I actually find the guy insufferable and annoying, but that might just be me. carwow is a channel I avoid precisely because I don't like the presenter much.
I am one of the people you're talking about (started and left Hoonigan) and feel like you are mostly right but also overlooking a few major items. Namely, often times, the people you see on camera only did a select portion of what it takes to make a successful channel so there is a lot of security on just showing up and being "talent". Big Time is the perfect example of departing while on top, having the main brand promote the new brand, and coming out with the same quality content the viewers expected on from Donut. On my side, Hoonigan was on a decline (due to all the corp crap) and they didn't help myself or Hert promote our new ventures. As a solo creator the ad revenue is no where near what I made for a salary. If you can't figure out sponsorships, ads and drive the viewers to somewhere else to make money it is quickly a lot of effort for a very low return. I'm sticking to the low overhead route but even for channels like Big Time, they are 7 people so you need to make a lot of money to cover the expenses.
Adding to this: When you go from whats called an individual contributor type role to someone who is responsible for everything, its not as easy a transition as you think. Doug, you've been in that headspace since you started, and are used to what it means. Not everyone is okay with that level of responsibility, or can physically handle it. Like, I can handle a 10-20 person rush single handedly at my small business, but I see how my team and managers struggle with it. Then on top of that, since you are responsible for everything, that means you need to learn time management, maybe what these folks want is to just be responsible for that one niche and not worry about taxes or cashflow.
Well said Vin. Hoping it works out for you, but Doug sees low barrier for entry and doesn't realize oversaturation, algorithm issues, and that youtube ad revenue is trash. It's not a simple thing to venture out on your own!
@@diegohorton869Doug’s channel is worth far more than $1 million. Plus he got big cash (millions) for his car auction company when he sold a portion of it… Needles to say he does not need the money and seems like he has having a blast these days. He is not going anywhere anytime soon…
A lot of what you've said here is spot on. And of course they get to be in charge of their own destiny a bit more, while also earning more money. Sadly, it appears we are the grandpas of CZcams, but happily been independent the whole time,. We started filming in 2007 and uploaded our first 'How To Pimp Your Car for $500' episode in January 2008 so I guess that makes us the old, grey nomads of the CZcams-sphere.
You guys and MCM are absolute legends. Worthy patriarchs of Aussie Car YT.... Besides you only play old men on those commercials... You guys are hardly grandpas...
A lot of other channels either do one thing more extreme than the other, then flopping. Or those that get corpo'ed, and instantly stales. Then MCM. Yeah maybe not the most extreme builds tubular 2000hp internet slay stuff, but almost all of your builds are more sensible, reliable street cars built with ease of maintenance in mind, and not too much custom CNC'd parts strewn all across like confetti. What's the point of having a cool car if it isn't street legal & daily'able? That's a lost art these days with all the 1200-2000hp CNC stuff, when the 100-600hp stuff is what people most often tune back into. You're not just the grandpa's of the YT Car scene, you're also the most sensible and relatable.
*Wong Fu Productions has entered the chat* *FreddieW has entered the chat* *Michelle Phan has entered the chat* *Mystery Guitar Man has entered the chat*
Hanging in there for over 10 years, aint gonna go, aint gonna sell, sometimes it's tough being on your own, but the best boss you could have is still no one 😄
I'm sure Jason Camissa has a pretty favorable salary package. Hagerty is providing an incredible editing and production value to the CZcams platform. In my opinion they have raised the bar.
@@TheLorsx but did he only make this video after watching Alanis King’s video she made? Neither addressed her leaving C&B’s, and Doug essentially copied her video but with less substance. Her video was really good on the matter
She worked for Cars and Bids and did videos with Doug for a bit. Was a longtime writer for Jalopnik, and was just gone one day from this channel, and then started her own. I’m guessing Doug didn’t want to pay her more or something like that
The matt watson point is slightly different as yes he does get paid a salary but hes also stated he has shares in carwow as part of his deal, therefore the incentive to leave isnt as high
Nothing indicates its anything but small shares. He still ends up getting loaner cars from manufacturers with relatively old cars for himself indicating hes not getting a big enough piece of that pie.
@@BeefIngothe had a share of a media company that gets millions of views every video. I’m sure he’s fairly compensated. Carwows been the same way for 10+ years. All these other companies and shows have changed significantly in the last years to meet the changing audience.
@@forresttm IIRC they said in a podcast with Matt Farah that they only have two extre crew members for camera & audio. A four man team for what they do is insanely small, but it's awesome since everyone leaves with a bigger paycheck
@Sv3NSv3NsoN^^this. James always struck me as an actor who happens to like cars. He's somewhat knowledgeable about cars, but you can tell he doesn't fully understand how everything works the way the others do. James said a bunch of weird or inaccurate things over the years, more so than the other guys/gals. Still love him and I'm glad he's still with us.
@@Faux_59 doug bringing them on C&B’s channel in front of the camera is the equivalent of a girl who’s a solid 6.5 surrounding herself with “friends” that are 3s and 4s to make herself look like an 8+! 😂
I wouldn’t worry about that. Personally, I would never watch Kennan or Philipo if they had their own channels. Not to be mean, but they would both put me to sleep
A significant percentage of people just aren't wired to go out "on their own". They are much more comfortable with minimizing risk and stress, being an employee and taking a regular paycheck. For them, it can absolutely be worth leaving a lot of money on the table if it means they can avoid that kind of stress and still earn enough to live very comfortably. Money isn't everything to everyone
Yeah, that's true, but if they're "creatives", they're eventually going to chafe under the corporate yoke anyway. It's easy enough to live the corporate grind if by "freak in the sheets" you mean you have god-tier Excel skills. It's not so easy when your talent is to create great content and the suits want you to do top 10 lists and sketchy reviews of Chinese EVs instead. Even if you're comfortably paid for it, you're probably still going to eventually walk away. The way Donut is going, they're going to be left with Jimmy and whoever that other dude was in their "crappy truck accessories" review video. Whatever, it wasn't a good video.
Start your own business instead of working for somebody else. That's been going on forever. I don't see the insight here. The problem is 90% of small businesses fail in the first few years.
@@paulie-Gualtieri. I don't think he comes from money. He has a lot now though. But work for yourself instead of somebody else is nothing new. Advantages and disadvantages to both.
I’m an independent and always have been. On the other side of this I have been approached by larger entities trying to absorb me any my channel into their business. Which is usually a sneaky attempt to gain rights to my likeness and everything I’ve already created. I honestly wonder how many independents this happens to.
What makes me laugh is these "investors" think they are buying a "brand" and people's loyalty is to the brand. They have no concept of quality, artistry, knowledge, character...all the things that make a channel worth watching. If the channel sucks, people stop watching, period. If the creatives leave, the channel is toast. I'm kind of glad the parasitic investor class doesn't get this, and that youtube is still a place where (in theory) anybody with quality content can shine. It's a great equalizer. The minute the money people are involved, everything goes to hell.
I completely agree with you. What's also funny is that this platform is called CZcams - the "you" implies a creative individual is the one making the content, not (necessarily) a brand. And an investor can't buy the "you" so when the "you" leaves the channel, viewers follow the "you". MBA stands for Mostly Bad Advice, and really, business degrees should be considered as worthless as a chiropractor or any other psuedo-science quack degree.
It’s been interesting being on the other side of this. I started my own channel and have been approached by a couple of larger media outlets about creating stuff for them and it was clear both times that they had nothing to offer me. It would be less freedom and less creativity for less money. The flip side is that you have to do everything if you’re doing it yourself. Videos require a lot of effort in writing, editing, video and audio, thumbnails, ideas, fabrication, etc, and you have to be at least kind of good at all of it. or at least hire and manage people that are. I could see someone like Cammisa being content where he is given that he doesn’t have to do everything to be a presenter on excellent videos. There is a future where I would work for a larger production company as a member of a larger team, making less money than I do now for the same amount of work. It would be nice to work with a group of people making something great and focus on the things that I’m good at and enjoy. But the chances of that company existing as a subsidiary of a larger profit-driven company is basically zero. These companies being bought up by investors means that the primary goal will always be making money. Whereas a lot of independent CZcamsrs want to make good videos, and hopefully make some money in the process. I think that makes a huge difference in the quality of the videos and the quality of life when making the videos.
Semi-rhetorical question: Do you think that you would create that kind of company? It's a flawed question though, because creating that kind of company would likely mean more work and less enjoyable work for you.
Matt you’re a little over qualified for CZcamsr car guy in fairness 🤪. But definitely do a collaboration build at some point maybe bracket building competition to see if good enough can be quicker than a BOM rabbit hole 👌🏻
It’s the classic vulture capital playbook: sweep in and purchase something that someone else built, degrade the product, raise prices and/or stuff in more adverts, and make as much money as possible before the audience gets tired and leaves. Then, once the business is sucked dry, move on and find the next one to prey upon.
