Starfall: will House Dayne save Westeros?
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- čas přidán 28. 04. 2024
- What’s up with House Dayne? Why did Arthur Dayne die at the tower of joy? Did Ashara Dayne love Ned Stark, or Brandon? Who is Wylla? What role will Ned Dayne and Darkstar play in the story? Is Dawn the original Lightbringer? Do the Daynes descend from the Great Empire of the Dawn?
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More Game of Thrones videos: • Game of Thrones & A So...
Rhaegar: • Rhaegar: was Jon’s fat...
Images and video from Game of Thrones used under fair use
Images from The World of Ice and Fire used with permission from Random House
Arthur, Ashara, Darkstar art by Bella Bergolts: www.deviantart.com/bellabergolts
Map by Klaradox: klaradox.de/en/
Great Empire of the Dawn art by Krzysztof Ostrowski: www.artstation.com/kostry
Arthur art by Mobo Boehme: www.artstation.com/artwork/xEwdX
King Arthur art: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
Brandon Stark art by Mike Hallstein: mike-hallstein.deviantart.com/
Ashara falling (Sappho): commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
Knight and lady: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Le...
Ned Dayne art by Rae Lavergne: / i-am-a-lady-damn-it
Rhaegar & Lyanna, Darkstar art by Mathia Arkoniel: www.deviantart.com/mathiaarko...
Nissa Nissa art by Amok: / amokanet
Yi Ti art by Henrik Zähringer
Bloodstone Emperor art by Mandy Finke: / mafin_art
Amethyst Empress art by Oriana Wiesner: / ownix
Amethyst: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
Five Forts art by Martin Höhnle
References & further reading:
GRRM on comics: • Superheroes Decoded: T...
History of Westeros on Daynes: • House Dayne: Part 1 - ...
Lies and Arbor on Ashara: liesandarbor.tumblr.com/post/...
LML on Daynes and Great Empire of the Dawn: asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...
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#GameOfThrones #ASOIAF
0:00 House Dayne
1:31 Arthur
3:34 Ashara
7:58 Edric & Wylla
10:47 Bleeding Star
14:43 Lightbringer
16:57 Darkstar
19:44 Great Empire
*Every missing character is Quaithe.*
Quaithe is the good qualitiy of season 8 confirmed
Though Quaithe is actually Rhaegar pretending to be Alyssa Farman.
Quaithe is the friends we made along the way.
@@El_Descarriado So there's no Quaithe then?
@@maxhydekyle2425 Oh.
Jon Snow becomes worthy of Dawn, and gets offered it.
Jon Snow: "I dun wannit."
She is muh queen
Lmao
The stupidest hero ever,didnt want everyone give him and choose exile life lol didnt have motivation whatsoever
"Ah nevur did"
@@Beraksekebon21 yeah, its almost like that was the only time he was ever happy or something...man that sure is stupid...choosing happiness over a prestigious and empty life.
I just realized how stacked Aerys' Kingsguard were. He probably had the 3 best swordsmen alive at the time. Arthur Dayne, Barristan Selmy, and Jaime Lannister.
Of all time
You forgot Gerold Hightower
And, at least in the show, they all went out like punks. Stabbed in the back, killed in an alleyway by lowlife thugs, crushed by rocks.
True, but they're not very helpful when most of the continent has rebelled and you have tens of thousands of soldiers to fight.
And all of them complete pussies except Jaime and Barristan
10:20 So Howland Reed doesn't just collect artifacts and secrets, he collects all the missing characters as well? He's like the guys who are doing a 100% achievement run.
I think this is him giving a nod to what started as a joke theory that got taken more seriously over time. H+A=M+J. Basically, reinterpreting the events at Harrenhal that it wasn't Ned or Brandon that Ashara fell for, but Howland Reed. Part of that theory also has Arthur's survival as well, but I am not quite sure how someone like him would be doing nothing for so long. Not to mention, unless he doesn't have Dayne coloring, one would think he would be real recognizable.
@@LeonheartDelta The main clue is that Meera, not Jojen, is presented as Howland's heir. Dorne is the only place in Westeros where male preference primogeniture isn't the custom. Also, they're the ones who told the story of the Knight of the Laughing tree, something Bran hadn't heard of. Why is this an important story to the Reeds, but not the Starks. Could it be because that's where their parents met? Meera is also roughly the same age as Robb and Jon.
He's going for his version of the ME2 perfect suicide mission
@@carlrood4457 well fuck
imagine being a character dying, like 1% health and suddenly this swampy looking guy runs up to you and you're scooped up magically into his inventory smh
Got here faster than D&D writing the show’s last season.
impossible
theres no way
It was like Xmas morning seeing this pop up!
So two years. You are a bit slow
*laugh that turns into crying*
When some guy on youtube spends more time writing a 25 min video about some backstory family than two show writers on the whole finale
I'm pretty sure you've written more in this comment about house dayne than D&D ever did
that's not fair, i'm sure the writers spent countless hours writing the finale... they just suck and are stupid
@@WrangleMcDangle ,,oh yeah i have lots of writing experience and i've run hundreds of tv shows but because muh kween died, d&d bad"
@@tudorolariu8117 there are so many reasons they're terrible, the queen was simply the final nail in the coffin
@@chungusdisciple9917 the only problem with dany's arc was that it was rushed. But the idea of her turning mad I think it's really poetic and tragic.
I love that Alt's accent makes it absolutely impossible to pick the difference between him saying "Dawn" and him saying "Dorne".
Lmao true
Do you know querer he's from?
@@ryuzzakibsb aussie
"Dohn"
@@fkcrewclips2852 I realized only after he used the word root to mean have sex in the Jamie video
“Rhaegar got hammered”. Well done, I actually laughed out loud at that one.
By the king who was hammered 24/7
@@faisalkamal4319 he literally wasn't tho wasn't he? Didn't he die fighting Ser Duncan The Tall?
@@GeraltORivia different Baratheon
"Darkstar is a tryhard emo edgelord who wants everyone to know how dark and brooding he is." the most accurate description of Darkstar.
True but I freaking loved Darkstar, such fun chapters
@@devonhart1980yeah, I also like him a lot as a character, he's intriguing.
But he's not...
