Answer Revealed đ€Ż...Can you find a roof leak with spray foam đŠ...?
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 22. 08. 2024
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I found by doing this little experiment that you won't necessarily know the exact location of a leak in the roof if spray foam is applied to the rafters. The water will drip down the OSB until it found a place to escape. It will most likely cause a large area of water damage to the OSB but that's not to say spray foam isn't worth using. I just think it's one of cons when considering spray foam, nothing is perfect so just weigh the options to what fits your needs best.
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Donât forget that the foam is adhered to your sheathing, so really itâll probably keep the water out but your sheathing will rot long term
Exactly what I was going to say.
Yep and a way more expensive fix when itâs finally found
I work for a company and we have a really old bar/warehouse we bought, the roof has been sprayed with closed cell foam. The roof is shot and leaks, the water indeed find itâs way out the easiest spots, it somehow finds its way down and out onto the shop floor, so yeah it makes finding the source veryhard
Also choose a closed cell foam. Open cell rots.
In Alaska we do closed cell with a cold roof (2â air gap between plywood and foam, created by a baffle) to avoid that exact issue
This just proved that when the leak is finally found. Is because the whole 1/2 of your roof is rotted!
Why I'd never use it. I've seem more cons than pros for spray foam.
Spray foam your roof. That is for stupid people that have to much money. and don't listen to builders, or shingle makes
@@businessraptor134 It's fine on an exterior wall, but not on the underside of a roof deck.
@@HTHAMMACK1 in your opinion... I've read and heard too many stories of the mixture being off and it off gassing fumesand causing physical and neurological ailments in the occupants.
And that's why we cover the entire roof with ice and water shield... let's not have leaks.
Just like you donât have to worry about wearing a seatbelt if you never crash.
There's different types of spray foam, that should be addressed even in this video. Closed cell, a dense, heavier, better r-value by volume, water proof foam. Open cell, a lighter, softer, absorbent foam. There's also variations, such as Firestop, and Pro-Fill, as well as other systems being introduced to the scene.. However generally you have your open and closed, and they will decide how water reacts when introduced to the foam.
That's why alot of roofers hate spray foam. A contractor recommended against it from some time ago. I followed his advice. I saw another homeowner have a leak and they had to tear off a good amount of shingles just to work where the source leak was coming from.
Spray foam under shingles is crazy. I'd consider it under a standing seam metal roof but never shingles.
As an HVAC guy I hate it too the chemicals in it damage air conditioners. This shit is going to be this centuries asbestosâs
It keeps the water out long enough for large sections of sheathing and rafters to rot out before you notice. Iâve seen it a few times
If you're gonna spray foam the underside of your roof deck you should have an inch and a half at least of air gap between the roof deck and the finished roof surface. Usually this is done with 2x4 on the flat nailed through the decking into the framing and a second layer of sheathing on top of that to nail your shingles or whatever to. This in combination with a ridge and fascia vents keeps the roof surface at ambient temperatures and eliminates ice dams in northern climates and thermal bridging in hot climates.
Respectfuly.... WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT!??
@@davidfriction7170 most modern conditioned homes do. This isn't the 80s any more. There's no reason the attic shouldn't be insulated now days vented attics are hopefully inefficient. You can't just go spraying foam on the underside of your roof decking though you'll have ice damn the size of mountains if you do that. You need to have a vented roof if you wanna have an insulated attic, it's that simple. It amazes me that people like you are still building like it's the 80s
@Alec Ver Bunker well in all my years I have never seen foam with a gap between roof sheating.. that shit is always sprayed directly on. Maybe you're the one installing shit back asswards.... BTW I don't do spray foam fool
don't claim I'm doing it wrong.
Also I live well below the snow belt so that may have something to do with our differences. Really should chill a bit.
Our ac units are always in the attic and of course we have proper fresh air. This allows us to throw a supply vent into the attic and call it "conditioned space" and that is straight code compliant, homeboy.
@@davidfriction7170 actually the method were using comes from Texas. There's no gap between the foam and the sheathing. Everything is the same except instead of installing the shingles right onto the sheathing you add an inch and a half of framing, and then your roof decking goes on top of that. Doesn't matter where you live this is best practice. By switching your sheathing between plywood and shingles all your doing is traping water vapor between the two. You need to ventilate your roof that's just best practice. Just cause it's code doesn't mean it's best practice.