Yep. Along with cutting costs and firing people to line investor’s pockets. Vulture capitalism affects basically every industry, but it’s way more prevalent on youtube than you’d think.
Not disagreeing with your fundamental point at all, but the vulture capitalists don't just walk through the gates and own the place... Investors PAY somebody for the privilege of ultimately running the firm into the ground or over-optimizing or sucking the creativity/ingenuity out. Assuming the firm is doing well, the founders/original owners get to decide to sell and ultimately get rich (hopefully). Nobody is mad at them, right? I think it's the managerial culture and elitism/arrogance of the ownership/upper mgmt folks that think they don't have to continue aligning their incentives with those of creators (or just general employees in other industries). Eventually the focus becomes on extracting maximum value and minimizing cost rather than doing that in a way which doesn't compromise the long term growth/virility of the company that made it worthwhile in the first place. This just shows the lack of appreciation for what makes a company great by most (not all) investors.
My observation as someone who's enjoyed car youtube for the past 15 or so years is that production value and the cost of production continues to rise. Private equity is an obvious way for channels to get an infusion of cash to increase their production value but once they do that, the creatives are no longer in charge. Someone with a huge following is not just able to leave and start their own channel but freeing themselves from the restrictions of a company means the creative is once again in charge. I'm not surprised that we are seeing larger channels break up or fall down. I'm with Doug here. Watching people retake control of the creative process and seeing the space be more innovative is truly fantastic for fans.
I'm in an entirely different industry, but I was essentially at a donut for Real Estate. I left, and now have my own brand. My clients are now charged less, and I make 3x more per sale. It's scary, but my god it was worth it. Start with the biggest. Learn from the best. Move on.
Making youtube videos is easy. Making good youtube videos is not very easy. But having an interesting and welcoming personality with a baked in following puts eyeballs on those new videos. And yet you still you still need well edited well written well produced videos to continue that viewership. It's not a guarantee, but when you fire on all cylinders like BigTime it's a perfect storm.
I was not expecting TTC here lmaoo... and you're right, I watch your videos for the production quality and the humor and most of the time I have zero need for any of those tools being tested. 😂
I think you nailed it (or torqued it) is a mix of personality and quality what I follow. When I say quality is not perfection but enough TLC for a good product
@@SouthMainAuto look whatever it takes to make the viewers happy… and nothing better that shoddy repairs since it make me look like I know what I’m doing
That’s why I started my own CZcams channel. The barrier to entry was higher when I started but it’s gotten easier for new creators! Big up to Doug for looking out for other creators! 👍🏾
@@Charlie-Charlot which is still not possible on modern CZcams. To have minimal required quality CZcamsr need at least outsourced editor and cover designer.
My favorite thing about CZcams right now is it has been filling my algorithm with really small, newer automotive channels. Regarding what you talk about here…it’s truly unfortunate when profits and big business destroy channels that started off so good.
This I can attest to… I just started my CZcams channel last year and though my channel is still in it’s infancy, one of my first videos did 70k views in just 1-3 months of uploading it. And so far I can average out 1500 or so views per video I put out. I’m glad that the algorithm is putting small CZcamsrs like me on the home page. Helps get our content out there that tends to be pretty decent but gets overshadowed by much larger channels.
In late April 2024, the FTC announced a ban on non-compete agreements. I bet this is happening now because these people were subject to those agreements.
@@sheetsda this is exactly it. Shout out to Biden for getting it done! Helped create new content in the car scene and helped me go to a competitor and make more money 💰
The state of it is in disarray. CZcams has been doing quite bad at it's promise to "support small creators". As well, in CZcams's defense, the space is TOTALLY saturated. When our channel goes to the car shows in south Florida, it's apparent along the literal side lines, that there's about 50-100 Gen Z creators filming the exact same content. It's extremely frustrating to put a lot of editing into a video, and then see that CZcams has "shut the video off". What I mean by that, is that the views flatline, which is obvious when you see the impressions have flat line, that CZcams has algorithmically decided to stop showing the video to people.
@@TheBreaded and yet there are channels in that niche that do over 100k views in 48 hours. I do them sometimes because I'm there and just showing people what's out there in different areas of the world other than where they live. I focus on budget builds and anything gearhead related and sometimes that's car shows. But I'm small and just doing what I can with what I got. Videoing my journey as normal everyday Motorhead.
I think production value is a huge factor. Hagerty goes way over the top for Camissa’s videos. Take that production level away and I don’t think he’d have the pull he has at hagerty.
WTF1 probably detonated their business faster about 8 months ago. Suits weren’t willing to play ball with Matt & Tommy the main presenters people liked, they said screwit, started their own F1 channel, [*P1 w/ Matt & Tommy] and they’ve left WTF1 in the dust to the point where I don’t even believe wtf1 posts anymore. A million follower channel gone overnight
Right! And all they had to do was not be such greedy fucks and give the talent some ownership share. That way there's incentive, and they can grow with the channel. Unfortunately, a lot of people who run companies are quite narrow minded.
Your friend Hoovie is trying to get sympathy as a multi millionaire, Freddy is spending a god awful amount of money on restoring a million dollar car, Cleatus does nothing relatable anymore it's all outrageous stunts now. All of these channels used to be relatable and fun to watch.
Doug is making some great points here as always. Working for someone else may score points in the “daily score”, but it’ll never be as rewarding as the “weekend score” of going on your own path.
I have no interest in that and millions of others agree. I rather work for someone make a good salary and go home and do what I want that is not work related. I literally work 20hrs/week and make over 140k for IT consulting. I am in my early 50s and I value free time over money. Workaholics will not understand this.
Yeah I think he owns a portion of it, though I don't think it's very big. Worth noting Mat has his own channel, but while it gets decent views, Carwow gets massively more
@@CB21001 in recent years Carwow has gotten a lot more commercial. They used to spend a lot of time talking about actual useful stuff that you’d think about when buying a car but these days they’re just obsessed with clickbait titles, skipping out on the infotainment and practicality review sections almost entirely, posting drag races (fun but not exactly useful) and a boatload of infomercials for Chinese cars.
History repeating itself... 60 years ago, in the then relatively new industry of rock n roll, a group of musicians questioned why they were doing all the creative work but only getting a fraction of the returns. So the Beatles created their own record label. Led Zeppelin took control of their own live tours. That's when they really, finally, saw the financial returns they were due.
On the British CZcams side, The Late Brake Show now has 660K subscribers, being a one person show, while the Fully Charged Show has 1.07M subscribers and a very big team. Johnny Smith is an amazing creator and it would have been a shame for him not to have his own channel. His barn find series are truly wonderful.
Glad that he's getting there, he "fully" deserves it and is frankly better than all of FC combined. I don't understand how "oh we're so independent" Fully Charged was able these amazing productions from so early on. HOW? Did Bobby get a tremendous investment to burn through? So so so so many hours hiring really good video production people...
I got his point on Brad, as Brad needed tens to hundreds of millions in funding to do it. Not a smart phone/camera/laptop, an email address and an idea. Which is all you need to start a YT channel.
This is classic capitalism. The owner of the channel doesn’t pay their employees what they deserve so the employees, who are the backbone of the channel, quit. Just pay people what they deserve!
I think you’re mostly correct. I think Zack and Jeremiah probably had that in the back of their minds for a long time. Then you have talented guys like them doing their 5th “we bought car products from Temu” videos like… maaaybe we should
@@TechTimeWithEric I'd say Zack and Jeremiah had a bit of a different reason for starting Big Time tho. They weren't doing what they were hired to do, and as the VC that funds everything started exerting more pressure to copy other channel formats, do stupid "cheap" quiz episodes and paid sponsorships for cars nobody wants, the guys said enough was enough. It's not just them tho, look how many people followed them to their new channel. Donut's product is stale and boring and entirely enshitified. Big Time is back to the basics - building cool f'in cars and getting your knuckles scraped and dirty.
@@SoCalGuitarist in their video explaing why they left, they mentioned something about the original owners planning on offering them equity in Donut, and losing that opportunity when the channel sold. They all but outright said that a big part of leaving was financial.
@@maxjones5705 Jason has stated many times that the content he excels at, which are longer, high quality films with many cars and environments requires large backing that he couldn’t provide on his own, thus he needs a patron like Hagerty to produce it.
@elishavargas5316 There's also the possibility that Jason is part of the population that just isn't wired to be an entrepreneur, that he might be someone who will sacrifice money for the security of a regular paycheck and would rather someone else be "the boss". For a lot of people, if you can be free of that stress and still make a very comfortable living, they will leave a lot of money on the table.
He has an essential open checkbook from Hagerty. Why would he leave? Hagerty’s business model is good for the creators. They aren’t focused on views. They want to sell insurance policies so the revenue from the videos is an added bonus.
