Does Geometry Really Make a Difference? TESTING a NEW Jeep Suspension System - SEMA 2023 BONUS
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- One of the reasons why a lot of lifted Jeeps ride and handle so poorly is because the suspension and steering components on them, no longer sit the way they were designed to be. At SEMA 2023, ORZ USA came to show off their all new 4.5" Georise Suspension System which among other things, provides complete geometry correction for not only the front of a JL Wrangler or JT Gladiator but for the rear as well. Does it really make a difference? Well, I got invited to test it out for myself and in this video, you'll get to see and hear some of my impressions of it.
More pics and all kinds of SEMA Show stuff that doesn't make the video cut can be found here: www.wayalife.com/forums/2023-...
#sema2023 #jeep #wayalife #semashow2023 #sema #semashow #jeepwrangler #jeepgladiator #jlwrangler #wranglerjl #jljeep #jeepjl #gladiatortruck #jtgladiator #gladiatorjt #lasvegas #lvcc #lasvegasconventioncenter #overland #overlanding #orzusa #georise #45georise #suspensionsystem #liftkit #factoryride #geometrycorrection
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I could tell you were not 100% sold, but you were logical... you spent time and even as a prototype it seems the final purchasable product will be thought out and engineered (because yeah, anyone can do a spring shock lift with no geometry correction...this company appears to want to be better than that) and it can be just those little tweaks to angles and travel that can make it ride so nice. Thank you for taking the time to introduce a new manufacturer that otherwise might have a hard time finding space in a crowded field.
I'm glad to hear you enjoyed our quick test drive of this new suspension system and happy that I was able to introduce ORZ to people like you.
They are definitely on to something and hopefully the Jeep community will be hearing a lot more from them soon. That 2dr looked great on the road and trail not to mention stable. Thank you for sharing this information.
Glad that we were able to share this test drive with you 😎
Dude it looks super stable at 4.5” with 37s. Hmm. I’m very intrigued. I appreciate that someone is jumping into this market and doing something a little different. I just don’t want that rear raised track bar bracket to break off. Great video Eddie.
Glad we could share this new suspension system with you.
I have geometry brackets (Ranchos, really thick, fully welded) on the front of my JK and yes, I lose a bit of clearance. But man to they make it drive better than stock, even with a lift. And a lot less nose dive under heavy breaking. Their rear setup is certainly a new take. Others like Metalcloak have rear geometry brackets, but they lower the frame side. Raising the axle side avoids the ground clearance issue, which is cool.
The rear correction is really what caught my eye and like you, I've never really been a fan of what others have done with the drop brackets in the rear. That said, even with 4.5" of lift on a 2-door, I have to say the ride did feel pretty stable and handling was at least as good as stock.
Great to see ORZ going to the US for feedback. They've been selling stuff here in eaurope for a while now and as a official and large distributor of AEV parts it is only logical they went this way. Good piece of kit with sound german engineering behind it.
Awesome! Glad to hear you're familiar with them and yes, their kit did look like a lot of thought put into it.
They are one of the biggest here in Germany, if not the biggest. My JL has most of their stuff on it. Great to see you testing them out. I definitely consider buying the lift kit for my 2-door! 🤟🏼
@@macbelling very cool :)
Wow. You really hooked up with those guys quick after SEMA 😀 Thats cool that yall were local. Anyhoo, what a great set-up on that 2 door🤙
LOL - Not gonna lie, after a week of sleepless nights at SEMA, it was a tough thing to pull off but really, it was now or never.
@@wayalife Love the channel sir ... safe wheeling
We're happy to hear it and thank you. Happy wheeling to you as well 😎
Great video, good to see our neighbors from Germany (I am from The Netherlands) try to get some sales in the USA
Glad you enjoyed the video :)
Their stuff usually works pretty well, the big thing in Germany is that they get the necessary paperwork done so we can legally drive it
TÜV papers are ready😉
I love all your videos out at Prison Hills! Grew up there many many years ago thrashing my Cherokee on 32’s out there! Awesome that there is another Offroad company calling Carson City home! Maybe one day I’ll get stationed out in Fallon and we can go off-roading together!!
