Before anyone complains about the harsh lighting in my footage here. I played around a lot with the set up and loved the over-exposed look, very fitting with the title of the movie. Clips from the movie scenes are unaffected though. Hope you enjoy :)
too bad i couldnt tell with my f.lux already set at cavepainting :-( wait a sec. why is your keyboard cable so thick? edit edit: why are there 2 rubix cubes on the empty canvas? symbolism ? how dare you
@@davidlean1060 you walk into the red carpet, and it squishes under your feet slowly, you come to the horrific realization that the carpet wasn’t always red, but it’s too late, the doors are already closing behind you…
Remember that "Tony" is short for Anthony, which (according to the novel) is Danny's middle name. Perhaps he's in shock because the "body" in the river of blood represents his own (via "Tony's") death, at least on a subconscious level. Just a thought.
Yeah, I'm in the camp it was just a curved object to assist the blood flow into the nearest portion of wall. The huge splash really helps the scene appear dynamic instead of the blood just spreading out evenly. When zoomed in you can clearly see a majority of the river curve to the right from the elevator, the increased build up made it explode and crash instead of just pooling out everywhere.
Things moviemakers do. A certain Swedish movie of a crime novel contains a scean with lots of blood. Real blood, not human blood but real blood to make a murder scean look more horrific.
When you mentioned how the elevators resemble an open mouth, with blood and a body coming out, i immediately made an association between the way Jack treats his son Danny and Goya’s painting ‘Saturn Devouring His Son’
Jesus man. Look at the front of your car. It looks like a face. Look at the place in the front of your car where you press a button and you can put sunglasses in it. It looks like a face with its mouth slowly opening.
@@oldironsides4107 yeah i understand. I’m familiar with pareidolia, if that’s what you are getting at. But that still doesn’t mean Kubrick wasn’t intentional about putting something in frame that would trigger pareidolia in the audience.
The first time we see the elevator with blood, it is introduced with a close up of Danny with his mouth wide open. This is followed by the disclosure that Danny had his "self imposed hypnotic event". He is haunted by the memory of the accident, and the lift filling with blood represents the taste of blood in the mouth, that comes with serious injury.
Supposedly he's also in the Gold ballroom twice in the scene of the party. It's said he a in the way background as a waiter and walks by at least once with the haircut of 1921 not the Jack Nicholson haircut of 80 we all love
@@lunarvision yes Nicholson I'm referring to. Supposedly in the background of the scene. Since it's so many people, it's hard to catch. Thx I grew up with the Cars too
At first I thought the river of blood scenes were pure silliness but they are starting to grow on me, particularly the last one. Wendy is running down a red hallway we haven't seen before. It's almost like an aorta, the elevators are the heart of the hotel, as if she is deep inside its body. The hallway also makes me think of a blood-coated passageway in an abbatoir, and Wendy is an unfortunate beast about to meet its fate. I don't know if anyone here has ever been inside a place where cattle are slaughteted, there is A LOT of blood.They cut the poor animal's throat and the blood is like a waterfall. It's pretty horrific. Very intense imagery here.
Thank you for the update. I personally interpret the river of blood as symbolizing the native slaughter upon which the Overlook was founded. The elevator is vomiting up all the blood and probably a body as well.
i think it means that and also means what collative learning says. i think stanley kubrick was trying to pack in as much horror as he could. and kubrick was maybe commenting on the family structure of such people as would go out and commit genocide - because everything boils down to family structures... jack, in the end, identified with all the other crackers in that black and white photo.
I was one of the people who denied the existence of an object in the blood back on your original video. Well, you've totally convinced me that there is something there now and it looks to me like whatever it is speeds up the flow of the blood to impact against the wall to produce that fantastic geyser of blood. Great video as ever.
Still find it hard to believe that it was a miniature set, just shows what could be achieved through the use of craftsmanship and talent (in front and behind the camera) Fascinating as ever Rob, keep up the good work.
Titanic is probably the last few films to do this too. One scene that's notable to me is a shot during the sinking where we see a steady shot zooming through a corridor (Scotland Road I believe) as doors explode and walls blast out. That was shot on a model set too.
@@horrorpodcast0707 No, additives such as dimethyl sulfoxide can decrease electron bonding between water molecules, atomizing it into smaller drops. Barometric and temperature changes may also vary the droplet size.
His simulation didn't even really look similar to me, he couldn't replicate what we see in the shot. There's clearly something physical there, whether it's a prop to help the flow or a body is yet to be seen but undoubtedly there's something physically there, unless I'm just hallucinating you can see the blood flow around the object. The dude seemed really hateful in his comments too, he just refuses to even see things any other way than his. 😩. I enjoyed this so much , i love learning new things ❤
You may have overlooked a small detail that supports the idea that the object represents Tony. In the scene with the psychologist, Danny talks about the little man that lives in his mouth. The teddy bear seen behind him has its eyes folded to resemble the elevator floor indicators.
I think Mr Ager had covered that years ago, he just either forgot to mention it again here, or just chose not to go over old news? It was either an old video of his that I learned this, or via his website.... many, many years ago!
@@silenthillanalysis lol That's the internet for you! 15 years or so after his initial busrt of Kubrick analysis videos, Rob is now having his own work quoted back to him! How 21st century is that?!
@@davidlean1060 Sadly, it's something I'm already familiar with as I often get people telling me about theories regarding the Silent Hill videogame franchise that they'd heard through the grapevine... ...to which I tell them that I'm the vineyard owner (so to speak)!
Look at the painting Saturn devouring his son. The eyes are like the elevators in that painting as well. The blood, the gore... Jack is devouring his son so to speak. To me the elevators could be Danny, but also Jack.
@@bazednormie666.1 Saturn worship is huge in the occult, and Kubrick as we know knew a little more than he should have about the occult so this is possible
There is definitely an object there, and I can vaguely discern the shape of a head and shoulder. The suggestion that Kubrick intended it to be the body of Tony is quite possible in my opinion and actually makes sense as Danny literally says he "lives in my mouth". Another even more unsettling idea is that Kubrick was alluding to cannibalism. It is clear that he portrayed the ghosts of the Overlook Hotel, "all the best people" as being of the most vile and evil nature. With Kubrick, who knows? Such a fascinating jigsaw puzzle of a movie.
I looked up this scene and saw someone else suggesting it’s a “spiral liquid diffusing weir” used to push most of the blood back to create the dramatic splash effect.
@@kinghailz786 yes as Rob mentioned but i would think Kubrick would ask to be able to see the blood "ride" up the wall in camera (on our left) to creat the effect he wanted. 👍
I don't think it's a 'spiralizing' device but it might easily be a bag or tube for diffusing or distributing the blood to make it appear thicker or flow faster.