I get the advantage to doing it on your own. That's how I run my businesses. I've had a CZcams channel and made some money doing it. You're kidding yourself if you think having your own channel puts you in significantly more control. By striking out on your own you're just cutting out a middle man, but you're still not the boss. The algorithm is. You will always be at the mercy of a platform that you do not control whether you're getting the AdShare rev or a paycheck. The benefit to working for a company is that you still get to build your brand, but you don't take the risk. You continually get paid to build your brand. Sure, you may never fully cash in. But I think a lot of folks are OK with that, and even if I'm not one of them, there's no shame. Just a different strategy.
I didn't even realize that they are not the owners until recently. Nobody is watching because of the name of the channel or the company. Whenever the creator goes, the audience goes. No one cares about the companies. Even on TV, when the trio left top gear and started grand tour, nobody stayed to watch topgear.
Happened at Matts off road garage as well. TomTom just left to make his own channel. Their previous employees also teamed up to make their own channel.
That’s kind of always been the case since MORR started though. If anything it’s a compliment that they incubate new creators. With very rare exception, all the people who left Matt’s Offroad are still on very friendly terms with MORR.
I would agree with Isaac, it's more incubating new creators who just want to go in their own direction. Tom wanted to do more fabrication and building than recoveries. Could say the same about Matt's son who started his own channel.
TomTom left on good terms. His son Rudy was fired for something, but (he's Matt's son) supported and got a shoutout. Trevor/etc on the Misadventures channel, not so much. And if you look at their numbers, none of them seem profitable. They weren't quite the celebrities, and they probably jumped ship too soon. Should've held their nose to the grindstone more. At the end of the day, they weren't really doing much to create content, the core is Matt and recoveries. Whereas these other channels Doug's talking about just have hired actors and comedians to host, and write... and at that point... what even is the corporation? It's just filming and editing. Well, you can hire editors and cameramen, meanwhile the talent can support themselves.
I think Matt brings these people in to Kickstart other channels. He doesn't care, or want to be some giant controlling influencer. A rising tide lifts all boats, he doesn't need to be the only boat out fishing. He really helped Fab Rats and Robby Layton get started as well and they have spun off others. All of them are really good.
Some of the big time independent CZcamsrs have faced burn out too, witness the number of "I'm quitting CZcams" videos out there. The constant stress about trying to stay relevant and maintaining upload cycle leads to burn out. If the big Channels start paying their hosts more it could be incentive to stay and just host and not worry about editing and all the B.S.
Actually, that’s capitalistic. Very, VERY few people just go out and start a business as their first job. The most successful people learn from their employment, then as soon as you’re able to they take their experience and start their own business.
@@debbieblanco3088 WHat is capitalistic about the workers leaving the employers to start their own competing business?!?! "Seize the means of production" is the definining slogan of Marx! Who do you think the means are being seized from?!?!?!
@@steveobarnesThis is an extremely simplistic view of economics. Remove the emotion and understand the premise of the idea. In an economic system the means of production are defined by how they’re controlled, not who controls them. Employees striking out on their own is seizing production for their own ends and is at the heart of a well run free market. Slogans are just that, slogans not explanations.
He is not co-owner, he is an employee but has some shares of the company and he is chief video content. I saw an interview where mat Watson said that. Check out. 😊
Not co-owner, but has shares, so is making money from the business in dividends as well as a cut of the YT stuff. I think the man is quite wealthy at this point, his coat alone is about £3000!
And Watson has his own fairly successful channel covering more of his personal motoring stuff, using many of the carwow links, and probably happy enough to let carwow organise the complicated videos like the drag races and big reviews.
Those videos get the most views. Something like Ginetta G4 or Lotus Carlton is interesting but very few are going to click the video compared to Lambo Über-megaVeloce 1500 limited that has production run of 12 Channels that focus on such cars are tiny despite their high quality content
Big Time is a fantastic example of this. They're almost at 2 million subs in a couple of weeks. They're also doing what Donut was originally doing. More power to them. Those 2 guys were my favorite on Donut.
The capital outlay upfront to start so many of these projects is a prohibitive factor. Reviewing car isn't. Doing builds and prospective content is much more expensive. Also one things Doug didn't mention, that you aren't just working for yourself, you're playing by googles rules... It changes algorithm, it wants to see shorts, you need to follow suit. That level of unknown that your business model is predicated on an software engineers ability to program you out intentionally or not is concerning.
CZcams as a whole finally seems to be turning $hitty. Every video is just 10-15 minutes of telling you what the video is about, an ad, 1-2 minutes of actual content, another ad, a summary at the end and then patreon/subscribing/liking begging.
Because in CZcams everything goes to where it actually always has been, youtubers. A channel owned by a 'company' or investors that doesn't understand the youtube business won't last, it's the simple youtube creators that if they don't make mistakes or can still maintain a viewers base are the ones that will have success in this platform. Everything else that feels forced, sketchy, or commercial, won't go further in time.
If you buy something because it’s successful and then immediately decide to change the things that made it succeed you deserve to fail. It sounds dumb, but the investors are so narcissistic they believe their ideas can improve something that they had no part in building.
The same thing happened to Buzzfeed stars over the last two years, they all left and started their own channels. It's not just automotive CZcams, it's logic. Well done Doug.
well at least the rich achieved something in life before that person dies. his kids will probably inherit the fortunes and pass on to the next generation. cycle of life.
Thanks for continuing updates I'd rather trade the crypto market as it's more profitable. I make a good amount of money per week even though I barely trade myself.
My girl and I were randomly on a tour of Sconset (sp?) in Nantucket and he casually mentioned you lived there. I was floored, been watching your vids for years
Running your own youtube channel can be time straining. It's why a lot of creators join teams to help with production. But people always forget youtube isn't about crazy production quality its about you hince the name youtube. Sticking to yourself and creating whatever interest you will create a following
This hits the nail on the head. None of the creators have (publicly) said they got mistreated. And honestly turnover is still pretty low on these channels compared to normal employee turnover in the normal job market. In economics there is a concept called "dis-economies of scale". Certain industries it does not make sense to run an expensive corporate behemoth when barriers to entry are low.
crazy, you named the three channels that are breaking up and that happened to be the three i never watched. cleetus, mcm and hoovie are really the only ones i watch.
From a viewer perspective : all the cars and trucks have been covered. Classic, nostalgia, normal, expensive, and hyper. I loved watching all of it across various channels but the genre itself has been chronicled completely. I don’t know what channels could cover that’s new or hasn’t been done already. Car CZcams has hit max XP
In the entertainment space (especially automotive entertainment), audiences often enjoy the hosts/creators more than the content. Case in point…Top Gear. For some reason, corporate executives don’t understand this.
Na they were always bought out one way or another. See when scotto was on the smoking tire. They had a significant investor even before ken died. Unfortunately the channel went when he passed. Just sad all around.
Hoonigan's problem was two-fold: to have the kind of race team Ken wanted to have was going to require sponsors and/ or investors, and eventually the on-air talent was going to grow up and out of the kind of antics that the crew was known for. (for example, the move from Long Beach to Compton for parking lot stunting because the LB shop is next to an elementary school). To do shows like This VS That require a place with room and neighbors who can put up with the noise for a while, and that's gonna require money to rent and get the production there. Then Ken died. With him gone, Scotto didn't have the leverage to dictate the creative side to the corporate sponsors anymore. Some guys like Dan and Kikawa had gotten tired of the corporate bs and left to do stuff they were interested in, Hert decided he wanted to be around for his kids more. But mostly it was Ken's death that killed Hoonigan.
This biggest issue is its more than just a creator. I run a tiny channel (what I am posting as) and I film, star, edit, publish, and market... and its basically impossible with a full time job and you have to have huge following to make it enough money for it to be full time. So in reality, these people need to set up a film company with camera people, sound people, editors, crew, etc etc and that takes capital - if they start making crap content on their own they will shed their audience pretty quick so its a huge risk and big jump and hike in workload, and I think thats why those who stay stay.
The way Doug says making $100,000 a year to just talk about and enjoying cars while letting a company take all the responsibility like it's a bad thing. Nothing but greed, six figures is nothing to sneeze at and letting the company take all of the risk? They deserve the millions. People need to be grateful for the easy cushy jobs they have!
@@1970DAH I imagine it'd be very expensive to solo produce the type of content he excels in. But imo he's such a draw that he should command more than just a salary. I hope he has an equity agreement with hagerty.
@@wannabegamer170 Henry Catchpole is another one who works for Hagerty these days and has been all around with many different employers. Frankly, he should just go freelance and set up on his own.
@@wannabegamer170 Who knows what "just a salary" looks like. Pro athletes get tens of millions in "just" salary. I am sure he can negotiate his salary when contracts expire. If the offer is low, he can go elsewhere. And we also don't know if there is profit-sharing or performance bonuses.
What happened at donut that Doug didn’t mention was this. I think it was 3 guys who started that business and grew it, sold it and got a big payday. The on camera talent like James saw that it may have been the straw that broke the camels back.
