Lwaxanna could be obnoxious and difficult to deal with, but as a fictional character, I always felt she had a good heart and soul, with a strong spirit. Not indifferent from the actress that portrayed her.
Lxwanna was so good when she wasn't treated as just a comedy character. It's why I like her so much more in DS9. Where she's allowed to be something more than a running gag. The writing for her in this episode in particular is excellent.
The anger and passion in that scene was more than just acting. She was a marvelous actress that should have gotten many more parts like the one she had here. I would have enjoyed her character so much more.
I wouldn't say she was a running gag in TNG. She was an eccentric character that allowed us to explore Deanna Troi's personal life and she added humour and personality to the show. Also, she was one of a few people who wasn't scared to challenge Picard. Majel Barrett played the role very well.
@@nicholasmoore8043 Except, in this case, it is a standing tradition of the culture. They agree, overall, that it is the right and just thing to do. So a lawful good character would respect their wishes. Picard implicitly offered sanctuary at the end, essentially saying "you don't have to do this, and I will protect your right to make that choice, it's up to you." That's exactly how I'd interpret a lawful good character in this situation.
@@Kirhean I agree that Picard giving him the choice would be Lawful Good, as doing so would be violating the law of the Prime Directive to do a good act, but their culture has nothing to do with it. If we're talking D&D, which is where these alignments come from, Law; Chaos; Good; and Evil are constants. The constants don't change due to a cultural belief; forcing someone to commit suicide would be considered evil, so the culture would likely be considered Lawful Evil if most people followed and believed in this law.
@@nicholasmoore8043 fair point, d&d does run off of objective morality. I just figure that trek tends towards a more subjective view, so in universe Picard is definitely LG.
I absolutely love that the Prime Directive isn't an absolute law to any Federation citizen, it's just a rule for the military-like Star Fleet. Seems like a very keen decision, I wonder if Gene Roddenberry realized what a difference that was.
The Prime Directive is a deliberately half-vague rubbery bludgeon. Open to so much open-ended interpretation that it's basically meaningless. A useful basis for rationalizing, justifying, and officially rubber-stamping any controversial decision.
@@firstname9954 She would only be immune where diplomatic immunity has already been negotiated and granted. In the present day, diplomatic immunity protects diplomats from prosecution by foreign powers. It doesn't protect them from prosecution by their own government. As a citizen of the Federation, it will depend on the clauses of her planet's membership of the Federation whether she holds immunity (and the extent of that immunity) within the Federation.
@@firstname9954 I think of it like the American Constitution's First Amendment protecting free speech. It only bars the government from censoring its citizens, not private persons.
Exactly, it's not about whether interference is good or bad, it's about how it's a decision that's too important to be left to the discretion of individual starship captains
She had the best lines in this episode...I’m paraphrasing, but in effect, she told him “Well if that’s the way it is, Timmisson, then I’m surprised anyone is bothering to try to save your sun or your planet. Their time of resolution has come, why not let them die as well? Where is the difference, Timmisson? Tell me, because I don’t get it...”
That's missing the point entirely. Elderlies are supposed to kill themselves to let their successors take over, not because of some overarching religious reason.
Every single one of these later episodes she did was her way of saying goodbye and I love you to Roddenberry. I’ve always found that to be so important to the series itself, especially since she really took over after he did die.
I had the pleasure of meeting her once at a sci-fi show in Anaheim. She was one of the sweetest most pleasant persons I'd ever met. Speaking with her was like talking to an old friend.
With all due respect I have to correct you Majel Barrett is the queen of Star Trek the queen mother is Lucille Ball because if it wasn't for her okaying Star Trek at desilu Productions there would be no Star Trek
Lxwana could be obnoxious at times, but it's episodes and moments like this that show her heart and soul being in the right place. She was more human than humans can be. Kudos to the writers, and to whoever developed get character over the years. TNG was one of those TV series where you started out with characters who were one-dimensional at first, tough around the edges, but by the middle if the season they became refined, multi-layered, and multifaceted. It's like in the beginning it was Miles Davis picking up the trumpet for the very first time, blowing out squeaks and horrid sounds, but as time went on him turning that trumpet into the most beautiful instrument ever known to mankind. Sadly, you don't get this kind of character development anymore anywhere.
Always a superb performance from the man. He was a great actor. And from Majel as well. This and Dark Page were two of my favorite Lwaxana Troi episodes from TNG.
I loved Dark Page as well. It showed the fragility of the Betazoid psyche is. Poor Lwaxana and her late husband Ian lost their first daughter, Kestra, in a drowning accident, and repressing the tragedy caused Lwaxana to go into a coma. It was up to Deanna to help her mother.
She deserved a special Emmy or some type of award for contributions to Star Trek. This episode and the one on DS9 with Odo in the elevator are among the best acting by anyone on any Star Trek series.
She also had some bad luck with men. This guy, jean luc, odo, her baby daddy on DS9, she just could not catch a break. And as an ambassador TO the federation she is just pissed that the pesky prime directive is in the way of her love. And that custom is barbaric. She is right. If you are terminally ill and wish to pass peacefully that is one thing but to require someone in their twilight years to just kill them self is truly barbaric.
