I've been doing this for a few months with running. Seen huge progress with 3 key hard sessions per week (track set, interval set, threshold set), and 10 sessions in low HR and super easy each week. My max HR is 205 and I usually sit at 135-145BPM for these easy runs. I have found that my endurance has increased dramatically and my HR keeps getting lower as the weeks go on. 3 months ago I would run at 160BPM at 6mins/km. Now I'm running at 140BPM at 4:45min/km. While also being able to run much much faster for all distances from 200m through to half marathon. I didn't specifically intend to use the 80/20 program. I just copied a few professional distance runners programs and this is essentially what most professionals do. I 100% recommend doing this.
@@stijndesmet4811 seems I miscalculated slightly . Just checked program and there are 13 sessions total. 3 hard and 10 easy. Every afternoon consists of an easy 30 - 40 minute run. So 7 sessions each week don't really fatigue the body. It seems like a lot but my body is constantly feeling fresh due to the 2 days between hard sessions.
Good to hear it works for you. It's something I've only recently picked up and I've seen a decent increase myself. If only I was a teenager like you, I imagine my gains would be even higher. Oh to be young(er) again...
@@TheKorusuk I used to race a lot throughout high school and trained 10 or more times per week with almost all being hard swim, cycle or run sessions. I've since fallen out of fitness in the 10 years since and thought I'd give running a good crack as it takes less hours to train properly compared to cycling or triathlon and so fits in with work. I am much faster now than I was when I was at 18. The main message I got from this 80/20 is that you have to go slow to race fast. Huge endurance and top level speed seem to be the most important thing. I was reading a report online questioning the Kenyon run coach in the early 2000s and he said the only thing that matters with endurance athletes is how many easy runs they do, and how fast they can run 1km. This falls inline with 80/20 as you either go easy, or fast. I between speed doesn't matter as much.
@@TomGrievee Hi Tom! what you've achieved sounds really interesting! congratulations! Now, I have a question, what is your resting heart rate? I've noticed that as I progressed, mine dwindled by 2 bpm(at the moment it's somewhere around 42-44 and during the night it has even been 39!) and I know I should not necessarily worry but I'm curious of yours. Thank you!
Psychologically it's so hard to back off on the intensity when training even though I know it will help me make gains. I need to focus on this more often. Great informative video. Thanks!
It just feels too easy to make some gains. But I also like that I don't feel like trash the next few days after the training. The boringness is easy to overcome listening to podcast, audiobooks, music or just by enjoying the silence.
Haha, yeah xD My typical training week has a Zwift race during the week, (sometimes two) padded out with some Z2, then my "endurance" ride at the weekend is more of a 4-5 hour hill smashing fest :P
I have been in the army for 13 years and hated running every second of that time ... until I overheard a couple buddies talking about 80/20 running. I just finished an 80/20 5K plan today and fell in love with running so much I decided to train for my first IRONMAN! Really great method!
Yep. I reduced my group rides or I found a group ride that was in my 80 and switched to it. Once I did that, I started dominating those other group rides. It was funny because those 20% group rides started getting stupid. The regroup point stopped being a regroup point type of stuff. Those meatheads truly ruined that ride.
I can only recommend training with someone slower. E.g. doing a training with my wife is oftentimes a base training for me, but not for her. Also, using worse or better gear might help to change the difficulty.
I have just started with this strategy, and since I am 46 yet, it fits me well so far, as the recovery takes longer than it did 20 years ago.. I guess 2 times/week going hard is enough, if you really do the hard stuff so HARD, that you lose your language, and the low stuff so LOW that in ocasion you get lapped by a granny on a shopping bike. And it feels really nice goin low, instead of that constant intensity mix on every lap, without a real benefit for the efforts, as the studies obvioulsy proved
Yea I did a 16k easy and I feel fine whereas a few more heart beats and I'd feel tired and less able to go again tomorrow. Now I can go easy again tomorrow and think about a quality set Tuesday. No more feeling tired all the time, not hitting the quality sessions well enough and just doing low reward high effort Tempo work.
the best explanation i have found so far. so it is time and not distance based division. and that recovery times are a part of it. most of the other videos say "volume".🙄 i understand that it doesnt have to be precise but still need to know the overal guidelines. you were very helpful. thank you so much. i have just finished grueling 3 months of 100% in zone 1 and 2 running to get my ego in check and make sure that 80% is done properly, build base, learn running economy in those zones to prepare me for the next 3 or more month of 80/20. cant wait to introduce some speedwork, haha.
I recently got a power meter for the bike to slow me down, I realised I have been working too hard for much of my training. It seems counterintuitive but I'm already seeing gains !!! 👌
Been using this type of training principle for a while and it works for me. The type of training we should do will be depend on the type of our fitness level. Thanks for sharing this video as always very useful content. Thumbs up .