Except Kennan has essentially no following of his own, and probably nobody would watch his videos if he wasn't riding Doug's coat-tails. He also has all the charisma of a hat rack, so I'm not sure one would call him "talent".
I’m a CZcamsr creator and working for myself in car detailing and creating car shows for my channel. I’ve quit my job as I have passion for cars and want to invest my own CZcams channel. I don’t think I’ll let any company to take over my creativity and give me a small amount of revenue.
Some people just don't feel comfortable working on the whole thing which is why they rather stay under the umbrella of a corporation. They may have the skill and passion to be in front of the camera, to write scripts or even have creative discussions, but they may feel awful managing sponsorship deals, social media accounts, schedules, cameras, editing and everything else behind the cameras.
I remember when we made channels just to post racing, there was no monetization, we were just finding ways to get stuff online. Streetfire died, CZcams became THE place for car stuff. Hell, I remember when we had to upload to actual servers, and you had to actually download the videos to your computer on dial up.
James and Thomas better not get any ideas 🔪
James and Thomas seem fine, it’s those Extra Throttle House guys to keep an eye on 👀
@@Joey.Alford Definitely; there's something off-kilter about those two
Why was it so hilarious for me? 😂
I’d worry about Karston tbh, it’s over for TH if he started a channel that’s just him launching cars with extreme focus
TH comment on Doug's post makes me feel like we're a family😊
Carwow will literally fail if Matt Watson quits.
100%
Exactly. I stopped watching Carbuyer since he left for Carwow.
Judging by what he drives, I'm thinking they're paying him pretty well 😂
Plus he has his own CZcams channel that’s doing pretty good too.
I actually find the guy insufferable and annoying, but that might just be me. carwow is a channel I avoid precisely because I don't like the presenter much.
must migrate to locomotive youtube
Get on board bb
or the pop-up up-and-down headlight community.
I hear locomotive CZcams is on the rise but the algorithm is holding it back
I once caught a Premiere for a new video on a train channel here and the LiveChat was crazy.. people really get into it
🚂 Train Gang 🚂
Nothing quite like owning your own car channel with one of your best friends from highschool ☺️
Can you guys do a video on huffing exhaust fumes? Would love to see a review on what cars have the best fumes.
@@jeremyickes5699exhaust fumes Vs brake cleaner
Until that best friend starts his own channel and you start wondering if you even need him
@@siva47931 that doesn't sound very best friend
Thank you very cool!
I am one of the people you're talking about (started and left Hoonigan) and feel like you are mostly right but also overlooking a few major items. Namely, often times, the people you see on camera only did a select portion of what it takes to make a successful channel so there is a lot of security on just showing up and being "talent". Big Time is the perfect example of departing while on top, having the main brand promote the new brand, and coming out with the same quality content the viewers expected on from Donut. On my side, Hoonigan was on a decline (due to all the corp crap) and they didn't help myself or Hert promote our new ventures. As a solo creator the ad revenue is no where near what I made for a salary. If you can't figure out sponsorships, ads and drive the viewers to somewhere else to make money it is quickly a lot of effort for a very low return. I'm sticking to the low overhead route but even for channels like Big Time, they are 7 people so you need to make a lot of money to cover the expenses.
How the heck are you not one of the top comments? Thanks for the further insight as someone living the premise of this video.
loving your solo venture. keep the vids coming!! just don't twin turbo the 360, and put a wild wrap on it! lol
Adding to this: When you go from whats called an individual contributor type role to someone who is responsible for everything, its not as easy a transition as you think. Doug, you've been in that headspace since you started, and are used to what it means. Not everyone is okay with that level of responsibility, or can physically handle it. Like, I can handle a 10-20 person rush single handedly at my small business, but I see how my team and managers struggle with it. Then on top of that, since you are responsible for everything, that means you need to learn time management, maybe what these folks want is to just be responsible for that one niche and not worry about taxes or cashflow.
Chase that brass ring bro, you're great and I'm rooting for you!
Well said Vin. Hoping it works out for you, but Doug sees low barrier for entry and doesn't realize oversaturation, algorithm issues, and that youtube ad revenue is trash. It's not a simple thing to venture out on your own!
Next week Doug demuro: why I sold my channel
For 1 million dollars
Lol
Yeah, I was waiting to hear that perspective compared the the trend he rightfully described.
@@diegohorton869Doug’s channel is worth far more than $1 million. Plus he got big cash (millions) for his car auction company when he sold a portion of it…
Needles to say he does not need the money and seems like he has having a blast these days. He is not going anywhere anytime soon…
@@diegohorton869more than that he would want
A lot of what you've said here is spot on. And of course they get to be in charge of their own destiny a bit more, while also earning more money.
Sadly, it appears we are the grandpas of CZcams, but happily been independent the whole time,. We started filming in 2007 and uploaded our first 'How To Pimp Your Car for $500' episode in January 2008 so I guess that makes us the old, grey nomads of the CZcams-sphere.
You guys and MCM are absolute legends. Worthy patriarchs of Aussie Car YT.... Besides you only play old men on those commercials... You guys are hardly grandpas...
A lot of other channels either do one thing more extreme than the other, then flopping.
Or those that get corpo'ed, and instantly stales.
Then MCM. Yeah maybe not the most extreme builds tubular 2000hp internet slay stuff, but almost all of your builds are more sensible, reliable street cars built with ease of maintenance in mind, and not too much custom CNC'd parts strewn all across like confetti.
What's the point of having a cool car if it isn't street legal & daily'able?
That's a lost art these days with all the 1200-2000hp CNC stuff, when the 100-600hp stuff is what people most often tune back into.
You're not just the grandpa's of the YT Car scene, you're also the most sensible and relatable.
The first CZcamsrs to clean headlights with urine
*Wong Fu Productions has entered the chat*
*FreddieW has entered the chat*
*Michelle Phan has entered the chat*
*Mystery Guitar Man has entered the chat*
HAHAHAHAH and we love MCM for just that! You guys make great automotive content.
"you should own your means of production!" HELL YEAH I didn't have Karl DeMuro on my bingo card
Doug Demuro the kinda guy to seize the means of production
My thought exactly! Love to see it!
🦅🇺🇸🦅
comment of the year
Doug DeCommunist
Hanging in there for over 10 years, aint gonna go, aint gonna sell, sometimes it's tough being on your own, but the best boss you could have is still no one 😄
You are not on your own, there is Lia
Your audience is your boss
@@autogefuehl Appreciate all your quality output over the years
I'm sure Jason Camissa has a pretty favorable salary package. Hagerty is providing an incredible editing and production value to the CZcams platform. In my opinion they have raised the bar.
Yeah that didn't track as apples to apples to me either.
It’s because they don’t need the videos to be profitable since it’s just marketing for their insurance company.
@@gleb3841 They can even spin it to a write-off of somekind
Jason is the bomb his presentation is what is so entertaining
Doug Demuro spilling tea wasn't on my 2024 bingo card
Really? Gosh I had it on mine, it's right next to "Trump Gets Shot" and "Max Miller Gets a New Kitchen" 🤣
@@TheLorsx but did he only make this video after watching Alanis King’s video she made? Neither addressed her leaving C&B’s, and Doug essentially copied her video but with less substance. Her video was really good on the matter
@srb2834 I doubt doug is the type to copy someone else's video. I've never heard of her despite knowing everyone he is talking about.
She worked for Cars and Bids and did videos with Doug for a bit. Was a longtime writer for Jalopnik, and was just gone one day from this channel, and then started her own. I’m guessing Doug didn’t want to pay her more or something like that
Blame Katt
The matt watson point is slightly different as yes he does get paid a salary but hes also stated he has shares in carwow as part of his deal, therefore the incentive to leave isnt as high
Plus he’s pretty wealthy from CZcams I mean what car enthusiast wouldn’t want to.
Nothing indicates its anything but small shares. He still ends up getting loaner cars from manufacturers with relatively old cars for himself indicating hes not getting a big enough piece of that pie.
@@BeefIngothe had a share of a media company that gets millions of views every video. I’m sure he’s fairly compensated. Carwows been the same way for 10+ years. All these other companies and shows have changed significantly in the last years to meet the changing audience.
He has his own channel. The thing is, he is definitely able to run youtube channel, but he will not create his own carwow busines
@@bawhbeeuhveenee I've never seen a case where a host in his situation was paid near their value.
Automotive CZcams: Implodes.
Throttle House: 👀🤷♂️
Let's knock on wood. I need throttle house together
Throttle House : Lets go review The Beast in UK 😅
They are lucky. I think they are a small team.
Damn I hope they stick together I love them so much
@@forresttm IIRC they said in a podcast with Matt Farah that they only have two extre crew members for camera & audio. A four man team for what they do is insanely small, but it's awesome since everyone leaves with a bigger paycheck
James also departed from Donut.😅
Corpo touch really is a death touch in this case.