@@shyone968 Timazon brought up the point that it would be cruel to have people decide when their family members would die would be cruel. I know someone who died of lung cancer, he could have survived but he would have been unable to walk to barely move. He would not have wanted to live like that.
After a whole episode of pleading and reasoning to make them understand, his closest family shames him and his society blocks all his further research. He eventually gives in because he can't stand the pressure and alienation from his loved ones. It's my headcanon that by forcing him to die, they lost their chance to save their planet. If they'd rather let their sun die than make an exception to a draconic bloodthirsty ritual, then I can't say they care about their own survival, or about life in general.
@@busterbiloxi3833 That's a subjective opinion. I have always liked TNG more than TOS. However, upon watching TOS a lot more lately, I am starting to have second thoughts. There were many areas of TOS that were better than TNG in my opinion. Regardless, I think both of these series were good. They were both Star Trek.
One interesting thing about this episode is that Dr. Timicin’s daughter Dara was played by Michelle Forbes who then came back the following season as ensign Ro.
Because according to Memory Alpha the Prime Directive applies only to Starfleet, not the Federation as a whole. "It's *your* Prime Directive, not *mine*!" is, perhaps, supposed to be taken literally.
Lwaxana is the Betazoid ambassador to the Federation. Presuming everyone in that room is smart (and there's no reason not to), then yes, she knows full well about the Prime Directive and was therefore pleading to Jean-Luc on a personal level instead of a professional one. Given her situation, it's perfectly natural for her character to behave in such a manner. Lwaxana was just hoping Picard would disregard the Prime Directive in light of taking an action that she perceived as being a correct one to take.
The way the Federation is portrayed, most people don't seem to have ships of their own, so there's probably very little reason to extend to the prime directive to all civilians as well. Though I would think as a Federation Ambassador and someone likely to be in contact with non-federation cultures, Lwaxana Troi would have been bound by the same directive. Maybe the Federation had two separate arms of the diplomatic corps, one for internal diplomacy and one for external diplomacy?
@@ericlanglois9194 As an Ambassador she probably doesn't have to wrangle with the prime directive as much. Starfleet ships handle first contacts and dealing with most primitive civilizations. The prime directive isn't simply anything that comes up for years at a time probably. Heck as a personal example I've known people that have been in the work force longer than I have been alive and were completely unaware about labor laws. Saw a guy fired for involving a government agency to investigate their shady business practices... none of my coworkers thought anything was done wrong. I was just... flabbergasted with their complete lack of knowledge as if we lived in the 1910s or something. Company got sued, ex-coworker that blew the whistle was laughing his ass off when they kicked him out the door.
This is one of my notable TNG episodes. It tells a lot and it can relate to real life as well. Imagine if you knew someone with a different beliefs or way of life that you're not actually agree or understand. Are you going to against with it and force your thoughts? But doing so, you may look like you're disrespecting one's ways. In the end, whether you agree or not to one's way of life, you just have to respect it and take it as it is
Lwaxana could be pretty bad at times but in episodes like this she really shined. I love her promise to Picard. A rare moment that she's allowed a quiet moment.
I love how Lwaxanna finally showed some depth in this episode. In all the previous episodes, it felt like she was a woman who couldn’t acknowledge she was in a mid-life crisis, escaping her own pain by flirting with everyone. In this episode, it’s like she sobered up and came to herself.
I still tell this story to other people. Mainly because of how different cultures can be, but how it can be logical but cruel to us. But it was Lwaxanana and Timicin and his daughter Dara. Everyone made sense and I as torn, so this is full of emotions and I can never forget.
Lwaxanna always pushing her ideas on to everybody, but was always able to except ideas and concepts totally foreign to her. I think her best moment was on DS9 when her and Odo we're stuck in the lift and she took care of him in his liquid state without any judgement, just acceptance.
Plot twist... because they were holding hands when they teleported, there was a malfunction and they became a combined being like The Thing. The people on the planet were all but eradicated by this Cronenberg being, until they finally destroyed the monster, bringing final 'resolution' to both of them.
The Prime Directive is, at the same time, the most noble and the most savage principle in Star Trek. It's extremely savage in that it stops Starfleet from helping entire civilizations and worlds from becoming extinct due to a natural disaster that said civilization is not guilty of and cannot help, even though Starfleet could help. It's also extremely illogical. If a Starfleet officer witnesses someone in a life-threatening situation, surely he would help. However, if he witnesses a hundred million people in a life-threatening situation, suddenly he will deliberately not help, even in a situation where he could.
@@Apastorfield Wouldn't the prime directive, be an anti-Fascist rule? Basically, a world has its right to govern itself, the federation doesn't get to force the planet to abide by its rules.
"worlds from becoming extinct due to a natural disaster" But think about the bigger picture. What if another race, flying around the galaxy stop near our little world, saw an asteroid barreling toward it millions of years ago and decided that, because of all the dinosaurs, plant and animal life, they should stop that asteroid from impacting Earth, it would have pretty much erased the chance for humanity to exist as it does now. Sometimes.. many times, an act of nature, is what needs to happen.