Have to say it works, i followed a 80/20 program for my first middle distance and being a old git, it was easier on my body. Shame it was cancelled but stuck with the program anyway. I know whats coming for next year now and hopefully not lose 3 months of swimming :)
Really informative video thanks!! I heard about this method a few weeks back and I’ve been building a training plan around it. Are there any tips for how to build the time spent training, other than strictly sticking to low intensity efforts? I’m a strong cyclist and have struggled working my runs in without affecting my perceived effort on the bike. Thanks in advance.
one of the main benefits is injury reduction, fat burning, technique refinement in that zone 2. the spice can be added later with interval efforts or the 20%. the body can go very far in that zone 2 effort
Started training last year and basically did 0/100 training. Always low volume and high intensity so I could get it over with. Went from 112 kg to 98 kg and went from 27 minutes to 23.30 minutes on the 5K. I now have more joy in running and doing 80/20 which should be much more effective. Hoping to get under the 20 minutes this year.
Guys - this "new" approach was already in the high performance sports earlier. It was Heinrich Bergsmüller chief of the Austrian Olympic Wintersports location in Obertrauern/Salzburg. He was the coach who made Hermann Maier the best and elite athlete in ski racing. There is a lot of documentation about his training method which works really good....
My understanding of polarized training is that the closer you get to race day, the more race-like your workout becomes. How does 80/20 fit into the traditional base, build, peak, and race structure? is 80/20 only for base or build?
It is understandable you got confused about this because the video got it wrong and you have it right. Polarized training is for regular base training. It is not a peaking program. Yes, as you get closer to a big event, you do more race pace training and less polarized training.
This was interesting as a taster but would be good to have some more details please in a more specific GTN-training explained video, Mark. A few questions: if you are a 'typical' age grouper with a job etc who is able to do say 6-7 sessions a week. Do the swims count as high intensity or can they be in the 80% even if at effort? What if you are doing a couple of bikes and 3-4 runs for the rest - I can't really see how to divide 2 bikes into 80:20 - potentially a hard 1 hr session and a 4 hour long slow ride at the weekend? And then I would normally do a tempo run, a track session, 1 LSR and potentially a short recovery run - but can't see that a tempo and a track will fit into an 80:20 week?
Can you please make a video on how to distribute the intensity across the swim, bike and the run like where to place a hard run relative to a hard bike session for those who can't afford a coach. Should I do the hard run with the hard bike or separate those two sessions or a combination of both?
How do pro’s use the 80/20 rule? When riding 15 hours, running like 8 hours and swimming for 7 hours a week the 20% must be around 3 hours, 96 min and 84 min a week. How do they schedule this into their program? Especially for the bike and run where quite a lot of the same muscles are used. Do they perform like 3 higher intensity days for the bike and 3 higher intensity days for the run in one week(6 in total)? Or do they combine these days?
Mark isn’t this just kind of implementing the Maffetone Method in to all your training but with the odd training session at a higher level. I try to keep all my training in a Z2 especially on my long runs and bike sessions, it does spike to Z3, but I do try to keep it in Z2 for the majority.
Another good question...I’m wondering what’s the difference between 80/20 or polarized training and Maffetone training, if any difference at all. Maybe MAF is more HR-specific, but also recommends around 80% low HR training?
Thanks for another great video! In the end you mention that early on in your season you should back down the 20% I just wanted to get clarity on that. Do you mean you should train at a low intensity for MORE than 80% of you time. If so does the inverse apply as you get close to your A race. (Meaning train at lower intensity only 75% as you near race day) Thank you!
So if i only ride my bike twice a week, should i do one long and slow session and one hard and short. Or could i do this 80:20 thing in one session (twice a week), like casually cruising along for a while and then do some interval work for example? thanks for die input ;)
Would you rather recommend doing the 80/20 method within one workout or to do 1 out of 5 workouts per week in a higher hr and 4 in the green zone aka around 135-140bpm? Thanks for the great content!!
I have actually been testing this for the past 2 months and seen great progress with many PR's by only doing a few hard sessions and many easy sessions each week. I currently have 3 key hard session each week, and the other 10 sessions are just super each cruisy jogs. Gives you plenty of time to recover and really push those hard sessions to their max, and still build up plenty of needed endurance with all the slow stuff. Keep in mind this is only running.
