DOCTOR SLEEP in-depth review by Rob Ager, not a patch on THE SHINING
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- čas přidán 13. 11. 2019
- Detailed review of Doctor Sleep, the new sequel to The Shining
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Funny, my brief American accent is getting better reviews on here than the movie itself. And not one person has mentioned that Danny found his fire engine at 23:29!
😂 love the sneaky whiskey bottles Rob 👀🥃
The mother in the Shining had books on witchcraft. Maybe she was the real evil? Eve
I too was getting bored until that scene you mentioned. After that I really started to care about what happened after. The last part was cheesy, but I didn't mind it so much
@@vikingfinn7250 Snob? Because of a bit of banter?
Can you please review Terminator Dark Fate?
I could listen to Rob Ager talk about The Shining for like 8 hours straight.
I actually think that’s possible with his combined videos lol
Yeah I was gonna say, I’ve been watching his content for weeks now
lmao same!
Real talk
Watch this twelve times then
It's ironic that Stephen King's Dr. Sleep is being haunted by Kubrick's Shining
One of the best comments here imho.
Nice one Centurion, like it, like it!
Steven King was a clever and decent writer working with a a brilliant and great director. King just didn’t get that Kubrick had the talent to turn his book to a great movie. He claimed to hate it yet keeps using its ideas throughout his career.
Its his source material his universe he deserves more respect than some hack director that disrespects peoples material
@@elvangulley3210 I liked the Shining made for tv version Steven King did back in the day. I actually popped it back on 20 years later and rewatched it. Good stuff, but honestly, do you think King’s original version with another director would have made for a better movie? A sincere question, it’s all opinion anyways.
Stephen King's problem with the Kubrick Shining movie is basically just that Kubrick saw through him. When King wrote The Shining he was an out-of-control addict destroying his family, and he wrote a novel where an out-of-control addict destroying his family is sympathetic, because a malevolent external force (the Overlook hotel = alcoholism) is causing this inherently decent man to behave evilly. In Kubrick's vision, the Overlook doesn't make Jack evil; he already is. The Overlook is just a stage that gives Jack the opportunity to give the performance he's been rehearsing for his whole life. King needed to believe that Kubrick just didn't get his book, but the truth is, Kubrick got it better than he did.
Very good point!
That actually makes a lot of sense. I've noticed King can have a bit of a temper, even decades after he quit drugs, so the fact Kubrick basically said "It's not the alcohol, it's just you" might've really struck a nerve.
@@libRteedude He definitely seems to have taken Kubrick's changes to the narrative quite personally and was very public in criticising it.
Excellent comment.
I believe this because I read the book years after watching the movie and the book had too much foreshadowing and was okay while Kubrick’s film was genuinely scary.
Re: Abra being related to Halloran. In the book, it's revealed she's related to Danny. When Jack was teaching he had an affair with a woman. She gave birth to an illegitimate daughter he never knew about; Danny's half-sister. That half-sister is Abra's mother; Danny finds out he's Abra's uncle. This kind of confirms the theory that Jack could shine too but didn't know/believe it, it's passed down genetically (same way Dick & his grandmother had it). Danny doesn't die in the novel and remains part of Abra's life, when she's a teen he tells her the family's problem with alcoholism and abuse, convincing her to avoid drinking and to keep her anger in control in order to break the cycle.
Thank you! I was going to point that out. I also, and although I do agree that King's story telling is not the same as it used to be, I have no issue with King bringing the story back to what he wrote. They ARE King's stories after all. I thought Dr. Sleep did a good job at staying true to the book, and decent job at connecting the Shinning to it.
@@MP-tj5xv ITA, and considering how much King hated Kubrick's version of The Shining, I think it was nice of him to let the producers of Dr. Sleep do a hybrid sequel to appeal to fans of his own version & Kubrick's version.
@@positivelysimful1283 Agreed!
Ty the
Ty the book is a bit better
The Astral Projection scene with Rose the Hat was one of the best scenes visually.
There is also something to be said about that: If the astral body is injured, the physical body sustains the injury once it returns.
Agreed
It was indeed!
Yes i agree they say you can achieve it with deep meditation i wonder
Yeah I think so too
A common misconception that I keep seeing people repeating is that while yes, Kubrick did keep supernatural elements vague to some degree for most of the movie, he 100% meant for it to be supernatural and the hotel was haunted. He said in an interview once that the ending where you see Jack's picture was meant to show that.
In my mind, any inconsistencies from the recreated scenes from "The Shining" can be explained by the fact that Danny's memories are understandably slightly different from any other representation of the hotel, his parents, etc.
Very good point 👍
That's interesting opinion.
Then it would be more Stanley Kubrick, in style. This is a Stephen King's view where continuity has to exist in the story relative to the ghost's or the "Shiner Vampires!" To be individualized to one's own perspective it has to feel that way the way Stanley Kubrick's "The Shining" presents where each of the three Jack, Wendy and Danny or four (Mr. Holloran) characters look like they are seeing things differently at "The Overlook Hotel!"
The film is supposed to be more of a sequel to the book then the film I thought
@@StoutProper It's a bit of both. Mike Flanagan did his best to blend the two together
When I first saw The Shining, I was completely overwhelmed by the idea that the real story being told under the blanket of the supernatural, was, in fact, the story of a completely disturbed family with an abusive father and husband; a man incapable of dealing with the fact that his life was derailing. And in his way down, Jack, like many people, turned to alcohol and blaming the one's more next to him for the failures of his life. But this transformation of Jack becomes much darker when - for me! - he starts to sexually abuse his own son and being extremely violent to his wife. When I saw Doctor Sleep, I interpreted the group of "vampires" as a group of child molesters. The first victim of this group is a small boy. When a child is sexually abused, the person that was growing up ceases to exist, her unique personality is destroyed so, for me, sexual abuse of a child is like murder. The abuser destroys or, as depicted in the movie, extracts his unique essence and, therefore, "kills" the child and the adult it would become. I saw that as a link with Kubrick's movie. Dany was abused by his father and in Doctor Sleep we have a group of sexual offenders who prey on children. We see at the beginning of the movie a completely destroyed Dany. He has no job, he is an alcoholic, he has no fixed place to live, he's lost, very much like someone who suffered great trauma somewhere in his life. But that's only my interpretation. And this is what makes Kubrick's movie a great piece of art because it allows us to project our own interpretations. Maybe it's right, maybe it's wrong, but does it really matters? In the end, we are all here discussing the movie and giving our own ideas.
