War Thunder HAS to change.
Vložit
- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
- Hang on hang on, yes this may be a rant but think of it as constructive feedback! We want War Thunder to get better, not worse after all.
Subscribe for more!
Support the channel on Patreon:
/ thesnazzycomet
Join the Discord:
/ discord
Original video:
• War Thunder has lost i...
#warthunder #history #warthundergameplay #warthundernews #tanks #airforce - Hry
Gentlemen, this is merely expressing an idea - not a final plan or anything.
Leave them be man, in this game you can't discuss anything without a bunch at people yelling at each other.
When I thought of that, I thought that an interesting solution would be to create "War Thunder Classic" like with TF2. where things went in a different direction, like let's say more WW2 Prototype tanks like for example KV-3 at 5.0-6.0 BR range rather than 60s or 70s light tanks, although that might lead to having less nations in the game, it would certainly fix the immersion issue
@@PearManWhoLikesMilk Your Warthunder Classic idea is nothing more than World of Tanks 2.0
This has nothing to do with WarThunder and certainly nothing to do with Classic
Its a bad idea.
@theneef174 I agree
Like most ideas put forth in the War Thunder community, only the apparent benefits of this idea has been talked about. Nobody has mentioned the possible downsides to it and such a discussion needs to be part of the conversation. This may well be a good idea - but I doubt it's perfect and the imperfections need to be understood.
One other thought, I doubt a hard cutover will work well. Should a number of vehicles be common to both modes?
Ya like the swedish reserve tier all being post war upgrades. You're trying to imply those bad fucking things are on par with m60s?
Well Sweden 2.7 spaa is a 1960s APC.
You know the same year as the fucking m60s. Actually it's far worse the m60s is 1959 and the pbv 301 is 1961. Two years younger than the m60
"historical matchmaking" would only benefit usa germany and ussr, any other nation would become borderline unusable. they already struggle with lineups way too much so making even more vehicles useless would not help at all
@@luistwz actually I don't think even Germany would do all that well.
Most heat slingers tigers can face can be dealt with with ease, but that does mean much more mobile tanks like the m41, the spa panzer and future tanks like the leopard prototypes would be removed from their usage at their current brs, resulting in a much weaker Germany.
@@Thekilleroftanks Really? Historically accurate battles between russian T34s and Tiger tanks? Doesn't seem too bad for Germany
Hear me out, keep the game exactly the same, just add a game-mode with historical lineups like in sim but in realisic mode.
With Historical issues.
The only reason sim isn't more popular than grb is because flying CAS in there actually takes skill
@@EmeraldArchive Sim is the funnest gamemode ever ngl
That's what I'm saying
So historical arcade and realistic?
At this point, a Panther feels like a light tank that has a damaged engine.
Play the D. Nonetheless, the Panthers are still great tanks imo
@@Imzeboss it is, that’s the problem, but I always get destroyed by Cold War Tanks. Skill doesn’t matter there. Especially if they are called PT76.
@@HawkThunder907 kinda is a skill issue I destroy pt-76 in my comet all the time, they have zero armour and even british solid shot can 1 hit them. With APHE it should be a point and click adventure
@@night_knightC2 with the german hyper velocity 75mm it usually overpens bc half the tank is empty
@@night_knightC2 so true, as a British main whenever I play the panther the game becomes so easy it gets boring
"you could play them in customs" - eurgh, what a shit idea.
Even better...play Sim
That means that France would have a huge hole in the middle and their top tier tank would be the AMX 50 surbaissé
I would rather get killed by a hummel then m109...
Exactly
The only difference between the Hummel and m109 is one has a turret. Both are using WW2 guns and ammo. I don't understand why people are having such a hard time understanding this
Oh wait I remember, it's the fact 60% of the wt player base are so dumb their last two brain cells are fighting over third place.
@@Thekilleroftanks its totally not like one is 1942 and the other is 1963 and is still in use today right?
@@Vrooto one, the m109 of the 60s is completely different than the m109 of today, literally everything is different, different gun, different turret, different engine, etc.
Two even if you replaced m109s with their WW2 counter part nothing would fucking change. You still would get deleted with one shot.
You people who constantly bitched about cold war stuff being over powered are too fucking dumb to realize that's not the case, the asu's, both the 57 and 85 are cold war tanks, the pt76 is a cold war tank, half of fucking Sweden's rank 1 through 3 are all cold war tanks, and most of those are worse than Italian tanks.
The only outlier is the sav120 which has a glass cannon problem, though it should be moved up to 3.0, even 3.3.
Holy moly the same can be said bout you the hummel is a open top vehicle to allow ease of reloading while the paladin is a turreted vehicle with i think high hardness steel? im not online atm so i cant check warthunder to confirm but like the guy before me its a cold war tank against a ww2 arty @Thekilleroftanks
I am very unsure of it all, as much as people talk about how cold war shouldn't fight Ww2, its almost as if WW2 had a profound effect on the cold war. Half of this feels like a compression issue.
Some cold war vehicles have very bad performance, so they have a lower BR, yet they still destroy immersion and make gameplay worse. The PT-76 for example, if you made its BR higher, compression or not, it would be outperformed by everything. Yet it is a 1953 vehicle with 200mm of penetration at all ranges.
@@novkorova2774 there is more to it then just immursion though. The PT-76 is very much in the same boat as the M46 Patton, effectively world war two tanks in all but *ONE* shell type. The T-54s got pushed up to being the same BRs as tanks with 105mm L7s dispite being very much products of World War Two, the later Pattons then the M60 effectively being direct evolutions of the old Pershing in all but apperance, protection then other far later changes. The problem goes far deeper then not wanting to see M109s in WW2, its a problem of the game having advanced far too quickly after WW2 and there not being enough buffer to prevent a lot of vehicles that, rightfully shouldn't be up against WW2 vics in normal match making. Other times its just... Bad vehicle choices to add. VIDAR is an overwhelmingly good example of that, thing shouldn't be below 9.0 and probably should be far higher.
@@spamuraigranatabru1149hard disagree on the Vidar, I own it and use it at 8.7 and ERA on vehicles makes you completely useless, also urban combat is hell
@@samuelguichelaar6061 Useless against ERA? why are you shooting tanks at their strongest? 9 times out of 10 ERA just covers the thicker parts of tanks like the Magach or STRV 104
@@spamuraigranatabru1149 I felt the same way about the VEAK. Without HEVT, it's utterly useless compared to the ItPsv/Gepard at its current BR.
