Full Appreciation For Full Length Resizing
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- Experienced reloaders come to realize that there is much more to our full length resizing dies than just pulling our press handles...And new reloaders don't get the word in the beginning... Sorry for the Great Depression remarks - that started at the end of the Roaring Twenties in 1929...
I'm about to begin reloading and in the middle of figuring out the gadgets which I need! Damn! This video is a pure gold for me! I can't tell how much I appreciated this video! If I could give thousand likes I would!!!
Rtwo Comm - This is the reason YT posters like me are doing these things...Your comments are tremendously appreciated... Good reloadin' to ya, FC
Man who are you telling. I just started reloading myself and was getting pressure signs on my primers with 2 full grains under max load. Been doing some reading and it can be caused as by a headspace issue in my rifle. I set my Lee die up by the same paper and im guessing it pushed my shoulders back more than it needed too and let the case head smack the bot face. Think im gonna fire form all these 20 rounds I loaded and just neck size them and bump the shoulders back .001 and see how that works.
Hope by now you learned about the Feel Method for minimal shoulder bump and head space.
Caleb Godwin man I had the same issue I couldn’t figure it out. I even pierced a primer. I used a lee die and set it up the same way. Now I’m using a Hornady match bushing die. I bumped the shoulder back 2 thou on the fire formed brass. We will see when I go shoot if that fixed my pressure issue.
There is a lot to learn, keep reading , you can only get better and safer.
That was utterly one of the best explanations of headspace and how the coinciding tools are used in relation to one other that I have ever found on CZcams great job appreciate it keep them coming
Monster Messgarage - Thank you, much appreciation, for your thoughtful comment - much said in few words. Happy Thanksgiving to you... Steve
if the FL DIE makes body contact with the shell holder, you can turn it another 1 2 3 4 5 turns in, it will not change, neither the shell holder nore the DIE will give in.
What might affect your headspace, is different shell holders from different makers, which might give you variance with dies of other makes!
Love your video's bud you are a wealth of knowledge..I have got alot of very useful information from you that I use all the time. I also pass this on to friends and coworkers who are new to reloading. Thanks and keep the vids coming.
I had to go through an official training and even needed to pass an exam to be allowed to do buy powder and to do handloading here in Germany.
In the whole thing over a few days, there was not a single word told about calibrating brass according to specific headspace measurements.
They did mention headspace once but nothing about the details I have been learning in the CZcams videos in the last couple of years.
Today I know how to do more precise loads thanks to videos like this here.
Thank you and take care!
Once you screw the die down to the shell holder, that's it. It hits and any further turns inward will result in the die hitting the shell holder. No change once you're bottomed out. I think extra 1/8 turn is just to make sure you have good contact ??? Love the video's, thank you !
Exactly. I shut his video off once he said that
No, wrong. There's some spring in your press and if you adjust past the point where the die contacts the shellholder, you will get some additional set back of the shoulder. You aren't actually getting all of the full length resizing if you just stop at the first contact. I had some cases where I did as you said and they wouldn't chamber! I then went another 1/4 turn and resized and then they all chambered.
@@robertbrandywine makes sense, were are talking about both thousandths of an inch and thousands of pounds of pressure
Man, in a reloading world of chaos and confusion, you are a guiding light. Thank you for this video!
maxinspace1 - Appreciate the kind remarks...Good reloadin' to ya, FC Steve
Once again you have given so much to the reloading community,I am having fun and learning everyday,here's to you the GODFATHER of reloading!!!...
FC I agree full size dies are the best way insure the best result. I have shown other reloaders that some of their cases are not always resized properly only by measuring the cases at various points did I prove that the lower portion of the cases were out of spec. Thanks for making this video now I can just refer people to this link. You rock..
NYC Reloader - And much appreciation to you for any and all of your great comments... Best to ya, FC
That 1/3 or 1/4 turn of the die is so you get cam over on your press. That is how we know all the slack is taken out and confirms the case is actually bottomed out in the die bumping the shoulders back to within SAAMI. We now also have "small base" dies made which resize to minimum specs for reliable feeding in the plethora of AR style rifles manufactured today.
Very true but I've never had a need for SB dies.
One of the best educational and safety videos on CZcams. Excellent! Thanks!
