When Fuel Injection Fails It's Time for the Carb
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- čas přidán 13. 07. 2024
- Failing Harley fuel injection especially on pre 2002 models is pretty common, the old Magneti Marelli has some issues but you do have options. Harley's first fuel injected models started in 1995 with Magneti Marelli and this system was used through 2001 when in the 2002 model year Harley switched to the much more reliable Delphi system. So before you buy a 2001 or earlier fuel injected Harley you'll want to know what you're getting into. These early systems have issues, problems are hard to diagnose, tuning for performance isn't really an option. Fortunately you have a couple options, you can convert to a new Delphi injection system or even convert the bike back over to a carburetor.
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Have you converted your fuel injected Evo over to a carburetor, the new Delphi setup or still running the old Mag system?
My buddy converted his 01 twin cam bagger to carburetor.. it was relatively simple... there's companies who make kits to get rid of the fuel injection system and run carburetor on all year twin cam engines
Went to a stock CV carb.Gas mileage went from 28mpg to 50 mpg.
I converted to a SE CV44 on a 99 Ultra and works great as I'm running woods 5 with worked heads. It sounds nasty and pulls like freight train. Thunder heart conversion for a Twin Cam worked well for me
Wood cams are awesome, they do sound mean as hell on the carb bikes!
I have just converted a friends -97 roadking to carb. I simple cut all the wires not needed and put on a mikuni carb and dyna 2000i ignition with a new coil. The bike now runs great.
13:34 I’m a carb guy and recently bought an 03 FI Road King.
I also bought an all inclusive conversion kit from Broken Sprocket Garage to do the carb conversion.
Although the Delphi system is working fine, I’ve noticed that some parts are no longer available and I prefer to be proactive rather than reactive.
I’ll continue to ride it until next fall/winter when I intend to just do the conversion.
Thanks for putting up this vid as well as all your others.
Switched my 98 Electra glide classic over to carburetor. Pangel kit for the tank, forward facing petcock, CV40 carb, Intake and gasket, PVC crossover tube "for the head breathers", and Daytona twin tech ignition with the single fire coil. Hardest thing to locate was the breather backing plate. Ignition came with instructions. you'll need to replace the rotor bug from a single window to the dual window. Won't be able to static time the system. Didn't need anything from a harness. The only thing that didn't work when I fired it up was the tach. Just had to locate that wire and boom done. My oil pressure gauge, and fuel gauge all worked like they should. Removed all the extra wiring for the EFI, with no issues. Runs like a champ, just road it to Lake Charles, LA and back 1500miles without any mechanical issues. Have about 5k now still good.
That's awesome! You did everything right there!
Good job! That was still a big job
Great video. And yes converting to carb of Delphi is always a nice option. But for those who still are running the MM system I do have a few tips and tricks to help solve some of the main problems with them. I've been tuning harleys from flat heads to current M8 models for 18+ years. And have used every carb and efi system out there (including all the different flash tuners, replacement ECM and piggyback systems out there) so off the bat I yes I have a good grasp on these things. The first thing you have to remember is that the MM system is VERY basic in its workings. Most of the time if the ecm itself is fine its usually something basic wrong with them. Idle problems usually being the most common. Here are the most common issues I run into with the MM 1. Intake seals, If you have ever removed the throttle body for an MM bike you will see that the fitment of the manifold between the heads is very loose, more so on the EVO bikes. James makes a intake seal to replace the standard 26995-86B with a seal that covers the end of the manifold like a hat. this makes the manifold wider for a tighter seal. This is a must for these if you are replacing them. I used them for the first time back 2002 and I always use them now. Leaking intake seals give the engine somewhere else to draw air in. And like i said these are a very simple and basic EFI. Both cold and hot idles use manual screw settings like a carburetor and don't have the ability to chase idle. 2. Lately I have had several MM bikes that came in running, But running like total crap. After checking and in tern replacing the leaking intake seals, idles improved but there was something else not quite right. Some did have multiple ECM codes, others did not. Each one was fixed by replacing the system and EFI relays. Due to the age of the them the contacts inside have seen a better day. And again being a simple system, unlike modern EFI systems, when the detect low voltage they shutdown to protect themselves, MM don't. They will still try to run and with the low voltage they can not supply both sensors and injectors with proper operating voltage. I have also found myself changing them on later Delphi bikes, mostly the main 30 or 40 amp main breaker. 3. Injector Wires. This applies to the MM and the early Delphi systems. When the bikes are made Harley uses the GIVE THEM JUST ENOUGH WIRE mentality. Both on the MM and early Delphi (PRE 2006) the wires are quite tight. Over time the up and down motion of the engine can cause the copper wire inside to brake. and once that last copper strand breaks it becomes a big Buell Blast. The outside of the wire will look fine but once removed from the injector you'll find it to be a limp noodle usually right at the connector. Adding a inch to the wires with new connector pins fixes it right up. 4. Crank and Cam position sensors. A good rule of thumb is if you are still running the stock cam and crank sensors, you should change them on principle. Mainly the crank position sensor. The crank sensor is the ECM's eyes and is how it calculates the engine's rotational position. If it can't see, it can't run. But most importantly the stock sensors for both MM and some early Delphi, the end of the sensor closest to the crank has and exposed metal point on it directly attached the mile long angle hair coil winding. If the piece comes loose you'll have all that winding in your crank bearings and then your bottomend is porked. Harley revised the sensors to be enclosed with both the replacement and later sensors to avoid this problem. 