@@mercurydigicom that blood can from instruments hidden behind that wall. Also the instrument behind the wall on the right gushed towards the wall on the left to create that image. Same with the other side... mixed with the blood gushing out of the elevator, it all contributed. If he done it countless times to get it right, he would never let something so obvious to remain in frame if it wasn't intended.
In my interpretation is that the scene is non other than Wendy’s miscarriage, and the object is the fetus itself: Tony, and Denny talks to him through the Shining.
Holy shiiiiiiit. That's why Tony goes "into (Danny's) stomach": because Danny is acting as a surrogate carrier of a little brother whose death he cannot mentally reconcile. And I'll bet you anything it was Jack who beat Tony out of her in a drunken stupor.
You've absolutely convinced me! What a neat interpretation. The other comments here about Tony being inside Danny's stomach only further convince me. Great job!
So perhaps the river of blood could symbolize Danny vomiting up a demonic parasite (Tony) as he no longer needed to supress the negativity of the trauma inflicted by his father and had regained his singular self by cutting-off his father once he realized he was evil.
Loved the ending transition! There’s definitely something there. That really makes that scene even creepier thinking that there’s a hidden dead body in there .
i was skeptical, until i heard your theory. Tony coming out of the mouth, makes quite a bit of sense. and they technique of blowing air up to make the shape is real nice.
The idea that it's the body of Tony really resonates with me. I think it explains why Danny is so horrified in that moment. Also, the thought that this is just a mechanism for directing the blood or something is absolutely ridiculous to me considering Kubrick spent weeks reshooting that scene. He would have known every frame intimately. What I'm trying to say is even IF there was just a reflection that looked like something in the blood, Kubrick would have noticed that & left it in intentionally. What we have is an obvious APPEARANCE of an object in the final cut, therefore Kubrick wanted it to appear that way. And you can bet anything that is noticed by a reasonable percentage of viewers definitely didn't escape the notice of Stanley Kubrick who was absolutely meticulous and obsessed with details like this. Great video.
I mean, he overlooked the obvious pipes in the top-left and then later sticking out of the door. Not noticing something that hasn’t been noticed until relatively recently isn’t impossible.
You are definitely one of the youtubers who inspires me to try and make video essays. Your stuff is always very eloquently worded, well put together and easy to follow your thoughts.
Initially, despite multiple viewings, I couldn't see an object at all. Then finally I was sort of able to make out something which I think is the referenced image. When the tubing was shown however, that I could see it clearly and it looked, to me, exactly like an umbilical cord running down from the top right of the elevator opening almost directly to the object. With no other evidence to support it, how about if Danny was originally a twin whose sibling died in utero (as often happens) and Tony is the embodiment (so to speak) of his lost other 1/2? There are medical references to a dead twin being reabsorbed (or sometimes more crudely described as eaten by the surviving twin) which might explain why Tony lives inside Danny (in his mouth and stomach) and speaks through one of Danny's own body parts (his finger). I also heard somewhere that Danny's middle name is Anthony (Tony) which was perhaps the intended name of his twin. Hey... far fetched I know, but isn't that the fun of wild theories?
Stephan King's The Dark Half literally deals with that. A famous writer has a dead twin he never knew about that finally takes physical form to try and take his place.
I think it’s just a thing to make sure that the blood flows correctly instead of just falling straight to the ground. It helps the flow go down the hallway better. If you look at the floor on both sides of the hallway just outside the elevator there is what looks like 2 heater vents and those were probably used to shoot more blood up the walls
I feel as if Im going crazy because I can vividly see its a chair. Its seat is a big cheap green plastic piece that curves upwards and its wooden legs are like those lawn chair legs that intersect into an x at the front. Like once you notice it its very obviously a chair
I like the idea of Tony that you mentioned because it does seem clear that the elevator is supposed to be Danny's scared face judging by the juxtapositions in the film and it would make sense that Tony would be who would fall out of his "mouth." I appreciate this video because I've never even noticed the object before, but it's very clear now!
When I saw them in Ready Player One, it felt like my stomach dropped ten feet! Even though that film is meant to be a fun rollercoaster the feeling of forboding leeches into this scene from the original film!
Playing the clip in the speed that it would have actually happened shows me a few things: *. It would be too difficult to insert and remove an object in that speed of time, and more difficult as it was a miniature. *. There are no jets blowing blood either, it is just the way it flowed. The blood on the left doesn't splash up from the side wall but rather from the corner section that sticks out in front of the elevator. This is the same for the blood on the right. The reason the splash is symmetrical is because this is the one that looked best out of the 12 takes. *. It doesn't look like there is any object, it just looks like a natural liquid flow. It's like pouring a full bath of water all at once down a funneled rigid rectangle place. The flow would be like that. The set was most likely tilted which increased the velocity too. It's a cool theory though.
I rewatched the Shining the other day after watching your videos. I think Jack and Wendy also have the Shining was my takeaway. I also believe Kubrick purposefully filled the movie with red herrings and wanted us to be confused and leave it open to as many interpretations as possible. When Jack says he'd sell his soul for a glass of beer and then the bartender appearing for example could leave you to think they're in hell.
I saw an old sixties or fifties movie the other day where the boss told a waiter or bartender "His money is no good here." In that movie this meant the boss admired the character and wouldn't charge him for drinks.
You forgot to mention your discovery of Danny's bear pillow resembles the elevator, the eyes are crimped down or trimmed to mimic the elevator dials and the bears red mouth
Not to get all personal, but I read David's interesting comments on his video. He was insulting people who disagreed with him, fallaciously using his reputation and experience in the CG industry to disparage people. Directly quoting one of his replies, "What do you do, besides playing video games and living with your parents?" The guy has a big ego, and you're doing some great work in debunking his rebuttal.
Our debate was very long-winded, back when YT allowed personal messages between users. He wasn't quite that harsh with me, but he loved to throw about the usual false intellectual catchphrases like "Occam's Razor" which is actually one of the dumbest perceptual principles I've ever encountered (need to do a standalone video on that subject actually). And pareidolia and cognitive bias, but when I challenged him on the smooth thickness of his "liquid" and that the result still lacked the very specific detailed highlights from the original he would just change the subject again and basically try to call me mentally compromised. I came to the conclusion he's not a very honest guy at all - at least on this subject anyway.
@@collativelearning Would love a video on Occam's Razor alot 👍 Used to subscribe to that belief alot and still do. Would really like to see a video on you pulling it apart
I always thought eyes on the bear behind Danny at the end had been doctored to look horrified like the floor indicators on the lift also I’m reminded of Moloch from metropolis great stuff Rob!