Stephen Seiler's (the scientist mentioned in the video) answer would be to do 1 high intensity workout, and 4 easy. Basically, he would say that doing 80/20 within *every* workout is the worst thing you can do, as going above roughly 75% of your peak HR triggers stress responses. So, if you do it every day, you're slowly but surely cooking yourself. Even more, if you're doing more than one session per day, he says it might even be better to schedule rough high intensity sessions *on the same day*. Basically, if you've already triggered the stress response that day, you might as well trigger it a bit more, but then do other days really, truly easy, so you can properly recover and be able to do tough days properly. Hope this helps and if you're interested, Seiler has done some great podcasts that are available here on yt where he goes into some detail over 80/20
Most of your sessions should be completely Zone 1-2. if get into zone 3 accidentily, it‘s not bad, but idealy you stay at low intensitiy. For high intensitiy use sessions like intervals, hills, or other stuff which motivates you. Note: 80/20 is still a lot of high intensity. If your an endurance athlete, 90/10 is actly better. + strength workouts of course. They are not in the counting here
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@@SR77SR Do you have the link for that podcast? I mean, I'm not lazy but there's about 20+ podcasts with Sieler as a guest
Second week of 80/20 and I am seriously doubting. I use summer training to counter the dreadmill and indoor bike fatigue of the winter. I have noticed that I don't feel like I am actually working on my workouts. Does this really help and how do you overcome the mental fear of wasting training time?
I don't understand how to use this with triathlon training. I used it for just cycling but when I'm training three different disciplines multiple times a week I don't understand when I should do the more intense sessions. I usually.go.with 75/25 which means that every fourth session should be intense. But at my current training level that means I would only have an intense run/bike once every two weeks and that seems too little. Am I looking to far into things?
What about the bike ride, train hard race easy. If i remember the words of cam wurf, correct me if i am wrong. What you don't do in your training you can't do in your race.
I think if running very slow has your heart rate go too high (higher than 180 - age) then you may need to slow the jog to a fast walk. Or mix the 2 so your heart rate is in the right zone. The idea is that eventually as you adapt to this style you'll be able to run/walk faster at the same heart rate. The end goal is to run much faster (also cover more distance) while also staying in zone 2 heart rate.
Thanks for the video, Im wondering if my warm up and cool down (together 1.5 hours) of my interval bike session (1 hour for example 6x5min with 5 min recovery) count for the 20 or 80%? And how about the recovery in between the intervals? Thanks in advance!
The warmup during your hard session counts toward the 20%. The sessions are divided by time, and not distance or number of sessions. Posting it here for others with similar questions. For detailed info check out the highly cite research paper: "Polarized training had greater impact on key endurance variables than threshold, high intensity, or high volume training"
I may have missed this in the video but 80/20 are we thinking 8 out of 10 sessions or 8 out of 10 hours or whatever you train as 2 hours of high intensity would be different to 2sessions of intervals etc.
Example: HIT workout 5x5min load/2.5min recovery Question: do the 2.5min recovery count for the 80% LIT share or still for the 20% HIT share? Own answer approach: Power wise in Watts it's definitely LIT. Pace wise too. But HR/metabolic wise i doubt that 2.5min recovery are enough for bringing your body back to use mostly lipid metabolism even though the heart rate might fall down to a LIT HR Level. What is your approach here?
Hi, I've got a sprint events September which will be my first triathlon! Was wondering if anyone can give advice on what training I should be doing at the moment (time, distance, insensity...) Due to cocid, it's a bit challenging to get some swimming practice in, si I'm focusing on the run and ride. Any advice?
I am not a coach, have been there, I think during the summer period(assuming that you are on the northern hemisphere and have access to o body of water swimmable) just try to get as much open water swimming time as possible under the belt, I have no idea about your current levels but generally speaking sprint races are all-out races. Don't over think it, for 20K bike you should be comfortably riding 30K, and if possible try to do brick sessions, ride for 30K and after a transition rehearsal go for a run for 3K only. For the distance of 5K run, start with 6-8 times 30"/30" s after a 15-20' warm up. A cruising 5K run and a long one 7-8K once a week as well, try to commute with the bike with some sprints on the way for fun, those will more than enough for a first Tri.
52yo new triathlete here -- I'm totally on board with easy cycling, but my 10k runs are Zones 4-5 all the way, and even a slow jog puts me into Zone 3. Should I do a brisk Zone 2 walk and hope I adapt to be faster, or keep the Zone 3 jogs and hope my HR drops? (Also, every time I do an easy run, my Garmin drops my Training Status to "Unproductive". What's up with that?)
Polarized training should be used for base training most of the year, not for peaking. It is a regular training program, not a peaking program. As you get closer to a big event, you should do more specific race-pace training and less volume.
Perfect (not) for someone who fence 3.5 hours (90% high intensity), cycle 3.5 hours (30%high intensity), swims 1 hour, runs 1 hour (110/0% high intensity) and does athletics 2.5hours (60%high intensity) in a week (:
I’m not a great cyclist, so if all of my 20% come within my running is that bad? Should we make sure that we get hard sessions in each discipline or does it not matter?
If your goal is to improve general fitness, it doesn't matter in which discipline you do your high intensity work. If your goal, on the other hand, was to improve your times in the respective sport, the principle of specificity dictates that it absolutely matters that you do your high intensity workouts in the specific discipline you want to improve.
you probably already know well that running is harder on your heart than cycling is, and also the muscle work/impact on joints is different, so train them separately.