AGREED!! I just think he's a sexy bad boy with BIG AGENDA. Just can't see Robert Smith or Depeche Mode cutting a girls ear off!!Emo's aren't very brave or bad ass 😜😂🤘@Wisdom Manari'
Also sounds a lot like Kylo Ren. Awful, awful character
I'm surprised you didn't mention the fact that Martin has said he's kept the Dayne family words a secret because they're too spoilery
Dayne family words are just "R+L=J".
Alternatively "Arya Kills the NK"
I mean, I don't want to say that they contain the word "lightbringer"... but yeah
Where'd he say this? Got a link?
“Bringers of the light”? Or maybe something to that effect?
A Humpier Rogue “Tony Stark dies in Endgame”
I like how the Daynes hold such a mythological status even though their house doesn't play any part in the story
It’s the way with a lot of the houses in a song of ice and fire, which is part of what makes it so cool to me at least. Even the houses that arnt in the spotlight have history and are important in their own way even outside the story. I literally went on a deep dive into House Royce recently.
yet
im certain the tourny of herrenhal is single most important event in the entire series.
I think it will be the tragedy at Summerhall but the tourney is definitely a close second
"the tourny of herrenhal"
Richard Nixon 😂 just a blood bath
@@looloowhiskey I know... I know
Long Night...
arthur faked his death and is secretly quaithe.
Emilio Andres interesting. Much of PlanetOS takes a dim view on homosexuality (with exceptions, yes). I wonder how they would treat a transsexual. 🤔
@@ettanasf There is historical precedent if you really care enough to look into it and sate your wonder.
You misspelled Mance.
😂
@@lanestapp2 YES and the other missing kings guard, its plain to read once you know what you are reading. Some very obvious clues and by the time Mance/Arthur duels John in the yard there is no questions.
"In the TV show Arya pulls a sneaky on the night king, but in the books...." we have actual storytelling, a consistent script, people not acting like idiots.
No, the reason why they did what they did was because they’re both award baiting narcissists and thinking making Danny insane would help them get them tv awards. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦♂️
@@donalddeluxe6407 Well, you're not wrong about dumb and dumber, but Danny going mad is probably going to happen.
She is very fond of burning people, and is haunted by prophecy, a lot like Cersei is.
Rick Sweeney I know that the books will be significantly different in the show, but since George is a significantly better writer she may go insane in a nuanced and in character way than by a chime of a fucking bell. It’s not the fact that she went insane, it’s how she went insane in the show. Because dumb and dumber we’re going for shock value instead of making it in character.
@@hughjass2640 her "being fond of burning people," makes sense even without her being mad. What do you expect her to do? Wielding an executioner's sword?
@@noneofyourbusiness4294 How about not kill people in arguably the most horrific way possible? I'm sure Barriston or many other could handle that sword. The amount of ways people will bend over backwards to make themselves believe Dany is a good person.
It's incredible how much Brandon Stark was personally close to Robert Baratheon (confident, full of themselves, hot head, fuckboys) and Ned was more close to Stannis.
Es verdad.
Tenés razón.
Si es cierto
Ciertamente
@@iamfreedman6880 mood
Man, the complexity of the books is overwhelming but so fun
No wonder it's taking George forever to finish the books. This shit is more complicated than quantum physics. I love it.
@@karltanner3953 exactly. People who tell him to finish the books dont realize how many plots there are. Its ridiculous. So many prophecies,secrets,houses. So many things are intertwined as well. I would even understand if he doesnt ever finish it,its so fcking massive
@@niranjanrajesh1058 well lets hope he at the very least already has the Ending put to pen. Because from what I've heard writers tend to write their beginnings and endings first.
@@vincegalila7211 I'm not so sure about that, he has pointed out that he's not that kind of a writer with the 'architect and gardener' allegory.
@@sol___invictus don't you usually at very least know what kind of Plant your growing or what the Building your constituting is for?
Either way I have heard that he plans for a "Bittersweet" ending though that is very general.
If Arthur Dayne fought Ned Stark in Season 8, Arya would have just jumped in out of nowhere and stabbed him
I mean that sorta happened with Howland Reed already
@@Pasta-la-vista God I hope it's more involved than that.
Basically
@Jack Yup and making Theons dead pointless in the process, since Bran already knew Arya was coming.
Basically happened with Howland lol
I wonder if GRRM will ever watch these and be like, "man, I didn't notice that..."
He has created so many characters, locations and plotlines that a few things just HAVE to be coincidents.
Xoneris - yeah, like 85% of the things that are in fan theories are just coincidence, for sure.
To Mt understanding he doesn't like/watch or read fan theories
Its impossible to tie up so many plotlines neatly
@@hamzamahmood9565 Not true. I personally think George can pull it off.
The casting for Sir Arthur Dayne was exceptional. They got a really suitable actor to play him, and he played that character so well that he was so likeable even with one of the shortest screen time. What damned shame really.
we might get him back in the robert rebellion series
Yeah, the actor did a good job of conveying an aura of danger simply with his eyes. Also, he delivered his lines exceptionally.
"Lord Stark."
except the fact the amazing thing about his skill was he could use both hands...rendering Dawn irrellevent and so not there but yeah agree with the restr
@@harryjones84 He was the most skilled sword men in westeros and as far as I know he was the only warrior who used two swords in fight
One sword he carries is house Dayne's ancestral sword called "Dawn", it is made from a fallen meteroite
Other sword he carries is from the House he pledge loyalty to House targeryen
Bad ass
Dude didn't have to rename the sword. It's entirely possible that both Dawn and Lightbringer are just translations of whatever its original name was. "Lightbringer" could be the name translated into the common tongue through a separate valyrian translation while "Dawn" was the translation through the old tongue into the common tongue. Same sword, same name, different languages.
If the theory is correct of course.
Lightbringer and dawn do essentially mean the same thing.
Your voice brings me back to a simpler time. A time of wonder, excitement a time before the dark age, before the season 8.
seeing season seven 7 should gave you a clue how would season 8 work out.
@@sophiawilson8696 In hindsight yes I agree but damn was I holding out hope it all would work out in the end that it would all mean something
Fuckin' hell so true, I used to watch these vids on my break at work.
It got bad in season 5
@@wisdommanari6701 bad pussy
I'm still convinced that "Lightbringer" is an analogy for the Night's Watch itself as an organisation. Like, read the oath: "I am the sword in the darkness, [..], the light that brings the dawn."
