NEW UNIVERSAL Power Tool Battery Platform - Ceenr PDNation | Dewalt Milwaukee Makita & More!
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- čas přidán 4. 05. 2024
- The Ceenr PDNation platofrm uses adapter plates and 4ah worth of 21700 Molicel cells and USB-C Power Delivery to deliver a universal battery pack to DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita, Bosch, Craftsman, Porter Cable, Black & Decker, Einhell and more!
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Go check out Torque Test Channel's vid for their high-quality testing: czcams.com/video/CDFMOP0qr3Q/video.html
They also determined that the Ceenr pack can NOT be charged using DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita, etc. chargers with an adapter plate.
I always hoped that EU will force manufacturers in Europe to use single battery interface for each voltage just like they forced USB-C on all charging devices.
I think this would be more beneficial than the usbc rule
IMO the vaccum hose diameter in power tools should be standarized as well.
Politicians and law makers are always 10+ years behind the thinking of the average guy in the pub. They could never get real jobs.
IMHO any tool maker that doesn't sign up for an open standard is not confident in their product. Looking to maintain customers by pain of changing instead of quality of product.
Tool companies would miss out on locking customers into buying proprietary batteries
Power tools appear to be the only battery powered things that don’t have a standard system. It should be regulated but of course 💰💰💰
Honestly, I see manufacturers building in a handshake before this gets the chance to become consumer stuff.
Makita already did. XGT tools will only run full tilt with makita batteries. It's not a full lockout, but it will reduce performance notably
Yeah, same thought here. Being a EE/CS guy, this is one of those things that quickly pops to mind. Sometimes you want complete interoperability, other's your forced by the bean counters to not have it :)
Check out Tool Scientist. He's done a deep dive on both Makita LXT and Milwaukee battery communication. Spoiler - nothing too fancy going on, especially on the tools. Milwaukee has some basic serial communication on the charger.
@@PhillyFixed Hey thanks! Will check that out!
At Bosch it gets more interesting when using a two row battery like the 5.5Ah or 8.0Ah. Does Ceemr have one that keeps up with those?
42Amp cells with 4Ah capacity🤘. Not too big, not too small as far as profile. USB C charging. One battery platform. Sounds like a win in my book brother.
Good stuff here. It's not like an adapter at all IMO which you point out well.
I am liking the hype building up
If you like it must be good your a legend among review channels
@patrickbledsoe2176 has some kinks to work out. But sounds like they want to work on it
It's exactly like an adapter though. It's literally a battery, with an adapter on top. Time will tell if tool manufacturers attempt to cease and desist claiming some sort of patent infringement with the battery connections or "communication" circuitry.
Don't get too excited about the success of a multi -tool battery platform. If this catches on, the major companies will install a "kill switch" in their power tools that will ID a "foreign" battery and shut down. Just like the Printer business did.
This could be the beginning of a very good thing. I'm glad someone finally opened the door and brought it.
Great review Jim. Get those furniture sales going. 🙌
It's ridiculous that there isn't a universal battery system for power tools.
Unfortunately, companies just want to lock you into their system so you're afraid to buy a different brand of tool even though it might be better.
But it would be really awesome to be able to buy the best tool for the job without worrying about being locked in to a battery ecosystem.
What's stopping you from buying a few tools across multiple brands? I have ryobi (usb, 18v and 40v), milwaukee (m12 and m18), metabo hpt (18v and 36v), and kobalt.
Milwaukee and metabo hpt cover all the big boy tools, kobalt gets all the ones where the power isn't needed and ryobi is due to all the oddball tools and ope.
I was looking at ridgid for the LSA but ridgids tools are basically beefed up ryobis or detuned milwaukees, I don't think I need a third tti set of tools, especially when kobalt, their direct competitor lineup wise, is simply better and cheaper.
Yes 6 different battery platforms isn't convenient, but once you have 1 tool on a platform, it's really easy to just pick up another as needed. Ryobi, kobalt and metabo hpt are all good like this too as most their stuff comes tool only, so 1 kit opens the door to the whole platform
the adapter from makita to dewalt etc does me fine its quick and gets the job done
@@james2042 It's ridiculously more expensive adopting multiple tool brands. When you have a stock of batteries for one platform, you can save a tonne of cash by just buying bare tools when you need them. Not to mention needing to have chargers and backup batteries for every brand if you use them daily.