Very cool and that would be awesome 👍
I agree @chris9585, if you can make it out this way maybe we can all get together and head out and play in the Nevada dirt.
Good information thank you
Glad to hear you found our video to be informative.
great video , thanks
Glad you enjoyed it 😎
The front drop brackets made my JL drive nice again over bumps. It used to go off in any direction without them if the bump was bad enough even with only 5000kms on the clock. I couldn’t have a off roader without a lift.
Good to hear!
I love my 2 door JL more than any other vehicle I have ever driven, these guys did a great job on this Jeep and their design of this unique lift kit is certainly intriguing
Love your videos from Philippines🇵🇭
Thank you! We're happy to hear it 😎
lol gotta love that rumble. .....so different when you jumped into their jeep....I know I know...its a suspension video...but man....that rumble...lol
LOL - Not gonna lie, it's always hard to get back into a Jeep with anything less 😁
lol gotta love that rumble. .....
2021 Yukon Denali XL Borla muffler ....on my page
Fun to have traveled 60K in the family Jeep, stock has worked out and explored 🤩
Nice! Jeeps are made great and do well right out of the box.
With 2 doors every misalignment is amplified vs a longer wheelbase jeep. if they can lift it this high without rough ride and steer wondering on the street it will be a great product. Even the mopar lift have many issues on the 2 door.
Well said and I totally agree.
Really enjoyed your SEMA coverage this year. You showed some really nice and serious builds for off roading. Heard about a rear view mirror replacement with a screen and uses a rear view camera. This would be nice for the overlanders that have almost too many accessories on the rear spare tire thus blocking the view for the stock rear view mirror. The company is Gentex, would like any feed back on this whether it is from Wayalife or your viewers. BTW liked the review you did on the suspension system bye ORZ. Thanks for sharing.
Really happy to hear you enjoyed our 2023 SEMA coverage. As far as mirrors go, it's funny you should ask about it because I do hope to make a video about one soon, only, it's made by a different company.
As far as I know, Gentex is a vendor, they do not sell to end-customers. Might be different in US, but they didn‘t even reply to inquiries (did so). I think they aim for OEMs to implement it.
@@pan6593 I agree with your assessment as I was unable to find product information on their web site. Looking forward to what Wayalife has in the future on rear view camera mirrors manufactures/products. In the mean time I'll be doing more internet searches.
Good review (as always).
While I’m not personally a fan of drop brackets (because I’m old and simple), I do recognize the effectiveness they can have on a daily driver.
Appreciate this company’s efforts to make something somewhat unique and there has to be some “enthusiast” heart at play for the Germans to get involved with a wrangler and that’s pretty cool.
I guess my thing is - these JLs don’t need to go near the height that this kit provides to clear bigger tires - and I’m not sure I would do drop brackets with 40’s.
But if the ride quality on that roller skate JL was close to stock like you stated and showed, then kudos to the engineering of that company
Clearly, this kit isn't for everyone. Me personally, long arms are what I run on my Jeeps but then, they cost significantly more than this kit.
They’ll love your feedback…
Yeah but nothing broke..
Or was even a worry…
So those bolt on’s are solid..
Nice.. my Rough Country 3.5 Springs lift with Bilstein 5100’s
Ride’s proper just keeps it within
The geometry on the JT…
But this looks cool 😎 for
A two door
LOL - I hope to be of any help that I can be.
As someone who drove a 2 door JK that ride is better than factory XD
Yup, we've owned a 2-door JK and can vouch that this has a better ride. Still have a 2-door JL and would say that in spite of the 4.5" lift, it still rides about the same.
@@wayalife That's impressive. I have a Tacoma now with a 4in lift and it rides how I wish my old JK did.
Geo brackets made a HUGE difference on my Mojave with 2" AEV. I did Rancho front and and Teraflex rear brackets. The Mojave had a rear bounce before the brackets. Now it rides like I have 400 pounds sitting in the bed. I was most surprised by what they did for the ride quality.
As far as clearance loss goes, yes, but also no. The brackets are lower than no brackets, but they're still higher than neighboring components, so it's a just a matter of knowing where to place the wheels.
Drop brackets are definitely a good option to consider if long arms are out of your budget.
The rear setup was very good but I would not lift a short wheelbase that much. On the steep climbs it will let the front unload.