Ah... Majel Barrett Roddenberrya Majel Barrett-Roddenberry, born Majel Leigh Hudec; February 23, 1932 - December 18, 2008) was an American actress and producer. She was best known for her roles as Nurse Christine Chapel in the original Star Trek series and Lwaxana Troi on Star Trek: The Next Generation and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, as well as for being the voice of most onboard computer interfaces throughout the series. She became the second wife of Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry (1969 - 1991)
@@TheDoctorProfessor That's a good question. I looked it up, and there seems to be the general consensus that no, private citizens are not required to obey the Prime Directive (which makes me wonder what's the point). That said, Lwaxana Troi _is_ a Federation ambassador, so while she may not be beholden to the PD, breaking it might cause her to lose face or otherwise find herself in poor standing, and they may choose to remove her from her position.
@@LnPPersonified I guess the intention of the prime directive was to avoid making Starfleet into some america-esque Liberation force, fighting everyone that didnt share their cultural beliefs. Looking at the Star Trek universe that'd be an endless crusade. Though to do something like tat you'd need collective power which Starfleet has but individuals dont, similar to how government orgs and military are *supposed* to remain politically neutral because their organizations influence would disturb political balance.
@Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Yeah, let's just go back to the days of eugenics. Guess you're as historically ignorant and morally bankrupt as your namesake.
it really hurt when his daughter said she was ashamed at him for choosing to live. i couldn't help but think, "do you love your home? your people? your customs? friends and family? then you can understand why someone would throw away their reputation, their chance to be buried next to their loved ones, and even their ability to be with their people all so that one day your child would be able to be buried next to you." the ending of the episode really makes you think, but.. i wish someone had made that point. he probably would have chosen to live.
The prime directive sure is convinient at times, absolves anyone of having to make any truly difficult decisions. You can just ignore it, and fly away.
That's not what was happening. In fact this is one of the few times I've seen the Prime Directive being used correctly, rather than as a cheap way to ratchet u[ tension. Only a moron would interpret it to mean that letting a population go extinct rather than helping and possibly contaminating their culture is the correct course of action. But that's the default, and it's then up to some courageous officer to 'put his career on the line' and do something that any sane and normal person would see as obvious.
@@stainlesssteelfox1 _Only a moron would interpret it to mean that letting a population go extinct rather than helping and possibly contaminating their culture is the correct course of action._ Point in case: That's what Archer thought it should mean.
As a civilian she aint bound by adhering to prime directive -and Pickard didnt have any authority to stop her even if he wanted to - especially since that was the private affair not any official starfleet related one.
I think it is a very honourable tradition, after seeing many loved ones cling to life until long after they are able to say proper goodbye's. Nothing is perfect, and no culture is. I am older now, and though I think I have many years left, who knows? Is it not in some cases better to end gracefully and powerfully, saying all that needs be said in a beautiful ceremony....or just waste away and have your loved ones one day get a phone call that they can no longer say good bye to somebody they loved. Tricky. Star Trek Philosophy at its best.
“In various roles, Majel Barrett participated in every incarnation of the popular science fiction Star Trek franchise produced, including live-action and animated versions, television and cinema, and ALL of the time periods in which the various series have been set.” -Wikipedia She also portrayed Nurse Christine Chapel in TOS. Her original role in the pilot as “Number One” was eliminated and she was replaced by Mr.Spock. “Her first appearance as Nurse Chapel in film dailies prompted NBC executive Jerry Stanley to yodel ‘Well,well... Look who's back!’. In an early scene in Star Trek: The Motion Picture, viewers are informed that she has now become Doctor Chapel, a role which she reprised briefly in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, as Commander Chapel.” In Star Trek:The Animated Series she also performed the part of a “cat girl”, the ailuroid communications officer named M'Ress, an officer who served alongside the inimitable Commander Nyota Uhura. On another note, “Nyota” and “Uhura” mean “Star” and “Freedom” in Swahili, respectively. Of course, that’s a whole other story...
One would think that the Federation diplomatic core would have a rule similar to the prime directive. What sense would it make it to have a rule stopping Starfleet from interfering in a civilization but allowing your diplomats or private citizens to.
It may apply to them under certain circumstances. Lwaxana is an ambassador from a Federation world to the Federation itself so the prime directive doesn't apply anyway. If she was reassigned to a function that deals with non-Federation members the PD very well may apply to her at that point.
Wouldn't the ambassadors be expected to break the prime directive? Because they sometimes have to negotiate new planets joining the federation and they're are certain practices they simply cannot allow a culture to maintain if they want to join.
Though I would never entertain the idea of killing myself, I certainly hope I pass before I am too helpless to reach the bathroom in time-- or other serious indignities.
her whole teleporter scene seemed off to me like she was OOC there or something cuz I always felt that character was always played/portrayed as an 'Alpha Female' type not one to ask permission... let alone shes a civi not even in starfleet so she never had to ask either. 🤔
0:51 either way, Picard *Could not* stop him from following such a practice if _he_ was intent on it. Nobody could. Foolish Lwaxanna for not realizing that.