5. Engine temp sensor and wires. Now I've change lots and I mean lots of engine temp sensors on MM to present bikes. But with the MM they can really make your day suck. Being a very simple system they use the engine temp data for most of it operation. If you have a MM that runs well then as your riding falls on it's face hard, and after setting for a bit the bike run fine again, it's probably the engine temp sensor. The wires can also suffer from the aforementioned just long enough problem. And remember, broken wires will trip an ecm code. Bad sensor may not. As long as the reading from the sensor are within operational range it won't trip a code. Think of it like this. Running down the road hot you'll be around 240 Deg F. Now all of the sudden the ecm thinks its now at -10 deg F. Thinking the bike is in a block of ice the ecm adjust fuel and timing for that temp. But because it' still in its operational range it didn't trip a code. Delphi is worlds smarter and can usually see a massive and fast temp drop and throw a code. Those are most of the main issues I deal with when it comes to the MM system. I'm not saying don't upgrade to a Delphi replacement or carbing the bike, but it can be an expensive upgrade that alot of my customer can't afford. The MM system does have its limitations, I would NEVER throw a 124in Crate engine behind it hoping to make it run. But I have done both 95 in and 103 in kits with 105+ HP & TRQ and made them run great. Use of a Powercommander or a Techno Research Directlink flashing tool (Like a Race Tuner, Powervision, TTS but for the MM) will have to be used but there is still life left in the old MM bikes for those who are on a budget. And please use premium fuel. With the trash fuel we are stuck with today, I run 93 in my push mower. The buck or two you might spend at the pump is well worth the better running of the bike. :)
My God..after reading thru your comment on the MM..I really want to be shed of this convoluted mess..I think it would be easier to send a man to Mars ,than to figure out wtf is wrong now!..I've had to replace the stock fuel lines..HD wanted $600 plus..I went with Good ridge $200 J&P..My mileages 30 to 25. And the fact that HD doesn't have a mechanic that knows anything about MM..
That was excellent explanation on the MM system and it's issues. At the end of day unless you got a guy like that it's easier to do a carb swap.
Dang I would say you know about all there is to know about the MM system, it wasn't a bad system it just had it's limitations. It's hard to find someone today at a dealer that can actually work on them anymore, most dealers won't touch them.
do you have a shop or work where someone can bring the bike
Plz advice I have 01 RK 88 cubic inch with the MM it back fires when I let off the throttle???
You just help me make the decision to sell, and cut my losses. I was lucky, 100k on the bike with no problems until now. Thanks for the video!
I got rid of it on my 2002 RK. I'm running a Ramjet one piece intake and a Mikuni 42mm flat slide. I'm running a Thunderheart ignition that works with the stock crank sensor. I used a Pingle petcock kit for the injected gas tank. I love it. No more pain in the ass fuel filter in the gas tank. And I now have reserve.
I threw my Magneti Merrelli EFI in the trash about 8 years ago and my Evo has never ran better. Did all the work myself and purchased everything I needed to do the conversion. 55 mpg and runs FANTASTIC
That's impressive with a carb! You got it dialed in right!
@@GixxerFoo here's my bike, I have 2 of these bikes. One is an "95th Anniversary Edition" and the other is a "Standard".
czcams.com/video/eIohnw2glPk/video.html
@@GixxerFoo here's my "Standard". These 1998 Road Glides are very hard to find. Bought this on eBay for $4,000. It was totally neglected and barely ran when I purchased it. Had 1/2" of dust on it and leaked oil from every seal.
czcams.com/video/ayGsiiR-gTY/video.html
@@GixxerFoo i run stock jetting and mufflers. Best bike ive ever owned. 145,000 miles and going strong. My old Mag EFI got stuck in WOT once and I was forced to ride it home like that and used the on off switch to control the inputs, 45 miles like that! Once I got on interstate 95S and let it eat WOT all the way home to Jacksonville. The next day I yanked everything and have never been happier
Where did you find all the stuff you needed to fix it
What’s really fun is when my 2011 Ultra limited starts running very badly after about 25 miles of riding and take it to the dealership for repair. Then after they change fuel pump assembly, ECM, O2 sensors, Throttlebody assembly and they tell you it’s the wiring to the “Map sensor” connector. That’s not a serviceable part and requires a wiring harness replacement on the bike.
I would go with the Mikuni HSR42…it’s an excellent Carb, never let me down !
I just got myself a 'new to me' bike, not a Harley. But, fully carbureted, air cooled, and for exactly the reasons you talked about. I didn't ever want to be stuck on the side of the road with a computer/injector/sensor problem. I can live with the complications of old school far easier than I can live with the complications of trying to figure out what's wrong with a fuel injected system. I can fix a carb, I can't fix a computer controller.
Staying with my Linkert M74 B its a controlled gas leak !
You are 100 % correct on fuel injection ,when its running its great ,when it acts up ,its a nightmare .
A couple guys at the track with EFI sportsters had extensive work ( more than stage 4 ) and were still getting killed by carb sportsters in a strict rule 1230cc max class.
They switched over to S&S E & dropped 1/2 second in the 1/8 th.
Since then most of the class has switched to Alcohol S&S B carburetor’s
I recently convert my 05 Delphi Deluxe over to HSR42. It couldn't be better, and feels great everytime I ride.