@Church287 we just passed memorial day, every single major brand had a buy x get 1-2 y free deal. Of course the value of the deal depends on the value of the free tool, but none the less you now have another platform you can buy into when theres a one off tool they have or they have a great deal
For me this makes me excited to move all the OEM batteries/chargers outside to the garage and keep the Ceener batteries inside where they can power the house power tools along with being power banks for multiple other uses. I like this idea a lot.
I do really appreciate your videos Jim. Glad you made it back after some time. I honestly think that ceenr concept is the right approach. Hopefully, many other people do too. Blessed be the barrel grip my friend and happy Easter
Great content, this type of concept is exciting to see, and it would appear as they have really followed through with good quality. There's always room to improve on a good ideal and this is no exception, but that being said it's definitely a great time to be in the trades with all the technology and advancements of power tools and battery technology. Awesome work Jim, along with TTC. Hopefully you are cooking up more videos soon.
the manufacturers definitely need to be held to some standardization. it's in everyone's best interests.
DeWalt and Black & Decker is made by same parent company... Completely ridiculous they have two different batteries, similar but just slightly different.
The day they come out with 8.0A batteries I’m buying some for my makita tools
I love your content Jim, thank you for real world testing! ❤️
Thanks for watching!
I think this concept should be mandated.
It is being in Europe.
Will never happen in the US. That's why bluetooth was initiated in Europe. The US government tries to be hands off in commercial standards.
Good job sir! I appreciate you putting in the work. It's a very interesting product.
For those of you who think that this will be the end-all for power tool batteries, think again. I stated long ago that the major manufacturers of power tools are actually in the retail battery industry where much of their profits come from. They essentially took a page out of the Printer business which, also made most, if not all, of their profits from the sale of ink. That's why printers were essentially being given away at a very low price. The same is true with power tools. With a few exceptions, the cost of power tools are relatively low when you consider the high cost for R & D, etc. That's why companies like Harbor Freight, Sensei, and others can capitalize on others doing the R & D and making substantial profits even though their tools are extremely inexpensive.
Hey, don't crush our hopes and dreams! But you're right; like my dad always said -- "It's not the razor, it's the blades."
Welcome back! Haven’t seen you in forever. I know you have more important things going on in your life and that will always come first but it’s good to see you back
I totally agree. I love your channel Jim because I can always count on unbiased but thorough reviews of the tools and tool accessories I want or am interested in.
I really appreciate your time and effort in putting these reviews and demos together. Thank you!
about time someone come up with this method and put quality cells in them
a lot of time those board go bad in especially Milwaukee fail to charge
even better to put rubber molding at bottom
i take so many batteries apart
definitely give them feedback
Impressive that you got your hands on them.
Yeah lucky you. I've been talking back and forth with them for a bit with no luck.
That's weird... not sure who else actually got them other than TTC, who asked Ceenr to buy them.
@@PhillyFixed Dean Doherty www.youtube.com/@deandohertygreaser and he did a review. I get the impression some influencers got them.
@@PhillyFixedStill waiting for mine...
@@PhillyFixedExcept between yours and TTC, I don't feel I need to do it now.
While not true universal batteries, here in the UK/ Europe Bosch has started a multi battery platform that includes Fein and others. While years ago Metabo/ Mafell and 20+ other brands got together and formed the cordless alliance battery system.
I'm liking it! Great video Jim!
Love, love, love this thing. One battery to rule them all.
That would be nice. We went mostly DeWalt last year and the battery failure rate just about killed us.
Yes, how many remember many years ago when they would send free razor with one blade.
Then when you go to buy blades for razor it was 10 dollars!
A lot tool companies low ball a drill to get you into the platform.
It seems i am the Milwaukee platform now, mower and leaf blower.
Einhell is branded Ozito in Australia .
We need the hikoki/mhpt plate as well but a very cool concept
Just FYI, the screw at the end of the 2 9/16" bit does not really "pull down" on the bit. At those speeds, it cannot possibly "pull down" on it like it's a threated bolt being threaded into a threated hole. It's literally a screw going into bare wood. It's meant to start the hole but does not continously pull down on the entire bit as you suggest. Therefore, you still need to put a bit of pressure on it (in this case, gravity acts as a bit of pressure on it even if you don't actively push down).