Play telephone with that for 8000 years and you get a burning sword.
That would be anticlimactic
Ring ring ring ring ring ring ring, banana phone!
Totally, for 8000 years any concept could change a loooot
After 8 thousand years, it'll be religion which believes in hero prophet who killed his annoying wife.
@@zm4522 I heard someone say things like fate and prophecy have a way of fucking you over than actually being helpful
Arthur and Ned basically having the same goals, protect Lyanna and the kid, and not being able to talk it out makes perfect thematic sense. What kills Arthur? Duty and honor. What kills Ned? Duty and honor. If these two inflexible men had been willing to compromise on their honor, they'd both be alive. Arthur could have let Ned run off with the true heir, letting Ned say it is his bastard son, and Ned could have not warned Cersei and basically the entire continent about his discovery of Punnet Squares.
" Haven't you people ever heard of closing a goddamn door?"
- Gerold Dayne
Hahaha unexpected but welcome P!ATD reference.
I love how I used to watch these videos in accordance with the show,
now its going to be in accordance with the upcoming book
The secret is that these videos were always about the books 😉
As if there's ever going to be another book lmao
"upcoming"
upcoming book. LUL.
The show stopped becoming the books after season 3
And who has a better story then Brandon the Fuckboy?
Jajajajaja
How about Jon the aunt fucker?
Brandon the chairboy
Pod the Rod of the Morning.
than*
it kills me that we don’t know where edric is after the brotherhood separating. a 17-year-old edric wielding dawn and following the undead catelyn stark in the search for arya and revenge for the starks would be so badass.
One of the reasons why I wanted G.R.R.M to keep the 5 years timeskip idea! (And if this happened, Quentyn's chapters would be replaced by Edric's chapters of him trying to find Arya in Braavos with the Faceless Man with the help of Gendry, Jaime and Brienne!)
🙏 + 🤞 that he's going to find Darkstar
it’s nice idea but sounds like something a little bird would dream up 🙃
"Darkstar" has to be the most edgy name in ASOIAF
George is a huge deadhead and the whole book is full if grateful dead songs. My favorite dead easter egg is Darkstar
@@billybaugus1249 Mountains of the Moon and Dire Wolf
@@billybaugus1249 I mean he is a guy that dislikes it when the good guys win apparently with how shit the world is in his books
@@squashman2089 oh man it's loaded with them. The weirwood treee are named after Bobby Weir
@@delta2372 There is some realism there. Because often times the good guys don't win in life. More then often
I love the fact that dead characters like Aurther and rhaegar and lyanna have such an influence over the story years after they die
Basically the whole series is a consequence of a single crucial event that happened years before the events of the book... that is the Tournament at Harrenhal.
@@noneofyourbeeswax01 Or the Tragedy at Summerhall.
@@noneofyourbeeswax01 so the guy who arranged the tournament of Gartenhaus can basically be blamed for ducking Westeros for the next 20 years, because if he wouldn’t have invited like every member of the nobility of the known universe, many plots would never had happened?
@@Swiss_femboy No, not really. As it happens, the unannounced presence of the Mad King meant Rhaegal called off the plot which would have saved the Realm. The continued reign of the Mad King is what ensured the future troubles to come. Harrenhal set the future on a different path with many unforeseen consequences.
It also gives sooo much more meaning to people's actions, even after death their actions resonate. Killing people off does not always fix things, sometimes you need scheming and politics which is what GOT shines for
Darkstar: “Killed a swan yesterday. Did a shit on it. Roight on it.”
El Rico love the referance
I’m the dark side of the moon.
Goddamn, a Mighty Boosh connoisseur? Here?
Nice.
what is this a reference to?
"Like putting down a rabid, fascist dog"
Just the perfect description of Dany's death in the show.
What about her fits the label “fascist”.
@@nathanheil8821 That's what D&D were selling with the visuals even though the story wouldn't probably be appropriate to use that term. I believe Alt Shift X was using the term because of the iconography that D&D were shoving down our throats.
@@nathanheil8821 did you not watch the last season?
@@nathanheil8821 her speech about heads rolling in front of her army while all dressed in black is where that comes from
I like to think that Arthur knew he and Ned were on the same side. And as you said, Rhaegar trusted Arthur with all his knowledge and obsession with Azhor Azhai. I think Arthur allowed Ned to defeat him, realizing in that moment that he was the bleeding star, and he allowed himself to die knowing that Ned would protect the baby like Rhaegar would want.
This is it
ooh, i like the idea that he realized he was a part of the prophecy. gives more weight to his death and autonomy.
@@aud2d2 Regardless, it definitely seems like something is missing with regards to Dayne and his death.
Since I wrote this comment I’ve actually read the books and one thing I can say is that, on a meta-textual level, Dayne and the other kingsguard represent a lot to Jaime’s character arc. Dayne dying for no other reason than his honor, despite seeming stupid of him, actually means an incredible amount to Jaime who just couldn’t live up to that impossible standard. To that end, I could imagine that maybe there isn’t some great secret that explains it all neatly.
25 mins of alt shift x.
Feels good to be back
25 minutes of Alt Shift X better than 400 minutes of season 8
Agreed
@@Dylan-em1zc One would think that is an exaggeration but it's not. These 25 mins felt more magical and more "right" than the entirety of S8.
Better than all of season 8😆😆😆😆....(seriously)
Everytime I see one of these videos I can see why George can't finish the books. He's written the most intricate world I've ever heard of and now he's got to finish it off and tie everything he's written together.
This world is simplistic compared to J.R.R. Tolkien's world.
The guy's probably just burned out.
@@rodrikforrester6989 I believe it too
He can do it man! *hopeful smile and single tear emoji that doesn’t exist*.
@@Dee-nonamnamrson8718 not really ASOIAF goes a lot deeper into the minuteau of the world than LOTR
Correct me if I'm wrong
But there's this one black dragon called "The Cannibal" during the dance of dragons, and there are some theories that he's from a different lineage of dragons and was in Dragon Stone even before the Targaryens came to Westeros, and no one knows what happened to him, he just disappeared
So that might add up to the whole ancient dragon Lords thing here
I think he died in the Dance of Dragons in Fire and Blood, when Aegon II recaptured dragon stone.
