Which Porsche 996 to buy; the pre-facelift or the facelift? - FGP Prep Book EP13 (Part 2 of 2)
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- čas přidán 19. 08. 2020
- We prep two 996s ready for sale. Which is the better car, the pre-facelift model or the face-lift model? Let us know your thoughts in the comments!
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
It seems the pre-facelift especially, are starting to come into modern classic territory. Original Turbo Twist wheels and amber indicators do it for me, to give that real Mk1 996 look.
I find it remarkable & reassuring that these cars can take high mileages and still look, sound and drive well. No upper limit on using it.
Greetings from Seattle USA.... I enjoy your videos and the way you present and fix the 996 models. I'm ambivalent concerning the pre face-lift and the face-lift aspects... both seem AOK to me from a styling point. You knowledge and advice on what needs to be done and what are sensible upgrades to personalize the car are awesome. I'm in the market for the 2000 Porsche 911 Carrera Cabriolet 6-Speed and I've only seen one of these unfortunately in your videos. The Cabriolet comes as soft top and with the optional Hard top. The Hard top does a good job keeping the 911 shape, and the soft top also does a reasonable job with this in mind also, and I just love the way it folds up magically into the rear and snugs down to be almost invisible. The roll-over protection is also in the Cabriolet for safety. Your length of your videos are spot on IMO... so no need for any apology. You seem to be an 'honest broker' for your clients, this I like in this world of car dealerships that want your money in short order, and you should be proud of your business achievements and the presentation of the 996.1 cars. Well done... and keep doing your videos as I'm learning a lot about the 996.1 as I follow you on CZcams. Thanks, and Cheers mate.
I’m enjoying the videos
I’m enjoying learning.
Totally happy with the length of the vids and I look forward to the next one!
And those 17" wheels are the lightest 'standard' 996 wheels you can get, which is another bonus.
My preference is for the earlier 996.1's as I really dig the early style headlights which for me are nicer than the gen 2 headlights. I would ditch the 17" wheels though and IMHO the 18" turbo twists suit these cars perfectly. Zenith blue always looks good. I can live without the cupholders and think that the 3.4 engine is really sweet and non of the PCM nonsense.
26k in 11 years, lol...... I did 23k in 12 months (2001 996 C2) in 2006/7, including 5 track days & a long weekend at the 'Ring ! Fun year that was :)
The facelift is the clear winner for me. Lights look better, better creature comfort interior and better throttle response.
@Friends Green Porsche - I'm on the hunt for a 996 3.4 and wishing I knew of a dealer here in NZ that didn't skimp on all the updates/replacements that turn a run of the mill purchase into a great purchase. Your attention to detail, and willingness to put everything right before passing on these brilliant 911's is nothing short of heroic. Although I live on the other side of the planet, I'm grateful that I can tune in to your channel and cover all my bases on a pre purchase agreement. Thanks for sharing your passion, and passing on your knowledge to those of us who are less technical, but no less passionate. Cheers.
If I lived in the UK I would buy a used Porsche from FGP with confidence. Keep up the great work on the videos.
I've had both pre-face lifte and post face lift 996s, and I prefer the earlier cars. I like the nature of the 3.4 over the 3.6. On my first post face lift, a 2003, it had the original 17 inch wheels and I also like those over the 18s and 19s that seem more in vogue. The 17s give another dimension of feel and control to the steering, for me. My current 2001 C4 also has the original 17s. Again...very very happy with them.
Gen 1 for me! It's as close as I can get for a watercooled 911 to my '69 912. Love having to really drive the car to get the most out of it. And when I do, it's heaven!
Gen 1 everytime for me, as basic & simple as possible, but each to their own, both are great cars. Favourite options for me are GT3 BBS wheels, hardback sports seats, carbon trim and three spoke wheel. I want to drive the car not play with unnecessary gadgets. I have a fab condition original radio / tape deck in mine but never listen to it, I just love the cars soundtrack.
Great videos and nice cars. Always informative, keep them coming.
Cassettes are so….analogue. I’ve around 500 albums ripped onto mostly good quality tapes from the mid-1970s to mid-1990s. Domestic HiFi includes a top of the line Yamaha from the late-1980s, with a remote!
I used to play & rotate my favourite tapes in cars which had radio cassette players and eventually, R/C + CD multichanger systems. I expect the sound quality would sound very subpar compared to modern digital systems in car. Who would put up with hiss these days?! I can’t bear the idea of chucking them out, even though it’s been a long time since I used any of them.
