Heat Pumps Don't Work! Myths Debunked
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- čas přidán 3. 05. 2024
- There are a lot of negative claims being made about air source heat pumps online and in the media so let's go over the five most common criticisms of them and find out why in most cases those claims are total b*ll*cks - based on my first hand experience of owning one.
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Referenced videos!
- First Month With My Octopus Installed Daikin Heat Pump - How much does it cost to run?
• First Month With My Oc...
- How Much Did My Octopus Energy Heat Pump Installation Cost?
• How Much Did My Octopu...
- Octopus Energy Heat Pump Install Day 1 and Prep Work
• Octopus Energy Heat Pu...
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Thanks for the videos. I am early stages into looking at getting a heat pump. I'm beginning to see there are a lot of myths and dis-information so now I only pay attention to people that actually have had them installed and live with them.
It was the same before I got an EV. A lot of the "issues" people use to bang on about are not problems in the real world.
Best of luck on your heat pump journey!
Nice presentation there, the general public and other you-tube channels could learn a-lot from you.
Thank you!
I have those temperature sensors too. I have connected them directly to Home Assistant. For the first few days the battery level plummeted on all 6 of them. Now they have stabilised to 40% for the last few weeks. It was very odd. Aqara support said direct connection to Home Assistant was not supported, but hopefully will in the feature. Now I am not worried about the battery level, I am very happy with them.
Odd, my Aqara ones are also directly connected to HA using Zigbee2MQTT not ZHA. They’ve been rock solid since I added them back in December. Batteries are between 77-89% right now. Aqara would never admit to them ever being officially supported by HA because they want to sell their own hub.
Just got the funds from my green loan from Nationwide, so now scheduling a heat pump install in June and then increasing my battery capacity from 7kWh to 14kWh ahead of the winter.
Nice. Good luck!
We’ve had our two 9kW heat pumps installed for just over 2 years now. Running costs compared to our previous oil boiler are about the same, and noise wise, its not much different.
It takes a while to learn how to use the heat pump optimally. The biggest improvements we’ve found is turning the flow temperature down, turning weather compensation on (installers left it at a fixed 55 degrees), and running it all the time so the house is comfortably warm. It does consume a lot of electricity in winter but as you say with batteries, solar and time of day tariffs this can be reduced - something you can’t do with oil or gas.
That weather comp setting really does make a massive difference doesn’t it!
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech I think weather comp has reduced my electricity consumption by 20-25% in the winter, especially noticeable in the less-cold months, November, December and March where the heat pump would otherwise have been cycling on and off at full belt
I had a my heat pump installed 2 weeks ago by Octopus (I have the EDLA 4kw one), your heat pump videos have very helpful to me and others I'm sure. I had to pay 1300 on top of the grant but all in all it was cheaper than getting a new gas boiler as mine was on it way out.
I'm happy to hear they helped. I bet you're looking forward to the winter now to test it out properly!
What heat sensors are you using throughout the house? I've got some xiaomi ones but I find that because they are only bluetooth they struggle with the signal strength.
I prefer the Aqara zigbee temperature sensor (most reliable) amzn.to/4a17Wbb but I also use a few Sonoff ones (amzn.to/3Qx1fXE), but because they are zigbee you also need a zigbee hub. I use Home Assistant with a Conbee II stick (amzn.to/4bFZr6X). All links are affiliate links!
Govee do a good E ink display temp and humidity Bluetooth one that integrates directly into home assistant. Was in offer on Amazon a couple of weeks back. Found the cheap xaomi ones seem to loose their display as have had at least 3 loose their screens now. They still report back to home assistant but the lcd is blank.
Talking 100% sense. We "risked" a heat pump in a 17th Century cottage. We'd previously had LPG and the heatpump is definitely cheaper! We only get a COP of 3 but given our unusual build etc we're happy that we've got a lovely warm house and are producing loads less carbon for no net increase in costs.
I'm glad to hear it's installed in an old home like that. Better than LPG for certain!
I’ve just had my octopus install complete yesterday
I’m super happy with the install
I’ve now got to get into the heat pump mindset
Slow and steady wins the race and all that!
Only my second day now it will take a while to get into it all
Any tips you can pass on to help me with the mindset transition?
Yup, don’t fiddle for a while! Set it to the internal temp you want then leave it to do its thing for a few weeks until you understand how it is reacting and working. If you tweak too often then you’ll never know if your changes were down to what you did or other factors like the weather
Gotcha, will do 😊 mines an 8kw version of yours and anticipating a good experience it’s a totally different animal and will be interesting to see how we go 😅
Our air conditioner is getting very old and probably isn't as efficient as when it was installed. Thoughts about replacing it with a heat pump? I'm in Canada so temperatures go from say -10C to 30C at the extremes.
