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Finding Dory: What Went Wrong? - Wisecrack Edition
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2017
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If you’re going to make a sequel, try not to take 13 years to make it. If you take 13 years anyway, then at least don’t rewrite the whole thing at the last minute, right? Wrong. In this edition of What Went Wrong, we explore how late stage rewrites in Pixar’s Finding Dory led to some questionable narrative choices ,resulting in a rather underwhelming film.
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Written by: David Radcliff
Directed by: Michael Luxemburg
Narrated by: Jared Bauer
Edited by: Mark Potts
Assistant Editor: Andrew Nishimura
Motion Graphics by: Drew Levin
Produced by: Jacob Salamon & Emily Dunbar
© 2017 Wisecrack, Inc.
Animators: "We're stuck and there's no obvious way we can go with the plot."
Director: "FLASHBACK"
Animators: "but she has memory loss, we don't thin-"
Director: "FLASHBAAAAAACK"
Lmao
Memory loss isn't an absolute...
No, only a sith deals in absolutes
@@rebeccarock3084 plus, wouldnt It show how she is getting her memory back?
*Ahem!* Keyword: *Short-term* memory loss. Dory retained _some_ long-term memories about her childhood and her family, and started by going off of those long-term memories.
Wow. When I saw Finding Dory I was really underwhelmed while everyone else loved it. At the time I just couldn't really explain why but the Wisecrack team really got to the center of it. Great video. I really feel that Dory's disregard for Nemo's safety and her passive protagonist status are what bothered me the most
What if lastpass gets hacked?
pachuco714lalo Totally waiting for this comment
Why don't the regular webites (facebook, twitter, etc) do that?
Nothing much, until all hashes are cracked.They don't know your private key, so if u forget ur password, u would not be able to restore it
Oh okay I see.
They encrypted your info using your password and they only store a encrypted version of your LastPass password, so if they did get hacked, all the hackers would see is some random strings of letters, and they would need to try billions of combinations to guess your password.
The movie was your basic sequel but those little Dory moments where she didn't understand this "adult" things and was just adorable naive inocent little fish did brig a small man tear in my eye.
Cant wait to see "Finding Octopus" or whatever that guy's name was.
PowahSlap Entertainmint eww you made me ink
Hank
They called him septopus, which means he has 7 arms, not 8 as "octopus" indicates.
What about, "Finding Sandy Plankton"
Is Hank too hard of a name to remember? They say his name a lot in the video also
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Use Brave browser like me and you won't need to pay for Premium! ;)
Why are you paying there are tons of free adblockers
Hank felt affection for dory after she helped him fight his fear of being touched by kids in the hands on exhibit. It's heavily implied that his tentacle had been ripped off by a child in the past and as such caused him some PTSD that was left untouched until Dory helped him deal with it through pure obliviousness to the true danger of the situation. I believe they were planning on providing a horrifying flashback to reveal hank's trauma, but I'm unsure why they specifically decided not to.
Hmmm...we will just have to wait for the third Finding movie, Finding Hank to find out why he does not like the ocean, and to see how Bloat, Bubbles, Deb, Gill, Gurgle, Jacques and Peach escape from the quarantine facility. April 27, 2023, 5:49am
Just wait for Cars 4: Mater goes Nascar
There's no story left to tell. Dory didn't have a conflict compelling enough.
The movie is good but not an instant all time classic like Finding Dory.
yeah fuck dory right
2ToTheDome pls dont objectify Dory
I think you mean "Finding Nemo"
Your right finding dory was just a shitty cash grab, to the much beloved finding dory.
Find dory.
Find nemo
Find demo
finding dory can't be compared to finding dory
Nemo was the name of the ww2 submarine that went missing. The vessel ended up being found in Australia. When the classified files leaked the government asked Disney to make a movie to discredit the findings. I also have no idea what I'm talking about. Keep asking questions.
Our Founding Liars how do you think of this shit so quickly dude
Scar Face He's watching conspiracy Theories
elijah n dawink false. I'm making them. Keep asking questions
Our Founding Liars lmao, yes. Sub
Our Founding Liars but Disney didn't yet own Pixar when Finding Nemo came out
Finding Dory isn't a bad movie. It's just not a great one.
Yeah but who sets out to watch an "okay" movie?
Do you expect every movie to be a revolutionary feature?
I disagree, it is a bad movie. The story is weak, the characters make weird decisions, the ending sequence is very stupid. I think that for the 13 years it took them to make the sequel it feels rushed, like they just wanted the money.
"Forgettable" is the best word to describe this film.
totally agree
Just imagine how the story would make a different impact if, when she finds the shell trail, she hallucinates her parents and we find out that they died there. Waiting.
Anyone else catch the "Emotionally de-fish-ient"?
waka waka
Pixar assumes the viewer has already seen Finding Nemo and expects the audience to carry over the character development, motivation and their emotional attachment from Finding Nemo to the sequel
MichaelH3948 I see where your coming. From but I think sequels have this liberty. To ask a sequel to rehash character development and rebuild relationships every film would mean watching the same movie in a lot of ways
I agree in that sequels aren't required to reestablish character but they must reestablish motivation. Pixar assumes that the audience will care about Dory's pursuit of her parents and understand Marlin's motivation for helping her merely because they like Dory and Marlin. In other words, the audience will be so blinded by their love of the characters that they won't question their motives and behaviour
Not really marlin got over his dickishness to dory.