Oddly enough there was a part in Steven Kings “IT” where there was a group sex scene with the girl and the rest of the boys from the “losers club.” (Graphic, repulsive and no mention from critics) . Supposedly, King wanted it in the remake but there was such a backlash that he dropped the idea of the child orgy scene. I read Kujo in the 5th grade and I just remembered him describing a man dancing 🕺 drunk and he was very sexually descriptive when it had nothing to do with the story. Me and my cousin were fans of Steven King but after Dr, Sleep we just said “is this whole movie about child abduction/molestation??” Knowing Steven Kings work, yes. I’d agree that’s exactly what is trying to be conveyed to the audience. And yes, to molest a child is to kill the child, his/her innocence, essence and emotional stability. The Greeks and Romans thought it normal (along with genocide and slavery) and imploded long before they were finally conquered by foreign invaders. Each generation that participates in irreparably harming its children helps to destroy future generations. Its just breeding emotionally unstable and socially challenged individuals at best. Being Greek and speaking with my family about the worst parts of our culture and it’s many mistakes, you can’t help but see it in society, the movies and tv. Yet, somehow, once again being normalized. Even Indiana Jones has a sub plot where his love interest accuses him of raping her when she was 12. It’s in the movie and no one noticed. Star Wars covers incest pretty well. Along with countless other Disney “family,” movies. Yes, I’d be surprised if Dr Strange WASN’T about metaphorical vampires representing all kinds of pedophilic ideologies. Me and my cousin must have talked for hours about how much this movie is alluding to all the insanely crazy things individuals and groups of individuals do, in Hollywood and across the country. Pedophilia is deeply ingrained in western society. Anyone who disagrees is suffering from a serious case of cognitive dissonance.
@@lambrosk3790 having grown up half in Asia, half in Africa… I assure u that child molestation is not just an American thing. In fact it’s enormously more prevalent in most other lands
Great analysis, I like it a lot.
Fantastic analysis. And still tracks / fits with the storyline of the 15 year old girl.
To me she has clearly been sexually abused - the kind of violence and vengeance she exhibited upon the pedophiles she lured does not come from nowhere. I think it’s a commentary on how some children who are sexually abused have their trauma manifests in by perpetuating it upon others (first by luring and attacking pedophiles, then by joining the group of child molesters). And so the cycle of abuse continues, condemning other children to her same fate as her while also losing her soul.
I don't remember Jack molesting Danny in the novel and the movie. What am I missing? To be honest I read the novel when I was in junior high school and didn't have a lot of worldly knowledge so I could have missed something lol.
The Jack Nicholson look alike was played by Henry Thomas who was the boy in E.T.
The director of Dr. Sleep uses certain actors fairly often. He's one of them.
Wow, i didn't recognize him at all. Good for him, but yeah, some digital trickery would have been nice too.
Exactly.....and more recently, he plays the father in *_Haunting of Hill House_* on Netflix.
The older Leonardo DiCaprio gets the more he looks like Jack Nicholson. He would've been a good choice. Just a thought.
It was?!?! Holy shit
"Let's pretend I haven't seen Kubrick's movie of The Shining..." ...Not possible for me.
A hopeless exercize but I tried.
3:05 Hello skull, goodbye water
12:02 Hello warthog, goodbye skull
14:33 Hello girls and 2nd jack, goodbye warthog
23:12 Hello firetruck, double jack and shot glass
27:23 Hello wooden mask, twin jacks and ball
30:13 Hello wooden bust, ball switch, goodbye shot glass
Although it's all done at 9:22
As I recall, Stephen King wrote the book Doctor Sleep as a sequel to His book The Shining, and then the film came out and they attempted to meld the two together because the Kubrick version is the one people know. If you're going to make a sequel movie, you tend to work with the movie people will know first.
Like how Disney’s Return to Oz is a sequel drawing from the books but uses elements of the famous film version such as incorporating ruby slippers rather than silver. Wicked also does similar in a very clever way combining the two.
There’s a bottle of Jack Daniels in the background ! Jack and Danny !
That some subliminal prop placing right there.
...Aaah, but that's not just any Jack Daniels, it's Shit Jack Daniels .. ;)
two bottles of jd honey
I wonder if that was intentional by Stephen King in the first place, given the novel was inspired by his struggle with alcoholism
@@tomqelectronica if you pay attention the background changes a few times. Watch it again.
Stephen king's a great author but his dialogue is like he's never spoken to another human being in his life
Rob Carter His verbose prose is awful too.
It's why so many of his novels contain the same type of characters. Jocks, Nerds, Racists, Alcoholic Dads, Lone Black Characters, 50's Greasers etc... Its why i loved the film 'The Shining'... The dialog was there to just get A to Z. It's essentially a silent film.
@Michael Silve i always bring up how King said that Kubrick's version was like a "Great looking car with no engine".... Yet as fans of the film, we've been digging thru that engine for 40yrs.
Steven King is a Ok writer. I have read a few of his books and always was bored with them. I did like the The Shining. I feel that the film's are better than his books.
@@elskeletor3566 as Rob mentioned, King's had the benefit of great directors using his work over the years. I dont think he's awful, i mean, he has a lot of stories to tell. He just gets repetitive and so do his characters. But he's kinda become like the Novel Version of Spielberg. Mass production so to say. Some are better than others but the name sells. I just think his characters are one cliche after another. The filmmakers did the rest. Cronenberg brought that Cold, Raw Atmosphere. DePalma and his great style. Carpenter's composition and beautiful widescreen photography. Darabont had Roger Deakins for Shawshank who's arguably the best DP alive... And Kubrick... What more is there to say. After awhile though, his film versions were just meh. Almost jokingly so. Maybe some guilty pleasures but most are crap. Even the latest 'It' was formulaic. Flanagan has done a good job though, I'll give him credit. '1922'(By Zak Hildich i believe?) was solid too. But the directors took those stories and made them better IMO.
