Thanks for the vid. As a salamanders player myself I am always interested to hear what others think, especially those coming at it from a "neutral" position. I certainly agree that they aren't unplayable but they are definitely down the bottom of the roster outside of certain situations (like ZM). The main issue I personally have (which you alluded too) is that you are relying on your opponent to allow you to actually use your special rules, unlike other legions who don't have to do anything to get their rules. As you said IWND sounds great, but in practice maybe getting 1 roll on a unit is actually really meh. The RoW are massively restrictive and force certain consuls, neither of which are fantastic and shoehorn you into a specific play style. This is then worsened when you pick warlord traits, as unless you are going to a guaranteed Loyalist vs Traitor event there is no guarantee you will meet Fear or traitors (and even then fear might not factor). Again, other legions don't have these types of restrictions or negatives and having a negative spin on our reaction is a real kick (I know there are few with things like gets hot, but atleast you get a save there). My other gripe is a lack of flavour and theme in the legion. It really feels like Sallies have suffered from being unloved and almost forgotten by the rules team. Having no special characters (because models were never made for them, even though sisters of silence randomly got units that don't exist), overpriced wargear (the mantle, I suspect it did give EW in draft hence the high cost but then they changed) and lack of melee weapon options is a real shame and leaves them feeling a bit like a vanilla legion. You are forced to rely on pyros and firedrakes as they are the only real punch out of the sallies which again restricts how you play. All the above said, I have enjoyed playing them because it feels like an achievement when you win a game, especially when playing against things like AL, SW, NL and other legions with good and always on perks.
100% agree with all points you’ve said mate! And glad to hear that my “neutral” position views are helpful or even just good to listen to so thank a ton!
My Salamanders are traitor! I preferred the warlord trait, plus Awakening rite. I like that they're a challenging legion to play. I'm working on more transports to lean into a mechanised force to help get into short range quickly.
@@BearfootMiniatures Rhinos are the plan, thugh if they prove too squishy I might invest in some land raiders. I really like the look of the Rhino, the new Deimos kits are great as well (though the floorpiece is a pain to build).
So slightly related has actually come up recently: the templates but says you “can fire snapshots by rolling a d3 for number of hits) So that’d seem to mean you can choose to roll a d3 instead of the template so if your behind squad mates you could still shoot?! It needs more of a discussion though before I’d say I was 100% happy with it but I was swayed the other day enough to let someone do it to me: worth reading through
just started the video but really appreciate your legion talk videos. I have a Salamanders force themed and tailored exclusively to use in Zone Mortalis. I really enjoy them for ZM.
Redemption of Flames only grants the bonus to the warlord and the unit joins, not the whole army. With that said, Redemption of Flames is also the only Salamanders-specific warlord trait that doesn't restrict you from taking Destroyer squads or Moritats in a Salamanders army, save for taking the Covenant of Fire Rite of War (Awakening Fire merely prevents you from taking units and characters with jump packs). Be it a Moritat attached to a Dragon's Breath Hand Flamer destroyer squad or another independent character attached to any other squad equipped with flame or volkite weapons, the warlord is ripe for some interesting plays a prospective Traitor Salamanders player could make use of.
Ooops did I say the whole army in there?! Definately a great shout for traitor moritat popping out of a squad for a ton of shots! It’s a shame the warlord can’t join a squad the moritats in for some tasty flaming there!
@@BearfootMiniatures One option that works really well is a command retinue equipped with volkite chargers. Suddenly 16 shots wounding on 2+ vs marines with deflagrate makes for fun times.
I think in all the Shattered Legions there's a 'lore legitimate' option for a no-longer-loyal, rather than traitor option Same could apply for Night Lords or Iron Warriors who, say see what the Word Bearers/Emperor's Children are up to, and go "erm [censored] that! We didn't sign of up for this [bull guano]"
Ye I suppose, like how some of the Iron hands begin to despise ferrus along the lines of the flesh is weak Disagree on the iron warriors though, they’re just legion traitors with no legit reason and all must be purged!
They don't get any buffs to using melta weapons at all. It's purely a flavor thing. I really wish they did something for melta weapons. I'm in the camp of "they're fine", but they are definitely in the bottom 2 or 3. What hurts me is that I built my army to be more mechanized and reliant on durability, and my main opponent just happens to have an army that perfectly counters mine (loyalist Iron Warriors with lots of Strength 8 (not counting legion rule) shooting, so I can't even take advantage of multi wound models or feel no pain, or Weight of Duty, and 4 dreads). I'm starting to get salty of how little salamanders have, and the little they have, other legions just do whatever they do better.
I agree with you there, hopefully they’ll get a proper bump when things get updated (like I know it shouldn’t need it but there’s always one that does)
Thanks for the vid. As a salamanders player myself I am always interested to hear what others think, especially those coming at it from a "neutral" position. I certainly agree that they aren't unplayable but they are definitely down the bottom of the roster outside of certain situations (like ZM). The main issue I personally have (which you alluded too) is that you are relying on your opponent to allow you to actually use your special rules, unlike other legions who don't have to do anything to get their rules. As you said IWND sounds great, but in practice maybe getting 1 roll on a unit is actually really meh.
The RoW are massively restrictive and force certain consuls, neither of which are fantastic and shoehorn you into a specific play style. This is then worsened when you pick warlord traits, as unless you are going to a guaranteed Loyalist vs Traitor event there is no guarantee you will meet Fear or traitors (and even then fear might not factor). Again, other legions don't have these types of restrictions or negatives and having a negative spin on our reaction is a real kick (I know there are few with things like gets hot, but atleast you get a save there).
