Making the PERFECT* Slitting Saw Arbor || INHERITANCE MACHINING
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- If you want something done right, sometimes you have to do it yourself. In this project I’ll be engineering and machining an improved slitting saw arbor to replace the bargain barrel piece of junk I bought a while back. Which should be a pretty simple project honestly… but of course I’m incapable of keeping things simple. I’ll include a standard R8 taper making it compatible with my mill’s spindle. But the other end will be a little more interesting. It’s designed such that it can adapter to a wide range of slitting saw blades with different sized holes. Do I have blades with different sized holes? No… but I might one day. Anyway, this does present somewhat of a challenge to keep several assembled parts as concentric as possible. So some precision machining is in order. Including some turning on the mill, as well as my first foray into trepanning. Like I said… I’m incapable of keeping things simple.
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Thank you again to the Micrometer level Patreon members listed at the end of the video!
TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Buy Cheap, Buy Twice
2:47 Or Design Your Own
4:27 Not STRAIGHTforward
6:38 "R8" My Play on Words
8:46 By the Mill, For the Mill
10:06 Lathe 2.0
13:25 Watch Your Step
15:37 Trepuhning? TREEpanning? TrePANning!
18:14 Where There's One, There's Many
19:35 The Eentsy Weentsy Centering Boss Retaining Pin
20:23 Is it Actually Better?
FAQ
Drafting Equipment (affiliate links): amzn.to/3P0HvMe
A/V Equipment (affiliate links): amzn.to/3Pi45jB
Editing: Final Cut Pro X
Intro Song: Way Back Way Back When (Instrumental Version) - Gamma Skies
www.epidemicsound.com/track/S...\
• Making the PERFECT* Sl...
© 2023 Inheritance Machining, LLC. All Rights Reserved. - Věda a technologie
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The old saying needs amending.... "Buy Cheap, Buy Twice. Or just make your own!". Thanks for watching everyone! I've got something a little different in store for March 17th. See you then!
Buy once, Cry once. Outstanding work again. Look forward every week to these videos not only for your machining but your outstanding camera work and narration
I would assume the reason the surface finish went in the toilet when turning the centering boss is that your DOC was too low. In general you want a DOC to be equal to or higher than the corner radius of the insert or the insert will tend to deflect radially, producing chatter. For this very reason we who program CNC-lathes tend to finish narrow tolerance features with a finish pass in the order of 0.5-2mm for this size part
I'd also recommend you keep that trepanning tool you ground on hand as a general outside turning tool for plastics. The geometry you used with the chip breaking feature is awesome for plastics if you don't have PCD or MCD inserts on hand
Why does your comment say 10 days ago?!
And what kind of table is that? The one you make your blueprint on. Was it made special or are they made by a company?
Your videos are getting better by the day. Love your work!
I love your videos.
Thanks, man! I really appreciate it
@@InheritanceMachiningi can see the ThisOldTony influence in your editing and voiceovers
Literally everyone loves this channel.
@@TheGoldenTNTI've seen so many of my favorite CZcamsrs in his comments
@@gdude2775same. Even colin furze
So calming to watch him make parts with such precision. A person who loves what he does.
It is very satisfying and relaxing!
True
@@luke-guitarist 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Aynen
It's so good that I fall asleep if I'm in bed, I don't listen to audiobooks but I know that people would love him.
The new camera gantry seems to be working perfectly! Love the shot at 11:20
It's getting a lot of use, thats for sure. And by a lot, I mean all 😂
Was going to make the same comment. 🤘🏼🤘🏼
so much this!
@@InheritanceMachining What do you think the time savings has been?
It’s the shot at 20:48 for me. 😮💨
I just had to take a moment to express how much I've been enjoying watching your videos. Seeing you take on your grandfather's machine shop with such enthusiasm and passion is truly heartwarming. It's clear that you have a deep love for engineering and machining, and it's been a joy to watch you apply those skills to a hobby that means so much to you.
What I appreciate most about your videos is how you take us on a journey of discovery with you. We get to see firsthand how you navigate the challenges of working with unfamiliar tools and techniques, and how you approach problem-solving with such a positive attitude and willingness to learn. Your willingness to share your mistakes and show us how you correct them on the fly is a valuable lesson for anyone, regardless of their skill level.
