I dive into a comparison of the Marshall EL84 20/20 & Mesa Boogie 20/20 Dyna-Watt rack power amps. Both are: 1U EL84 Powered Stereo 20W Per Channel Cool!
Great vid. I passed on one of those mesas last year and I'm still kicking myself. I love the wood on that warmoth. That's my favorite kind of finish on a guitar. :)
@@michaeltorenI hope its alright to ask this here. I have a chance to pick up an X99 locally. For the price they are going for, is it worth getting in your opinion?
@@antonjonsson2859 it's a rare piece so as a collector I would say yes.. but sound wise it is very close to the x88r if not identical. The problem with the x99 is if it breaks there is no one to fix it.
I prefer the warmth of the Marshall, heard it right away. That’s probably why I have that same model lol. Appreciate the breakdown these amps are amazing. You can’t compare them to a 50/50 though it’s a completely different class. With these amps you get anywhere from bedroom to small venue sound all without breaking up. I can’t push it past 3ish without the old lady saying something so it works 🤙
I had the Mesa 20/20 for years….I ended up selling it,as I had a Marshall 9005 that I bought in 89…still have it….The Marshall power amp is 50 watts per channel,but it just sounded better than the Mesa….that 9005 is still my favorite power amp to date….it was the precursor to the gold ones you have….
The Marshall has a fan as well, no? It's at 9:00 of the torroidal transformer pointing right at the tubes on an angle. I think it's actually better than the MESA design since it blows air right on the tubes and out the side of the amp.
Michael I’ve been building & repairing amps for over 25 years and I may self just got into rack stuff. I have the SP77 and I just scored a mint Rocktron Valvesonic Plexi model preamp. Both those right go through either a Peavey Classic 60/60 or Crown Macrotech 800 mono. Good vids brother.
@@michaeltoren : Thanks for the reply, Michael. Couple pieces I should’ve kept, 2 really old 1970’s Alembic F2-B preamps, Groove Tubes Trio and Carvin EL34 poweramp. I also had an old AB International Precedent if you remember those power amps? Actually very good feel & sound from those when running tube preamps. The Alembic F2-B’s need a really hot power amp cause they’re very mellow pre’s. Not hot all! The Trio was really fat sounding clean & dirty. Funny thing is predominately being a bassist, I use the SP-77 for my bass gear too.
people in the US always prefered marshall and people in europe most likely mesa. this has changed since mesa has just become overpriced in general and unavailable here in europe.i don`t like 1u 20w poweramps just because they most likely driven by 2x el84 tubes which are running really hot in these small cases and i prefere depth and presence controls. the synergy is also just a big pricey disappointment imo. in my experience, the best bang for your buck is the good old peavey classic 50/50, nothing can beat the price to performance ratio of this sweet cheap underrated all tube poweramp. i bought two of these for 200€ each and my synergy rig sounds just like heaven for me. now cheers 🎸🎸
I have the Mesa20/20 and it's funny, that I actually don't like the two Master-Volumes. This thing is so dynamic, that I find it hard to get a real balance when I turn it up.
Be careful with the bias on the Marshall. Especially the earlier models which didn’t have an internal fan. Back rear left there should be a opening for heat to get out. There is a large amount of wires that can get in way. Use a small cable tie and tie the cables up into top. Also the Marshall both outputs must be connected to a stereo cabinet, unless like this yiu have some load on the other output. Not sure about the mesa
It's the same speaker cab for most of my videos. It's a Divided by 12 with a mix of Vintage 30s and 55hz Greenbacks. The mics are typically on the GBs just off the dust cover.
I like the Mesa 20/20 more...the Marshall sounds.slightly more buzzy and maybe colors the tone a bit with compression....the Mesa sounds a little more crisp Nice comparison
Thanks! I had a few pieces left over from the 90s but I didn't get the extreme bug until I discovered Michael Nielsen's channel 5 years ago. Then the obsession went full swing.
Hi Michael I saw your great gear at Michael Nielsen his channel. One of them the Langner dcp1 is my favourite. Do you have the schematic of it or can take some photos. There are many enthousiasts who what to play one. And with this schematic someone can make them again as clone. I will be very thankful!
There is actually a schematic floating around on the internet that is fairly accurate (enough to get you in the ballpark). I sent you a more detailed response over on the Huge Guitar Racks forum on FB.
How can I route all of my rack preamps then select what rack fx then into the same power amp? Assuming I only use 1 or 2 preamps at a time but not have to unplug everything.
You could accomplish that with a Voodoo Labs GCX & midi control, such as their Ground Control. You would have 8 independent and stackable loops. Preamps could be loops 1 & 2 with the rack effects taking up loops 3-8. To run 2 preamps in parallel you would need some y-cables to split and then join the signals post preamp before going into your effects loops. Only issue is all of your effects would be in series and mono.
@@michaeltoren Well I have 6 preamps, 3-4 fx units, bbe and gate, then 2 power amps. How do I accomplish this? Studio use, not live. If you want to discuss offline and help Id be open to that as well.