That's exactly why I sprayed my closed-cell foam to a Radiant Barrier house wrap stapled to the rafters. I also use traditional ridge and soffit vents, that way the roof would stay cool and not directly conduct heat to the foam. It's been a little over ten years and it's been the best decision I've made my attic doesn't get over 80 degrees in the summer.
For the uninsulated area over the garage I just created a wall with a door to enter the foam attic space.
The Radiant Barrier Inns at the top plate with a little pocket for blowing above.
See this is how you do it right..đđ
In UK mortgage companies won't lend on a spray foamed house.
UK roofer here, we wonât work on it either. Youâve been scammed my friend. Itâs gonna be a full days labour before Iâve even started looking at ya lead n felt.
Uk electrician here, won't work with the shit either, and what they didn't tell you is some of the foams react with our grey twin and earth, so have fun needing that rewire on your storey and a half house
It's starting to get that way in north america too
â@@darkwetntight910 100% we won't touch a spray foamed roof it's just not worth it
Same in US
An infrared camera is a handy tool to find a leak as it'll show up as a cold blue cold patch on your ceiling or wall.
But were talking about the roof not the ceiling or wall, huge difference.
â@@jstar1000 should still be a temp difference
â@@variblex That could be anything lol. I have a FLIR camera and it'll find air leaks for sure, but water leaks specifically....nah.
Wouldnt the outside of the foam just insulate any radiation/ lack of radiation coming from the water?
You need to look for it at the end of a sunny day. The dry roof will quickly radiate it's heat out to space, the wet portion will retain it longer. Water is a great heat battery
I do hvac in a coastal area. Worked in a beach mansion worth around $8m that had extensive roof and exterior wall damage from spray foam hiding roof leaks. Minor Hurricane damage on an obscured piece of roof can have devastating effects. In this case it was 1 missing shingle and a short cut piece if exposed flashing with more than enough nail holes in it.
Closed cell and open cell function very differently.
I'm assuming this is closed cell as it didn't absorb any water which is the case
Always wondered about that, thanks. Also, off gassing which they say there isn't but, they say a lot of things.
There is off gassing for the first few hours depending on the foam. Once cured there should be no off gassing if installed correctly.. thats why its best left to the professionals. Been in the insulation industry for about 10 years.
20 years from now, they'll probably say it's worse than led paint and asbestos combined
Apply spray foam to a sheet of form ply then drill a hole in the ply and glue a piece of fish tank bubbler line in to the hole and have a little adjustable valve further up the line and adjust until there's a steady drip (might be worth adding some dye as well) then hook it up and start the test. Doing it this way would simulate a leak when the foam is adhered to a structure with water getting in past a nail.
From my experience with spray foam it will prevent any water getting through however it's eventually going to cause what ever structure it's adhered to to rot away.
But will the leak be stopped by the spray foam? I mean shouldn't the foam seal it so that it is just a wet spot and not a leak?
Been there done that. Roofer by trade since 89 and Iâve assessed leaks in attics with this spray foam insulation and spent HOURS cutting out insulation to locate the point of intrusion. PAIN IN THE RUMP đ
What do you recommend so it does not have 100 degree heat leaking into my house cause regular slab insulation isnât working
After hurricane Laura i chased leaks on my metal roof in my shop for what same like forever. Had a company come in and spray closed cell foam on the underside. it added strength sound deadening and sealed my roof completely no more leaks at all. Been on for over 2 years not one issue. Electric bill dropped tremendously. It all has to do with who applies it and whether they know what they're doing or not.
Depends, is this open cell foam or closed cell foam. Either way, one problem is a penetration in the sheathing. The water may not flow through the insulation, but an unsealed opening in the sheathing could still cause problems and rot the sheathing.
With Poly Foam yes it runs off, closed cell foam. With Icynene Foam, which is open cell and soft, it would look like a wet spot
Now do a test with open cell foam, Great Stuff!
That is open cell silly đ°
Well did he ever say if this is open or closed cell foam? Open cell would be like a sponge to waterâŠ
This is definitely closed cell
@@richiebrown4847 not so sure, see his last video?