@@barty116 the cannibal goes missing after the dance. the narrator mentions rumors of what happened to them but nothing is confirmed.
Does seem like a "and then they lived as hermits and died" ending. But again it was just a rumor of a beast.
One of dany's bloodriders comes across a dragon carcass when she sends them out, before they get to Qarth. I imagined that was the missing dragon.
@@barty116 No that is Grey Ghost that Sunfyre killed not Cannibal.
In a fight between those Sunfyre would straight up lose and get eaten by the Cannibal
@@gerardjagroo Right. And there was also another dragon called sheepthief or something (Im just translating the name)
And that dragon got a rider in dance of dragons too (some bastard girl) but when Rhenyra Targaryen ordered for her to be killed, she fled with her dragon, was once seen in the mouintains near the bloodgate and never since. Once they fly to Essos you can never guess what happens. And the dragon in the desert, it could be another one even distinct from the Cannibal or sheepthief. Just remember Valyria was full of dragons and there might have been other decents of them
5:49 he never thinks about her, but there is one scene in an early Catelyn chapter where she brings up Ashara and Ned very quickly changes the subject and refuses to talk about her at all, very suspiciously.
Ned is too honourable to the point he's not flexible man. I think ned would've still felt visibly guilty if he was the one who played with Ashara's feelings. I think he changed the topic because he probably felt second hand guilt because it's very likely that it was his brother Brandon who broke her heart. Brandon is described as a Playboy and kinda selfish since he "takes what he wants" right. I mean if I ever got to know my brother is somehow related to someone killing themselves and that too for his own decisions, then I'd feel terrible and second hand guilt too
The Westeros equivalent of Storm Area 51; storm Howland Reed's basement where he's hiding Maege Mormont, Jon Snows birth cert, Ashara Dayne, who got with who at Harrenhall and Half Life 3
Half-Life 3 got me.
Luke Wiseman it’s literally the Area 51 of hidden lore and secrets
Luke Wiseman I think the equivalent is: Storm Greywater Watch.
"Storm the Wall, they can't stop all of us!"
- Mance Rayder
Game of Throne has became a joke in the beginning it was something everyone used to respect now it’s a joke and it’s worthless as storytelling
GRRM has a talent for names. Ashara is just a gorgeous word to say and hear.
Umm...but...Dickon ??🤣🤔
You do have a point. 🤣
eoe123321 then he should have used more of real world names. He used William and Duncan, Ned, Garald Jamie and he should haves used Henry and Louis and Alexander. These names are common in Europe
Nothing compares to the poetry of
*NIMBLE DICK CRABB*
@@Brandonhayhew Pretty sure he doesn't considering his stories pre-date 'online fantasy name generators" - that said, I always thought "Ashara" was an actually, real-world name.
The name Arthur Dayne is also very similar to the realm of Arthedain in the Kingdom of Arnor in Lord of the Rings which could be a reference to heroic fantasy.
It's absolutely WILD to imagine that Arthur was so deeply convinced of Rhaegar's prophecy that he knew from the begining that he HAD to die while Lyanna gave birth to fulfill it, and accepted and walked right into it anyways, letting Ned kill him.
Absolutely the finest knight who ever lived.
Could you imagine the reaction if R+L = J was just a red herring concocted by Martin because John is really Ned and Ashara's child? Part Dayne and most likely worthy of Dawn.
That would be the biggest, greatest, "OH MY GOD!" and kinda troll plot twist to witness.
lmao the old switcheroo
Hornyshark
Yeah, but then why would he lie and claim Wylla is the mother? Surely, Jon being Ashara’s child would not expose him to the same level of danger as he would being Rhaegar’s child. There would be no need to lie.
Hornyshark - It is if he doesn’t end up on the throne
@@jonbartolo8067 if true probably couldn't bear with the disgrace of indirectly causing kinslaying. You killed your brother in law and your child's murder.
*Damn, I actually miss these GoT related videos man :(*
Don't you mean asoiaf videos?
yeaah some of the channels covered doom patrol for a lil then a few other random shows
*ActulalylylyII*
Better than the show
A lot of the GoT/asoiaf channels have really been struggling since the show ended so shitty
Something I might add is that Daenerys dreams of kings with opal eyes, tourmaline eyes, amethyst eyes and jade eyes. These are all the stones of some previous Great Empire of the Dawn emperors/empress. So yeah, there's a possibility they are Daenerys and Jon's ancestors. I love your analysis by the way !
The words of Darkstars house... CRAWLING IN MY SKIN
I nearly choked on my dinner reading this comment. Of course I’d die laughing at a goddamn joke with that song
CRAWWWWWWWLLLL
CONFUSING WHAT IS REAL
"Unlike Ned, Brandon had a reputation as a fuckboy." Lmfaoooo 😭
I’m literally scrolling through the comments looking for this😂
Bro I died laughing but I knew that somebody commented about this 😂🤣
"he cuts off Myrcella's ear.. it's.. a whole thing." haha
Nina Savoca the comedic timing of the narrator can’t be understated
When u read it there really is no other way to explain it😂
@LeadFaun Yeah agreed, Doran only tells Arriene that DarkStar cut off Myrcella's ear. No one actually ever sees him do it. To be fair he could've done it, yet Doran could equally be lying for all we know
@@temptationofmemories doesn´t her ear get cut during the escape plot? Isn´t that aery´s pov? we should be able to see if darkstar was there
i feel like im misremembering so much
Maria Fernandez it’s Arianne’s POV, she isn’t looking at Myrcella the moment it happens.
The Daynes and the Hightowers... two noble houses I can’t wait to read more of.
“Sword of the Evening “ sounds like a porn parody of Game of Thrones.
Alt shif x already did an analysis about the got porn parody and its called game of bones...and its as usual amazing
Dawn was forged from the “heart” of a fallen star. Nissa Nissa may very well be an analogy for that fallen star.
Do you know Dave Beers' (known as LML online) interpretation of these symbols? He's got a podcast and a youtube channel dedicated to symbolism in the books. Stars and meteors are all over the place.
Nah to me that doesnt make sense if he followed a falling star to where starfall is if it's a woman.
D&D like this idea... NOT.
Igor Mokin Nope, but I’ll definitely check it out!