@@ferlou2373 Wondering if that would mean that you should switch up the intensity sessions, e.g. one week bike, one week running, one week swimming. Also, strength training would be separate, right?
Can anybody please explain. If 20% is quality run (means that making more profit in all aspect for endurance, speed and etc) but it’s hard and we cannot do a lot of sessions through the week, and we need to rest with 80% slow running. So if 20% is more efficient why just not rest totally in easy days and not doing slow run (because it’s also load for your body) but instead of this just rest in slow running days and add one ore two 20% running workout? Is that will be much better or not, if not why ?
The way i do it is this: - cycling : for the 80% i uses heart rate and stick to my MAF limit. For the 20% i use power and do 2-3 times per week sweet spot inter session. This is for every week. - running: i use heart rate and stick to my MAF limit until i hit a plateau. Then i switch to 80 MAF / 20 tempo intervals
I can only handle 4/ days a week. So its better I do mostly high intensity. My body recovers to slowly to do.high mileage so I can't do 80%/easy. Skinner athletes carrying less weight can though or ones in teens and early 20s
Thats why you arent able to sustain more than 4 days a week. The easy days need to be ridiculously easy and hard days way harder as you will be well recovered and able to give the most high quality session.
Good intention, but too waffly and non-specific really. No mention of mitochondria or LT1 (Lactate threshold 1). Stay below LT1 for the 80% of you training. Over time you will get faster and stronger at this fixed HR. That’s what it is all about really… reprogramming your Mitochondria 😎. You will turn into a fat burning beast over time and be able to ride longer and faster all day. You can leave the 20% for race days or group rides, once a week max. Inigo San-Millan hints that 3 x 90minute < LT1 per week is optimum for ‘improvement’…!! It’s what that Podjcar guy does… Finding your own LT1 is the hard part, loads of formulas that are just guesses … best is an actual Lactate blood testing session. Get your own meter and do your own, with a pal, indoor bike with power meter is easiest. Do them every couple of months to see the direct effect of your training…
LT1 should correspond with VTII, so an HRM should be able to detect it. Not perfect, but good enough for most. But that would be Zone 1-3 on my Garmin for example, not Zone 1-2 as mentioned in the video.
I've been doing this for a few months with running. Seen huge progress with 3 key hard sessions per week (track set, interval set, threshold set), and 10 sessions in low HR and super easy each week. My max HR is 205 and I usually sit at 135-145BPM for these easy runs. I have found that my endurance has increased dramatically and my HR keeps getting lower as the weeks go on. 3 months ago I would run at 160BPM at 6mins/km. Now I'm running at 140BPM at 4:45min/km. While also being able to run much much faster for all distances from 200m through to half marathon.
I didn't specifically intend to use the 80/20 program. I just copied a few professional distance runners programs and this is essentially what most professionals do.
I 100% recommend doing this.
wait, you train 15 times per week? That is three sessions per day at some days and almost no rest?
@@stijndesmet4811 seems I miscalculated slightly . Just checked program and there are 13 sessions total. 3 hard and 10 easy. Every afternoon consists of an easy 30 - 40 minute run. So 7 sessions each week don't really fatigue the body. It seems like a lot but my body is constantly feeling fresh due to the 2 days between hard sessions.
Good to hear it works for you. It's something I've only recently picked up and I've seen a decent increase myself.
If only I was a teenager like you, I imagine my gains would be even higher. Oh to be young(er) again...
@@TheKorusuk I used to race a lot throughout high school and trained 10 or more times per week with almost all being hard swim, cycle or run sessions.
I've since fallen out of fitness in the 10 years since and thought I'd give running a good crack as it takes less hours to train properly compared to cycling or triathlon and so fits in with work.
I am much faster now than I was when I was at 18.
The main message I got from this 80/20 is that you have to go slow to race fast. Huge endurance and top level speed seem to be the most important thing.
I was reading a report online questioning the Kenyon run coach in the early 2000s and he said the only thing that matters with endurance athletes is how many easy runs they do, and how fast they can run 1km. This falls inline with 80/20 as you either go easy, or fast. I between speed doesn't matter as much.
@@TomGrievee Hi Tom! what you've achieved sounds really interesting! congratulations! Now, I have a question, what is your resting heart rate? I've noticed that as I progressed, mine dwindled by 2 bpm(at the moment it's somewhere around 42-44 and during the night it has even been 39!) and I know I should not necessarily worry but I'm curious of yours. Thank you!
Psychologically it's so hard to back off on the intensity when training even though I know it will help me make gains. I need to focus on this more often. Great informative video. Thanks!
I’m attempting it now. And it’s been so challenging staying in the zone 3 area. It’s boring, it’s slow and it feels physically more challenging .