My other gripe is a lack of flavour and theme in the legion. It really feels like Sallies have suffered from being unloved and almost forgotten by the rules team. Having no special characters (because models were never made for them, even though sisters of silence randomly got units that don't exist), overpriced wargear (the mantle, I suspect it did give EW in draft hence the high cost but then they changed) and lack of melee weapon options is a real shame and leaves them feeling a bit like a vanilla legion. You are forced to rely on pyros and firedrakes as they are the only real punch out of the sallies which again restricts how you play.
All the above said, I have enjoyed playing them because it feels like an achievement when you win a game, especially when playing against things like AL, SW, NL and other legions with good and always on perks.
100% agree with all points you’ve said mate! And glad to hear that my “neutral” position views are helpful or even just good to listen to so thank a ton!
@@BearfootMiniatures Keep up the content! I enjoy all your bat reps and legion reviews! Not sure why I put "" around neutral lol 🤣
@@martynsmith820 Nono I think the “” was spot on, definately subconscious traitor bias
My Salamanders are traitor! I preferred the warlord trait, plus Awakening rite. I like that they're a challenging legion to play. I'm working on more transports to lean into a mechanised force to help get into short range quickly.
Good to hear mate! For the Warmaster!
Are you going heavy for the transports (land raiders/Spartans) or rhino rush style?
@@BearfootMiniatures Rhinos are the plan, thugh if they prove too squishy I might invest in some land raiders. I really like the look of the Rhino, the new Deimos kits are great as well (though the floorpiece is a pain to build).
You get to do wall of death with return fire if you within 8” so Vulcans shooting reaction is very helpful
So slightly related has actually come up recently: the templates but says you “can fire snapshots by rolling a d3 for number of hits)
So that’d seem to mean you can choose to roll a d3 instead of the template so if your behind squad mates you could still shoot?!
It needs more of a discussion though before I’d say I was 100% happy with it but I was swayed the other day enough to let someone do it to me: worth reading through
Worth noting that the Mantle of the Eldar Drake can be given to a terminator praetor, while the Mantle of Ultramar cannot.
Potentially, such a head scratcher really, could’ve even been one of the first legions written then behind the scenes creep comes along and BAM!
just started the video but really appreciate your legion talk videos. I have a Salamanders force themed and tailored exclusively to use in Zone Mortalis. I really enjoy them for ZM.
Cheers mate glad you enjoy them!
How you finding them in ZM (and ZM in general?) I need to play more ZM, I have like 4 tables for it…
Redemption of Flames only grants the bonus to the warlord and the unit joins, not the whole army.
With that said, Redemption of Flames is also the only Salamanders-specific warlord trait that doesn't restrict you from taking Destroyer squads or Moritats in a Salamanders army, save for taking the Covenant of Fire Rite of War (Awakening Fire merely prevents you from taking units and characters with jump packs). Be it a Moritat attached to a Dragon's Breath Hand Flamer destroyer squad or another independent character attached to any other squad equipped with flame or volkite weapons, the warlord is ripe for some interesting plays a prospective Traitor Salamanders player could make use of.
Ooops did I say the whole army in there?!
Definately a great shout for traitor moritat popping out of a squad for a ton of shots!
It’s a shame the warlord can’t join a squad the moritats in for some tasty flaming there!
@@BearfootMiniatures One option that works really well is a command retinue equipped with volkite chargers. Suddenly 16 shots wounding on 2+ vs marines with deflagrate makes for fun times.
Pyrocasters have 4 attacks on and 3 attacks off the charge because of the basic CCW and bolt pistol giving them paired weapons
You know I think pyroclasts particularly are the stars of the army really cos that’s pretty savage after their overwatch!
Does dangerous terrain trigger on consolidation moves during combat? May make spell mildly more useful
I think in all the Shattered Legions there's a 'lore legitimate' option for a no-longer-loyal, rather than traitor option
Same could apply for Night Lords or Iron Warriors who, say see what the Word Bearers/Emperor's Children are up to, and go "erm [censored] that! We didn't sign of up for this [bull guano]"
Ye I suppose, like how some of the Iron hands begin to despise ferrus along the lines of the flesh is weak
Disagree on the iron warriors though, they’re just legion traitors with no legit reason and all must be purged!
I may need to make a small traitor salamander army just to say that there's one in the world
Hahaha get it done! Min chance of bumping into a mirror!
They don't get any buffs to using melta weapons at all. It's purely a flavor thing. I really wish they did something for melta weapons.
I'm in the camp of "they're fine", but they are definitely in the bottom 2 or 3. What hurts me is that I built my army to be more mechanized and reliant on durability, and my main opponent just happens to have an army that perfectly counters mine (loyalist Iron Warriors with lots of Strength 8 (not counting legion rule) shooting, so I can't even take advantage of multi wound models or feel no pain, or Weight of Duty, and 4 dreads). I'm starting to get salty of how little salamanders have, and the little they have, other legions just do whatever they do better.
I agree with you there, hopefully they’ll get a proper bump when things get updated (like I know it shouldn’t need it but there’s always one that does)
This video is 35 minutes too long. Like the white scar one should just be they're rubbish play something else.
Hahaha why did I bother, I should’ve just done a reel or something 10s and done, so much wasted effort!
Guide =/= Review lol