I thought the sword was plunged into nissa nissa's heart. So the sword had to of existed before nissa nissa died.
I can't believe, that "A Dance With Dragons" is aready nine years old.
8 not 9
@Zyz zyz This series will never be finished. Brace this fact man :(
@pyropulse If GRRM really does die before he published the finals books he should have a plot and an overview for the rest of the story and have someone he trusts finish it for him.
He already said that he has done that (given notes to others to finish).
Rhaegar didn’t believe his child with Lyanna would be Azor Ahai. He thought the Aegon he had with Elia was the Prince that was Promised and that the child he had with Lyanna would be a girl- his Visenya.
I can’t imagine how he would have reacted had they all lived since he’s sort of dead set on his prophecies. I feel like the whole Lyanna and Rhaegar debacle is romanticised when I feel like it’s a lot darker. I mean in her final days she was confined like a prisoner in the tower of Joy. And since GRRM loves his irony I imagine she felt anything but Joy in that Tower.
So if Lyanna didn’t give him his Visenya he may have discarded her or found someone else to give him his Visenya. I feel like he’s a whole lot more than the ‘perfect prince’ everyone imagines him to be.
Yeah I completely agree that Rhaegar is way more fucked up then the perfect prince appearance the narrative pushes. Because do keep in mind, he just straight up abandoned his wife and kids. These 2 other kids who were supposedly extra important to his prophecy, he just up and left with no protection, and that's with him being the one who ends up escalating the situation to war. And let's also not forget that, whilst he was 27 years old, Lyanna was just 15. So the whole idea of "oh he didn't kidnap her, they were in love" just comes across even more creepy. He groomed and manipulated a 15 year old into being his wife, and abandoned his actual wife and kids just to get with a kid. And yeah, you've hit the nail on the head there, about Lyanna's time in the tower being anything but joyous. I doubt she felt much joy hearing that her running off with this man had gotten her father and brother killed and started a war. Not just that, but surely with how fierce she was, hearing that would've made her speak up, and confirm to the world that it "wasn't kidnapping". Yes, that probably wouldn't have stopped the war, but it's better then nothing, and surely Lyanna wouldn't feel ok with herself just sitting by as the world burned. The only way I can see her staying quiet is if Rhaegar either didn't tell her, or made her stay quiet. The fact that those kingsguard protecting the tower (who were undeniably acting on Rhaegar's orders) didn't let Ned in despite the fact that she was giving birth and needed support, says all you need to know about what kind of situation the tower of joy really was.
@@krishan8735 Huh? Elia was a compromise to bring Dorne back into the Westeros kingdoms. Where did you get the "grooming" from?
@@drippinwet774 I think you're mistaken, friend. Dorne was brought into the realm by Daeron the good marrying a dornish princess, not with Rhaegar marrying Elia. Also, Elia isn't the one I'm claiming was groomed. I'm saying that Rhaegar groomed Lyanna, an impressionable 15 year old, using vague prophecy as a way to isolate her from her family and control her. Like, it cannot be understated that Lyanna was a vunerable 15 year old girl, heavily pregnant and with no support, and yet the king's guard (acting on Rhaegar's orders) still refused to allow Ned to see her, even though it was literally life or death for Lyanna.
@@krishan8735 Not disagreeing with you on most points, but the age differences I like to point to is that Robert wasn't much younger than Rhaegar, Jon Arryn was old enough to be Lysa's grandfather (possibly great), and Walder Frey is.... /shudder. By that math, Rhaegar/Lyanna is pretty normal, and indeed was. It makes sense to look for a younger, healthy woman for child-bearing purposes in the setting of ASOIAF.
you do know that for all of human history in every culture across our world, women were married off in their teenage years yes? That it's only within the last century that ANYBODY thought to change that. I'm not defending this kind of behavior, but it's absurd to apply our modern sensibilities to a high fantasy medieval world as if it's relevant whatsoever. Furthermore, Rhaegar was a true believer in the prophecy, and was charismatic, beautiful, intelligent, and an excellent speaker. It's not a stretch by any means that practically any woman who spent time with him would fall in love with him and willingly do whatever he asked of them. Seems to me like you can't even imagine to think outside of your own perspective. Just bleeting out that he's le ebil groomer as if that summarizes his entire character is intensely idiotic. @@krishan8735
Man, can you imagine what a power couple Ned and Ashara could've been.
Ned did say that he made a lot of mistakes to Cersei, and not being there for Ashara when she needed him most could definitely been one of them. Perfect star-crossed lovers kind of thing!
Nah, Ned was said to be common looking by Cat.
Big Wagon yes but he and Ashara had some romance between them. I believe that Ned married Ashara in front of the old gods, that’s why he married Cat at a sept, as he couldn’t do it in front of his gods
eatass there isn’t sufficient proof to really say that. And Ned was an extremely honorable man, I doubt he would have sex with an woman and not marry her.
Big Wagon I just said I believe he married ashara
Fav edgelord Darkstar quote: "I was weaned on venom, Dalt. Any viper takes a bite of me will rue it."
Adam Stewart I kinda love darkstar what does that meannnnn
@@tombuzzguy It means you are of the night.
His chapters are so fun. It's like having a cheekier version of Viserys back in the plot. Warms my heart. If you gotta get Dawn from point A to point B there are worse ways of doing it.
how anyone talks to him without rolling their eyes and making a jerkoff gesture is unbelievable.
'Crawling in my skin, these wooooouunds will not heal!'
Maybe the Daynes got their eyes and hair from their founder's exposure to the space rock, and maybe the pieces of blackstone across the planet came from a large meteor that broke up in the atmosphere and the pieces hit in different places across the planet, with the piece that became Dawn being a special bit.
No, Targaryens have Valyrian features because Valyria descends from The Great Empire of the Dawn, and the Dayne's also descend from thr GEotD
Season 8 showrunners: wow that sounds cool, someone should make that "Song of Ice and Fire" thing into a show!
"Arya pulling a sneaky on the Night King." Gold.
Ice = blue
Fire = red
Red and blue = purple
Im so glad you mentioned the empire of the dawn. Most youtubers don't even know about it let alone mention it.