I'd rather the VEAK keeps it's HEVT and gets moved up to 9.3 or higher. Alternatively, keep the HEVT and lose the radar as the ZSU in the China tree has HEVT without radar.
Either way decompression means some smaller nations have completely unviable or no lineups for ground rb at certain ranks.
Another solution may be to greatly restrict up/downtiers. I'd rather queue a minute for a ±0.3 BR match than instantly queue into a full uptier or frontier.
i've also thought of this idea but it has some grave problems, especially for the minor nations. best example beeing sweden, most of the rank 1 and 2 swedish vehicles are post war, the PVKV IV is from the 50"s.. where do you put it??
the easyer solution is to just do a major br decompression at mid-tier that moves up a whole lot of the cold war stuff. this way armor meta can return at around the 6.7 br without them facing ATGM's and heat slinging light tanks.
the imersion problem will most lilely never be fixed, it is be pratcicly impossible to implement to the existing nations and vehicles.
ps: TheEuropeanCanadian has also just uploaded a video about this topic, but explaining all the reasons it can't work well with how the game works (he might be a bit to passionate about defending his standpoint, but his arguments are very correct)
reality is uptiers and downtiers should only be +/-0.7, stuff like the warrior struggle far more than any immediate post-war heavy ever could but gaijin won't put it down in BR because the type of people who make underresearched videos like this one would scream and cry about finally facing weaponry that can pen them.
@@voggers8901 yeah, or less large br ranges in battles or just major br decompression would most likely be the best solution
@@voggers8901 changing that would fix like 90% of problems this game has, i dont see why people try and defend historical matchmaking when it would make most nations in this game completely useless
I think it's more a case of how the vehicles look. A lot of the Swedish Post war stuff fits in with WW2 tech, like the ASU-57, but vehicles like the Paladin and Leopard 40mm do not.
@@c00kedmilk well one the m109s are all over the place but none are amazing, they're all on par with the type 75 spg. And yet no one bitched about that thing and that's been in the game for like a decade, also the fact most are using guns and ammo from the second world war anyways.
Second is that the leopard 40 could be moved up, it has he-vt shells for the gun it was developed around the same time that round was in service.
The problem is that at 7.7 or 8.0 it would be extremely fragile, with all of the crew exposed and extremely easy to kill making things kinda worse because that's the be with atgms that can and will kill that thing even if they miss.
And finally what would you do for a replacement. Italy kinda needs something in the 5.0 range unless they make up a fake spaa using the m42s turret and put it on a much better hull.
Translation: make Germany and Russia even more meta than they already are
like come on there is no way I’m fighting the fucking Maus and IS3/4M in a T32 forced to use APCR with the long 90mm, not to mention the abysmal reload for the frankly mediocre firepower return and worse armour compared to the Russian and German counterpart. God forbid that they have to actually think when playing
true but here is a tip. AIM. its extremely easy to kill both the maus and the IS3. IS3 has driver hatch and maus Has the turret cheeks. also just shoot tracks and barrels.
@@snek9388 and there’s the issue, while they can just shoot my LFP or MG port I have to shoot the barrel, wait for the 18s reload while trying to track them with my MGs and then make sure I don’t get 3rd partied trying to flank them as a result of the time that the enemy had to spam mark me for their teammates. They are just much more annoying to kill than the T32 is for them
@@k4tana_9 this is somewhat true on the side of you harming them. Yes you have weakspots but here is the thing. A simple T43 round right were the parascope is on the IS-3's driver port will 1 shot it. take out the driver gunner and commander. the maus will be a tough nut to crack but also at the same time not only is it terribly slow. even with a Aced crew its reload is 19 seconds fastest (absolute BS if anything. It was logged to be closer to 17-16 seconds) but due to the very slow manuvering and sheer size of the maus not only is it a CAS magnet. you can just ammo rack it on its side. and even if it is frontally facing you a well placed shot to the lower cheek can bounce it right through the roof and into the ammo.
@@snek9388 you forgot the part where lv100s who are cracked out of their mind and have near instant reaction times are abusing these tanks. Instead of having to go through whatever yap you wrote they just point and click on you to erase you from the battlefield. Oh and if theyre violently shaking their tank and you miss the 0.1mm weakspot you are as good as dead
This is so stupid. So many vehicles would be useless if this was implemented. Imagine fighting a T-64 in a PBV301, a T-55 in a Pvkv III, a T-34 in a Pz 35t, a Sherman in a Ha-go or a Ferdinand in a 76mm T-34. War thunder would be hell and not fun at all. There are so many more examples of this and in my humble opinion it is not worth sacrificing probably hundreds of vehicles just for some “realism”.
I understand friend
What he said was that you woulnd not have matches with late WW2 stuff Tiger 2 Pershings IS3 with something like marder or things with ATGMS lights with heat fs this kind of change would be welcomed one since whats the point of playing heavy tanks at higher BR when your armor is downgrade everyone have HEAT or APDS and can pen almost everywhere example Marder IFV have same br as IS-3, 1971 ifv with ATGMS fighting late 1945 heavy tank,
@@yamatohindeze7442 in your opinion what is the best thing a is3 could face?
People still crying about heat 2024 is crazy...the skill issue continues. And if you want realistic histroical matchmaker yall know sim exsists
@@thomasrebutted4 Skill issue when a round can penetrate a Tiger II anywhere? Are you braindead?
I quit this gsme, this year CAS has completely ruined it with entire teams now hiding in air planes farming tank kills because its easier than going to air rb. Im just done with the game honestly i cant be bothered to be bombed in spawn then have to pay for the repair cost. You get punished for literally playing tanks. If gaijin keeps pushing GRB players away they will regret it along with all the cas noobs thay have madd it actually unplayable.
😂🤡
I fully agree with your opinion. That is why I stopped playing grb and only play arb. I have 11.0 plane now
im on the cusp of quitting this game too honestly. the cas situation is a direct slap in the face of tankers. ive spent a lot of money and time in this game but im tired of getting shat on every update. gaijin nerfing britain again and over br'ing everything will be the last straw for me.
so many interesting games and fun battles have been ruined by $70 space ships with 15 different win buttons that not even modern spaa can properly counter. its getting to the point where certain vehicles are unplayable because they're too vulnerable to aircraft, even though theyre great at killing tanks.