Moral of the story: James Pumphry is not Brad pitt
@@aldomandovani he's better!
@Sv3NSv3NsoN^^this. James always struck me as an actor who happens to like cars. He's somewhat knowledgeable about cars, but you can tell he doesn't fully understand how everything works the way the others do. James said a bunch of weird or inaccurate things over the years, more so than the other guys/gals. Still love him and I'm glad he's still with us.
Really? I can't tell the difference! Lol
I love James Pumphry, but I am not following him into a jungle...
James is the reason I stopped listening to Past Gas. All he did was crack jokes and never added anything to the show.
Careful. You're going to give Kennan and Filippo ideas. 😂
I wouldn’t be surprised if Doug is fine with them making their own channels. He’s doing them the favor of having them on the podcast
Not being mean to kennan but he dont have half the charisma of doug.
They have legitimate jobs of running cars and bids i dont think their main role is the YT channel
@@Faux_59 doug bringing them on C&B’s channel in front of the camera is the equivalent of a girl who’s a solid 6.5 surrounding herself with “friends” that are 3s and 4s to make herself look like an 8+! 😂
I wouldn’t worry about that. Personally, I would never watch Kennan or Philipo if they had their own channels. Not to be mean, but they would both put me to sleep
A significant percentage of people just aren't wired to go out "on their own". They are much more comfortable with minimizing risk and stress, being an employee and taking a regular paycheck. For them, it can absolutely be worth leaving a lot of money on the table if it means they can avoid that kind of stress and still earn enough to live very comfortably. Money isn't everything to everyone
Yeah, that's true, but if they're "creatives", they're eventually going to chafe under the corporate yoke anyway. It's easy enough to live the corporate grind if by "freak in the sheets" you mean you have god-tier Excel skills. It's not so easy when your talent is to create great content and the suits want you to do top 10 lists and sketchy reviews of Chinese EVs instead. Even if you're comfortably paid for it, you're probably still going to eventually walk away. The way Donut is going, they're going to be left with Jimmy and whoever that other dude was in their "crappy truck accessories" review video. Whatever, it wasn't a good video.
These are the same people too dull to have their own opinions. Not worth keeping around
money is most things to most people. assuming risk to make more is what's rare
"Money isn't everything" MFs when I take away all their money
Bingo. Some guys just want to drive & review the cars and have no appetite for the business side of things.
Doug makes it look easy and can act goofy, but damn is he smart. His insights are always spot on.
Start your own business instead of working for somebody else. That's been going on forever. I don't see the insight here. The problem is 90% of small businesses fail in the first few years.
@andyleo8418
Doug came from money too
@@paulie-Gualtieri. I don't think he comes from money. He has a lot now though. But work for yourself instead of somebody else is nothing new. Advantages and disadvantages to both.
@andyleo8418
Yes you are right there
also it must be said, not everyone becomes comfortable in front of a camera, or better yet not everyone seeks fame/celebrity.
I’m an independent and always have been. On the other side of this I have been approached by larger entities trying to absorb me any my channel into their business. Which is usually a sneaky attempt to gain rights to my likeness and everything I’ve already created. I honestly wonder how many independents this happens to.
Big fan of your channel!
@@Rocklyn1 Ditto.
Private equity. Unregulated growth at any cost is called cancer and is fatal.
You’re right, regulated growth is great, government agencies and POC DEI hires always know what’s best!
@@conor7154? Are you trying to be funny?
@@The_North0 I think he‘s just different opinion.
Especially when they fundamentally misunderstand what they're buying which is basically just a name and an archive.
@@conor7154 epic facebook boomer moment
What makes me laugh is these "investors" think they are buying a "brand" and people's loyalty is to the brand. They have no concept of quality, artistry, knowledge, character...all the things that make a channel worth watching. If the channel sucks, people stop watching, period. If the creatives leave, the channel is toast.
I'm kind of glad the parasitic investor class doesn't get this, and that youtube is still a place where (in theory) anybody with quality content can shine. It's a great equalizer. The minute the money people are involved, everything goes to hell.
I completely agree with you. What's also funny is that this platform is called CZcams - the "you" implies a creative individual is the one making the content, not (necessarily) a brand. And an investor can't buy the "you" so when the "you" leaves the channel, viewers follow the "you".
MBA stands for Mostly Bad Advice, and really, business degrees should be considered as worthless as a chiropractor or any other psuedo-science quack degree.
Late stage capitalism
@@stephenrubke8960 yep!
@@stephenrubke8960Yup. Rent-seeking becomes the paradigm.
@@stephenrubke8960
It’s been interesting being on the other side of this. I started my own channel and have been approached by a couple of larger media outlets about creating stuff for them and it was clear both times that they had nothing to offer me. It would be less freedom and less creativity for less money. The flip side is that you have to do everything if you’re doing it yourself. Videos require a lot of effort in writing, editing, video and audio, thumbnails, ideas, fabrication, etc, and you have to be at least kind of good at all of it. or at least hire and manage people that are. I could see someone like Cammisa being content where he is given that he doesn’t have to do everything to be a presenter on excellent videos.
There is a future where I would work for a larger production company as a member of a larger team, making less money than I do now for the same amount of work. It would be nice to work with a group of people making something great and focus on the things that I’m good at and enjoy. But the chances of that company existing as a subsidiary of a larger profit-driven company is basically zero. These companies being bought up by investors means that the primary goal will always be making money. Whereas a lot of independent CZcamsrs want to make good videos, and hopefully make some money in the process. I think that makes a huge difference in the quality of the videos and the quality of life when making the videos.
Semi-rhetorical question: Do you think that you would create that kind of company?
It's a flawed question though, because creating that kind of company would likely mean more work and less enjoyable work for you.
Matt you’re a little over qualified for CZcamsr car guy in fairness 🤪.
But definitely do a collaboration build at some point maybe bracket building competition to see if good enough can be quicker than a BOM rabbit hole 👌🏻
@@robzyb The business side of running a CZcams channel is my least favorite part.
It's so great to see you create a unique voice and a quirkly presence doing it all yourself, keep it up!
Matt. You’re the best. Love your content.
It’s the classic vulture capital playbook: sweep in and purchase something that someone else built, degrade the product, raise prices and/or stuff in more adverts, and make as much money as possible before the audience gets tired and leaves.
Then, once the business is sucked dry, move on and find the next one to prey upon.
Yep. Along with cutting costs and firing people to line investor’s pockets. Vulture capitalism affects basically every industry, but it’s way more prevalent on youtube than you’d think.
MBAs have been a disaster for the economy.
Confirmation bias. There are a lot of examples of brands that get saved by PE. See Target or Krispy Kreme. We only hear about the failures.
Not disagreeing with your fundamental point at all, but the vulture capitalists don't just walk through the gates and own the place... Investors PAY somebody for the privilege of ultimately running the firm into the ground or over-optimizing or sucking the creativity/ingenuity out. Assuming the firm is doing well, the founders/original owners get to decide to sell and ultimately get rich (hopefully). Nobody is mad at them, right?
I think it's the managerial culture and elitism/arrogance of the ownership/upper mgmt folks that think they don't have to continue aligning their incentives with those of creators (or just general employees in other industries). Eventually the focus becomes on extracting maximum value and minimizing cost rather than doing that in a way which doesn't compromise the long term growth/virility of the company that made it worthwhile in the first place. This just shows the lack of appreciation for what makes a company great by most (not all) investors.
@@termiterasin MBA's? Can you explain?
My observation as someone who's enjoyed car youtube for the past 15 or so years is that production value and the cost of production continues to rise. Private equity is an obvious way for channels to get an infusion of cash to increase their production value but once they do that, the creatives are no longer in charge. Someone with a huge following is not just able to leave and start their own channel but freeing themselves from the restrictions of a company means the creative is once again in charge. I'm not surprised that we are seeing larger channels break up or fall down. I'm with Doug here. Watching people retake control of the creative process and seeing the space be more innovative is truly fantastic for fans.
Puddings Fab Shop, Vice Grip Garage, Pole Barn Garage, and Junkyard Digs. That’s my go to channels. There are also many more I am sure.
I'm in an entirely different industry, but I was essentially at a donut for Real Estate. I left, and now have my own brand. My clients are now charged less, and I make 3x more per sale. It's scary, but my god it was worth it. Start with the biggest. Learn from the best. Move on.
@@jahnemann So you outbid regular working class people who want to buy a house?
@@earthquake69 for all you know, they could be a realtor.
@@earthquake69 no, im the person helping the working class people buy a house. I was giving up over 85% of my commissions to my real estate company.
@@jahnemann If you never sold a house for investment-property purposes, then props to you
Making youtube videos is easy. Making good youtube videos is not very easy. But having an interesting and welcoming personality with a baked in following puts eyeballs on those new videos. And yet you still you still need well edited well written well produced videos to continue that viewership. It's not a guarantee, but when you fire on all cylinders like BigTime it's a perfect storm.
