Discogs: The Problem With The Medium Value - How To Avoid Getting Ripped Off
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2024
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A thought provoking video Michael.
We do need honesty in inputting information into Discogs.
Then we get more accuracy & consistency in the valuations.
What I don’t like when someone has a highly sort after record,
But the record is only in average condition and the seller expects big money because it’s a particular matrix.
We will get there I think .
Discogs,buyers & sellers we all need to work together.
Michael see you on the next one.👍
First rule of Discogs- don’t treat Discogs as the way to build a record collection and don’t feel you have to have only the most expensive release copy.
Not all records have specific releases that sound magical rather they all sound similar
That said there are some gems (same plating for other countries or later pressing, later engineers better, etc - most of these great sounding records unfortunately are known by most collectors interested in sound quality and more indifferent to inflated monetary value).
A German 1st press Led Zeppelin II is RL on side one for instance.
I read many detailed feedback reviewers from buyers when I am deciding which seller to buy from. Not just a 99.8% vs a 99.9% and number of sales. A lot of times the guy with less sales is better because he is hungry to please and he didn’t crate dive to get 5,000 listings.
I find good sellers - tell them what I am looking for. Especially if they under-grade
I keep the invoices, seller id and ratings for each purchase in the outer sleeve. I note when a crappy record is graded M- and avoid that seller.. I could care less if there is no poster or the cover isn’t pristine (mold is a deal breaker and few people report it), avoid sealed records (many are resealed) - the records are for playing and I am very particular of the country the seller lives in (frauds, wrong release) Someone in the UK is going to sift through a lot more of the same pressing than say someone in Italy. I eat a purchase when it is subpar - sometimes they might comp me a little financially. The worst is people sending the wrong pressing - of course they will choose to list it always with an earlier pressing assigned.
I ask people to check matrixes before they send them. Generally people are very responsive, sometimes insulted so I just tell them that I got burned before so please do so.
I only got burned once on a sale - 3 $$ lps underpriced but still pricey, they never sent them, others had the same problem and discogs shut down their account. So read a lot of feedback. They were not pleased with me and tried to reciprocate.
It pays to be nice, patient, talk music with them for more suggestions, cut a seller some slack, pay immediately and give positive embellished seller feedback.
I did 🇺🇸 record shows for 3 years running & each year built up a reputation for being one who sold most everything at fair value for both me & the customer. That's the goal , for seller & buyer to be satisfied.
exactly!!!
Agreed. I just purged some duplicates and the buyers were thrilled with me as a seller, and I was happy that they sold within 24 hours.... Everybody wins because I priced them to sell, and was conservative in grading.
It's the MEDIAN value NOT MEDIUM value statistically the 2 are totally different. Median means that as many items have sold below that price as above. MEDIUM may relate to average.
Sorry, I wrote a lengthy explanation above about this very important point and now I see you mentioned it once already
If you have kids, sell your collection b4 u die
A really good thing about Discogs - which can get around a lot of it’s valuation shortcomings - is that you can easily export the FULL details your whole collection (including all the info you’ve entered into “My Copies”) into Excel. That gives you the ability to use your own narrative and values in Excel.
I actually do the narrative and values within Discogs also, using Notes within “My Copies” to give a short narrative on value by reference to numerous sources, with my deduced value as the last entry. Within Excel the values in my Notes can be extracted into their own column to create the true value of your collection.
I update the Excel spreadsheet
every 2-3 months - not daily!
I came across a seller who claimed he had a specific 1st pressing containing the critical misprint on the back of the jacket, paid for it and received a standard 1st pressing (no misprint). He returned my money and I returned the copy. The whole transaction was a waste of time. My point is that sellers (intentionally or not intentionally) can often mis-categorize on the Discogs platform what they are selling.
I have found more and more recently… the record is not as described and they offer you a partial refund which I usually accept coz I cannot be bothered returning etc.
my choice so fair enough but it is becoming a bit of a problem
The value of an item is what someone is willing to pay for it. You can have everything Club insert and everything else but if you're asking more than anyone's willing to pay then it's overvalued. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be worth more in the proper context, But ultimately that means that the value is to you and not to the person purchasing. Sometimes we have to understand that our collections hold more value to us.
Important and Thank you for sharing Michael !!
Discogs is an extremely useful guide. But it is a guide. Nothing is written in stone as far as values. Your record is an individual copy and will need to be judged by many factors. Discogs will give you a jumping off point , the rest is up to the current owner to judge the best they can. Its all extremely subjective and unless you know who you’re dealing with can be very varied with the results.
When in doubt ask a lot of questions. Don’t assume everyone uses the same criteria you do. Esp when it comes to high end lps.
When I kick the bucket I want my records to be sold by a reputable dealer. Selling them piece by piece through Discogs is too painful. The estate will get less for them, but the dealer of choice will be able to make something too. I have a few great dealers in mind.
Just watched. Thanks for pointing these important things out, Michael. These are exactly the same issues I got with the value informations of records on discogs.