I have never commented on any video, but my sincere thanks goes out to you for your informative and thoughtful videos. Powder coating and casting are favorites of mine, and much of the knowledge to pursue these disciplines came for you. Please keep producing your high quality educational videos.
Hoot Owl - Thanks for posting comment...all YT posters need these, and they are much appreciated. Have a very fine day, FC
Very good info! I have yet to use a full length die for my 308, I used the lee collet die for the first time and achieved 2 thousandths inch of neck tension easily. This video will help me make the best possible reloads with full length resizing. Thank You!!!
Just ordered the rcbs mic im used to doing precsision work with mic so this is why i bought the rcbs unit very good information thank you
I've been reloading for a little over 6 years and I've never known how important measuring headspace is and the reason your told to add a 1/4 to 1/3 turn when setting up the die. I'm always doing research on new reloading techniques and practices and this is the first time I've heard it explained properly. Thanks for providing a very useful and important piece of information.
natewesselink after your shell holder reaches and touches your die, the extra 1/4-1/3 turn gives you “cam over”.
Progressive, or turret presses have the base plate for the dies. That base plate will lift up a little when the ram makes contact with the die. The extra 1/4 turn will allow the ram to always remain in contact with the die as the plate rises. I use a single stage press, therefore, I never give the die that extra 1/4 turn.
Outstanding video, much thanks. Just purchased the full Hornady bullet and head space comparator kits and anvil. I wish I would have bought them a long time ago. Excellent tutorial, one to keep for sure. Thanks again for taking the time to make it.
Just getting into reloading again, and your videos are GREAT! Well explained and your info has helped tremendously.
Also Redding competition shell holders that add or subtract .002 makes controlling headspace when resizing a lot easier than screwing the die back and forth 1/4 turns. Also when you set your die put on a hornady die lock ring.
Michael Ajero - And of course, we check the tightness of dies regularly, unless we are doing handgun ammo where sub MOA is not an issue. Those shellholders allow for easy bumping for sure. Cam over presses also allow good bumping, and we have to use our Precision Mics or Comparaters either way...The only reason I don't have those variance shellholders is that bumping with my Co - Ax does it well for me - and it doesn't use shellholders. It really bumps nicely... Best to ya, FC
Thank you! Your video just explained what the compensators that I have are used for. I bough out a friends reloading stuff and he did not know why he had purchased them. I have asked around at the shooting range but it was just a bag of aluminum looking parts. i have been using a case gauge to make sure the rounds where sammi. Any cases that didn't fit i put in the scrap pile. Now I know ! Thanks for making things safer.
Bashline Dennis - Those rounds that were OKed by the case gauge may still have some issues that will be brought out in future videos...Most reloaders have been led to believe that simply full length sizing our brass assures goodness - thanks to SAAMI, we are usually OK. Sometimes we are not, but it's always better to be more than OK...we want to be more informed and precise than just OK... Best to ya, FC
don't matter how far you screw die down, when shell holder touches bottom of die, that's it, shell does not go further into die, you might not be able to cam over if you have it screwed down too far.
Great video mate very easy to understand .Steve from Australia
Videos like this is why you are called the "Godfather of Reloading"!
General Steven D. Lee 5683 - Thanks for the comment. Used to be at meetings, I was the youngest one there. That has changed as of late. Have a great day, FC Steve
I have never completely understood headspace discussions before ever I completely understood everything you said and have a much better understanding and for that I thank you very much
Very good information, I've always FL resized everything just because I've got it on all dies.
This video reminds me of one of my Chemical and Mechanical Engineering classes, this video was so thoroughly done sir. Thanks!!!
If you look at SAAMI Specs for many cartridges, there is a .010” range from min to max spec.
If you have a chamber cut to the minimum spec, many people don’t realize that even factory new brass will be above the minimum spec. This is also the reason why some of these “match spec” guns are problematic if you try to shoot factory ammo. In a bolt action, this can be felt by effort to cam over the bolt when chambering a round. In a semi auto (AR) or even some lever actions (browning BLR), a minimum spec chamber can result in the bolt not closing with brass that is above minimum spec.
Some people still advocate neck sizing only. Having designed ammunition and shot competition from service rifle to f-class for over 25 years, I only full length resize.
