill the main villain😂
Thats like Aragorn fighting sauron
@@Hakeem.XThey could’ve had their sword fight, night king starts getting the best of Jon. Dany lands on Drogon and Jon retreats, Dany does her dracarys and night king smiles like a maniac cuz he just shitted on Jon, Dany and Drogon. Would’ve been way better than Jon being surrounded by 500 wights and magically not dying within 5 seconds.
Years of teasing it and nothing. Worst part is that they start setting it up in the episode where they square up but the wights attack. Ok ok, it'll come later in the episo.... nope he died lol
@@Zack.G23 but then Arya would've still killed the night king and we'd get pretty much the same sh!tty ending 🤣
What's so awful about all of this is that it didn't need to be this way. There were plenty of people capable of doing the job, and two people squandered all of that work in a selfish career move that backfired HORRIFICALLY. And theyve essentially ruined the re-watchability of the first 5 seasons or so.
I dont understand why tv writers would rather trash their own shows than let anyone else work on them? What the hell?
Yes! Fully agree.. If D&D had any shred of dignity and love for the show they could have easily sat down with HBO after S6 and said:
"Look we have an opportunity with Star Wars we would like to go for it. We will hand over the reigns to the team to continue our work. We feel there are 2 more seasons left in the story and here are our ideas but check in with GRRM he may have a better idea on how to end the show. Thank you and Cheerio"
DONE!
Agree I have wanted to rewatch with friends that never saw it but hard to get into it again knowing the end falls flat.
@@Mdl384 I can't even bring myself to watch season one.
@@lylewilson6493 im pretty confident their contract wouldnt let them do that and they would probably be sued by HBO. id love if they did hand off the show to someone else tho
I honestly feel so bad for not only him but for everyone who put their blood, sweat and tears for the projects
I feel so so bad. The show was everything to them. Kit has a family because of this show. And they really did put blood sweat and tears didn’t Emilia have some serious health issues during that time? Strokes or something like that.
The actors spent up to a decade on the show, when it concluded (or their characters died) some actors had spent their entire adult life on it.
Theres a lot more blood, sweat and tears than people think, Emilia Clark almost died twice on set throughout production of the franchise
Yes she had multiple aneurysms and brain surgerys throught the production of game of thrones...Dan and Dave started off great but got far too much attention and ego from said attention and than got just as tired of the same old thing as kit and were looking at really lucrative offers from other studios and were ready to sign those deals before the show plummeted any further than it had since season 5...im glad they put the Jon snow show to bed rather than drag up all the nonsense they would have had to retcon or come up with explanations for from the original show. I'm very cautiously optimistic for dunk and egg but planning on it sucking given the number of arya moments we are in store for from the boss girl hollywood of today
I felt horrible when I saw that clip of the actors reading the final script, possibly most of all for Conleth Hill. He was so disgusted, so disappointed...as were most of us.
If they redid the finale season, I can 100% guaranteed that the entire would would collectively ‘forget’ about the original final season, pretend it didn’t happen and forgive them all.
Honestly I'd be down for a time skip anywhere from the finale of S4 to S5. Make it 5 years like George originally planned to explain actors aging & just say the war continued in various places around Westeros inconclusively until that time. Things got steadily worse at the Wall etc. S6-8 all need wiping out & expanding.
Sameee. But idk if the actors and actresses are willing to reprise their roles tho. If they did remake the final season, we might get a few different actors playing beloved characters 😢
Honestly, Let Kit grow up for 10 years and revisit it. I would love to see an older, winter-worn Jon Snow story.
I’d watch that
What's there to tell tho? There's many compelling stories to tell in asoiaf. Best case imo is getting an animated show that covers the actual story and pray that grrm gives them the rest of it either via books or outlining it
Grey bearded Aegon Stark returning to Winterfell to stop a threat to the starks.
He's 37, you are talking as if he is in his early 20s. He is already winter-worn, in 10yrs, he will be winter-tired
He can play Ned stark when they reboot it all properly in 2030
When you said “instead of Arya jumping out of a damn bouncy house onto his back” 😂😂😂
I'M HOWLING!!! 😆😆😆
Not Arya jumping from a damn bouncy house🤣
"AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHhhhh!!!!"
I died at that 😂, but yeah.
If it just had to be “not Jon snow “ just to SuBVeRT ExPecTaTions” as D&D apparently liked so much to do, IMO the only workable 2nd option would have been Jaime , he could have died right there , completed redemption arc, but then later Arya grabs his face and kills Cersei herself - something like that the possibilities could be endless on how that could have been written better
That was awesome
As an Arya fan I was flabbergasted when she killed the NK I thought it would’ve been killed if she maybe tried to kill him but died in the process or she Killed Cersei as Jamie
Hollering 😂🤣🤣😭😭😭😭😭
I'm actually so stumped by the fact that the single most successful series they've had was underfunded?! How is this even possible?!