"Energy vampires", there as so many people like that.
'Fight Club' was about that. But with so called "Empathy Vampires" rather than energy. Another weird connection is in 'Room 237', where one of the analysts said the ghosts fed on people's energy, especially "Sexually." Obviously 'Doctor Sleep' ignores the sexual part but the rest is spot on. Plus, the same guy who made that analysis was the same one who also spoke about 'The Shining' being about the Faking of the Moon Landing. Not that any of this means anything but it makes me wonder if King or Flanagan chose that idea to run with or if it was just good analysis?? Idk. IMO, I don't think Kubrick faked the Moon Landing, what I DO think is that Kubrick didn't believe we ever made it to the moon. So his nods to Apollo 11 are moreso to point out that it was BS. It's interesting though... The same guy with the most outlandish thoughts on the film was also spot on in his other ideas.
Energy Vampires are specifically mentioned in the $atanic €ible.
“What we do in the shadows” is a comedy series that has a hilarious “Energy Vampire” who just drains your attention and bores you to death, (literally I think).
@@steveglover6411 , such a good show. The film is even better
Emotional vampires exist. They suck your emotions dry with their needs but aren't there for your needs.
I read the Doctor Sleep novel as soon as I knew the film was happening, the young Shining girl was actually Danny's neice in the book and I wish that was in the movie version, I understand that King wanted to do his story as a sequel to his book but the Shining film was so different from the novel that it seems almost impossible to consider the film an adaptation of the novel, but I prefer the Overlook left standing in the film ending rather than the book ending cause I thought the Overlook could then draw in more victims like it did with Charles Grady and Jack Torrence, but when I watched the Dr Sleep film I was really annoyed that they said the Overlook was condemned after Jack's rampage when they just cleaned it up and kept going after Grady did the same 10 years prior to Jack's interview and I found it unrealistic that they would have shut it down like they did
9:50 That guy is the kid who played Eliot in ET! To me it felt like it wasn't 100% Jack, it was the Shadow of what was left of him after he was consumed by the hotel...The Hotel merged him with Lloyd.
GTFO wow! I think he did the best he could. I noticed they shot him at a side angle and from distances. They at least made efforts to sell it as best they could.
I agree! That was the first thing that came to mind for me.
He has a longer extended role in the Director's Cut.
TY
@@tryksta7247 3 hours and its all good
Could you do a analysis of your own videos. I suspect hidden themes
I could do
but would you
Lol
@@collativelearning Your credit's just fine Rob.
tobias muller underrated comment
3:29 "Let's take this movie on its own merits and pretend I haven't even seen Kubrick's movie"
[spends the next 10 minutes complaining because the filmmakers chose not to match up with Kubrick's movie]
I think the idea behind Jack being so different is that it wasn't really Jack anymore. Once he died his essence belonged to the hotel, and he became another ghostly staff member. Here his spirit was repurposed as Lloyd the bartender, and not the same axe welding nut we all know and love.
See my comment about "loving" Jack being akin to loving watching a dog eat its own vomit.
I could've sworn that the scene where Danny gets the job offer from the doctor was modeled after Ullman's office. That harsh light from the window behind the doctor was unmistakable.
Yeah it was a blatant reference.
I found that really distracting. There’s a comparison in this article, number 10: www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/crystalro/doctor-sleep-behind-the-scenes-facts
It may be a good example of eastern egg culture going bad. That scene was confusing, I was thinking "What the hell? why are we in the overlook now?" Took me away from the actual dialogue. As a director, you shouldnt confuse your audience unnecesarily
@@ewanmcgregor5942 Hello There
i actually think there was a purpose to that scene. it’s another of the many ways danny parallels his father (his drinking problem and the ending are the more obvious aspects of this) so that in the end danny can redeem his father’s mistakes (just like he says his sobriety chip is for jack during the AA meeting).
the notification alone blew my socks off
Right? I was prepared to be yelled at for 30 minutes
Henry Thomas from ET played Jack Torrence. I thought it worked because HT is such an iconic symbol of innocence and youth and the 80's for me. Seeing him as Jack was the embodiment of corruption - which is the central theme of Doctor Sleep - fighting the urge to surrender to your darkness and the corruption of youth.
Mike Flanagan directed Haunting of Hill House who casted Thomas of the Father. Makes sense you break it all down. I had no problem and loved Doctor Sleep, probably more than The Shining because its not a slasher/haunted house story. House on Haunted Hill with Vincent Price will always be my favorite haunted house movie.
The “Shining Vampires” in this movie sounds a lot like Adrenochrome
Duke and Gonzo as Shining vampires?!?!
Thought I was the only one who noticed
Exactly
My first thought. Truth drop?
@@BermondsayBattler It’s not entirely out of the realm of possibility
anyone else notice the objects in the background moving around?
No, it's just your imagination. Perhaps you're just letting all those legends about how Ager's house was built on an old Navaho burial ground in Liverpool get to you.
Yes, and the clock in the mirror goes backwards.
Baby Monster left the room after a while :(
Those dolls are messing with me
Yep I noticed the skull moved.
The replacement for Jack Nicholson was the kid from ET. He's been in a bunch of horror/suspense stuff but probably the most memorable film he did as an adult is 'Gangs of New york'
Does the vampire group call themselves “The True Knot” In The movie? I’ve only read the book. What’s also interesting is that the book is clearly a sequel to the original novel, with the overlook hotel having been long destroyed.
They do. He just refuses to remember character names for some reason.
@@piratetv1 Makes sense, in the video, he said he doesn't have a script for this this review, only some points in the notes.
In this instance, I would've preferred they used that deepfake technology.
They should have Terminator: Deep Fake’ed it lol
I liked the fake that they used new actors without the deepfake, because they probably would have had to put deepfake faces over new actors anyone that would have taken away from the performances.