I run my preamps via GCX (5) with each having its own loop. I then route the signal to a patch bay where I have all my effects units. With a patch cable (or cables) I run the signal through the effect I want (in series). To run multiple effects simultaneously (in parallel) I have a line mixer that I can patch the effects to and blend their output levels to taste. My patch bay out goes to my power amps (since I have multiple I use a buffer to split the signal without loss). I plan to do a video on this at some point but distractions seem to get the best of me. Shoot me an email michaeltoren@hotmail.com and I will send you a routing diagram for my rack that might help.
Actually on tube amps it is safer to connect a cabinet/speaker with less ohms than the other way around. If you don't have enough load then it gets dangerous for the tube amp. But going half the load should be fine on most power amps. Pete Townshend used to plug 8 Ohm cabinets into the 8 Ohm speaker out of his Sound City amp. This gave him more mids and less bass.
No. You can mismatch by a specific range with the cabinet with more impedance than your amps speaker out, but you should never plug a speaker load with less impedance into a an amps speaker out that is labeled for more impedance than what you are driving. If you exceed the range with speakers that are wired in series the amp works too hard if you failed to exceed the minimum impedance you need the amp will work harder due to the lack of resistance which is also bad, no speaker or dummy load no resistance. Your amps out need a specific range, a minimum and a maximum, the maximum being double the speaker out.
Another person to follow for rack gear. You, Nielsen, Mentoneman, and Todd are my rack gods
Great vid. I passed on one of those mesas last year and I'm still kicking myself. I love the wood on that warmoth. That's my favorite kind of finish on a guitar. :)
The remote switching on the back of the Marshall is for a deep switch. Love your vids, keep them coming ;)
Oh man I missed that. Its says deep right below the jack. Thanks!
@@michaeltorenI hope its alright to ask this here. I have a chance to pick up an X99 locally. For the price they are going for, is it worth getting in your opinion?
@@antonjonsson2859 it's a rare piece so as a collector I would say yes.. but sound wise it is very close to the x88r if not identical. The problem with the x99 is if it breaks there is no one to fix it.
Im blown away by the amount of rack equipment you have..
I see a fan on the Marshall!!!
I prefer the warmth of the Marshall, heard it right away. That’s probably why I have that same model lol. Appreciate the breakdown these amps are amazing. You can’t compare them to a 50/50 though it’s a completely different class. With these amps you get anywhere from bedroom to small venue sound all without breaking up. I can’t push it past 3ish without the old lady saying something so it works 🤙
I had the Mesa 20/20 for years….I ended up selling it,as I had a Marshall 9005 that I bought in 89…still have it….The Marshall power amp is 50 watts per channel,but it just sounded better than the Mesa….that 9005 is still my favorite power amp to date….it was the precursor to the gold ones you have….
The Marshall has a fan as well, no? It's at 9:00 of the torroidal transformer pointing right at the tubes on an angle. I think it's actually better than the MESA design since it blows air right on the tubes and out the side of the amp.
Michael I’ve been building & repairing amps for over 25 years and I may self just got into rack stuff. I have the SP77 and I just scored a mint Rocktron Valvesonic Plexi model preamp. Both those right go through either a Peavey Classic 60/60 or Crown Macrotech 800 mono. Good vids brother.
The SP77 is a great unit. The Valvesonic is a sleeper and can hit many of the classic Marshall sounds. Congrats!
@@michaeltoren : Thanks for the reply, Michael. Couple pieces I should’ve kept, 2 really old 1970’s Alembic F2-B preamps, Groove Tubes Trio and Carvin EL34 poweramp. I also had an old AB International Precedent if you remember those power amps? Actually very good feel & sound from those when running tube preamps. The Alembic F2-B’s need a really hot power amp cause they’re very mellow pre’s. Not hot all! The Trio was really fat sounding clean & dirty. Funny thing is predominately being a bassist, I use the SP-77 for my bass gear too.
people in the US always prefered marshall and people in europe most likely mesa. this has changed since mesa has just become overpriced in general and unavailable here in europe.i don`t like 1u 20w poweramps just because they most likely driven by 2x el84 tubes which are running really hot in these small cases and i prefere depth and presence controls. the synergy is also just a big pricey disappointment imo. in my experience, the best bang for your buck is the good old peavey classic 50/50, nothing can beat the price to performance ratio of this sweet cheap underrated all tube poweramp. i bought two of these for 200€ each and my synergy rig sounds just like heaven for me. now cheers 🎸🎸
I have the Mesa20/20 and it's funny, that I actually don't like the two Master-Volumes. This thing is so dynamic, that I find it hard to get a real balance when I turn it up.
I guess the deep-switch on the Marshall is foot switchable, so you can assign it to the dirty sound and the non-deep for the cleans?
Marshall Has a fan as well... right next to Transformer at an angle to the power tube.