@akeel brown I totally agree! I spent most of last year binge-watching the entire series with closed-captions several times (taking screen prints), reading all the books and official online source material, and taking copious notes to prepare for the Season 8 final exam only to find out Season 8 had nothing to do with any of the study material because they made it all up. Granted GRRM hasn't finished the books yet but he's put out tons of back-story source material that a blind person could follow and come to a completely different outcome than what we were served.
Ice is white
@@dudedude3335it is interpreted by all art and covers as blue in ASOIAF
Holy fuck thats cringe
Fire is yellow/orange and ice is white, dude.
So much effort put into story from a book series that will never be finished
U can never know that shut up ugh
I really like the idea of Ned actually having a romance with Ashara. At the Tourney of Harrenhall, it's mentioned that Ashara danced with Jon Connington, Brandon Stark, Oberyn Martell, Barristan Selmy, and also Ned Stark. All of these guys at this point are extravagant, outgoing, badass warriors and knights of great renown, and there's quiet Ned. He definitely wasn't like the rest of these guys, and maybe Ashara realized that and got interested in him? It would be a great parallel with Catelyn Stark finding the good heart underneath Ned's hard exterior, and maybe Ashara actually got to see the good heart before anyone else did. In regards to Brandon, I hope that he didn't sleep with the girl that his brother fancied, because that's a major bro code violation in all Seven Kingdoms bro. If anything, I could picture his reaction to Ned being interested in a girl to be like how Robert Baratheon would have reacted: "Well, it's about damn time you little shithead!" If anything, it would serve to show how Ned was just as human as the rest of the characters in the story, and would also show how bittersweet Robert's Rebellion was- Ned and Ashara loved each other, but could never be together because of the world they lived in, and because of the choices others made. It's a perfect star-crossed lovers kind of thing.
Heh "star" crossed lovers
It’s No Nut November
Alt Shift X: *exists*
Well I already lost
High key gay
same
no homo
@@oldboy117 saying no homo makes it seem even gayer than not saying it.
@@lordodysseus I don't care what it seems to you like, by saying it I guarantee the non-gayness of my actions whatever they may be
@@oldboy117 NO CAP!
I love how your theories are better written that the last seasons of the show.
"Men call me Darkstar, and I am the terror that flaps in the night"
The Bloodstone Emperor IS Azor Ahai! OMG!
He used a sword made from the black stone he worshiped to kill his sister (Nissa Nissa?) as a blood sacrifice since she had kings blood!
This dark magic might have triggered the long night or the timing might be a coincidence. Either way, he had a magic sword and the dead are rising, threatening his newly established reign. Azor Ahai might not have been a great hero if this is true and just another mad king fighting something that was a threat to his power!
That seems like something George RR Martin would do, flipping our expectations, since he's know to hate the typical good vs evil trope. An evil King saving the world from the Others for selfish reasons? Yeah, the story of Azor Ahai ain't no tragic romantic tale, it's a story of a jealous younger brother killing his elder sister and anything else in his way to being the Emporer!
Tell me you cant see Martin pulling something like this? :)
Holy shit
I totally could. There are other theorist that agree that Azor Ahai might've been a villain, David Lightbringer as well
I like the idea that the others are not actually evil more like a force of nature.
And the real Azor Ahai myth is just a cover up from some peace treaty that was made.
And the Wall is actually to keep humans out not keep the others in.
I don't think Azor Ahai or Bloodstone emperor were real people in the books. Everything religion says is a lie or just a very simplified version of what has really happened.
I was afraid that you guys were going to stop doing these. Thank you for keeping it up!
Favorite Gerold Dayne quote has to be “Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night” because it’s so over-the-top
rebellegrrl It’s very emo-Batman.
The GOT reboot in 20 years is going to slap
In the show Ned tells Robert his bastards mothers name in “wylla”
Also I wanted to see more of Edric when I was first introduced to him. So changing things is unfortunate
There's a theory that, secretly, "Wylla" Manderly is Jon Snow's twin sister
Wylla and Jon are the same age, she dyes her hair green(but it was shown her real hair color is light blonde), and her personality is alot like Lyanna(or Arya)
More and more I'm convinced that removing the time skip is the cause of every problem with ASOIAF
Thinking the exact same thing
Fernando Giubilei maybe you should re-read the series then. This is an incorrect take.
Buraku or you could be specific in what you mean instead of disagreeing in the vaguest way possible
yea. its the reason he''s stuck and doesnt know where to go.
The problem is actually the shit writing lol. Lovely world building, no planning and no plans.
"She's my queen >:( !!"
"I don't want it :("
Jon Snow, Season 8
He never said that he said
"She's ma qween" and
"I dun wanit"
Yh so why did the show bother to highlight the placement of the sword if it didnt mean shit in the end 🤷🏻♂️ even if he didnt "want" it, there was no reveal or mention of it ever again 🤔
Thanks for restoring my love for A Song of Ice and Fire after that horrible show took it away! I've read the books so many years ago and with each season of GoT and each year Martin delayed his next book my interest gradually died down. Thank you for reminding me of the complex storylines, the myths and the pure magic of the books. I even learned a lot of new things in your videos. Thanks for all the hard work and time that goes into your videos. This level of quality is insane! Keep up the good work :)
The amount of detail in your videos is amazing. And I think it's called Sword of the Morning because it finally brought morning from the long night.
This is one of my favourite theories, and one that I came up with when I read the books too.
There's only one thing I'd add though. I do not believe Azor Ahai was a Dayne, but I believe Nissa Nissa was. Azor Ahai plunges Lightbringer through her heart to forge it. While Dawn is forged from the heart of a fallen star. And the sigil of house Dayne is a fallen star. Azor Ahai plunged his sword through the heart of a Dayne to forge Dawn.
Also, I believe the Daynes live with Dawn in Dorne because that is simply as far away from the "night" as possible. To safeguard the sword, and make sure it doesn't fall into the wrong hands.
Oh, it's quite interesting to bring that up !
This will be played out with Jon killing Dany with dawn. The literal blood of the dragon will ignite light bringer
Eddard did think about Ashara in book 1. He remembered Catelyn accusing him of fathering Jon by her. And the way he responded to Catelyn could be read as suggesting that there's an old emotional wound there.