In addition, it would be great if an app existed that you could take a pic of the album and retrieve the details about said album and contents. Truth be said , most dealers would prefer less information is available for obvious reasons. Internet had a huge impact on the art business. I am definitely one of the individuals who is new to collecting vinyl, and yes, I have been taken several times, but I am more knowledgeable due to OBC.
I paid $36 US for a grail NM record on Discogs, with a previous maximum price of $25. When I received the record, it was actually VG/VG+. I contacted the seller and shared my findings and received a 40% refund. A challenge with Discogs is, it only reflects the $36 selling price and not what I ultimately paid. That would severely distort value.
I love this topic. With the OG Buyers Club and your continued discussion around the subject, I would like to see more of these videos on condition, pricing, value, etc. I’m just getting back into vinyl after 30 years and I’m finding Discogs and conversations like this indispensable. Thank you Michael
I agree with joz411no. I purchased a Blondie album, the matrix of the LP wasn't the LP the seller sent me. When I notified the seller that the matrix was for another pressing of the LP and the highest sale price was significantly less, he was terrific and refunded me the difference as I chose to keep the LP he sent. The change though was never made on Discogs. At this point there is a price identified as paid for an LP that was incorrectly listed in one pressing and not correctly identified after the fact and purchased in the other pressing.
If the adjustment (refund) was made through Discogs, it should be reflected upon the adjusted sales price and not the original for sold prices. If the refund was done outside of Discogs, then yes, the sold price would be inaccurate.
Two interesting things that happen in this situation. 1) the seller listed inaccurately, intentionally or accidentally. 2) if intentionally, the seller got away with it and really had zero ramifications, right? I bet you didn't leave neutral or negative feedback to let other buyers know of the issue because they have you 40% off. This is where I believe some sellers are intentionally taking the risk of marginally over grading knowing they will attempt to make it right if the buyer complains and that if they have to make accommodations, the buyer won't leave negative feedback. I shy away from buying records from Europe because I have been bitten too many times in this scenario. Also, they often use a UK grading standard which includes EX in the grading scale, unlike Discogs. Also, you will see sellers from Italy often using Mint for used records. This is always circumspect when Mint is held for sealed records.
@@TheJoelSwaney
I’m easily frustrated with some sellers on Discogs. They offer a M/NM record at a great price and when I receive it, it’s VG/VG+ (even after cleaning and brushing). They have 2k plus positive reviews (98%+) so it appears safe to purchase from them. When I receive the record, it is in good condition, just not what was advertised. Do I complain that I received a $12 record that I paid $12 for when the value, as described, would be $25-$30? I think the majority of buyers either, like me, don’t complain about findings or they simply don’t know what a really well kept record looks and sounds like. I mostly leave no feedback, or “record not quite as described, but still in solid condition.” So your theory may be correct on over-grading.
Another thing is, I understand that store owners are unable to play-rate every record. I’ve received a few very dirty records sold as VG+ - M. With that much dust and debris on it, how could they tell? I’ve never purchased vinyl from Europe, as the shipping is just too high, even when they sell at very low prices. CDs have been decent-to-great in my experience. Your findings appear to confirm my fears.
@@joz411no8 to be fair, some times people miss shit. I have 100% positive feedback from over 1600 buyers on Discogs. It's easy to do if you simply follow grading guidelines, pack well, and communicate. But, I have missed one here and there. It happens. Those times I do whatever the buyer wants (within reason) and cover any costs so they are out zero dollars. An inaccurate grade is on me. My motto as a record buyer, collector, and seller (I play the upgrade game) is to meet my own expectations. If I do that, buyers will be happy.
These are all great points Michael. I’m not sure there’s a lot discogs could possibly do except create a new category for “accessories” (ie, OIS, Lyric Sheet, poster, etc.) and provide a goldmine style grading system.
Otherwise as sellers we should include this and as buyers we should ask explicitly as well as ask on the grading.
If I’m going after a grail and the listing is vague, you bet I email the seller to verify matrix info, and ask if the grading applies to goldmine standards, etc.
Many times I don’t get a response, which saves me the hassle and the expense of risking it. Most times I get an honest seller that checks and updates if any info is different.
Thanks!
The problem with Discogs is sellers who do not know how to grade. Very few use a bright, direct light, and most grade their records based on what they want them to be, not what they actually are.
Your beard goes so well with your jumper. Or maybe the other way round - your jumper to your beard. 🙂
It would have been easier if every seller on Discogs could post their own pictures of their items instead of referring to a similar item in an image database, which almost never matches the item you get home. Thank you Michael for uploading all this joy!
We the people need to push the creators of Discogs to update their software and make the improvements. They have not done any changes at all.
Shame on them.
Good topic, Michael. Other important data points Discogs provides are the have and want numbers. That is, the number of people that have added this record to their Discogs collection, and the number of people that have added this record to their Discogs wantlist. For example, if 3 people have record X in their collection and 300 people have it in their wantlist, then record X is a rare and desirable record. With this information a smart seller can price accordingly, and a smart buyer can better recognize scarcity and make a more informed decision with regards to price and condition. -- Mike
Also the want list feature is used for reasons other than actually wanting to buy.