Yes CAS is much more of an issue then "cold war" tanks fighting "ww2" tanks. But when gaijin adds more SPAA in lower BRs to help mitigate this problem these people will cry and say its not historical Lmao
Gaijin literally adds IR spaa, you click, the game plays for you and chase down the enemy (often, with a eccm missile). People complain because they are BAD.
A 3.3 sherman meeting King tiger
So, an M-109 at 6.3 is not historical enough but an announcer and boss tanks are? Also here are some examples in these new tech trees:
Japan's 6.3/6.7 tanks will go up to at least 7.7, the Chi-Nu is now a highter BR than the Chi-to,
the AMX-50 on the other hand is now at 7.0 (made in 1949),
the object 268 is going up to 7.7 (1952, after the last T54),
the t92 at 7.7 as well and also the T-10M is now 8.0,
the 5.3 Comet at like 7.0.
Do you play the lights youre talking about? All ATGM vehicles are bad and almost unplayable except the IT-1 and IFVs. Yes the M-56 can UFP Tiger IIs but do we need the Tiger II having even less competision? You're acting as if the BR system only adjusts heavies or something?
It's good to see people actually thinking instead of agreeing with whoever makes the video for once. I think that phly just has nostalgia and people blindly agree because they like the guy
I don't see a problem with a King Tiger fighting against paper armored vehicles with more advanced ammunition, one slap from the King Tiger and the vehicle explodes, HEAT ammunition is strange and can be very inconsistent, usually killing 1 or 2 members of the King Tiger's crew , it's bad for you that King Tiger falls against 7.7, but it's okay for him to fall with 5.7 apparently. I will also say that a King Tiger does much more damage to the 5.7 than a full downtier armored car to the 6.7, as these vehicles can take a single hit from a BT-5 and explode, for example the two Italian AUBLs from the 6.7
I don't think it's a problem of the king tiger and similar heavy tanks not being able to pen cold war tanks, I think it's more about the fact that most of them are too slow to _react_ to a cross-map ATGM, or 70's artillery, or HEATFS. And if you're incredibly unlucky, even a single cold war tank can kill a king tiger or similar tank in like 1-2 shots. Maneuverability is king in top tier, and the Germans didn't design the king tiger with the intent on it being 'maneuverable', the fact that it goes _anywhere_ is a miracle. It was made to fight Shermans, IS-2's, and T-34's.
@@FritzMcYeet “too slow to react” is a lie when 90% of HEATFS slingers can be killed by a handful of MG rounds. Just use your roof-mounted MG or turn your hull and turret at the same time if you’ve only got a turret MG.
@@Iden_in_the_Rain 7.92 Mauser is not going to kill a BMP bruh
@@FritzMcYeet yes it can, but even if it couldn’t I did say 90% not all
@@Iden_in_the_Rain Yeah 90% except for Germany and Japan and maybe some more nations without heavy mgs on every tank
Ngl these solutions suck and are flawed af. There is no way anyone can reasonably support this
Yeah there are quite a few flaws with this.
@@Boris_The_Turtlewhich flaws?
@@garfield850 One would be the complete exclusion of minor nations. If the vehicles aren’t historically accurate to a certain battle, they would be excluded from participating.
Another would be that many Cold War vehicles would become completely useless. For example the M109s, the SAV, the Pbv501, and every other Cold War vehicle you find at low battle ratings, mainly found in nations outside of the “Big 3”.
Others in the comment section have listen some others from consideration.
And low key, I think I cooked up a great solution in my comment.
These people will cry to the end of days....heat tanks in mid to high BR range generally takes more skill to use then a WW2 heavy tank...So when these scrubs get rekt by a good player in a heat tank in their WW2 heavy that they think is invincible, it MUST be HEAT that's the problem not their inability to play the game.
@@thomasrebutted4 I’ve personally never had a problem with HEAT, to me, APHE, APDS, and HEAT all take the same amount of skill to use.
For APHE you need to find somewhere to pen. For APDS and HEAT you can pen almost anywhere but you need to know where ammo is to do fatal damage.
This idea has some merit, but there might be too many issues for it to be successful. I'll give my ideas:
- For starters, this idea completely ignores the same issue, but FAR worse, at 7.3/7.7 - 8.3/8.7 where the new tech being introduced (lasers, stabs, darts, and thermals, all in 1 BR rank) makes those vehicles with it so much more combat effective in the game. At least the cold war stuff down in 2.7-6.7 all have BR's that are somewhat balanced on overall in-game combat effectiveness. No consideration was given to the higher BR's due to the personal bias towards WWII vehicles apparent in this video; the ENTIRE player base and their preferences of what tanks they enjoy must be considered. To do this, a minimum of 3, and likely 4, trees would need to be implemented, and I don't think that would be viable.
- Just a new tech tree wouldn't work; it would NEED to be separated by game modes as well. If we only got separate era-based trees, it would be just like putting an aircraft in the lineup. There would be no effective way to separate the match maker due to the significant BR variation and overlap between eras; all players in a Ground RB queue would be in the same MM pool regardless of tech tree era. It could be viable to introduce era-specific game modes that would gray out, or block vehicles out of that era, similar to how selecting Air RB blocks out your ground vehicles in the lineup, removing the need for separated tech tree's. It still however keeps the above mentioned issue of needing 4 separate era-based game modes. Do we do the same with Air? is this just RB or for AB and SB as well? Imagine opening the menu and seeing 24 game mods.... Yikes.
- Speaking of significant BR variation and overlap within and between eras, I definitely think Gaijin did a decent job balancing those vehicles based on in-game combat effectiveness. If separate era-based game mode were to be implemented, it would be FAR too difficult to shuffle vehicles with lower in-game combat effectiveness into lineups. Sweden has a lot of post war tanks with low in-game combat effectiveness, without a viable solution to incorporate them into a post-war game mode without ruining "post-war" low BR matchmaker by being all Sweden, or making them a higher BR and absolutely miserable to play. In fact, this issue is present across the entire 2.3-7.7 range, where minor nations, and even major nations, have "hotspots" of post war tanks; this would make very skimpy, and therefore, boring lineups, AND make matchmaker, and/or balancing, a complete nightmare. Ex) The Leo 40/70 mentioned in the video was a 90's tank... does Italy just have a single 5.7 tank in a "Persian Gulf era" tree/game mode? Does it fight MBT's? Do Italian players with it as their only tank just sit endlessly in queue? This problem, by FAR, is the largest hurdle to the idea.