It's possible that Brandon fathered Ashara's stillborn child, or that Ned did, or neither. It's possible Ned loved her, and it's possible he didn't. But the fact that Ned's inner monologue in GOT never outright says, "I love Ashara Dayne," is not evidence against - nowhere in the text did Ned think to himself, "Jon is Rhaegar's son," either, because the author is willfully withholding that information from the reader.
He only had Ashara in mind because his wife mentioned her as a possible mother of Jon Snow. Ned Stark, being an honourable man, was not prepared to countenance rumours that cast aspersions on an innocent woman. Given the guilt he carries over Lyanna and broken promises it is inconceivable that he had loved and abandoned Ashara and never thought about her. In fact it is known that Ashara had a relationship with Howland Reed, not any Stark, and is in fact the mother of Meera and Jojen. It is known.
@Wolf This lays it all out pretty well: czcams.com/video/lKH_SVFYFAs/video.html
Cat remembers that, not Ned
Pretty sure that was in a Catelyn POV chapter were it flashed back to her asking about Ashara, not a Ned POV chapter. So he really didn’t think about her in that book.
@@noneofyourbeeswax01 Ashara and Howland is not a fact at all. In fact, there’s less textual evidence for that theory than Ned and Ashara.
There is nothing in the books to suggest that Ashara might have fallen in love with Howland Reed. It is always a Stark with whom she's associated with, especially with Ned. Even if I reread it multiple times I'm not going to find a clue which might suggest otherwise.
Moreover Ashara being Jyana makes no sense at all, both as a plot point and in consistent storytelling. Why would Ashara fake her suicide then? Why the need for all that secrecy that her own family doesn't know the truth about it? Why do the Reed children look nothing like their Dayne side? It's not like Reed traits are so strong like the Baratheon traits. Lastly why Howland? No one in Westeros thinks that way? It is not even a rumour. And even if it is true the plot point is not going to progress the story any further that way. So it makes no sense and has virtually no possibility of happening.
Gerold Dayne "Darkstar" is in one chapter of the books and I hope to read more about him in Winds of Winter...
Strong agree, bro! 🤜💥🤛
There’s a Mayan myth about the Morning Star and Evening Star. How the former star came first but was over shown by the Evening One who became the more prevalent and beloved. It references the Venus and Sun cycles observed from the Earth. Perhaps it explains the back story of the house Dayne. They might have been the first people to migrate to Westeros from the Valyria, before the Targaryens. Star of the Morning (Morning Star), the purple eyes, Cannibal, The black dragon lineage. Why not
But a Sword of the Evening already exists in the books - Vorian Dayne, the last king of Starfall
If Alt Shift X keeps posting videos then I can like Game Of Thrones again
No, you can still dislike Game of Thrones. Rather, shift your allegiance to A Song of Ice and Fire.
The Kings D&D are Dead. Long Live King George!
4:01 Common misconception, but Robert didn't start the rebellion, Jon Arryn did. It's called Robert's Rebellion because Robert had the best claim to the throne, seeing how he had a Targaryen grandmother, but Jon Arryn first raised his banners in defiance of Aerys II.'s orders to bring him the heads of Ned Stark and Robert Baratheon.
Sorry, nerd broke through, carry on!
That's why I was so pissed when they said in the show that the rebellion was based on a lie, they didn't started it because reghar kidnapped lyanna
Robert had the best claim to the throne but not because of his grand mother because of his ancestor Orys Baratheon was the bastard brother of Aegon the Conquerer. I guess that is the why.
@@yasinensiz1412 nah it was because of his grandmother. Orys had claim to nothing. It was a conquest and he received storms end for it.
It was actually Littlefinger, he started the rumour that Lyanna Stark was kidnapped by Rahegar. Brandon Stark wasn’t as cool headed as Ned and Littlefinger knew that he’d do something as stupid as to go South and make demands of the Mad King!
@Wolf Yeah and Arya is about 10-11, @ 15 Littlefinger was more than capable as is John when he joins the Nights Watch @ 14 and Jamie being Knighted and joining the Kings guard @ 17
Another reason I think Dawn is Lightbringer is that "Lucifer" in Latin means lightbringer, and Lucifer was a fallen angel, like a fallen star. Something else in support of your theory is that Nissa Nissa is very similar to Mhysa.
I havent read the books at all.
I for some reason aslways though Arthur Dayne was officially Arthur Dayne of the Morningstar. I dont know where i got that but though it for years.
Lucifer brings the light, he gave man knowledge and wisdom, something god wanted for himself.
Arthur Dayne is without a doubt my favorite secondary character in ASOIAF. Some of the best fanfics I have read are an AU where he survives and raises Jon/Aemon either in Winterfell posing as Neds bastard or hiding in Essos until he comes of age to return as Rhaegars son coming to take back Westeros.
Any recomendations for Arthur fan fic fix?
@@LusiaEyre +1
The Tower of Joy sequence from Ned's fever dreams was written so beautifully. I think that's one of the main reasons why Arthur Dayne became so memorable and a fan favorite
this just makes me more depressed about how the show ended. i'll forever be salty about that.
Agreed. The story of our generation that was ruined in the most public way possible. It hurt
Tell me you’re joking
I don't know about that. I've reached a point where I don't care about the show at all. The only thing which depresses me is that we may never get A Dream of Spring.
@eoe123321 Even if it isn't, it will always be better than the show.
@Cats in Cars ... no not kidding. If you were depressed over it I wanna know what emotional need did this fictional story fulfill in your life that made it throw off your mental health
Arthur Dayne was always my favourite character, theres just so much to him in the books, and when you see him in the show he's so well acted. Such an amazing character.
On the note of Arthurian associations, the name "Tower of Joy" is most likely a nod to the Joyous Gard Castle in arthurian myth, a place which served as a refuge for Tristan and Yseult but also for Lancelot and Guinevere. I believe that the Lyanna Stark and Aegon Targaryen story finds its roots in both.