It just feels too easy to make some gains. But I also like that I don't feel like trash the next few days after the training. The boringness is easy to overcome listening to podcast, audiobooks, music or just by enjoying the silence.
4:29 I'm down with the 75:15 ratio 😎👍😄
Keeps 10% more for resting 😀
😅
80/20 is so hard with Zwift Racing & Strava segments causing temptation all the time!
I know exactly what you mean. I keep falling into that trap
Haha, yeah xD My typical training week has a Zwift race during the week, (sometimes two) padded out with some Z2, then my "endurance" ride at the weekend is more of a 4-5 hour hill smashing fest :P
You can make the custom training plans, and it will ignore all that stuff
TriathlonDan simple, stay off Zwift and Strava.. sorted.
I have been in the army for 13 years and hated running every second of that time ... until I overheard a couple buddies talking about 80/20 running. I just finished an 80/20 5K plan today and fell in love with running so much I decided to train for my first IRONMAN! Really great method!
If you want to respect the 80 : 20 rule you've got to train alone I'm afraid. Group rides in particular are always too high in terms of intensity :/
Use it for the 20% aspect. If I have intervals due over the weekend I substitute for a group ride.
Yep. I reduced my group rides or I found a group ride that was in my 80 and switched to it. Once I did that, I started dominating those other group rides. It was funny because those 20% group rides started getting stupid. The regroup point stopped being a regroup point type of stuff. Those meatheads truly ruined that ride.
Just need to be a big step fitter/ faster than the groups you train with 😉
It really depends on who you are.
I can only recommend training with someone slower. E.g. doing a training with my wife is oftentimes a base training for me, but not for her. Also, using worse or better gear might help to change the difficulty.
I'm training according to that method for quite some time now and it really works phenomenally!
I have just started with this strategy, and since I am 46 yet, it fits me well so far, as the recovery takes longer than it did 20 years ago.. I guess 2 times/week going hard is enough, if you really do the hard stuff so HARD, that you lose your language, and the low stuff so LOW that in ocasion you get lapped by a granny on a shopping bike. And it feels really nice goin low, instead of that constant intensity mix on every lap, without a real benefit for the efforts, as the studies obvioulsy proved
Yea I did a 16k easy and I feel fine whereas a few more heart beats and I'd feel tired and less able to go again tomorrow. Now I can go easy again tomorrow and think about a quality set Tuesday. No more feeling tired all the time, not hitting the quality sessions well enough and just doing low reward high effort Tempo work.
Thank you GTN!!! this was very insightful!!!
the best explanation i have found so far. so it is time and not distance based division. and that recovery times are a part of it. most of the other videos say "volume".🙄 i understand that it doesnt have to be precise but still need to know the overal guidelines. you were very helpful. thank you so much. i have just finished grueling 3 months of 100% in zone 1 and 2 running to get my ego in check and make sure that 80% is done properly, build base, learn running economy in those zones to prepare me for the next 3 or more month of 80/20. cant wait to introduce some speedwork, haha.
I recently got a power meter for the bike to slow me down, I realised I have been working too hard for much of my training. It seems counterintuitive but I'm already seeing gains !!! 👌
I've been training this way for a few months now. Really enjoying it and looking forward to see what comes of it.
How did it go?
Great video. I agree it’s only a guide but not sure how 75/15 will work but I like the idea! Presumably other 10 you can just chill out!
Been using this type of training principle for a while and it works for me. The type of training we should do will be depend on the type of our fitness level. Thanks for sharing this video as always very useful content. Thumbs up .
Have to say it works, i followed a 80/20 program for my first middle distance and being a old git, it was easier on my body. Shame it was cancelled but stuck with the program anyway. I know whats coming for next year now and hopefully not lose 3 months of swimming :)
Love it! Thank you.
Very interesting 🤔😀thanks for sharing
just finished to read 80:20 from Matt Fitzgerald and this video reminds me lots of tips from it :) i suggest to check out for maffatone method ;)
Really informative video thanks!! I heard about this method a few weeks back and I’ve been building a training plan around it. Are there any tips for how to build the time spent training, other than strictly sticking to low intensity efforts? I’m a strong cyclist and have struggled working my runs in without affecting my perceived effort on the bike. Thanks in advance.
thanks guys!!
one of the main benefits is injury reduction, fat burning, technique refinement in that zone 2. the spice can be added later with interval efforts or the 20%. the body can go very far in that zone 2 effort
Started training last year and basically did 0/100 training. Always low volume and high intensity so I could get it over with. Went from 112 kg to 98 kg and went from 27 minutes to 23.30 minutes on the 5K. I now have more joy in running and doing 80/20 which should be much more effective. Hoping to get under the 20 minutes this year.
can you cover a video about polarized training in a 6 month training period? their pros and cons, really curious about it! cheers!