Reason is that during a match, my gun will get dirty and that extra grime that is building up can lead to issues chambering. Bench rest is fine for neck sizing only, but remember they religiously clean after 5 to 10 shots, not the 50-100 shots before I can or will clean. In fact, I purposely fire 10-20 rounds before a match and start with that fouling so I don’t have irregular shots as the barrel goes from sparkling clean to fouled.
Has full length resizing impacted brass life?
No, I normally will take 500 pieces of brass and Load it 4-6 times and retire the brass at the same time I replace a barrel (2000-3000 rounds depending on the cartridge).
Has full length resizing made my rifles less accurate?
No, I went all the way to high master using nothing but full length resizing using mostly Redding competition dies.
It’s also asked if I neck turn as well. No again because I design my chamber to use the brass I use without neck turning. For my competition bolt actions, I use only Lapua. However, when shooting service rifle or cartridges I design for hunting, I use Winchester as my baseline and allow enough clearance that the brass can be formed with thicker brass (Federal) without clearance issues.
Since these designs are shooting sub 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards with hunting bullets on both Winchester and Federal brass, clearly the extra chamber clearance is not impacting accuracy.
Additionally the SAAMI specs for cases and chambers are different. Comparing the min/max cases v. chambers is interesting.
Broadly there are three type of fits for different case designs. The .30-'06 and 308 Winchester are typical of cases shaped like them. The range of fit with max. ammo/min. chamber v. min. ammo/max. chamber is .004" interference to .013" clearance.
The 7mm Rem. Mag. and similar belted magnums the range of fit is.009" clearance to .026" clearance.
The .30-30 and similar rimmed cases the range of fit is .017" clearance to .047" clearance.
There is a difference between bumping the shoulder back 2 thousands or 10 thousands
2 thousands will not affect case life as much as 10.
Personally I bump 2 thousands with a fl die on my 30-06 for hunting
You paid for my education, thank you!
Loved your video, very high quality. Thanks!
In 1926, SAAMI was founded, the Great Depression was still over 3 years away. We were enjoying prosperity.
cal30m1 yep, stock market crash was 1929
FC, i had the same problem many moons ago with a 243m77, on warm days it would chamber just fine, but if it got down to 10-20 degrees you couldn't get the bolt to close, and i didn't have all these fancy tools like now a days, but what i did was cut a case down to see if it was the head or the neck! anyway i ended up shaving about .005 off the bottom of the die to push the shoulder back a little more, and it worked fine after that! but now there's access to every tool you could ever think of! a few clicks and it's at your door, excellent vid FC thanks
shotdog - And I believe it's Hornady that makes thinner shell holders to do the same thing that you did shaving the die bottoms...Plus we have presses that toggle over to give us bumping action. I gave away those small base dies as the problem wasn't the heads of the rounds. Have a great day, FC
Thank you for the video I just started reloading again! Boy things have changed.
It doesn't matter 1/3 of a turn or 1/4. You can add 5 extra turns and nothing will change. It still will be resized to the FS specs.
Andrei Yermakovich Wait. What!!?? I thought if you screw down your dies further, it bumps the shoulders back further. Please explain.
@@jamiesloan5902 It's only if you unscrew the die you increase the head space. In this case there is no contact between the die and the shell holder. If you first unscrew it and then screw it in, then you can reduce it. But once contact is made, it doesn't matter, how much you screw it in, it's FS.
Yup. When the shell holder contacts the bottom of the die it stops. Unless you are compressing the steel of the die, I fail to see how the cartride case can be pushed further into the die by pushing harder. It is steel against steel.
My belief is that the 1/4 to 1/3 turn is done only to insure that any slop in the threads is taken up. But you can't make the headspace shorter than what the die length allows. I guess using a thinner shell holder would, like if you ground the top side of the shell holder down with a wet stone.
I did a test of this today. I am surprised actually, I am not entirely correct in my thinking. On my presses I tested a Hornady and a lee die. If adjusted so that the dies are screwed into the the press until it firmly touches the ram and they are locked down with the lock ring, both dies gave a base to shoulder datum measurement 5 thousanths longer than if adjusted with the extra 1/4 turn as instructed by Lee. That is more than the 2 or 3 I would have guessed. But in the end the difference between 1/4 turn and almost a half turn (that was the most I could get before I felt like I might break something) was only 1 thousandth. So the difference between 1/8 of a turn, and the maximum you can adjust the die in without damage is tiny...maybe 2 thousands, and even an idiot would be aware that much cam over is destructive. Certainly not the dangerous 17 thousandths cited here, at least with my dies and presses.