MichaelH3948 they do but at the same time they contradict themselves
Who hasn't seen Finding Nemo?
I feel emotionally invested in the loneliness Dory is forced to live in. It’s not about the audience caring about loading one caracter, it’s about how lonely dory is and how she can’t control it but still manages to be happy.
IHE?
IHE.
How come we can hear exactly the same music? Is it a track from some bad (but weirdly popular with youtubers) commercial, or what?
Lucas Balaminut j
Lilyanna08 Its royalty free music. So anybody can use it with out fear of a copyright claim.
Do I Hate Finding Dory?
Yah, but what if you forget your password to LastPass..
Crazelord91 I think they can recover that
You can only recover it by purchasing the premium version of it. LastPass sucks.
5:58 But isn't this the same as the initial nature of Marlin and Dory's relationship in "Finding Nemo"? Marlin only travels with her because she can read... Like, Marlin doesn't give a shit about Dory at first, and even sees her as a nuisance even after realizing she can help him. But like you said, later you see the two bonding.
Yeah, Wisecrack is clearly grasping at straws here to justify saying that Dory's bond and dynamics with Hank are weaker than the same kind of conflict she had with Marlin.
what??? i got teary multiple times throughout the film
Marlin is a awesome dad , his one of the braved I’ve ever seen.
Finding Dorito: The Missing Link
You know what would have added emotional weight to the story? If her parents were actually dead.
You know what would have made Nemo and Marlin a little bit less of a useless entourage? If it was Nemo who found out that Dory's parents were dead and had to cope with learning that information through his dad before telling Dory.
And you know what would have made Dory a proactive hero? If Dory reacted badly to learning her parents were dead... and then had to break through her repeating amnesia to make a decision on what to do.
Underrated comment
I thought that's the route thry were taking when they tell her they're not there, that's the one time the movie had me hooked. But nope, a few minutes later she finds them cause plot. What a waste of potential.
How the hell would he have found out that Dory's parents are dead? He doesn't know who they are and he can't tell if they're dead or not.
6) Dory's memory disability doesn't go away. In fact, the way Dory remembers and forgets is not only consistent through out the movie, but realistic as well. Not all of our memories are stored in the same way. Emotional connections are stored separately from explicit memories of past events, and an emotional response can trigger and connect us to a memory, as well as familiar sensory stimuli. All of Dory's flashbacks work that way. And she has more and more of them the closer she gets home - to a familiar place. Memory of skill sets and general knowledge are also stored separately, People with amnesia still remember how to talk, read, perform skills that they used to perform and remember stuff they studies in school or university. So Dory's remembering that echolocation is "the world's most powerful pair of glasses", or that an octopus has three hearts is completely realistic. The writers did their research here.
Wow. I think you are even smarter than Wisecrack in this video! These flashback shortcuts that need to move the plot forward make Dory a less passive protagonist than the plot thinks. She actively tries to remember these clues about where to find her parents. They are not just "convenient" for her to fight against her own weakness of memory loss.
The movie's called "Finding Dory" not "Finding Dory's Parents". Her goal may have been to find her parents, but the point of the movie was for her to learn the limits of her disability, and the abilities she still has in spite of that. That ability tends to rely on her instincts, which she is surprised to find are very keen and often take her where she needs to go, even if her conscious memories don't fill i the blanks enough for her to understand why. So, she has to learn to trust them, and convince others to trust them. She seems like a passenger because her disability often keeps her from being the one who can take the necessary action, or at least be able to take those actions herself. But she is able to convince others to help her, and lead them in a direction that is ultimately successful.
Maybe its just me but i still liked it. Yes, Finding Nemo was better overall, since it flows far better but Finding Dory still hit me on a emotional level during the most important moments.
We dont feel that attached to Dorys parents but the tragic part isn't the loss of her parents. Its the tragedy of her situation when she was a child. A little fish who lost her parents without the ability to remember them. And I think her gap of knowledge helped to deliver the most depressing moment of the film - when it seems like her parents are dead. Also i think, that most of her flashbacks are pretty reasonable since they're linked to things she experienced during her past.
The reunion between Dory and her parents was pretty heartwarming as well. It shows us, how dedicated Dories parents were by putting that much effort into the only small hint they could give Dorie.
I loved Finding Dory! The music and the trail if shells was so beautiful, and I liked how things were triggering the memories. I knew somebody with memory loss when I was younger, and I have memory loss too. Sometimes the most random of things can bring a memory I COMPLETELY forgot rushing back, or fragments of them that help me recall it.
1) You argue that the movie doesn't offer a baseline. It does. The first scene is a wonderfully crafted exposition into the connection between Dory and her parents. ANY parent watching this scene will instantly relate the the feelings of love, concern, and fear that Dory's parents exhibit. You somehow managed to come of it thinking they see her as a liability? That's because you're shallow, and never loved someone. Or maybe you just weren't paying attention.
I feel the point of the movie is the struggle of someone with a disability, not the missing family trope.
Honestly, I was really hoping you'd do Finding Dory in this style. So much of it felt like a pulled punch, and I'm glad to see your reasoning for that. Much appreciation!!
Wow. I thought I was the only one who didn’t like Finding Dory. Thanks for putting this together and bringing up these great points!
But Baby Dory is damn cute. Should have been a prequel involving her searching for her parents that ends with her finding Marlin. Because then she would have found her family to all of us who saw the original.