If they redid the last season entirely, I'd argue that it would make GOT even more popular. But it's obvious that the actors don't want to be associated with the franchise anymore
They could use different actors
Zack Snyder's cut anyone? Why not a new cut and rehire of shoots. I’m sure actors would unite on a good ending if the script is good and carries GRRM story post release of the Winds of Winter with a good momentum of book fans approval.
Damn.
I truly think GoT would be as popular as it ever was, and now is the time to do before the actors continue to age, another 10 years and some will of aged to much
@@rainluna9765 different actors would be a disaster waiting to happen. Kit Harrington as John Snow is as iconic as Mark Hamil as Luke Skywalker for example..to do a proper reboot of GoT it will take more time..may be when the original actors are in their 70s or something..
2:02 Then just take a break and come back strong. Fans would have waited happily...
wait until GRRM really finishes the books or tells how it ends
@@markobolo4465😂😂 he’s never going to finish WoW he just came out and said he doesn’t even know when he’ll be done. AND there’s stills a dream of spring for the final book and who knows allow little he’s written of that. the “real” ending is never coming
@@markobolo4465 he will never do it, he simply doesnt care anymore. And he also said that he doesnt want another writer to finish the story after he is gone so we can forget a true ending for ASOIAF.
Kit said he was tired during the last season. Considering he checked into rehab after it ended, I wouldn't doubt his mind was processing a lot, including a sense of disappointment. We've all heard the jokes about how S8 watered Jon down to "I don't want it" and "she's my queen".
This is an odd statement from him given how long the gap was between s7 and s8. And denying it was his idea after GRRM went into detail about the team - weird.
I always figured Harrington would always love Jon and relate to him in much the same way Jensen Ackles loves Dean Winchester so much. Perhaps Harrington was another victim of season 8.
That all said, my opinion on the broad strokes of where everyone ended up were entirely likely for Winds, but the last two seasons were so rushed those realities were a shock to most. Dany was always a coin flip. Sansa could indeed succeed with the mental chess learned from Littlefinger. Bran's power could be dark or not. A scouring of Westeros or perhaps the north will be happening - George is too attached to Tolkien's approach in LOTR. But as George dabbled with more and more other projects I am increasingly pessimistic that Winds and Spring will ever be complete. I doubt there is anyone in the wings that could do justice to the unfinished works like Christopher Tolkien, Christopher Rice or Robert Jordan's successor.
I don't hear anyone else talking about this but it doesn't seem to occur to anyone that D&D probably bled those actor dry. Especially the lead actors. The way they exploited Emilia and just in the way they treated the cast overall throughout the series? I think the environment on that set wasn't always fun. Dare I say, was probably even toxic. The kooky fans don't usually take this sort of thing into account when it comes to these blockbuster shows. And but after watching the series during it's original run and seeing everything in the media about the series.This is my impression.
SHE? Im a female police officer and I find that really offensive
Jon turned into Steve MuhQueen.
@@nathandoughty6131Yeah, you!
Dude,
The derailment starts in season 6, but 8 is absolutely unforgivable
not only did they screw up everything in terms of story, but they also dishonored key characters
True
That Emilia reaction, is going to live in infamy.
“Best season everrrr” 🤭
Yes!! I love Emilia Clark all around and that clip is one of the many reasons why lol
@@jrob4795Her eyebrow says it all 🥺😮💨😵😂
I actually think more about her pretending to throw up when asked about the reaction to the script. Kit summing up the season in one word and Peter Dinklage looking like he was held at gunpoint while calling D&D the greatest writers in television were also great ones.
D&D either told cast the truth or they didn't. I'm hoping they did and this was just acting.
George has full TV rights and creative control and has D&D on a NDA.
George was always planning 1 book per season. And D&D easily made 1 full season every year until Season 6 which had caught up to book 6 of 7. Then George was saying he wanted to do 10-12 seasons but D&D only wanted to do 7 season ... for 7 books. In 2016 five years after publish book 5. Hmmmmm? And in 2024 George states he's 3/4 done with book 6 when back in 2016 Season 6 had caught up to book 6 with Dany easily able to take the Throne from Cersei ... Arya planning ot kill Cersei with her bare hands & Jaime's face ... Tyrion wondering why Dany's dragons did not kill him after SMELLING his blood .... and Bran heading to Winterfell to tell Jon (fire) & Sansa(ice) that they are Cousins and Jon's a Prince. Hmmmmmmm?
D&D clearly are under an NDA but they still should have been able to tell the cast that they were deliberately making both seasons "bad" for a reason.