Measuring headspace with spent primers in your case is a huge error factor. Buy a Lee decapper tool and remove the primers before measuring any headspace measurement on fired brass...
I agree. For my bolt rifles I like to take a batch of fired brass, neck size about 10% of total and check the chamber fit. If tight, I FLR the entire batch, if not I neck size the entire batch. Next time the same brass is fired, I neck size about 10% of total, check chamber fit, if tight then I FLR (most likely depending on the rifle) the entire batch pushing the shoulder back 0.002" less than fired brass head space followed by trimming. Blindly FLR'ing each reloading shortens brass life unnecessarily. I don't mix loads across rifles.
Awesome info. I'm starting out reloading. Thank you. Subscribed
Thank you for the video I just started reloading again! Boy things have changed. I'm learning all kinds of good stuff!
Great video! Thank you
Whoever said you can't teach old dogs new tricks was WRONG. I just learned the Answer to a problem I have had sever times in my over 50 years of reloading. Cases not going to battery on 2 of my bolt guns. Repeated measuring of CASE LENGTH never fixed the problem and when I began reloading, there were no such Head Space tools to my knowledge. I still do not have one, BUT I WILL IN THE NEXT WEEK OR TWO.
That sort of Shoots Down the Neck Size Only people UNLESS They ALSO check Head Space.
Thanks for Shining a Light on this old dog.
you should have no problem neck sizing only on fire formed brass. headspacing shouldn't be an issue as the case is blown out to the exact size of the rifles chamber
I have at least never had any issues on neck sizing only on fire formed brass as long as they only go in the one rifle of course.
What I was refereeing to is my brass that is 30 years old and fired several times.
That was absolutely fantastic info FC! Now I'm really nervous to get into bottle neck reloading!
you are awesome my friend. thanks for the video.
This is great info i must admit i dont pay enough attention to this ... Thank you so much for pointing it out !!!
More succinct and clear than anything else I've reviewed on the matter. Call Hornady for your commission, you just made them a sale. Thank you as always, Mr. Cookie.
I suspect @Erik Cortina was influenced by this video. He as a great one he made last year which could be a "Part 2" to this one, where he advocates explicitly full length resizing to minus .002" compared to the fired case. Per @FortuneCookie45LC this is within his range, and could be considered a sweet spot. This full length resizing is critical, as when that is set as a repeatable baseline across the brass, then one may perform the ladder of rounds with 0.003" variation in seating depth. And I have bought in to the school of staying away from the lands. He starts his ladders 0.002" off "jam", and works increments of 0.003" to find, hopefully, two adjacent small group nodes, and that seating depth (see his video) is pretty much set for the life of the barrel. Not being a competition shooter, I doubt I will ever change barrels because of wear, so this is wonderful news/advice.
so much valuable knowledge. thanks for passing down your wisdom
I have been reloading for 30+ years and have always used full length dies with the 1/4 turn and have always had good results. Just my experience.
Very nice video. Lots of info the think about.
Wow, I got the comparator kit in the mail midway through watching this video, that story struck close to home you told about the 308 brass, excpet.. I began working on a new caliber a few weeks ago. I was checking the cbto measurement, and at a length well below my measurement, my dummy round wouldn't chamber. Come to find out, I'm an idiot and didnt have my fl sizing die screwed in far enough. Man, I hadn't considered it being a headspace issue. I have always done like the instructions say, touch the shell holder and go another 1/3 turn. That's funny, I'm glad I watched this and glad I ordered the comparator. Other than feeling foolish, I'm excited to resize my brass again. Thanks for the videos fortune cookie.
Jason Need - It sure is nice to have control over our headspace rather than just going with "touching the die + 1/4 turn" or have we done 1/3 turn? - and the headspace is affected. Good shootin' to ya, FC Steve
A very informative video, the Hornady comparator looks to be an essential tool for anyone that shoots rimless cartridges, I am very glad that of all my many rifles/handguns, no one single one uses rimless, when you headspace off a rim, you have no such problems. The S.A.M.M.I and CIP standards are a fine system, however, they are only as good as the manufacturers that use them ! I have recently bought 50-110 Winchester brass that is .010" undersize with a rim dia that is .08" undersize, a friend has a Ruger No1 in 303 which has a groove size of .316" ! when it should be .312", and most guns in Colt 45 are groove size .452" when SAMMI spec is .454/6", so no one would appear to be following standards.