Maybe Pixar decided to make a movie about how the world is deterministic and our own stories are all driven by circumstance rather than will. The vessels in which Dory travels [read: is carried]--coffee pots, sippy cups, and mop buckets--are symbols of our meaningless corporate/working-class labor or caged domesticity. Maybe this was just a really cynical, postmodern Pixar movie. Things work out for Dory not because she's special but because she happened to get lucky over and over again--whereas other not-so-lucky fish were traumatized by being literally manhandled. Then Dory's luck is retrospectively attributed to some skill inherent to her disability in a way that the characters believe is meaningful but the audience can see is driven entirely by unlikely circumstances. Most fish with Dory's disability would probably live short, brutal lives, and, indeed, Dory's own disability, in spite of her luck, caused her parents great grief. No one's special; we are not masters of our own fate. But the film tongue-in-cheek caters to our willfulness to buy into narratives, even shoddy and cloying narratives, that seem to espouse uniqueness, the importance of our non-skills, and the impactfulness of our non-choices.
Sean Too depressing. The masses want their heroes capable and in control of their destiny so they can believe they can be too.
So, it might actually be a brilliant but cynical movie?
That is one long ad.
For me, what Finding Nemo really had that Finding Dory was missing was the fantastic and moving score
Yes. Thank you for outlining why this film doesn't hit as close to home as the first one did for me. Made me love Finding Nemo even more.
I think to say that this was a cash-grab is unfair to Pixar. There was huge fan demand for a Finding Nemo sequel, especially with the campaign that Ellen undertook to hype it up.
The same can be said about the Incredibles 2 movie that's coming out. Fingers crossed...
One thing that really sets Pixar apart, is that they don't make movies according to what we want , as much as they make movie's according to what we need.
In this sense, this superficial production was kind of out of place for such an iconic and great studio like Pixar.
Fred.... what??!
CZcams Garbage Well, Elino excused the production of the movie, with the fact that there was a high public demand for the movie - in other words: what people want.
But, usually Pixar makes heavily emotional movies, with deep plots and morals, which we evolve and nurture from as people - in other words: what we need.
By making a movie based on public demand, Pixar is compromising with the quality of the movie, leading to the mess which is described by Wisecrack in the video.
Giving in to a "huge fan demand" rather than leave a masterpiece alone _is_ a "cash-grab". The non-cash-grabby studios say, "just enjoy what you've got, as we don't wish to ruin the past." *cough* Godfather 3 *cough* Indiana Jones and Crystal Skull *cough* Star Wars prequels and sequels *cough*
Well, admittingly public demand doesn't ecessarily influence the final product. You can still focus on making a good movie if you know what you're doing,
I personally didn't find many of these problems to negatively impact my experience with it because I felt that Finding Dory wasn't made for people with disabilities but instead for people who interact with and care for them. Marlin is the character the audience is supposed to relate to the most, even though Dory is the protagonist. Nemo comes along because it is important to recognize the power of the entire family coming together to support someone with special needs. It's definitely not a common storytelling structure but I think it's target audience is used to unusual ways of life.
Trey Carlson I couldn't agree more!
Exactly. The whole movie is about people learning to care for those with disabilities. From those who were prepared and had time to adjust like her parents, to those just starting to understand like Marlon and Nemo, to those being confronted with it for the first time and acting on the fly like Hank.
And the aquarium stands in well for a mental health facility where the patient are being taken care of but have no real liberty of their own. Posing the question "how safe can we keep them without taking away their quality of life"
This is what made me stop watching the movie, because that's what I got as one of the movie's goals... and then they introduced us to Gerald and Becky, and woooooow, just... wow. How on EARTH did nobody see a problem with these characters in a movie about humanizing people with disabilities? AND they apparently thought they'd already FIXED Gerald's character so he used to be even WORSE. WOW. I went looking for articles afterward and found one where one of the directors (in addition to dropping that fact about changing Gerald, which for some reason he thought was... a... good thing...?) pretty much outright stated it was the viewer's problem if that's how they saw those two characters, and okay, come ON. Two characters in the entire movie who look, move, think, and act differently, and who are LITERALLY not given voices in a world where all animals have voices, and you're telling me that it's the AUDIENCE that just magically decided these characters were deliberately separated and differentiated from the rest of your created universe?? That's either (bad) PR bullshit, or the entire team is just plain no good at storytelling. And I don't believe that of an entire team of Pixar employees, so I'm going with the former. Worse, those characters are only there to be bullied and/or used by the other characters to further the plot - or for really, really, really cheap laughs, I mean if you take out every single joke centering around Gerald or Becky there is literally nothing lost. Also if you take those characters out altogether, nothing is lost. Any of the sea lions could have had a bucket. And there's clearly helpful birds in this universe because there was one in Finding Nemo, so not only did it come off as painfully, even wilfully tone deaf, but it destroyed all the build up about treating people with disabilities like human beings. Because not only are Gerald and Becky bullied/used, but neither Marlin nor Nemo, TWO OF THE HEROES OF THE MOVIE, say anything about Gerald being bullied, and Marlin actually badmouths Becky constantly, and while Nemo does call it out - briefly - it just gets thrown right back to why Marlin's treatment of Dory is wrong, and Becky disappears from the movie because she was only there to be a flying bucket and a cheap laugh. Ouch.