And an even smarter buyer will run a separate list not letting every seller know how bad you want something. I tend to have deeper pockets and weeker knees but I don't like to them I'm coming.
@@DorianPaige00 But they're not being auctioned. A seller puts a price on. Many people have want lists - it doesn't mean that they're going to buy and sellers know
A very important video Michael, thank you. Discogs is of course such an important tool, but in dire need of changes. I recommend possibly doing a series on them, as you have quite some influence, with such deep & valuable insights. The more people are aware (particularly those new to the hobby), the more it get's discussed, and hopefully noticed by Discogs. I have recently seen the channel 'Too Many Records' talking about Discogs issues too.
I really hope that Discogs is listening, and willing to invest in some significant improvements, to enrich our collecting, ability to acquire important information about our records, & to trade in a way that is more '2023'. At the moment their website feels ancient, and leaves so much to be desired.. A huge issue that needs to be addressed is the lack of security in a sale. It seems that scammers are hacking accounts that have high ratings, and posting fake sales. This is made all the more easy because you don't even see a picture of the records you are actually purchasing! Big problem IMHO in addition to the lack of specifics that you discussed. I don't know if they can afford such improvements, which would be incredibly frustrating, but let's hope for the best!
Too many records in a recent video said he didn't know what pressings he had from a collection he just bought. I asked him how did he evaluate and pay for it as common sense says you don't overpay for inferior pressings. G.I. at NTX vinyl says he doesn't have time to check and just eyeballs a 3,000 piece collection in 30 minutes and then makes an offer. In another interview here on youtube, Fred Cohen from Jazz Record Center said BITD an original pressing was a bonus for resellers. He acknowledged that today's consumer is more aware but I'm sure if you're not aware during the evaluation, he won't be aware.
If I was evaluating a given collection, I'd say stone mint and a % of Discogs if titles are sellable. The more desirable pressings in near mint will sell overnight. I'd take off heavy if title isn't good or missing original inner sleeve.
I recently purged my collection to effectively tighten it up, including selling some records on discogs. A modest search of recent sales was clarifying, and I learned a lot about pricing. A couple of sealed records went for more than the median value and were priced to sell, I made sure they were the lowest price being offered for that particular condition. All the rest sold for less than the median price... Because I wanted them to sell and not simply to be listed for some "wish list price".
Well done Dan! You had a plan and got it done.
The rough economy and tightening of the dollar makes many eager to sell and will put downward pressure on the market.
@@DorianPaige00 I can't see this happening in the UK
@@adotopp1865 There's an elasticity but just wait for it as the Fed is tightening the money supply again.
I have paid MORE than the maximum price for items, the sale has been reflected for a few weeks then the seller either removes the item or sale and the max price falls. So maximum value is dubious at best. Basic economics applies, the value of a thing is what a willing buyer will pay. It's a market place so "buyer beware" applies.
Thank you Michael for always informative and practical advice. In addition, there’s an overriding sense of being honest and transparent with each other as both buyers and sellers.
As with anything, the larger the data sample, the better the info. A larger sample reduces the impact of outliers.
Always enjoyable. Right on with your Discogs issues.
I like this type of videos too, they help a lot to be alert for certain types of unpleasant situations. I agree that discogs is a spectacular database but, like everything in life, it has a side that is not so good and that needs to be improved. great video
Great subject Michael, as someone who has recently got into vinyl it can be difficult to make the correct choice into what version to get. I am currently searching for a good copy of Sticky Fingerz by the Stones but don’t want to get ripped off.
One important factor that collectors often never consider is having an insurance rider for your collection! Imagine losing it. What would be the replacement value? Probably a thousand times what you’d get in a normal settlement.
A friend of mine went on vacation for two weeks and during that period his furnace malfunctioned by coming on, and staying on, for the entire period. The collection was a total write-off. He got a thousand dollars.
Get your records catalogued and insured. You’ll probably never need it, but you’ll be able to replace your collection if you do!
I have been collecting and selling records for over 35y now and I am still learning new things every day... The best advice I could give to someone getting into collecting is asking questions about what you intend to buy .. if they are a good honest seller they will answer. The main problem with Discogs is there are no photos of what you are buying so ask the seller to provide them . This always sorts out the wheat from the chaff were sellers are concerned.
🙏🙏 Great videos love the channel 🙏🙏
You are spot on! I had a couple of not so good experiences with discogs, and some good experiences as well. But it came down to inaccuracies with the condition of the record etc. I believe it should be mandatory that photos are made available for the item your selling. You will see a less subjective selling atmosphere and, it will reign in on the overpriced market of selling records.
@@mden2490 this is correct. I haven't had any really bad experience on discogs or eBay and I have bought a lot of records over the years on these platforms.