![[TNG: Who watches the Watchers] S3EP.4, Picard and Nuria](/img/n.gif)
Lwaxanna could be obnoxious and difficult to deal with, but as a fictional character, I always felt she had a good heart and soul, with a strong spirit. Not indifferent from the actress that portrayed her.
The actress that portrayed her being Gene Roddenberry's widow, Majel Barrett.
it’s funny how so many of the characters are played by actors. You’d have thought they could have afforded the real people
I met Majel Barret Roddenberry once in Liverpool. A lovely lady in every meaning of the phrase.
Sorry, but:
That's not what indifferent means at all.
@White Rice regardless of whether I do, that's not what indifferent means. Indifference is not caring, it has nothing to do with differences.
Lxwanna was so good when she wasn't treated as just a comedy character. It's why I like her so much more in DS9. Where she's allowed to be something more than a running gag. The writing for her in this episode in particular is excellent.
The anger and passion in that scene was more than just acting. She was a marvelous actress that should have gotten many more parts like the one she had here. I would have enjoyed her character so much more.
Well said.
Agreed
I wouldn't say she was a running gag in TNG. She was an eccentric character that allowed us to explore Deanna Troi's personal life and she added humour and personality to the show. Also, she was one of a few people who wasn't scared to challenge Picard. Majel Barrett played the role very well.
This is easily the best Lwaxana episode in Trek. I enjoy "Ménage à Troi" and the one with the Millers well.
I was 31 when this episode came out and now I'm bloody 60 years of age!
RIP Redblade
You will be there yourself one day.
Redblade I don't intend on doing the resolution ritual. Come on you not that old, live it up and have fun everyday.
What's it like in 2020?
right, for the good of society you know what you have to do
Lawful Good clashes with Chaotic Good. Lol
I find those sorts of clashes the most interesting.
Lawful Good will go against an unjust law.
@@nicholasmoore8043 Except, in this case, it is a standing tradition of the culture. They agree, overall, that it is the right and just thing to do. So a lawful good character would respect their wishes. Picard implicitly offered sanctuary at the end, essentially saying "you don't have to do this, and I will protect your right to make that choice, it's up to you." That's exactly how I'd interpret a lawful good character in this situation.
@@Kirhean I agree that Picard giving him the choice would be Lawful Good, as doing so would be violating the law of the Prime Directive to do a good act, but their culture has nothing to do with it. If we're talking D&D, which is where these alignments come from, Law; Chaos; Good; and Evil are constants. The constants don't change due to a cultural belief; forcing someone to commit suicide would be considered evil, so the culture would likely be considered Lawful Evil if most people followed and believed in this law.
@@nicholasmoore8043 fair point, d&d does run off of objective morality. I just figure that trek tends towards a more subjective view, so in universe Picard is definitely LG.
I absolutely love that the Prime Directive isn't an absolute law to any Federation citizen, it's just a rule for the military-like Star Fleet. Seems like a very keen decision, I wonder if Gene Roddenberry realized what a difference that was.
The Prime Directive is a deliberately half-vague rubbery bludgeon. Open to so much open-ended interpretation that it's basically meaningless. A useful basis for rationalizing, justifying, and officially rubber-stamping any controversial decision.
@@firstname9954 She would only be immune where diplomatic immunity has already been negotiated and granted.
In the present day, diplomatic immunity protects diplomats from prosecution by foreign powers. It doesn't protect them from prosecution by their own government.
As a citizen of the Federation, it will depend on the clauses of her planet's membership of the Federation whether she holds immunity (and the extent of that immunity) within the Federation.
@@firstname9954 I think of it like the American Constitution's First Amendment protecting free speech. It only bars the government from censoring its citizens, not private persons.
Exactly, it's not about whether interference is good or bad, it's about how it's a decision that's too important to be left to the discretion of individual starship captains
She had the best lines in this episode...I’m paraphrasing, but in effect, she told him “Well if that’s the way it is, Timmisson, then I’m surprised anyone is bothering to try to save your sun or your planet. Their time of resolution has come, why not let them die as well? Where is the difference, Timmisson? Tell me, because I don’t get it...”
Based Lwaxana
That's missing the point entirely. Elderlies are supposed to kill themselves to let their successors take over, not because of some overarching religious reason.
@@ducminhduong9873 …and who is going to take over Timmisson’s work? Their suns clock is ticking…
Every single one of these later episodes she did was her way of saying goodbye and I love you to Roddenberry. I’ve always found that to be so important to the series itself, especially since she really took over after he did die.
Hopefully O'Brien remembered to engage the transporter's "don't rematerialize their hands stuck together" function...
I’m sure he narrowed the confinement beam.
I was literally thinking the same thing.
@@shadowrylander and i'm sure the Heisenberg compensators.. you know, compensated
and when they reached the planet surface it ends up looking like a tool music video.
She's the Queen Mother of Star Trek. Majel Barret did a great job in this episode.