I do much prefer cars to have a CD player. I’m increasingly growing revolted by the necessity of especially cars and devices to be always online. It’s really unhealthy in a democracy to have so much surveillance granted thoughtlessly to potentially tyrannical supranational entities.
I do like everything about this early 996. If I had room for two, this example plus a late 991 would be my pick.
Your doing a great job. Love the knowledge and also the fact you sort so many things to make possible ownership more easy. Nice job.
Definitely not waffle and I enjoy the longer videos. Was unnecessarily excited when I saw a two part show up. Really can’t decide which I prefer in pre or post facelift but above all the common issues it’s probably the risk of bore scoring that worries me about the later cars as I’ve known an owner that’s suffered with this and there was absolutely nothing but a rebuild that could be done and no real way of avoiding it from what the specialist he used could tell him apart from yearly oil changes to help mitigate. Either way, won’t stop me one day. Love the content, even enjoy the short sales videos so thank you and keep it up.
I believe there a sump modification that can be made which addresses the potential for oil starvation in the right hand bank (cylinders 6 & 5). I noticed that this modification was standard on the 40th anniversary edition.
Having driven both types, I prefer the 'feel' of the early cars. They do feel that little bit more visceral and less bloated. The lesser spec doesn't bother me as neither are luxury by today's standards. I have an 1982 SC which is another era of motoring. On that car, no power steering is an asset and not an omission. I view the cable throttle and 'revier' engine etc in the same way. Not a fashion statement or an attempt to justify ownership/boost prices of either car.
Good comment on the IMS dates, lots of variations there, my 2000 had a double row bearing, and was intact when I swapped it out at 166k
I would take either. Zenith blue is an amazing colour not often seen in my neck of the woods. Enjoyed the video.
Always love your content 👍👍
Keep waffling mate and keep up your brilliant little informative videos for the rest of us to watch n learn 👍
Love the videos. I have an early 99 pre-facelift 996 C2 with Factor Aerokit and I'm learning tons from your videos. Seems like it always the same similar issues with these cars so I know what I got myself into!
I have 2002 C4S, but I like the early cars also. Would miss the cup holder though.
Great video, content spot on, love wheels
Excellent video in typical English weather. I prefer the Gen 2 996 Coupe and own a 2004 C4S w/ X51 pkg. Quite happy with mine and prior owner took great care of it. Really appreciate the excellent information in your vids. Have learned a lot about typical issues. Appreciate you writing and showing maintenance items on the white board. Thx.
Thanks for your feedback. Whiteboard appreciation noted!
Love your videos! Keep them coming, the longer the better. Very useful as I am planning to buy a pre facelift manual no sunroof C2 just like the ones you sell. Only problem is I am in Italy so I can't buy it from you :) Thank you for all your great work and keep it up!
These are great videos, thanks for posting and please continue them! I think neither are better than the other judge each example on its own merit and any mod are fine as long as they are factory and within the whole lifecycle of the model.
Great comparison,did you notice the little chrome rings on the clocks,I have them on my C4S nice little upgrade 👍
@@RK-is6hz it’s a quirky 911
Excellent video, the longer and more detail the better
Love the vids! Still can’t decide tho!
Think I’m going to end up popping down and trying both before sending the credit card to A+E🤣
Fantastic Video Luke ... I am biased to the earlier 996, as I have a 10/97 built Carrera Manual, with factory rear wiper delete and no T.C I believe. I am all for those subtle mods to 'optimise' the car, whilst remaining true to the factory's intention, such as Prokom SS engine mounts and a GT3 shifter, and perhaps uprated brake pads and lines etc ,,,, thanks again
Excellent review! Always learning something new with your insight/ experience of all things Porsche. I think for me it would be a gen 2 996 with factory spec. Keep up the good work! 👍
Many thanks for the IMS clarification for cars between 1999 and 2001, a mixed of dual and single row bearings explain why so many different stories!
Thanks for 2 great videos, keep them coming! Love those 17" wheels, I've rarely seen them. A couple of other little differences: the gen 1 cars had the digital speedo in a better position, and the gen 2 cars are more prone to bore scoring. I think I like the gen 2 headlights slightly better, but I still love my gen 1 overall
Lovely example. Great exhaust note. Even youtube appreciates it. Go to 16:30 and switch on captions.
lol classic
Haha that’s brilliant 😂
Brilliant.