Watching your channel has been a unique and truly wholesome experience. It's so refreshing to see someone take on a seemingly secondary skill and turn it into something so special. You've created a truly unique viewing experience that is both entertaining and educational.
Thank you for sharing your journey with us. It's such a pleasure to see someone succeed so exceptionally where others might give up or fail. I cannot stress enough how happy it makes me to see you living your passion and achieving such great things. Keep up the amazing work, and I look forward to seeing what you create next! Sincerely, just another Savage, TOT, Abom and Fireball Tool..........etc fan.
Thank you so much! I've been dreaming of the day I could get back into a shop and make things. I couldn't think of a better way of sharing the process of learning and relearning old skills than by showing everything from the ups and downs, to the experimentation and side projects. All made better by the support of kind folks like you. Thanks again!
Man that new camera gantry is amazing. The shots in this project feel so much more free! Great variety of angles now that you're not limited by tripod setups.
I was going camera crazy! 😂 Thanks!
@@InheritanceMachining Now I'm awaiting the inevitable day that you decide to go super-saiyan and add another camera + gantry into the mix to get 2x the coverage (ex, wide and close-up shot).
Your videos are some of the few I don't speed up. Thanks for sharing with us!
My feelings exactly.
yeap... normal speed with sound. Rare are the videos that fall into this realm. Here all of them.
Fr. his commentary is not boring at all and relevant to what he is doing always 👍
@@braxeton671 And no silly "milenial jokes" 🧐 we old people like information.🤠
@@EnricoMarangonJunior lol
I'm not going to lie, as a mold making apprentice, this man's workmanship is something I really hope to achieve at some point in my career lol
Welcome to the trade. All great Mold makers have terrific workmanship. It take time and patience.
Trepanning is also the term used for drilling a hole in someone's skull, either to relieve pressure in the brain pan or more commonly (historically) to let demons out. I'm glad that that kind of trepanning isn't your new favorite operation... Oh, and yes, people would actually survive having a hole drilled in their heads.
As an engineer I really enjoy watching your videos when I'm stressed, keep up with the good work!
Thanks, man!
"Nothing like a side project before you've really got started". The story of my life!!
My motto: "Nothing is easy". Great video.
Thanks!
I’m rewatching older videos… they don’t get old.
I was very impressed with your story and journey. My wife's grandfather was a welder and machinist and had a little shop in Clearwater Florida. It was jam packed with just about anything you could imagine. Most from WWII surplus. He taught me how to weld and a little about machining. Now I'm 71 and just bought a lofted garage 14 x 20 fully insulated and just put A/C in. I have a 13" South Bend and trying to figure out how to get a milling machine. As soon as I saw you sit down and draw I knew you were an engineer. I'm going to buy some shirts from your store. I hope you continue to grow and create projects; I need to buy some of your drawings as well. God Bless and thank you for sharing. Paul Greenlee
I love the "Buy Cheap, Buy Twice. Or just make your own!" motto, at the workshop there's always something to do and when there's spare time to do side projects you're just burnt out, I've always dreamed of making my own tools, Very nice work!.
11:33 that edge looked burnt already.
I hope your grandpa got to see your abilities, drafting, engineering manufacturing etc, before he passed.
Wholesome gets tossed around a lot online these days but it’s wholesome how you connect to him through putting these tools to use. Family matters so much and it’s a blessing to have good relationships like that.
Unfortunately he did not, but I like to think he's watching in on my doings. Thank you 🙏
The nice thing about precision is it keeps on giving.
When you now sharpen the slitting saw and get all it's teeth cutting you will be amazed at how good machining can really be.
If you can go from having 6 of the 36 teeth cutting to something more like 30 of the teeth cutting on the same diameter things get real smooth.
exactly the right timing for a friday afternoon
"that's a problem for future Brandon" wow I do the same thing, crazy how skilled our future selves are!
Skill tends to develop that way 😂
Brandon's channel is by far one of my favorite channels. All my friends I have shown tell me they dived down the rabbit hole quickly, and binge everything. Keep up the amazing work Brandon. You have been inspiring watching your journey from concept to final outcome.
I very much appreciate hearing that! Thank you!!
It amazes me that you don't have more subs. All of the videos are excellent. Watching raw material get transformed into works of art with precision.