@@Anonymous8317 Coming from someone who installed foam insulation for 10 years yes this is closed cell foam.
I am an architect, spray foam directly to roof deck is fine for concealed fastener standing seam metal with water and ice over the whole deck. I would not put it under a shingle roof, which is the common application
The leak wonât penetrate the foam it will keep the decking moist then make a larger hole, possibly rotting rafters too
Open cell or closed cell? Demonstration means nothing without this information
It's obviously closed cell
Correction that is DEFINITELY open cell. Hands down
Jeez, you must be REALLY fun to be around
Oh, I'm a hoot.!
This comment section is hilarious! Closed cell spray foam has been proven superior to batt or spray in loose (cellulose) insulation in every way. It will not accelerate rot as it adheres to the sheathing. If a leak does occur, you will generally know quickly, you just won't know exactly where it is. With batt or loose, it could just absorb and evaporate the water for years and cause a moist environment ripe for breeding mold.
I am not a roofer but i have seen water dripping through spray foam. The owner of the house did mention that 3 people had been out and couldnât find the leak. I always assumed that stuff was water tight but obviously not.
Same thing can happen on a non spry foamed roof, water can penetrate and run quite a distance before releasing and showing a sign of a leak making it hard to find the origination point.
Well as a carpenter when I can see the wood I can follow it up. To where it starts as I have eyes an hands I can touch wood feel it or use my moisture detector
@@user-oc6qs1po3j IF you can see the wood, you cant always, insulating, drywall, perhaps the water is getting under the shingles and sheathing on oneplace but penitrating the wood in another place, happens all the time.
Many years ago I had a hard time finding leak on roof because the water was traveling on top of felt paper!!!! Thereâs nothing new about difficulty finding roof leaks with or without foam. I wouldnât use foam anywhere in a house!!! Did you ever see that stuff burn?? Like gasoline with a deadly poison smoke
in europe it is obligatory to seal off the outside of a roof with watertight and outwardly damp-off foil first, then put another wooden structure on top of that wich holds the roof-finish... so there is never a puncture leak on your roof.
to detect a leak in the roof with spay foam go outside after a good rain and inspect behind the drip edge where the water from the leak goes inspect the drip edge about a 1/2 hour after the rain stops
Depends on open cell or closed cell wouldn't it?
Right. So this is why it is extremely important for to inspect your roof annually for any defects. Also use âPermabootsâ not the $6 cheap plumbing boots. With todays peel and stick, synthetic underlayments and proper installation to begin with? Foam attics when the homeâs HVAC is in the attic is bar none the best route. IMHO. Closed cell is the best choice. But it is more expensive. Wait! The ol saying is as true today as it ever was. U get what u pay for. Pay now or pay later! The choice is yours.
What if you used open cell foam? Wouldn't it become saturated like a sponge and drip out all over till it hit the interior finish?
I recently got solar panels and I didn't think of roof leaks. They did alot of drilling in the roof and I'm afraid that there is a potential leak. Luckily I'm selling the house in about a year. Spray foam in the attic is amazing especially in hot texas summers. I'll never get solar panels on the roof again.
Hmm maybe there is something like wax paper you can staple in or use a repositionable spray adhesive before you use spray foam, so if you have a leak, you can easily remove the whole section between the studs to find the leak.
Spray foam is polyurethane based. When expanded is a closed cell foam. So it won't wick moisture. But correct it could force the leak to seem like it's coming from somewhere else
It'll take water over time just takes time
Now that was interesting test. I personally don't think I will do ours since we're in Kansas. Our houses maybe up north where the weather is really harsh in the winter or clear down south where it's really hot in the summer we're mid-range but that was an interesting test dude. I like your channel. Keep it up
Is that closed or open cell foam?
polyurethane foam is a closed cell foam. it's used in floating docks because I doesn't absorb water.
Canât you use thermal imaging camera for water leak detection can help locate moisture damage. You should be able to see where the moisture starts.
I worked for a roofer for over two years doing inspections and finding leaks, and I almost never had to go in the attic. Most good roofers can find the leak from the roof top.
Very easy to find the leak from the attic and while there also determine if any damage to sheathing, while also determining how many layers are on the roof... I'd rather go into an attic than hop on a roof. Usually just used binoculars to scope the roof.