Remember GRRM approve the Season 2 House of Undying visions where 1) Dany takes the throne in Winter then 2) Dany dies north of the wall. Season 7 was all about not fulfilling the prophesies of Season 2 in the most ridiculous & idiotic ways.
The worst Season is 7 not 8. But deliberately so.
"A Targaryen has to be on the throne, or the realm will fall into chaos." This phrase captures the belief that the Targaryen family is essential to the stability and order of the realm, therefore, the night King is still out there!
I hope he finds peace. He seems very hurt.
He is a fun addition to industry n yay no shirt lol
He was an alcoholic if I remember correctly. Did not handle all that fame, attention, stress that well... At least he seems to have recovered
We all are😢😢
@@onepunchbud1472 Yeah imagine wherever you go ppl scream at you "THE KING IN THE NORTH"
@@DutchPlanDerLindeFromTahiti yeah fans / people are crazy nowadays.
I don't want to be famous.... Not for me 😂
The thing that ticked me off with ending was the response that the fans were critiquing the actors and crew for final season. The sole blame was on the show runners/writers. The rest just did as they were told so imo are blameless.
Divisive? How? Everyone was united in hating it.
Not really.
I used to think that, but if i would guess, 80% hated it, 20% liked it. Wild estimates, but if you look around online you could see plenty of people like it.
While in my opinion it was garbage, good for them if they did like it
Only a 1% of clueless normies liked it, 99% folks hated it.
@@A7XKoRnRocks1 some people read books, often swore at the changes, but still loved the finale. s8 wasn't great but the final episode and the last 10 minutes of it- brilliant.
Me before watching it: how bad could it possibly be?
Me after watching it: how could it possibly be any worse?
The person ultimately responsible for how GoT finished is George R.R. Martin. The screen writers created an ending based on what they had to work with....vague ideas. George profits from the shows, but gets a pass for the ending he has yet to write, and some 5 years later, possibly never will.
He really has no incentive to finish them now
The creators had material that they did work with that they absolutely butchered. Ellaria Sand is the antithesis of vengeance in the books. She has a monologue talking about the futility of it. When Jaime releases Tyrion from King’s Landing he tells him the truth about his first wife and Tyrion vows to kill Jaime the next time he sees him. Sansa never goes to Winterfell and has never met Ramsey. Rob Stark married a completely different character in the book and she is still alive. It was 💯 the show runners fault. They messed up this story as early as season 2. Those are just a handful of examples of how the creators took the book material and absolutely butchered it. Characters are the same in name only from book to show. It’s embarrassing.
Nah fam, they changed the trajectory of the story from season 2 of the show. They couldn’t do what the books are going to do. Only season 1 was nearly identical.
Once you read clash of kings then watch season 2. You know the show had no chance of being like the books.
@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116So you expect the showrunners to write themselves into the same corner as GRRM? When they also have to write a season every yesr, regardless of writer’s block?
@@m0zric no? Where did I say that? Can you honestly ask a question without inserting your own beliefs into my words?
A Jon Snow show intrigues me, but i don't know if i can take anything seriously after the events of S7 & 8. They were huge immersion-breakers.
Maybe the night king survived and transferred into something, maybe the babies. Jon has to then go find drogon, get help from Bran. They could make Bran actually useful. And have sansa die. Alot of great ideas they could go with.
@@thecensoredmuscle563fr, Bran was freaking useless
I like the idea that "Bran" is actually evil. John has to go down and take the throne from his one time brother, would be amazing.
@@AllanRinnegan Yeah, it still is crazy that Bran was like 15th in show time when they planned for him to take over the Iron Throne. Rule #1 - the protagonist gets the most screen time (or pretty close).
Bran wasn't in the top 10 which is why when Tyrion makes his speech "who has the best story....Bran" - every person in every reaction video is shocked. Because the cardinal rule of tv is that the person with the most screentime is the protagonist. Hence why there were Tyrion, Jon, Dany and even Samwell Tarly fans who thought they should win the Game of Thrones. Because even Sam competed in screentime equally or better than Bran. Keep in mind there's a whole season without Bran. The winner of the "show" wasn't in one of its 8 seasons, and it was a 10 ep season he missed.
I 100% understand why kit wants to separate himself with the show, but let's be honest, nobody anywhere will ever see him as anyone other than jon Snow. It sucks for his career, but if he embraced it, it could possibly produce an unforgettable show.
Yeah then he appeared in eternal which was even more cringe
@@seankoas 100%
Reminds me of Leonard Nimoy with Star Trek - first (somewhat angry) biography 'I am not Spock', followed by his more philosophical, later in life 'I am Spock'. I hope Kit finds that peace with it.
@trudimclaren4301 that's a perfect example of what embracing the role could bring to Kit, but he just might be too stubborn
What was the point in telling us that Jon snow is a Targaryen n not do anything with it n let not get started on the white walkers
The only purpose behind the Jon parentage reveal is so Bran can use it to destroy the Jon/Dany alliance. it serves no other function in the story.