Combine this with, as the video points out, Dory's almost complete lack of agency, and you've got a film that's mouthing one set of values while demonstrating the complete opposite. I actually ended up turning the movie off shortly after the Becky/Gerald scenes. It all left a very bad taste in my mouth, and unfortunately is one of those movies that reaches backward and affects my opinion of its predecessor - which is still a good movie with some great lessons, but man... knowing that Marlin's just going to keep being a jerk to Dory (it's okay though because he totally learns a lesson! Which he then conveniently forgets when they need a cheap sad emotional moment so he has to learn it over and over and ... wait, which fish has the memory issue again?) and Nemo's going to sit silently watching a couple of 'normals' bully a couple of 'not normals' has permanently altered the characters. Unfortunate, and a damn good lesson in why cash grabs can end up even affecting your past successes in the mind of the public.
As someone with disabilites I thought the movie was weak.
Be Ba This comment is so important.
IHE music in the background?
No, Despacito remix with flutes
I know it as Cake Mania music...
Uhmmm as someone who suffers from short term memory loss as the result of brain surgery I had 20 years ago, I can tell you there are many moments in the movie that resonated with me that nobody even reacted to. For example, that moment where she gets into an argument and she apologizes for forgetting and Marlin snaps saying “Go over there and forget. It’s what you do best”. I seriously ugly cried at that because I can’t even count the number of times I have had a similar phrase screamed at me after forgetting something.
Dory had one note. She was a deuteragonist paracanthurus. They then made a sequel dedicated to her full of plots and sequences we have already seen in other Disney movies. The best part about this movie was the animation, and I'm particularly fond of since I enjoy marine science. It's not a bad movie, but not a great one either. It's one if the better Disney Pixar sequels. Not enough fish 2/10- IGN
at this point, it would be pointless to bring up the animation as a positive thing. it’s 2018, it should look the best automatically. pretty colors and cgi is NOT a good movie makes.
*gently points out norm of the north, released in 2016* i think we still shouldnt take great animation for granted
RaYmOnDrOiD Dory actually DIDN’T have one note, but whatever.
I fucking loved Finding Nemo and the Incredibles when they came out. And I remember thinking that WALL-E and Up were gonna be boring and terrible (turned out to be some of greatest animated films ever).
I'm trying to say, maybe Pixar should stick to going against the grain and being completely original, by making more Inside Out's and Ratatouille's, instead of monsters u and finding dory.
They have Coco coming out this year, it looks to be another Inside Out. Same director of Toy Story 3. And they just announced a fantasy film featuring dragons and other stuff like that.
I agree I felt no originality. Too similar to the first one. It could have been way better.
Finding Dory is about living with mental illness/disability. As someone with a mental disability, I found the film engaging, honest, and heartbreaking at times. I've never seen a movie tackle the subject with the same kind of bravery.
Yeah, it's not about a parent/child connection (like we've seen a thousand times before and literately billions of people instantly relate to). Pixar took a risk to tell a story that not everyone would connect with, but those who do will connect with it immediately.
"Being a passenger in your own movie"? Being tossed around with no control over your life? Congratulations: that's what it feels like sometimes.
Most of all, it shows how being mentally disabled hurts - not only yourself but the people around you. It hurts, it's isolating, it's scary, but sometimes (here's the key), people will love you. Characters love Dory just as they get frustrated with her. Sometimes it's hard to see the love through all the fear and confusion. Sometimes it's hard for the people who are frustraited with you to realize they care. That's life.
That's the real message behind Finding Dory. It's not about the search for her parents, you structure-obsessed dopes. It's about everyone involved realizing that even if you're disabled, your life has meaning and you should not hide yourself from the world.
Dory's been faking her memory problem. check out Film theorists videos about her.
Eli N.S
If you have any points in particular you'd like to discuss, feel free.
'Film Theorists' is a bit of a controversial name around here and probably won't hold much weight.
Squiggly Lions
Did you watched the videos that I mentioned? because saying that someone's evidences aren't valid before even looking at said evidence is pretty retarded. Saying that "film theorists" doesn't hold much weight is a very bad argument (maybe an argument from authority, like some people don't deserve to be listened to because of their educational or whatever background ?). MatPat is not mentally disabled, he can make good videos with valid points and logical conclusions and he has even explained that he doesn't believe in every of the theories in his videos, sometimes he is just giving the arguments to support certain beliefs that he saw on the internet but he doesn't necessarily completely buy into himself, yet haters depicted him as an idiot. Also many of his videos are made for entertainment, they are not supposed to be taken seriously or literally, and it is pretty easy to tell which one are meant to be taken literally and which one aren't (at least for normal people). For example, his video about Deadpool being Ernest Hemingway didn't literally mean that they are the same person but what it hints at is that maybe Hemingway inspired the character of Deadpool. Whereas his video about Deadpool writing his own movie, literally means that he could have written his own movie.
All in all, my point is Dory isn't ill, watch MatPat's videos, he explained why. I don't drink all his words neither, it's just that his video made perfect sense. and what we should get from that is not that Dory was WRITTEN as liar but that her symptoms aren't consistent, so certainly the writers just used her "illness" as a plot device.
Roman Jones
I don't really buy into the idea that Finding Dory is a tale about living with a disability. The most famous joke from the movie was about a mentally challenged sea lion getting bullied off a rock. What about Becky? That bird's clear disability was a punchline in the movie.