Excellent 😊
Really like the pre face lift versions
Great video. I have a 2000 996 basic c2 and love it.
I prefer the earlier headlights like this car. They were derived from the 917 race car if I’m not mistaken. They are also more aerodynamic.
Yet again another great video. I’m now thinking I would love to own a 996 C4S, they look great!! Would be good to see a video on how you started your business, how you got into the trade etc. Keep the videos coming 👍
That was really informative. I didn't know about all those differences between the two 996 versions. Thanks! I like all the interior additions in the facelift version and I like the bumpers of the pre-facelift since they don't have that little corner "pinch". I do prefer the headlights on the facelift one. Both seem like great cars.
Great video and explanation 👍!
Greetings from Belgium
In the words of James May: Standard!
Lovely wheels, gives the car a younger fresher look.
Great review of a lovely simple clean car. The petrol cap is a correct early cap, small detail but the slots allow it to sit on the flap, there is no body hole for the later type retainer, shame to drill the body, I went through this after buying a new cap thinking my retainer was missing. Keep up the great work and videos.
One additional thing worth mentioning about the earlier ‘99s is they were built with dashboard materials that have a slightly pebble grained texture and a subtle “two tone” finish that I can say from having owned a ‘00 for three years before recently buying an early ‘99 is nicer looking and seems less prone to showing it’s age.
I also feel that the throttle cable provides a noticeable difference in how “connected” I am to the car’s acceleration.
Liked and subscribed, way back when. Love the educational nature of the videos. I love to learn, if it is something I am passionate about. Like Porsche cars. As an owner of an early 911 these videos are priceless and you do a fabulous job presenting. As far as the headlights I prefer the swoopy elegant lines of the pre facelift cars. Very classy. I have a beautiful black 981 Boxster S with factory sport suspension (30mm lower and pretty stiff) and 20" Carrera wheels as OEM options and the car is an absolute beast. It corners like on rails and has a wicked wail from the 2014 version of the direct injected 3.4 flat six. I do miss the comfort of my earlier Y2K Boxer S 986 and have recently purchased a low miles 2001 pre face lift Carrera 2 for a much more comfortable ride. I would take smaller wheels with more side wall (the 996 has 18's) 0ver the 20" on the 981 but I have learned to live with them the way they came from Porsche. Like you, I prefer cars to be as they left the factory. Sorry for waffling, which I am. You aren't. Cheers
Hi Thank you for the information. I have a 2000 911 with a mish mosh of item that you detailed. I have the pre headlights and post electric throttle and cable hood and trunk release. I also had the double row IMS bearing and the three prong steering wheel.
Very good video, your channel is one of genuinely useful ones. I prefer pre-facelift C2, lightest version and i like those lights, I’m not fussed about cable or fly by wire. Hopefully I will be in a position to buy my own one day. Thanks Michael.
Hiya. No the videos are not waffling on at all. As someone that has always worked on my own porsches. You do give great information. I'm getting more and more of the water cooled cars. So your info is very much appreciated. Kind regards Bob Rose. Northampton
As soon as i'm ready to buy one i'm coming straight to you!!!!!! Love the content please keep it up!
Buy mine👍 ex friends car, and i have then made it mint
Great video
Very good looking car!
Thanks for the video. I would prefer the face-lift one more. Regarding mod, I think they are acceptable as long as its not too "heavy".
Great videos! I prefer the Gen1 996 - smaller look on front and back, and I like the headlight. I am happy to own one (late 99 C2 manual cab in cobalt blue with 18 Turbo1 hollow spoke)...
Love these videos. I wasn't a huge fan of the pre-facelift ones until your videos (especially that Ocean Jade one!) I'm in the market in the US for a manual 996 or 997. Your videos have given me more confidence to inspect a 996 myself to see if it is worthy of a professional PPI. Can you do more 997 videos so I can better train my eyes? Keep up the good work! Thanks!
Pre-facelift is the clear winner! Great car with all the mods done. I just ordered the grill protection for me as well...didn't know about them until I have seen your video, so thanks for that and keep up with your great work and greatings from Germany. 👍
"clear winner" in your eyes obviously, but in reality both are great cars, and declaring one a clear winner speaks to ownership bias LOL
Great wheels keep those on
The length felt short to me but I live alone 😂
My fave is the C4S. Can’t see past it tbh but all early cars are fabulous for some reasons and fl are for others
I am no fan of luxury options and an Ariel Atom would be in my lotto garage
Keep up the good work and you could say the price of each car
Three years on, still a great comment.