It's definitely different to wheel something at this height but I've done it and didn't think it felt too bad in this Jeep, even on some of the descents we took it on. But, to your point, a 4-door does make it feel a lot more stable.
IDE really like have this on my Jeep I think 🤔 I have a budget lift and time for upgrade!😊
Glad we could share this with you :)
Is ORZ going to offer monotube or remote reservoir shocks
Not that I know of or at least, not at this time. And really, I don't see a need for them for most people and the twin tubes that they offer now do offer a smoother ride than monotubes. The only real down side to twin tubes is that if you spend a lot of time driving hard and fast across the desert, they will fade.
Always enjoy your videos! My parents would always go to Carson City. Would do off roading in the Topaz Lake area.
Was that just a BLM road that you were on?
Really happy to hear you enjoy our videos. Where we were used to be BLM up until a few years ago but it's not owned by Carson City and designated for off road use.
My parents live in Carson so I am out there quite a bit (from Washington state) - where were you wheeling in this video?? That flex crawling looks super fun!
BTW - really appreciate your tutorials and the way you do them.
Happy to hear you enjoy our videos and find them to be informative. We were wheeling in the city owned OHV area down by the river.
I liked the ending when you took the photos with your daughter.
LOL - Cindy is blushing and we're glad that you enjoyed it 😊
@@wayalife You are such a cool dad letting her drink alcohol.
I like the kit , my opinion tho is maybe they could use a shock with a tad bit more dampening. Although the kit is designed to give factory ride at that height , and it does , however i feel people will want a little more improvement over stock ride quality , because of the money they will be spending for the kit. And a good quality dampening rebound shock would do alot to compliment the kit they have created . Thats my two cents anyway 👍
Well said and as is the case with most any kit out there, shocks can always be replaced with an upgrade.
They have a YJ too....
❤❤❤🎉😊
Glad you liked what you see 😎
Eddie: You make life very interesting for one who is debating the Accuaire investment and is now confronted with the ORZ option. The Accuaire is even more expensive, but it does have some very novel features, I am not sure that it justifies the 40% premium over ORZ. The thoughtful engineering of the ORZ option is enthralling. I am just confounded about making a choice between a static or a dynamic lift. Any thoughts?
I would say it really depends on what you need your Jeep to do for you. If you tow or carry a heavy load on a regular basis or have a low header on your garage or need to make it easier for family to get in and out of your Jeep, the ACCUAIR system is a no brainer. But, if your Jeep is your daily driver and none of the above really applies to you, this ORZ is worth considering for sure.
How much does the rear geo correction brackets affect the ride.? Would imagine it’s more noticeable on the 2 door shorter wheelbase.
What I can tell you is that typically, a 2-door with as much lift as this Jeep had, 4.5", the ride can be less than stellar. However, with the geometry correction front and rear, the ride and handling felt surprisingly good. At least as good as factory on small tires or better.
That's a very interesting kit. For a 4.5 in. lift, it looked really well thought out. Did they, by any chance, reveal a probable price point? This looks like something I'd like to look into for my 4dr Jl.
At SEMA, they mentioned it would retail for about $3900 for everything.
Exactly 3999 USD 😉
My concern would be if those extension brackets would wear out quick, meaning would they easily crack or break? Looks like a good product but I imagine like everything else it just needs to be tested.
AEV came out with front brackets just like these well over a decade and while they proved to be weak enough to break, there have been a lot of other companies that have made something similar and a lot stronger. During that time, I have not seeing any fail in that way. The rear solution is new and so yes, time will tell with them but based on how most people use their Jeep, I doubt it'll be a problem.
Nice detail video. Too bad you couldn't get a wheels-off side view look of the setup. You didn't discuss the brake lines if they were stock or longer, the requirement to change the driveshaft joint design for droop clearance (getting rid of the rzeppa cv joint), the actual shock travel length, if there is an offset of the front shock body to clear interferences, front and rear sway bar effects (WAG the links are just longer), etc.