I think that the movie was a cash grab more than anything else.
I would agree. I found this movie to be much more relatable than the first, and had more of an emotional impact on me than Finding Nemo ever did.
7) What triggers Dory's first memory of her parents? Just the word "undertow"? No. First, she spends the way to school talking about her past with Marlin and Nemo so her mind is already contemplating the past, even if subconsciously. Then, the fish at school ask her where she's from, and if she can't remember anything, how comes she knows she has a family? and Dory is clearly uncomfortable with the question (a great call back to the first film where Dory has a brief moment wondering where her family went). Then she hears the word undertow, and remembers the song, and then she gets sucked by the undertow (a strong sensory and emotional stimuli) and remembers being sucked by an undertow in the past, the the image of her parents calling her. Then she unconsciously matters "the jewel of Morrow Bay California", but forgets what it was all about when she wakes up, and only knows she remembered SOMETHING. It's only when Nemo repeats what she said that Dory finally remembers. Dory's first flashback and the way it is constructed is a masterpiece on how to craft an inciting incident. But you clearly only heard of film language. You don't really understand it.
Testify, my friend
Holy crap, well said. I loved Finding Nemo but definitely felt Finding Dory was lacking in many areas.
Im not so sure, i think that we often find ourselves passengers in our own lives; subject to systems and random events happening to us that are out of our control.
Roderick Chapman particularly for the mentally disabled. Even in adulthood they still get treated partially (and sometimes totally) with kids gloves. Depending on your disability and the severity of it a person may need constant supervision and may even need (or are otherwise given) guidance in making their own decisions.
This video overlooks that this movie is about mental disability, both living with it and living with and caring for people with them.
Alright, but does it make for a good movie narrative? No.
Roderick Chapman Adding onto what Mr. Chang said, it's about the escape a story provides to make us forget that we are often passive players in this game of life. Finding Dory missed the mark on that.
Ok, but this is not an existential movie. It's a movie about a fish who's trying to find her parents
If you interpret it this way, the ending of the movie is the complete opposite of what it says.
Dory literally accomplishes nothing, and has no particular strength. She gets to where she is literally exclusively on blind luck and coincidence. The entire purpose of the movie, where Dory actually finds her movie, is literally by her failing and not by some clever ingenuity.
So if you want the movie to be about how disabled people are useless, and can succeed or fail on complete chance, then by all means. But if you wanted a movie to see how disabled people who can overcome, or utilize their disability for a unique take on things, then this movie had none of that.
While you make some great points regarding the lack of emotional prep... as a parent, the first minutes of this movie hit me harder than any movie I have ever watched. So much so, that I can not bring myself to watch it a second time. I just can't.
When Marlin tells Dory she helped him do things he never dreamt of doing, it's not completely unearned ; in the movie, he and Nemo did several things trying to emulate what Dory would do if she were in their place, which leads to them finding her back.
Glad to know I'm not the only one who fucking hated this movie.
Right?
I wouldn't say I hated it. I found it very underwhelming and unmemorable at worst.
There's a huge difference between hating a movie and finding it emotionally unsatisfying compared to the first one. Chill.
What makes this movie forgettable?
Her "just keep swimming just keep swimming" (in a seemingly never ending ocean) philosophy resonated with and comforted me. I'm the first one to smell a cash grab a Mile away, but this is a terrific movie.
nemo goes along because we established in the first movie he doesn't need to be protected. nemo is a strong swimmer that is capable of taking in an adventure to help their friend.
Not to mention the over-promoting of how much it supported and brought attention to people living with disabilities while the underlying themes of the film more show people either bullying or exploiting disabled characters that aren’t dory...
Isnt this about mental illness and learning to work with it ensdead of ageinst it? I actullay feel like this movie was made not for normiess but for people who have mental illnesses. The structure may be shaky but thats because dory's mind is also shaky. Tell u the truth i cried in the end.
That actually makes it worse because like so many other films it casually ignores the actual issues of the person's disorder. Rather the disorder can be conveniently fixed. That Dory, remembering her past is something that is possible under certain circumstances. As a person who is disabled, I can't do certain things, the convenience of her being able to find her parents and remember things she realistically wouldn't undermines the potential of it being for those who are disabled.
Its not actually worse. I experince psychosis and to me this was just a nice story that made me escape for a bit. Not all stories have to be entirely grounded in realism.
The real Cash grab...
"Finding Dory: What Went Wrong? - Wisecrack Edition"
Thank you! I left the theater feeling so underwhelmed. Very good points!
I think wisecrack misses the point. It's not as much about the bond of family like the first movie, but about living with disability. All the turns come from Dory finding ways to move forward and accomplish something despite her restrictions. The restrictions of the coffee pot, the bucket, etc represent the restrictions her disability places on her, but despite these restrictions she find a way around. Marlin acts how society act - treating Dory as a liability that can't take care of herself, even after the first movie where without Dory he never would have gotten his son back, placing emphasis on what she can't do instead of what she can.
Do Neon Genesis Evangelion please and thank you
Arc omg I'd love that so much but the video would be like 3 hours long
Arc they'd need like a season of videos to do the series justice.