I like the shape, Square, they should stack well for storage, transport and charging. And love the idea. If it looks to become mainstream i can see investing in these
This is a good start in the right direction. Also imo, all batteries should start coming with usbc ports. Gotta standardize the entire industry. Looong overdue.
Jim's Back, great video 😎⚒️😎⚒️😎
the small batteries dont get me automatically because i use large angle grinders ..... circ saws... string trimmers.... the heavier stuff .... but with the correct capacity and price point its gonna be game changing .... hopefully the competition makes bigname brands drop their pricing as well
About time someone did this
I just had my 3rd DeWALT battery take a dump today. First was a 4AH(compact version), this lasted like a year. Second was a 10ah from a mower, and today was a 8ah that came with power detect kit. All have 21700 cells. Is this a common issue? Maybe I will switch to this new platform
I live in Ukraine. You can order battery-to-tool adaptors on a local internet marketplace from any battery you have to any possible tool you own, including local brands, Chinese nonames etc.
The price is about 4-5 dollars a piece. Delivered to Nova Post the nearest postmachine in 2-3 days after the order.
This is a good idea, but a better idea is a family of adapters that let me use the battery tech I've already invested in on new tools that I'd like to buy. Since many new tools are sold without batteries and chargers, I'd have more use for an adapter that puts what I've already got to use with whatever tool I need to buy. A lot of big box stores change brands yearly, or offer special prices on certain brands at different times. Knowing I could invest in another brand without having to purchase another set of batteries and chargers would just be perfect!
Such adapters already exist.
The first time I saw these batteries I had to see if could buy one
Great video thx!
My "star protect" Makita tools do not have a complimentary connector for the yellow connector, the difference between dumb and plus is that the plus uses ground, power, and 1 additional contact to the battery and that either reads the same voltage as the battery(for charged/usable) or 0v(low voltage/self protection triggered). The yellow connection on my 18v stuff is only used, as far as I can tell, by the chargers and possibly a battery history dongle that can get info from the on-battery circuitry. This may not apply to other lines.
glad someone finnaly just used the video editor to actually get the timing right to compare speed tests lol
Jim, but does it pass through the star protection and other proprietary battery functions through the use of the extra pins. Things like not allowing the battery to over draw, causing premature battery failure?
I'm not sure, honestly. I can't imagine it's giving the full OEM level of protection. Need to investigate further...
The battery has its own protection. It will cut power on its own, so it doesn't need to signal the tool (except to trick the tool into running in the first part, but that just requires putting the right voltage onto the signalling pin of the tool)
@@toolscientist this absolutely depends on the brand.
I like and dont like the shape at the same time. It has quite sharp edges, so it propably stands very well when a tool is on top, on the other hand it is quite chunky.
If and when Ceenr becomes successful in winning over the general public with its innovative approach to sale of power tool batteries, rest assured the major manufacturers of these power tools will program their power tools to reject any battery pack other than those sold by them. Tool manufacturers will take a page out of the Dot Matrix Printer Company's playbook when it too noticed a significant drop in sales from its print cartridges, which was its bread in butter and major part of its profits. Power Tool Battery sales are the major source of income in the cordless tool business.
This adapter is really cool!
Probably little difference in performance must be because of the connections and conductors more in the path of the electrical current. But in practice it won't make much difference.
Honestly, there is still no standard for battery fitting due to lobbying by companies within regulatory bodies such as ASME, ISO, DIN, among others.
ABNT does this a lot around here.
By the way, greetings from Brazil!
Part 2 of this video should be "can this battery pack from CEENER be able to charge after discharging from a tool?" . Hoping to see that review soon.
Hell ya badass, I like it 👍👍👍
I'm in but not as a start up. I've been burned to many times. I'll wait until it's a released product.
I have some older PANASONIC tools that I LOVE, but my batteries are all dead. I hope they can include them.
Good stuff Jim
Thanks Jim
You did a Makita video a while back I wonder if you can put the hammer and the motor into the model 19 or put the brain box in the older model or vice versa because that would make it heavier inside and more power just wondering
You mean swap the XDT14 and XDT19 internals?
