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Disposable Heroes 2 Rule Review
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2018
- Did you watch our dramatic Foy wargame last week, played with Chain of Command? This week, the guys at Little Wars TV review both Chain of Command and another popular rule set, Disposable Heroes 2, released in 2017 by Iron Ivan Games and Brigade Games. DH2 is a set of platoon level rules designed for skirmish actions in World War II. We score rules based on five categories, then offer a final total score at the end.
Visit us at www.LittleWarsT... to see how other members of our club scored the rules. We also encourage anyone who has played this rule set to leave your own review here in the comments.
For more on Disposable Heroes 2 you can go directly to Brigade Games at: store.brigadegm...
The author also runs a new blog for DH2 that interested players should be sure to check out here: disposableheroe...
What I’m really enjoying about your reviews are the comments about how many figures you need to play the game. It lets you know straight up whether it’s a game that you can get into quickly or need months of painting before you have the minimum requirement. Nothing worse when you’re a slow painter than picking up a set of “skirmish” rules that need 80-100 miniature per side!
Thanks, Lee. When I'm looking to buy a new set of rules one of the first questions I always have is: "Can I play this game with what I already own?" Always helpful to know what you need to get into a game! We will keep doing this in all our reviews, and there are plenty more to come, spanning a wide variety of periods and scales.
I would like a review of Bolt Action, i believe its fair to compare it to CoC and DH2, since Bolt Action is one of the biggest WW2 platoon games out there at the moment.
Very soon, your wish will be granted!
Nice review! I would love to see a full play throughs on youtube. Nothing promotes a game like seeing the game played multiple times on a table full of cool terrain and well painted miniatures. If the play throughs are done by Keith, I think that would be a bonus as well. I have purchased and become a fan of several miniatures rules set after watching some great full game videos on youtube :)
I really enjoyed the early version of Avalon Hill's Squad Leader... Platoon level infantry engagements with minimal armor support. By the time of ASL, it seemed overly complicated and too focused on tanks. Your review reminded me more of that early Squad Leader feel.
Cheers for the review guys, big fan of V1, which we have used as the basis for our WW2 games (adding card unit activation and event cards to the mix). I actually love the detail of the vehicle combat, it really gives each vehicle it's own character rather than just a generic tank type or gun type like some rules.
Sadly I don't think v2 will bring anything different to our game play (at that price it would need to paint my models for me) and the multiple activation of the same unit seems a bit gamey for my liking. But thanks for the run down 👍
Wonder if this guy is from Yorkshire? At this price. LOL I too Ken think this is really Pricey!
Sounds fun! I spent several years as a _young_ kid hanging around an active historical gaming club in Tampa, FL back in the 90s. They were about on yall's level I'd say with the craft and knowledge. I'm always a bit jealous when I see people playing a slick war game like this as it's been at least 20 years since I played.
It's never too late to come back to the tabletop and push some minis around the battlefield!
The mechanics of this game actually appeal to my inner gamer and sounds like a 21st century version of Tractics/Squad leader from the '70s.
Literally lol when Keith got his 2 seconds
I used to love board wargaming and miniatures WW2 gaming. But my dad who was a tank company commander in 1960s Europe would never play with me because he said, "That is not how it works". I didn't understand. But it became clear that half of battle is NOT knowing where your enemy is at as they move about the battlefield. Which is virtually impossible to do without a refereed board game of high complexity and hidden maps. So. I realized he was right and quit the hobby. BUT! I still enjoy peeking in on these videos. :) Great stuff. :)
It's a game, NOT REALITY.
OMG, the armor rules are exactly what I have been searching! They remind me the "old" Panzer/MBT board game rules. Ordered :)
I'm wondering whether you gents have played the venerable Crossfire rules, and whether you'd consider a review.
We play Crossfire here in the club and very much enjoy the rules. Definitely will consider a review! Absolutely.
@@LittleWarsTV Excellent, I'll look forward to that. You have a great series going here - always entertaining and inspiring to watch.
The discussion regarding tank combat being too complex is interesting, while I've never played DH2 our group has played a lot of DH1 and we loved the tank action. In fact, we use DH1 for platoon up to company level tank on tank action (ignoring infantry for the most part).
Thanks for some great reviews. Have you ever compiled a list of the scores of all games you've reviewed?