There are definitely extra jets/pumps on the sides to shoot blood up. As far as the "body", there's definitely something there but it's probably plastic pouch material that popped out when the effect was activated. It was a practical effect at the time versus a CGI recreation in Ready Player One. It would really be a stretch to hope the object would be prominent AND perceived as a body. I doubt anyone even noticed it in the original release.
I agree. They had to keep the liquid contained until "action". It would have leaked out of the door otherwise. Like a water balloon or bladder material . It was 1980...maybe an old waterbed was shoved into the elevator lol.
There are countless CZcams channels which make movie analysis videos. Almost every single one of them just points out obvious elements, explain the basic plot, then throw in some ancient philosophers' names in order to give the video an intellectual (but actually ridiculous) tone, and that's all. This is the only analysis channel I really really like, and have been following for years. Bravo to you from Italy.
Kubrick has a big thing with eyes... there's a psychological effect on the human mind since we make contact with people when we connect eyes... he was using mk ultra techniques on us, the audience... to subconsciously accept the messages and ideologies pushed out... in this case, slowly making us crazy... and yes, those eyes were mimicked... even cut at the bottom to give it that same sinister look. Like one has when they go insane...
hottake: it's a middle of the road thing. it's something that exists there to direct the flow of blood, but so placed so that if it is even seen, since it is hard to spot, well, a hidden dead body coming out of the elevator wouldn't be out of place
Could be a sort of "happy accident"... A piece of special effects equipment that wasn't intended to be visible in the shot, but it was left in because it just so happened to look like a corpse.
Considering how much double meaning he uses, this is the most likely explanation. Im a big David Lynch fan. He frequently will rewrite a scene to accommodate a happy accident.
My view: The object we see is production/effects equipment. But since it made it onto the screen...it's a corpse. So we have an unintended detail added to the story.
Love the Tony idea, cause how else do you show the physical death of an imaginary friend? It’s like an invisible corpse, that can only be shown when the blood flows around it. Also, the blood comes out from the same side of the elevator as the hand that Danny uses to externalize Tony.
@@jackgarrison8497 And the CGI persons never get movement patterns of airplanes in flight right. They always animate a "like on rails" motion instead of the realistic "tail-sliding" motion...
It's part of a clear plastic bag. Bags were used to hold the blood and they cut it open for quick release. A piece passed the door onto the floor. One of the pieces fills with the "blood pressure" and you can see the object rises from the floor and holds an expected bowing-out shape, but then it collapses when the pressure and splashing all equalizes. Maybe.
Hi Rob I just wanted to thank you for your content. I've been dealing with suicidal thoughts and depression for years now and your videos always make me drift away to a world of ideas and inspiration (as I'm an artist and writer myself). You also seem like a nice person to a have a beer with, and that adds to you videos. Thank you Rob, and keep on keeping on.
There is 100% something on the ground that the blood is hitting and bouncing off. The quality of your content is amazing and interesting enough to listen to for hours. I love your 2001 Space Odyssey videos as well
Not to over analyze here, but I think it’s just a big sand bag or prop type object to slow the “blood” from gushing out to fast. It just happened to fall out into the shot either by accident or Kubrick was hoping it wouldn’t be noticed. I know I’m going against the grain here, but just thinking out loud.
Its funny you mention “shining eyes” because during my last viewing i noticed a lot of scenes where the Torrances have bright shining reflections in their eyes, almost giving them an otherworldly look. Jack has it during the interview, Danny has it when hes talking to the doctor, and Wendy has it moments later when shes talking to the doctor in the living room. Oddly enough, if you watch the movie in the dark then we the viewers have the same “shining eyes” whenever theres bright light onscreen (window in Ullman’s office, window above the doctor in the living room in Boulder, the lights behind Grady and Lloyd the bartender, etc…).
Interesting you mention how we as the viewers have shining eyes. Have you watched the video of Robs interpretation of the true meaning behind the black monolith in 2001: Space Odyssey?
@@exit13productions50 cover of The Shining. Close up of the lead man in 2001. Plenty of times in Eyes Wide Shit. It's subtle, but he ensures that reflected light is always there. Dunno the meaning, maybe a thing about the soul?
It looks to me that he has taken the water in the state it immediately leaves the elevator as it does share a similarity. But yeah as soon as it makes contact with the object (which is there) and the ground it takes on a new form. He has kept the exact same form of the water in the split second it leaves. Hence the treacle look. Personally I do think it’s an devise to help the flow and effect. I want add I agree with your analysis otherwise. The idea that it’s a body isn’t far fetched. And yes the object becomes more and more obvious when watched which would imply it’s intended. The idea it’s Tony is a good lead and maybe if it is intended then the idea that Tony being dead and leaving the elevator dead may be a representation of a loss of innocence. Maybe when tied in with Jacks thoughts noted in the book and how he didn’t want to travel in the elevator it could be a representation of truth. Truth to the abuse that Jack doesn’t want to accept he is inflicting. Could this be then representative of the exposure of the abuse and Jack’s true self. I’m not sure either. My strongest thought on this all and what I thought initially was that it was an device connected to the wire / cable to assist in the effect. But it’s a interesting theory and may have some legs. You got me on one now…. Maybe a release of pain and the shining object is the “shining” which was a comping mechanism all along. The subconscious and non verbalisation of the abuse which someone like Dick Halloran who also has the shining can pick up on. Is this somthing you have already stated as I’m probably just regurgitating it without realising. I watched all of your shining videos a while back now and they absolutely influenced my views. So if it is sorry for wasting you time lol.
i just noticed that if you watch the teaser trailer (which is just an extended version of the blood elevatator scene) that the object stays in place though it's still hard to see you. im pretty sure it was just a pump of some sorts or just an object to curve the bloodflow. heres a link czcams.com/video/GUu2l8gb1Dw/video.html
I’m surprised it wasn’t painted red for concealment. For someone as bright as Kubrick that would seem to be a given. Perhaps this just shows it’s a film “trick” given over entirely to the Tech-heads.
basically my thoughts too. and to me a river of blood is representative of guilt. Jack is guilty about what he did, and he is afraid of the elevator. But it could also have something to do with danny's guilt which is self imposed due to the traume of being abused. BUT it could also reference the trail of tears, due to the movies themes about genocide. AND genocide is closely related to guilt. So i think all 3 in one is viable. its not just a double entendre, its a whole knot of metaphors if you ask me
Could talk about Kubrick forever would never tire of it. He's the greatest filmmaker who ever lived and probably ever will live. No one will surpass him. He was a master craftsman. Never made a bad movie. Mastered most every genre of film. Terms like "legend" or "visionary" don't even begin to describe him.