One thing against mentioning prices is that these will “date” the videos more than anything else.
Don’t worry about trying to shorten the videos! As long as you’re delivering excellent content and info! And you are! I really love the styling of the 996 and I’m not really partial to either the Gen 1, or 2. The 1 is a bit lighter than the 2, but by a negligible amount. I really love the various colours of blue that Porsche had for the 996 series of 911. From this Zenith blue, Lapis blue, all the way to Ocean and Midnight blue! Porsche does an amazing job on blues!
Just to pick your brain a bit, what does a higher mileage 996 fetch in Great Britain in such excellent condition? Here in Canada, a 996 with 200K with these options would likely sell in the 22-26,000 CAD range. Obviously a bit less without all the maintenance that this car has been given. She’s a beauty! I’m currently searching for my retirement gift to myself and have been watching pricing for about the last 3 months. We can’t travel, so we might as well drive!
Thanks for the kind words. To answer your question regarding prices, we’ve not had a 996 on a mileage as high as 200,000, but our 996s are usually between £15,000-£25,000.
The early 996’s are getting hard to buy now, prices have gone up a lot just recently. TBH I prefer the facelift they look better, but all subjective.!
I love this color, the wheel style is great however, I think 18" would look better than 17s. Sport Classic wheel would look amazing on that - in fact they look great on any 996. Great video, wonderful looking car. I posted a video of my 996 C4S on my channel, thanks for looking. Keep up the great 996 videos.
Love the videos. 👍🏼 Should probably have mentioned those badly corroded mufflers.
I prefer the face-lift version of the 996 but body colour also could influence a final decision. Happy with the content but tend to get a bit dizzy when you go on a handheld 'walkabout' alternating between the car and your good self. Otherwise all very interesting and informative.
Just picked up a 21K miles 02’ car. Used to newer cars, so will see. OK with period correct tasteful mods. That color is awesome, mine is guards red, no aero kit. Like things from both pre & post facelift. My fav pre is the square steering wheel. Do like the engine on the post better. In US non sunroof cars are hardly ever found. I like the clean look. Lastly, like both headlights, but slightly prefer the newer ones. Safe driving to all!
Just come across your channel a few days ago, think I’ve watched them all now. Really enjoying the technical aspects of the video’s plus the explanations of various nuances between models.
My choice would be a totally stock, a it left the factory early 996. No mods, in poverty spec. Any chance of reviewing an early Boxster, I’ve got a 98 with 71k miles and would be interested to hear your thoughts on them? Not yet a classic but getting there.
I have those wheels on my 986 boxster. Thanks as I wondered where they came from
Great channel 😀 any chance of doing a 996 C4S to 997 C4S comparison please?
17s ftw as always. Same with my Boxster, they drice best (on the road, at least) on smaller wheels.
Another nice vid. Not too long, defo not waffle, some interesting facts!!. Face lift all day long for me. IMO owners of earlier cars are trying to make them seem more special than later cars saying they are more "pure" because of cable throttle and less spec. It's trying to create an artificial price premium for them. It's all cobbler's. Older car = less spec and more basic. Great cars but they are NOT more desirable over the facelift cars.
Love your videos. Question on the IMS bearing: I have a near mint 2000 996 with 58K miles. Wikipedia states that the 1998, 1999, and 2000 996's were not included in the class action lawsuit against Porsche because of how few IMS issues occurred in those models (I have not replaced my IMS). Would love your thoughts.
Very good presentation. Just sometimes the sound went off / strange when in the car. However very good content and presentation
I really like the detail in the videos - definitely not waffle. I think I prefer the facelift headlights and would prefer the few extra creature comforts in the facelift. How is the car without psm? I think I’d want that as a safety net (I know I could just be more careful).