Just stick to some basic rules, 100% feedback is a must, and good communication, and that they except returns . Regarding sellers that list records incorrectly is a big problem. Take the first press solid triangle DSOTM on discogs,, I would guarantee at least 20% of them listed at this moment are not solid triangles but the slightly later press!! And that is an obvious record....
Just be careful out there like they say,,, if it's too good to be true.....
🙏👍
It's very interesting and an amazing journey that you are on which we can follow.
I was of the opinion, as maybe you were, that reissues had the benefit of better technology and more progress and so forth. Don't get me wrong, that is the case in many instances and the top mastering engineers are producing records as good as, or better than, originals (UHQRs, 45rpm versions etc) but that is just a small area.
But getting in to hunting down the best versions of every album you want and then finding good copies at fair prices is a whole other thing.
The reissue are easy - hand over the money and get a nice new record. Originals? That's a lot of work but I'm sure it is also very rewarding.
Keep us posted on your progress 😁
Thank you for your thoughtfulness on this key topic on being knowledgeable and careful when Buying or Selling on Discogs.
Thanks for putting out such important information.
Invaluable information, as always. Appreciate all that you are doing for music lovers and collectors. Discog is useful; but they are also partially responsible for the rise in the prices of records. I would strongly reenforce your policy of patients. When buying records resist the temptation of purchasing records that aren’t in very-good / excellent condition. Records that are almost not playable or look terrible are selling for way too much money. Resist. Refuse. Wait. But records that you are proud to own. Pay more for one MN record and pass on records that are VG or lower. You will pay more BUT you will be happy with your purchase and the quality of the music. Just my thoughts. Thank you again for your perspective. danke schön.
You have different options on Discogs: check the notes, ask the seller (before buying), check the discogs photos, check ebay ended auctions, check poposike…so you can fast check if a record/copy is complete or not. Some sellers forget listing the additionals or overlooked the notes, so please ask them directly. You should be aware that there are many non-professionals on the platform…. And: if you buy „analogue“ (shops, flea market etc.) you never have any additional information, so discogs mostly improve the buyer experience….
Very enlightening topic. I have trouble sometimes even finding the first pressing run listings in Discogs when so many pressing plants are used all in the first year of release. I wish they would make even that part easier to see. Am I missing something glaring me in the face saying "This is the first pressing here!"?
One of the things I've don't like is . I've bought several records that were listed incorrectly. Some sellers want to refund you in full with the record returned. Some offer a partial refund. Then you have sellers who want to argue or make excuses with no refund offered. So here's the issue I have . Let's say that I bought a 1970 OG pressing for $100. But the seller listed it wrong. It's actually a 1998 reissue worth $50. The data base on Discogs will show that I bought a OG pressing for $100 and the date I bought it. When I actually bought a 1998 reissue. That's just one scenario. Thank you 45 for the great video.
Excellent video.
Thank you again Micheal 45: great topic for discussion and experiences! My experience with Discogs has been wonderful! For an old school record/info collector it has been a dream come true to be able to shop around the world from home and not be limited to selection of your local stores. Yes, buyer beware and do your research: talk to the sellers too: the serious one are lovely to deal with and often open to price adjustments etc. Remember kids, its about the Listening! The other stuff is the cost of Great Listening! Peace and Love🙉❣
Michael I understand what you are saying. To help stop worrying and keeping record collecting in context I remind myself that there is a chance I could be burgled and have all records stolen or a fire and everything destroyed.
The item is only as good as the information provided by the seller, without standards and true evaluation of what the seller is offering discogs becomes a data source of what is available. And you the buyer need to go some where else to find someone who you establish a relationship with who will assist you in your search.
Great video Michael. Thanks
Enjoy your channel! I’ve often thought that if we could add what we paid (external to Discogs) for a record when we add it to our collection, that would help refine the actual value. For example, I bought a Classic Records numbered Berlioz at a local shop for $5, Discogs said it’s worth (or has sold for) $30. If I could enter what I actually paid in the real world, it might start over time to refine prices.
How would Discogs prevent lying about records they didn't transact?
Excellent starter conversation Michael.
Discogs can make me upset from time -to-time. The values are indeed misleadingand I appreciate you discussing this.
Thanks for the video . I have to say that the low, med and high values are a just a guide and should only be used as such. Of course there will be variables with inner sleeves, posters, signed copies etc but if these were taken onto the account it would become too complicated. It's up to the individuals to worry about these additional points. Some customers just want a good sound, others want a display copy to look great only. It's up to the individual. Also a collection is only worth what someone pays at the point of selling.
The thing I like to keep in mind is "it's only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it." I recently sold off part of my collection through eBay auctions and could get nowhere near the Discogs estimated value, in most cases. One of the reasons is that they weren't run-of-the-miss "gems," like Pink Floyd or the Beatles. There aren't that many people looking for obscure stuff even if it's "valuable" on Discogs.
