What Makes A Good DECK BUILDING Roguelike?
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- čas přidán 12. 06. 2024
- Deckbuilding Roguelikes are a fairly new sub-genre of games within the Roguelike community that has been getting very popular in the last few years. They have become one of my favorite ways to play Roguelikes and Roguelites.
In this video, we dive into the design of this genre, dissecting its essence from its traditional Roguelike roots and nature of its randomly generated mechanics and exploring topics such as diversity, card design, visuals, and gameplay.
Whether you're a roguelike aficionado, turn base enthusiast, developer, or curious observer, this video brings you an unparalleled journey into the heart and soul of a genre that thrives on its complexity, unpredictability, and limitless potential. Hit that play button, join the discussion, and let's celebrate the magic that makes Deckbuilding Roguelikes a new and unforgettable experience!
=== CHAPTERS ===
0:00 - Intro
0:47 - Chapter 1: Diversity and Unique Mechanics
06:11 - Chapter 2: Out of Combat Gameplay
08:53 - Chapter 3: Card Design
19:44 - Chapter 4: Themes and Visuals
23:11 - Outro
=== GAMES SHOWCASED ===
Here's your list in alphabetical order:
Across the Obelisk (2021)
Alina of the Arena (2022)
Arcanium (2020)
Astrea (2023)
Backpack Hero (2023)
Balatro (2024)
Caves of Qud (2015)
Cobalt Core (2023)
Dead Cells (2017)
Deck of Ashes (2019)
Deck of Ashes (2020)
Dream Quest (2014)
Dungreed (2018)
Griftlands (2021)
Hans of Fate 2 (2017)
Have a Nice Death (2022)
Hearthstone (2014)
Inscryption (2021)
Into the Breach (2018)
Loop Hero (2021)
Monster Train (2020)
One Step from Eden (2020)
Peglin (2022)
Pirates Outlaws (2019)
Repetendium (2022)
Rogue (1980)
Rogue Book (2021)
Rogue Legacy (2013)
Royal Booty Quest (2023)
Slay the Spire (2019)
Spell Rogue (2024)
The Binding of Isaac (2011)
Vault of the Void (2020)
Vagante (2014)
Wildfrost (2023)
=== MUSIC USED ===
Wildfrost | Spirit Call
Astrea: Six-Sided Oracles | Tainted Reef
Astrea: Six-Sided Oracles | Stellarium
Peglin | ForestSlay the Spire | The City
Balatro | Main Theme
Wildfrost | Snowdwell
#Roguelike #DeckBuilding #GameDevelopment - Hry
Thanks for watching! Please consider liking and subscribing if you enjoy this kind of content, it's free and really helps the channel! If you are a fan of Roguelikes and Roguelies, check out my ROGUELIKE TIER LIST where I rank over 80 different roguelikes/lites. Look forward to a new tier list coming very soon where I review an other 30+ games!
czcams.com/video/5k_-k4X90ao/video.htmlsi=xxb5IVzC22dpwbh0
As a huge roguelike fan I absolutely love your content and think you have a great way of breaking things down in an interesting way :) keep on being amazing!!
My thoughts exactly, I love and play them all the time so it’s really nice to hear someone else share my passion and express it in ways that exceed any other CZcamsr out there
I'm actually working on a deckbuilder roguelike and your videos help me a lot !
Still, it's hard to know if a concept is original enough or not, I feel game like Balatro and Wildfrost are really innovative !
I commend you. & I definitely feel you, finding originality is difficult in an age of ubiquitous games. 🎉 Keep up the good work. 😊
I'd love to hear about the concept. Even if it's been done before, you can look at where the existing games fall short and improve on them, or steal bits that you like to make yours better.
For the love of all that is holy please don't just look at other deck building rougelikes for inspiration entirely
Expand your knowledge into things like MTG, Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, Cardfight Vanguard
TBoI 4 Souls
Irl TCGs HAVE to be unique or else they just get ignored to look to them and see Why people play these and how they constantly have to create new mechanics/gimmicks that work around the core mechanics the games revolve around. This is why Slay the Spire works. Everything works fully with the base and it's the reason why a lot of the character/deck mods for it don't work or feel that good
In some way, I take inspiration everywhere. I don't like to just copy a concept... Still, it's hard to be unbiaised.