I had the pleasure of meeting her once at a sci-fi show in Anaheim. She was one of the sweetest most pleasant persons I'd ever met. Speaking with her was like talking to an old friend.
With all due respect I have to correct you Majel Barrett is the queen of Star Trek the queen mother is Lucille Ball because if it wasn't for her okaying Star Trek at desilu Productions there would be no Star Trek
@@JohnAnderson-jy2js Wow, did I really write that four years ago? But, I really can't disagree with you.
Lxwana could be obnoxious at times, but it's episodes and moments like this that show her heart and soul being in the right place. She was more human than humans can be. Kudos to the writers, and to whoever developed get character over the years.
TNG was one of those TV series where you started out with characters who were one-dimensional at first, tough around the edges, but by the middle if the season they became refined, multi-layered, and multifaceted. It's like in the beginning it was Miles Davis picking up the trumpet for the very first time, blowing out squeaks and horrid sounds, but as time went on him turning that trumpet into the most beautiful instrument ever known to mankind. Sadly, you don't get this kind of character development anymore anywhere.
I'm surprised no one on the ship ever said "funny how Lxwanna sounds just like our computer..."
"Half a Life, or: How I Learned to Stop Laughing at Lwaxana Troi and Fall In Love With Her"
NO FIGHTING IN THE SUICIDE ROOM
@@crf1096 God Clarissas comment was good.... but this...... this is like..... wow. Seriously impressive.
I love your comment, Clarissa!!
"Permission to disembark, captain"
"Permission granted, computer"
I'm 58 and have lost a few family members and good friends in past years, and this episode always brings a tear.
This was a superb performance by David Ogden Stiers.
Always a superb performance from the man. He was a great actor. And from Majel as well. This and Dark Page were two of my favorite Lwaxana Troi episodes from TNG.
I loved Dark Page as well. It showed the fragility of the Betazoid psyche is. Poor Lwaxana and her late husband Ian lost their first daughter, Kestra, in a drowning accident, and repressing the tragedy caused Lwaxana to go into a coma. It was up to Deanna to help her mother.
She deserved a special Emmy or some type of award for contributions to Star Trek. This episode and the one on DS9 with Odo in the elevator are among the best acting by anyone on any Star Trek series.
Lwaxana was a tragically misunderstood character.
..but she is my favorite one of all.
She also had some bad luck with men. This guy, jean luc, odo, her baby daddy on DS9, she just could not catch a break. And as an ambassador TO the federation she is just pissed that the pesky prime directive is in the way of her love. And that custom is barbaric. She is right. If you are terminally ill and wish to pass peacefully that is one thing but to require someone in their twilight years to just kill them self is truly barbaric.
It is probably our future as well. In 100 years overpopulation will be a problem.
@@shyone968 Timazon brought up the point that it would be cruel to have people decide when their family members would die would be cruel. I know someone who died of lung cancer, he could have survived but he would have been unable to walk to barely move. He would not have wanted to live like that.
@@mariusraab9076 easy there malthus
After a whole episode of pleading and reasoning to make them understand, his closest family shames him and his society blocks all his further research. He eventually gives in because he can't stand the pressure and alienation from his loved ones.
It's my headcanon that by forcing him to die, they lost their chance to save their planet. If they'd rather let their sun die than make an exception to a draconic bloodthirsty ritual, then I can't say they care about their own survival, or about life in general.
3 minutes of Star Trek:TNG has more pathos and intensity of emotion than an episode or even a season of modern television.
I agree 200%. These were the hay days of television.
I'd say that the Orville is doing quite well in that regard. Little lighter in tone, but still accomplishing the same task
One second of the original series blows away an entire hour of The Next Generation.
@@busterbiloxi3833 That's a subjective opinion. I have always liked TNG more than TOS. However, upon watching TOS a lot more lately, I am starting to have second thoughts. There were many areas of TOS that were better than TNG in my opinion. Regardless, I think both of these series were good. They were both Star Trek.
@@inertiaforce7846 As opposed to Discovery, which must be from Gods know what other Sci-Fi franchise.
2:46 this is probably the only time lwaxana has ever called Jean-Luc Picard Captain
This episode makes me cry without fail, every. Single. Time. Hell just the ending of this clip was enough.
This was the episode that really made me love Lwaxana Troi.
Watched this as a kid when it was a rerun. Even as a kid, this made me cry. Made me love her character a lot.
I have loved this actress since Star Trek the original series. She was wonderful .
Dr. Timicin; Dr. Charles Emerson Winchester, III - two completely opposite characters, both played brilliantly by David Ogden Stiers.
"you don't just turn your back what's the matter with you?" That line gets me every time 😄
I really love her so much. Adorable character full of youthful and joy. ❤️
While there were many good episodes of Star Trek this one's focus on aging and society was very poignant and very well done.... and I'm 62 now.
One interesting thing about this episode is that Dr. Timicin’s daughter Dara was played by Michelle Forbes who then came back the following season as ensign Ro.
She was a stupid beotch in this episode.