Most ammo manufacturers make their ammo undersized and most weapon manufacturers make their weapons oversized. If u want a proper fit you need a custom gun with handloaded ammo
Awesome video! Amazing info! I went through a lot of work(whole notebook) to get my 308 dialed in, but if you take the time, you can shoot the hasp off of a master lock at 250yds. And it's the little things that make the difference!
But eventually you have to start over in precision shooting. Let's face it, you have to clean the bore every now and then.
Hey! That might be a coffee chat video!
Thanks Steve FC45!
kyle lusk - Very good point, kyle..!! A mildly fouled rifle bore is actually desired. We don't want to remove 100% of the copper fouling even when we are cleaning. Even then, the first round from a "clean" barrel is out of the group - we need fouling rounds, and those aren't always convenient. When we were varmint shooting out in Williams and Weed CA, when we hit a ground squirrel with the fouling round, we knew it was going to be a great day... Best to ya, FC Steve
I have the 223 & 308 Rcbs precision mics to be honest I like them more then the Hornaday unit. I guess my question to this video is how do you get the proper head space. Because I also went into my 308 stash and it’s ALL exactly like what you just showed in this video. Some is at 0 some is +5 some is -4 it’s all of it is all over the place. I purchased this brass once fired I cleaned it de capped it and resized it in the Rcbs small base AR set thinking oh well it will be there when I need it. Boy I’m glad I watched this video before I possibly popped my $2500 AR10. Well looks like I have a ton of sorting,annealing possibly trimming again. At least the brass is clean now smh 🤦♂️ there’s so much to reloading. Fun but definitely a in-depth hobby that needs to be taken very seriously.
very good video and thanks I am going get a set of these hornady tools today ,thank you very much
Steven DeAtley - The Comparator will serve you well... Best to ya, FC Steve
Excellent FC45LC, thank you!!
great vid!! You should start a reloading school as youd be a very good teacher. Coherent and simple.
I set my FL dies for a shoulder .002" smaller than chamber
Eye opener! I'm listening.
Drinking game rules:
Drink every time he says, “Full length resize your brass”
Ha! Right on! Or mispronounces "comparator"🤣🤣👍
Your terminology would be a little confusing to a beginner. Excessive headspace is better understood as too great a distance from the shoulder to the part of the chamber in front of it. You were waving your hand around the area of the cartridge head when you were discussing this, which was misleading. Also, it would have been helpful, when you got a -.003" reading on the RCBS gauge to explain that the minus meant the shoulder was .003" further back (toward the bolt face) than the first one that you measured and set to .000".
You're a star mate. Cheers. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👍🏼
Never gets old
a very good video sir ...well done
The Sinclair comparator allows for much faster, high volume, comparisons. I use both the RCBS Precision MIC to find a baseline case with the headspace I want, and then I use the same case to set up the Sinclair comparator. You can compare cases at one a second. Same goes for base to ogive and COAL comparisons.
This video answered a lot of questions thank you sir
Thank you for making this video.
jreg0028 - This video was to open up our considerations when FL sizing is being done...Good reloadin' to ya, FC
Great information - thanks.
If you have primers in unloaded cases for 35 years, are they still trustworthy?
What were the conditions of storage?
If stored in a cool dry place with a stable temperature, heck yeah!
What the difference if they are in brass cases or the jenky cardboard boxes they come in?
Awesome video! Thanks
Got the Wilson case guage,RCBS micrometer and Hornady comparator. In the end I take firing pin out(or set a 3 way safety for no pin cam) and use the feel method. I turn die out,and incrementally turn it inward until there is the least(if any ) amount of pressure when camming the bolt lugs. That bumps the shoulder just enough to minimize head space. Of course this requires cleaning off case lube and feeding sized case in chamber each time until you reach the desired die adjustment(depth) for head space. But good video thanks.