I work at a test facility where we tested spray foam . There's an open cell and a close cell spray fiam.The open cell is like a sponge it holds water And eventually it'll start to open up on the edges shrink and come on glued from the sheeting
Iâll stick with rockwool and a foam gun to seal small voids
Thereâs a difference between open and closed cell foam too. Odds are you would notice with the open cell.
Exactly! Thank you for the video.
No sheathing. Plus is it open or closed cell foam? This doesn't really answer the question it just shows water running water down a sloped surface. Thanks for setting this up though.
Interesting information.
Thank You
I had a roof leak and found that water drips right through the open cell foam where the leak occurred.
If you replace your shingles every 10-15 years you shouldnât have many issues maybe a section blows off in the wind at most thatâs an easy repair
U have no clue
Most ppl pissing on foam just canât afford it or donât understand the benifits
Pretty big difference between closed cell vs open cell foam. That would determine the outcome more than anything...
What would you do then? Is the only option to wait till the roof caved in? Novice totally asking
Yes fucking yes. Quit your job. Go full time construction build problem solving full time. We need you. I'm so sick and tired of ppl who didnt graduate and dont understand physics or sciance
Yes, the water wonât just trickle all the way down because itâs adhered to the sheathing. Wood will rot, but at least itâll be centralized. Just replace patch of rotted roof and be done.
IICRC Water Tech here..... Spray foam, blown in, bat, regardless. Water is damaging. Doesn't matter what you choose. In the event of water damage. Its getting torn out anyway.
Put a spacer below the roof for air movement, use closed cell foam against that. Open cell foam is just a sponge that hasn't met water yet.
Umm? What did you think would happen? Foam is nonpermeable. Of course it does pass or absorb. Unless, of course, it was a thru hole then it would ass through.....
No you will not see the penetration.
It will allow the wood to soak it up.
How do I know. I had my box joist spray foamed. And had door leak at my box joist was completely rotted and extremely wet.
Never showed a sign of a leak.
Until I replaced the door and ended up replacing the box joist and repairing the floor joists as well.
So donât it.
That's because there are 2 types of foam, open cell and closed cell. That is closed cell, it does not absorb water, so the water goes to the lowest point it can find but it won't be absorbed into the foam.
If I would spray foam, my attic. I would make an air gap between the spay foam and the roofing.
One to prevent the possibility of letting the water sit in the whole situation.
Also, it lets air flow under the deck of the roof that will help keep moisture from standing for long times
So would it be good for the installer to put small holes in it every so often to let water through
I would say try a thermal camera to see if you can trace the water up to the point that is leaking.
I guessed right đ
That stuff is so hard I didn't think it would go through it
This isnât hardâŠ..use closed cell disk but if it runs down open cell it will with open cell.
Open cell will pass vapor, water. Closed cell is harder to find the penetration
Good demonstration
Try that test with open cell spray foam and the water will probably soak in. That's closed cell spray foam
I work for a school district, I've had to track down leaks an easy 80 yards from where the puddle on the floor was at, just saying
Do you recommend spray foam or foam sheathing? Pro vs cons?
Spray foam any day 15 year insulator here from Canada 8 inch of foam and you could heat a room with light bulbs
That means because of the roofâs pitch the water will run down into the soffit then onto the ground, not so bad
But it does appear to deflect the water to the outside or at least away from the inside.
Youâre going to spray the foam on afterwards which will literally seal everything not allowing the water to come in.
Infrared camera from FLIR work great for leak investigation
Would like to see a FLIR on it too. Good demo
Never take roofing advice from Channing Tatum
I'm curious if a moisture detector would pick that up from the bottom side of the foam?
Open cell foam it will travel through. Closed cell it will travel across.
I have closed cell spray foam on top of my flat roof. It has sealed and waterproofed!
Food coloring may help to find the spot maybe.
Nice, if you add the appropriate layers this could be used for class. Maybe enclosing it in plexiglass, and adding a pump to simulate the rain.
First of all, this is a question that I have had for a long time. Secondly, I'm impressed by the way you tested this!
So this proved your osb sheeting will be completely rotten.
Better to use ON your roof instead of under your roof..The rain will slideee right off!đ€Ąđđ
Yeah open cell foam will eventually soak up the water...