I love the awkward staring at the beginning before the door chime. :D
Rest in Peace, David Ogden Stires. I will miss seeing you at the Walgreens in Newport Oregon.
Majel Barrett is gone as well.
once again i'm sucked away by this amazing acting. bravo
"I promise I won't cause any problems" Yeah, I'd believe Q or Quark more than her.
TNG was always weird this way, how does a federation ambassador not know about the prime directive?
Because according to Memory Alpha the Prime Directive applies only to Starfleet, not the Federation as a whole.
"It's *your* Prime Directive, not *mine*!" is, perhaps, supposed to be taken literally.
Jonathan Hirst but you think it would be something they would know with working with Starfleet.
Lwaxana is the Betazoid ambassador to the Federation. Presuming everyone in that room is smart (and there's no reason not to), then yes, she knows full well about the Prime Directive and was therefore pleading to Jean-Luc on a personal level instead of a professional one. Given her situation, it's perfectly natural for her character to behave in such a manner. Lwaxana was just hoping Picard would disregard the Prime Directive in light of taking an action that she perceived as being a correct one to take.
The way the Federation is portrayed, most people don't seem to have ships of their own, so there's probably very little reason to extend to the prime directive to all civilians as well. Though I would think as a Federation Ambassador and someone likely to be in contact with non-federation cultures, Lwaxana Troi would have been bound by the same directive. Maybe the Federation had two separate arms of the diplomatic corps, one for internal diplomacy and one for external diplomacy?
@@ericlanglois9194 As an Ambassador she probably doesn't have to wrangle with the prime directive as much. Starfleet ships handle first contacts and dealing with most primitive civilizations. The prime directive isn't simply anything that comes up for years at a time probably. Heck as a personal example I've known people that have been in the work force longer than I have been alive and were completely unaware about labor laws. Saw a guy fired for involving a government agency to investigate their shady business practices... none of my coworkers thought anything was done wrong. I was just... flabbergasted with their complete lack of knowledge as if we lived in the 1910s or something. Company got sued, ex-coworker that blew the whistle was laughing his ass off when they kicked him out the door.
Man, the ship's computer can sound downright hostile at times!
how resolute: "Well, it's YOUR Prime Directive, not MINE!"
I think this is one of the exceptions where Lwaxana was actually a likeable character.
This is one of my notable TNG episodes. It tells a lot and it can relate to real life as well. Imagine if you knew someone with a different beliefs or way of life that you're not actually agree or understand. Are you going to against with it and force your thoughts? But doing so, you may look like you're disrespecting one's ways. In the end, whether you agree or not to one's way of life, you just have to respect it and take it as it is
If that person is making the choice for themselves. If it's something being forced upon others unwillingly, then absolutely not.
Lwaxana could be pretty bad at times but in episodes like this she really shined. I love her promise to Picard. A rare moment that she's allowed a quiet moment.
Such a woman of good heart and soul.
Love the look on Picard's face, when he's finally seen the 'real' Ms. Troi
Gene Roddenberry had to be one of the gentlest, most thoughtful men on the planet. We're luck to have gotten to know him a little through his work.
gene only was involved with the first series
@@jorgevasquezjr391 Not so, he wrote and produced the first year of STTNG and consulted until his death in '91.
What he thought about was SEX. A lot
I love how Lwaxanna finally showed some depth in this episode. In all the previous episodes, it felt like she was a woman who couldn’t acknowledge she was in a mid-life crisis, escaping her own pain by flirting with everyone. In this episode, it’s like she sobered up and came to herself.
Star trek is just a story about majel Barret's love life over 60 years set to a sci fi back drop
was.... that the same actor (the doctor) who played Charles Emerton Winchester III on M.A.S.H?
Yes.
Yep, David Ogden Stiers. RIP.
And Cogsworth in Beauty and The Beast.
The evil mad scientist in Lilo and Stitch. etc.
Don’t forget Mr. Mallered
One of my favorite episodes. Majel Barret should have gotten more episodes. She was brilliant here.
I still tell this story to other people. Mainly because of how different cultures can be, but how it can be logical but cruel to us.
But it was Lwaxanana and Timicin and his daughter Dara. Everyone made sense and I as torn, so this is full of emotions and I can never forget.
0:27 hearing that reminded me how i just watched midsommar recently... and now i'm remembering the cliff scene.
Star Trek's version of "Logan's Run."
Lwaxanna always pushing her ideas on to everybody, but was always able to except ideas and concepts totally foreign to her. I think her best moment was on DS9 when her and Odo we're stuck in the lift and she took care of him in his liquid state without any judgement, just acceptance.
Damn I know I typed accepted.
Plot twist... because they were holding hands when they teleported, there was a malfunction and they became a combined being like The Thing. The people on the planet were all but eradicated by this Cronenberg being, until they finally destroyed the monster, bringing final 'resolution' to both of them.
Wasn't that the one where Rick and Morty replaced their dead selves from a parallel universe?
Scenes like this are what made TNG great. Good TV or cinema should always make you at least a little bit uncomfortable.