An air conditioner usually is a heat pump (air to air heat pump)
Interesting about what you said about Microbore. I think we've got 8mm in our new build and I have various opinions from "It'll be fine" to "need it all replacing. Would rather leave it as it is mind...
I'm sure 8mm would work, but it would be much less efficient. I am surprised my 10mm microbore works as well at it does though. I've a friend who has 8mm microbore and they have had a high temperature heat pump put in because of that... it'll be next winter until I find out how well that works though.
It does also depend on the length (that's what she said). If you've got 10m of microbore going to each rad then you're gonna have lower efficiency. If it's a 15mm main line with 1-2m 8mm tails you'll be much better off.
After British gas emailed me saying they are now installing in my area (Sussex) I had them out for a survey. They were nearly 2 hours early and gone in 30 mins ,said company policy won’t connect to microbore of any kind mine was 10 mm . I upgraded all the rads over the winter to t22s and boiler ran all winter at 45c for heating . They said all still need ripping out on top of the £5000 for a repipe alone so that was that . Octopus and edf said no problem.
I was curious so i just checked the break even point based on my current prices was a scop of 3.334 ishnot including cost of the install, if i managed to get a scop of 3.8, then the price difference for me would between a new combi boiler and a heat pump would take around 20 years to recover which i wouldnt be against.
Just for reference the qoute from octopus for me was £5335 and a new combi boiler with hive was £3550.
Which doesn't put me off, but i will wait till my current boiler is showing signs of failing.
Please keep in mind that the concept of breaking even with a heating system is not really a sensible thing. I know it's technically possible, but its primary purpose is to heat your home as efficiently as possible, not earn you a profit. You wouldn't calculate a break-even on a new kitchen, bathroom, or roof, so why a heating system? Its value is not in what it saves you monetarily, it's in the comfort it provides you in your home and the reduced carbon footprint over its lifespan.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech I'm calculating the break even point between a new boiler and the heat pump price difference. But I may not have made that clear. But thank you for making sure:) I know a new kitchen or heating is not an investment, sadly me getting a new kitchen won't get me any closer to retiring :(
Hive is a very poor stat it does not have load or weather compensation thus does not modulate boiler. With this in mind your new boiler won't be making its potential 90% efficiency and will make 70/80%. Rework your numbers using Theses numbers and you'll find scop of 3 is a more realistic break even number.
@@mattmackenzie1111 I did read bad reviews about hive, but your right. Thanks for sharing ☺️
I too have a Diakin heatpump installed by octopus and I was totally amazed at how quiet it is. As for efficiency the best boilers are no more that 88% efficient over their heating cycle their only highly efficient when the water temperature is below 55°c and most people run gas at higher temperatures. As for noise as they get older yes faulty bearings can make a noise but the very cheap to replace as part of a service contract. We are quite old and my wife needs a living room has to be at 22.5° our heatpump easily does it. I got a Quote from a Heat geek it was almost twice that of Octopus 🐙 and as I’ve both solar and batteries I wasn’t interested in getting COPs of 5 and frankly for the extra near £7000 that it would cost, it wasn’t worth it.
Everyone has their own priorities for heating their home, I get it! It will be very interesting to see just what the Octopus Cosy 6 is like when it arrives on the market later this year.
I had octopus fit my heat pump also, heating side has been fantastic, but the hot water...
All the settings are target temp 48 reheat 43, but for some reason it only actually heats to 43 and reheats at 35.
2 weeks wait before octopus can send anyone out...
That sounds like standard behaviour for reheat mode. If you want it to heat to 48 then you have to set an actual schedule for it. In the Onecta app, open the Hot Water section, tap the schedule, manage schedules and create a schedule (if one doesn't already exist) that has a defined period labelled 'Comfort Mode'. The rest of the time can be 'Off'. During the Comfort Mode time (I set this for 2 hours at night off-peak) the tank will heat up to 48 degrees. During the Off time the tank will do nothing unless the temperature drops below about 35 degrees at which point it will do an emergency boost back up to 43. I think your situation is really easy to fix by just creating a schedule, I could be wrong but your reported symptoms match exactly the functionality I am aware of.
My days, thank you so much. Octopus has been no help but 5 minutes later we have hot water.
As regards the app, mine doesn't have any WiFi options, am I right in thinking I need to buy the add on to connect the WiFi up?
Seems odd nowadays to not have it built in as standard
Did you set the hot water schedule using the MMI display on your wall then? Octopus supply a Wifi adapter inside the MMI by default and it was (as far as I know) their standard practise from the beginning to configure this before leaving.