@@jackgarrison8497 Haha, in case you're not joking he's a Russian filmmaker who made movies like Solaris and Stalker, from Soviet times. By the way did Kubrick ever make a comedy?
I always thought Tony was an ascended master Saint Anthony guiding Danny. Maybe dark force entities kill Tony or Tony gives his life defending Danny and Danny screaming understands the death of his spirit guide.
@@drumstick74 It's not a theory, it's fan fiction. It's a guy saying "I always thought" followed by a statement supported by absolutely no evidence whatsoever. Lol, theories are a thing. This isn't one of those things.
I've worked on fluid simulations, dynamics, cloth, hair, lighting, shading, camera work and compositing for feature films and tv commercials. The recreation is not using nearly enough particles or a fine enough mesh to recreate the original from the movie, and you should really have a better blood shader using subsurface scattering if you want to try and make it more accurate. Even though the original wasn't using real blood, the liquid they use does allow light to scatter through it. That's why Rob says the recreation looks like chocolate (it's basically opaque). I would love to see an uncompressed version of the video (especially if there is a 4k Blu-ray) because there are too many artifacts in CZcams versions. Rob, if you have access to a Blu-ray version of The Shining, I can tell you how to extract the footage at high-res and uncompressed or close to it, and if you'd like to pass it along I'd gladly take a look. You can do the same with a DVD though it will be much smaller and the compression is worse to begin with.
Similar background, Hi-5 I think the point of doing the fluid dynamics like he did was to give a clear view of a reflective plane at a similar angle. I'm leaning toward reflection, and think it was a well done sim for its needs. Certainly can understand not being swayed.. but im going with occams razor here. It was asking for trouble doing a fluid sim at all, i would have just modeled a mesh, or several guesses at a mesh to approximate the fluid mass and take renders.
@@kkadera I'm actually more inclined to think it's a reflection after watching this update video. I think the desaturated, brownish part that people are taking to be a body is actually one of the brown coffee tables. It's skewed back and distorted towards the left. But once you see it, you can clearly make out the legs/sides of the piece of furniture going up and meeting the top, with the square shadow of the opening underneath. Looks kind of like a fireplace mantle falling over. Ironically if the blood was reflecting the table from the right side of the shot, then the entire thing would be blocked by the character's body in the Ready Player One version and not visible at all (which it isn't).
@@kkadera I can't make a judgment with the smeared artifacts. Could definitely be a reflection (after all we can't see what lights or other set gear are out of view, or whatever they had rigged up in the elevator and the way the fluid seems to rise up under itself) or an object. A single frame of mesh could have been okay, but it still looks different. If it is just a reflection, it's unclear what it's reflecting and is definitely missing from the mockup cg. I'd rather just see a high-res uncompressed series of frames to inspect from the film. The fact that it's so dark of an area makes the compression really turn it to muddy shit, and this video has probably been compressed several times. What I like about it is it looks odd, kind of messes with your brain if you stare at it, so either way it's a win :)
@@firejelly I’m too old and too busy for this, but let’s all pretend 30 year old me posted a reply video where I go thru a bunch of flaming hoops, using some zoom and refine edge filters and pretend to reveal RickAstley in there.
Amazing video. I watch the movie at least once a year. The river and object is seen by Danny first. Maybe he is forshadowing that he is going to loose his innocent childhood or further, his child soul. So the object in the blood could represent his lost shiny soul. Wendy has ignored it all the way, until she sees the river of blood with his lost soul at the end. Well... Just a thought.
Omg! The idea that the dead body is Tony is mind blowing! It would definitely explain the fact that Tony knows what is going to happen and why he doesn't want to go to the Overlook. Maybe Tony was another victim of the Overlook and Jack, if Jack has just kept coming back to the Overlook since 1921, he could have come back in one of the existences and killed his son Tony!
Rob, you are the king of Kubrick. I enjoyed him before. But, after watching and digesting your superb analysis, that enjoyment has turned into a deep admiration for what Stanley offered to us in his films. You, sir, offer peerless analysis and insight into his works.
Yeah, I was thinking that, too, that it could just be a blood bag or something used in the blood flow for the take. Otherwise, I think Kubrick would have made at least a cryptic reference to it elsewhere.
It appears to be some kind of tube designed to get the blood to flow left and right once out of the elevator, and with a certain force to get to splash up like that. Great analysis as usual, Rob!
Kubrick's longtime assistant, Leon Vitali, recently revealed in an interview just how the shot was managed. "We spent weeks and weeks and weeks trying to get the quality and of the blood as natural as it could be," the 70-year-old filmmaker told Yahoo!. "The consistency was also quite important, because we were pouring out hundreds of gallons of the stuff," Vitali continued. "And then, of course, there were the mechanics of it, because if you have that much pressure inside something like an elevator, it’s going to blow if you’re not careful ... I tell you, it worked in a way we never thought it would work... It was such a violent volume of this red liquid coming at you; those of us who were in there thought, ‘My God-we’re doing to drown!'"
The overview video of Joe Dyers eyes scream video states that the shot was tried four times. The dates mentioned indicate that it was little over a year that it took to shoot the scene to Kubrick's specifications. The snippet of video shown shows the crew sweeping out the blood from a regular sized portion of the kitchen. From what I understood, context clues, I thought that the scene was actually shot on the full-size set. And Joe says the reasoning was that Kubrick kept saying the blood didn't look realistic enough. The implication is that the crew kept tinkering with the blood and then they did the full size shot. Then Kubrick would say it's not good enough, they'd go back and tinker again, and then try the shot again. I could always be wrong, of course. For what it's worth, it does look like there is something in the flow.
The object does look organic, sort of like limbs attached to a lifeless body. Its possible both interpretations are true. Maybe they pushed tony out with the blood and pushing him into that position was the only way they could get the blood to spread evenly across the room. Good ol tony
Could this link in with your theory about what the man in the bear suit symbolises? While listening to that theory, I felt that Danny having a friend who lives in his tummy painted a pretty disgusting picture when you put it together with all the clues that suggest that Danny's father was molesting him. A red elevator that looks like a face unleashing a river of blood with an object in it could look a lot like the screaming face of a little boy throwing up after being made to injest something... Certainly not something pleasant to think about, but with all the clues about Jack being a molestor this was hard for me to ignore. However, knowing Cuberick, the scene likely had multiple layers of meaning.
@@reddoor6114 Oh, I think I missread your comment, apologies. But there was a scene with a man in an animal mask performing felatio in the film wasn't there? Was it a dog?