We would have to respectfully disagree that it is Brigade Games responsibility to build community involvement in DH2. The reality is quite the opposite, it is Keith's responsibility to build and support a community around his game. Take the recent example of Gaslands from Osprey. Gaslands is Osprey's fastest selling ruleset ever, but it doesn't run the community page. The community page for Gaslands is run and managed by the author himself, Mike Hutchinson, and he has done a wonderful job building and supporting a community of players. His page has no affiliation with Osprey, it is his and his alone. Colin Phillips runs his own Blog in support of Skirmish Sangin, with free scenarios, articles of interest, and rules clarifications. Sam Mustafa runs his site and community support, as a self publisher, for multiple titles of his design. Greg, as the author of Altar of Freedom you have your own site that supports and promotes community involvement where you have downloads and campaigns available for players to use. Help Keith do the same for his game, you are right there with him in the same club.
No one should care more about their own creation then the author themselves, and it is incumbent upon them to work to promote and support their "child". TFL does and outstanding job in promoting themselves and the community independent of the channels by which their titles may be resold. We would very much like to see more support for this title so that rules questions and scenario support can be freely exchanged. While yes a FB page is one means of support, it is by no means the most organized and effective format by which this type of information can be disseminated. This is something that Keith needs to do so that DH2 can build a community and mature as a brand.
In some sense, of course it's up to every rules author to support their own system--and the author of DH2 does that with two blogs. But almost every example mentioned in this comment are authors who also act as their own publisher. They make all the money (what little money there is in this hobby) from their promotion and sales, so you'd expect those authors to run their own community support. Mike Hutchinson does a great job for Gaslands--and while I don't know if he is paid a flat fee by Osprey or getting a cut of sales--maybe you've noticed that the dozens and dozens of other authors Osprey hires for their rules don't each run websites for them. Generally, whoever is making the ongoing money from selling a product promotes said product.
We've added a direct link to DH2's new blog in the video description!
It is incumbent upon the creator or owner of the IP to do so, not just in some sense, if they have any desire for success. If Brigade games is the distributor for the rules then outside of some agreed to terms they would not normally be expected to run a Community, FAQ or Blog site for the rules. If Keith still owns then IP it would have been easy for him to self publish to maintain his IP and to be profitable in the process. Self publishing has become an easy process where the author has direct control over print run size from 1 copy to 1000's. On demand publishing is competitive both on the cost and quality side for both soft and hardcover publications. These costs fits both a direct and distribution sales model which means money in the bank, and not tied up in large mass printed inventories, no matter which channel the product passes through to the customer.
While not being privy to the agreement for publication and sale of the rules that Keith may have with BG, one can not speak to the particulars and terms. For the sake of this line of reasoning if BG owns the IP and wishes for its success then its true they would be expected to manage a community. If BG are acting only as middle man for Keith, and Keith has remained owner of the IP then he bares the responsibility for supporting the community.
Let's say tomorrow you bring out a game and are ready to sell it into distribution through distributors such as ACD, Alliance or Southern Hobby, then would we, as your customer community, expect all three of those distributors to run three independent community sites for the game? No, we wouldn't we would expect the answers to come from the source no matter if it were a large game company (i.e. Fantasy Flight, GW, Battlefront, etc) or a first title independent author who just wrote their first game. Distributors such as ACD, Alliance etc. expect developers(big or small) to provide community support, and community/store support questions would be one of the first things asked by a rep if you met with one today. This is asked of both independents and large companies and if you fail to maintain that support then you'll find there are few reorders.
The previously mentioned publishers, from our first comment, are all small independents who have maintained their IP by self publishing, while still using distributors to get their products to a larger audience. As a result they have managed the growth of their communities themselves as part of their investment of passion into their project and those who have supported them by purchasing their game.
Thanks for your comments, Williamsburg. When we ask viewers in the video to "leave comments below," we mean it! FYI, Brigade Game purchased Iron Ivan Games a couple years ago and owns all the IP rights now, for both the older systems any the newer releases like DH2. I believe they are hoping to update some of the other older systems, too.
You all had as the low point, the support for the game. Perhaps your club / author, should do some detailed game mechanics, game play, vidoes, in much the same way TFL has. If you have, then send them along!
Just to confirm, is this the ruleset that was originally produced by Iron Ivan Games? DH: Coffin for Seven Brothers.
Yes, this is the follow up to that original game by Iron Ivan Games.
BTW, Brigade Games has DH2 at $40 now.