Wait, did they say Kaylon?
After the most recent of "The Orville...."
*Nervous tugging of shirt collar*
I had to double check when i heard it but its a different spelling, Kaelon.
Was it their bones that lined the catacombs of their planet? Sounds like they didnt have to do much slaughtering... just wait till they all turned 60!
The Prime Directive is, at the same time, the most noble and the most savage principle in Star Trek. It's extremely savage in that it stops Starfleet from helping entire civilizations and worlds from becoming extinct due to a natural disaster that said civilization is not guilty of and cannot help, even though Starfleet could help.
It's also extremely illogical. If a Starfleet officer witnesses someone in a life-threatening situation, surely he would help. However, if he witnesses a hundred million people in a life-threatening situation, suddenly he will deliberately not help, even in a situation where he could.
It's important to understand the fascist nature of the federation.
@@Apastorfield Wouldn't the prime directive, be an anti-Fascist rule? Basically, a world has its right to govern itself, the federation doesn't get to force the planet to abide by its rules.
@@OmegaII I'm refering to the federation itself. The prime directive is basically just dont fuck with other nations
"worlds from becoming extinct due to a natural disaster"
But think about the bigger picture. What if another race, flying around the galaxy stop near our little world, saw an asteroid barreling toward it millions of years ago and decided that, because of all the dinosaurs, plant and animal life, they should stop that asteroid from impacting Earth, it would have pretty much erased the chance for humanity to exist as it does now.
Sometimes.. many times, an act of nature, is what needs to happen.
@@Keijikrall nice cartoon image, opinion discarded.
Such a beautiful love story!
Ah... Majel Barrett Roddenberrya
Majel Barrett-Roddenberry, born Majel Leigh Hudec; February 23, 1932 - December 18, 2008) was an American actress and producer. She was best known for her roles as Nurse Christine Chapel in the original Star Trek series and Lwaxana Troi on Star Trek: The Next Generation and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, as well as for being the voice of most onboard computer interfaces throughout the series. She became the second wife of Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry (1969 - 1991)
Such a deep, beautiful episode!
A single suitcase? The Enterprise computer certainly travels light.
Prime Directive: She fully plans to go down there and give the man a reason to live, the Captain knows this as well.
"Well, it's your Prime Directive, not mine."
You're Betazoid, and if I'm correct, Betazed is part of the Federation, so yes, it is yours.
Do people who aren't members of Star Fleet have to obey the Prime Directive?
@@TheDoctorProfessor That's a good question. I looked it up, and there seems to be the general consensus that no, private citizens are not required to obey the Prime Directive (which makes me wonder what's the point). That said, Lwaxana Troi _is_ a Federation ambassador, so while she may not be beholden to the PD, breaking it might cause her to lose face or otherwise find herself in poor standing, and they may choose to remove her from her position.
@@LnPPersonified I guess the intention of the prime directive was to avoid making Starfleet into some america-esque Liberation force, fighting everyone that didnt share their cultural beliefs. Looking at the Star Trek universe that'd be an endless crusade. Though to do something like tat you'd need collective power which Starfleet has but individuals dont, similar to how government orgs and military are *supposed* to remain politically neutral because their organizations influence would disturb political balance.
No. It's a military regulation. She is not in the service.
@@wrlord The diplomatic corps may have something similar to the PD, however, as @Pokerface mentioned previously.
"Number One, will you please..... ?"
" _sigh_ Right away, sir."
At least he lived twice the life of those in the Domed City (Logan's Run)
why the hell am i tearing up for charles emerson winchester of all people!
Beacause he can be an ass but i would rather him hold the sculpile then frank berns
Lwaxanna - You might be the Captain, but I've been ALL UP IN HERE since day 1
I loved this episode.
It was just so sad but very interesting. I would have loved to have seen Troys mom happy and witty someone that gets her. 😔
Lwaxana was right to oppose the ritual. If no one speaks out about things that are wrong, they will never change.
@Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Yeah, let's just go back to the days of eugenics. Guess you're as historically ignorant and morally bankrupt as your namesake.
she was right to speak out... but you can't force a society to change if they don't want to
@@bobdonda Change comes one mind at a time, one ear hearing one voice speak the truth.
If you're gonna go, go with a smile! 🤪
it really hurt when his daughter said she was ashamed at him for choosing to live. i couldn't help but think, "do you love your home? your people? your customs? friends and family? then you can understand why someone would throw away their reputation, their chance to be buried next to their loved ones, and even their ability to be with their people all so that one day your child would be able to be buried next to you."
the ending of the episode really makes you think, but.. i wish someone had made that point. he probably would have chosen to live.
"I promise I won't cause any problems down there"
*proceeds to dance naked on a table*
idk, holding hands in a transporter sounds... risky
TFW your old phone had the TNG door chime as the SMS tone and you still jump to check for a message just before Picard says "come"
My old phone had the ST:TOS communicator tone/beep.
And yes, it was a flip phone. 😁
@@guarddog318 hehe cool
Once again, it's all about the Prime Directive.
The Prime Directive = "There is no emotion; There is only peace".