Mikuni is a excellent choice for a conversion from fuel injection, especially if you start having issues with the FI.
im going with the sns b but im still having issues about having to run the wires to cam sensor ive got a 05 wide glide
Gxrfu...you are the MAN! Thank God I have the last '05 carbed bike, a few cheap jets, Andrews 21 cams, and your blessings!
I LIVE in the POWERBAND!!!
I have a 2000 RK Classic.
It came stock with fuel injection.
Started having problems when the bike got the Stage 2 Big Bore kit (95”).
Never seem to get enough fuel and bike would fall flat at about 75/80.
Converted to carburetor
Mukuni HSR 42 with a new RB Racing 2 into 1 exhaust.
Let’s just say that I’m am so pleased I’m beside myself “EVERY” time I ride now.
What a world of difference.
Money well spent and well worth the investment and conversion.
This is a great video for those who still have the MM system. Wish it would have been around in 2004 when mine threw a scrap iron fit. On a trip to the Smoky Mountains. My 99 Ultra would randomly drop the rear cylinder. It would come and go. I can fix most things. But I had zero knowledge of the MM system at the time. Luckily, a technician at the Harley dealer in Ashville NC, helped me get it figured out. His name was Cliff. The guy knew his way around a Harley. He spent pretty much all day on it. But finally found a loose pin inside an injector. This was a bitch to find. But he got it done. Not long after that that TC-88 threw a fit when a cam bearing failed. But, luckily I had warranty on it and HD fixed it. My brother-in-law still has that Ultra with 84k on it.
Damn yeah having something like that go under warranty is when you want it to happen if it does. The MM system is very complicated and parts are hard to find, even harder to find anyone that will mess with it today.
Swapped my 2001 FLHRCI out to carb with a namz harness, dynatek ignition and 40mm cv carb, also put a 95 big bore and a set of 211 cams in it. Still running strong 75k miles
Do you have a number for the namz harness?
First, thanks Gix for your videos. I know you must put in a ton of research on them. Well done! ...... I recently finished a Mag to CV conversion on my low mileage 98 FLHP and couldn't be happier. The M&M rig worked fine. I'm just an old school guy that believes simple is better so I feel better with the carb setup on the road and far away. I simply unplugged all the shit on the EFI harness, Coiled it up neatly and secured it under the left side cover, Took off the throttle body and all the associated crap in the tank. Put in a Pingle petcock with their adapter and plug. I replaced the stock ignition with the Dynatek 2000 stand alone single fire ignition which I only had to cypher out and tap into the the stock ignition feed and in my case the Police tach. Real easy! I found a barely used CV carb that I went through and regasketed. Gathered up the intake and proper filter/breather mount. I replaced the top motor mount to the carb style one (mainly for the VOES and choke cable). Put on a VOES. Got several jets and dialed it all in. The only snafu was getting the right ignition timing cup. It was a fun project. Glad I did it. BTW my buddies 95 FLT has over 60K with the M&M and it's never missed a beat,
That MM injection either works or it don't. Sounds like you did everything exactly the way it should be done. I really appreciate your support on here!
Good timing, I just ordered an EFI to carb conversion for my 06 Springer, can't wait.
Gixxer, as always, this was an excellent segment! I chose to build my custom 95" Softail Twin Cam with a Mikuni 42 and am very satisfied with the results. I debated early on whether to go F.I. or carb so for me a Harley has always been a machine that is carbureted, mean and lean, sounding as well as running great!
Right on! Carbs are a lot easier to work on and setup, especially with a new build!
I have a 2002 FSXTDI. I love the Delphi injection system. I drop an ounce of Lucas injector cleaner in every other tank fill. I bought the bike with V&H Big Shots already on the bike. It still has the stock air filter. My bike has 8500 miles on its clock. It had 3200 when I barn rescued it from a slow corrosion death 7yrs ago, stored near the salt water. I need to find a shop that can do a full inspection and update whatever it needs. I replaced the transmission fluid to full synthetic recently. The original fluid came out clean, and no metal on the magnet. When I open the tensioner cover, I will replace the stock oil pump and chain with an S&S kit.
Hi Gixxerfoo I actually built my bike from the bits that people throw away and after market parts by that I mean I started with second hand 2003 cases dark horse crank with timken bearing conversion a bunch of S&S bits and so on . When it came to the fuel system the obvious choice was a carburettor but instead of having to mess around with wiring to be able to run an original ECU I opted to use a Morris magneto as no wiring required. Additionally it can all be fixed on the side of the road if need be easy to maintain new condenser and points $15 a year and small and fit in my tool roll.
Regards Tim
That's an awesome setup! I love putting a bike together like that, you just got to be patient and pick up parts here and there as you find them.
Love your videos, alot of technical made easy to understand! Great job!
I appreciate that! I don't like engineer speak lol, I worked with a lot of mechanics over the years I just wish I knew what they forgot.