Guys - this "new" approach was already in the high performance sports earlier. It was Heinrich Bergsmüller chief of the Austrian Olympic Wintersports location in Obertrauern/Salzburg. He was the coach who made Hermann Maier the best and elite athlete in ski racing. There is a lot of documentation about his training method which works really good....
Was looking into trying to implement the Pareto principle into my training. Thanks for the vid guys :)
My understanding of polarized training is that the closer you get to race day, the more race-like your workout becomes. How does 80/20 fit into the traditional base, build, peak, and race structure? is 80/20 only for base or build?
It is understandable you got confused about this because the video got it wrong and you have it right. Polarized training is for regular base training. It is not a peaking program. Yes, as you get closer to a big event, you do more race pace training and less polarized training.
This was interesting as a taster but would be good to have some more details please in a more specific GTN-training explained video, Mark. A few questions: if you are a 'typical' age grouper with a job etc who is able to do say 6-7 sessions a week. Do the swims count as high intensity or can they be in the 80% even if at effort? What if you are doing a couple of bikes and 3-4 runs for the rest - I can't really see how to divide 2 bikes into 80:20 - potentially a hard 1 hr session and a 4 hour long slow ride at the weekend? And then I would normally do a tempo run, a track session, 1 LSR and potentially a short recovery run - but can't see that a tempo and a track will fit into an 80:20 week?
Can you please make a video on how to distribute the intensity across the swim, bike and the run like where to place a hard run relative to a hard bike session for those who can't afford a coach. Should I do the hard run with the hard bike or separate those two sessions or a combination of both?
Curious about that too. Did you find an answer?
I've been doing this for 4 weeks after 5 weeks z2 only base.
Definitely not easy to do so... just yesterday over did it again with 118km on mountain bike... have to take this in consideration. THANKS 😊
How do pro’s use the 80/20 rule? When riding 15 hours, running like 8 hours and swimming for 7 hours a week the 20% must be around 3 hours, 96 min and 84 min a week. How do they schedule this into their program? Especially for the bike and run where quite a lot of the same muscles are used. Do they perform like 3 higher intensity days for the bike and 3 higher intensity days for the run in one week(6 in total)? Or do they combine these days?
Mark isn’t this just kind of implementing the Maffetone Method in to all your training but with the odd training session at a higher level. I try to keep all my training in a Z2 especially on my long runs and bike sessions, it does spike to Z3, but I do try to keep it in Z2 for the majority.
Another good question...I’m wondering what’s the difference between 80/20 or polarized training and Maffetone training, if any difference at all. Maybe MAF is more HR-specific, but also recommends around 80% low HR training?
Thanks for another great video! In the end you mention that early on in your season you should back down the 20% I just wanted to get clarity on that. Do you mean you should train at a low intensity for MORE than 80% of you time. If so does the inverse apply as you get close to your A race. (Meaning train at lower intensity only 75% as you near race day) Thank you!
Good question. I’m wondering the same thing
@@glassmw9823 Less time above the aerobic threshold in the beginning.
So if i only ride my bike twice a week, should i do one long and slow session and one hard and short. Or could i do this 80:20 thing in one session (twice a week), like casually cruising along for a while and then do some interval work for example?
thanks for die input ;)
just an fyi. It's not Stlyer with a T. It's Dr. Seiler.
I take the 75:15 ratio which you suggested ( I guess the last 10% are leisure time then...)
As i run and bike....
is it ok to do the low intensity while running and the high itensity on the bike?
Or do i have lit and hit in both?
Would you rather recommend doing the 80/20 method within one workout or to do 1 out of 5 workouts per week in a higher hr and 4 in the green zone aka around 135-140bpm? Thanks for the great content!!
I have actually been testing this for the past 2 months and seen great progress with many PR's by only doing a few hard sessions and many easy sessions each week. I currently have 3 key hard session each week, and the other 10 sessions are just super each cruisy jogs. Gives you plenty of time to recover and really push those hard sessions to their max, and still build up plenty of needed endurance with all the slow stuff. Keep in mind this is only running.
Stephen Seiler's (the scientist mentioned in the video) answer would be to do 1 high intensity workout, and 4 easy. Basically, he would say that doing 80/20 within *every* workout is the worst thing you can do, as going above roughly 75% of your peak HR triggers stress responses. So, if you do it every day, you're slowly but surely cooking yourself. Even more, if you're doing more than one session per day, he says it might even be better to schedule rough high intensity sessions *on the same day*. Basically, if you've already triggered the stress response that day, you might as well trigger it a bit more, but then do other days really, truly easy, so you can properly recover and be able to do tough days properly. Hope this helps and if you're interested, Seiler has done some great podcasts that are available here on yt where he goes into some detail over 80/20
Most of your sessions should be completely Zone 1-2. if get into zone 3 accidentily, it‘s not bad, but idealy you stay at low intensitiy.