I was not expecting TTC here lmaoo... and you're right, I watch your videos for the production quality and the humor and most of the time I have zero need for any of those tools being tested. 😂
I think you nailed it (or torqued it) is a mix of personality and quality what I follow. When I say quality is not perfection but enough TLC for a good product
Or in my case, low cost production, poor humor, shoddy car repair and a little bit of luck 🤷🏼♂
@@SouthMainAuto Eric has to share the limelight with the main character on the channel: rust. But you make an amazing team!
@@SouthMainAuto look whatever it takes to make the viewers happy… and nothing better that shoddy repairs since it make me look like I know what I’m doing
I think Kenan and Filipo should ditch Cars & Bids and start “Bids & Cars” to sink Doug
That would fail in a matter of weeks. Lol
@@martylee9035 I would venture to guess days, not weeks lol
That’s why I started my own CZcams channel. The barrier to entry was higher when I started but it’s gotten easier for new creators! Big up to Doug for looking out for other creators! 👍🏾
Spoiler alert: Brad Pitt owns a production company, he literally does his own movies)
What Doug meant was Brad Pitt doing a movie all by himself
@@Charlie-Charlot which is still not possible on modern CZcams. To have minimal required quality CZcamsr need at least outsourced editor and cover designer.
@@makb_the_striker but the point is making your own film by yourself is immensely more difficult than making a CZcams video by yourself.
Lego Masters is his. He’s even done a cameo voice over.
My favorite thing about CZcams right now is it has been filling my algorithm with really small, newer automotive channels.
Regarding what you talk about here…it’s truly unfortunate when profits and big business destroy channels that started off so good.
Hot take: The youtube algo is better than it has ever been. Channels with 10k or less subs can get millions of views if their content is good enough.
Jim I hope it's shown you my channel too!
@@termiterasinOr if their narrative fits what Google desires.
This I can attest to… I just started my CZcams channel last year and though my channel is still in it’s infancy, one of my first videos did 70k views in just 1-3 months of uploading it. And so far I can average out 1500 or so views per video I put out.
I’m glad that the algorithm is putting small CZcamsrs like me on the home page. Helps get our content out there that tends to be pretty decent but gets overshadowed by much larger channels.
Doug DeMuro Unplugged and Unhinged.
Just unplugged.
😂😂😂
In late April 2024, the FTC announced a ban on non-compete agreements. I bet this is happening now because these people were subject to those agreements.
I had the same thought
Same
Would that apply to you existing contracts also?
@@tyxium yes
@@sheetsda this is exactly it. Shout out to Biden for getting it done! Helped create new content in the car scene and helped me go to a competitor and make more money 💰
The state of it is in disarray. CZcams has been doing quite bad at it's promise to "support small creators". As well, in CZcams's defense, the space is TOTALLY saturated. When our channel goes to the car shows in south Florida, it's apparent along the literal side lines, that there's about 50-100 Gen Z creators filming the exact same content. It's extremely frustrating to put a lot of editing into a video, and then see that CZcams has "shut the video off". What I mean by that, is that the views flatline, which is obvious when you see the impressions have flat line, that CZcams has algorithmically decided to stop showing the video to people.
Probably because no one wants to watch boring videos of cars parked at a car show. People like watching videos of cars being DRIVEN.
@@IndependenceCityMotoring Being driven, being restored, being hopped up, being painted, and more. Filming parked cars is lazy af.
@@TheBreaded and yet there are channels in that niche that do over 100k views in 48 hours. I do them sometimes because I'm there and just showing people what's out there in different areas of the world other than where they live. I focus on budget builds and anything gearhead related and sometimes that's car shows. But I'm small and just doing what I can with what I got. Videoing my journey as normal everyday Motorhead.
I think production value is a huge factor. Hagerty goes way over the top for Camissa’s videos. Take that production level away and I don’t think he’d have the pull he has at hagerty.
I have a feeling the big channels will update their contracts to get exclusivity agreements with talent
@@ftwtech I was just wondering about that!
If you’re good enough you would never sign something like that and if you’re not the channel won’t ever make money
In come the non compete in the same space clauses!
Such agreements are unenforceable in California.
@@stuckinarabbithole aren’t they about to be outlawed in the US?
Doug the kind of guy who hangs licence plates above his bed.
You noticed it too huh?
specifically Nantucket vanity plates
He definetely that type of guy
@@TZYBThere once was a man from Nantucket...
The bed it self must be a Carrera GT replica
I'd love be a fly on the wall for a Donut business meeting, I don't think I've ever seen a channel's numbers crater this hard.
WTF1 probably detonated their business faster about 8 months ago.
Suits weren’t willing to play ball with Matt & Tommy the main presenters people liked, they said screwit, started their own F1 channel, [*P1 w/ Matt & Tommy] and they’ve left WTF1 in the dust to the point where I don’t even believe wtf1 posts anymore. A million follower channel gone overnight
following up Bigtime’s first video with a 20 minute ad for a chinese car destroyed what little credibility they had left
@@srb2834 Yeah WTF1 went from a channel that got 200-300k views on average to struggling to get more than 5k views a video. Quite shocking!
Holy moly, I haven’t been subscribed in a while, pretty much a 50-75% drop in views.
Right! And all they had to do was not be such greedy fucks and give the talent some ownership share. That way there's incentive, and they can grow with the channel. Unfortunately, a lot of people who run companies are quite narrow minded.
Biggest thing for me would be if you, Doug, continued doing more outdoor videos rather than in the dingy dark echoey garage/basement.
Your friend Hoovie is trying to get sympathy as a multi millionaire, Freddy is spending a god awful amount of money on restoring a million dollar car, Cleatus does nothing relatable anymore it's all outrageous stunts now. All of these channels used to be relatable and fun to watch.
As a full time youtuber I feel that. Everybody talks about work, but I start spouting about analytics and video performance and the room clears lol
Doug is making some great points here as always. Working for someone else may score points in the “daily score”, but it’ll never be as rewarding as the “weekend score” of going on your own path.
I have no interest in that and millions of others agree. I rather work for someone make a good salary and go home and do what I want that is not work related. I literally work 20hrs/week and make over 140k for IT consulting. I am in my early 50s and I value free time over money. Workaholics will not understand this.
@@Lex-Rex IT consulting sounds like going out on your own. You’re effectively a solo business owner. Nice work enjoy 👍
I think mat watson said in a interview he owns a large part of carwow .
Yeah I think he owns a portion of it, though I don't think it's very big. Worth noting Mat has his own channel, but while it gets decent views, Carwow gets massively more
He also must have an insane salary as he does (or did) have a GT3 RS
@@CB21001 in recent years Carwow has gotten a lot more commercial. They used to spend a lot of time talking about actual useful stuff that you’d think about when buying a car but these days they’re just obsessed with clickbait titles, skipping out on the infotainment and practicality review sections almost entirely, posting drag races (fun but not exactly useful) and a boatload of infomercials for Chinese cars.
@@CB21001 Yeah he seems smart, I think he knows what he's doing
He certainly did not say large.
It’s like moving up in a company. Some people don’t want to move up because all though the pay is great, sometimes the responsibility isn’t worth it
History repeating itself...
60 years ago, in the then relatively new industry of rock n roll, a group of musicians questioned why they were doing all the creative work but only getting a fraction of the returns.
So the Beatles created their own record label.
Led Zeppelin took control of their own live tours.
That's when they really, finally, saw the financial returns they were due.
@@stuartbenson4195 hmm, zep got ripped by manager
The Grandfather of the car CZcamsr is Saabkyle
And his son is Zack from shooting cars
I agree
I agree. Saabkyle pioneered the "viewer experience the car" style of video
Is that spoilt brat vehiclevirgins still going?
Agreed! Why he isn't more popular is a bit of a mystery to me.
On the British CZcams side, The Late Brake Show now has 660K subscribers, being a one person show, while the Fully Charged Show has 1.07M subscribers and a very big team. Johnny Smith is an amazing creator and it would have been a shame for him not to have his own channel. His barn find series are truly wonderful.
👏👏👏👍🏻
British side as Carwow and that's one of *the best* out there.
Glad that he's getting there, he "fully" deserves it and is frankly better than all of FC combined. I don't understand how "oh we're so independent" Fully Charged was able these amazing productions from so early on. HOW? Did Bobby get a tremendous investment to burn through? So so so so many hours hiring really good video production people...
Matt from car wow is the absolute king of UK auto channel, you just left out literally the most popular one
@@fwd79exactly he literally left out the most popular creator
*Brad Pitt has been a movie producer since 2001. His studio is Plan B Entertainment.* 😂
@@MisterMonsieur yeah, it’s a hilarious example. That’s *exactly* what Brad Pitt did.