I buy on ebay, but mostly from one particular seller who I have developed utmost trust in. When he puts a clean "grail" up for auction, they don't usually bring the top discogs price, but they do not go cheap. When I buy from a seller I am not familiar with, I won't give anywhere near a top discogs price. I think on an auction site that is a big consideration; how much does the buyer trust the grading ability of the seller. Also, the discogs prices are not imaginary.. They are what people actually paid for records. I think the values should be broken down into condition categories, to give a true picture. Condition is 90% of the picture. My G+ Kind of Blue 1st press is a $100.00 record. A NM copy is a $1,000.00 record, as an example.
You have to wait sometimes but interest can fluctuate. Money is tighter now and interest is going towards OG's.
Hey Michael..great video and insight..I resent Discogs..it’s a great resource to use as a database, but as a resource for establishing a record’s value, it does nothing but inflate prices..As a person who buys used albums in person only I am constantly confronted with bloated prices and when I try to negotiate, the seller quotes Discogs and refuses to budge. ❤👍Glen
One additional important aspect worth mentioning is to look at where the seller and buyer is living. Many of my most sought after records are US originals and since I live in Europe I’m willing to pay a higher price from an European seller in order to have an overall lower cost for the purchase.
In many cases, currently virtually all copies of anything not widely available is at a price above the highest quoted price on Discogs. So neither the Low, Median, or High price is any reference for a buyer; you have to resort to the age-old tension between head and heart. Strange times to some extent.
Thanks for another informative video Michael. 👍
Wonderful topic Michael. In entering my collection into Discog's database, I've noticed that with some pressings that Discog's 'Median' price is *WAY* off simply compared to what current copies are selling for. Say I enter an album in NM or Mint condition like you were saying, but because Discogs includes the last 10 sales which can span many years, the 'Median' price does NOT take into consideration that the recent value has gone way up. So, what I do in each case where there is a noticeable disparity between the 'Median' price and what that album is currently being sold for, I make a note each time stating the difference, which is usually considerably more. Sometimes even copies that are not in as good of a condition as mine is.
I started a discussion thread there on Discogs stating this, that they should NOT go so far back in the sales of an album where what it sold for years ago is completely irrelevant to what the album is going for now. This has made a stark difference in the amount of *THOUSANDS* of dollars between the stated 'Median' value and what the albums are truly 'worth' now.
Values could go back down; it all depends.
@@DorianPaige00 True, but these days it is quite a bit more the other way. I was just cataloging some of what I consider my 'run of the mill' ROCK albums, which I've had forever probably since they came out, in Discogs the other day, and I was bloody *AMAZED* that the likely very lousy Boston IV on vinyl is going for about $300! 😲 And David Bowie's Heathen was going for about $150. Man, was I shocked!
@@latheofheaven That's the bifurcation of the market where the rare's and highly desired stuff does to the extreme. Downward pressure due to the Fed tightening the money supply would probably apply the most to more common albums that have seen substantial growth over the last 5 years like Toto's 70's-80's catalog. Potential buyers will hold off as it will still be available but owners will want to push used product or new product out the door even quicker.
@@DorianPaige00 I think you lost me at 'Bifurcation'... 😁 J/K Good point!
Another good video.
Mr. Pete-------->
aging hippie
Completism The desire to possess a complete set of something (Oxford Reference). This term can be associated to an individual album in the opinions you suggest. It somewhat depends upon a buyer's view as to how it contributes to the ownership of all aspects of the product, set against the enjoyment of the music contained within. However, I appreciate your views on the impact relating to purchase/sale values. As with any treasure, it all involves some form of digging!
Detail in the listing is everything. Great sellers leave few questions. If you are not sure about the description, ask questions to justify the price high or low.
Something I've been noticing the past couple of years on Discogs....sellers don't leave very specific descriptions of VG+ records, take advantage of most people not knowing what a VG+ should be...a decent copy you can blare full volume without any loud pops or clicks. Same concept with NM! I've bought NM copies that end up having wear that indicates 20+ listens, etc.
Hello Michael, greetings from RTR Berlin :-) You make many good points which actually need a bit more discussion than time allows right now especially when it comes to original LPs and there contents. However, I do have to point out that you - and you're not the only person to make this mistake - have missed out one extremely vital point that many people are simply not aware of when using Discogs yet it is quite clearly described there. Allow me to explain: you have used the word 'medium' in your intro above and also in your discussion - this word does not exist in any part of the Discogs nomenclature. Pick any LP and review the statistics bottom right and what do you see? - the word 'median' which is NOT the same as 'medium' and which is where most people can trip up if they re not aware of the difference. 'Median' is the middle value of a range of values; this means that it is possible that somebody paid a HUGE amount for an LP sometime maybe because they simply had to have it, but it may not be an accurate indication of what that LP normally sells for. Many assume 'median' means 'medium' but it does not. Back to 'medium'; click on the 'Sell' button for the LP you just selected and Discogs will show you the 'Recent Sales History' which includes 'Average' (not 'medium' but they mean the same) and 'Median' and those two values are not the same - they will often be quite close but sometimes they differ by a large margin. When putting a value to a record or CD and you see the 'median' value you really need to check the sales history in parallel. Here at RTR each new entry is thoroughly researched in this way :-) Have a nice evening.