+ In the video you speak on immersion, and it should be noted that separating tech trees/game modes is a MUCH more viable idea for increasing immersion than strictly just having era based BR's/balancing. That idea has been discussed for YEARS, and hopefully the majority of the player base realizes that the game is in a much better state for the balancing liberties taken, as strict era-based balancing would completely ruin the game. Again, think of low tier Sweden. However, the immersion conversation will ultimately dissolve into strict era based balancing; even if you separate vehicles based on a broad era, the BR's will still be balanced on in-game combat effectiveness, and not representative what vehicles actually fought what. So where do you draw the proverbial line on immersion? Gaijin has stated time and time again they do not balance on historical accuracy, rather for the overall balance of the game (although, we all know they don't hit that second mark very well.)
- The "boss vehicle" idea is silly. Just scrap that lol. We all like collecting and researching tanks in our hanger as "ours." Having them as disposable, available-to-anyone, in-match killstreaks, ruins grinding for Gaijin GE sales, and would further increase momentum of matches/blowout games, which no one enjoys. Additionally, it just re-introduces the lack of balance that is the main complaint here.
Personally, and as initially stated, I think this idea has merit, and includes a good compromise between immersion, and having fun in-game with balanced vehicle BR's, but needs A LOT of time on the drawing board. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
I get your point sort off but historical matchmaking (which is what you are essentially asking for) is a pretty bad idea. Vehicles should be implimented at the level where they can be effective and ballanced. DOLLARplays did a video pretty recently about swedens 1950s tanks and what they would be facing (czcams.com/video/eOps_wIVjfA/video.html). I think the idea is intresting but i does need to be expanded upon and explored because as it is right now its a pretty bad idea. Except maybe splitting the tech trees Idea, that one doesnt sound too bad.
I think a conversation a lot of players aren't ready to have is that some vehicles just straight up should not be in the game and need to be removed.
Easiest way to fix this issue in my opinion just add a sub game mode to rb and have a historical rb, it will split the player group but since wt is so popular at the moment i dont think it would be that big of an issue
Bro is getting half of sweden lowtier from lowtier
this a hard disagree from me, the "immersion" makes no sense to me. In half of your games you're gonna have shermans and tigers fighting alongside each other which I don't really have a problem with.
When i heard '' Not as expensive '' i was sold
We doing the world of tanks solution with this one
Historical matchmaking is a horrible idea
It was done before and failed.
Yeah italy would be unless in ww2. Theyll need more paper tanks like p43 bis just to survive. Fixing server issues such as, the disappearing tanks due to anti cheat, ghost shells and so on.
No!
balance>realism
No!
Yes
There is literally Simulator mode if they prefer realism to game balance. These freaks just have a massive cope LOL
@@thomasrebutted4 and it's incredibly unbalanced lmao
You get it wrong mate. It's not about realism, it's about immersion and the sense of authenticity.
Driving a WW2-era vehicle and getting killed by a MILAN, or an automatic artillery piece who saw service in the 2000's is the epitome of frustrating, unauthentic-feeling, trash gameplay.
honestly the problems now with war thunder comes down to years of questionable and actual bad decisions gaijin made and it's now blowing at their face, mainly the fact that they completely loss the community support in recent years (you know you fucked up you game when your community goes against your ideas and projects for your own game).
There’s too many things wrong with the game that have been an issue since its beginning. They just don’t care and outright refuse to fix most of the problems no matter how big or small. An issue that enrages me from time and time again is the maps for ground battles having little to no cover, you can see enemies spawn across the map on most of them and then the god forsaken spawn camping that just absolutely plagues the matches. Seriously, spawn camping in this game is worse than in any other that I’ve ever seen. At least back in older Battlefield games there’s a protection zone that kills you if you’re an enemy in their spawn. Or how in Squad (I love them for this) your projectiles are simply destroyed when you shoot inside of or into the main base. Those issues and shit map design with so much of it being flat is what’s been enraging me this week.
when i got the VK and the first Tiger at like BR 5 and something , in all of my games there where alot and i mean a spam of M109s all over the place , it got to the point where i was one of the last person even in my team that didn t played with that damn 1960 s howitzer
What would separating it into two tech trees change? Do you mean switch them into a different game-mode/matchmaking system?
Fu*k the immersion when you got killed by F-14 right after you get 10 km away from airfield
Skill issue tbh
I would rather like an option for matchmaking with only ww2 to early postwar vehicles
Its called sim
@@deadinside1921people don’t play sim, so good luck getting a match. I’ve waited over an hour before and still no match. “Just play sim” isn’t a solution
@@devendoffing7004 and you think this would be any better?
I was playing tank simulator yesterday and it never took me more than 8 minutes for a game.
@@Thekilleroftanks yes. People actually play RB and it would be more balanced. At least much easier to balance than currently.
My only question becomes what happens to the Swedish tech tree. A large amount of Swedish vehicles that are just not competitive in the Cold War era, despite being from the Cold War. For example the STRV 74 entered service in 1958 but it’s battle rating 5.7. Beyond this BR it might become borderline useless. This is my main issue with this idea, as certain tech trees like Sweden or even Italy become pretty unplayable for different reasons. Also transitionary tanks like the bulldog were designed and nearly put into service during ww2, but never saw the light of day, this being a “Cold War” vehicle. These are the issues that need to be addressed before moving forward with something like this, otherwise these tanks become completely unplayable.
Just start by giving the matchmaking a br difference of +/- 0.7
That would help the gameplay a whole lot. Queue times will be barely longer. And for sim it won't change because they already have a nice and well balanced line up that changes daily. There's also the possibility to change the rb matchmaking to what the air sim matchmaking has. Change the br bracket daily. No more uptiers if you pick the right line up
All they have to do to fix the whole not fighting Cold war tanks at around br 7.7 in WW2 tanks is decomppression or hardcapping around 6.7/7.0 so they dont get uptiered enough to fight them. The current balancing system while flawed is the best thing they could add, with the worst system Easily being Historical matchmaking. If a vehicle is balances at a br idc if its not time period accurate as long as its balanced and has a place in the game. History is unbalanced therefore the game would be if a historical system would be added. Tanks should be balanced by performace and its specs not historical aspects. I love phly but Im not a fan of heavy tanks being brought in as fucking COD killstreaks, Id like to enjoy those tanks any time I want and as long as they are at a balnced br I dont give a shit where it is or if its time period accurate. SPGs Such as M109s are not op (Except the VIDAR but thats for a differnt reason), They are very easy to deal with and just becuase they can easily one shot you doesnt mean they are op as so can alsmost any tank you will face. You all seem to cry so much and get frustrated by the game ao much apparently nobody seems to actually think about the things they are proposing and wanting. The current system we have is as good as it gets despite its flaws
its not the cold war tanks that ruin the game but CAS imo. Cold war tanks even in full downtier are still beatable unlike CAS against which you can just give up as a tank player
Would you still be complaining about CAS if they're were no air spawns in GRB like Ground Sim ?