If you want close cell foam, be prepared the pay for it.
Thank you
Is that open or closed cell?
What happened if it goes down inside the wall and rote out the roof and wall wood and what would happen when everything freeze over
That's when you gotta look at the wood and see where it's wet and follow it up till it's dry and your leak almost always going to be somewhere between the ridge cap and the gutters
I learned very young if your roof is leaking where it's dripping is never where the hole is
Closed cell foam is waterproof. Opencell is like a sponge
Water trickles, thanks for the tip.
It can also cause mold rot under the house
Why not use regular insulation on the roof sheathing between the rafters?
Because itâs terrible at air sealing compared to foam. Go into an attic thatâs been foamed vs an attic with fiberglass you will find that the attic with foam is much cooler in the summer then the fiberglass and the opposite in the winter. (My parents own a insulation business) Iâve worked with them for years.
@backwoodstrailriders Its seems like spraying semi permanent foam makes roof service/ inspection a lot more difficult especially when searching for leaks. It would be better to use fiber glass insulation combined with a quiet cool ventilation system. This makes the roof sheathing more serviceable and lowers air-conditioning cost in the summer which also reduced the heat in the attic.
@@backwoodstrailriders8432 is closed cell safe to use on a side attic ? Iâm getting extreme heat and cold in my side attic with regular fiber insulation and itâs warping the inside of my drywall through the paneling
You MUST use baffles. 2" air gap between sprayfoam and sheatgering
still no going to find the leak until your exterior walls are drenched
@@danbiss87 Not if the edges of the baffles hang into the soffit. That said, the risk is still there for water to go between baffles and wood. But, hey, it's still better coverage than not. If I see water dripping from the soffit. Then I know to be concerned about a leak. Anyways, i was addressing rot more than leaks. Leaks are a underlying risk if you go cathedral
@@JuystaFan your roof would rot before you found the leak, and sure go outside in the rain to see if its dripping under your soffit đ€Ł
use food coloring at the external suspected entry point..then seal the entry point.
That's a really awesome and legit test. Nice job!
To make this work better you have to install an air gap roof.
If you have an existing roof and intend to spray foam the attic you will need to add an air gap roof.
To do this you lay vertical purling every 4 feet over a existing roof rafter then install horizontal purling and install your sheathing and roof. For new roofs just do the same thing. If you are doing a pole barn then install purling on your trusses sheathing, rain guard, then vertical purling and then horizontal purling, sheathing, rain guard and your roof and roof vent.
Seems like it would be even harder to find the leak if you did that. Better to just keeping an attic an attic with proper ventilation, rather than converting to a conditioned space.
@@danbiss87 In some places every square foot counts. For example in a large city that say has a really nice school yet land is costly and you found a super small lot of 50 feet by 150. Some rules state you can only build with in the 10 feet of your lines. So that limits you to 30 feet wide. Now these rules only allow you to build 3 stories before it is considered a commercial space. This conditioned space is your 4th story. Which gives you much more space while still having garage and yard space.
This is an example and using my method is how many roof are built when using things like tile, slate and or terracotta.
@@kameljoe21 If thats the case then best to just build a flat roof using steel trusses.
@@danbiss87 Yes not ever person wants a flat roof house. Many people care more about the looks than they do the function. I just unsed that as an example. Spary foam can be a good thing if used right.
@@kameljoe21 I think the real problem is using organic building material i.e. wood to build an air sealed home. Builders/architects need to consider different building options that compliment materials used. Wood just needs to go away, and if people are retrofitting current unfished spaces then they need to consider the implications of adding such materials to spaces that wasn't originally designed for.
Is that closed cell or open?
Should have stuck to just filling cracks with the stuff. Seems like fix-a-flat for houses.
I spray foam at my roof 10 years ago and itâs biggest mistake Iâve made, now I need to replace a roof shingles and most of the plywood
Never again đą spry foam
Close cell or open spray foam
Well depends on the foam. Open cell or closed cell. That is obviously closed cell. You usually dont put closed cell on roof trusses
Yes you do.
@@backwoodstrailriders8432 you might. We dont. We definitely use open cell in attics and ceilings for this reason exactly
As a plumber we hate this because it makes it 10 times harder to find your leak. If you took pictures before you did this, that would hell alot.