Thank you 🙏
He's only been here 10 mins.
Give him a bit.
And realistically, they're the lucky ones.... They're going to have an awesome back catalogue to make their way through.
I loved that plot twist at the end and all the shots from the new gantry are incredible, I can't wait to see more projects shot with it
It has been a dream to use! Thanks
At around 14:00, The reason why a 0.001 pass leaves a bad finish is because the corner radius on the carbide insert allows the part to be deflected radially. Taking a depth of cut greater than corner radius of the tool means you'll have most of the cutting forces directed axially. Joe Pie has a video where he makes an aluminum toothpick, it demonstrates how direction of the cutting forces matter.
Going to check that out now.
I just discovered this channel. No hamming it up in front of the camera, no brand promotion, no irrelevant dialogue and no horse laughing. Fitting and turning, machining, engineering and hand drafting done with a professional touch and a tad of humor. Quality stuff. Your grandfather would be proud. Luck would have it he has a grandson with a genuine interest in his legacy.
I really appreciate that! Thanks and welcome
That drafting arm takes me back to high school. Before CAD. Love it!
I've been contemplating my own R8 shank slitting saw arbor for some time now. I just tossed out my own ideas in favor of your design. I like how you used the added reach to house the sliding step adapter. Brilliant! And so much better than those sloppy commercial designs.
Thanks! You should go for it!
I’m no machinist and have never tried but I’d like to say that your videos are easy to understand and follow even when you use machinist terminology. Keep up the great work.
I'm glad to hear that! Thanks
Every slitting saw/arbor I've ever used has runout, period ! Your example is far superior and is one i will be making.
Man, the box of shame bit at the end just hit right.
Going from what you had to what you created is so awesome to watch ! Good work as always
Thank you!
Always a joy and pleasure to watch you make some truly incredible tools. the precision and care you take with all your machining steps also really tickles the OCD perfectionist in me. keep up the great work man!
Much appreciated! Thanks
That smile when inspecting the results of your hard work was perfection
As an old retired Machinist, your design and your work is exceptional.
I would recommend parkerizing or a black oxide finish to preserve your hard work.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks!
I am constantly impressed with your attention to high precision accuracy and detail. I am loving the videos and it’s great that you take the time to provide good commentary also as the video progresses. The little moments of humour are a nice touch! Although I am not an engineer, machinist or even close to that your videos and projects have stirred an interest of such things in me which has been dormant for years. So thank you and please keep going. Your family I am sure are very proud of what you are doing and have done 👍🏻
Thank you so much! It's never too late to get into something new.
Man I love your channel! It is becoming my favorite and I'm subscribed to a lot of channels and a lot of machining channels. I am anxiously awaiting the next video. As a hobby machinist you inspire me to strive for higher accuracy and precision. Keep up the great work both filming and machining!
Thank you so much!
Deejay I❤
I just wanted to let you know that your channel is the reason I changed my major back to mechanical engineering. Your videos reminded me of the joy I felt not only learning everything I did from my grandpa and uncle, but the joy I felt from working on my own projects, seeing the fresh chips flying away from the cutter, and making any & all tools I wanted or needed. I just wanted to say thank you so much for reigniting the spark of passion for this career, from the bottom of my heart, thank you. I can't wait to see your next project, and I wish you nothing but the best for it.
That's awesome, man! I'm glad I could be an inspiration! Thanks
Such precision and attention to detail makes me think things are right in the world.
4 seconds after posting! I dont think I've come any closer than that!
Another masterful video. Top notch machine work, editing, and camera angles as usual. One of the few channels on CZcams that I derive genuine joy from watching, every time. Thanks for all of the effort you put into this - your success is well and truly deserved!
Thank you very much!
I learned a lot from the between centers turning. Not sure I have done that since high-school 50 years ago. Thank you.
I really enjoy seeing an engineer putting their ideas to work and especially refreshing to see your mistakes as well as your gems. Thanks for including me in your journey, always looking forward to seeing your next post.
My pleasure, man!
I've never used a mill or lathe but your videos are truly inspiring and I hope that I get to try it out one day.
It's pretty satisfying. Even for someone who's done it a lot. I highly recommend it! Thanks
Really nice! I don't have a mill yet but this would surely have come in handy this week (made some locking collars as drillstops and ended up 3d printing them)
It works! It really works! Next side project Doc, Mr Fusion!