In Kubrick's Shining the guy Jack talks to in the bathroom insists he isn't the guy Jack thinks he is.
In Dr sleep I thought the same thing was going on with 'Jack' when he is behind the bar serving Danny.
Did anyone else?
@@mozart7820 Yeah, Grady. Though as that conversation proceeds he talks about 'correcting' his wife and daughters.
@@mroctober3657 i was looking for a connection with them both denying who they were.
This may have been said already: the relative connection is in the book. Danny is Abra's half-uncle. Jack had an affair when he was teaching at the university, that affair yielded Abra's grandmother Momo.
No the affair was between Jack Torrance and Sandra (I.e. Momo’s daughter). It yielded Abra’s mother (I.e. Lucy). Momo is Abra’s great grandmother, Sandra’s mother, and Lucy’s grandmother. But yes Danny is Lucy’s half brother and Abra’s half uncle. They should have included this in the movie really.
@@jimmorrison8203 so it plays out exactly like the stupid plot twist in Carrie 2? I thought that was stupid there and not something Stephen King would do and 15 years later he does exactly that.
angel luna
I liked it
Right. The book built up the idea psychic gifts were possible genetic traits passed down through families. Abra and Danny both saw Tony, who brought them together, and the later revelation that Lucy and Abra were directly related to Danny didn’t really surprise me. It should’ve been in the movie.
The hotel had its own generator if i recall, being so far from any kind of infrastructure this done when they built it Also Dannys Shine is what made everything just work again. Note the lights that turned on and got brighter just by Danny walking in the door
@Collative Learning This 30:55 @BzzKll2k15 Is right, that was suggested/explained in the film and the lights turning on part of that supernatural 'Shining' ability of Danny and his past connection and affinity to The Overlook Hotel.
There are three movies that I think are better than their source novels. One is "The Talented Mr. Ripley." (The film managed to be something of a tragedy, where Highsmith's novel just left me waiting for the moment when somebody finally punched the pathetic, whiny SOB.) The other two are "The Shining" and "Dr. Sleep." (Yes, I read them both, and frequently had to restrain myself from throwing the books across the room 'cuz I got them from the library.) I suspect part of the reason is I'm a survivor of abusive alcoholic parents, not an alcoholic myself. King's depiction of the hotel always seemed off to me, as an excuse for Jack -- a way for him to blame something other than himself for his crimes against his family. That Nicholson seemed crazy from the start actually makes more sense -- he was a violent time bomb just waiting to happen. That the Overlook helped speed things up is inmaterial; Torrance was going to (try to) be a family annihilator no matter where he lived. Very different messages, and King's version, not surprisingly, attempts in both novels to portray Jack Torrance as a loving husband and father "deep down," and I just ain't buying it. I suspect it comes down to whether you believe abusers drink so they can have an "excuse" to abuse or drunks abuse because they drink. And, I've very impressed with how the Dr. Sleep movie incorporates elements from the Kubrik Shining. (The casting of Jack in Dr. Sleep was absolutely perfect IMO.) They surprised me; I was ready to hate it!
I thought it was pretty hilarious that the actor of Obi Won became a sort of force ghost at the end of Dr Sleep.
I laughed when Andi literally Jedi Mind Tricks baseball boy into the van. Then I felt bad because of his next scene.
This movie works great as a star wars movie. There's all sort of force references, force powers, jedi/sith parallels, master/student references, parent/child dynamics. Oh and queens and princesses of course.
I'm no Star Wars fan, but I know Ewan McGregor from Trainspotting where he played a drug addict... and from Shallow Grave
@@Danny_Boel Yeah, anything but the three original movies is not worth seeing (maaaybe The mandolorian is), and the original movies are slightly overrated as well. The SF bits feel tacked on, might as well have been a swashbuckler saga or any other setting or genre.
I really liked Doctor Sleep, but its obviously not as rich in terms of themes as Kubrick's film and no were as close to the encrypted methodology level of the shinning, but overall it was a very good film and I am quite surprised that Rob even bother to see it, and even more, review it.
I loved this film, was very nervous Rob was gonna just trash it. He did bring up great points about how the last act fell apart, I didn't think it was as bad as he said but the fan service was a bit over the top.
Agreed on all points.
I absolutely loved it, warts and all. I like how he paid service to both Kings and Kubrick vision.
The shining movie had most Native American themes, all the colors and patterns were native in nature, but no matter how many times I watch it, I never see the theme of cold molestation that this guy see, guess she must shine.
@@nofriendzjustaname9337 Jack reads a Playgirl magazine with "Incest: Why parents sleep with their children"; Jack looks like he's about to have a feast on Danny during the fatherly love scene. What is about to transpire is so horrific the scene skips to the next day and it goes over everyone's head. If it is true there are no ghosts in the Overlook, Jack HAD to be the one who strangled Danny. And whether there are or aren't, he did it anyway.
The room 237 is a nightmare sequence. Danny covers his groin talking to the therapist in the beginning of the movie and all kinds of sexual innuendos are made. Wendy knows of this but is terrified and looks the other way. Trust me, Danny is raped and abused. Of course Doctor Sleep is half King's novel and King wanted ghosts, so this subtext is...Overlooked.
The Jack replacement looked great from the side. FROM THE SIDE, is important because as soon as you see him form a sentence and 1 word from the front, the immersion is over.
Love that you moved things between cuts as an homage. I caught the stuffed monster moving in front of the Jack Daniels, which is ALSO a great nod. 🤣 I'm a cash only guy, but I'm planning on making a list, adding the total, and buying some of your stuff in one go. I got a couple ways I can do it, and you've more than sold me on your entertainment and informative value.
dont' forget the skull and water glass going back and forth. plus a mirror! the clock behaves itself, though
They put the actor who played Danny in Stanley Kubrick’s The Shining at the baseball game, I thought that was pretty cool
Everyone is entitled to their opinion...I Loved the Sequel😎👍
But every opinion isn't equal in value. Just because you loved it, that doesn't make it good.