I will post something on reddit but I'm not an extrovert guy, so giving news is not natural for me. Still, I'm surprised how much the genre seems to please people !
On the topic of deckbuilders and mechanical diversity, a game I don’t see on your list (justifiably given it’s not a roguelike at all) is Library of Ruina. It is an entire sci-fi dystopia RPG with so many disparate influences, built on the back of incredibly tight resource management, deck building, and card pools (each character has 9 total, so there’s incredibly little RNG upfront), so much so that the core challenge of boss battles in the game is constructing a deck that can break through a complex web of one-off mechanics.
It can be so complicated and intricate that it can fully break away from the roguelike genre entirely and make deck construction alone the core mechanical conceit of the game.
Rogue Voltage has an interesting way to determine the rarity of the items you would get after each combat: the faster you finish the encounter, the rarer the trophies. take your time, and you will get common items and sometimes in a poor state!
This is great! Our game, Attack on Hex Island, started as a game inspired by Tetra Master and Pokémon not knowing it would turn into an introduction to the Deck Builder genre.
Now that the story mode is finished and we've gotten a great response to the game, we want to add a roguelike mode.
Except, we don't know what to do. This helps a ton! Thanks for the content, and I love the delivery! 😊
Thanks for mentioning the grandfather of deckbuilders called Dream Quest. Its such a goated game. Challenging as hell, but all the great ideas and concepts did start there.
"Games need to have immersive visuals"
I would like to disagree, purely by the example of Cube Chaos, where the pixel art is not the main appeal, and the very fact that every cube does in fact not fully evoke the fantasy of the thing is part of the game.
For example, one could have a knight lose all abilities, that is, every cube is only differentiated by their abilities, thus, a knight with no abilities would be identical in all but name, picture and hp to a stone.
That is a very fair argument. "Need to have" may have been a bit of a strong word there. I still believe it tends to be an important component to deckbuilding roguelikes but as you bring up, there are some exceptions.
they do still need to have immersive visuals
if it weren't for a content creator i watch
both cube chaos and one of my most loved games, circadian dice, would have completely been ignored by me
cube chaos needs its simple (and fairly ugly) graphics because of the complexity in its mechanics, but if i hadnt understood this i would not have ever bought it
circadian dice just has an artstyle that isnt ugly so to speak, but the designs of the characters just look really goofy
sometimes you need graphics as a hook more than anything, balatro wouldnt have been as loved as it is if the visuals didnt reel people in, its very satisfying to look at, hear, and play
its why the dungeons and degenerate gamblers demos are still fairly underground
they just dont have the hooks that the balatro demos do (and a content issue as well) and its even led some people to call it a game profitijg off of balatros success, despite having its first demo come out before balatro
its not a bad thing to want good graphics, nor is it a bad thing to have those graphics be a reason you like or dislike a game, its just the scale that changes a good take from a bad one
Mmm, love the Astrea music in the beginning. More people need to give that one a shot.
Nice video, too :)
Note that the scaling in endless mode is tetrational, proportional to x^x^x. At the moment, there isn’t a way to scale one’s hand at O(x^x^x), but this problem is obscured by the Ante 39 naneinf glitch.
I really loved wildfrost and always thought its lanes and repositioning of units added a very unique “gimmick”, these were almost the most important element to master, upping the strategy aspect by a fair bit. Unfortunately that was also why many players bounced of hard from the 1.0 release - the game was not necessary hard, but very punishing! One small misplay could wreck a run without any change of comeback.
Such a great video Marc! I've been loving running back Slay the spire in my free time and you make me want to try others now too
My current addictive rougelike is Astrea. It's a dice deckbuilding game. Not only do you build a deck made of dice but as it's usual for dice they have 6 sides which effectively means 6 effects. It might sound extremely rng based but the devs found a way to almost perfectly balance rng and strategy
Love the video. Great content, and I really like when the description have all the games featured on the video.