I understand what you're saying. However, depending where the dealer is, he might not be able to move it fast. So tying up ones cash with highly priced items that don't move very fast is not a good practice. Case in point ,I took some jazz records to sell to a dealer. He offered 1.00 per album. They weren't the most popular albums, but I thought I could get more. Looking at his inventory, he was didn't have a lot jazz- more rock then anything else and not really a huge used inventory. Took it to another dealer 20 miles away, he gave me 4.00 LP, I would of settled for 2.50. He had a variety of genres. He had a lot a foot traffic in his store at the time. He probably could move them pretty fast. I went back to buy something a couple of months later. Those same albums were gone.
great points... thx for sharing Anthony
As information about pressings Discogs is really important, but not without flaws. I have a problem with Discogs as a selling platform. As a record hunter I buy my records at flea markets, Record Fairs and Record Stores. Unfortunately, many now use Discogs for their pricing. And that is exactly the problem. The prices on Discogs are usually way too high because some sellers artificially inflame this, like "Recordsale" from Germany. It is noticeable that their offers are basically among the most expensive. A large part of the sellers at Discogs earn their living with their sales. In addition, you will find all the "flippers" who buy up limited editions and then offer them at exorbitant prices. These are not vinyl lovers. I've never bought from Discogs and that's with about 5000 records bought used.
Condition is key. I'd say most of my collection is Near Mint, and mostly selective 1st presses. I would value my collection much closer to the highest value, instead of the median value.
I agree. I have found that staying in the near mint category on Discogs is safer than fussing with someone's interpretation of very good or VG+ and yes, I pay more for NM for the better sound quality.
I have a love / hate relationship with Discogs. I wish someone like yourself would do a deep dive discussing positives and instead of using the word negative I will say "areas of improvement" From other on CZcams I get the impression that they don't care and have taken the attitude towards buyers and sellers similar to eBay.
Ich habe eine Hassliebe zu Discogs. Ich wünschte, jemand wie Sie würde sich eingehend mit positiven Aspekten befassen und anstatt das Wort negativ zu verwenden, sage ich „Verbesserungsbereiche“. Von anderen auf CZcams habe ich den Eindruck, dass es ihnen egal ist und sie eine ähnliche Haltung gegenüber Käufern und Verkäufern eingenommen haben Ebay.
The persons selling aren’t always in tune with the pressing details and aren’t necessarily aligned to the pressing which their sale is attached to which is a huge deficiency. Buyer has to ask detailed questions and require proof/photos. Sellers who won’t work with you should be avoided period. They just want to flip with little effort. As always, Buyer Beware.
I have several Discogs pet peeves. Sellers over grading their records the main one, and sellers using sub-par shipping materials that warps or damages the records. Sellers will usually work with you on a partial refund, but that never dulls the disappointment. The big change i'd like Discogs to make is to host pictures. At least I would get to see the jacket condition and that it's close to the copy I want.
For retailers to put in hours of time photographing each item would be a waste and force prices even higher. If a customer wants a picture he can always ask for it. Also having a picture of a disc doesn't really show the playing quality.
@@adotopp1865 I don't know, there's plenty of big eBay stores that do it, and their prices seem comparable to Discogs. I think that's part of the problem; some of these Discogs sellers are moving such massive amounts of vinyl, they're just kind of estimating/guessing the condition of what they're selling.
Have bought alot on Discogs and sold 100+ on Ebay over the last 5-7 years.
I DON'T buy a single item on Discogs without asking the reseller to simply recheck/ verify my purchase. It's a win/win tool for both parties. And, I log every purchase/ reseller in a few custom Discogs fields of mine so I can always check past transactions PLUS willingness to communicate. Has worked for me 98% of the time for ME.
Key, for ME, is willingness to communicate by a seller.
Someone offered me a 1500 piece collection the other day. He had worked out the Discogs Medium, 8K$ approx. I told him this meant the current Market Price was likely to be around 6k$ and I'd offer him 1.5k$, about standard for a dealer. He was quite bemused, assuming someone would give him 4k$ for them! What's noteworthy about Discogs, or vinyl pricing in general is your Kraftwerk could be listed at 100$ or 200$ and potentially sell at either amount, or not sell at either amount. So what is the current market rate?
I'd say 95% of the records I sell in my store, I know the prices for them, given the condition, but I use Discogs to alert me to any records that I have that I don't know the value of. I then look at several SOLD listings and the conditions they were listed as.
Great video. Discogs is not a great place to get a deal. Ebay is always cheaper but risky. But I bought an original UK lust for life for 20 pounds plus shipping. Just casual shopping on discogs, it would be 3 or 4 times cost. Being canadian, the shipping and exchange is always a form of prurient punishment ,one could only find in 120 days of Sodom. [I looked it up after posting and a copy near mint shipping included 240 dollars, canadian. ]
As others have noted, one of the issues with the marketplace is the lack of photos for the specific item, which is why I prefer eBay.