@@JamesLM2006 Well like..that's just your opinion man- Lebowski the Dude
@@nc32203 My point went right over your head.
@@JamesLM2006 No I got it, you didn't!
@@nc32203 LOL! Oh I got it, I'm just discerning. Your bad taste is not my problem!
Stepehen King wrote good books. Period. He wasn't propelled by the film adaptations. He is also a highly influential writer.
It must be tough for him to know that Kubrick's version of the The Shining is better than any book he ever wrote. Thats probably why hes such a miserable person to this day.
Seems to be a lot of “I wish this was the movie I expected or wanted it to be” rather than going in with an open mind. I need to see the Directors cut!
237 on the clock, a tennis ball, a few Native American looking masks, a bottle of Jack Daniel's, that's JACK, and DANIEL, the Barbie dolls holding hands on the pile of CDs in the mirror. I started to notice them about halfway through during one of the cuts. Should be careful with those continuity errors too. Some people might think you're seeding them on purpose ;-)
Bravo, not much slips past you eh.
And the fire engine.
Keep in mind Mike Flanagan is a hardcore constant reader in a huge fan of Stephen King. You wanted to ridge doctor sleep with coup brakes feel as well as being a true adaptation does stephen king's doctor sleep novel. I think he did a great job connecting the 2. The 1st 2/3 of the film was a very faithful adaptation of the Book. That's no easy task the bridge Kubrick's film With the source material because the film strayed show far from the actual the shining novel. If you read the book doctor sleep I think knew it appreciate how Mike flan again honored Stephen King and Kubrik as faithfully as possible. I don't think any director or script writer would have been able to do any where near as great of a job Connecting everything together. I am a huge Stephen King fan and a constant reader for over 25 years and I was blown awayBecause I did not think it was possible to honor A fill sequel and faithful adaptation of a story
I love the term "constant reader", it truly serves to identify a true King devotee.
I care more for the movie to follow along with the original source material than I do for it to align with Kubrick's interpretation. As a rabid constant reader, regardless of how good The Shining film was and the fact that the rights were sold, it was Kings to begin with and Kubrick would have never had the idea for the movie if it had it not existed. My loyalties ly with King and I do not feel it was necessary for The Doctor Sleep film to adhere to Kubrick's version.
Agreed! Making a sequel to Kubriks Shining is an impossible task that noone ever dared for a reason. They could never have found anyone better than Mike Flanagan. I personally do agree that the hotel did not need a spooky makeover tho.
Henry Thomas (Elliot from E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial) played the Bartender (a.k.a., Jack). He was only supposed to be a "reminder", not an imitation. However, I love your idea about a decaying Jack like the lady in Room 237. The "Great Party, Isn't It?" was Horace Derwent the original Overlook's Hotel Manager. It was actually Mike Flanagan who wrote and directed this. The novel of Doctor Sleep operates as if the hotel was blown up in 1977, and it became a campground (one of many) owned by The True Knot. In the book, Abra Stone is actually related to Danny/Dan Torrance. Jack was drunk at a function at Stovington Prep, where he kicked that kid off the debate team. He had an affair with Abra's grandmother, and she had Abra's mother, making Abra's mother Danny's/Dan's half-sister and Abra his niece. Therefore The Shining talent came from Jack, not Wendy.
I am an avid SK reader, I’ve always loved Kubrick’s movie. I liked his vision of it. The book was phenomenal. The Novel Doctor Sleep was phenomenal. I loved this film. In the end of Kubrick’s movie we see that photo of Jack at a party he never could have attended. I liked that. He was always the caretaker. But only after he was there. Why he got the job, etc. With Doctor Sleep, the movie, maybe the hotel IS thriving and people are there. Since the epic showdown at the end is based in the minds of 3 powerful beings, doesn’t mean necessarily that there isn’t another realm of life going on in that moment. They could be “ghosts” seen or felt by those on holiday at the newly remodeled Overlook. Someone did let Jack out of that pantry in the original and there IS a lot to leave up to the imagination in the Kubrick film. I loved this sequel. I don’t claim to research Kubrick too much. A little, yeah. Lol. I love his vision for this movie. The best part of any art is the eye of the beholder, and I loved this film both as a remake to Kubrick’s, and to a very well written novel by the King. I liked your video. Food for thought. Read 11/22/63. It’s amazing.
Have you read Doctor Sleep?? It’s not exactly like the film.
I thought the music was done well in doctor sleep
Eh, I found it was just a lesser remixed or rehash of the original score from.the first film.
what was the deal with the constant heart beats when there is nothing even remotely threating happening?
@@petesmith9475 It was mimicking Kubrick's effect without realizing Kubrick was truly doing it to simulate imagination/dream sequences.
@@petesmith9475 I think it was doing it to create tension. Kubrick did it to, but as pronounced. But both were effective I thought .
Pete Smith i thought they overused the heartbeat sound too. Still found it an enjoyable watch apart from going back to the overlook hotel
Stephen King wrote the novel Doctor Sleep, but the film is written (and directed) by Mike Flanagan. The last part of the movie that takes place is completely different from the novel, because the novel was based on King's Shining novel, so the Overlook is gone. You can't blame King for the ending, his ending is *completely different *.
on the topic of returning to the hotel and being able to start up the boiler, it's actually an even bigger problem than that. The whole reason Jack is hired as the caretaker at all is because the winters are so brutal that the hotel would be terribly damaged if it went even a single winter season without being periodically warmed by a caretaker. So it should be nearly collapsed from the freezing and melting over the years, and since there's also snow on the ground when Danny returns, whatever's left should be an absolute icicle.
There would probably be ceiling collapses in a few places and more evidence of damp.
Are you referring to Henry Thomas playing Jack as the bartender? I thought he did fine. If this is the scene you’re referring to, I think that Jack was meant to look like him but not be him even though it was him.
The actor who played Jack Torrence was Henry Thomas, the little boy Elliott from E.T.