Huh, _big names_ starting to realise that this is an issue is a nice change, before the only time it was being mentioned was TEC saying that people who want to solve this issue are morons…
But to the point, I believe that there is a one very simple solution to that problem and it's to just split the matchmaker into WW2 one and post-war one. Some vehicles would have to be allowed for both of those, but some modifications for these vehicles, such as HEAT-FS round for the M36B2 for example, would disable the ability to play in the WW2 matchmaker when equipped. The problem is that some of the Swedish and French (or at least mainly from those two countries) vehicles, such as the Pvkv IV, Sav m/43 (1946), or early AMX-13 and EBR models would also have to be included in the WW2 matchmaker for balancing reasons as not doing so would leave these tech trees (especially the Swedish one) basically unplayable. But since these vehicles don't feature any of the modern technologies such as HEAT-FS or night vision, they wouldn't be immersion-breaking in my opinion.
Oh, and I think the artillery mechanic needs to be added into the game to make SPHs something more than just derp guns. I don't know how exactly would this be implemented since I don't think that the WoT mechanic would work here since tanks don't just disappear and appear in WT and thus an SPH would be able to scout an entire enemy team when looking from above, but I believe that something should be added, maybe some kind of marker-based system, similar to what that one guy is doing with his BMD-4 and a scout drone:)
And before someone mentiones the Snail's ultimate excuse - _SpLiTtInG tHe PlAyErBaSe,_ this isn't, never was and never will be an issue, it's just the excuse for Gaijin not to improve the game because they're afraid that making queue times a couple of seconds longer would for some reason ruin the game. No, it won't, people are willing to wait a bit longer for something that's actually good.
For me gaijin need to remore airplane in ground battle
My main issue here is with how vehicles LOOK. Low tier swedish TD's and the ASU-57 are fine IMO, they may be post war but they look the part and fit in okay enough. My issue is with vehicles like the Paladin and Leopard 40mm, which are very out of place. I think gaijin should gradually isolate these vehicles and find ways to move them into a seperate bracket with other post war tech, perhaps by giving them faster reloads or some other advantage so they don't completely suck. I don't mind things like heat fs rounds (see the M41) or with sabot (British tanks), since they add an interesting occasional threat and alternative playstyle amongst the heavy tanks of 6.3-7.3 but the spam of them currently is a little much TwT
The consequence of the current system is downtiered heavy tanks stomping and uptiered heavy tanks being almost useless as their lack of speed isn't compensated by extremely good firepower or armour protection :P
Thank you for uploading this video and sharing your thoughts anywho ❤️
They have been adding vehicles without giving much thought to how they fit in the game.
Lmao what do you mean spam of heat and apds??? APHE is much more effective. And Gaijin putting ineffective cold war cas at lower battle ratings (if they were histroical they would be useless) helps mitigate the dumpster CAS problem. IF you are playing WW2 heavy you are more likely to die to aphe or a bomb...what the heck is up with this cope??
Just a random question…
What do you plan to do with like… idk… Swedish reserve? They use post war rounds, so those would need to go to rank 5 as you said in your video…
Or the American M36B2, it uses Cold War HEAT-FS, so that would need to go up again to rank 5 for some reason…
By your same school of thoughts… a random example, I like 1930 to 1940 tech, so I want that timeframe of the game to be as historical as possible because “my immersion”, so to use what you said in your video “just move everything else somewhere else, I don’t care where”…
Does it sound childish and whining? Absolutely, because for my own desire of having a “historical” 1930/1940 timeframe, I ruin the game for everybody else that enjoy the current formula, or even to those that dislike it but still plays war Thunder.
I find this type of video childish, and classing “main nation master race” type of players…
I didn’t got to see Phly Daily video before this one but I must say I’m completely disappointed in his point of view, destroy the game for a (frankly not small) part of the community for his desire of “my immersion”
Let’s make another thoughts experiment, what if I like only the 1930 to 1945 timeframe, you talk about 1930 to 1949, why should I get your post war (46 to 49) vehicles play against my 1945 tank when it ruins my immersion, would it be good? I take all of your 1946 to 1949 vehicles and throw them into a new convoluted game mode, would you now like play those tanks due to my childish desires? I don’t think so
Also, sorry but “I don’t care” and “I don’t like it” doesn’t equal “the community doesn’t care” and “the community doesn’t like it”
Yes I admit this idea proposition is a little premature but as for the postwar ammo’s. I don’t think they should’ve been added in the first place - having a reserve tank that can pen a Tiger is unnecessary
I would say that different Tech trees are Not gonna come since they would lessen the Grind.
my Idea would be to have a br gap so they dont down or uptier
Even thou i am Not even Sure If this Problem ist even that bag
@@thesnazzycomet WHY do you care sooo much about viechle penetration??? Yes it can pen a tiger...but it deals so little damage, a tiger 1 in return can 1 shot it anywhere. What is the comparrison?
@@thesnazzycometuses said ammo to surgically remove the crew is very painful. I main Britian and I has been a long painful path.
I dont know about the whole "Boss Tank" thing is a great idea but I do see where the idea comes from, I hate loading into a match only to see myself fighting four IS3s and six T32s, but as you said, people who already own the tank want to be able to use their tank without having to earn it every match
I see what he’s going for, but to me this is a game, not a simulator. I personally feel that the matchmaking should be balance based, not historical…
Imagine if someone suggested that WT naval should be more like a naval sim
They'd be mocked and told to go play another game
But somehow when it's a out WT planes and tanks, like daily's video, it gets taken seriously
And the realism/fairness stuff tries to look objective when in reality its as subjective as gaijin's approach
Like why don't we also add stuff like irreparable damage, tanks sinking into mud, tanks breaking down with a frequency that reflected their alleged reliability issues, or the crews being dazed by shell impacts and explosions???