Luckily I could find a OG Kraftwerk Radioaktivität with the full 16 stickers!
All 3! outer stickers. Front: Radioaktivität and Hörzu. Back side: Radioaktivität.
Original inner sleeve with lyrics.
Ultra rare:
With the ORIGINAL complete sticker page - 16! stickers.
No Matrix run out!
I could go on for days about what could be better about Discogs. If I were to mention just one thing, I would like the ability to regionalize the data I'm looking at. I live in the US, and I'm only concerned about what US pressings are selling for in the US. There should be a way to filter and access sales data that only pertains to my market.
It’s a big topic Michael! Discogs is a great site for information. It can also be a little like eBay for sellers over selling poor records. I think it needs a lot of time and investment by us as consumers to do our research on every individual record we purchase to make sure we are buying the issue we want. This can at times be a headache and long process just for one record. But can also be very rewarding. We are so reliant on the seller understanding what we want and also being honest. I have a fair few records sold as mint unopened to find they are opened and even have scratches on them. It’s never going to be perfect. Maybe we should all make sure purchases that are not perfect we leave bad feedback to save others.
On a micro level, the Discogs algorithm is particularly unstable. Swings caused by USD-Euro exchange rate movements?
Not to be picky but wouldn’t
a country of origin copy of the Blondie album be the U.S. version?
One other thing that has affected sales involving the UK is the leaving the EU. Now sales tax is added to imports and exports I don't sell or buy as much overseas as I did previously.
Having trouble selling your MOFI's are we? 🤣😂🤣😂
:-) not tried yet... but probably
if im going to spend good money i want the poster and any other insert, like the black sabbath master of reality lp i see it sell for hundreds without the poster, i lucked out and found the poster in a paranoid lp for a dollar at the salvation army, but i agree with you.
You're welcome.
I just saw a video on the VC where the dude bought very rare and mint records from a major sale from a private collection, no Discogs prices Involved. My experience, I bought rare and expensive records 90pct cheaper than on Discogs this way. Ok, you buy a lot when doing these private collection sales, but you save loads of money in the end.
Of course all sellers should fill the description box with lots of things that can change the value of a record for big, I don't trust the ones that leave it blank.
Also you can't view the description box directly in the listing in phones or tablets and have to enter each page to know if there's some note. Discogs still better in computers.
Discogs is becoming the new eBay had some stincking re recent purchases described as M- arrive no better than VG then a Dark side 30th anniversary M- £130 arrives and is a 2017 EU pressing then a Dark side Quodrophinic German copy £140 from Switzerland never even arrived in all 3 cases months of battling to get my money back .
Discogs has both helped and destroyed record collecting. Some prices are totally mad there!
When buying, if you are in doubt about a seller, check their feedback. It will soon tell you what kind of seller they are.
Best pressing of vinyl is the golden era of HIFI, 72-77
Was ich mich schon länger auf Discogs frage ist: wer hindert mich daran ein Artikel total überteuert zum verkauf zu stellen und es dann selbst mit einem zweiten Konto zu kaufen? Leider richten sich viele Händler mehr auf den Höchstpreis statt den mittleren Preis und dadurch gehen die Preise immer mehr in die Höhe.
An sich ist Discogs ein tolles Konstrukt, kann aber definitiv an einigen Stellen verbessert werden.
plus plus plus... nutty -- Coin Collectors call that FINE & V. Fine in-between V.Good and Uncirculated (or next: Proof) --- 'extra pluses' only confuse things more --- & --- Near Mint or Minus Mint is ""FINE or V.FINE"" ---->> THIS IS AN EASY FIX, but not by novices.
Hello Welcome Back
👌👌
Like anything else, best not to rely on a single source (like Discogs) to appraise the value of the item. Plus, values go up and down dramatically and with regularity. Don’t be an impulse buyer, be patient and don’t be lazy with the research if you really care about collectibility value. If it’s only about the music you enjoy, you don’t have to stress about this stuff so much.
I use Discogs pricing as a guide. It's not the "end all be all" definitive record blue book.
I gotta say I've had better luck on ebay and to me it has a huge advantage over discogs by having photos! Specifically looking for certain label variations/pressings
I think you meant to type “median” value in the title of this video. You should edit it so people aren’t confused and so that your video will come up if/when people who search for videos about “Discogs median value” on CZcams 🙂
Its a price guide.. anyone can ask whatever they want... and buyers can pay whatever they want..Discogs really needs to allow pictures.4 at least.
I have different problem. Whatever i want to buy... shipping cost is around 15 euro. This is killing me :(
I understand that English is not your first language, so I think some of the words used are being misunderstood. The middle price on Discogs is MediAN not MediUM. This is a statistical term, referring to the mid point in a group of data. So if you have 125 sales of a record, the median price is what was paid for the 63rd record in order of price. This is not the same as the average price, which statistically is called the “mean” price. The mean price can be skewed by a few outliers, such as a signed copy which sells for much more than usual.