People like this annoy me to no end. Because it offends your sensibilities, it doesnt grant you the right to interfere.
Mr obrian better make an appearance on the new picard startrek series
this and the first star trek aged well still outstanding shows
The prime directive sure is convinient at times, absolves anyone of having to make any truly difficult decisions.
You can just ignore it, and fly away.
That's not what was happening. In fact this is one of the few times I've seen the Prime Directive being used correctly, rather than as a cheap way to ratchet u[ tension.
Only a moron would interpret it to mean that letting a population go extinct rather than helping and possibly contaminating their culture is the correct course of action. But that's the default, and it's then up to some courageous officer to 'put his career on the line' and do something that any sane and normal person would see as obvious.
@@stainlesssteelfox1 _Only a moron would interpret it to mean that letting a population go extinct rather than helping and possibly contaminating their culture is the correct course of action._
Point in case: That's what Archer thought it should mean.
Now this is a case where the Prime Directive is actually being applied in the way it's meant to rather than as an excuse for doing nothing.
This idea was taken straight out of the movie Logan's Run in which people lived in an enclosed city and were put to death when they reached 30.
As a civilian she aint bound by adhering to prime directive -and Pickard didnt have any authority to stop her even if he wanted to - especially since that was the private affair not any official starfleet related one.
I think it is a very honourable tradition, after seeing many loved ones cling to life until long after they are able to say proper goodbye's. Nothing is perfect, and no culture is. I am older now, and though I think I have many years left, who knows? Is it not in some cases better to end gracefully and powerfully, saying all that needs be said in a beautiful ceremony....or just waste away and have your loved ones one day get a phone call that they can no longer say good bye to somebody they loved. Tricky. Star Trek Philosophy at its best.
Rarely was their a guest star on TNG that was better than Patrick Stewart: David Ogden Stiers was that rare exception. Brilliant, subtle, dignified.
“In various roles,
Majel Barrett participated in every incarnation of the popular science fiction Star Trek franchise produced, including live-action and animated versions, television and cinema, and ALL of the time periods in which the various series have been set.”
-Wikipedia
She also portrayed
Nurse Christine Chapel in TOS.
Her original role in the pilot as
“Number One” was eliminated and she was replaced by
Mr.Spock.
“Her first appearance as
Nurse Chapel in film dailies prompted NBC executive Jerry Stanley to yodel ‘Well,well...
Look who's back!’.
In an early scene in
Star Trek: The Motion Picture,
viewers are informed that she has now become Doctor Chapel,
a role which she reprised briefly in
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home,
as Commander Chapel.”
In Star Trek:The Animated Series she also performed the part of a “cat girl”,
the ailuroid communications officer named M'Ress,
an officer who served alongside the inimitable
Commander Nyota Uhura.
On another note,
“Nyota” and “Uhura” mean
“Star” and “Freedom” in Swahili,
respectively.
Of course,
that’s a whole other story...
Interestingly enough, she was also in Babylon 5 in one episode.
Wpuld have been great where theres an end credits scene where they transport to the planet and immediately transport to another ship to escape
He was a great MASH surgeon in Korea.
That moment when a decorated Federation diplomat is promoting the violation of the Prime Directive. Way to go, Lwaxana.
A salute to the late great David Ogden Stiers.
So so sad to find love and have it ripped away from you.
One would think that the Federation diplomatic core would have a rule similar to the prime directive. What sense would it make it to have a rule stopping Starfleet from interfering in a civilization but allowing your diplomats or private citizens to.
It may apply to them under certain circumstances. Lwaxana is an ambassador from a Federation world to the Federation itself so the prime directive doesn't apply anyway. If she was reassigned to a function that deals with non-Federation members the PD very well may apply to her at that point.
Wouldn't the ambassadors be expected to break the prime directive? Because they sometimes have to negotiate new planets joining the federation and they're are certain practices they simply cannot allow a culture to maintain if they want to join.
Punch The Keys For God's Sake! *transports people to the planets surface* You're the man know, dog, O'Brien.
"you do not have to do this..." (facial expression) I bet he was making it all up to get away from Troi!!!!!
Though I would never entertain the idea of killing myself, I certainly hope I pass before I am too helpless to reach the bathroom in time-- or other serious indignities.
0:54 is the 24th Century version of the shocked Pikachu face
What a Woman.
I noticed that when her script is more serious, her neckline is raised. Hmm...
I mean, people do dress more formally for serious occasions
... now THATS love. 🥺
her whole teleporter scene seemed off to me like she was OOC there or something cuz I always felt that character was always played/portrayed as an 'Alpha Female' type not one to ask permission... let alone shes a civi not even in starfleet so she never had to ask either. 🤔
Holding hands on transporter platform is dangerous.
It's WINCHESTER!!!
Indeed.
The Third!
It's Oberoth!
Major Charles Emerson Winchester the third to be exact :-)
that was my first thought.
0:51 either way, Picard *Could not* stop him from following such a practice if _he_ was intent on it. Nobody could.
Foolish Lwaxanna for not realizing that.