I disagree with what you said about Kubrick leaving “Is the Overlook really haunted” up for debate. It’s ambiguous for 99% of the movie, but the scenes that cement the Overlook as haunted are the ones where Wendy sees the ghosts. So I don’t quite understand your gripe with Doctor Sleep leaning into the supernatural elements. Different does not mean worse.
Look up wendy theory
I just watched this last weekend. I enjoyed it quite a bit. Seeing as how the original source material was the book rather than the film, I see the Easter eggs/tied in settings as a nod of acceptance from the creator to the original film adaptation. Like you stated, King reigns the story back into his original world - but he managed to do it without shitting on the old film. Really, quite the opposite. It inspired me to yet again revisit the classic, but this time with a fresh perspective.
I also wasn’t at all offended by the actor playing Jack. In fact, I was relieved they didn’t do some CG crap. No matter how well done CG is, it immediately detaches me from the film (for me, there are exceptions, but never in regards to an actual person).
Anyway, to each their own. I really enjoyed your analysis
I was pleasantly surprised by _Doctor Sleep_ too. I saw it on TV recently and I really enjoyed it. Ewan MacGregor was great. The villain was scary and detestable, so it was extra-great when she got her comeuppance(s). There were lots of nice references back to _The Shining._
Oh come on Ewen McGregor was over acting in that film, and the movie was terrible.
@@crs2385 just watched it. Didn't think it was terrible at all, but obviously your mileage varied lol
It's amazing how many people love Kubrick's film so much while Stephen King despises it.
Seeing as how Kubrick underplayed the alcoholism aspect that King felt was very important to the narrative and also little things like Kubrick changing the car model in the movie and showing King’s car model wrecked on the side of a road, I think all King sees when he watches the Shining is two hours of Kubrick raising his middle fingers to the camera and yelling “fuck you! Fuck you! Aaahaha!” Lol
@@CarloisBuriedAlive It's because King made the Overlook Hotel the source of evil, and this evil slowly takes over Jack. Kubrick mostly ignored the evil hotel element, and made Jack a nutcase from the start of the film.
AnnathePiana I personally believe the best parts of the novel are the things left out of the movie, and the best aspects of the movie are the changes Kubrick made
AnnathePiana I think Kubrick places a significant emphasis on the hotel being evil/possessing Jack.
Sour grapes
I was taken aback by your American accent! That was pretty good! 😂😂😂
Live in Canada as a kid for 5 yrs. Sometimes I still think in a Canadian accent!
that was seriously fucking hilarious. as a midwesterner from america it was spot on
His accent was great!🇺🇸😂
Love how Rob has continuity issues in the background and scene dissolves just like the shinning in this video. Bravo and thank you for all your content.
I agree with the inside of the overlook not being done correctly at all. I believe they should of showed that the building was run down, and decaying. Then when Danny walked in to the building, the overlook hotel, just looks as beautiful and inviting as the day, he walked in as a young boy,It would of been jarring and unsettling.
I love how Rob replaced himself as Jack in the monitor.
Dammit, man, that zoom in on the doll creeped me the hell out! Hats off to you, sir! 👌
I remember watching this movie and when Ewan McGregor was at the bar and he said "Dad?" I was like "If this is a fuckin' CG Grand Moff Tarkin Jack Nicholson in this next shot I am walking out" As piss poor as that guy was I was glad they didn't do that Disney crap.
I was a couple hours into an acid trip when I seen Doctor Sleep. And it kept me on the edge of my seat. I didn't even realize it was related to The Shining until Holloran shows up at the nursing home. That scene had me shook to my core. "Once they rode camels in the desert. Once they drove caravans across eastern Europe. They eat screams and drink pain." I know evil exist in this world I've seen it first hand, but that whole scene will forever give me chills because I owe a debt to.
I need to watch it again. I drank a 2 gallon jug of fermented piss so I was grimacing a lot trying to force down the pee
Haha, wow. That's intense. You're braver than me that's for sure!!
“Collative Learning, you WERE the caretaker >:•D.”
I'm sorry to differ with you sir, but you are the caretaker. I should know sir. I've AAALWAYS been here.
HA! you stopped the clock I see ; ) hmmm, 14 : 37.
I see the Jack bottle, how many more Rob?
Sisters, fire truck, skull, goofy, shifting items and I'm only 5 mins in. Rob had some fun with this one :)
Peephole Circus the two dolls
The bottle moves
@@dylanatkins6159 Not. Twins.
@@kell_checks_in Yeah, you're right. Fixed. Thanks!
Ewan Mcgregor can do no wrong. Also the actress playing Shelley Duvall, recreated her mannerisms perfectly imo.
Love the video, but you said we should judge the film on it's own merits, ignoring The Shining, and then proceeded to talk about how the actor for jack Torrance doesn't look like the original and how that was a major weakness for you, as well as the "great party huh" guy's accent change.
Well, least he judged it on both merits.
Your analysis videos on the shining inspired me to become a screenplay writer. Just so you know. You brilliant bastard.
Great I look forward to your work ;)
links please
LINKS PLEASW
The movie worked for me. I read the Dr Sleep novel and I actually think this film is better. Yes the last act at the Overlook was a tad cringey but didn't take away from the overall experience for me. The villains were great, super creepy and very fleshed out. You could do a whole movie on the cults backstory and it would work. A gypsy type cult who feed on young kids "shine". Very well done, super evil. The scene with the poor baseball kid who they capture is up there with some of the most frightening and sick things I've ever seen on film. The little girl Danny befriends is a super talented and charasmatic young actress. Even the character Billy (played well by the always good Cliff Curtis) who is Danny's AA sponsor and friend is given some screen time & you really feel bad when that character dies. I would give it 4 out of 5 stars. Mike Flannagan is a good director and think about it, he had a almost impossible task here to try & carry out in trying to please Kubrick fans of an iconic horror movie and adapt a new Stephen King novel and make it all work.
I think the exact opposite. The novel was so much better. The film left with me with so much disappointment.
Flanagan's King adaptations are only as good as the books themselves, which is why I wish he could get his hands on better King novels to adapt. I'd love to see what he could do with something like Christine.