My Mum made me laugh. She used to turn on the heating manually when she wanted it when she had gas. Now she has her heat pump and it just keeps her house warm all the time. She said it was nice to come home to a warm house. I know she could have done it via gas, but it just made me smile. As an aside, how dare you use the term common sense in a heat pump video 🤣
Yeah I know so many people who still operate their heating manually just turning it on for the few hours they want the house warm. It's just so much more pleasant now we have an even heat throughout!
I am glad heat pumps have worked for you. I agree there are myths about heat pumps but there also significant problems for most people. I understand you want to defend your installation but you can only claim what your experience has been. You aren't in a position to debunk what others find. 23% of houses are detached, 31% are semi detached & 23% are terraced of this stock 50% are older than 1960. Some houses can be insulated and have space to put large radiators and kit required to support the system. A lot cannot. I wonder if you would have the same thoughts if you lived in a Victorian semi with no cavity walls and an R value that means several degrees heat loss per hour? But, I am really glad it works for you. I believe a lot of the bad thoughts many have with regard to Heat Pumps is due to the governments desire to force these on everyone. Space, Money, the need for higher output are all concerns for many. lets hope technology or government common sense for a mixed solution prevales.
I don't think they're being forced on anyone. Yes, gas boilers are being phased out forcing a change of some kind but heat pumps are just one (and currently the most efficient) alternative. I admit they aren't the optimum solution for all homes though. In the case of high heat loss, a high temperature heat pump may be suitable at the expensive of some of that efficiency. There are many other solutions though using electricity instead of gas. Keep in mind also that the general opposition to heat pumps appears to be a mostly British phenomenon. If you walk around most European or American urban/sub-urban areas you will see air conditioning units galore hanging off the sides of residential buildings. These are just air-to-air heat pumps and are a perfectly valid solution for many homes in the UK too. Eventually gas will just be too expensive by comparison, although I that scenario isn't likely for a decade or so.
Times they are a moving and one will have to change with the times. After all central heating is relatively new in fact the rush to install started in the early sixties when I was a heating engineer. Before that it was coal fires hot feet and a cold neck from the draft whistling across the room to feed a 5% efficient open fire. Now it’s time for gas to die a death and renewables to take its place. Octopus are developing and have on trial a heatpump that heats up to 80°c as a direct replacement for gas and oil.
I have had an ASHP for 2 years now and the house has been continuously warm, the ASHP runs nice and quiet. Not many days are below freeazing, so overall they do not make a huge difference. Our home insulation was found to be deficient (a Spray on foam), so I paid for it to be removed and then replaced with new bonded beads.
1st year with no/little cavity insulation was 3335kWh, next year was 2475kWh. This would cost £643.50 if all was used at peak cost of 26 pence per kWH. However 6 hurs per night at 7.5 pence per kWh and sunny cold days mean solar is used and in reality it costs less. My house is a large 4/5 bed detached 1970's house.
Good insulation compared to none saves around 30%
That's good going for a house that age! My ASHP has used 1646kWh so far since it was installed in December, plus another 35 for the immersion! I'm looking forward to getting a full 12 months of data.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Ours is including the DHW via the ASHP. I stopped using the Myenergi Eddi to heat the water when Octopus were nice enough to pay 15p per kWH for our exports!
I've set it all up from the wall unit, I cannot see any WiFi options and if there is any the guys who installed never mentioned it.
It is was installed by Octopus then definitely contact them about that, I'm pretty certain their standard is to install the Wifi module in the wall unit unless perhaps they didn't do that with earlier installs. It's just a little card (SD card sized thing) that slots in the left-hand side and then you can add it to a Wifi network using the menu. Worth checking the card isn't in there already to be honest.
Honestly you are a genius.
I have located the card, after much faffing and the whole front plate falling off several times the wifi is showing.
I card looked like it was wedged in at a funny angle , it was almost impossible to get out.
It's all back together, did a reboot and wifi is up.
Thank you so much.
Octopus need you as a support contact
Haha nah, I don't want to take those calls! Glad to hear it's all working.
You make some good observations here but there are a couple of things that are a little simplistic here.
Heat pumps efficiency drops as it has to work harder when the temperature drops. A boiler will always produce the same output (I know that’s a bit simplistic too as there are condensing gains to consider) yes you will use more gas since the heat loss is higher but you will use relatively more electricity on an increasing curve as the temperature reduces.