For high intensitiy use sessions like intervals, hills, or other stuff which motivates you.
Note: 80/20 is still a lot of high intensity. If your an endurance athlete, 90/10 is actly better. + strength workouts of course. They are not in the counting here
@@SR77SR Do you have the link for that podcast? I mean, I'm not lazy but there's about 20+ podcasts with Sieler as a guest
@@SR77SR So for a triathlete, would that mean doing all intense sessions, swim, run, bike on one day? Basically something like a sprint triathlon?
How can we adjust the 80% to 20% time most appropriately? Which comes first, which comes after?
Is this still beneficial for sprint distance?
So how do I figure out my 3 zones? What's the percentages for each zone if I know my FTP?
Second week of 80/20 and I am seriously doubting. I use summer training to counter the dreadmill and indoor bike fatigue of the winter. I have noticed that I don't feel like I am actually working on my workouts. Does this really help and how do you overcome the mental fear of wasting training time?
When you do long slow runs, and see your heart rate start to drop after 3 weeks, you suddenly get motivation.
I don't understand how to use this with triathlon training. I used it for just cycling but when I'm training three different disciplines multiple times a week I don't understand when I should do the more intense sessions. I usually.go.with 75/25 which means that every fourth session should be intense. But at my current training level that means I would only have an intense run/bike once every two weeks and that seems too little. Am I looking to far into things?
What about the bike ride, train hard race easy.
If i remember the words of cam wurf, correct me if i am wrong.
What you don't do in your training you can't do in your race.
Does walking at brisk pace count as low intensity work out or is it importent to do the actual running motion?
Hell no
I think if running very slow has your heart rate go too high (higher than 180 - age) then you may need to slow the jog to a fast walk. Or mix the 2 so your heart rate is in the right zone. The idea is that eventually as you adapt to this style you'll be able to run/walk faster at the same heart rate. The end goal is to run much faster (also cover more distance) while also staying in zone 2 heart rate.
I need to walk to stay at Zone 2 is that correct
Thanks for the video, Im wondering if my warm up and cool down (together 1.5 hours) of my interval bike session (1 hour for example 6x5min with 5 min recovery) count for the 20 or 80%? And how about the recovery in between the intervals? Thanks in advance!
It’s based on sessions rather than time, so your interval session is classed as part of the 20 percent.
The warmup during your hard session counts toward the 20%. The sessions are divided by time, and not distance or number of sessions. Posting it here for others with similar questions.
For detailed info check out the highly cite research paper: "Polarized training had greater impact on key endurance variables than threshold, high intensity, or high volume training"
If your doing a tempo run, speedwork, interval bike, tempo bike. Then when do you get time to go slow?
That's precisely the point ur doing too much high intensity, ur not focusing on your hard sessions and will likely plateau or overtrain.
I may have missed this in the video but 80/20 are we thinking 8 out of 10 sessions or 8 out of 10 hours or whatever you train as 2 hours of high intensity would be different to 2sessions of intervals etc.
Sessions rather than time.
According to Dr Seiler, the 80:20 approach is based on sessions and NOT time.
Not distance?
Hmmm....could this work for strength training? Like squatting light 80% of the time and hitting 90% of 1RM 20% of the time?
Example: HIT workout 5x5min load/2.5min recovery
Question: do the 2.5min recovery count for the 80% LIT share or still for the 20% HIT share?
Own answer approach: Power wise in Watts it's definitely LIT. Pace wise too. But HR/metabolic wise i doubt that 2.5min recovery are enough for bringing your body back to use mostly lipid metabolism even though the heart rate might fall down to a LIT HR Level.
What is your approach here?
Hi, I've got a sprint events September which will be my first triathlon! Was wondering if anyone can give advice on what training I should be doing at the moment (time, distance, insensity...) Due to cocid, it's a bit challenging to get some swimming practice in, si I'm focusing on the run and ride. Any advice?
I am not a coach, have been there, I think during the summer period(assuming that you are on the northern hemisphere and have access to o body of water swimmable) just try to get as much open water swimming time as possible under the belt, I have no idea about your current levels but generally speaking sprint races are all-out races. Don't over think it, for 20K bike you should be comfortably riding 30K, and if possible try to do brick sessions, ride for 30K and after a transition rehearsal go for a run for 3K only. For the distance of 5K run, start with 6-8 times 30"/30" s after a 15-20' warm up. A cruising 5K run and a long one 7-8K once a week as well, try to commute with the bike with some sprints on the way for fun, those will more than enough for a first Tri.
Btw, if you don't have access to a swimming venue, but are confident in water, try to work with elastic cords to improve technique and muscle memory.