Arcanium, huh. Had to pause the moment Arcanium was mentioned to go and download it, I've been looking for something exactly like this, but Arcanium has somehow slipped beneath my radar.
This game desing videos are gold, thanks and keep it up
*These
This was a great video on the subject. To me one of the most important things for any roguelike is the ability to make meaningful decisions. Basically, I put more value on that 20%. Also, saw in the video. Assuming its your own profile, Cobalt Core is on that Wishlist. That game is so good and I was shocked to not see it on the part of gimmicks. When it comes to card based roguelikes its my top, even over slay the spire.
Thanks for the comment! Indeed, I am sad I just didn’t have the time to try Cobalt Core prior to having finished the script… I only just started playing it recently and I am a big fan!
This! I have been trying to describe the monolithic nature of Slay the Spire to the genre but couldn’t figure the words out! But yes, THIS 😂
Also i have been playing Wildfrost at work and didn’t realize there weren’t rarities and couldn’t understand why runs felt so random 😭
Ever play dicey dungeon?? Not sure what exactly you’d classify that as
Great video !
Not a lot of views on this video, but it's amazingly done. I don't comment often on videos but I just wanted to say : keep up the good work!
Roguelikes is like playing league of legends but as a jungler, you just keep farming and farming, when you die you just queue up again try a different character and build. Not only that roguelikes are the only times where I like seeing numbers and doing math, and every calculation just results to destruction.
Call me crazy, I may be mistaken. But, I didn't buy balatro, due to the changes between demos. It seemed like this newest demo, the game changes QUITE a bit from prior demos. I do plan to get the game eventually, I just have been a bit put off by some changes. However, I love Monster Train and Loop Hero. I was never able to get into Across the Obelisk the way I hoped I would. Oh well. I have been trying out Dungeon Clawler lately. It's a fun demo it isn't a deck builder, but the claw game mechanic is really fun.
Huhhhh? Maybe Im forgetting something, but I feel like this is a crazy take. What changes are you talking about?
What makes a good turn based roguelike
Erannorth Chronicles
Great video! What I love about deckbuilders is what I get out of physical TCGs and monster battlers like Pokémon - the ability to express yourself creatively through your build choices.
For Roguelikes there's a limitation on this - you don't get full control over the cards you receive - but I think the best ones give you enough tools early on to be both reactive to what you're given and expressive with how you use those cards.
If a game is best played by building the same core strategy as everyone else playing, that's an issue.
you should make a roguelike deckbuilder tierlist
5:27 hans of fate lol
I’m really surprised no one has mentioned Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories. Idk if it’s just because it’s not considered a “rogue like” but it definitely was the first game I had ever seen that required deck building and it preceded all these games
Oh I know what makes a good deck building roguelike: Mega Crit.
Yummy in my tummy
I like your reviews a lot!
Do you play mobile games also?
I only play ln mobile (lack of time.. I know pc gaming is superior).
I played three roguelikes.
Two of them deck builders.
Void Tyrant
Dicry elementalisy
Shattered pixel dungeon
Did yoy play any of them?
Hey i'm making a roguelike deckbuilder, you down to playtest it?
Hey! For any buisness inquiries or if you’d like to possibly feature your game on our new "Finding the Next Big Roguelike" series, feel free to email us at pepperheadgaming@gmail.com 🌶️
Inscryption is my favorite one, because it’s not really a deck building roguelike. I just like story games more lol.
I disagree. I dislike randomness very much. I stick to collectible card games rather than deck builders but having a chance to do something beneficial to me is like having a chance to poison or cause an enemy to fall asleep in an rpg.
I always go with moves with the least amount of randomness. I need my turns to count in both rpg's and ccg's. The same goes with random card openings. I dont want to buy boxes and boxes of cards just to get something good.
Yu-Gi-Oh roguelikes, haha (Yes, I had to)