Arc The philosophy of evangelion is to jack off to unconscious girls while also being secretly gay to a grey haired serene gay dude
Cake#
Maybe shinji is Christian, and his turmoil with being gay is why there is so much Christian imagrey
Just kidding
Evangelion isn't that deep, dude. Most of the characters' motives and actions are akin to what depression feels like, which you can tell was mostly intentional, and that statement can be supported by the fact Hideaki Anno suffers through depression from time to time and was especially dealing with it while making the series (if I remember correctly).
4) Structure. Right before the midpoint, Hank and Dory are stuck in the touch pool, and Hank has a panic attack, and freezes. Dory, on the other hand, remains focused and gets them out of the situation (at least from the characters' point of view). Then we learn that Dory's following "the wrong sign" led them to the right place, and that Hank's assertion that she "can't remember anything", is wrong - she remembered "the world's most powerful pair of glasses", she remembered that octopuses have three hearts. At the same time, Marlin and Nemo get out of trouble by applying Dory's way of thinking to the situation. They don't actually have to be WITH her to gain respect for her. And yes, this midpoint has more to do with Hank and Marlin's character growth than Dory's - but to argue that ALL movies have to follow the same pattern is pure bullshit. Movies need to utilise narrative structure, not follow it. The main theme of the film, that is, that people with disabilities are capable and worthy, is served well by other characters' realisation that Dory is worthy and capable. It's not the disable person that needs to change, it's society's perception of the disabled person.
In the first movie Marlin and Dory pass half of the screen time on a pirelous adventure to go from the great coral barrier of Australia to Sidney but in Finding Dory they manage to cross the freakin Pacific Ocean in no time, that was a real dowpoint to me in this movie.
It's a kierkegaardian story about a leap of faith, that ends with a literal leap of faith
ben zur it’s more accurately translated as a leap into faith.
At the beginning of finding dory you also get a sense of what her family was like, in the same way you do in Nemo. I don’t understand that criticism. It might be slightly shorter but you still get an understanding of the family dynamic and dory’s reliance on them. I agree that the passive protagonist issue was noticeable and did detract from the story.
They explained the beginnings, its because Dory's family writes her off as more of a nuisance, Dory wouldn't really have a reason for this Journey anyway.
Reous That is literally not in the movie at all. Dory’s family never writes get off as a nuisance.
E There was no “passive protagonist issue,” though.
Ryan Paye, you clearly don't understand the context of whats being said. No they don't outright write Dory off, but her treatment by her parents is with more confusion and annoyance at her not being to bright . They literally ask her if she remembers something, and when she responds wrong there is a look of panic and confusion, not of concern. Since this wasn't the first time she had done that such actions make no sense, you don't even get a scene where they look for her frantically. With Nemo his dad is worried and frantic, which makes you invested in the character. Dory doesn't get that so it makes her story disconnected and her parents feel not as great as Nemo's dad. Through her interaction with her parents you end up finding even less reason to wonder why she wants to find them, for all she knows they didn't even try to look hard. That's what writing her off as a nuisance means, and she is treated as such by everyone else throughout the film reinforcing the idea (though they eventually change, its still terrible writing considering the first movie). I thought since the video explained this I wouldn't have to explain what I was talking about. Makes me believe you didn't watch the vid.
there do have a difference between well-written story and those crappy ones, even they have the same elements.
Thank you for putting into words the feelings I had since I first saw Finding Dory in theaters. I don't hate the film, but it's lightyears away from Finding Nemo in quality and I feel a shameful cash grab. Lord help us if they make a third!
Well, Finding Dory is still lightyears ahead of quality from the movie Lightyear, and I still want a third Finding Nemo movie to answer how the tank gang eventually get back to the ocean after the post-credits scene of Finding Dory and learn more about Gill's past. I would pay top dollar for Finding Gill! Which my mom already did for the two of us to see Finding Dory on the big screen back in 2016.
For me the biggest problem was how dory was very unhelpful and then when marlin says it he is seen as the bad guy
Why is it that I love videos that tear apart movies I like, and then convince me that I never really liked them in the first place?
What happens if last pass gets hacked
It wasn't as good at the first one but it really was not a bad movie
it would've been a perfect pixar movie if, when she reached the large amounts of shells, her parents weren't there and presumed dead.
aw god i would've cried if she saw what her parents did for her before they died, and maybe even read a letter they may have left in the sand or something. and there would be something in that letter that reminds her that nemo and marlin have been her family all along.
I really thought that was what they were going for, but when her parents showed up, i just went: "pixar is loosing it....".
it seems they've become like most animation companies, where they force happy endings even if they don't fit. What i love about pixar is how they show you the realistic conclusion, but also show that it isn't that bad. That, just because the ending isn't happy, it doesn't mean it's bad. Cars 3, while not that good, did a great job with this.
I'm neutral on this story. I like your points but I thought it was a fun movie. I enjoyed seeing Marlon, Nemo, and Dory once more. I actually think that Marlon letting Nemo come along was a bit of character development. In the original movie, even if he was going to go on that journey, Marlon would not let Nemo go because of the fear of losing him. After the midpoint shift of Finding Nemo, Marlon realized that he needs to let go and let Nemo make his own mistakes. So, Nemo coming along with Marlon in Finding Dory made sense to me. Marlon was still being a responsible parent by going WITH Nemo, but he also kept to his character arc by allowing Nemo to go at all. That's just my opinion. The things I did not like about the movie was that I got bored too easily when it shifted back to Dory. I thought the idea for the movie was interesting, but the execution needed to be better. I also missed the Bobby Darin "Beyond the Sea" end credits, but I am an old soul so that's preference.