52yo new triathlete here -- I'm totally on board with easy cycling, but my 10k runs are Zones 4-5 all the way, and even a slow jog puts me into Zone 3. Should I do a brisk Zone 2 walk and hope I adapt to be faster, or keep the Zone 3 jogs and hope my HR drops?
(Also, every time I do an easy run, my Garmin drops my Training Status to "Unproductive". What's up with that?)
have you tested your run heart rate zones? they probably differ from the bike, set these up and refer your RPE with heart rate as guide.
I want to focus on the video but all I can think about is the fact that he completed the Norseman Xtreme......
4:25 God dammit that’s what I’m literally doing right now splitting up my training
Two errors
1) Dr Seiler not Steiler
2) 80:20 is 80:20 workout z1:3.. NOT 80:20 by time-in-zone!.. by time in zone it’s more like 90:10 or 95:5
80/20 applies to low and high intensity. Moderate (Z3 in the 6 zone model) is excluded and should be avoided.
Polarized training should be used for base training most of the year, not for peaking. It is a regular training program, not a peaking program. As you get closer to a big event, you should do more specific race-pace training and less volume.
75:15 ratio?
I mean, these are valid odds. This translates roughly to 83:17, but I am pretty sure he did not mean that :P
Haha sorry I really did not mean that!! Whoops
Well mr. Perfectionist here
Don't you ever make a mistake?
Perfect (not) for someone who fence 3.5 hours (90% high intensity), cycle 3.5 hours (30%high intensity), swims 1 hour, runs 1 hour (110/0% high intensity) and does athletics 2.5hours (60%high intensity) in a week (:
I’m not a great cyclist, so if all of my 20% come within my running is that bad? Should we make sure that we get hard sessions in each discipline or does it not matter?
If your goal is to improve general fitness, it doesn't matter in which discipline you do your high intensity work. If your goal, on the other hand, was to improve your times in the respective sport, the principle of specificity dictates that it absolutely matters that you do your high intensity workouts in the specific discipline you want to improve.
you probably already know well that running is harder on your heart than cycling is, and also the muscle work/impact on joints is different, so train them separately.
@@ferlou2373 Wondering if that would mean that you should switch up the intensity sessions, e.g. one week bike, one week running, one week swimming. Also, strength training would be separate, right?
Can anybody please explain. If 20% is quality run (means that making more profit in all aspect for endurance, speed and etc) but it’s hard and we cannot do a lot of sessions through the week, and we need to rest with 80% slow running. So if 20% is more efficient why just not rest totally in easy days and not doing slow run (because it’s also load for your body) but instead of this just rest in slow running days and add one ore two 20% running workout? Is that will be much better or not, if not why ?
The way i do it is this:
- cycling : for the 80% i uses heart rate and stick to my MAF limit. For the 20% i use power and do 2-3 times per week sweet spot inter session. This is for every week.
- running: i use heart rate and stick to my MAF limit until i hit a plateau. Then i switch to 80 MAF / 20 tempo intervals
75/15? ;)
So are we talking average heart rate at zone 2 or try stay at that heart rate the whole way
time in zone over the week as average not useful
I always try to stay in that easy zone for the entire easy session. keep the sessions entirely easy to build endurance
Why say 3, 4 and above... isn't that just 3 and above?
Wheres the evidence it works though?
like literally EVERY African runner does this.
Sounds more like a math class than a training class
Can you at least get the man's name right?
yeah, I was also like: WHO'S STEILER? :D
If you really know how to go hard, 10 or 15% of training is PLENTY of intensity. You won’t want to do any more !
I can only handle 4/ days a week. So its better I do mostly high intensity. My body recovers to slowly to do.high mileage so I can't do 80%/easy. Skinner athletes carrying less weight can though or ones in teens and early 20s
Thats why you arent able to sustain more than 4 days a week. The easy days need to be ridiculously easy and hard days way harder as you will be well recovered and able to give the most high quality session.
Good intention, but too waffly and non-specific really.
No mention of mitochondria or LT1 (Lactate threshold 1). Stay below LT1 for the 80% of you training. Over time you will get faster and stronger at this fixed HR. That’s what it is all about really… reprogramming your Mitochondria 😎. You will turn into a fat burning beast over time and be able to ride longer and faster all day. You can leave the 20% for race days or group rides, once a week max. Inigo San-Millan hints that 3 x 90minute < LT1 per week is optimum for ‘improvement’…!! It’s what that Podjcar guy does…
Finding your own LT1 is the hard part, loads of formulas that are just guesses … best is an actual Lactate blood testing session. Get your own meter and do your own, with a pal, indoor bike with power meter is easiest. Do them every couple of months to see the direct effect of your training…
LT1 should correspond with VTII, so an HRM should be able to detect it. Not perfect, but good enough for most. But that would be Zone 1-3 on my Garmin for example, not Zone 1-2 as mentioned in the video.