Cool. If they are using LG batteries, I will definitely try it
the question here regarding charging, can the Ceenr battery charge via the original battery charger from the power tool using the converter??
It cannot, unfortunately.
Rob should be jealous of this one 😏
This is awesome
I have all the craftsman tools they are always doing deals for free batteries I now have 13 batteries 🔋 cool that there’s aftermarket but oem is always on sale
why should I use no name batteries as long as there are adapters between batteries from Makita-Dewalt, Bosch-Milwaukee ... for example I use an 18 V and 12 Ah battery from Milwaukee for a Makita coffee filter on the platform of 18 v...
I don’t understand what the differences between these in any other battery adapter. Could someone explain, please?
Most generic battery adapters simply connect the battery pack + and - power terminals to the tool. The Ceenr adapter plates have 2 additional terminals and appear to leverage the various tool manufacturers' protection mechanisms. For example, newer Makita tools with "star protection" have a 3rd terminal that will tell the tool to shut off when the battery pack voltage drops below a certain level. The Ceenr packs seem to support this function -- although I need to confirm.
I wonder how long the USB port will last in a real world situation when exposed to dirt, sawdust, etc. They may want to consider some sort of protection such as a rubber dust plug. Thank you for the interesting video.
It did have a rubber dust plug originally -- towards the end of the vid when I look at the charging protocols I mention that I had accidentally ripped it off. oops!
Is it possible to charge the Ceenr-pack with a charger via the adaptor like a normal tool-battery?
It is not.
Good video, but the dewalt drill was on clutch number 11, not on drill mode. So it might actually have made the hole in speed 2 if not for the clutch.
Dang, you're right, not sure how I missed that. I went and and checked a video I did a couple of years ago that included the 998, and while it wasn't able to make it through on speed 2 with the same bit, it made it about halfway through the board.
@PhillyFixed another reason why electronic clutches suck. Pretty hard to not notice a mechanical clutch slippping. They could at least make it flash the light a few times.
Hi, can you put it with dewalt adapter on to the regular dewalt charger ?
I would not recommend that... and I didn't attempt it. I don't think these are designed for that. I'll reach out to Ceenr to confirm, though!
Doesn't work. Nothing happens
Don't use adapters on chargers, best case it doesn't work, worst case you damage the battery
Anyone know if this fits BAUER 20V tools and/or my VINTAGE collection of CHICAGO ELECTRIC 18v tools from the late 1900s/early 2000s(?)
It does not. I wouldn't expect Bauer to be a priority for them for developing new plates, either.
I am all for this. I'm just wondering if there are any potential legal avenues the mentioned big brands could take against them with regards to circuitry optimizations on the adapter that are implemented to mimic the features on the particular brand it's for.
I had the same thought. Depends on the scope of the respective patents and whether those brands think it's worth the legal costs to pursue. If I had to guess, they won't bother. I guess we'll see!
If they use patented circuitry and code, then they'll be shut down quick. If they use something they made seperate that isn't identical then it's fair game.
They don’t have to win a lawsuit they can simply sue Ceenr out of existence in legal fees.
I hope Ceenr does well I’d love to see this as industry standard.
I assume their allowances by each of the companies is to use the fitment design to make adapted batteries as they do sell those much like 3rd party batteries on Amazon (who knows if they have legal rights to use those designs or not) so in that regard these adaptors that connect to the universal pack is the target and they more than likely have all clear on that regard. Its just adapts to their branded battery pack instead of another.
Keep in mind though that Dewalt and Milwaukee both are doing experiments with batteries and newer programs in those batteries to get more out of the tools they make which is why both of them keep fighting each other in the charts on TTC on YT. They have to get recoup from these tests and battery tech they implement otherwise we might not ever have the power tools we have getting what they are getting atleast not at the price they do. They could easily go up hundreds to update tool power instead of fiddling with batteries. So a universal mandated battery could be bad in that regard but this direct adaptor to battery is better than a universal battery as it allows that freedom but fills a similar roll.
Jim Davis You Sum Gum !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good stuff here. 👍💪🙏🇺🇸😊
Unfortunately they don't cover Ryobi - I have several garden tools from them. perhaps later.