Cheers
I always used Pre-hardened 4140 for making tool holders that needed extra strength for milling or turning. Strong and takes a nice surface finish
Hey Brandon, another great build! As an aspiring machinist I’ve always wondered where people source their material and supplies (that is what you don’t already have in the shop😉) if you don’t mind me asking, where do you buy/get yours? Thanks for sharing !
A lot of machine/fab shop will have off cuts they sell to people. Try calling around to local shops or metal suppliers and ask what they have available.
For shops making money there are metal suppliers. Usually these kinds of suppliers are near an industrial area of a city. If you are making hundreds of thousands of large “things” you can go to directly to the mill and specify an alloy. For those of us working home shops, there are a number of internet suppliers. Metals Supermarket, Online Metals, Speedy Metals, McMaster-Carr, Amazon and eBay are all places I have sourced small quantities of specific alloys/shapes.
Thanks! For things I don't have I usually go McMaster-Carr. It's not the cheapest, but in most cases it's the most convenient and fastest to get
You should try drafting in ink (5).
Brandon, beautiful build and lots of informative tips for home gamers. Your stepped index with long support is the way people expect the eBay/Amazon slitting arbors to operate. Thanks for sharing the fundamental defects that make them inexpensive, preventing thousands (or more) of us learning the hard way.
My pleasure! Thank you!
I’m not quite sure what it is but this project was definitely one of my favorites to watch.
Awesome job.
Did your new filming setup enable you to shoot new angles, or just make the overall filming easier? As always-thanks for sharing! 😁
It was WAY easier. And definitely some new angles I couldn't get before. Thanks!
Well done. Turned out very nice. I actually have one of those import slitting saw arbors and seem to have gotten lucky because it turns very true and so does the blade.
You might want to machine some hex flats on the locking nut though, or at least i had to because after using it, it would lock up so tight I had a hard time undoing it with an allen wrench without partially stripping the bolt head.
You lucky dog! haha I'll have to see if the cap locking becomes and issue. I don't have much material left to cut a flat into on that area.
Yes, I have an arbor and saw that is now a one-piece design because the Allen screw is stripped. It wasn't an accidentally bone head mistake that it's stripped. It was the second time I used it when the socket head retaining screw welded themselves into the arbor. I knew full well the hex socket was going to strip, but I knew that if it wasn't going to loosen with the amount of force I was using that I would be drilling it out anyway.
Okay. So I’ve watched every single video in your channel, and even binge-watched several in a row recently, and now I’ve completely run out of videos of yours to watch, so now what do I do? I’m now re-watching all your videos all over again, from the beginning…and I’m not even a machinist! If anybody on CZcams should be given an award for knowing how to make captivating videos, it’s you. If I weren’t so bad at math, I’d pay you to teach me machining because you present the machinist skills so incredibly well that I find them almost Mesmerizing. With how well you present machining and your wonderful voice and captivating delivery, I’d say you’re the David Attenborough of the machining world. Keep up the great work (and keep those videos coming!)
You did an absolute fantastic job with this neat little project. The pattern the blade is leaving, an entrance and exit cross pattern means you nailed the blade squareness. You should be very proud of this one! Thank you for sharing.
Interesting. I didn't even notice that! Thanks!
My Dad always warned me when grinding a tool to avoid it turning gold or blue by constantly dipping it into water to cool it as that would take the temper out of it. Your thoughts ? also when you checked the runout on the blade was it a new blade or one that you ran in the junk arbor as prior use in the junk arbor might have altered the blade itself :)
There might be something to that. As it is basically annealing after all. I'm pretty sure the blade I tested with was never used. Others are suggesting that is normal so a progressive cut can be achieved.
The old don't let a tool get hot enough to change color is a left over from when cutting tools were made of carbon steel, high speed steel doesn't care about heat and you can even heat it up glowing red and bend it and just let it cool naturally and it'll still maintain it's hardness
@@markshort9098 Thanks, I did not know that :)
@@jetegtmeier71 i should have added that it is possible to anneal high speed steel but it has to be red hot for a long time
@@markshort9098 It just goes to show you never stop learning :) thank you for sharing your knowledge :)
I think this was the best subtitle I’ve seen yet.
