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Daytona USA Arcade PCB repair - 3D vector graphics issues
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- čas přidán 17. 03. 2018
- This is a quick tips video which explains how to fix your Daytona USA Arcade PCB (Sega Model 2 1994) in case it suffers from the typical 3D vector graphics issues. Enjoy!
Parts required for the fix:
6xTC518128CFL-80
1xAT27C040-15RC burned with file "MPR-16312.14" from archive "zerogunaj.zip"
Daytona USA theme by Takenobu Mitsuyoshi.
I am SOOOOO excited about your AMAZING video. This is the exact problem with myDaytonnnnaaaa! All of my new chips have come in, and my programmer. I cannot find the suggested link to burn the file. PLEASE rescue me.. you’ve gotten me this far.
Wow, this will save me many months of work! thank you.
I have the same issue with 2 separate virtual on boards. Thank you for this video. hopefully I can get them both running, if not just 1
Feel free to upload a longer video that details your investigation of the graphics board. That would be fascinating.
Thanks a lot for sharing. Always an very interesting video.
Thank you!
Awesome! I’m gonna try this fix, one of my boards is doing similar things, but is also losing textures to the polygons. Thanks for this info!
You are welcome! Please keep us updated and tell us whether you managed to fix your issues! It would be awesome if this video actually helped someone! ;-)
the hardware is heat sensitive had a fan go out on one cab at work and after it had been on a while it would have graphics issues badly but we replaced the dead fan and added a second one and cleaned out all the dust and crap, so far so good
Great tip there, man! This is the sort of thing you don't see a lot of on youtube. I'm pretty sure it's going to help someone out there. How about putting a dust filter on that fan? I'm surprised at how many arcade machines don't do this.
Thanks! I hope that this vid helps other people/saves faulty daytonas from ending up in the bin. Some sort of a filter would be a great idea! I wouldn't know what to use though - it should keep the dust out and at the same time not add too much resistance to the airflow.
On later Sega machines the fans actually were turned around in order to suck the hot air out of the cage. So if a filter can be put across the remaining ventilation holes then it should hopefully stop most of the dust getting inside.
If I ever get some working stacks then I will be putting more fans around the cage to try and keep temperatures down.
Thanks for the info, I too have since bought some bad Daytona boards and managed to repair them with this information. I also had an issue where certain textures had a grid of black or white dots running through them. This was due to one of the texture SRAM chips being bad in the set of 16 in the corner. On one board the dots would appear at certain distances from the camera but the texture would be fine up close, I think the texture ram is split into four banks of four chips, each chip holds one pixel in a 2x2 array of pixels, and each bank can have a separate texture lookup, say for different mipmap levels. Also I had a Sega Rally with random missing polygons and some polygons 'getting stuck' in 3D space, this turned out to be the middle SRAM in the set of three chips which are to the left of the 4x256k chips in your diagram. When polygons appear to jump in and out of perspective, that is definitely the lookup table held in the 3xOTP roms, I had to replace two of those to fix an issue.
great great Vid! i have Daytona board that broken like this video. i have to go to repair. thank you
Another outstanding video. Extremely fascinating and helpful that you point out which parts of the board are responsible for each function. Cheers!
This time is was more of a retrospective report rather than a prospective step-by-step repair. But I think it turned out ok! Glad you like it, thanks!
I was thinking that it was a case that the bad RAM was acting as a buffer to store the 3d co-ords when drawing the road and environments (reads don't match the writes). Time to have a look through the MAME source and check that colour map of the PCB you did so I can learn some more about the architecture. Thanks!
Yes, I absolutely agree!
Make more video's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your explanations are fantastic, I have learned a lot!!!!!!!!!!
Just restarted with a new vid! Enjoy!
we had a cab at work start failing all we did was clean it out and replace the fans even adding some extra and it seemed to fix it for now as the parts in this cab are very heat sensitive and the fans tend to die without people knowing so there is bad airflow so pwople do remember to check the fans and clean out the dust before it gets to the point shown in this video
Excellent video, great information! Now only if someone would do the same for Sega Outrun boards!!
Thanks! Maybe Outrun will be covered at some point. It's a classic game that I really would like to get.