@@blinkusfishus2052 It did. Aegon Targeryon was foreshadowed since the beginning of the books when we are told about Robert vs Rhaegar and the kidnapping of Leahna . We then hear about Rhaegar's infidelity and how his other children turned out as well as his obsession at the end of his life with the prophecy. In a sense John does fulfill Rhaegar's phrophecy by bringing together the world against the Whitewalkers and then preserved peace by choosing to both kill the new tyrant and abdicate from his birthright, therefore sparing further bloodshed.
It hurts even more every time the "song of ice and fire" is mentioned in the house of the dragon dialogues.
It pains, feels like they're pouring lemon juice on the wound every time they mention the prophecy.
@@redragon_istaken incredible cope. I said the reveal of Jon's parentage only serves one purpose, and it does nothing else. Jon already was a king, he already got Dany the 'tyrant' to fight the white walkers - he does all this as Jon Snow. Once he's told of his parentage it has no other impact on him but to destroy the alliance he has with Dany. bran does this deliberately imo.
@@blinkusfishus2052they wanted the story to be “unpredictable” but you can’t reveal that jon is the rightful heir to the throne and nothing even comes of it.
The “Our favorite bastard” opening line resulted in coffee blown all over my screen. Thanks! 😀😀😀
I wouldn't have even minded if Arya came in and killed the Night King, as long as there was an epic fight between Jon Snow and the Night King first. She could've saved the day and saved Jon Snow but how it played out was garbage.
Não. In my opinion, Arya would have served best slaying Cersei and even Jamie…sh*t Tyrion too. 🤣 She had no ties to the NK.
@@KaiPhD yeah arya was a facechanging assassin and she only used it once, meanwhile jon was resurrected to kill night king
@@markobolo4465he was resurrected to unite the North against the army of the dead, and to kill Dany.
I think even if Jon would have fight and loose his arm while holding a dagger, badass Arya could grab it and stab NK using her assassins skills.
Arya should have killed Cersei, not the night king.
GOT was amazing when it followed the books. Once it passed out the books, the writers had no ideas how to finish unless they ruined the last book that GRRM still hasn't finished
It only followed the first book. Right away from season 2 and Clash of Kings, it’s now a completely different story.
Season 1-4 are still good though. A lot of the show changes were actually fantastic. After that it’s complete slop.
I laughed out lound when you said, "our favorite bastard".
still one of my favorite scenes in the series, when tyrion calls joffrey "bastard" like 8 times lolol
😂😂😂yes
Me too!
same 😭😭💀
Same! haha
The actor who played Jamie really took the season 8 criticism to heart and lashed out against them, but i think it's valid. The actors and effects team, pretty much everyone except the writers worked their asses off and people despised it.
Kitt Harrington, Sophie Turner, and Emilia Clark got defensive towards the fans also but the fans weren’t criticizing them just the show runners.
@@JohnFourtyTwo yes, agreed!! I wish they knew all our hate was for the writers
My "Snow" would open with the Gate at the Wall slamming shut and Jon waking up after months in a coma in White Harbor being cared for by the Maestor of House Manderly realizing what he saw was a vision of a possible future planted in his Mind by Bran to prepare him for the Long Night
Hmm that could save the show then we could finish the last 4 seasons, stretch them to 8 and do it right! WoW may be coming out by the end of this year or early next too so we'd have more good material to work with! I really loved the actors and want them to stay the same but hard to for the kid's roles depending on how far back you go to redo it.
They did all the actors and everyone who worked on Got,dirty with the final series. Such a damned shame.
It’s so clear that D&D hate Jon Snow. Just look at the difference at how they treated characters like Jon, Daenerys and Stannis compared to how they treated Tywin and Arya (or even Ramsay).
It seems like anything that's targaryen or valyrian related was just scrapped off for some reason🤔
Not surprising when you read their early life on Wikipedia 💀
True. Very true.
@@mikerelva6915tl;dr?
@@lethabomokoma2439nah Dany was always gonna burn down kings landing and Jon although he is a Targaryen was still more of a stark in everything but name.
1:07 lol her saying that is still hilarious, even now. She shows that language is not only based off what you say.
Martin doing everything except finishing his books 😂
Ok. Hear me out. Jon Snow is north of the wall and finds Bloodraven’s weirwood tree. Because Brandon was a green seer, he communicates to Jon via weirwood and discovers that Brandon isn’t the king of the six kingdoms; it’s Bloodraven using Brandon’s skin to rule. This doesn’t sit right with Jon so he tries to make things right. He discovers that Bloodraven was controlling Danaerys when she burned King’s Landing.
This is why everyone acted so out of character in season 8.