Yep I kept thinking about his Plan B Studio each time Doug mentioned that example lol
I got his point on Brad, as Brad needed tens to hundreds of millions in funding to do it. Not a smart phone/camera/laptop, an email address and an idea. Which is all you need to start a YT channel.
Thank you for upgrading your mic setup - doesn’t go unnoticed!
This is classic capitalism. The owner of the channel doesn’t pay their employees what they deserve so the employees, who are the backbone of the channel, quit. Just pay people what they deserve!
I think you’re mostly correct. I think Zack and Jeremiah probably had that in the back of their minds for a long time. Then you have talented guys like them doing their 5th “we bought car products from Temu” videos like… maaaybe we should
@@TechTimeWithEric I'd say Zack and Jeremiah had a bit of a different reason for starting Big Time tho. They weren't doing what they were hired to do, and as the VC that funds everything started exerting more pressure to copy other channel formats, do stupid "cheap" quiz episodes and paid sponsorships for cars nobody wants, the guys said enough was enough. It's not just them tho, look how many people followed them to their new channel. Donut's product is stale and boring and entirely enshitified. Big Time is back to the basics - building cool f'in cars and getting your knuckles scraped and dirty.
@@SoCalGuitarist in their video explaing why they left, they mentioned something about the original owners planning on offering them equity in Donut, and losing that opportunity when the channel sold. They all but outright said that a big part of leaving was financial.
I agree on Jason Cammisa; I wonder why he hasn’t left Hagerty. There’s a huge following of him on there.
@@maxjones5705 Jason has stated many times that the content he excels at, which are longer, high quality films with many cars and environments requires large backing that he couldn’t provide on his own, thus he needs a patron like Hagerty to produce it.
@elishavargas5316 There's also the possibility that Jason is part of the population that just isn't wired to be an entrepreneur, that he might be someone who will sacrifice money for the security of a regular paycheck and would rather someone else be "the boss". For a lot of people, if you can be free of that stress and still make a very comfortable living, they will leave a lot of money on the table.
He has an essential open checkbook from Hagerty. Why would he leave? Hagerty’s business model is good for the creators. They aren’t focused on views. They want to sell insurance policies so the revenue from the videos is an added bonus.
If he merely gets a cut of revenue, he is probably in the perfect job.
@@maxjones5705 he prolly got lots of stock it’s publicly traded
I’m not a car CZcamsr, I’m a software engineer. Doug has inspired me today to do something
Good luck
Really high barrier though
I am one too. I am going to write the next ChatGPT tonight. /s
@@ArekDev write waifu gpt
@@RomanticPopPunk Sadly that would likely make the inventor a billionaire.
I get the advantage to doing it on your own. That's how I run my businesses. I've had a CZcams channel and made some money doing it. You're kidding yourself if you think having your own channel puts you in significantly more control. By striking out on your own you're just cutting out a middle man, but you're still not the boss. The algorithm is. You will always be at the mercy of a platform that you do not control whether you're getting the AdShare rev or a paycheck. The benefit to working for a company is that you still get to build your brand, but you don't take the risk. You continually get paid to build your brand. Sure, you may never fully cash in. But I think a lot of folks are OK with that, and even if I'm not one of them, there's no shame. Just a different strategy.
Doug reminds me the HockeyGuy Shannon. Barebones style. No shouting, screaming, no BS. Just honest old fashioned content.
Saabkyle is the OG in this space he just was wayy before his time and burnt out before the big money hit
Indeed he is. I was always curious why SaabKyle videos don't pop up on my recommendations. SaabKyle been doing it since 2008? I could be wrong.
Yep he was huge back in the day and then his viewership completely fizzled out
@@dreammatch2000 yelp
@@jacobyo99 yep i think he tried to make a few newer videos after yt really blew up but nothing really stuck
@@TruckinRoundTv he still makes videos regularly. Very low viewership. Good thing he’s also a pharmacist!
Vin Tra is a great example of this. Never heard of the guy until he left Hoonigan and started creating fantastic content on his own.
@@thedukeofwales he was a main character on there.
@@MumrikDK I didn't watch Hoonigan.
He posted a reply in this thread in case you missed it
@@Icoach4free I see it now. Thanks for letting me know.
Doug's the type of guy that invites others to participate instead of kicking them off the playground
I think a huge part is also the FTC ban on nocompetes.
I’m glad Doug called some of those people out that said they’re leaving b/c of “creative differences” when it’s really about the money.
I didn't even realize that they are not the owners until recently. Nobody is watching because of the name of the channel or the company. Whenever the creator goes, the audience goes. No one cares about the companies.
Even on TV, when the trio left top gear and started grand tour, nobody stayed to watch topgear.
Absolutely, everyone signed up to prime to watch the grand tour
Top Gear died when the Trio left.
@MahadShahzad08 wait you mean you didn't like Joey?
@@Scottwilld Honestly I haven't seen any new top gears since the trio left. I just followed them on Grand Tour.
@@MahadShahzad08 they are not very good
Happened at Matts off road garage as well. TomTom just left to make his own channel. Their previous employees also teamed up to make their own channel.
That’s kind of always been the case since MORR started though. If anything it’s a compliment that they incubate new creators.
With very rare exception, all the people who left Matt’s Offroad are still on very friendly terms with MORR.
I would agree with Isaac, it's more incubating new creators who just want to go in their own direction. Tom wanted to do more fabrication and building than recoveries. Could say the same about Matt's son who started his own channel.
TomTom left on good terms. His son Rudy was fired for something, but (he's Matt's son) supported and got a shoutout. Trevor/etc on the Misadventures channel, not so much. And if you look at their numbers, none of them seem profitable. They weren't quite the celebrities, and they probably jumped ship too soon. Should've held their nose to the grindstone more. At the end of the day, they weren't really doing much to create content, the core is Matt and recoveries. Whereas these other channels Doug's talking about just have hired actors and comedians to host, and write... and at that point... what even is the corporation? It's just filming and editing. Well, you can hire editors and cameramen, meanwhile the talent can support themselves.
I think Matt brings these people in to Kickstart other channels. He doesn't care, or want to be some giant controlling influencer. A rising tide lifts all boats, he doesn't need to be the only boat out fishing. He really helped Fab Rats and Robby Layton get started as well and they have spun off others. All of them are really good.
doug: "what's the best way to let everyone know I'm not filming from home". empty wall behind doug:
Thank you Doug! As fairly small automotive youtuber I feel the grind, especially doing it part time. But I get excited every time a new car comes out.
Some of the big time independent CZcamsrs have faced burn out too, witness the number of "I'm quitting CZcams" videos out there. The constant stress about trying to stay relevant and maintaining upload cycle leads to burn out. If the big Channels start paying their hosts more it could be incentive to stay and just host and not worry about editing and all the B.S.
"own the means of production" ?! COMRADE DOUG?!
Actually, that’s capitalistic. Very, VERY few people just go out and start a business as their first job. The most successful people learn from their employment, then as soon as you’re able to they take their experience and start their own business.
@@debbieblanco3088 WHat is capitalistic about the workers leaving the employers to start their own competing business?!?! "Seize the means of production" is the definining slogan of Marx! Who do you think the means are being seized from?!?!?!
@@steveobarnes Yeah, it's called a free market. And yes, crony capitalism is a thing as well.
He's always been a capitalist lol, but he just loves the fair and idealistic capitalism that California has provided him.
@@steveobarnesThis is an extremely simplistic view of economics. Remove the emotion and understand the premise of the idea. In an economic system the means of production are defined by how they’re controlled, not who controls them. Employees striking out on their own is seizing production for their own ends and is at the heart of a well run free market. Slogans are just that, slogans not explanations.
I think Matt Watson is at least co-owner of carwow. I remember watching him at other channel, car buyer or something, like 10 years ago.
He is not co-owner, he is an employee but has some shares of the company and he is chief video content.
I saw an interview where mat Watson said that. Check out. 😊
Not co-owner, but has shares, so is making money from the business in dividends as well as a cut of the YT stuff. I think the man is quite wealthy at this point, his coat alone is about £3000!
And Watson has his own fairly successful channel covering more of his personal motoring stuff, using many of the carwow links, and probably happy enough to let carwow organise the complicated videos like the drag races and big reviews.
Mat has his own channel as well so he's getting 2 incomes at least
@@Marionn995 Aren't all shareholders co-owners?
Most of the cars people are reviewing no one can buy due to exclusivity, or due to high prices.
So? You do know all of these cars are just borrowed for press to review then and they have to give them back, don't you?
@@Bmontepeque11 we know that. It doesn't make the reviews any more useful.