Rusty Kuntz I liked the movie till the end. They should have kept the books ending imo.
The books ending made more sense to the story in my opinion. The film wasnt great. Would highly recommend the book but wouldn't recomend the film.
There could easily be legal technicalities that explain why the hotel wasn't demolished. Plus if it has the Shine, it may have ways of preserving itself.
Wow, you didn't know that was Henry Thomas from ET? You also said you went into the movie not expecting it to be like The Shining..then hammer it cuz it's not like The Shining. Lol
Perhaps journeying to the Overlook and being able to turn the lights and boiler on were all metaphorical, a spiritual journey to confront the past trauma head on, like how you might see the 1980 chase through the hedgemaze as Danny leading Jack through the convoluted mental gymnastics of what the hotel represents but using logic to work his way out backwards
I feel the same thing. The 'electricity' activated the lights AS Danny walked up approaching them in order.
That, or it was possible because the hotel is haunted (or Shines), as do all of the people who've arrived for the climax.
I watch these videos to help me fall sleep. That's a compliment!
I think you are over estimating the role Stephen King took in the production of this movie. The writing was done by the director, who chose to merge the doctor sleep book with the kubrick universe.
3:04 The novel of Dr. Sleep does not contradict the Shining novel. In the book, the Overlook is long gone and the final showdown happens at a campground that's replaced it.
Rose the Hat made No Nut November that much more challenging
This reminds me that one of the strengths of the film version of "Silence of the Lambs" is that it didn't have any callouts or flashbacks to the events of Red Dragon (a.k.a. "Manhunter"). Of course, the filmmakers would have been unlikely to insert such references, since "Manhunter" was a box office failure in its original release. But there are mentions in the original novel, which were not included in the screenplay, and the finished movie feels stronger as a standalone story as a result. On the flipside, the second film version of Red Dragon feels badly hampered by the attempts to bring it in line with "Silence".
Yep
"It's o.k., I saw it on the cinema. " "It's o.k., he saw it on the television." I love it.
Wait what's your profile picture from? I have seen it somewhere but I can't remember...
Love your vids, but the "sexy blonde" was 15 during filming for this flick, and is now still only 17
This movie had a sexy blonde??
oof
As soon as he started talking about that I came looking for this comment. Glad I wasn’t the only one who was uncomfortable. No hate the movie reviews are great that was just.. uncomfortable
Ew.
@@sarahross1071 Sometimes a 15 year old could pass for a 20 year old. He probably just saw an attractive actress and didn't care to look up her age.
Him talking about falling asleep to dr sleep is too much 😂
Your previous analysis of Jack as Danny’s sexual abuser gave me a much deeper appreciation of the film & character’s creepiness, intended by the filmmakers or not - and you convinced me it was. Had I made Doctor Sleep I’d have hinted at such abuse in an AA meeting scene. Like have an incest survivor share while showing Danny’s pained reaction. That would also underscore Danny’s clear unease with the possible appearances of him relating to a young girl for no appropriate reason apparent to others. Instead they soft balled Danny’s view of Jack it like it was all about demons of drinking, not of a deeper sickness of the mind. Kubrick was right, King can go soft and mushy where he needs to bite harder. Great video as usual, cheers. (Oh, and GREAT thumbnail - Loony Toons indeed! What’s up Doctor Sleep?)
I think the SA references were there with the 15 year old girl who was recruited to the child killer cult. She was found viciously violating pedophiles, and I get the feeling that type of violence doesn’t come from nowhere. She was likely abused and to feel power she perpetuated further abuse upon the type of person that hurt her, pedophiles. Then later the cycle of abuse continues as she joins in to prey upon children
I actually loved this film. Not as much as I loved The Shining admittedly but I still found it very enjoyable and would definitely watch it again
Late to the show but Doctor sleep was perfect. The shining was never meant to be Kubricks version even tho I loved it. I'm happy with how King accepted its significance and told his story within the first movie. He fixed what he thought was wrong yet making the fans happy and continuing the story
More than likely it was Flanagan and the studio who pushed for the Kubrick elements.
Perhaps King accepted it, but he hasn’t really made mention of it to my knowledge.
For the record, screenwriter/director/editor Mike Flanagan pitched the idea to King about changing the third act, and King didn't like it. Then he sent King the script and he loved it.
And Flanagan never officially met King until he finished the movie (his second King adaptation, too, after Gerald's Game)
interesting.
35:19 | On your comments about easter eggs being put into movies as a marketing ploy. I kind of agree with you on the fact that the easter eggs are only really worthwhile if they add something conceptually. But I also think directors have put in references to other movies for a while now and it can be done more to tell the audience what the filmmaker's influences and not necessarily for marketing purposes. I don't have much of an issue with that. Regardless of how money-motivated they are, I'm still gonna mention them in my Things You Missed series, because if I don't then people will just complain in the comments.
Also, not sure if you were referencing my video, but I'm guessing you were because I spent some time talking about the music. And that's another example of some easter eggs not having much merit. I was fine with them using the heartbeat sounds and stuff, but not a huge fan of 'It's All Forgotten Now' and 'Home' being played on the nomads' radio, because it makes no sense and is only there as a throwback to The Shining.
Other than that, agree with nearly everything you said. Atrocious casting (besides Halloran) and not a bad movie on it's own merit.
Let's do an in-depth analysis on Robs set up here. The placement of the mirror to reflect the clock allows us to watch time passing, perhaps to remind us of the effort he puts into these videos. The Jack Daniels on the shelf combined with the water in the glass presents a juxtaposition between the purity of essence of the water and the potential intoxication that is just outwith his reach; symbolic of his sexual virility perhaps. His keyboard is mechanical telling us he likes the solid satisfying click of a key well pressed, and the current live project post-it note and the stack of papers placed on top of the laptop show that he is from a time before digital; preferring paper to bits; the single monitor confirms this and the massive size of the monitor combined with how close he sits to it might mean he is in denial about needing glasses.