Sb dies are for people who do not understand headspace and die adjustments. I have never needed a small base die. Always measure a fired case before resizing for a new rifle. Always!! It took some time to fully understand headspace in the beginning but once I sat down and figured it out it is now second nature. Btw I use a fried 30 carbine to measure 223 and a .40 for 30 06
I'm just getting started in reloading. I don't own the headspace kit, yet. So, I plan on starting my resizing die out on the "long" headspace end of the spectrum. I'll see if the brass will easily chamber in my AR, then if it doesn't, I'll screw the die down a little at a time, until I get the headspace that I need. Is this a good approach? I've seen other people recommend this method. Especially with a bolt action rifle. I ordered the AR Series small base dies for my ar 15, so the last thing that I want is excessive headspace, on top of already loose tolerances in diameter(for reliability purposes).
Great info as always,i have heard that competition shooters will adjust there headspace as you have shown to there rifles chamber to improve accuracy.
I have had trouble with 3006 brass i have neck resizing only with brass shot from my own rifle and this is the cause, great info thanks
Liams House Actually, another problem you may be having is a chamber that is slightly egg shaped. It other words, a fire formed case may not be turned in the correct orientation to fit your chamber's circumference imperfections. Most of the time, it's a shoulder(headspace) issue, but I've seen people also encounter a "circumference" issue, when trying to use fire formed cases. Just thought I would mention that to ya...
It doesn't matter because the shell holder stops on the bottom of the die. It literally cannot go any further, even if you give it an additional full turn.
Nice info…. These days I would resize them or pull the primers and reuse those. Too hard to find components.
Right of the bat, regarding the scale, you're confusing resolution with accuracy.
The balance has a "resolution" of 0.1 grains, that's not the margin of error as you see it listed on electronic scales, it is just the weight difference from one mark of the beam to the next. (I'm referring to the marks on the beam, to the right of the pivot point)
You can eyeball a 0.05 grain by getting in the middle of two adjacent marks, but it is out of the resolution of the scale, so don't swear by it, even though you'll be darn close.
Correctly calibrated, a balanced-beam scale, is very accurate, and assuming the pivot points are clean and free, it's also very precise.
Accuracy, precision and resolution, are different things, that are mistakenly interchanged.
Great info... Thank you
Measure it with out fired primer!
Great video on the head space especially using Hornady com par a tor. I was debating on getting one, now its a definite must have.
I have had problems with my 308 bolt gun chambering rounds occasionally, checked everything I could ...didn't understand why, this is definitely the problem. Question can i use my lee collet/neck size die to bump the shoulder... i would think no is the answer, only the full length die I expect
No, the lee collet die will NOT work for moving shoulder position on your brass. It only resizes the neck of the case. It does this very well because of the collet design but it will not touch the shoulder.
Noob to reloading it would be nice to see a diagram with the terms on it. I just learn things better using pictures. Great video btw.Thanks.
Load your unprimed full length sized shell case into the chamber of the gun your using. Rack it and eject it. I always cycle some sized shell's first before loading to make sure they will cycle. Check trimmed case length to standards, Check to make sure the OAL after loading is not exceeded. I've never had a problem. Factory loads have given me grief. They are always striving for higher velocities for sales. Follow instructions. Good demo here. Thanks
Wow, that's long winded. Just couldn't fight through all of that...
Nice video! When you inserted the live round into the hornady comparitor, you need to explain to the viewers that they need to be aware that the primer us NOT protruding out past the base of the case in mention,...otherwise, if it was in fact protruding, it would add to the overall measurement unknowingly...not so much on factory loaded bullets but a person could be comparing one of his/her own reloaded rounds, let's say, perhaps from some previously loaded ammunition
Sorry, could you explain then how we modify the headspace? Would I turn the die down in the press more turns to increase the headspace and back it off to decrease until I get 2 thousandths?
RedPillFreedom - That's it... let your RCBS Precision Mic or your Hornady Case Comparator be your guide. You take the reading off your fired brass and set your ammo headspace where you want it - screw the sizing die down to give you more headspace and the die out to give you less headspace. Too little headspace on your rounds, and your rounds won'c chamber. To much headspace and your ammo is too small for your chamber and will be overstressed on firing possibly to the point of head separations. We never want more than .003" of ammo headspace. The only exception might be a hair more headspace for dangerous game rifles where we really need those rounds to chamber, and we aren't going to reload that brass more than once or twice. But then again, if we are going on safari, we are quite likely to be using factory loads anyway. Best to ya, Merry Christmas and HNY, Steve
Thanks. It was a little above my head but it was good.