Those videos get the most views. Something like Ginetta G4 or Lotus Carlton is interesting but very few are going to click the video compared to Lambo Über-megaVeloce 1500 limited that has production run of 12
Channels that focus on such cars are tiny despite their high quality content
That's why I like Ross Reviews. He does normal daily driven street cars in Australia, and shits himself in the faster ones, it's funny
Big Time is a fantastic example of this. They're almost at 2 million subs in a couple of weeks. They're also doing what Donut was originally doing. More power to them. Those 2 guys were my favorite on Donut.
Yeah, they're actually car guys, turning wrenches ..
The capital outlay upfront to start so many of these projects is a prohibitive factor. Reviewing car isn't. Doing builds and prospective content is much more expensive.
Also one things Doug didn't mention, that you aren't just working for yourself, you're playing by googles rules... It changes algorithm, it wants to see shorts, you need to follow suit. That level of unknown that your business model is predicated on an software engineers ability to program you out intentionally or not is concerning.
CZcams as a whole finally seems to be turning $hitty. Every video is just 10-15 minutes of telling you what the video is about, an ad, 1-2 minutes of actual content, another ad, a summary at the end and then patreon/subscribing/liking begging.
you forgot car raffles oh sorry I mean giveaways
Bingo
You also forgot about half the comments being invisible and the other comments are not from real accounts
Top comment right here
@@mrmikal11 don't forget buying subs and views, just like most things, miss the old days
Because in CZcams everything goes to where it actually always has been, youtubers. A channel owned by a 'company' or investors that doesn't understand the youtube business won't last, it's the simple youtube creators that if they don't make mistakes or can still maintain a viewers base are the ones that will have success in this platform. Everything else that feels forced, sketchy, or commercial, won't go further in time.
If you buy something because it’s successful and then immediately decide to change the things that made it succeed you deserve to fail. It sounds dumb, but the investors are so narcissistic they believe their ideas can improve something that they had no part in building.
The same thing happened to Buzzfeed stars over the last two years, they all left and started their own channels. It's not just automotive CZcams, it's logic. Well done Doug.
*No man was born rich that's why we have to do our best to achieve something in life. Before we get old.*
You are right we have to achieve something in this life so our children won't sofa it
well at least the rich achieved something in life before that person dies. his kids will probably inherit the fortunes and pass on to the next generation. cycle of life.
Thanks for continuing updates I'd rather trade the crypto market as it's more profitable. I make a good amount of money per week even though I barely trade myself.
Finding yourself a good broker is as same as finding a good thing, which you go less stress, you get just enough with so much little effort at things
No I don't trade on my own anymore, I always required help and assistance
My girl and I were randomly on a tour of Sconset (sp?) in Nantucket and he casually mentioned you lived there. I was floored, been watching your vids for years
Running your own youtube channel can be time straining. It's why a lot of creators join teams to help with production. But people always forget youtube isn't about crazy production quality its about you hince the name youtube. Sticking to yourself and creating whatever interest you will create a following
Uh-oh...
Fillippo and Kennan channels are coming soon?
Sounds like it!
This hits the nail on the head. None of the creators have (publicly) said they got mistreated. And honestly turnover is still pretty low on these channels compared to normal employee turnover in the normal job market.
In economics there is a concept called "dis-economies of scale". Certain industries it does not make sense to run an expensive corporate behemoth when barriers to entry are low.
Jayemm has explained this well before
Also Will from Grind Hard Plumbing, Oscar from B is for Build
crazy, you named the three channels that are breaking up and that happened to be the three i never watched. cleetus, mcm and hoovie are really the only ones i watch.
From a viewer perspective : all the cars and trucks have been covered. Classic, nostalgia, normal, expensive, and hyper.
I loved watching all of it across various channels but the genre itself has been chronicled completely.
I don’t know what channels could cover that’s new or hasn’t been done already. Car CZcams has hit max XP
agree
I agree too, I've found myself consuming LESS automotive content on CZcams recently ,because it just becomes repetitive after a while.
In the entertainment space (especially automotive entertainment), audiences often enjoy the hosts/creators more than the content. Case in point…Top Gear. For some reason, corporate executives don’t understand this.
Absolutely.
Hoonigan was such a waste to have been bought out and totally burned their brand online. Such a shame for a legacy company like that.
Na they were always bought out one way or another. See when scotto was on the smoking tire. They had a significant investor even before ken died. Unfortunately the channel went when he passed. Just sad all around.
Hoonigan's problem was two-fold: to have the kind of race team Ken wanted to have was going to require sponsors and/ or investors, and eventually the on-air talent was going to grow up and out of the kind of antics that the crew was known for. (for example, the move from Long Beach to Compton for parking lot stunting because the LB shop is next to an elementary school). To do shows like This VS That require a place with room and neighbors who can put up with the noise for a while, and that's gonna require money to rent and get the production there. Then Ken died. With him gone, Scotto didn't have the leverage to dictate the creative side to the corporate sponsors anymore. Some guys like Dan and Kikawa had gotten tired of the corporate bs and left to do stuff they were interested in, Hert decided he wanted to be around for his kids more. But mostly it was Ken's death that killed Hoonigan.
This biggest issue is its more than just a creator. I run a tiny channel (what I am posting as) and I film, star, edit, publish, and market... and its basically impossible with a full time job and you have to have huge following to make it enough money for it to be full time. So in reality, these people need to set up a film company with camera people, sound people, editors, crew, etc etc and that takes capital - if they start making crap content on their own they will shed their audience pretty quick so its a huge risk and big jump and hike in workload, and I think thats why those who stay stay.
The way Doug says making $100,000 a year to just talk about and enjoying cars while letting a company take all the responsibility like it's a bad thing.
Nothing but greed, six figures is nothing to sneeze at and letting the company take all of the risk? They deserve the millions.
People need to be grateful for the easy cushy jobs they have!
Matt Watson owns a share of Carwow and he also has his own CZcams Channel
Time for Filipo to make his own channel
Cammisa is an example of a person who should he a millionaire just based off talent alone.
There are insane levels of production value in the videos he makes for Hagerty. You have to wonder about the cost of some of those visual effects.
@@1970DAH I imagine it'd be very expensive to solo produce the type of content he excels in. But imo he's such a draw that he should command more than just a salary. I hope he has an equity agreement with hagerty.
He has a house in the Bay Area. He’s probably a millionaire already, at least on paper.
@@wannabegamer170 Henry Catchpole is another one who works for Hagerty these days and has been all around with many different employers. Frankly, he should just go freelance and set up on his own.
@@wannabegamer170 Who knows what "just a salary" looks like. Pro athletes get tens of millions in "just" salary. I am sure he can negotiate his salary when contracts expire. If the offer is low, he can go elsewhere. And we also don't know if there is profit-sharing or performance bonuses.
Couldn't agree more! Jobe and Jerry are way too talented to be working for someone else. Go Big Time!
What happened at donut that Doug didn’t mention was this. I think it was 3 guys who started that business and grew it, sold it and got a big payday. The on camera talent like James saw that it may have been the straw that broke the camels back.
Doug, do you have a race car bed? If not, can you start a crowd funding campaign to make you a custom race car bed?
Doug giving Kennan ideas on his exit ops
Giving Kennan head 😂
@@paulie-Gualtieri. 20 years in the can
@@TheOnlyNTRO
That's Uncle Philly
Except Kennan has essentially no following of his own, and probably nobody would watch his videos if he wasn't riding Doug's coat-tails. He also has all the charisma of a hat rack, so I'm not sure one would call him "talent".
Alanis has left the chat
she just abruptly disappeared off this channel what happened there?
The genre is oversaturated with duplicate content and underwhelming personalities
I’m a CZcamsr creator and working for myself in car detailing and creating car shows for my channel. I’ve quit my job as I have passion for cars and want to invest my own CZcams channel. I don’t think I’ll let any company to take over my creativity and give me a small amount of revenue.
As someone who owns 4 locomotives and 22 passenger cars.....im all in...locomotive youtube!
Rip to moredoug
Feel like he wanted to make a large statement with this so wouldn’t be fair to put it on the bonus channel 😊
@@trevorgreene9951 or maybe the bonus channel hasn’t existed in years
He probably just doesn't have the time or energy (esp. now that he's got kids) to operate a bonus channel for the comparatively few views it gets.
Some people just don't feel comfortable working on the whole thing which is why they rather stay under the umbrella of a corporation. They may have the skill and passion to be in front of the camera, to write scripts or even have creative discussions, but they may feel awful managing sponsorship deals, social media accounts, schedules, cameras, editing and everything else behind the cameras.
I remember when we made channels just to post racing, there was no monetization, we were just finding ways to get stuff online. Streetfire died, CZcams became THE place for car stuff. Hell, I remember when we had to upload to actual servers, and you had to actually download the videos to your computer on dial up.
Doug the kind of guy who sleeps in his sock.
Sock, singular?
@@quirksandfeatures3215
Pepper pig socks?
You like Doug so much, you created a profile with his picture and his three favourite words. Wow
das a big sock
Sauk City, Wisconsin Sock
If only.