It all makes sense now
We all already know the white wallers are a creation of the children of the forest. And originates from the same tree. Make the tree evil and we've got a show. Bring back the white wallers and the long night. Give jon white targaryen hair after his resurrection and a dragon.
@2.28 , "better than having Arya jumping out of a damn bouncy house onto his back", and 😂😂😂
🤣😂 I’m crying laughing…so spot on. Like where did she even come from amidst that army of White Walkers? 😂🤣 Made no sense among other things.
😂😂😂 dead
Helpful tip, if you remove the @ sign and format the time like this- 2:26 it will auto timestamp and clicking it will bring you to the time you listed
Aragorn tossed her.
I wish the Night King would’ve caught Arya, blocked her knife-drop move, then drove her own dagger through the bottom of her chin into her brain. Then he could’ve killed or possessed Bran (whatever his plan was) and Jon could have a.) lost his mind and killed the Night King in a good fight b.) realize that Bran was the Night King now and he was too late. Then Bran could raise Arya and Theon. Jon would’ve had an impossible choice to make then. Would’ve made the story so much better and they would’ve had more story for at least 2 or 3 more episodes. And of course, completely change the finale.
I believe that Jon is both ice and fire so I believe the Song of Ice and Fire is about Jon Snow. Jon was supposed to be the prince that was promised. I loved Dany, but Jon would have been a great King.
Jon was definitely on track to be King Beyond the Wall. My theory is that the end of GoT is only a cliffhanger. I guess give it another 20 years… My strong belief is that Jon is related to Mance and quite possible Bael. I think the purpose of Bael the Bard was not only to save the Stark bloodline but to also hint that Weir Tree have the ability to allow teleportation. That lays the ground work for something interesting. Of course Danny is not dead, just off to the shadowlands. And Theon is the new Night King. I laid out all of the foreshadowing to George in a long letter and he said he would not say I was completely right but it was an interesting theory.
@@JohnJStanton "Their must always be a Lich King"
Jon snow is the prince that was promised.
And the King that never was.
I somewhat like the idea that Jon kept to the "I don't want it".
It show how traumatized Jon was from being in power. His brothers killed him... he was more then done with ruleling.
It was just that it got repetitive how it had to be stated 10 times every episode in season 8.
Jon is indeed of ice and fire. And that makes him for a great character. You'll need a little ice to cool down that fire. ^^
You really notice it on other Tagaryens. The are too passionate, too hot headed, or just downright edgy.
Down the line Jon is Neds true eihr. All he had was the lie about Ned being his Father.
The dragon grew up in a pack of wolves. Being taught he's a wolf.
Ned must have been so relieved once it was clear that Jon would have dark hair.
Ice is about white walkers not Starks.
@@twistedelegance_ she's the mother of dragons she birthed the dragons and the show is house of the "dragon" she's important but not the prince who was promised
I'm still not over it!! WILL NEVER FORGET...
John Snow and Luke Skywalker deserved so much better than the wretched writers they were given.
Yeah
@@cathylanders6377agree
They need to remake season 8 in a movie probably
A John Snow show would be a roll of the dice. Are the writers good? The directors? Just because it's got a great character, a great actor, wouldn't guarantee a good show, especially when it would have almost nothing to do with George RR Martin's genius other than it is based on his characters (think Rings of Power). Heck, even House of the Dragon is unraveling quality wise and Martin at least supplies some good plot points for that show.
I feel so bad for Kit. He was so depressed after GOT that he became an alcoholic and would get drunk all the time to cope. He still seems to be traumatized
Me too
I don’t think there has been a greater screw job for fans than Jon Snow and the finale season of game of thrones. The interview sounds like rubbish that he was told to say. We all deserve an ending where Jon wins or goes full on Targaryen and wastes everyone and thing! This passive avoidance and meek ending is annoying 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I'm glad he's finally admitted to the fact that mistakes were made. We're now one step closer to getting his FULL truth. It may take another five years, though. He still works on a HBO show for now...
@TalkingThrones I agree. Kit currently appears on the HBO series "Industry" and won't bite the hand that feeds him. I personally was lukewarm about Kit recurring his role as Jon Snow. The character deserved a better ending but to quote Lady Olena, "Once the cow's been milked there's no squirting the cream back up her udders" 😂
A series about Jon Snow wouldn't right the wrong of GOT season 8.
@@LadySophiaVelaryon it would not right the wrong but it would at least give some closure. There’s no unscrewing that season unless it was all a dream in a very marvel Deadpool variant way lol
@@LadySophiaVelaryon lol
Get ready for house of dragon. If they can't afford to run 10 episodes of a weak season 2 season 3 is going to be a even worse.
Nope, I have tried countless times to rewatch the series but every time I get a few episodes in, I remember the series finale and I immediately don’t want to continue. The series finale tainted the whole show.