Be careful with the bias on the Marshall. Especially the earlier models which didn’t have an internal fan. Back rear left there should be a opening for heat to get out. There is a large amount of wires that can get in way. Use a small cable tie and tie the cables up into top. Also the Marshall both outputs must be connected to a stereo cabinet, unless like this yiu have some load on the other output. Not sure about the mesa
Hi great channel, what speaker load did you end up using? Sounded like you used 16 ohm speaker for both power amps?
It's the same speaker cab for most of my videos. It's a Divided by 12 with a mix of Vintage 30s and 55hz Greenbacks. The mics are typically on the GBs just off the dust cover.
I like the Mesa 20/20 more...the Marshall sounds.slightly more buzzy and maybe colors the tone a bit with compression....the Mesa sounds a little more crisp
Nice comparison
Cool you wired the resistors. Good shit man. When did you start collecting all these racks? When did the sickness begin? :p lol. Keep 'em coming man!
Thanks! I had a few pieces left over from the 90s but I didn't get the extreme bug until I discovered Michael Nielsen's channel 5 years ago. Then the obsession went full swing.
Hi Michael I saw your great gear at Michael Nielsen his channel. One of them the Langner dcp1 is my favourite. Do you have the schematic of it or can take some photos. There are many enthousiasts who what to play one. And with this schematic someone can make them again as clone. I will be very thankful!
There is actually a schematic floating around on the internet that is fairly accurate (enough to get you in the ballpark). I sent you a more detailed response over on the Huge Guitar Racks forum on FB.
Now the Mosvalve please 🤘🏻
6:18 the Marshall appears to have a fan ? left of the PT ? 5:11
How do you feel about the Peavey Classic Series 50/50 EL84 based.
I have actually never tried that amp but have been verge of buying it several times. Very curious.
How can I route all of my rack preamps then select what rack fx then into the same power amp? Assuming I only use 1 or 2 preamps at a time but not have to unplug everything.
You could accomplish that with a Voodoo Labs GCX & midi control, such as their Ground Control. You would have 8 independent and stackable loops. Preamps could be loops 1 & 2 with the rack effects taking up loops 3-8. To run 2 preamps in parallel you would need some y-cables to split and then join the signals post preamp before going into your effects loops. Only issue is all of your effects would be in series and mono.
@@michaeltoren Well I have 6 preamps, 3-4 fx units, bbe and gate, then 2 power amps. How do I accomplish this? Studio use, not live. If you want to discuss offline and help Id be open to that as well.
I run my preamps via GCX (5) with each having its own loop. I then route the signal to a patch bay where I have all my effects units. With a patch cable (or cables) I run the signal through the effect I want (in series). To run multiple effects simultaneously (in parallel) I have a line mixer that I can patch the effects to and blend their output levels to taste. My patch bay out goes to my power amps (since I have multiple I use a buffer to split the signal without loss). I plan to do a video on this at some point but distractions seem to get the best of me. Shoot me an email michaeltoren@hotmail.com and I will send you a routing diagram for my rack that might help.
@@michaeltoren Email sent. Thanks
Actually on tube amps it is safer to connect a cabinet/speaker with less ohms than the other way around. If you don't have enough load then it gets dangerous for the tube amp. But going half the load should be fine on most power amps. Pete Townshend used to plug 8 Ohm cabinets into the 8 Ohm speaker out of his Sound City amp. This gave him more mids and less bass.
No. You can mismatch by a specific range with the cabinet with more impedance than your amps speaker out, but you should never plug a speaker load with less impedance into a an amps speaker out that is labeled for more impedance than what you are driving. If you exceed the range with speakers that are wired in series the amp works too hard if you failed to exceed the minimum impedance you need the amp will work harder due to the lack of resistance which is also bad, no speaker or dummy load no resistance. Your amps out need a specific range, a minimum and a maximum, the maximum being double the speaker out.
Thanks.
Dave Friedman speaks highly of that Marshall... it's a shame Marshall doesn't that one either as stereo or even mono anymore.
So the best option to connect various racks at the same time it would be Mesa I think,it can be feed several at the same time
Which has the loudest fan noise? The Fryette LX II vs Mesa 20/20?
I'm going to say the LXII, but I need to double-check.
@@michaeltoren awesome! Thanks for the info! Double that if ever you did find the time to check. 😎👍
Maybe stupid question, why do these power amps have those smaller tubes, that usually are preamp tubes.?
Usually, the small tubes are phase inverters. Essentially, they prepare the audio signal to be amplified by the power tubes.
This will help explain it in detail
www.mojotone.com/blog/what-does-this-thing-do-phase-inverter
Do the peavey 50/50
Well it could have been good but that delay killed it for me
👍🏽👍🏽
Marshall sounds way better than the mesa as usual.
Engl E810 - same basic idea - Stereo 20/20 watts out of 4 EL84's
I have been wanting to get an Engl power amp. Maybe it will be an E810.
@@michaeltoren it looks very interesting - sadly they stopped producing it a short while ago
EL84 = wimp tone