Jared! Dory has anterograde amnesia. She forms & recalls memories more slowly than most people do & needs key phrases or circumstances to be met in order to remember something. She needs a sense of deja vu. Also, you're not supposed to get emotionally invested in Dory's parents or her finding them, but in her final success at developing a means to recall memories without prompting from close friends - essentially on her own - & using that information to grow as a character in general. In essence this movie was the finishing of her character arch. The set-up was all in the first movie, Finding Nemo. The payout here is that she's growing more interdependent, less dependent on others. Dory will likely never be an independent character & that's okay. As long as she's no longer a burden on others & can actually contribute something worthwhile to those she's closest to she's made a big step forward. Dory's emotional pull is NOT her bond with her parents or Marlin, or even Hank. #2 The mid-point shift isn't what Hank says so much as it's that Dory taught him something about himself. It's not about sentiment, but perception. Hank's going to remember Dory because she gave him a new perspective. For once Dory's mental oddities aren't viewed as a disability, but as an alternative, another option. She learns to be confident in her abilities, to see her condition as less of a disadvantage, more of an assertion. This is who she is, how she processes information, but it doesn't make her a victim. Dory has always been motivated to learn how to function on her own. This movie is her proving to herself & others that she is a functioning member of society. This story is all about Dory. Those memory flashes are about her recalling a core memory, without which she was rendered mentally incompetent. Her disability isn't being willed away. She's developed her own coping mechanism. #3 Even though Dory's being carried around at the Institute, she's always directing Hank which direction to go, where they're headed. #4 I already talked about this point ad nauseam in my other response / comment on your other video concerning this movie. This movie was about rehabilitating or coping with a mental "disability" in the sense of reaching that point where one's ready to be released back into society. She's a success story!
THANK YOU! All through the video, I was thinking about: wasn't Finding Dory more about finding herself??
Um people with anterograde amnesia can't form new memories so there is no way a person can slowly form new memories if they have that illness. Also, I think Pixar was avoiding the term anterograde amnesia out of 1) because it would be the incorrect use of that term since she had this illness when she was a child and the ways it develops sounds way too farfetched for her to acquire it (drug abuse, traumatic events, brain tumor.) 2) The last thing you want to use for a family movie (where kids are definitely going to be involved) are extremely complicated and big words. Just thought I would clarify your first sentence.
actually, Dory's been faking her memory issues the whole time! there are two great videos proving this on The Film Theorists channel. not really related to your comment, i know, but it's a very interesting concept to think about
Considering Dory's arc is mostly having things happening to her rather than her doing things, I don't think they really achieved their goal.
Last pass; yea let me just put all of my passwords in one place and trust that these guys don't get hacked either 😅
Madagascar 1 would be a great episode considering it did the impossible and got better with each sequel.
These vids are super helpful to my narratives as a writer and an artist!! Thank you for such deep analysis into these movies, it really helps me (personally) as a creator to see what people want to see in works.
All my friends: "Oh man! So goooood! I loved that movie more than the first one!"
Me: "Really? Because I didn't think it was very good."
Glad to know I'm not completely alone!
JulianGreystoke You are.
2:05
Thank you
so, wait, let me get this straight, places can get hacked so you shouldn't use the same passwords everywhere,...so instead you should compile all your passwords for everywhere in this one place.
RDeathmark that's right. It's the safest measure.
S R have my children please.
RDeathmark it's either that or be forced to write everything down on paper like savages
You guys are excellent at what you do. Kudos!
2) You argue that the character growth shown by Marlin and Dory is reversed, and that now Marlin only sees Dory as a nuisance. Yet it doesn't take much for Marlin to agree to cross the ocean again and venture into unknown territories, he's not nearly as protective as he once was, taking Dory and Nemo to school, they share a heartfelt moment relating to their past adventures, and Marlin is instantly there when Dory is knocked out by the stingray's undertow. Guess what? Marlin has an anxiety disorder. It's a disability. It's not something that a character can "grow out of". Marlin's character growth is marked by the way he deals with his disability. Dory, on the other hand, has a cognitive impairment. Again, a disability. caring for a cognitively impaired person can be exhausting and frustrating at times. And the movie does a great job not shying away from this. But it also shows that disabled people are capable and worthy. They don't need to "grow out of" their disability. You need to grow out of your abalizm. Idiots.
Ok thank God, somebody else thought this movie sucked
Little messed up you force fed us your sponser in the beginning. Please place that extended crap at the end.
Finding Dory: the most effort a company every put into getting talk show host to stop calling them.
When the mocie was announced I was CONVINCED it was going to be a movie about Dory's memory loss getting worse and her wandering aimlessly with ni recollection of her friends or bonds, Marley and Nemo having to go look for her in a sort of "my elderly mom is not in her house, oh, god, where is she, what happened???" with the tear jerker climax being them finding her and her genuinely not remembering who they are and I was very excited, but yeah, no real emotional stakes, nowhere for my mind to figure out where thibgs were going, just... Not many things
I feel like you could of picked a better choice like the good dinosaur or maybe cars
PLEASE do "The Philosophy of The Filthy Frank Show" or "Meaning Behind The Filthy Frank Show"!!!
What philosophy is there? It's deliberately made to be as stupid and nonesensical as possible. There's no "deeper meaning" to it. I mean, the humor presented might be used to satirize PC culture, but even so it was never meant to be taken seriously.