What got me the most is the knuckle swap for better steering geometry to include the knuckles with an engineered-design track bar axle mount. Wonder if these 2 components, though engineered for their lift design, would be able to be workable on other mfrs lifts of the various heights. With that, would be good to know at what compression point the steering interferes with the frame, the track bar interferes with the diff cover as the front axle longitudinal position relative to the CAs and track bar to articulate and clear.
Raising the back axle mount points is not relatively new. Several 'Jeep shops', ie JeepWest, has been doing this for years on the link Wranglers (TJ/LJ, JK and JL platforms). Surprised for the large bracket on the axle to retain the lower CA and shock, that the lift modification didn't include to raise the rear axle shock mount up the 2" that many suggest with their lifts and remove the imbalance of the dangling bracket. There should still be plenty of travel for handling for a less length compression shock.
Sorry, this was the best we could do in the extremely limited time we had with this Jeep. Maybe an hour at most. That said, there is no need to replace the factory brake lines. We've been running them on our JL with coilovers that offer 15" of vertical travel and with no issues. You do need to install frame relocation brackets and disconnect them from the control arm but that's about it. The drive shafts on this Jeep were factory but from experience, I can tell you that both the front and rear will need to be replaced sooner than later as the CV boots on the rzeppa joints will fail at the steeper angle they are sitting at. A 4-door could get by with the factory rear longer though. Shock travel is something I'm sure you could get from ORZ. Otherwise, I saw no issues with clearance of any kind while flexing this Jeep on the rocks and yes, I checked.
@Mickale-Moranis: Thank you very much for your interest in our kit. I will gladly provide you with the shock travel, which is 295mm in the front and 329mm in the rear.
I wish I had seen this, we did the mopar kit drive pretty crappy, then put a drop bracket on the front still not happy with the way it drives. thinking of putting it back to stock.
What don't you like about how your Jeep drives?
@@wayalife It wanders, always making steering corrections. faster you go the worse it gets. They say it's in spec, whatever that is. It's a 21 jlur only has 12000 miles never been off road...yet
Two things. First, it sounds like you are still running way too much air in your tires and because of it, only the crowns of them are making contact with the ground. Lower the psi to something more reasonable like 30 psi and I think you will find that helps. Second, if you are lifted, I a bit more positive caster will help out a lot however, you will need something like adjustable lower control arms to do that.
What size tires were they running?
37"
I was thinking about putting a JKS 3" lift and 37s on my 2 door Rubicon or should i go with 35s ???
You should be able to clear 37's without any issues. And, if you don't get them, you'll wish you had LOL
@@wayalifethank you! I like this ORZ kit but can't locate a catalog online that's in English
@@chrisbayridge23 This is the website you should be looking at www.bawarrion.com
@@wayalifethank you!
This one is more specific bawarrion.com/suspension/georise45/georise-4s/
It’s really cool how they thought of the geometry. I still think if portals were more common and therefore affordable; that they are the best option for stock handling. They’re too rich for my blood still, but give you clearance where it matters.
I don't know if I'd agree about portals. I know they're super trendy right now but from experience testing them out, I would never want them if only because of how you can't drive fast with them and how anything other than stock suspension would have you sitting nose bleed high. But then, that's just me.
@@wayalifethat’s true, I didn’t think of the driving fast portion. But I’m in Denver, so our off-roading is slow.
@jordantrujillo293 it's not just off roading, the gear reduction in them keeps you from driving fast anywhere. I got a chance to drive the Mighty FC back when it had portals and I was far from impressed overall.
@@wayalifeCuriousty question, have you ever driven a Unimog? Portals and fun from what I can tell. I've never had the opportunity to be in one myself. Thanks.
@@wayalife hmm, I wonder how much different the ratio was in the FC (I never heard of it, so I had to do some research). But 74weld has had them up to 100mph with their portals at a 1.22 reduction ratio.
Any idea when this will be out in the American market?
The 4-door and Gladiator kit is available now. The 2-door kit should be available any day now.
What are they sold under I am not finding anything under ORZ geo rise?
This is their official website orz-shop.de/en/ but I'll see if I can find something better here in the US
@ccovemaker Okay, I just spoke with ORZ and here is a better link bawarrion.com/suspension/georise45/georise-4s/
Ps. This Jeep height remind me of my YJ in the 90s where we did the leaf spring OVER axle conversion which gave like 7 inches of lift and was definitely NOT stable. 1990s = no such thing as “geometry”.