Delphi with just an old Power Commander and no O2 sensors will still give you A LOT more performance options, with simple, modular troubleshooting and near-zero maintenance. It doesn't require reading tea leaves and runes sprinkled in chicken blood to get EXACTLY RIGHT. 99% of carbs were only ever just "close enough", adjusted by shadetree hacks, and they don't even stay that consistent over the years. Meanwhile, in 17 years, I had to replace one injector. Noid light diagnosed it in one step. Bought a used take-off from a wrecked cop bike on ebay for 20 bucks. Couldn't be easier or cheaper. No fiddling and futzing with mixture screws, no dead spots in the power curve, no "COUGH, KA-CHUG" that will make you drop the damn bike in a full-lean low-speed turnaround, no worrying about a fire if it goes down on the right side, no crud building up to clean out every year or so, no issues picking up fuel immediately again if you run it empty, no cold-natured hard starting - and the starter lasts a lot longer because it starts right up, EVERY time. I can change the fuel map with many times more precise and granular values with a USB cable instead of having to pull jets and play trial&error with spark plug temperatures, and If I went with one of the newer fuel mappers that use O2 sensors, all that would be sensed and adjusted about 127 times per second on the fly. There's really no comparison and no need for carburetors at all in a high-performance application anymore.
Those were the good old days!
That fuel injection was a nightmare for me for a few weeks until I finally tossed it in the parts bin and put a carb on it. Best move ever. Been trouble free for 10k miles now.
That's awesome to hear! Those old FI systems are just nearly impossible to fix these days, can't get parts or anything else anymore.
@@GixxerFoo I've been watching a shit ton of your videos to help me understand the workings of my road king. You're a bigger help than you can imagine. Thanks a million
@@mattstanfel1775 Anytime! Just glad I've been able to help out! There's a lot you can do with a Harley especially if you convert back to a carb!
Thanks for all this research! Thankfully for me all the bikes I got are the more modern design! Good to know about all the things you need about older bike hookups though!
Older bikes can be a challenge to make the run right, it takes a little work but it's worth it!
I had actually ran into this problem with my 2001 Ultra back in 2015. I made an appointment with a local bike shop to take out the injection system and replace with a carb, and was going to be happy. Found a better solution, getting a new 2015 Limited as a replacement. Yup, the cost was a bit more, but that new injection system worked so much better than the Magneto Morelli system.... ;)
I was happy with the 2001, as it was bumped up to 95 CI, and ran strong when the injection worked, but sometimes things happen that one would normally never consider.
That zipper delphi conversion is a pretty system, you could actually source parts yourself and add a thundermax if you really had to. The Delphi system was the best thing Harley ever did for those FI systems.
Great video! Great job explaining all of this!
I have a 1996 HD Tour Glide! With a MM. Iv had it for over 2 years and haven't had any issues with it yet. I've added to it is External Breather, removed the Air Box and added a Hi Flow Air Intake. Bike is still riding really good.
They run really well it's just if they start having issues the parts are hard to find and then finding someone capable of tuning it properly.
My 99 RK 20K miles had a fuel line leak..HD has no replacement ..Goodridge from J&P $200..
When HD had available $600...Carb is in my future..With the MM I get 30mpg..wtf
You saved me a bunch of searching, I’ve been thinking about getting rid of mine on my 01
That's awesome! That's exactly why I started doing CZcams was so you didn't have to search all over the place!
I was apprehensive about buying my 03 road king classic. I could have got a standard with a carb but I wanted the classic. Luckily I have had no problems in 70,000 miles 🤞love the channel 👍😎👍
Thank you, I appreciate it! The 03 is a great bike to get with fuel injection, it has the Delphi system which is leaps and bounds over the old mag system.
Another really interesting and detailed report....scares me to think about reading both those wiring schematics and making sense of it all tho......
It's not too bad really, it feels a little weird removing most of the wiring though. Basically converting back to a carb bike which is simpler.
Just think…your Sportster is so reliable you personally don’t have to worry about all these fixes needed for the twin cam and Milwaukee 8!
Sportster is honestly almost a perfect design, about as close as you can get in many ways.
Besides the part about the size being too small, or the suspension being too weak, or the lack of power compared to the big twin, yeah it is basically a perfect bike.
@@XxtractsCycleCo. True! Which bike do you like?
@@XxtractsCycleCo. Being small gives it better handling. Power to weight ratio is more than acceptable and, prior to M8, it outran Big Twins easily, with is 0-60 in 5 seconds. They're kind of a rough ride though.
Hanging on to my carbureted TC-88 02 Electra Glide until it either dies or I do. Now that I rebuilt the cam chest with performance upgrades, I have this bike EXACTLY where I want it now. My friends keep telling me I should trade over for an EFI model which will eliminate jet tweaking at different elevations for long-distance trips but that’s what my GL1800 GoldWing is for.
Awesome video, thank you. Answered a bunch of questions I had
Swapped 3 MM systems out due to performance issues, fuel leaks and no parts available.
I used the Dynatek 2000i on 2 and S&S Hi-4 on the other and used gold rotor cup. Single fire coil on 2 and dual fire on the other. New intake manifolds to support S&S Super E on 2 and CV on the other. Added VOES to each.
Used the EFI harness and eliminated unnecessary circuits. I believe it’s 7 circuits out of 20+ that are used. Don’t recall exactly.
Easy to tune. Saw increased performance, fuel economy and reliability.
Still ride them and enjoy them much more post MM. Would and will do it again it a heartbeat!
Great videos man! Keep it up.
Thanks, will do!
I put a Zippers on my nephews fat boy... Very simple, and really easy set up.. the best part is, the zip self tunes... it's more then worth it.