(And that last one was actually voted down)
Why stop at just drawing THIS particular line for a few ppl??
There are games that based on theses ideas, they exist RIGHT NOW, and they're perfectly ok games
DCS even has a naval branch that's looks interesting (although it's mostly just missiles)
Different interpretations of this specific idea are put into practice today
Anyone can go play and see what they think of them today
WT not being a world war museum sucks for those who want that but is a highly inaccurate characterization of it's WT problems
good talk and ideas expect the boss tank. If 7.7 became the top tier of ww2 era ranks i would just raise or maybe double the spawn points needed for them instead of locking them behind huge spawn point need like nuke. This way you could spawn in them at begining of the game but if you wouldn't score any points with it you couldn't respawn on new tank. Another idea i had is making it so that there can only be certain small amount of 7.7 tanks on your team to balance it
This Cold war Split can work as we can see in WoT Modern Armor, they also have the Modern tech but in seperate Matchmakings. It just makes sense
I’ve just kinda accepted bad immersion ever since I discovered that I’d be a sprite fighting mustangs and I’ve embraced it so gaijin should give us the Saab j27 and j-24
Bring the Tiger 105, panther II, and coelian back!!!
I think the main issue has always been and will continue to be BR compression, especially around mid-tier. There’s a lot of vehicles that would be absolutely useless if you move them higher in BR just because they’re in the wrong era. All Gaijin needs to do is add a few more BR’s and spread out the vehicles, but so many people have been asking for that for the longest time and Gaijin never listens.
I honestly quite like your idea much more than (I do not know how to spell his name)’s idea. It could also be very useful in air too, because fighting jets in props is just boring. Not unfair, just very boring to be chasing jets around or running away. The cap could be very useful
IS-4 would be OP as top tier. No WW2 vehicle can scratch that in most situations.
Or the maus.
@@tagnoch Tortoise and T95 could.
@@steffent.6477 And what Italien vehicle could what swedish vehicle?
@@tagnoch They would be screwed. Which is a flaw in the original idea.
Some WW2 vehicles can pen the IS-4, many can if you flank (imagine if positioning actually mattered...)
The difference is that high-pen WW2 vehicles actually have to pay for that pen by sacrificing elsewhere, whereas cold war vehicles get high pen for no real cost; still having high mobility and good rate of fire
Phly proposed splitting the tech tree or having a tank only 6.7 capped game mode/event. Removing vehicles is silly.
i don't think that should be removed or changed the tech tree at all, but actually put some vehicles in their places, AND create a system that certain modifications increases battle rating and/or spawn points, so a stock vehicle can spawn at the start of the match but not a fully spaded, or stuff like that...
so you are suggesting they do what they did with bluewater and costal naval? hopefully it would allow them to decompress the brs as well.
The m109 absolutely cannot be at 6.3 i use it at 8.3 and it smokes enemies.
it smokes tanks of any br, that's like saying the M41A1 should be uptiered to 7.3 just because it can pen tanks of that br.
now if you compare it to an 8.3 tank it has literally no advantages besides the gun which is the point of this vehicle.
if it feels the same it should not mean that it needs to face tanks with much higher reaction times, and the M109 is not scary at 6.3.
i think another problem is the awful awful uptiers at like 6.7 onward like i got a tiger 2 H and then all of a sudden im seeing M60s T-55s and other things that can wipe me out before i can even come to a stop to shoot. its also the kinda weird jump in both play-style and tank down the panther line. since yknow you have like 4 panthers and then boom leopard 1 which to me at least was a massive change in play from semi fast and deliberate shots on tanks and similar youve been fighting against this whole time and then the jump to the leopard and now its bmp 3s and t72s and helicopters and the sheer overwhelming amount of jets and CAS in general its wayyyy too harsh imo (then again im still kinda bad at the game so partly a skill issue)
for the thing about boss tanks it could be a good idea, but i think they should be tanks not normally in the tech tree. they should work a bit like a nuke but like a good half way point. it should be something scary and hard to take down but not impossible to kill for the tanks its fighting. you could also do this for aircraft with things like a b36 peacekeeper. hell on the idea of a plane like the b36 i think nukes should be added to air and naval it would be pretty easy to do. for example air battles should have a large strategic bomber (for the base destroying game mode) and your goal is to reach the enemy side of the map and drop a nuke on their positions. if you wanted to make it more wacky then an air 2 A genie air to air nuclear rocket (for capture the point air battles) which you have to be in a certain radius of battle to deploy. nukes in general i think could do with a rework and different deployment methods like why cant we have a SLBM for naval (all 5 people who play) and other forms of nukes depending on map and era like say if its fulda gap in the cold war era why not have a davy crockett on the back of a jeep which you have to drive close enough to battle to use or a m109 with the W48 nuclear shell. i think things like that could be a lot more fun that just the 4 bomb in the game that all use the same animation despite the yields not matching in any form (other than the mark 6 and 7 which are both variable yeild and are close enough to the size of the blast shown in game which seems to be modeled after the 15kt blast of the atomic Annie test)
Simpler idea. Anything designed before 1949 gets a max BR of 7.0 (for all ground vehicles) everything after gets a min BR of 10.0. Introduce a few reserve vehicles at 10.0. For aircraft, anything with a prop max BR of 7.0, jets, 10.0, again with reserve vehicles
Again what about stuff like the concept 3 which is British at 4.3 and was designed in the 1970s. Sweden has a bunch of cold war stuff really low, a bunch of South African Ratels have no armour, are slow and have long reloads with only HEAT and MILAN missiles to help. Meanwhile stuff like the Maus would fight Comet's.
The only thing I would suggest is maybe keep some of the not as good modern stuff back like anti-airs such as the PBV-301 or the R3 because the only thing those could do in modern combat is shoot down planes and it sucks when thats the only thing your vehicle is good at (especially with how overpowered CAS is, especially when jets show up)
The only issue with this is that the Swedish tech tree will get hit badly with the rework as most of the tanks at Rank 2 are Cold War or post-WW2.
also, I advocate for the coastal side of the game to be added to some of Ground RB battles, like Normandy and make new maps with a large river system or straight-up maps with beaches.
seeing a PT boat shoot off rockets or the Russian MBK series with dual T-34 turrets or German Barges leading the push throughout Bresau or even Eastern Europe.