Fantastic video. Do you have any advice for disassembling the board stack? Are there any specific precautions to take when doing this or is it quite simple?
Many years ago an arcade I frequented had a 4-player Daytona setup, and player 4 had a similar issue. The game played properly, but views 1 and 2 wouldn't work - you would only see the background. You had to play the game on view 3 or 4!
I saw a sega super GT have that same issue and it was in black and white too!
Great video! I recently picked up a twin in terrible condition that I’m trying to fix. I’ve got one side working but on the other side of the game won’t boot. By exchanging some boards I found out that the problem is in this bottom board for the graphics. Do you have a suggestion which part of the board might cause that the whole game won’t boot? I have no LED lighting up in the cpu with this board connected.
Thanks!
Excellent Instructions. will it work the same way on my sega rally 1 twin? there i have the same issues on one side. Rgds Rainer
Thanks
thank you
Thank you for the great video!
Could you share where you bought the 27C040 from?
I can't find any 27c040 in SOP / SOIC 32 socket.
Bought 5 pcs. in reel tape from the biggest China online market and they turned out to be used. Working but already programmed. Any help would be appreciated.
My board has vector glitches. Took the cage out and the fan has packed in. The chips are caked in dust!
Is there a cheap way to burn files onto the chips? Thanks
I've just had a PCB generate errors like you have described.
My issue started with the graphics flickering so you could see the background underneath the 3D polygons, it's progressively getting worse and it's starting to glitch more now.
I will buy the chips and update you on the result.
Thank you very much for sharing this important information!
By the way, where did you get your lovely chrome shifter knobs?
Your twin machine looks great!
icuk7 The way your pcb behaves sounds that this fix is exactly what it needs! Please tell me if you were successful. Thanks for the compliments on my daytona, it actually was a lot of work to get it look that nice again. I got the chrome shifters as replacement part on ebay. They show up from time to time.
Yes! After being so sad when the glitches started, I'm now looking forward to trying to repair this stack.
I took a movie of my issues, you can see it here:
czcams.com/video/cSSx3ypFYO8/video.html
I know exactly how much work it takes to get a cab looking like yours. If someone has never restored a machine they really have no idea how dirty a job it is. I feel dirty for days after cleaning a project machine.
Thanks again for this excellent information.
icuk7 Looked at your vid. Your board has some vector issues I think. So you should go ahead and apply the fix. Unfortunately Also there might be some additional graphical glitches going on. All vector graphics appear kind of transparent also maybe theres some texture issues too... :-( I actually would have sone ideas how to fix these issues ss well.
Where do you happen to be located? US? Europe?
I'm located in the UK.
Strange things happen to graphics when ram goes bad, so I'm hoping replacing the chips you suggested works. If not then I'm not sure what to try next.
If there are still some glitching issues, then if it's possible, I hope you can give me some further suggestions.
Thanks.
Hi Doktorzett,
I have an update for you.
Replacing the 8 ram chips solved the glitching issue, but we reused the original eprom chip. :-)
My friend did the soldering as I'm not experienced enough to tackle surface mounted chips.
Initially we thought replacing the chips didn't work as there was no graphics at all, only background bitmap. But he removed the chips and resoldered the 8 ram chips and 1 eprom and it came back to life.
Thanks again for your useful video my friend.
I'm sure your video will help many more people over the coming years.
Thanks.
The two Daytona pcbs I have in my Daytona twin have perfect 3d gfx and then all of a sudden all are gone?! And after a while they come back would this be the ram? seems strange on both of them its the same problem.
How do I burn to a ic32? Can only find ones that go up to ic16?
How much would it cost to have this board repaired. I'm having the exact same glitching issues
I don't believe heat can cause all this troubles because if you look in to the datasheet of the TC518128CFL-80 for instance, it dissipates only 330mW. If they are heating up is because they are oscillating. In general the cause might be some decoupling ceramic capacitors near this components or electrolytic capacitors(e-caps). E-caps has a life span of 10 years tops, after that fluid inside start to dry out and internal resistance increases changing the characteristics of the component and it will start to heat up.