The series finale never happened. Do remember from Season 6 onwards was almost purely D&D since the show caught up to the books at that point.
So to me, the show ends at Season 5
@@the_cringe_nerd Lol that's an interesting mindset to re-watch it, I like it.
Despite the ending i grew to live in peace with the series.
It still has some of the best medieval fantasy stories despite that and beautiful sets and action scenes, the actors also do an extremely good job with what they were given which makes me accept it much better after a rewatch. This show will probably be the only piece of media of and Ending to GoT since GRRM isn't in the best health condition and pretty old to finish this series, it's been literal more than 10+ years since the last book, the man is done with it
A lack of a 10 ep season has hurt so many shows. The boys, the umbrella academy, HODT S2, its really wild. I dont think it woulda helped got s8 but there def is a connection between shorter seasons and reduction in quality and storytelling.
What was the point of Bran becoming the 3 Eyed Raven? He wasnt a threat to the NK. Supposedly he could stop Night King, but he didnt do anything, he was just bait and we didnt even get a good reason why NK wants to kill him, cause its certainly not Bran being a danger to the NK.
I was so much more excited about the Jon Snow series than Dunk and Egg.
Why?
@@TheRealHerbaSchmurba Dunk and Egg is just not interesting.
@@YawnWoofDog but why do you find the Jon Snow premise interesting?
@@TheRealHerbaSchmurbasame as everyone, to have a conclusion that isn’t shoehorned in by two assholes that hate their source material and actors
@@OrlandoShroom But what story is left? The show ended, his charachter arc was destroyed. They should go back in Time or or make stories that do not need to stand on the GoT's back.
6:35 Evil Bran Stark is the dumbest GoT idea I've ever heard.
And I was so disgusted that he knew everything that was going to happen and sat on his arse and allowed it to happen just to sit on that diseased seat? Then What? See that where we need a new show. . .Danerys comes back because she was only Mostly dead. She hatch’s some more dragons and gets her revenge on Everyone. I’d watch it. She doesn’t even have to be alive. She can be dead like the Night King and Jon, with undead dragons.
Oh ok
Yep. So much for Aegon's prophecy that a Targaryen sitting on the iron throne after that white walkers 😅😂😂😂 they can come back with Bran is the new Night King, Dany comes back to life, another war and Dany sits and Jon king of the north
To be frank that’s not bran that’s bloodraven, he has been behind the scenes pulling all the strings. I’m hoping with the dunk and egg series people will learn more about him and understand how “evil bran” makes a lot of sense. Bloodraven was a monster and would do whatever it took to make his desires a reality and it could easily be a plot line.
@cassiehobbs5751 how can you watch her murder a city and her most intelligent advisor and still think she is in the right
Dan and Dave are really good at adapting existing content, no good at finishing such complexity without source material. George really should have finished that last book while the show was progressing.
They are great until they tried to Disney it up to appease Disney to get hired for star wars.
You have to understand that George is super busy yeah, not writing the rest of the books mind you, but writing crap for the other GOT spin off shows coming on HBO. I don't think he will ever finish the saga.
They were "good" because they had source material to work with. After that they lacked creativity to continue being good.
@@Aztaable just what I said .
@@NoeAnton agreed
The show was on top of the world for years, even people who never watched it or read any of the books like myself knew about it, yet after the ending all of it vanished like it never existed. That's how bad the ending was.
Sounds like it was a mixture of things that led to the hurried ending. Exhausted actors, directors/showrunners wanting to move onto something new and absolutely no source material to pull from. Let's never underplay the part that George played in the show going out with a whimper.
I still loved the show and always kind of factored in that defeating the Night King would likely mean an end to the White Walkers (certainly in immediate vicinity) although obviously it should have been Jon Snow that did the killing and it should have been given it's own epic episode to play out.
Interesting that Kit is basically washing his hands of anything to do with his character now to avoid being typecast so I don't ever see a Jon Snow spinoff.
HBO have not exactly came out of this in a good light either.
Divisive ending? Lmao what? This was the most unanimously hated season of TV ever. No one was divided about it. Everyone deplored it
It was definitely divided: 8 billion people hated it, and two people, D & D, thought it was fine.
If it wasn't for the last season, GoT would have been the best show of all time.
But even close. Season 5-8 were just action set pieces and fan service. It totally lacked all the political drama and intrigue of the first 4 seasons and just became an extended Marvel film.
@@MrMortadella1great description, they tried to make Starks and specially snow into Disney heroes. Threw the prophecies and politics into trash.
@@MrMortadella1 the political drama was ending players were reduced because the big threat was coming "winter is coming" and bloddy ended in one night after breaking the wall atleast a season for something like a long night humanity on the brink of extinction
Season 6 was meh and 7 was as trash as 8 was, so we can assume s8 didnt come out of nowhere.