@@helenwhitlock7598 yea. What I'm saying is I think perhaps the scene with the guy in the bear/dog suit giving someone head could just a reference to the scene in the book thrown in by Stanley knowing full well that a lot of people wouldn't have ever read the book which would make it seem even more weird and that some sort of "great party" could have happened at some point in the hotel's past but also leaving it open to interpretation.
When I saw your first and second video on the body in the elevator river of blood: I wasn’t very convinced there was anything there and if there was, likely wasn’t something intentionally symbolic by any stretch. I thought you honestly were reaching a bit. However, I was completely on board with all of your other Shining theories (and still am), so it’s not like I was completely skeptical either. After seeing this video however: I am completely convinced there is something in the elevator river of blood! So much so that I am even leaning to your side and thinking there might even be a symbolic reasoning behind the body being there. I do see the merit in the more mundane theory it’s just something to get the blood to flow the right way, such as the air blowers you’d mentioned as a way to get the blood so high up the walls, however, I feel like Kubrick was meticulous that he would’ve seen that “object” in the river as an error and chose a different take without it. I mean, he did shoot the elevator scene over and over and over again, so it seems rather implausible that he would leave an object in the river if it wasn’t either intentional, or a happy accident he saw as a useful symbol after the fact. He had tons of other takes he could have used, why the one that looks like there’s something in the river of blood? That’s why I’m led to suspect Rob might be onto something with the body being an intentional symbol, especially as a theoretical symbolic connection to the Danny/Tony, The Twins, Mrs. Grady, or just the historical cyclical nature of abuse theme. Thank you Rob for revisiting this topic with some fresh knowledge! It really helped me see where you were coming from! You of all people are someone I actively work to try and understand your perspective, because I simply respect how insightful your observations are. Much respect to you Rob!
Rob I love these videos I will watch you talk about the shinning for the rest of my life 😂 I’ve only seen this movie once but spend hours watching your videos about it. I’ve got more entertainment out of your videos than the actual movie itself at this point haha
A commenter mentioned Saturn eating his children ... building (sic!) on that : A house (hotel) of terror creates trauma .. a trauma based identity (Shining in the blood) is imbalanced and need a loop of re-traumatization for its homeostasis Did you see the 2019 movie "Into the Labyrinth" ? .. where "children of the dark are created" .. by a labyrinth .. there is definately something here ..
The trauma based self (which in my mind is not individual but a collective phenomena) has a grip, more or less, in all of us (the part of us that is "Shining") . Realizing this is tough and can also be scary (the guilt is repressed and not acknowledged) However, now is the time The latests posts on my blog white bull dot dk is about this theme
One thing you can be sure of-whatever the object is, Stanley Kubrick wanted it there. If it was a glorified garden sprinkler used to distribute blood, he would have insisted that the effects team reshoot the scene. He never would have settled for having a glaring mistake like that.
Tony is in the mouth. The elevator is a mouth. Jack’s manhood goes in the elevator Throat is elevator to stomach. Blood represents pain of fellatio and the death it brings.
Hey Rob, long-time (too many years lol) listener/watcher/reader/customer, I just rarely ever comment. That said, I just wanted to say I really rather like the new camera angle and dampening foam/background, as well as -and especially- the sound quality. Huge improvement to an already incrediblly vast amd interesting library of information. Anyway, please dont ever stop. cheers!
I just got a copy of the film on Blueray. I was of the opinion that you are correct and there is something in the blood back when all I had was a DVD and particularly before I upgraded to a better TV. With a better TV and a Blueray copy going frame by frame I am no longer convinced there is anything in the blood instead watching it several times just now frame by frame I think it is very clear that it is reflections not an object and what is being reflected and why it appears as it does becomes pretty obvious. I don't think there is any necessity at all to do a recreation with CGI either, its an interesting idea but with access to sharp clear copies of the film it isn't necessary. I always find it fascinating to see, or re-see, things in films that were lost on older media like VHS or even DVD on older televisions. There is a lot of detail we all were missing with home video for years.
I believe the object in the blood is a chair, probably a wooden chair turned on its side. If it is a chair that could explain the flow of blood across the object. I think the curving flow is caused by the blood passing over the back and side of the seat of the chair. If I am right about this I admit that I don't fully understand the implications or meaning of the chair in the blood but I have three reasons for believing the object is indeed a chair. The first is that chairs are often used to symbolize death and the memory of a loved one deceased. Second, there is a massive amount of chairs visible in the movie. So many that i am convinced Kubrick did this intentionally. There are chairs in almost every scene and many of them are wooden chairs. Even when Wendy is in the boiler room there is a desk and a chair. There are so many examples I will not list them all but here are a few to illustrate my point. When Wendy sees the river of blood it happens immediately after she runs down a hallway with multiple stacks of chairs. When Danny sees the twins for the first time in the games room they are in between two tables with many chairs around them. And when he sees their dead bodies in the hallway after Grady has murdered them, there is a chair turned over on the left of the screen. There is a chair in the hallway on the right of the screen when Wendy sees the man in the bear costume. When Jack becomes angry with Wendy for breaking his concentration he is sitting in a chair and when he has the dream that he has murdered her and Danny he is sitting in the same chair. This brings me to my third reason: Every time something important happens in the movie someone is sitting down. In fact, virtually anytime anything happens, someone is sitting down. Again, too many instances to list them all but here are a few: When Jack is told about the Grady murder/suicide he is sitting down. When Jack tells Wendy he got the job she is sitting down. When the nurse examines Danny she is sitting on the bed and then she and Wendy sit in the living room when Wendy tells her Jack dislocated Danny's arm. Halloran and Danny are sitting when they discuss the Overlook and the Shining ability. Jack sits while typing. Danny and Jack are sitting on the bed when Danny asks if he would ever hurt them. Jack sits at the bar when he sees Lloyd the bartender. The woman in 237 is sitting in the tub. When Wendy sees the skeletons most of them are sitting...etc. etc. Even when Wendy cuts Jack's hand in the bathroom Kubrick cuts to Halloran sitting in the snowcat. The third reason is that even when there are no chairs present there are other objects to sit on. Benches in the maze for instance. Even the river of blood pushes an oversized chair past the camera at one point. Again, I'm not saying I understand the significance of this, just that it stands out to me and does seem like it was done with some purpose in mind. I would love to find out what others think about this theory.
This is cool. On another detail in the film -- Why does the typewriter change colour? One analyst thought that there were two stories going on simultaneously. One, the reality on display to us, and the second is the horror story that Jack is writing, using their stay at the Overlook to provide the inspiration. Jack behaves normally in half the film, and in the other half, he's going off the rails. I really want to know what you think about the typewriter.