LOL - times have changed for sure.
how tall was the lift ?
4.5" of lift.
@wayalife 4 1/2in lift on a 2 door with the stock front driveshaft....
Yeah, it's just a matter of time before the rzeppa boot at the transfer case fails but it's not the end of the world. To be honest, the rear will go out as well being that this is a 2-door and it being so short. Upgrading shafts is something everyone should expect to do with a lift of this size.
how much??
About $4k for everything.
What engine is in there Jeep?
It's a 2019 with a 2.0L turbo meaning, it also has etorque.
Drop brackets = rock grabbers…
Yup, they sure are and clearly, this kit isn't for the kind of guy who spends a lot of time out on big rocks. But, from what I've seen, that's a very small minority of Jeep owners and as I state in the video, for the daily driver/weekend warrior who just wants to get out on some dirt, they do a good job of correcting geometry and providing a nice ride and improved handling.
$4k for this lift is WAY too expensive. AEV is the only way to go for half the price. Yes I know AEV doesnt correct all of the rear geometry like this kit but I have never noticed that on the last three jeeps. Currently running the 2.5" Dual Sport RT with Bilstein shocks on a 2022 JLU Rubicon, sitting 5" higher than stock on 37's and it drives fantastic off road and on the road/highway.
You get more than just rear relocation brackets with this kit, you also get the high steer iron knuckles (something you don't get with AEV) as well as tuned springs of which I personally felt were softer than AEV and I like better. Of course, ride quality is 100% subjective and I'm not trying to say anything bad about AEV. Clearly, this kit isn't for everyone especially at this price point but for all that you get, I don't think it's way too expensive. At least, when compared to the suspension systems that I run on my Jeep 🤪
@@wayalife $2200 dollars over AEV cost just for their iron knuckles seems like a lot. I acknowledge that the AEV lift provides a firm ride but it does soften up a bit over time. It is also important to note that the AEV Dual Sport RT also has tuned springs and bilstein shocks as well. AEV specifically states..."The AEV JL 2.5” DualSport RT Suspension Kit includes a set of our frequency-tuned, triple-rate coil springs to provide 2.5” of additional front and rear ride height". I cant do the math in a way that makes this lift my next one. I know, I know, I know....I sound like an AEV fan boy but after lots of terrible lifts where no consideration was given to geometry, AEV has it figured out and at a VERY reasonable cost. Im guessing Jeep agrees as well thats why AEV is now an upfit option now on the 2024's (limited availability)
I would love to see you you do a side by side comparison. BTW... big fan of the channel.
@@drucifer3332 LOL - Since you seemed to have missed it, I have tested both out and I stated that the ride, for me, was softer and smoother than AEV and I liked it better. But again, ride quality is 100% subjective and that's just how I felt and clearly, others like yourself might think differently and there's nothing wrong with that. Clearly, you're happy with what you chose to buy and really, that's all that matters. If you've been following my channel for any length of time, you know that I have tested out a myriad of lifts and shocks and if you can afford it, I can tell you that you can have a far better ride than either of these kits and with greater benefits or at least, in my opinion.
@@wayalife LOL? I didnt miss it. You said in the video that "they are still working on it". The request was for a side by side comparison where both lifts (finished) can be compared against each using similar jeeps in the same conditions. Any comparison of the two lifts otherwise would be an inaccurate representation. Im assuming that a vast majority of your audience has a budget as I do, so $4000 vs $1800 is a lot to ask for "subjective". The winner must be clear. ORZ USA better be ready to do this otherwise it will be a tuff sell.
@@drucifer3332 LOL - But you already love what you chose to buy and think that ORZ is too expensive by $2k and my opinion would just be my opinion and I can tell you that the lifts I run on my Jeeps are way better than both. I'm not here to sell anything - just to share my experience testing out this suspension system. Take it or leave it ✌
First 🇺🇸
Seems like they need to just invest their time and ingenuity into Audi or VW. They’re not bringing anything new to the table.
Drive it and you'll think different
@briandobsch7573 cool dude 👍
Love your videos 📷 From Azores..😅🫶
Awesome! Really happy to hear it 😎