Welp, that was perfectly stated and fun.
I have found with the 308 lee dies I have to screw in the die further than it says in book.. If I do what the book says I cant get the bolt to close on the riflr.
Forster makes a tool that uses calipers called Datum Dial ammunition measurement kit. It can measure relative headspace as well as datum length. Like it better than the hornady comparator. I love the RCBS precision mic as I can make measurements faster and not worry about using calipers and having brass not sitting flat on the blade. Only wish RCBS made them for 6mmBr.
Michael Ajero - Another great point...RCBS doesn't make their Precision Mic for all calibers. Best Regards to ya..!! FC
this video is full of great info, I fully approved if it
MCK - Appreciate you taking the time to post comment... Have a great day, FC
Comparator. Say it with me compare-it-or.. Comparator!
Using the RCBS precision mic, if I have fired brass that measures .002 LESS than the SAAMI spec, does that measurement reflect exactly what my chamber is or is that just a measurement that reflects what the brass bounces back to after fire forming? How much bounce back does brass usually measure?
Michael Ajero - Great question, and thanks for bringing this up as we can't cover everything in a video - would be miles too long... We are not measuring .002 less than SAAMI specs, but rather .002 less than our fired brass headspace measurement (that happens to be within SAAMI specs if the manufacturers are doing their job). -- Absolutely, there is always brass bounce back - that's what allows extraction. And so the complexities of brass alloy and work hardening of case bodies (annealing won't help that) is one of the reasons some don't anneal their cases favoring instead to retire the brass after 5 - 6 loadings. For our purposes, the brass bounce back is a constant enough that our Precision Mics and Comparators relativity measurements work out for us very well. Have a great day, FC
The great depression started in Oct 1929
Steve Hoover True, but there was a multi-year buildup to the Crash. It didn’t happen overnight prior to that fateful day in October.
It seems to me that if the die is adjusted so it touches the shell holder, it shouldn't matter how much you adjust it down from there, it's still going to be touching the shell holder, and it should (in theory) size the case the same. If the die is touching the shell holder, that's as far as the case can be sized. If I'm wrong, then it's because there is something that I'm missing here.
Yes, that's what I though too! Why does it matter if you turn 1/4 rev. past or a full turn? It still going to stop at shell holder.
Scott Patterson - I know it sounds weird, but it's all in the flex of the press and also if your press toggles over or not...Recall the recommendations to touch the shellholder and then crank the die down an extra 1/4 to 1/3 turn?
Turns out that could be quite a bit of bumping of the shoulder going on. Once you get into bumping your case shoulders past the point of die touch, you will realize how much bumping you can do...Takes a Precision Mic or a Hornady Case Comparator to tell though. Some reloaders don't like stressing their equipment so they get those sets of shellholders that are thinner on top to allow the bumping without the stumping. Good reloadin' to ya, FC
FortuneCookie45LC, thanks for a great video. I must admit, I am still confused though, even after your explanation here. So screwing down past the point of touching the shell holder, you can bump the shoulder back more? I believe you of course, but cannot understand how that is possible, you are placing the steel shell holder hard up against a steel die body... it is difficult to understand how that shell holder can go further up without leaving permament damage to the die or the shell holder! Also, I have cam-over presses, how does that affect the result? Thank-you in advance, I am sure I am misunderstanding something.
totherepublic358 it is my belief that by turning down your die beyond touching the shell holder, what you are actually doing is removing any inherent slop within the parts of your press. as you stated correctly, you cannot travel farther than zero on your shell holder but to attain zero you must remove the previously mentioned slop, hope this helps.
Vinnie Kelly, thanks for the reply.
It is Com-pair-a- tor
Great video! My shooting buddy had a problem with full length sizing his 6.5 grendel. Following the instructions of his forster fl sizing die, it was bumping the shoulder .010" more than his chamber size. We measured this using fired brass and the hornady headspace comparator kit. We did this because he had a number of case head separations. Fortunately, there were injuries or damage, but it really should be something reloaders be aware of.
+DL33TT By "more" I assume you mean "less" as in shorter than his chamber? Otherwise it would not fit the chamber.