A reason Ashara Dayne didn't die, the name, 'Ashera', means, 'she who walks on the sea', not, 'she who sinks into the sea', so it's likely Ashara didn't drown but walked away using the sea. 'Ashera' also seems to be a Sumerian mother goddess to many gods and goddesses, so Ashara might play a maternal role to the new wave of heroes in ASOIAF. EDIT Though there's also a really upsetting side to Ashara's name. It's very similar to the name meaning of Morgana, which means 'circling sea' or 'bright sea dweller'. Morgana as in Morgana Le Fay, who had an incestuous relationship with her brother, King Arthur, producing Mordred, who tore apart the realm (some people even use footage of Morgana from the Merlin show for Ashara in fan made music videos). Did Ashara Dayne have an incestuous relationship with Ser Arthur Dayne and that was the child? Even if Ashara didn't have a child by her brother, what if her child is someone who will sow chaos in the Seven Kingdoms? What if Young Griff, aka, Aegon Targaryen/Blackfyre is the child of Ashara Dayne, like Mordred seeking to conquer the land of his parents? Ashara also seems similar to the Asura, the Vedic rebellious beings who cause discord for the gods. Mind you, if George goes off of older myths, Morgana and Arthur were not incestuous and Mordred was considered one of Arthur's noblest men, even dying beside him in Arthur's last battle. Morgana was one of the most desired women of Arthurian lore, later myths have fan-coupling with her because she was so desired for pairing with other heroes. So maybe Ashara is based on that older, nobler aspect of Morgana, the kind that took Arthur to Avalon to be healed. Maybe Ashara will heal Jon in a similar way.
Also the Dayne sigil is very similar to the Santiago de Compostela sigil: A shooting star and a sword like cross. Also the city is the capital of Galicia, the NW region of Spain, separated by mountains, as the Torrentine valley is at NW Dorne, separated by the Red Mountains from the rest of Dorne. Compostela comes from Campus Stelae in Latin, and it means Field of the Star. It a very important pilgrimage site (the Way of St. James). The origin of the legend of the Apostol Santiago (St. James) is clouded in mistery, with the trials for heresy of Prisciliano in the early middle ages, something about mixing celtic lore into christianity, with some Anti-christ connotations (and Lucifer means Lightbringer). The legend says something about the Apostol arriving at the Ría de Arousa (a bay similar to the Torrentine bay, with an island at its center just like Starfall), doing some stuff, and being buried at the Campus Stellae (similar location to High Hermitage). Also in Galicia is A Coruña, where the oldest lighthouse that worked continuously in the world is located: the Tower of Hercules, built by the Romans and named back then Farum Brigantium, and it reminds me of the Hightower, in the oldest settlement of Westeros. Why not?
Interesting. I have always thought Dorne is loosely based on Spain.
@@willmosse3684 It is.
@@willmosse3684 The show's scenes were shot there as well.
As someone who loves the Arianne - Myrcella story line, I'm really glad you made this vid
Note: you marked an area for the Empire of the Dawn, but all indications point to it being centered around Ashai, included the north of Sothoryos, Oldtown (just a fort at the time) and likely even the now corrupted shadow-lands. And no, they didn't move into Westeros after the long-night to make the fort, the Hightowers are said to have lived there before the First Men came, making the Hightowers and the Daynes are the most ancient people of Westeros.
maybe they migrated from west of westros
Martells are pretty ancient too. They're probably not as old as First men or Andals (not sure) but they're definitely older than Rhoynars.
Been watching you for years. Always so very insightful. Absolutely well done!
Simplest yet edgy quote “men call me darkstar, I am of the night.”
"A sword of the evening to rival the sword of the morning"
Can't believe you didn't say sword of the night
I like to believe everything that Dorkstar owns is "...of the night".
Night king be like what's my Ice sword then🐧
You convinced me to sign up for audible and make my way through the books. Love it
Prince Rhaegar knew his son would be Azor Ahai along with two siblings but what he didn't know is those siblings that will help Jon Snow wouldn't be his own children, as it is what Jon Snow believes to be his brother (Bran Stark) and his sister (Arya Stark) so shoutout Ned Stark for being MVP
Did he even "rename" the sword? Or is it just a different translation of the same name.
What is Dawn afterall than The Bringing Of The Daylight.
ooo yes I love this idea. There is issues with changes of translations from languages and other cultures in real history, some have caused misinterpretations or misunderstandings of meanings that are passed on for generations while the original meaning is lost.
I need these videos to make me care again. I'm trying to heal the scars of seasons 5-8.
Same.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought season 5 onwards was rotten. It seems that everyone loved 5-7 and then realized at 8 how terrible things have gotten.
I need more discussion about ASOIAF to cure my soul.
@@YaowBucketHEAD 8 was the worst with 5 in close second.
@eoe123321 it just felt like a fanfic. I wonder if D&D just spent an afternoon on the internet, copied a bunch of (really bad) fan theories and called it a day.
Throwing Stannis away killed me.
But, when Arya and Sansa "outsmarted" Littlefinger, I wanted to vomit.
The "villians" are what made this show excellent. They made things interesting.
Instead we get Jon Snow as the savior of mankind and the Others as the "bad guys" who must be stopped at all costs! For Westeros and for the love of Jon "Targareyen" and his really angry Aunt!
At least Tywin's death seemed "natural". He really fucked over Tyrion and got caught with his pants down.
I gave up after season 7, or maybe 6? but I happened to catch an episode of season 8 where Arya used her "quick wits and training" to defeat the Night King, and I was like, "yeap. I won't be finishing this show".
It felt like a popularity contest. The typical cookie cutter "good guy" characters survived while the interesting and complex characters were hastily gotten rid of. Gotta keep it suitable for the masses I suppose.
Oh well. I'll stick to the books. Hopefully GRRM is making some progress. 😕
YaowBucketHEAD - if the later seasons were based on fan theories, they would have been better. The problem is, they written by D&D with no input from people who actually cared or payed attention.
I can’t wait for George to tell us that the motto to House Dayne is Lightbringer 😭😭😭
man your videos never feels long. amazing work also incredible art work here
thanks for reminding me that the real story is in the books and the books hasn't ended yet. There' still hope for a great ending.
Me: Saturday? Meh whatever
Alt Shift X: *Post*
Me: Living my best life now
VM. Great video.. don't know how I missed this one. Like etc, thanks for what you do. These videos are of the highest level of of quality and it shows that you spend time on them. Cheers! And here's to winds of winter!
Brandon being a fuck boi is the most accurate assessment ever besides Robert being the most accurate depiction of a chad and a chads life cycle lol
Alt shift x is a light in a time of post season 8 darkness
It's good to hear the voice again
He truly is the new Azor Ahai
You can say we are currently in the long night