What I do is to replace e-caps with polymer capacitors, polymer is a dry component so this parts will last way longer than e-caps, they have a very low internal resistance but they are a bit expensive.
If the dust does not cause the trouble, then how do you explain then that only the dust covered chips are dying while there are dozens more of similar ram chips on the boards?
@@christophzett My mistake, I meant to say heat not dust. Dust plus condensation can create a conductive sludge and short it out the component.
I have replaced all the ram on the video board and opl chip next to the ram I'm still having issues with graphics
Daytona USA: Quake edition
Quake 1996 is famous for having weird polygon based animation.
Arcade games use PIA chips and PROM chips for what?
Question: How do you know when the PCB board is failing? I just has one side of the twin pcb serviced with new parts eye lids etc. Im worried the other side will go out next. I cleaned the working board the best I could
From my experience there are not really any early signs which indicate that a failure is near. By cleaning the pcb you did everything you could to prevent the problem from occurring.
I realize this is an old video but hoping you’ll see the comment…are you able to share which sop32 adapter you’re using with your programmer? Thanks!
Well it was an adapter from china I picked up from ebay a while ago.
Where can I find that diagram that shows what each section is for? That's a handy reference.
That is not really available anywhere and I don't have more than what you see in the vid. I made that diagram when I tried to find out what chips are doing what and what is connected with what on the graphics pcb. I removed lots of chips and checked the resulting symptoms. At the end I found the ics responsible for storing the 3d vector data and the 3d graphic transformation processors and their attached eproms (which btw contain some sort of simple tables for either depth sorting or for the 3d transformations) in the top left of the graphics pcb.
That's pretty cool. I have about 20 broken sets of these boards laying around, but I don't have any SMT rework equipment yet. I've known about the RAM chips, but haven't found a good source for buying them yet. But the most frustrating part is not being able to probe the video board with power applied, since they don't seem to make 96 pin DIN-41612 extender cards.
Exactly, it is practically impossible to live-troubleshoot this. Even if you would make 41612 extender boards for yourself (and I was about to do that) you would still run into the problem that the pcb stack is connected sideways to the filter board in the metal cage which then would not fit anymore so you would have to build an adapter for that, too. The ram chips are available on ebay from china. But them alone wont cure your boards completely most of the time - the eprom is also an important part of a full fix.
Hi, where did you source the eprom from?
Thank you.
icuk7 Just do a google search for the zip file. Look in the description of this video for the file names.
Ah yes Melted USA is my favorite arcade game
Great video. Do you offer board repairs if I were to send my Daytona video boards to you? @doktorzett
Thanks! But no sorry I don't offer board repair services - I usually lack the time.
Question if i had a spare board and took a ram chip off that could it be used if its the same type and model chip and also is it mandatpry to replace the eeprom if i use a ram chip from another dead daytona board
I was actually able to fix some boards by only replacing the rams. So I think it could be worth a try. Its a bit of a game of luck because it would be very very difficult to check which ram chips are bad and which are not (on the donor as well as the recipient board). But if you know the donor did have no graphical issues and died from some other cause I would go for it I think.
@@christophzett thanks for the reply my issue is that it has the wierd flicking graphics and bad camera angles as well as on the tgb test ic 47 came up as bad could just replacing that chip fix it or would it be worth replacing sets of them untill the board is functioning properly
You fix game for your customers or for you?
Do you sell boards?
I fix games for myself and like to share my "adventures" at the same time. I don't usually sell boards.
Left unit is hard mode. Easy fix.
Hallo würdest du mir das bitte machen gegen Bezahlung ?
Can I pay you to repair mine?
Glitchtona!
Do you can repair my breakout PCB?
The board is resetting.
I have no fluke.
Just analog scope.and poor logic analysis that need repair.
Garbage in the screen
Well I can try... is it an original breakout from atari?
@@christophzett
Yes original 1978 Atari
@@azariayehezkel9064 What is wrong with the board?
@@christophzett
Garbage in the screen
@@christophzett
m.czcams.com/video/-v-aCguvJVA/video.html
Look this repair.
I follow this repair.
Replace cpu replace the d.flip flop.
No change
Haha it looks liek the car got REALLY damaged
every body is a computer engineer these days.