Honestly it was always going to be impossible to balance ww2 vehicles vs cold war ones: WW2 tanks had to balance protection, mobility, and firepower, but cold war tanks get extreme firepower for free without sacrificing mobility or rate of fire, and their lack of armor doesn't matter when everyone has great guns. That allows them to break the fundamental system of sacrifices that define WW2 designs, and makes a lot of WW2 vehicles not just countered, but countered for free: what is even the point of armor when it doesn't even require some big slow SPG with a low rate of fire or whatever to pen it frontally, but any random light tank or HEAT-FS car?
If you balance heavies around the assumption that their armor is made not just pennable but utterly irrelevant by cold war vehicles, then WW2 lights and mediums cannot fight them at all. But if you balance them around the assumption that they will fight ww2 vehicles where armor will actually make at least some difference, then cold war stuff makes the heavies irrelevant. There was never going to be a way to make it work, but Gaijin doesn't care because modern vehicles sell well, and Gaijin always prioritizes short term profit over long term sustainability
I''ve always felt that they should separate the WWII vehicles from the Post-War +, because of the technical gaps.
the same time split would also be great for air so we can get the old missile less jet fights again
In what universe is this a good idea? For example, the Pbv 301 is a 2.3 infantry fighting vehicle but was introduced into service in 1961. But if it faced 1961 era tanks it would be completely useless, it can just about cope with the other 2.3s
Gaijin should make the BR system fit the vehicle era and not how good it is when used by the players.
Likely keeping things within a ten year era since going off existing wars would make things a bit wonky. Changes to this would also change what tanks are unlocked at certain areas of the game. This would allow people to enjoy the game at any era, weather its WW2 era vehicles, or Vietnam era.
The simple fix to help prevent games from feeling unfair or overall uninteresting is to use a tier locking system where you will not see tanks from the tier above your highest tier tank in battle. Example, you are using BR 4.0 rank 3 tanks, you will only see rank three and below tanks in battle based on what other tier three users bring in from the lower tiers, you wont see any tank above tier three in your games till you have a tier 3 tank in your roster. This would also help prevent "seal clubbing" in higher tier low BR tanks such as the KW2 in Germany being a tier 3 BR 3.7 tank.
This comes with its own issues, and some rework of the tier system but i think it could fix some of the immersion problems if handled correctly
7:00 You can hear the screams of those foxes 💀
Honestly, I'm just getting tired of being seal clubbed in low tiers by some goober in a 105mm equipped Sherman in 3.0. Not to mention a PT76 in 5.0 gets damn well irritating... I think it's more a matter of there's too many vehicles in game than anything else.
this is very stupid idea tbh
I am not a fan of both ideas. For the first, where does the PBV 301, ASU-57 go to in the new cold war techtree? and adding on to the concept, you take all Soviet mi tier SPAA away from them which leaves them with the ZSU-37 garbage. Same goes for the Ystervark, Bosvark, Type-63 spaa, AMX-13 dca... etc. The boss tank is not good, I want to play the T32, IS-4m, MAUS...etc whenever I want to.
I don't see it mentioned but up tiers are ridiculous...
1) Well, first and most important change should be made to spawning a plane. I mean, you bring light tank do 1 kill or capture a zone and then you can make 3-4 kills on a plane, which is ridiculous. I think that planes should be felt like a reward. For example, make 5-6 kills and get your reward of instantly destroying almost any tank at your battle rating. I mean light tanks are just that fast to capture a point, die and then kill your very slow heavy tank or even medium tank that you have grinded for what feels like 1 year.
2) Premium shouldn't get lower br ratings because that's an indirect Pay To Win move that Gaijin makes
3) The old engine limitations doesn't allow for accurate calculation of a penetration. For example, with CA Lorraine with 278mm of pen, which easily penetrates almost anywhere on Panther D or any Panther, I see ricochets, which in the penetration test there is not even a single possible ricochet.
4)Soviet tanks.. Gaijin have intentionally increased the ricochet rate
5) War Thunder UI design should be upgraded, it's bleak and annoying
Silly to have SPA in brawls with MBT but WT doesn’t use SPA like artillery. The have an artillery call button. Eliminate the call button and use the SPA like they should
I have a much better idea that is already technically in the game, and is easier to implement.
Historical matchmaking is already put in those historical battle events that come around.
The most recent one being the B-17 escort mission, where players could only bring aircraft that were historically present.
All they need to do is make them happen all the time, and have them rotate every week.
They could do this for both air and ground. So for example, in a given week, we can have the Battle of Berlin, and in the next D-Day. Better yet they could do this for more modern wars aswell, like Vietnam and the Gulf War.
One issue with this is that minor nations would be disadvantaged. But this can be remedied quite easily. Minor nations are full of copy paste vehicles, and they could allow them to be used in battles where the same vehicle under a different nation was used. And in order to avoid breaking immersion, they could just override the skin to be historically accurate.
For example if you are using the Finnish Pz-IV, in say, a WWII battle in North Africa, you would be placed in the German team and spawn in with the appropriate roundels, insignias and camouflage.
Personally, I'd make a cut out and move WWII into a separate Queue. Basically, that if you want Cold War, the TT starts like Israel. First tank gets 3 respawns.
I like the cold war tech tree but what would we do about aircraft and naval. Also what will we do about nations like israel and their cold war shermans?
I think it’s less of an issue with air battles
What happens to the PT-76
I like the idea but i think it should also apply to aircraft. Kinda like they did with naval trees only instead of joining the same battles the game mode is split
i think there should be semi-historical matchmaking and what i mean is to make 3 categories for vechicles: WW2, cold war, modern. and those categories can never see each other in battle. there would be still BR but tiger 2 won't face centurion
IRL the centurion was deployed months after ww2 ended. So it can easily be argued that it should fight tiger 2s.
Gaijin should just ditch the 1.0 + - br range and reduce it to .7 or .3. Even playing 8.0 vs 8.3 is a huge difference. Stabiliserds apfsds etc. After 9.0 they can bring back the 1.0 spread since it's pretty balanced after that. Top tier is pretty good but the 5.7-8.7 br range is pure hell
All this could be solved by a simple matchmaking divider like they did with night battles. Opt in/out of mixing pre and post cold war vehicles, simple as that.
I'm really tired of all those HE slingers but sadly not many other types of vehicles are left to implement.
The other change would be to make game matching to only only be 0.5 up rather than 1. Nothing worse than rocking up to a battle in a brand new 6.3 tank with no mods and facing a 7.3 fully upgraded beast.