I just bought a 2000 fat boy..you just gained a prescriber !! Thanks..I own a 75 Shovel..wiring headlight,tailight,coil battery pretty much it..( Kickstart only) now you know why I bought the 2000 fat boy
Lol the electric start makes a huge difference! That Fat Boy has the timken lower end so it's one of the better ones, thank you for the sub!
I did a carb conversation. Took me about 45 mins. I bought the s&s super e kit and a thunder heart stand alone ignition system. It was really simple.
Nice work! It's really not that hard at all, a lot cheaper and more reliable than repairing an older MM system.
@@GixxerFoo yep. Cost about 800-900 from Dennis Kirk. If anyone is interested in doing the same.
@@MrHootenhollerI have couple questions if you’re still around
Thank God my 2000 FXST is carburated! That super E gets her movin😉
I'm running a Mukuni HSR45 carb on mine. works great
Good morning 🌅, GixxerFoo, as you know I have just recently purchased my Deuce, 2003 , I have heard from you and a lot of other people that fuel injection system can be a problem, and as you say when it is running fine, it is good but when it fails, you’re in deep shit,
Like all other electronics , As you know, I purchased my first brand-new deuce back in 2000, and I had spent a lot of money on it, and it was carb, when I was trying to source another bike, I had found quite a few with the fuel injection system on which I did not want, I think it’s cost me some more money. I’ve purchased a carbureted version from the UK. It had a HSR 42 on it, but it had the wrong size jets in it, Chinese shit , it is now all ready for the test, next week, I still have a problem with the alarm system on the bike, I have been looking 👀 for a dough bike, I did have someone come back to me and told me that I should link 2 wires to earth 🌍, 😂 I will wait until winter to see if it works,
Stay safe catch up with you tomorrow, France.
Jesus! I’m glad I’m still carbureted!! Potato potato potato
Fuel injection really changed the sound on Harley's, there's nothing wrong with the carb setup.
@@GixxerFoo EFI satisfies emissions regulations. Certainly nothing to do with good running.
The only benefits to EFI is easy cold starts and smooth running in differing elevations.
Other than that, they are more complicated, too many sensors, electronics and systems in place that can go wrong and leave you stranded. I personally don’t believe (and I’m not saying you said this) that EFI is really beneficial to us riders. But then again, I still run points.
It has it's flaws, but it seems to work better for people today as not nearly as many people work on their own bikes anymore. I like to be able to carry a tool roll and fix damn near anything. Lol that ain't happening with a injection system.
@@GixxerFoo nothing is ever perfect, that’s for certain. But I agree with you, with a carby I can likely fix it in the side of the road. With an EFI issue, call a tow truck.
Basically unless it's like what happens to my wife. Lol she lost a cylinder and l showed up with the truck and ramps. Turned out the connector on the fuel injector broke and it slid off. She road back holding the connector down on the injector 😄😂.
I converted my 2001 FLHTCI with MM EFI to a carb myself. Was simple and did not have to do anything with the wiring. I just purchased the ignition for the carb’d bike and obtained the carb and remaining parts. Ran great for 60K miles when I sold it.
I've got a '08 XL1200L that came with V&H slash cuts on it. I stuck quiet baffles in it so I can yell over it now and added some back pressure. It had a pretty bad low/mid RPM stutter so I added a DK Customs VIED tuner for $140 and that got rid of about 70% of it and I'm happy with it now. I might add a high air flow DK Customs 828 filter to it and see what happens.
I had a super G carburetor from zippers on my 103 then I bumped up the motor transmision and clutch basket and compensating sprocket plus the final drive is chain drive.
Biggest issues i have found with the MM system is the temp sensor in the head. Easy temporary fix with the right resistor. I suppose you could leave the resistor in place but the bike will run rough until it warms up.
As for the carb swap super simple and the wiring is easy if you leave the ecu in place to control the timing.
Carb swap is really the way to go if you got an MM system, the Evo has always seemed to run a lot better with carb.
Really interesting video I learned a lot from it.
Thank you! There's quite a few of those old mag injected bikes out there, they can really cause a unsuspecting buyer some headaches.
You neglected to mention doing this on an old FI 96 up Evo is drilling out the old front fuel feed which is the tricky bit. In comparison doing it on a later model is a walk in the park.
Covert to a carb but forget about the factory wiring harness for carbs ! Buy a Thunderheader stand alone ignition pingel makes a plug & petcock adaptor get the carb of your choice & you in scrap all fuel injection wiring except the crank sensor the bike will run great !
That's the way to go, ThunderMax is the pinnacle. It doesn't get any better, you get a carb dialed in on the button and you can't beat it.
Lets see an in depth on converting straight to carb. I bought a full intake from sns with a new carb and intake manifold along with of course the air cleaner. I heard there was a module you hook up for spark timing and just send the wires to the carb.
I have a MM aim my 2001 Road King with a 95” kit and Wood tw-6H cam and SE heads (in stalled when new). It runs great. Only issue is starting on a hot day. It has an old serial port tuner, that I’ve not been able to read the map on. If is goes I’ll need a new tuner and tune. Until the I’ll keep it - for a 95” it runs stronger than my 2008 110-CVO with the same cam.
The MM systems work great when they work! If you ever have issues the carb would be best route unless you can some how turn up parts and get it tuned again.
I have an 01 converted to carb. With a Daytona twin tech and it’s bad ass. I’m a carb 88-95” guy and it bags off the limiter.