Samsung has also launched a duel power version. I'll stick to original, unless I have no other options.
So I can't use my Makita charger to charge the Ceenr battery pack? I have to use the USB port?
That's correct. Unfortunately you're limited to 45W charging.
Isnt there some sort of lock on the adapter ? it looked like you almost knocked the batery out of it while inserting it to the tool
I may not have had it latched all the way? It's actually a snug fit and can be hard to remove, if anything.
I love the USB-C charging. I'll check the Test Channel link for more information on charging the battery.
I'm not big on fast-charging Li-ion batteries due to the physics of the heat generated. There is loads of info/controversy on that subject.
Semi-OT: Don't let batts run down to zero and then charge to 100%. Some of the better chargers have circuitry to control the charging rate, etc.
For phones, I only use a fast charger in my car when my battery is low. Also, some (all?) Android phones have a setting to only charge to 85%
Oh, and I don't recommend slamming the battery into the tool. While it should all line up, I've seen guys bust the blades and/or receivers. Same thing with putting a clip into a semi-auto pistol or rifle. It looks cool in movies/TV, but IRL can f-up the clip or receiver. Just sayin' :)
The pack does have a CellWise CW1053 BMS chip - I'm no expert on BMS implementation, but it seems decent. But nowhere near as fast as power tool battery fast chargers at 150-300 watts. As far as slamming the battery -- that's one downside, needs a good bit of force to get it on there, lol. Not as bad as most cheapo eBay adapters, though.
The Bosch 1330 needs the 8ah profactor battery as recommended by Bosch.
Sure, but the focus was really on the battery comparison and the Ceenr is only 4ah.
Maybe I missed this but these batteries can or can not be charged on milwaukee, Makita etc chargers?
They cannot - I didn't mention it in the video though.
The bosch drill needs a 5.5+ procore battery to get the full power.
I like this idea a lot, but i always get batteries in tool deals if i need more.
Ein Ladegerät kommt mir für die Baustelle sinnvoller vor.
Mein altes Makita Ladegerät funktioniert noch immer wie am ersten Tag.
Und die Usb Kabel gehen oft genug kaputt 😅.
Aber ein Einheitliches Akkusystem wäre schon ein Traum, eines für alle Systeme meine ich.
The only problems I can see with this so far is that upon release it's going to be £171 for a battery and adapters for Milwaukee, DeWalt and Makita. Brand new 5ah batteries for each of those brands varies from £45-£54 each. I'm not sure it would convince me to change to it despite me thinking that the idea is absolutely fantastic. Most people I know that have heavy tool usage also all tend to use the same brand so they could just buy 3-4 new batteries instead of this one. The USB-C charging is of course nice but chargers are so cheap and plentiful now that I can get a Makita or Milwaukee charger for the price of a good quality USB-C cable as well.
I do hope it takes off though and that the price can be cut in half to make it a no brainer choice for everyone.
I see failure in connection. More contact points to vibrate and wear.
I AM a beautiful man. Great video. I'm anxious to see how this platform does. Including the USB charging was smart. Just wish they had a proper rapid charger.
Ceenr told me 100W is coming soon to max out the USB Power Delivery spec, but that's still slow in a power tool context.
@@PhillyFixed Too slow. They could just make a benchtop charger that uses the slot between the battery and adapter. I don't get it. Maybe there's a technical issue they're not sharing with us.
Do they fit Makita x2 tools?
Nope. That's the main eason Makita doesn't have 21700 packs for LXT, the cells are longer (packs are wider).
Well, Metabo has allready CAS, Bosch is building amp share now with Wagner, Fein, Ledlenser and maybe Stihl in the future..
I don't see a future in a 3rd party battery and adapters..
I don't see SBD, TTI or Makita signing on to a shared battery platform of any sort. Even within their own different brands they have separate platforms.