It's not an abject, it's a reflection. There would be visible splash from the liquid landing on it yet the flow is unbroken. Look carefully, the flow runs over the highlight, it doesn't splash around it. It's a reflection.
It's a bladder, a blood bladder, the flooding splash special-effect Works in three stages first the blood immediately pouring out of the door then the 2 Cannons on the sides of the doors off screen then on the floor hidden by that secondary Cannon splash is a bladder that is slowly creeping out of the bottom of the elevator designed to create the perfect water flow effect on the floor once it bursts a moment after the secondary cannons, that's the only way they could get the even-ish Flow on the floor itself.
It looks like you're right. If you play it at .25 speed you can see the sleeve come out of the door. It extends all the way from the top of the door to the floor. There's something at the bottom of the sleeve that looks like a chair, but that may be to direct the flow of the liquid.
Love how the canvas in the back also mimics the elevator look lol. Back again with a great video! It seems that “thing” appears before the elevator opens though, so I’m inclined to it being something to help the blood flow over in more directions. But, there’s that little voice in my head that knows Kubrick doesn’t make mistakes in his movies lol
It would be very difficult to contain the volume of liquid with just a door without leaks. I suspect they would use a bag or bladder to contain it and then coordinate the door opening with slicing open the bladder. To me the best evidence of some object is that the obstruction causes diversion of the flow of the liquid. To me, the evidence against it being something intentional is that getting the shot at all would be difficult and trying to add any additional objects would complicate the odds of success. And it seems too subtle for Kubrick to have demanded it be there but ultimately nearly invisible.
@@collativelearning I was wondering this as well. The side splashes struck me as not from a cannon/hose/ nozzle. But a large amount of liquid, dropped all at once into a shallowish bowl shape and deflected ( and decelerated as well) to achieve that shape and speed. Think briefly turning on your kitchen facet into a shallow tumbler. Great video
If Tony lives in Danny’s mouth and goes down to his stomach, doesn’t that line up pretty perfectly with the motion of elevator? I really like this interpretation
to me it looks like it has a curve toward the left wall that feeds the blood to splash up against the left wall for added effect. i really cant imagine it being anything more than an item they used to control the flow. in the the footage you have at 4:30 you can sort of see that this curve toward the left seems to follow the flow back up into the elevator as well. it could be some sort of bagging used to keep the blood from seeping before the door opened as well.
It's obvious its something. Its gotta be a person or thing/object. Very hard to tell. Glad you updated this video. Was just watching the old one the other day. Thank you for your opinion. I believe Universal owns the rights btw. Happy Halloween everyone 🎃
Before I ever came across your videos I always thought a body fell out of that elevator. Even when I was younger I thought so but I thought I was just projecting. Then I came across your videos and was like "Yes! someone else has seen it and broken it down!". I'm pleased.
Okay, I remember thinking the same thing when I first saw the movie. It reminded me of a horse or other animal giving birth, just "gush and flop", but no one else ever brought it up.
@@hidingtk2860 Should've given the hotel an epidural, things may have gone better for them.... ☝️🏯🛀🎉🥂🍾🥃🍆🐻🪓 (Not a single black person emoji on my phone for Mr. Hallorann and that's ridiculous)
If the object in the river of blood represents Danny's imaginary friend, it is apropos somehow that most people can't see it and claim its not real :-)
Hey Rob, I seem to remember at the end of Vivian Kubrick's 'making of' there being some additional footage of some lighting tests or whatever of a decapitated head which doesn't feature in the film... not sure if its of any relevance though
I've been talking about this since I bought it on DVD early in the 2000s.. I'm glad you made this feature. Corpse fitting through the slot of the elevator door.. it's my understanding, this scene was filmed a several times, agonizing for the set creators, but the pay was good. Thanks for this video Rob. I've really enjoyed your videos over the last several years.
I believe (or at least I *want* to believe) the object is representative of "Tony", whom I believe was born out of Danny's trauma from abuse as a sort of internal defense mechanism of wisdom, direction, protection and comfort...the embodiment of the parental attributes that his own father lacked. To me, it looks like a child sitting on the ground with his knees pulled up, arms wrapped around his legs and head down, facing slightly away (toward the center on the elevators) in a defensive, cowering pose as if hiding or protecting himself from danger. It also looks as though the child is nude or at least shirtless, which could be referencing the hints toward sexual abuse as well as the violent physical abuse. But knowing me and my pop culture OCD, I'm probably over-analyzing. Lol I love what you do. Film analytics have been a life-long passion of mine and I appreciate having your videos to feed that craving. By far, the best material out there. 👏👏👏
@@jackgarrison8497 I like it more than most do but only watched it once. The Shining re-enactment scenes make it well worth the watch. Better than Doctor Sleep's re-enactment by a long shot lol
Were this from any other filmmaker, I'd say, yes, it's just a "device" to assist the liquid flow and mistakenly got into frame. But remember, we're talking about Kubrick here. And the "device" explanation just doesn't fit. You know that Kubrick had to be well-aware of the image of that "device". Had it been some mistake, some bit of a prop that accidentally got into frame, you know he would not have kept that shot. No. I'm convinced this object is deliberate, was placed there by Kubrick and holds some deeper meaning to the film. And Mr. Ager's explanation that it represents Tony's body being somehow "vomited" out of Danny's mouth/stomach just rings true with all we know and see in the film. Danny experienced trauma -- severe trauma -- it is suggested. And this additional trauma would justify Tony being "expelled" from Danny's stomach.
Hi Rob, really glad to see you’ve come back to this. I remember watching your The Shining’s vids while writing my dissertation a few years ago, they really helped me shape my own ideas. The Tony idea is great, never crossed my mind. I thought that due to the Overlook being built on the Ancient Indian burial ground and the blood of the Indians literally rising up into the hotel, the object would be the corpse of an Indian/Native American. The hotel “throwing up” the horrors of the past. It fits in with what I think the greater purpose of the film is and would explain the body too.
When we suffer serious injury, it is often accompanied by a taste of blood in the mouth, despite there being none. The fact that the scene is followed by the reveal that Danny has his "self induced hypnosis" I'd say he is simply remembering the trauma of the accident.
Before anyone complains about the harsh lighting in my footage here. I played around a lot with the set up and loved the over-exposed look, very fitting with the title of the movie. Clips from the movie scenes are unaffected though. Hope you enjoy :)
too bad i couldnt tell with my f.lux already set at cavepainting :-(
wait a sec. why is your keyboard cable so thick?
edit edit: why are there 2 rubix cubes on the empty canvas? symbolism ? how dare you
@@therealmacgyver5470 Good quality sturdy cable.