Dima Prok I'm assuming you didn't read the whole comment. I said he had case separation. It was oversizing the brass when set to forster's directions.
DL33TT I did read it. You said "Following the instructions of his Forster FL die, it bumped the shoulders 0.010 more" And I'm saying that if the case was too big, it simply wouldn't chamber and case head separation would not happen. It had to be smaller not bigger. The whole definition of "bumping the shoulders" means to make the case smaller.
Dima Prok if the case was not sized enough (longer headspace measurement), it would not chamber, and he would not have had case separation. I'm saying it bumped the shoulder back .010" so it DID chamber and separate a number of brass cases.
DL33TT - Sorry I missed out on this thread...Google did not post this in my inbox to pick up...I wished that I had saved the brass I have seen at the range with smudged case heads - then careful inspection would see the partial head separations once the smudges were rubbed off. Sometimes, our brass can be stressed so much, we can see that shiny ring of an impending complete case head separation. But other times, the partials can creep onto us from our over - stressed brass that can get by our case inspection. And the partials are often not noticed on firing. Your experience with the Forster FL sizing die can happen with any FL sizing die. There was a time that the die makers were recommending adjusting the sizing die by contacting the shell holder and then "1/8th a turn more". Bump sizers have learned that 1/8th turn can make a big difference in where that case shoulder winds up. And how do you measure 1/8th turn? Some reloaders were doing more trying to abide by the 1/8. Now, we are told to contact the shell holder. PO Ackley found that FL sizing can yield big variance if just done without regard. If you bump back the shoulders by .003 - .004", the brass should be good and safe to shoot (for 3-4 reloads anyway). Thanks for posting this comment...to the safety of others... Best Regards, FC Steve
now I'm a bit confused, I had all his RCBS Precision Mic figured out ten years ago.
if I measure a factory Round in 30/06 it measures -.006, that's six lines under the zero.
Now if I shoot that Round it will measure zero on the line, I then size it to push the shoulder back two lines below that zero line.
So that's just two thou back from the zero mark.
It seems your measurements are above the zero line and mine are below it.
I'm I doing something wrong?
You are doing nothing wrong, and your results are normal.
Nice video FC45
Chicowize - Thanks for your comment, Happy Holidays, Steve
I was under the impression that sb dies were what was needed for semi auto cartridge? And fl was for bolt action?
I have both 🤷🏽
Compare - ator. Damn FC45 lol
Exactly.
So I got a fired 260rem case that is reading 1.625 in the comparator. When I resize it it grows to 1.627. Shouldn't it go to 1.623 instead? The case also fits in a case gauge before resizing. My guess is the chamber is tight enough that the fl sizing die won't touch it so any brass from the body is being pushed into the shoulder area making it longer.
Invaluable information thank you ! One thing I don’t understand is when you hear guys saying they bump the shoulder back, what ever size, is this done on a normal full length die ? I’m using rcbs full length dies on my cases. Can anyone explain this 😊
Always learning something from FortuneCookie45LC. Valuable knowledge from someone who is willing to share it. Thank you sir.
I've watched every one of your videos and they're all very informative but after listening to you pronounce the word COMPARATOR, I felt compelled to contact you. English lesson 101... it's not pronounced "COMP" "AR" "ATOR". It is pronounced..."COMPARE" "ATOR"!!! You are "comparing" one measurement to another measurement.
@Truthisstrangerthan Fiction You are "comparing" one measurement to another measurement. Sound it out.
COMPARE-ATOR
POE-TAY-TOE
GENE-RATOR
COMPA-RATOR
ELE-VATOR
Jeffrey M. Green - POE-TAY-TER
@@herrprepper2070 MO-RON
@@herrprepper2070 You sound like a total uneducated idiot.
I just got my rcbs press, I was going to order dies Tonite, just not sure what kind?
i556 - All our reloading manufacturers make fine dies - Lee, RCBS, Lyman, Hornady, Redding, Dillon, Forster all make fine dies for our use. Least expensive are the Lees, and I have a lot of those. But I do have the others with the exception of Redding...just never got around to getting any of their dies. Best to ya, FC Steve
Thanks bud, I'm going to order some lee 224 valkyrie dies tonite. I need some primers and bullets thats about it.