There was more to this build than I expected! It turned out beautiful in the end, both aesthetically and functionally.
That twist ending though 😂
It's cool to know that this is now (probably) all filmed on a new and more convenient camera system rather than one tripod with telescopic locking legs.
That surface finish 😍
😁
I love hearing people with american accents using british sayings, that utterance of "Bugger up" sent a smile straight to my face 😂 another reason i absolutely love this channel 😁
i've watched this video like 4, 5 times now, still haven't gotten boring
I appreciate the fact that the more time you spend in the shop, the more you embrace "good enough"
Perfection is great to keep in your mind.. but it truly is unobtainable. It's nice to focus on making something perfect in the ways that matter, but relaxing a little in the ways that don't. I'm sure some really talented machinists went out of business because they were TOO dedicated to perfection, while others can produce a perfectly functioning part in a reasonable amount of time.
This is one of my favorite channels. Aside from your obvious skill at machining, I guess what impresses me the most is the skill with which you do the drawings. I still have a drafting table and machine but as an EE, I mostly drew schematics and wiring diagrams. Your mechanical skills amaze me.
Much appreciated! Thank you
Spat my coffee out when you spun up the “bargain” arbour during the intro. Was NOT expecting that much eccentricity.
😂 Don't worry I true it up better than that when I actually needed to use it
Warm up and old machinists heart to see you make your own tools... Great job
Thanks for taking the time to make the video and share it.
This episode was Chock Full of Cuts ! Plus the R8 in me was naturally drawn in. Thanks!
Once again the end product looks like jewelry. I am an old old school machinist from the day that all tooling was cobalt or HSS and they mounted in an Armstrong holder in a lantern style toolpost or home made fly cutter. Most of the lathes I ran were conversions from flatbelt days and had truck transmissions rigged on them. A Lima drive, carbide bits and indexing tool holders were cutting edge. It took me years to polish my tool grinding skills and I am amazed at your tool grinding expertise. If you ever wonder how you would measure up to the machinists of your grandfather's day, let me absolutely assure you that you are just as brilliant, resourceful and creative as any I have ever seen. Your grandfather can rest in peace knowing that his machinery is in your truly deserving hands. I am also amazed at your comfort and skill on that old school drafting board. I learned on one just like that back in the early sixties. I want you to know that I despise slander and flattery is just the other side of a bad coin. This not flattery, you truly deserve these flowery words.
Art from Ohio
That is extremely kind, Art! Thank you so much! And thanks for sharing. I would have loved to work in an older machine shop like you did.
Don't know why I keep watching these. I'm a computer scientist. Haven't worked a day with my hands in my life. Don't know what you're saying 1/3 of the time. Still absolutely love it.
By far my favourite machining channel. I've really enjoyed every video and have even made the collet blocks for myself. Amazing content. Thank you
Awesome! Thank you very much
Whiskey in the glass, family sound asleep. And another epic episode of Inheritance machining.
Congrats on 200 k subs! Well deserved.
Thank you!!
Thanks so much for these videos. Your straight forward calm tone is a pleasure watching wander (as i do) through countless side journeys to finally reach the end goal.
If you haven't thrown the cheapo one, then delete the pip off, enlarge the hole to get rid of trueness issues, and make a cap that's also the bolt. But make the disc flange 2.5~3 mm thick for a low profile cut. Could be useful to get over features and it wouldn't cost you more than an hour to do it all. I have several of these cheapo ones that i've converted for different blades that were either with defects or non standard sizes and they're great for just grabbing off the shelf, no blade change, just plug and play. If you do the can and bolt in one, the rigid nature will allow you to run bigger blades too, near table saw sizes (if, you feel comfortable with such a size) which allow you to get into really deep features and also, owing to the large diameter, slow down the cut a lot.
All that jamble said, you've created yet another cool tool for the shop. Awesome!
I binge watched your whole channel since I stumbled upon it not too long ago. I really enjoy your attention to detail bc I’m a meticulous person as well. Since I’ve started making more content for my channel, I totally understand how refreshing it can be, having easy camera set ups that you don’t have to put too much time into. Definitely speeds up the process and keeps motivation up.
I appreciate it, man! Yeah the camera gantry is a life saver. I'd recommend it to anyone who films
That trepanning finish was seriously gorgeous, I said Woah just as you were complimenting it.