Yeah soemtimes it seemed very exposed but halfway through it looked better. I guess it sunlight but overall love the setup
oh, I noticed the overexposure. For me it's quite unpleasent to look at. But your voice and talking makes up for it. 💐
@@wallywazoom4026 That doesn't make sense. Ever heard of a thing called grammar?
It just occurred to me that we never see the interior of the elevators at any point in The Shining.
The hotel is weird enough, I can only guess how scary the elevators would be! I'd be taking the stairs to my room if I was staying there!
I love creepy elevators
@@hauntedhose Omen 2...
Now I'm imagining a forgotten cut scene where Jack takes an elevator and as the door opens on each level, he looks out upon another plane of Hell.
@@davidlean1060 you walk into the red carpet, and it squishes under your feet slowly, you come to the horrific realization that the carpet wasn’t always red, but it’s too late, the doors are already closing behind you…
Remember that "Tony" is short for Anthony, which (according to the novel) is Danny's middle name. Perhaps he's in shock because the "body" in the river of blood represents his own (via "Tony's") death, at least on a subconscious level. Just a thought.
In the novel, Tony is danny from the future. If i am correct
Interesting thought for sure. 🤔☝🏼😌🧐
@@bradsmith0889 really ? Read this long time ago. Don’t remember this specific detail. But maybe just forgot it after two decades 😂🤷🏻♂️
@@johnkim4526 the doctor scene is not canon i think since it was removed from later runs of the movie
@@Punttipate62 aah that explains it. i recently watched the movie and didn't see this scene and i was really confused
Yeah, I'm in the camp it was just a curved object to assist the blood flow into the nearest portion of wall. The huge splash really helps the scene appear dynamic instead of the blood just spreading out evenly. When zoomed in you can clearly see a majority of the river curve to the right from the elevator, the increased build up made it explode and crash instead of just pooling out everywhere.
Yes, I also think this. It’s a folie of some kind. It has to be something to contain the blood behind the elevator doors.
@Stabbi Chan Could be!
Things moviemakers do. A certain Swedish movie of a crime novel contains a scean with lots of blood. Real blood, not human blood but real blood to make a murder scean look more horrific.
@@michaelpettersson4919 woah!
@Stabbi Chan ooooh interesting
When you mentioned how the elevators resemble an open mouth, with blood and a body coming out, i immediately made an association between the way Jack treats his son Danny and Goya’s painting ‘Saturn Devouring His Son’
Jesus man. Look at the front of your car. It looks like a face.
Look at the place in the front of your car where you press a button and you can put sunglasses in it. It looks like a face with its mouth slowly opening.
@@oldironsides4107 yeah i understand. I’m familiar with pareidolia, if that’s what you are getting at. But that still doesn’t mean Kubrick wasn’t intentional about putting something in frame that would trigger pareidolia in the audience.
The first time we see the elevator with blood, it is introduced with a close up of Danny with his mouth wide open. This is followed by the disclosure that Danny had his "self imposed hypnotic event". He is haunted by the memory of the accident, and the lift filling with blood represents the taste of blood in the mouth, that comes with serious injury.
Absolutely fascinating. It amazes me that this many years later, people are still discovering/speculating on the many hidden horrors of The Shining.
Supposedly he's also in the Gold ballroom twice in the scene of the party. It's said he a in the way background as a waiter and walks by at least once with the haircut of 1921 not the Jack Nicholson haircut of 80 we all love
@@THECARS7879 Wait, do you mean Jack?? I’ll have to look for that. (Btw ~ Luv your profile pic. One of my all time favorite albums!)
@@lunarvision yes Nicholson I'm referring to. Supposedly in the background of the scene. Since it's so many people, it's hard to catch.
Thx I grew up with the Cars too
@@THECARS7879 stop.
BEST HORROR EVER
At first I thought the river of blood scenes were pure silliness but they are starting to grow on me, particularly the last one. Wendy is running down a red hallway we haven't seen before. It's almost like an aorta, the elevators are the heart of the hotel, as if she is deep inside its body. The hallway also makes me think of a blood-coated passageway in an abbatoir, and Wendy is an unfortunate beast about to meet its fate. I don't know if anyone here has ever been inside a place where cattle are slaughteted, there is A LOT of blood.They cut the poor animal's throat and the blood is like a waterfall. It's pretty horrific.
Very intense imagery here.
Thank you for the update. I personally interpret the river of blood as symbolizing the native slaughter upon which the Overlook was founded. The elevator is vomiting up all the blood and probably a body as well.
Absolutely!
i think it means that and also means what collative learning says. i think stanley kubrick was trying to pack in as much horror as he could. and kubrick was maybe commenting on the family structure of such people as would go out and commit genocide - because everything boils down to family structures... jack, in the end, identified with all the other crackers in that black and white photo.
I was one of the people who denied the existence of an object in the blood back on your original video. Well, you've totally convinced me that there is something there now and it looks to me like whatever it is speeds up the flow of the blood to impact against the wall to produce that fantastic geyser of blood. Great video as ever.
Still find it hard to believe that it was a miniature set, just shows what could be achieved through the use of craftsmanship and talent (in front and behind the camera)
Fascinating as ever Rob, keep up the good work.
Yes. It's not possible to minimize water.
@@horrorpodcast0707 it's slomo so it looks larger. It worked so well that its still fooling you today lol.
Titanic is probably the last few films to do this too. One scene that's notable to me is a shot during the sinking where we see a steady shot zooming through a corridor (Scotland Road I believe) as doors explode and walls blast out. That was shot on a model set too.
@@horrorpodcast0707 No, additives such as dimethyl sulfoxide can decrease electron bonding between water molecules, atomizing it into smaller drops. Barometric and temperature changes may also vary the droplet size.
@@ItsRickysChannelSHORTS Gondor in LotR RotK is a mini.
His simulation didn't even really look similar to me, he couldn't replicate what we see in the shot. There's clearly something physical there, whether it's a prop to help the flow or a body is yet to be seen but undoubtedly there's something physically there, unless I'm just hallucinating you can see the blood flow around the object.
The dude seemed really hateful in his comments too, he just refuses to even see things any other way than his. 😩.
I enjoyed this so much , i love learning new things ❤
You may have overlooked a small detail that supports the idea that the object represents Tony. In the scene with the psychologist, Danny talks about the little man that lives in his mouth. The teddy bear seen behind him has its eyes folded to resemble the elevator floor indicators.
I think Mr Ager had covered that years ago, he just either forgot to mention it again here, or just chose not to go over old news? It was either an old video of his that I learned this, or via his website.... many, many years ago!
@@silenthillanalysis lol That's the internet for you! 15 years or so after his initial busrt of Kubrick analysis videos, Rob is now having his own work quoted back to him! How 21st century is that?!