I know you posted this comment two years ago and prolly don't care about the answer, but 911s are all about traction and great handling. And analog cars like this tells you how the front and back tires are doing, you feel it in your back and through the steering wheel. And they tell you very clearly when you start to push it a bit and when you are approaching the limit. When I first got my 996.1 I went to a large parking lot in light rain to test how and when the back would lose control. I was curious how a no traction control car would act. And I couldn't do it at first, it just drives fast cornering. I had to 'cheat' and really drive extremely aggressively from a stand still in the wet to make it slide a bit sideways. And I could still control it. So for spirited road driving, you don't miss the lack of psm, you learn how your car reacts. I see it as my stock 996 is basically better at driving than I am, so it is extremely fun to drive and it can teach me safely to become a better driver long before I wreck the car. After a week of owning the car, you don't think of pcm or not, it is just not relevant.
@@EspenXInformative post, thank you.
I like the pre facelift but with mods electric boot switch, fbw throttle, ( i hav a nov 2000 c4) ;-)
Hey mate >>>
Great videos, my 99’ 996 cable throttle w/ 166k milles on it fills like so effortless >>>>> look like I can go another 150k w out a problem >>> let me know if you need any part ship from the USA. Cheers
Wheels…YES!
Is it a noticeable difference from cable throttle to eGas? Purists prefer cable throttle but is the better?
Great vid as per usual, very informative and I like the level of detail you go to pre-sale with your cars. This Zenith blue example happened to catch my eye on your website recently. Now I’ve seen the care that the previous owner lavished on it and the thoughtful upgrades, I like it all the more. Just a shame I’m not in a position to buy atm. Just one thing - no IMS upgrade. Do you only do this to single row cars as a matter of course?
Hi, thanks for your feedback. To answer your question regarding the IMS bearing, we probably do 90% of cars, but as this car had just had its clutch and flywheel renewed, is a safer dual-row bearing configuration and is at the cheaper spectrum of our sales cars, we decided not to upgrade this one. However, the car has just been sold and the buyer asked for us to do the bearing upgrade, which we have agreed to carry out for an additional £X amount.
Friends Green Porsche I’m sure the buyer will be over the moon with his new investment and I look forward to meeting you one day when I’m in a better position to buy a 996.
How about using gen1/gen2 instead of pre facelift / facelift, less of a mouthful? Another informative video.
Don't mind the waffle! Suits your videos. I prefer pre facelift. Will buy one from you soon.
See you soon Howard 😆
I note you seem to go for Manual transmissions and Coupe's. Any reason?
Lovely car but for me unessesary suspension modifications from factory spec unless modified for track sessions
996 GT3 mk1
Would also like to add, I’ve never seen those allots on a 996 and I’ve looked at a lot of cars on eBay etc over the last year or so. Did everyone go for the optional 18’s on the gen 2 instead??
You’re right, there are very few of these wheels around. They’d become very unfashionable ay the time so most opted for the 18s.
Loved the 2-part video. You've got a great style of presenting - not patronising your viewer but educating the enthusiasts.
As for which version is best, I've owned a gen'1 on original 17 inch wheels and loved it! Keen to try a Gen 2 car and a C4S. I sold it on a whim and am now seriously thinking of getting another one. Keep up the great work!
Thanks for the comments - very much appreciated
Wheels not bad.
A quick question regarding fly by wire and cable throttle cars, if you don't mind? is it automatically the case that cars with electronic throttle control and 4 Lambda sensors will be the +20 bhp engine?
Hi Peter. No that’s incorrect. The power output increased in 2001 when the engine went from 3.4 litre to 3.6 litre, i.e. when the car was face lifted.
@@friendsgreenporsche5234 Thanks for the detailed answer, it is confusing the way the cars change over this period! I saw a couple of early 996 on dyno runs back to back last year and the 'fly by wire' showed more power than the cable, although both were 2001 3.4 motors. I had assumed that the variance was down to the ecu and lamda as they were both similar in every other way. Great channel, really enjoying your content.
You forgot the glovebox. The PFL doesn't have one, whereas the FL has one. :)
Hi Emile. You’re right and maybe I should have mentioned the glovebox. However, I could waffle on about little differences between the two models for hours, but I’d send you to sleep!
leave the 17 " wheels they look great
I have those bbs 18 inches, I’d trade for this 17 inches
Aren't the pre fl cheaper Tax?
Mines £23 a month
Gen 1 everytime for me, as basic & simple as possible, but each to their own, both are great cars. Favourite options for me are GT3 BBS wheels, hardback sports seats, carbon trim and three spoke wheel. I want to drive the car not play with unnecessary gadgets. I have a fab condition original radio / tape deck in mine but never listen to it, I just love the cars soundtrack.
Great videos and nice cars. Always informative, keep them coming.