Hey man what parts did u use to convert your 01 ???
Love the ama poster in the back!
Those new lectron carbs really work nice right out of the box for most Harleys, and it uses gravity to self adjust. Its my goto for any 2/3/4 wheeler with existing carb setups.
Hello. Congratulations for the video, very well explained. I'm having a bit of luck with my Magneti Marelli as it was working fine. The problem is that I disassembled the bike to adjust the paintwork and, when I put it back together, I started to have difficulty riding at speeds greater than 80 km/h. After this speed there is a loss of power, the engine coughs and fuel consumption increases a lot. I replaced the fuel pump, filter and lines. I also changed the spark plugs and wires. I cleaned the air filter and vents. I suspect I'll have to change the fuel pressure regulator to get the engine power back. Let me know if you understand that I'm on the right track.
Just finished converting my 96 tour glide to the Zipper’s kit and working out well so far
That's awesome! That's really cool with the Delphi system on an Evo!
@@GixxerFoo no issues with the wiring all plug and play. Some
Minor issues with the thunder max but we worked that out. Also put a cam in , head work and high compression pistons.
@@chriselward9677 Now? A year later? Are you still liking it? Am thinking on doing the same on my 99 FLHTCI, along with a 509 cam chest upgrade (tensioners & cams were done)
@@chriselward9677 I'm curious how you like it as well. Trying to decide whether to go that direction or carb myself
Thanks for your videos and charisma. BtW whats the fart sound at the very beginning of your outtro? Got the neighbor looking weird at me while detailing the bike and watching your videos hahahaha
😄😂 just to see if anyone would notice. I left it out one time to overwhelming disappointment lol.
watching anybody with a new Harley and a low battery try to start it, only to watch the system have enough juice to turn the starter but not keep the ECM alive, so the bike wont start -- that's reason enough to me that carbs have always been better, period. Most people have zero idea what it's like to have a carb thats tuned 100% correctly. But when you do, especially the Harley CV carb, they're bulletproof reliable.
I got a 97 Ultra with the MM fuel injection a couple weeks ago. It had trouble starting when cold and a rough idle. I gave both the cold and regular idle screws a twist and it runs fine now. Eventually I will check the voltage readings on the throttle position sensor and make any adjustments.
That's awesome you were able to get that system adjusted that easily, they can be a real pain!
Hello Marty. There is a video here on CZcams that explains well how to adjust the accelerator sensor. I used the parameters he indicated and it is possible to adjust idle, cold and hot idle.
i had a 2012 1200c i converted to a carb due to the low speed hunt i never could get fixed.all i did was insalled a pingle petcock and bought a intake and cv carb off ebay.ran it along time on the stock ignition.i finally bought that stand alone german system but it made very little differance in the way it run.my mpg was around 42 to 44 with the efi with the carb it went to 50 to 52.just leave the ecm alone so can control the speedo and everything else
A personal observation? The word "safe" is cringe-worthy these days. "Stay safe, be safe, ride safe" blah blah blah. I know you mean well (and I'm a fan of your channel, having referred it to many fellow riders) How about this as an alternative ... "ride free, ride often & have fun out there."
Another excellent presentation, very helpful, thank you!
Thank you and not a bad observation, yeah l didn't think about that. Safe has gotten pretty cringey these days.
Agreed Joseph...it's very annoying to say the least....
This is my first block head motorcycle. Bought an 06 fat boy last summer. Runs great with 19000 on it. Got it from a dude it was his dad's bike and he knows nothing about it . Gave me a case of syn 3 bike seems to be cared for
Only thing is EFI scares me. Always ran s&s on my shovels with good luck
I have the Mag fuel injection on my 01 ultra. It runs flawless with the cobra fuel controller. if i did ever have problems with the mag i would defiantly go carb.
I would do the carb too, you can make yourself crazy chasing down issues on MM system.
Before you added the cobra did it run weird and after you cobra was it hard to get dialed ? Just added it to my98 road glide and it’s been a pain sense adding it
My M&M injection just started acting up. Last 10 miles of a 950 plus mile trip. Been running flawless for 37000 miles but it is a 2000 model electraglide.
My S&S conversion went very well on my 97 ultra. Nothing got butchered because I did it. Night and day difference. Theres nothing wrong with the stuff i took off. I just didnt like how it ran rich when im riding in the 20 to 50 degrees.
That's awesome to hear!
How did u eliminate the fuel injection wire harness nd stuff
James haines
What are you thoughts on Vented Transmission top cover versus external breather setup versus vented dipstick ?
Would make a good video topic.
I figured out around my shop to get the wiring harness and the ECU out of a carbureted bike for the engine it plugs right in I've converted a lot of fuel injected bikes over to carburetor doing that you can also find wiring harnesses out there that are aftermarket to replace it you don't have to get diddly-squat from Harley they don't carry nothing no more
Where are these places you can get the wiring harness..I have a 99 Roadking .converting to carb..Help .. please?
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An old saying from WWII; If the Germans can design a weapon (or anything) with 300 parts , the Americans can make it with 200 parts , the Russians with 100 parts , and the Italians with 10,000! Which includes 9000 shims! Anyone who ever adjusted valves or a Dell'Orto carb on old Italian bikes knows what I mean.
Gotta wonder why M-M worked so well on Ducatis? Was the system design a collaboration between H-D and M-M engineers?