@@MrMortadella1 Wow, I do agree with you 100%.
Evil bran stark who orchestrated everything from the original series would be the only thing that might help repair the damage of the last season. It would be epic to watch too
8 seasons and we never got a big white walker fight….. sad
We did get a big white walker fight it was just so dark outside we couldn't see
Budgets
@@kayindaiske🛵 Walkers never fought anyone in that episode. And it was called 'the long night'. Sorry there are no streetlamps in Weateros. 🕯️
So many were mad it wasn't Jon but he can't be the hero in every single thing through the end of the show. He brought everyone together to save the world from ice but Arya getting blind faceless man training wasn't just so she could kill random wights or Cersei.
I agree. I rewatched the entire series with my parents and was a firm hater of the later seasons.
But expectation mixed with a more flowing narrative without the year wait for new seasons and speculation made a much better time to me, i actually accepted everything and even like it now T_______T
Dan and Dave intentionally fucked that show. I don't even think it was their best effort. I think some of the time, they intentionally wrecked it.
It was intentional, and I'm sure Disney forced them to for that star wars show they were wanting to do.
The Game of Thrones made all the actors famous. They all should be appreciative to have been involved in such an epic show and story
A Jon Snow show is exactly what we need. That character needs plot redemption.
Absolutely not. There is no story, there is no this charachter. It was butchered. They should move on.
The issue is that show Jon Snow is a watered down, less proactive, less ambitious, version of the character, and the status quo of westeros is totally different from pre season 8.
You'd essentially be starting from scratch, and GRRM should just sit down and finish winds already.
@@SIRslipperyasp91 yes, yes he should. He don't got all the time in the world left. (as in grrm should finish the books)
Just 1 scene of him going back to winterfell. Like Danny’s army left, there is literally nobody to stop him from just coming back lol
It’s still so hurtful 😢
You are the best Westerosi commentator on CZcams. Always backed up with facts, much better than some others I won’t mention.
Weird how KHbin one breath said he didn’t want to back to Westeros and then was talking about his JS series.
I really hope HBO do HotD justice in season 3 it’s building up to a crescendo and don’t want it to fizzle out
We didn't need 2 more seasons. Just good 8th season.
And I dont really understand how can you be "tired" of a role in one of the biggest and most popular universes in history, playing fans favourite character.
That doesn't mean it is his favorite role or universe, and doing something just because the fans like it, can be stressful
Plot twist jon and danny sit the iron throne arya master of whispers
Sansa would be master of whisperers, arya master of faces
@@BourbonBiscuit.Arya will be official assassin for king 😂
It's a shame that Game of Thrones is the End of the entire story.... So every show they make beyond that will always have the same conclusion regardless of what happens, we already know the outcome.
Just like Star Wars sequels, everything in the prequels doesn't matter anymore since the whole story ends in sequels
HBO has good writers and actors on House of the Dragon that are not burned out on the franchise. They should give them what they need and let them do it justice. It would ease the pain of GoT a little bit. I don't understand cutting costs that would undercut a good product. This is what happens when the bottom line is the only important thing. The merger is a disaster and another great example of a monopoly being bad.
They could also explore the theory of Bran being the Night King, that Bran being chosen to lead Westeros was his plan all along, making the survivors think that the White Walker threat has been stopped
He’ll be back. I have a feeling. Let a few years pass.
The Season 9 that you wrote was magnificent. Send that to GRRM and HBO to get them to make that.
It still hurts
There is a theory that the Stark children are from Aemond one eye's line, his supposed child with Alys Rivers from the books, she was apparently pregnant when he died and in charge of Harrenhal for a long time then House Whent came to be the holders of Harrenhal, Catelyn Tully's mother is a Whent.
If the theory is true,
The night king was killed by a descendant of Aegon the Conqueror.
I feel like they just had runner ups if one failed there would be another Aegon bloodline member to do the job. Since Jon, Gendry, Daenerys, Arya, Sansa, Bran, and Brienne of Tarth all are descendant of Aegon the Conqueror since they all have Targaryen blood (mind you the Stark girls and Bran are only a theory but it seems like timelines match up??? so...)
Baratheon's are a bastard Targaryen line but also have Targaryen woman married into the line throughout the years and Robert Baratheon's grandma was a Targaryen.
Brienne's father's mother or grandmother is a Targaryen.
so there are three absolute "prince that was promise" bloodline to fulfill the prophecy, and the three secret "prince that was promise" bloodline to fulfill the prophecy.
Funny how they almost mirror each other
both Sansa and Daenerys can't fight physically
both Arya and Brienne know how to sword fight
but Jon, Gendry and Bran don't at all mirror each other, unless you count them as sharing the saying of, "Cripples, Bastards, and Broken Things" since they are all treated the same by society, outcasts that are looked down upon.