The nod to the bottle of Jack Daniels is neat... even if it is the 'Honey' variant. The reflected image is a nod to 'The Shining' and the reference to mirrors. I particularly like the clock has stopped at 2.37 (that must be deliberate).
Very good point that the girl should've been Halloran's granddaughter! I think they were just doing the woke move of avoiding that protagonist being male or white.
I only like the shining because of what Kubrick hid underneath the story.
And what's that?
That the globalists are turning the frogs gay
@@daveschall8764 yupp but how was that explained in the movie ? Eyes wide shut it was very apparent,shinning not so much
*Killing that kid in the movie, is them openly admitting what they do in real life, to cultivate adrenochrome. Same thing with Monsters Inc.(where they put the molecular structure for adrenochrome in your face, via soccer balls).*
TheCyndicate Thats why the scene in the book and movie are SO disturbing, because we've heard about these things happening in real life. Also, #epsteindidntkillhimself
I noticed the adrenochrome themes. It's becoming the norm, desensitising the masses.
TheCyndicate please elaborate...
@@truthteller5521 , Adrenochrome is a type of euphoric "drug". Likely found due to the fact that meat tastes different if the animal was terrified just before the kill.
Many of these hollywood cults have admitted to the rape and torture of children in order to extract adrenochrome.
The entire Monsters Inc movie is about this process. I mentioned the soccer balls, because they are placed all over the movie and every single one of them has the molecular structure of adrenochrome emblazoned on it for all to see. They put it in your face and everyone loves it.
Why don't others see this adrenochrome secret in their face...
I finally watched this, avoiding it because of how much I adored The Shining. And I gotta say, this movie was pure fun for me. I didn't expect that, but on a surface level I had a blast.
I thought the movie had a ridiculously high bar to get over considering it is based on a fantastic sequel novel and had to pay homage to Kubrick’s version, in the ways that were possible. Given how much discrepancy there is between the two they did a pretty decent job of walking the tight rope. I love your critiques usually, but you should try to imagine what the movie would be if it, like the Dr Sleep novel which completely ignored the Kubrick version, was made into a movie it would have failed. Plus a direct sequel movie that ignored the novels would probably fail because no one can do Kubrick. I think Hybrid was the only choice and they did the best they could. It’s not great, but couldn’t have been better either.
The Barbie dolls were a nice touch. As was the JD bottles ;)
EDIT: Along with the other major "continuity" issues with your video. Well played, Rob. Well played indeed, sir.
I was gonna cover the dolls in Ketchup in one of the shots, but had to film the vid in a bit of a hurry.
the jack daniels is significant as well, its what jack drank in the bar scene.
Robs face over Jack's on the TV cracked me up
@@collativelearning : How long would it have taken you to dump _Heinz_ over dolls?!
More time would have been consumed by the cleaning up.
You _saved_ time by removing the batteries from your wall clock. I´ve been on sets wherein a considerable amount of _sturm und drang_ is necessarily applied to resetting all clocks and watches for consistency in film takes. _Ugh!_
The guy who played jack felt like a college humor sketch.
I thought that he was supposed to be ambiguous.
Scott Charney Yeah he did. I like how Jack was utilized in theory but you can’t recast a role like Jack Torrance (and that doesn’t mean recreate Nicholson with CGI either, that would be way worse), so I think they should have just left him out.
@@aqualitymagentachickenmask3298 It could have been made clearer. The character says that he's Lloyd the bartender, and I guess represents Danny's confusion, since he (the man behind the bar) only partially resembles Jack. I don't know if it's obvious enough. Note that there apparently was talk of Christian Slater handling it, assuming that he would be the right age, but he might have played the role too much like Jack Torrance! In any case, I quite liked this movie. I thought that the new actors playing the old characters were pretty well done, all things considered.
Come to think of it, I was hoping that somebody would actually play Lloyd for real.
I actually loved Danny Thomas as Jack.
It was Danny's memory of his father, and I took it as Danny manifesting his father, but at a more stable point in his life, not the Jack we saw in the film.
I dunno, I can see not digging it, but I did.
If no one else has pointed it out, Stephen King had nothing to do with the film of Dr. Sleep and his novel does not include the Overlook Hotel in it. Stephen King did not ignore his mini-series. He had NOTHING to do with the film version other than writing the novel the film is based on.
I loved Doctor Sleep, I went in thinking it would be dreadful but was pleasantly surprised which is hard to come by nowadays. I didn't find the Jack Torrance character bad at all. He's only in it sparingly, and I thought the bar scene is one of, if not the best in the film. Sure he's no Jack Nicholson but could anyone ever play Jack Nicholson? I actually credit them with hiring the new look-alike actors to play the roles rather than CGI. Rose 'The Hat' is definitely up there, if not probably the best villain i've seen since Anton Chigurh.
Agreed, I actually think Agar is being kind of mean spirited here.
@@williambraddellcomposing5905 Same. It's a good movie for what it is. Rob is being overly protective, and whilst I enjoy his material, he's too masturbatory in his praise for the shining
Rob, I knew you were always the caretaker.
"Surely the power to the condemned building would have been shut off" Say that to the management of Disney World.
King did sell his rights and Kubrick made The Shining how he wanted it. Still King as an artist still has the right to voice his opinion in comparison to his original creation. Regardless that doesn't take away from someone liking or not liking a movie. Obviously King's opinion doesn't effect the people who like the original The Shining movie.
When he mentioned how sexy Snakebite Andi was, I mentally checked out.
Yeah, kind of creepy...
She’s clearly like 20 odd it’s fine
12:07
That's a good accent. You otta be on fuckn TV with that accent.
Great reference
Love the nods to Kubrick with teh changes in surroundings. Specifically the clock stuck at "2:37".
You seem to forget that there was a director with a vision at the helm of this production. It was not Stephen King making all these decisions, and he is well-known for allowing directors to create their versions of his stories...even when he dislikes the results. www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/doctor-sleep-tries-to-reconcile-the-visions-of-stephen-king-and-stanley-kubrick-but-is-that-possible/2019/11/07/867f56fa-ff4a-11e9-8bab-0fc209e065a8_story.html