For this Last Pass thing, what if someone hacked that? Then they'd have all of your passwords.
AHHHH this makes so much sense!!! I could never figure out what about it I didn't like that much but you just explained it all and I thank you XD
Make what went wrong with Game of Thrones Season 7
Please do Community
I love this series. Excellent work!
If Dory had returned to her parents and learned that they had been horrible fish (people?) the whole time, there would have been a much stronger self realization moment for Dory
I disagree for a lot of reasons:
1) Finding Dory did create a baseline from which was established the relationship between Dory and her parent’s. Within the first 5 min we see the love and dedication that Dory’s parents have for her. Although as not as long as it was for Finding Nemo, it is clear to the viewer that she is the centerpiece of her parents’ world. If you watched the first movie you can see how this has greatly influenced Dory’s entire mindset and life. This did create emotional investment between the audience and Dory and her needs.
2) I don’t think her parents view her as a “cute goof”. Her parents treat her illness with extreme seriousness and caution. The only reason her father made the cute song is because children naturally memorize better with rhymes and songs.
3) It would’ve been a definite misstep on the writers to reveal how Dory got lost at the start of the movie. Not knowing bread intrigue and mystery, which kept the audience attention. When we find out it becomes a big reveal due to the buildup.
4) The whole point of Marlin’s character is that he takes the people he cares about for granted. He puts unnecessary strain on relationships because he focuses on the flaws of people and how they should be rather than focusing on their virtues. He only shows concern for them when they are gone. Nemo even says this when he tells him “You made her (Becky the seabird) feel like she couldn’t do it!” To which Marlin responds “You aren’t talking about Becky?” and it’s clear that Nemo is referencing how Marlin treats both him and Dory.
5) I didn’t think the character development and relationship growth was forced between Hank and Dory. I think the narrator completely disregarded the scene in which after all the abuse Dory calls out Frank’s exploitive and cruel behavior. After this you see him realize she was right and have a clear change of heart.
6) Dory’s search for her parents is the most blatant goal, however there is an underlining, but very clear, second goal. To overcome her mental illness. Although not explicitly stated, Dory constantly tries to maneuver within the world despite her mental illness. She realizes that her mind is not the same as most people and finds ways around her struggles to fulfil her goals. When Nemo and Marlin are trapped in a fish container Marlin says “She would definitely have an idea of what to do if she were here. I don’t know how she does it.” Nemo responds “I don’t think she knows, I think she just does.” Dory isn’t passive in these situations, but goes along with them in a way that she uses to get her end goal. This is most apparent in the climax in which she is separated from Nemo and Marlin but calms herself down and fixes the situation her own way. To an extent it’s the whole message of “Just keep swimming.” In the movie she becomes more and more accepting of this fact about her and disregards other’s (Marlin and Frank) notions that she must do things the right way.
I think the reviewer is judging pieces of the film separately, rather than as a whole and how they relate to each other. It’s sort of like he’s taking things out of context. You can’t judge the Mona Lisa by only looking at her smile
Too many flashbacks. Enough said.
Thank you, thank you and thank you so much for doing this is video because every point you made is completely true.
You mentioned Last Pass. Instant like. It's such a life saver.
Her not being the driver is part of the point in this movie however. It' about being optimistic in spite of what 'happens to you' ... It's also about what it means to be 'disabled', and what it's like to deal with people who are disabled. It's frustrating, but that doesn't mean we don't love them. etc.... If we see this movie as an account of an optimistic disabled person, who's kindness and go-getter attitude 'rubs' off on people then we see it for what it is. It's not about Dory and her story, it's about the story Dory has forced upon the other characters, and how they change because of her, and how she is.
Please do one of these kinds of videos on Age of Utron!!!!
Why??? What is there to say? It's another part of a shitty movie series for stupid people. Move on. Watch something good.
Katherine Russo yeah, watch a good movie, like Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
CZcams Garbage There seems to be a distinct lack of quality movies these days. Zootopia was the last movie I heard was actually really good, and I refuse to watch it purely because... I'm a picky fish who doesn't easily fall for bait (to use a topical analogy).
MortifiedDumplin zootopia handed their social message pretty bad but aside from that, is a decent watch
I dont think you can with Age of Ultron now after Endgame.
AOU meant a lot more than we thought at the time but now it means so much more. That nudge of Mjolnir by cap. Those visions that felt so out of place. Everything is different about that movie now.
Nailed it! I asked myself so often, "Why are Nemo and Marlin in this movie??? Isn't Dory's journey good enough to fill a movie length?" And so many plot points felt manufactured rather than earned. Bailey figuring out echolocation wasn't the result of even so much as a training montage, but rather plot convenience. Same with the car chase -- it wasn't a payoff to anything set up earlier in the movie but instead required that the octopus could drive and Dory could navigate because the plot required both.
Hank started to like Dory because everytime he thought it was hopeless, she had an idea.
I loved finding Dory, it seemed so much better than other sequels, even other Pixar sequels (I.e. Cars 2, planes...) still interesting to hear your take.
Planes isn't Pixar I believe, it's Disney animation.
EVERYTHING, completely pointless movie that shouldn't have been made, so much that Id say its even a waste of time for a child
Oh a website that contains all your passwords for every single one of your accounts? Thats a good idea.
Marlin: You’re swimming in the open waters.
Nemo: *N O*