This is an important comment but I strongly doubt even native English speakers know the difference between the two.
Discogs is user based, so if you find an error concerning a Krafwerk release you can correct the error.
Like any more expensive product than usual, records need a story to get sold. 😊 Otherwise people will always aim to the average price, Michael. Experienced record sellers have stories to sell them. They don’t get in agreements very often though. This is what makes the story sell the record. I am more and more into record and recording quality but less interested about the “accessories” 🤷🏻♂️
Forget Discogs and use Record Collector instead.
What is the address to that site? I cant seem to find it.. or is it an app?
@@andresjacobsen4551 rarerecordpriceguide
@@andresjacobsen4551 www……
yes
com
I like Discogs, but I have learned to be careful. Many records are overpriced. If I want something very much to fill a gap in my collection, I will consider paying more. I go for near mint or mint sealed and I have good luck with near mint if the seller has a 100% positive rating. I don't bid in eBay auctions. I don't like to buy records through eBay. I have also had good luck with the auctions of Patrick the Vinyl Archivist because he keeps his records in best condition and very clean. But sometimes the bidding goes too high for me in his auctions. That's O.K., I know what my limits are. So, I buy new and new reissues from various sources, pre-orders, Discogs, Patrick's auctions and that's about all. I don't go out crate digging much at all, because I don't like to flip through a lot of random junk wasting time. I target what I want and get it online, in most situations.
Hello Michael.
I used to sell many years ago on eBay pre Vinyl Community but gave up because of the lack of interaction but I'll come back to that. The returned record I had in terrible condition from how I'd sent it out was the final straw. Since then I do the occasional fair in the UK but not regularly.
Discogs is a good way to list what you have for free. Anything else would be a bonus?
In most cases yes. For one reason or another I've not bought off of discogs (my wants list is two records). I must just be an 'interaction' extrovert person.
Not sure why I can't read your comments here. The comments are very interesting snapshot of record people. Maybe you blocked me or something. I am far from the most irritating person on the planet.
Sellers are the flaw because of 3 reasons: laziness, inexperience, and greed. Buyers are also at fault for not asking questions and doing research. None of this is Discogs fault.
Absolutely. Information is the key but I am quite sure that neither dealers nor Discogs are really interesting in improving the status quo. They are quite happy surfing the hype wave and making big pockets out of this fashion. I basically stopped buying vinyl on Discogs after huge failures and time consumption. I am into software development and even thought about making a application that using the Discogs API was able to offer more transparency to this market. For example, enabling the ability to upload short fragments of needle dropped music in order to have a sense of the status of every record. I know this could be overkilling for most cases but when you are talking about holy grails costing hundreds of euros this could make a difference. I am sure Michael you are thinking in similar terms so please consider my help if you need it. As I said though, I am sure that we would have to face a lot of difficulties as it is Discogs that is primarily not interested in improving things.
Great! Hope you find the time for this needed Software!🙏🏻
I never buy without contacting the dealer to discuss and confirm the condition of the item, then I haggle on the price if it's a bit over the top, most sellers are happy to reply, if not I move on.
When a seller only grades by visual inspection it is completely unreliable, beautiful looking vinyl can sound awful, again I don't buy.
Things I look out for on Discogs and ebay
- Feedback of the seller, negatives for condition not matching description is an immediate red flag, although ultra fussy unrealistic buyers can skew this.
- How many items is the seller listing, is it possible they have tested all of their items on a turntable?
- Are all items listed as Near Mint for used vinyl? I expect to see a range of gradings in most sellers listings.
- Do they also list the same items on ebay? handy if they do as now I can see pictures of the item, some sellers on Discogs are happy to send pics if you request.
- Has the vinyl been cleaned and how? if it has been cleaned then chances are you won't be improving the condition when you clean it yourself, big difference with VG+ not cleaned compared to VG+ cleaned.
A good example I had of engaging with a seller on Discogs recently was a UK seller was listing a 1972 George Piros pressing of Led Zeppelin I ( ST-A-681461 C AT/GP P) that I had been hunting down for a long time for £45 listed as VG+ for both media and cover.
I contacted him and asked him to confirm the condition and asked him what issues there were with the vinyl that prevent it from being listed as excellent condition and had the vinyl been cleaned.
He replied and said there is a warp that causes surface noise and mild crackle throughout, also not cleaned.
I replied and asked would he lower the price as it will cost me an additional £11 to send it away and have it flattened.
He offered £30, I accepted, got it flattened, cleaned it myself and I now have a near mint copy of what I consider the best pressing of LZ I and could not be happier.
As for median/medium average price, all it takes is an autographed item to make that misleading. completed items on ebay is a better option for true value.
Big Thanks to Michael for his wonderful channel and all the comments from everyone that make this place special.
Good luck with your purchases in 2023.