At least they didn't have Lucas provide the system.
Ya know why Brits drink warm beer? Lucas made the refrigerators...
Ignition, coil, rotor (breaker plate), plug wires, VOES, petcock, piping for petcock and VOES, Pingel adapter kit.
Great information. I have question about my 03 flhtcui. Sometimes the fuel pump runs when the bike is switched off, killing the battery and now the fuel pump doesn’t run at all, ( I’m guessing it’s fried the fuel pump ) Any information on why it runs when everything is switched off would be greatly appreciated.
I like to know more about converting from a mag to carb system.
Carb conversion is easy. Evo intake and carb bolts right on. Then you just install a Thunderheart ignition that works with the stock crank sensor. I've done it. He's making it out to be more complicated than it is.
Depends what route you want to take and if you want to pull all your wiring off that was used for the FI. But you're right it's really not that hard.
Might have to go with the Delphi kit. My 99 roadking classic has a "CAL 03" code that won't go away.
The delphi kit is pretty expensive but it's your best bet if you want to keep fuel injection on your bike. Carb is always the most cost effective choice but the Delphi conversion is worth the money.
My 97 flhtcui runs very well. Ride it just about every day. I live in Indiana.
Those Evo motors are stout, they will run 100K plus miles and rebuilds are inexpensive and easy to do!
Harley gave us this mag system that doesn't work and now discontinued the wiring harness to convert to a carb. Way to go Harley I always know you would have are backs.
Ive got a 2000 electraglide. my first harley but about the 20th bike Ive owned. Not being fully "in the know" about HD, it of course has a MM system and the stock cam tensioners. Im capable of all the work but I had a local indy do the tensioner upgrade. the bike ran great even on shit gas until that work was done. now it cold starts and idles great but warm starts can be troublesome. Not their fault - its messing with 20 year old bike, thats always a ball of fish hooks. and Im not asking anyone here to solve that for me :)
It seems to me that a CV carb conversion is the best bet. Im not sure I would want a 20 year old wiring harness either. hardened insulation, broken connectors, corrosion - just to name a few things that would add a difficulty multiplier. I think I would rather take the time to source new connectors, properly colored wires, harness tube and then methodically build the necessary harness from scratch. the first go would be a mess of wires everywhere but establishes the bike runs properly. then go back in and tidy it up with proper harness wrap and routing
2 grand for a stock delphi seems a bit steep on a bike thats really only worth about double that and has no sentimental value :) I actually prefer FI systems, provided you can service them and access the programming.
81k and running great.Best advice I've heard you give? Leave it alone.
My 99 road king has the marnelli system, 52k miles no problems.
Yes, if you haven't already. Please do a segment on converting old M. M. fuel injection to carburator, Thanks
That's one of the best things you can do right there, I'll have to see if I can find a MM bike in need of a change over to carb.
@@GixxerFoo I don't know where you are located but...........If I find one first I will let you know. Then and you can come to Florida next Febuary, and do my converstion for me. And as a test, you can take the bike road tripping down the A1A along the Atlantic Coast, then cross over and thru the Everglades, then finally down thru Keys and end up in Key West!! :)
The Zipper conversion kit is special order. I only seen the 51mm & 55mm kit. 2500.00 now
I have seen some carburetor conversion kits . What do you know about them ?
I have a 2001 roadking classic touring and it leaks fuel from what looks like a fuel pressure regulator on the bottom of the intake .
I have a fuel injected Vulcan 1500 that has electrical gremlins and the spark is all controlled by the ECU which I have now replaced. I'm tempted to just go carb and custom harness with m.unit.
ive got a 05 dyna wide glide injected ive done everything i know and that ive learned to get this sled running right again all sensors are new tps ×3 mapp sensor×3 wiring loop replaced with loop from a twin sled nothing diffrent besides themselves. fuel cell hoses in tank brand new system 2 coil packs brand new battery fuel rail trottle body all new ive done compression check both jugs over whats required at 90 readings are over 120psi i have done fuel preasure checks inline and have acurate numbers the bike fires up and after start up i gas it it comes alive and works like it should after i bring it back to idle she idles great but when i give it gas she falls flat on her face letting throttle go it idles again i had to ride it home from a shop i took it to and had to butterfly clutch and couldnt twist the throttle back a 16th before it would hesitate and die i made it home but only high rpms burning my clutch up and her being hot in 5th i felt in 5th the rpms declining and she wanted to stall im fed up with this ive been working on her for a yr took her to harley and braught her home still not right 3 thousand in bills plus parts easy im not mmi but ive wrenched many degrees and have done custome work but this is my first injected sled and im not a injected person ive started trying to get parts to convert becouse harley called and explained to me that 04 05 wide glide models with the injection system are not parts compramisable???? as to say changing parts has to be either made to model no cross refrencing i ask has anybody expierienced this or did i name her correctly fucking bitch any guidence is appeciated thank you
Looks like Zippers is definitely the way to go
That would be my choice, those kits are expensive but it's a whole lot cheaper than getting a new bike!
Hey Gixxer,
Have a 99 FLHTCI...am seriously looking at the ThunderMaxx/Delphi from Zippers. Simply plug & play. With the ThunderMaxx, just hook up the lap top to find any problems/make changes.
Does not appear to be that much more expensive, than going with a carb and less capable ignition. (carb, manifold, box, petcock etc = $ + TIME)
I see in the comments that one fellow did so. Would like to know how satisfied he is, a year later?