Seem to me that the reviewers were somewhat generous with their ratings. IF I were looking for a new set of rules to play at this level the ability to activate the same unit over and over again would be a big turn off. The "first fire" seems kind of odd also. I could see that it might affect an opponent's morale to a higher degree but not be more deadly. The Armor system seem totally ridicules to me. The "deployment points" just seems like a less imaginative version of the "Patrol Phase" from CoC to me.
Steve and I disagreed over the ability to activate the same unit again and again without penalty--I am not a fan--but we both very much like the "first fire" mechanic. I'll agree with you that it is odd, insofar as no other rule set has done anything like it. But after playing several games, it creates a fascinating tension where the attacker is carefully probing to avoid being torn apart by an opening volley, and the defender is trying to figure out the opportune moment to reveal himself for maximum surprise and impact. Cool mechanic to try on the tabletop. And if you're worried about overly generous ratings...just wait for a few more of these....
My "critic" is based on the descriptions of the in the review on the mechanics in the review. If they described the way the mechanics worked incorrectly I'll be happy to edit my comments. BTY I actually may have played a version of DH a couple of times but not sure they were games run by a friend of a friend and I can't remember what rules he said they were. When was DH2 published?
As Mr. Stine points out I haven't played DH2 but is sounds like much the same feeling we get when as the attacker when advancing on a opponents JOP and waiting to see if he'll deploy a unit and blast your squad. just my opinion of the ratings ;)
We encourage feedback and thoughts from everyone on the channel. Reviewing rules clearly involves some subjective opinions. DH2 was published in 2017, but the original rules go back quite a bit longer. Roughly 2004 or maybe even a bit earlier. .
Indeed. The rules have been refined over the years, which makes them fine-tuned and immensely playable. I love the amendments; fast-playing and realistic?! Doesn't get any better than that.
This is not an official page, but a place you can use to start using to support the rules. I also submitted a picture to use as the representative picture for the game. rpggeek.com/boardgame/225054/disposable-heroes-ii
I made this comment in another vid of yours, but to restate - I'd love to see you guys review/play Ultracombat Normandy.
Haven't tried this one yet, but we will add it to the list to explore!
I AM LOOKING FOR WW2 INFANTRY AND VEHICLE AND ARMOR SKIRMISH BATTLE WARGAME ? ANY IDEAS
Lots of good options we've reviewed here on the channel, including this game. But also Chain of Command, NUTS, and others. You're spoiled for choice in WW2 skirmish.
I’m a massive fan of v1, especially the infantry mechanics . But tank mechanics are awful. Then I got v2; the infantry rules became terrible. Played one game and put it away. We are back to playing v1, with the Bolt Action tank rules bolted on.
have you tried v1 and using coc tank rules?
What don’t you like The infantry mechanics?
Sounds good. Cat it be used for more modern conflicts for example in early post-colonial Africa (1960-1970?)
It most certainly could (and we have)
Love the make up did not play the game before but hope to buy it one day am from Jamaica
55 bucks for a Ruleset? As a 6-year veteran of Warhammer, I wish my rules were that cheap.
Haha Games Workshop is real money making machine, aren't they?
@@LittleWarsTV they are. God, they're good at that.
There is a Disposable Heroes Miniatures Game Fan Page on FB
Thanks! We certainly should have mentioned that. The author also recently started a blog for DH2 and we'll try to link that in the video description!
I love the tank mechanics. I just remove acquiring against tanks. Keeps it quick. Just use acquiring for infantry since they can avoid detection better.
I think the need to see units die each turn comes from 40k players who don't know better.
Hi Guys, Do Command discussion rules, not much seen in the UK.
We have played Command Decision in the club a number of times. We'll have to try to do a review of them, because they do have a pretty interesting order system.
Very interesting. I've heard of Disposable Heroes, but never did play them. As for support, there is the website The Miniatures Page which may offer some help.
Good work though 😁
Thanks, D E!
Have you guys ever played crossfire?
Many times. We love it. I am a big fan of the classic Crossfire rules and hope to do an episode with them some day.
But no games of this on Little Wars Tv.....🤔
100 pages $55....😑
You meant to say...no games of this YET. We just filmed one for a Quick Strike AAR! Not sure when it will post yet, but a DH2 game is forthcoming...
lol. poor keith
So...is/are the designer(s) fans of Metallica?
"I go, You go" is a big NO NO in war gaming. And the whole over activating a unit without any exhaustion doesn't make sense about this game either.
$30 for a pdf!
69 - Giggity