😁 Thanks!
Crazy man, crazy... can't stop listening to you in these Cad/Cam - times, thank you, and thanks to your grandfather.
I wish I could properly articulate the joy this channel brings me. I can't wait to see you fix that problem.
The camera gantry is my favorite build of yours, and I can see it in action in this video. Good stuff.
It's my favorite too! Thanks!
“Oh yea, that will do nicely” 👏👏👍😀
A man that can make his own tools for his craft, can not be stopped!
I’m so glad I found this channel!
It’s so relaxing listening to you and watching you draft up your plans. Bob Ross level soothing great videos man!
You are such an inspiration to me, showing the mistakes and every try and seeing the realistic side of making your own tools is awesome.
I love to hear that! Thank you
Your bolt action pen came on my recommended like a year ago, pretty much a week after it’s upload, I’ve probably watched it 5 times and upon clicking on your channel, I found a treasure trove of engineering and shipbuilding, and no other channel is like yours, love it man keep it up!
Second time I've watched this video and it's just as good as the first. The production values are just awesome! I come away feeling so relaxed after a dose of Inheritance Machining. Thanks for all your hard work 👍👍
That ending was great. Can never escape a good side project😂
You are a master of relaxing satisfying cinematography and narration.
Another killer video! And that cliffhanger ending…..Can’t wait for the next vid! One of the best machining channels on YT bar none 👍🏻
😁 Thanks so much!
Add this saying, "A lazy man will find the most efficient way". Dad used to use it all the time, when streamlining the way he worked in his workshop, rather then doing more steps then what was needed, or using more material then needed.
Saving yourself money by making it yourself, has produced a tool that would have cost thousands of dollars to buy, plus given you extra tools from the side projects.
Brandons birthday- 8" buffer w/stainless wire wheel on one side, scothbrite wheel on the other. Anniversary -Horizontal bandsaw
I remember buying one of those slitting saw arbors(staraight shank style but the same cheezy chinese multi type) 15 years ago. I had a hell of a time cutting until I finally realized the runout. Great project, perfect series of machining techniques. Grade=A+
Sounds like you've peaked at my wish list 😂 Thanks as always, Keith!
I have always appreciated your machining skills, but I particularly liked the video editing on this one. Sound effects and emojis were on point 😂
Got a little fancy schmancy this time 😁 Thanks
Certainly one of your best videos.
Excellent project and excellent results!!
Thanks for posting.
God Bless.
Why, thank you!
So satisfying to watch you work.
There's something so calming about hand drawings
As an engineering student, these actually help me figure out how the parts I design will be manufactured.
My dad's an engineer and after I started machining, I gained a lot more respect for him when I found out how much he pays attention to how his designs get made. I've cursed engineers more times than I can count but he and Brandon are the exceptions
Very nice. Each episode builds on the previous overarching quality of the workshop as well as the individual project at hand. The quality and skill are beyond evident in each piece as well as the production quality. Just take it easy to not burn yourself out and let the success roll in.
Thank you very much! Fortunately I've been able to avoid burnout with proper video scheduling
Bro... i watched ur all videos in one sitting..i didnt understand where to comment ..... i love your work bro ..i love the way you love your work and most importantly your grandpa..
waiting for your more work videos .. god bless you ❤
There are so many accolades I could think up for this video, but fewer words are often better. Having watched dozens of David Wilk's videos on trepanning I was delighted to see this technique put to use on a small scale. The camera gantry seems to be working perfectly, whereby I must say your videos were always of top quality. Thanks so much for another one. Your voice-over discussion is like a course in practical engineering.
Thanks as always for the kind words, Bruce! And yes, the camera gantry has been a real game changer for the filming. So much less hassle!
This makes my overly OCD perfectionist soul happy... like way too happy to describe on youtube. Thank you.
You really got me! I was looking forward to see it in use but there were no signs that you would be testing it and all of the sudden you say thanks for watching, and I really didn’t expect that you would not include the best and most rewarding (for you) part until you revealed the truth…😂😂
😂
That is so satisfying to see how true it runs.
Your videos and narration are the best on you tube. Thank you so much for sharing !
That is very kind! Thank you
Beautiful video sir. Seeing a man create is so cathartic.