Thank you for the great work!
My solución was a mikuni 42 just disconect everything, same ecm just for spark happy for 5 years no problems better ride better power just fuel and oíl change.
That's awesome! Carb conversion really isn't too bad at all and it can be the best option if you have problems with the older FI systems.
My 2008 has fi problems. A complete carb kit is $1300, or i can run a live tuner for $500 and chase down my issues. Im leanin to the carb conversion, more up front but long term i think ill be happier.
Sadly with fuel injection when you start having electrical issues can just keep going and going. At least with the carburetor you know what you're getting and a mechanical issue is much easier track down.
MY 2008 IS DOING THE SAME THING! WTH!
would be great if you could show a video on a conversion to the carburetor from the Magnelli system parts needed and how . Thanks for all your great videos.
Great suggestion! There are some easy kits out there with everything you need to get a conversion done. They come from Europe and you can get them on Ebay, I am surprised no one in the US has put one together.
Why did I ever buy a Harley ?
I have a 2000 Road kIng with the GREAT Magneti .
I haven't had any problems with it (27,000 miles) so far but I am having nightmares about the future after watching this video. I should have junked Magneti years ago.
Not a Harley guy, but my '01 Roadstar is carbed and has run flawlessly even after hi-comp pistons and other stage 1/2 upgrades. Friends with EFI'd Roadies have issues with similar upgrades. Motorcycles = carbs!
Carbs are so much easier to work with when it comes to upgrades on a bike, getting the fueling right with FI can be a challenge.
I am installing an S&S Super E and Dynatek 2000. Just today I installed the gas tank from a 94 FLHR I found at the SoCal Cycle swapmeet in Long Beach for $200. Installed a Pingle petcock & filter, S&S carb, coil, rotor and ignition module. Next is wiring the module and coil, replacing the throttle cables. Not sure if there's anything else needing to be done. All conversion videos I find here on CZcams are on twin cams, nothing on FLHR evo's so I'm not sure what else I need to do. Tried running the ignition module wires to the coil through the back up the battery compartment but wires about 5" short so ran to the front and have about 4" extra. Trying to find wiring diagram for a carburated 98 FLHR but can't so far.
Dig it, man. Carb all the way.
Never done a conversion myself. Not yet anyway. Had a few injected HDs and no issues at all, other than when I let the tanks run low on fuel lol
Lol that's the part that's rarely talked about is running low or out of fuel on a fuel injected bike. Those fuel pumps get pretty hot when you run the gas out there's nothing to cool them.
@@GixxerFoo exactly! The pumps will wear out quick if you run the tanks low on fuel frequently.
05 was the last year you could order the bike with a carb.
Did go to a super e.
Yeah after that it was fuel injection all the way sadly.
Would love to change mine over to a carb
Happy I got 96 softail carburetor and 05 tc softail....
The carb is the way to go on the Harley in those bikes, the old FI system was nightmare. The Delphi system was way more reliable but it just didn't have that sound the carb bikes have.
Hello if you remember I was telling you about my friend's 2007 and it had the throttle position and map sensor code that would not go away even after replacing the two parts we took it to the first Harley dealer and they tried another map sensor and then they said it needed another wiring harness. We already put a wiring harness on it this was the bike that was in a fire and rebuilt and ran fine for 2 years then the crank position sensor had a code we replaced it it was fine for a couple weeks then we replace the map and the throttle position it still would not take throttle it would idle. I did try and get another computer. And I married it to the system it does not have a alarm just has the turn signal module so it was relatively easy time consuming but easy. My neighbor now took it to another dealer. Again several hundred dollars and we can't fix it. They said well this wouldn't be a good winter project for us. There's got to be something that I'm missing. So at this point and lucky I saw your video we're going to put a carburetor on it but we do need to know what the best way to go I personally like a CV carburetor I know them they're on my bike I fixed them and worked on them they're fine I've had other carburetors over the years SMS and ask you this was back in the '70s and '80s I wasn't impressed. When the CV carb came along it was great I like to Bendix too I had no problems with a Bendix on my shovelhead. I know I was getting long. But what are your recommendations for a standalone computer and I'm going to assume you would power it from the ignition switch utilizing the crank position sensor cuz that's about the only thing that the computer would know where the heck the motor is at at any point in time. Of course getting rid of the pump in the tank and putting an adapter in a petcock and a CV carburetor I would appreciate any recommendations you might have I have read about the thunderheart I believe and there's several other manufacturers but what would be your recommendations thank you so much..🖖
Yeah there's some kits out there for making a swap but sourcing it together yourself can be a bit cheaper. The Pingel petcocks are the best way to go in my opinion, Dynatek or the Thunderheart single fire ignitions are the way I like to go.
@@GixxerFoo thank you for the advice ..
My 2001 Sportster sport came with the wiring for a fuel injected system but came with a carburetor. I guess I was just lucky even though I had to pay the Harley tax and re-jet the carb.
You had a 01 Sportster with FI wiring? That's interesting, they only had select models with FI until 2007.
It was an oddball bike in 2001. It came with up sized cams from the factory and fully adjustable suspension all the way around. It had double disc brakes up front. There is a unused green electrical connector sitting right over the intake manifold and when I asked about it at the dealer they said it was fuel injection. Not sure how true they were being with me.