POV People wanting war thunder to be better
Me: HeY I ShOt ThReE gUyS WiThOuT AiMiNg
World of tanks got the tech trees right, and so the matchmaking.
War thunder should really take inspiration from it.
To be fair, having tiger 2s fight AMX 50s isn’t the best
To sum up the video:
Wahhh my Tigers are not as op as a Sabaton song depicted or like that one scene in Fury
If you want immersion, Enlisted is a far better option than War Thunder
i've said this for a long time, about as long as heatfs rounds have been in the game, separate ww2 and post war vehicles into different playlists, i personally hate playing anything which isn't ww2, i joined warthudner for ww2 vehicles, i don't want to be forced to play cold war tanks just to not get bullied by everything else at the br, but gajin of course will not make any good changes to the game ever, so good luck
I think it was an interesting idea but it is heavily flawed, the spgs are not really that much of a problem same with tows and heatfs. I think a big improvement could come just from the reduction of up/down tier to .7 from 1.0. Still the most difficult problem is the dominance of cas in that battle rating.
This really doesn't change how most people would play since challenges would still dictate we can't really play anything below 3.3 and would have implications for crew levels if they move everything to another techtree. Like would long time players like it if the WWII stuff was packaged up and put into another techtree where they'd have to level up all their crews again?
Worse wouldn't this also mean most of the WWII premium vehicles in rank IV-V would skyrocket in price because you'd just buy one of them to get into a 'top tier' while the cold war rank IV-V vehicles would have to both get a price cut and become less appealing to people since they'd be effectively starter premiums for this cold war techtree?
I have had this gripe forever I hate being in WW2 fighting coldwar/early modern vehicles. It takes me out of the game and ruins my focus. Realism aside this shouldnt be happening.
I don’t get why so many people focus on more future vehicles fighting world war 2 vehicles, ahistorical match making is not the issue, TEC almost every year has to make a video about why historical match making is a bad idea and he’s sick of that discussion. I recently started playing the german king tigers for the first time a few days ago and i was having some fun, but there was something that was killing me and ruining the experience 80% of the time, can you guess what it was? It’s wasn’t modern artillery, it wasn’t armored cars with heat-fs, it was CAS which is the real issue in ground RB, it’s so bad that i started playing naval RB because basically every ship has its own AAA battery that prevents planes from bombing you
Rework the entire BR system, separate vehicles by their era (Interwar, WWll, Post WWll, Korean War, Vietnam War, Gulf War, Iraq War, Afghanistan, etc.) You could also add smaller conflicts in between, or completely separate from the main conflicts/wars, like The Yom Kippur War, Soviet-Afghan War, or The Cambodian Civil War and The Khmer Rouge.
You could add so many frankensteined vehicles which would've actually been used. Its a great opportunity to reintroduce more asymmetrical gameplay and nations.
You can already do all of that easily in the current game ... If you care about asymmetrical gameplay and nations then the current game should be great for you. What you are suggesting with the "Eras" and "Conflicts" (even though this literally makes no sense in terms of vehicle balance) is literally some of the most Dum down gameplay imaginable! You are forced to play This tank, on this map, against these enemies, every match regardless of if its fair? How does that make any sense? Also if you care so much for realism you know Sim exists.
The current game kinda sucks, the match maker ruins most fun to be had imo, and the grind doesn't help.
My bad, I should've said that the eras and conflicts idea should be something you can toggle on and off. They're rough ideas. The game in its current state isn't fair, War Thunder as a game has never been fair. If it was, the game wouldn't have the issues it does for the most part.
Generally the game has always had a focus on realism and historical accuracy, so I find it weird for you to tell me sim exists.
I like sim, but it'd be more enjoyable if you were actually able to fly props. Most jets are nice because they have computers which make flying less of a chore. It'd be nice if CCRP showed up in sim for planes that have it, as well as being given a missile warning when ones fired at you, but its sim; its not on Gaijins priority list.
honestly i dont see any problem currently other than the uptiers. We need BR decompression
I sadly does not agree with any of these changes. We don't need to split the tree. Just add a gamemode for ww2 tanks only. Worlds of Tanks Blitz does this, with their fake tanks, which they dont let in certain modes (Realistic battle WOTB edition).
[By the way, seeing 14 Tiger 2H go against 14 T34 is just as immersion breaking for me as seeing postwar tanks in a battle. Thats why, If a WW2 ony mode would exist I would change up the rewards too, and I would remove the winrate. To reward people spawning inferior tanks. For example in 1945 setting if you spawn a Pz 4 or a sherman, you get a great amount of Sl and Rp. As these would be cheap options in real life too. But if you spawn a Maus, combined with a high sp cost, well enjoy your nothing. In a 6.7 you could get a small amount of rewards in a 5.7 an avarage amount and so on.]
Someone in HQ would have to bite the curb
I think I stead of having to have rank v in ww2 stuff you just pick post war or ww1 starting vehicles so the people who just want new stuff can play it without ruining the WW2 games
Gaijin are gonna make it even harder to get to Cold War era stuff then, and I actually like that more than WW2 tanks, since it's more mechanically rich. If the Snail was a good company I'd be all for it tho, as being forced to take out an artillery vehicle from the 80s against immediate post-war tanks is ugly in my opinion too.
And what if someone liked the current mix? If I want immersion, I play sim. Otherwise it’s nice to have a variety to keep gameplay interesting
I play the IS-3 often, I have only died to HEATFS, no other damn shell...
wow my tank can be countered nerf every heat vehicle (you can kill them by clicking center of mass randomly)
I've killed a lot of IS 3s with sabot but I play Britian and US and Germany don't have sabot that early so their best shell in terms of penetration is HEAT so of course they will use it. iS 3 is an absolute pain to kill without sabot or HEAT.
Wow this is so stupid, if you wanted to change the game this drastically than you may as well also just remove all the other vehicles that are ruining you already op tigers . Boss tanks are just as idiotic as the separation of tanks into tech tree. This isn’t any other game it’s war thunder and it is fine as is. Making “boss tanks” would latterly make heavy tanks like nukes in the way that only a small amount of people who are very good at the game would have access to them. Also how would repair costs work? Would there be no repair cost because I’m sure Gigan would definitely be supportive of that.
If that matters for you play sim. If there are no people playing sim then it means they dont see a problem. Let people enjoy things.