The noise they generate is very much relative to the environment and peoples hearing sensitivity. I’ve seen this type of oh it’s not noisy test before but they are always during the day and it seems always when the sun is shining. Maybe you should be testing in the middle of the night in summer when the hot water heating cycle is on, especially when you have a legionella cycle programmed in.
I dread one of these being put too close to my bedroom window. I know there are planning restrictions, but the last thing I want is noise when I’m trying to goto sleep. If it dosnt affect me then I have absolutely no issue with the fan noise but if it does then there’s going to be a problem. It only takes a few nights sleep deprivation to ruin your quality of life.
I’m certainly not int he “they don’t work” camp but like EVs there are really good use cases and not so good use cases and it shouldn’t be about mandating a specific solution that, in so cases (even though rare) are not suitable.
But it is interesting to hear real world examples from actual tech clues up users who can back up their opinions with data and fact rather than the Anti brigade.
I agree it's not suitable for all circumstances but as for noise, honestly even when going full pelt it's not awful - it's close to my bedroom's en-suite window and I don't notice it, and it only runs at full speed/noise for short periods of time. I like my sleep so I haven't got up in the night to monitor that... maybe I will to prove it! I also agree the efficiency drops at lower temperatures which is why I consider the SCOP, the average efficiency over the whole winter period for comparison against the boiler. I'll be putting a video together with that data in over the summer.
I have a 6KW unit right outside a bedroom window, we live in a bungalow and even when it is running harder my daughter says she can hear something but it is not intrusive.
Her headboard is about 1M from the unit.
My next doors combi boiler is a noisy as heck screaming fan in the flue, and no it's not the bearings, it's not that old, just moving a lot of air in a small diameter tube. approx 3-4" dia.
We have two heat pumps that are outside our lounge windows and thus underneath our bedroom window. In the evening yes you can hear the heat pump thrumbing but its hardly noticeable with the TV on. At night we set the house temperature back by 2 degrees so most of the time the house retains its heat sufficiently and the heat pump isn’t on. On very cold nights it is on, and you can hear it in the bedroom, but it doesn’t disturb our sleep at all
Boilers definitely don't have a fixed efficiency and the scop rating gives and average efficiency over the year.
And you get to do the smug face look to everyone who said it wouldn't work 🎉
Thank you!
Please please stay the hell away from ASHPs. We did it and we have been paying around £500 per months. The ASHP is using up 80%-90% of the power household usage. I wish I could go back and just get a gas boiler.
That sounds like you have a poorly installed or specified system. Given the amount you are paying to run it it would be worthwhile spending a bit on a Heat Geek consultant to find out what’s wrong. If they can sort it for you then it wouldn’t take long to recoup that expense in savings given what you are paying
A somewhat limited viewpoint to put it lightly and more indicative of poor installation, given that many others, myself included, are very happy with their ASHP and COP of 4.5+ (even with microbore)
The issue is indeed bad installation, but also the fact that If you expect the same heating as you were on gas, you will never achieve it and cheaper. The cost per kWh heating is double or triple for the heat pump.
I used a heat geek approved installer, as I thought I was safe. I now have to beg and pay through the nose to find a heat geek elite, or someone that know heat pumps to come over and assess the installation.
The issue with ASHP is that 95% of installers have no idea what they do, or use a cookie cutter design. The other 5% are extremely hard to get hold of. So yes, whe good installers are so scarce and hard to find, my recommendation is to stay away. I can guarantee you that for every good installation, you get at least 10 bad ones.
Another thing that no one tells you, is that once your ASHP has been commissioned, that is it. You are left on your own to figure out if it is efficient or not, and then work it out how to sort it out. Also the good installers hate sorting out bad installations.
So again, the UK market is not ready for ASHP, but who care when the consumer is left holding the bag. And maybe you should also cover what happens when OFGEM picks your installation and what's to do an Audit because of the BUS grant you got.
@@MCow123 my problem is that I never saw any CZcams videos of people complaining, just positive videos stating how great ASHP were. I am not a specialist, so I have no idea how to police a installer making sure they do a good job. I rely on them. I now have to get an assessment done, and start legal procedures.
The other important information that gets lost is that if you are used to let's say 22 to 23 degrees in your home, and expect a heat pump to do the same for the same cost of gas, keep dreaming. In our case we always had the temperature at a minimum of 22 degrees, with the boiler running non stop, varying the temperature manually as needed, between 32 degrees and 72 degrees. Our cost and consumption has been constant for the last 10 years.
@@DragonXDrei I can only speak from my experience so covering a BUS audit is not something I could do unless they chose me. Octopus Energy who installed mine have not left me in the lurch in terms of efficiency. They visited on a follow-up and checked the curve, and they’ll be back in a few months to service and check that over again too.