Jon/Gendry/Bran is "Aegon"
Arya/Brienne is "Visaenya"
while
Sansa/Daenerys is "Rhaenys"
Seasons 5-8 went rapidly downhill from hotdog water to full blown dumpster fire.
1 and 2 were peak game of thrones. 5 was on the same level of 3 to be honest. 6 however became nonsense.
You all are truly inspiring with your kindness. Thank you!
I didn't like how, they built up Jon Snow from the beginning only, for him not to be the one, to Kill the night king then, eventually be the King just to end up back in the north. I also thought,the two Queens would've had a fight to the death.
Lol what? Cersei has never been a fighter, that would have been extremely weird
cersi needed to be killed by arya even danerys should be killed by arya
Worst part was "Bran the Broken". Most cringey scene in the whole show.
@@offensivearchnever understood why they couldn’t use Bran the Raven over that hot garbage of a title lol
Arya could have disguised herself to become Jaime, since she could inexplicably change her height, shoulder width, etc just by putting a mask on, then made love to Cersei, and afterwards ripped the mask off and yelled "Fooled Ya!" That would've been great.
Arya jumping castle and Jon yelling at dragon 💀🫠😭 that is what the greatest show ever became.
I’d rather wait for a Snow show than have a bad one right away. Though it sounds like we won’t get one ever.
we don't need a snow spinoff rather a reboot maybe a decade later
@@markobolo4465
Maybe
i will die with this pain.
as a indian 3 most painful events of my life till date:
1. GOT, final episodes
2. 19th Nov
3. Vinesh Phogat disqualification.
There was never gonna be a spinoff. They were just trying to raise interest to sell the company off again.
I'd rather have winds of winter over all of these prequels and sequels.
I’m thinking maybe they could not agree on creative control. I believe after the mess with the ending of GOT. Kit and his team may have wanted to have more say in the story and perhaps that was not something HBO or some ome behind the scenes could or would agree to . They could’ve consentrated on other parts for a bit and answered some questions and give some of the main cast a break to help fatigue and burn out . We all need a break now and then . HBO couldve added more writers too . I just dont understand walking away from something that was so well received. But then i didn’t live it , they did . I hope one day see JON, ARYA,BRAN , and SANSA . In something new with some answers to what was and a new twist . 🤞🤞🤞🤞
We would have given HBO and the actors all the time in the world to give the series a sendoff worthy of their hard work and tbe fans' devotion for a decade
How did Arya even survive? Imagine jumping from a roof top and getting your neck caught between two branches.
How did she survive in season 6 after getting gutted and thrown into dirty water. Then was able to run through the city, even sliding on her stomach down stairs. Lol
@@thecensoredmuscle563 but this is night king dosen't everything he touches become ice he once touched bran while warging
I respect Harrington and co. very much for passing something up if they thought it wasn't a workable idea. It also makes sense imo that he would want to branch out after so much work on GoT.
He's already done a lot of excellent projects and I wish him the best. All the best to ya
No. Make snow now. I am 61 years old. I don't have 10 years. Jon is a targaryen. Have him accept it and create circumstances that force him back to kingslanding and eventually and reluctantly becoming king and restarting the targaryen bloodline
The problem with continuing after season Eight, Jon Snow or no Jon Snow, is that I cannot unsee what I have seen.
Just finish the book
If he was going to, he already would have.
Just like kit “I just can’t watch that show”
I'd watch the spinoff if Jon comes back and claims the throne like he should have in the first place
All they need to do is release a martin cut
Of all the GOT based series in development, Snow sounded the most interesting to me. It was also a great opportunity to readdress the ending of the original series and fix some of the mistakes. The plot could be simple premise. The White Walker Arya killed may have created that entire army of the dead, but he wasn't the Night King. Everyone just assumed he was. The real Night King is still out there.
Yeah and Jon has to go find Drogon, and Bran could be finally useful.
@@thecensoredmuscle563Drogon would have torched him
@@thecensoredmuscle563 Drogon does need another rider...
A resurrected Dani, would make Snow work.. GoT fans would definitely want to see that reunion.
man even though everything the show will never be unmatched
HBO should have fired them the moment they said they had a set amount of episodes and want no more
At the very least, the original author give an episode-by-episode breakdown, showing why more episodes and seasons are required. Then D&D would need to counter that, and 'prove' on paper that they could do it quicker (which they wouldn't be able to, of course).
@@spillanegottleib1681 right that would have been fair as well
You can't fix just wiping out the white walkers after that build up unless somehow the night king didn't die and you start again
À John Snow spinoff would be a hit…. You could , gradually, incorporate other willing cast members….
They should record the final season again and better this time.
3:10 Juntao looks upsetted about it