For versatility it's nice but for fast paced work not so much. For example fast charging options from Dewalt and Milwaukee offer 300W and higher charging speeds and on large capacity batteries it makes a big difference (Makita and Milwaukee have to resort to doubling the amount of batteries for some tools to have better performance even). Power hungry tools also eat that charge very quickly so unless you're running something like drills or impacts you'll end up having to wait for a while for batteries to charge at about 100W that current USB-C allows especially if you running some high demand tools like grinders,saws, blowers etc. I like the idea but don't think it will become very popular with many contractors. Considering that you would need to charge 4.0Ah 4x time VS one fully charged 12Ah battery I would personally pass on this myself especially now that they have twin superchargers on M18 line for example that handles fast charging of multiple batteries quickly so you can keep using tools without much downtime.
I’ve been doing this with adapters off aliexpress for years. Def would be good to not need adapters. They’re all 18v and same cells no reason to make the shape diff
Metabo HPT not supported. Bummer.
How are these priced compared to OEM batts?
Should be $20 for the adapter plates and $69 for the battery pack full price.
Will they do a 12v version also ?
Not that I am aware of, just 18/20V.
@@PhillyFixed maybe it will come. This is a great idea and saves a lot of money on battery and chargers.
Красавчики! Кто такие акб придумал.
finally...something good
How often do they explode?
Well considering they're not shipping yet, I don't think they've had a chance.
Now they just need to make adapters for metabo/hitachi, ridgid and flex
Not sure about Flex since it's 24V, probably a lower priority for them right now.
but it would have been great to connect batteries them in parallel to increase the amps
Yeah the problem with this idea is I’m not paying $218 for a single battery. That’s absurdly expensive, on sale the things are just over $100-140, where as on sale I get two for 100 using the brands I have. The universality doesn’t save me any money so I’m not forking quadruple the price for convenience.
What is the title of the video that you had smoke coming from the Milwaukee gen 4
Not ringing a bell... maybe someone else's vid??
@@PhillyFixed it was you but is was not on your channel it was on a nother one ,it was a big lag you were trying to put in but the tool did not like it
Found it! czcams.com/video/wIVPtb6q-eo/video.html
@@PhillyFixed thanks
It's an interesting idea. The name Ceenr is disappointing. It sounds like every other Chinese cheap and cheerful brand on Amazon.
It's a novel concept, but the problem is, MOST people can have all their needs met by 2 of the big brands. It's rare that anyone would need to go into 3 different brands to get some obscure or best-in-class tool that the other 2 brands don't have or don't make as well. The majority of people don't have a problem with investing into 2 battery platforms.
So what is the costs? I really don’t see the point if you have to buy all these adaptors. Just more junk in your work shop. And what if they fail?
This would be a great idea if you could use say, DeWalt batteries on a Milwaukee tool because that brand had one tool you really needed.
Looks like they'll be $20 per adapter plate, $69 for the battery pack.
Does it have built in low voltage protection?
It does, it has a battery management system chip. (I ran out of time to do a full teardown as part of the vid.)
@@PhillyFixed Cool, thanks.
@@PhillyFixed I'd love to see a teardown. TTCS was very brief and CEENR painted over the chips to obscure them. Be interesting to see if they painted yours as well or if you can read chip numbers
@@toolscientist can confirm, they painted the chips on mine. I did crack it open but had some issues with the footage and needed to get the video published so I didn't re-shoot. The BMS chip is a CellWise CW1053, and the USB-C power delivery chip is some no-name Chinese chip that I couldn't find English language datasheets for. Surface mount caps, resistors, etc. and some op amps.
@@PhillyFixed thanks! The interesting ones are the path between B- and P-. TTCs was blurry but it looked like 2 shunt resistors (can you read their rating? looks like R005 in TTC vid) and then 4 mosfets (looked like Q10,11,12,13)
What about the Flex battery
Not supported day 1, but they plan to add more brands/platforms. I think Ryobi is at the top of the list. Hopefully Flex, Metabo HPT, Ridgid...
I’m in!!!!
Really bad they are sold out already. These could definitely come in handy.
They're not sold out... They are on Indiegogo and not available on their site yet.
Amp share?
Eh, a bunch of tool manufacturers agreed to use Bosch's battery interface for Ampshare. This is entirely 3rd party. And none of the AmpShare platforms are SBD or TTI brands.
funny thing is to get 21700 cells on makita you have to do something like this
Yup, the 36V LXT tools won't work with wider packs so they haven't released any.
Would need to see how it holds up.
Hearts in fire ! XD