@@davidlean1060 Sadly, it's something I'm already familiar with as I often get people telling me about theories regarding the Silent Hill videogame franchise that they'd heard through the grapevine...
...to which I tell them that I'm the vineyard owner (so to speak)!
Look at the painting Saturn devouring his son. The eyes are like the elevators in that painting as well. The blood, the gore... Jack is devouring his son so to speak. To me the elevators could be Danny, but also Jack.
I’m with it. I’m sure some of “the best people” worship Saturn too lol
@@bazednormie666.1 Saturn worship is huge in the occult, and Kubrick as we know knew a little more than he should have about the occult so this is possible
Excellent observation. I'm on board with this
Goya - your a man of wealth and taste
Wow, that's really interesting!
There is definitely an object there, and I can vaguely discern the shape of a head and shoulder. The suggestion that Kubrick intended it to be the body of Tony is quite possible in my opinion and actually makes sense as Danny literally says he "lives in my mouth".
Another even more unsettling idea is that Kubrick was alluding to cannibalism. It is clear that he portrayed the ghosts of the Overlook Hotel, "all the best people" as being of the most vile and evil nature.
With Kubrick, who knows? Such a fascinating jigsaw puzzle of a movie.
I looked up this scene and saw someone else suggesting it’s a “spiral liquid diffusing weir” used to push most of the blood back to create the dramatic splash effect.
On the money. No guarantee blood splashes up the wall otherwise.
@@mercurydigicom there were other hoses behind each wall to do that effect... wouldn't even need a tool to be placed there specifically at all
@@kinghailz786 yes as Rob mentioned but i would think Kubrick would ask to be able to see the blood "ride" up the wall in camera (on our left) to creat the effect he wanted. 👍
I don't think it's a 'spiralizing' device but it might easily be a bag or tube for diffusing or distributing the blood to make it appear thicker or flow faster.
@@mercurydigicom that blood can from instruments hidden behind that wall. Also the instrument behind the wall on the right gushed towards the wall on the left to create that image. Same with the other side... mixed with the blood gushing out of the elevator, it all contributed. If he done it countless times to get it right, he would never let something so obvious to remain in frame if it wasn't intended.
In my interpretation is that the scene is non other than Wendy’s miscarriage, and the object is the fetus itself: Tony, and Denny talks to him through the Shining.
That could explain Wendys very uncomfortable reaction when Danny mentions Tony to the therapist.
Holy shiiiiiiit.
That's why Tony goes "into (Danny's) stomach": because Danny is acting as a surrogate carrier of a little brother whose death he cannot mentally reconcile.
And I'll bet you anything it was Jack who beat Tony out of her in a drunken stupor.
@@scabbarae exactly! A childish misunderstanding about birth.
You've absolutely convinced me! What a neat interpretation.
The other comments here about Tony being inside Danny's stomach only further convince me. Great job!
and the left elevator is at 1st floor, the second elevator is at 2nd floor which can tell that something happened to the 1st one.
So perhaps the river of blood could symbolize Danny vomiting up a demonic parasite (Tony) as he no longer needed to supress the negativity of the trauma inflicted by his father and had regained his singular self by cutting-off his father once he realized he was evil.
Could be.
@Charles Wilson Excellent Analysis!
Loved the ending transition! There’s definitely something there. That really makes that scene even creepier thinking that there’s a hidden dead body in there .
i was skeptical, until i heard your theory. Tony coming out of the mouth, makes quite a bit of sense. and they technique of blowing air up to make the shape is real nice.
The idea that it's the body of Tony really resonates with me. I think it explains why Danny is so horrified in that moment.
Also, the thought that this is just a mechanism for directing the blood or something is absolutely ridiculous to me considering Kubrick spent weeks reshooting that scene. He would have known every frame intimately. What I'm trying to say is even IF there was just a reflection that looked like something in the blood, Kubrick would have noticed that & left it in intentionally. What we have is an obvious APPEARANCE of an object in the final cut, therefore Kubrick wanted it to appear that way. And you can bet anything that is noticed by a reasonable percentage of viewers definitely didn't escape the notice of Stanley Kubrick who was absolutely meticulous and obsessed with details like this.
Great video.
I mean, he overlooked the obvious pipes in the top-left and then later sticking out of the door. Not noticing something that hasn’t been noticed until relatively recently isn’t impossible.
You are definitely one of the youtubers who inspires me to try and make video essays. Your stuff is always very eloquently worded, well put together and easy to follow your thoughts.
Initially, despite multiple viewings, I couldn't see an object at all. Then finally I was sort of able to make out something which I think is the referenced image.
When the tubing was shown however, that I could see it clearly and it looked, to me, exactly like an umbilical cord running down from the top right of the elevator opening almost directly to the object.
With no other evidence to support it, how about if Danny was originally a twin whose sibling died in utero (as often happens) and Tony is the embodiment (so to speak) of his lost other 1/2?
There are medical references to a dead twin being reabsorbed (or sometimes more crudely described as eaten by the surviving twin) which might explain why Tony lives inside Danny (in his mouth and stomach) and speaks through one of Danny's own body parts (his finger).
I also heard somewhere that Danny's middle name is Anthony (Tony) which was perhaps the intended name of his twin.
Hey... far fetched I know, but isn't that the fun of wild theories?
Came to write exactly this.
Stephan King's The Dark Half literally deals with that. A famous writer has a dead twin he never knew about that finally takes physical form to try and take his place.
It's the rubber strip that you find on any elevator.
I think it’s just a thing to make sure that the blood flows correctly instead of just falling straight to the ground. It helps the flow go down the hallway better. If you look at the floor on both sides of the hallway just outside the elevator there is what looks like 2 heater vents and those were probably used to shoot more blood up the walls
I feel as if Im going crazy because I can vividly see its a chair. Its seat is a big cheap green plastic piece that curves upwards and its wooden legs are like those lawn chair legs that intersect into an x at the front. Like once you notice it its very obviously a chair
I like the idea of Tony that you mentioned because it does seem clear that the elevator is supposed to be Danny's scared face judging by the juxtapositions in the film and it would make sense that Tony would be who would fall out of his "mouth." I appreciate this video because I've never even noticed the object before, but it's very clear now!
02:44 your reaction to the twins is classic literally laughed out loud 😂
When I saw them in Ready Player One, it felt like my stomach dropped ten feet! Even though that film is meant to be a fun rollercoaster the feeling of forboding leeches into this scene from the original film!
I mean not the most welcoming girls
I actually like the twins
@@dabtican4953 ayo??
@@Punttipate62 not that way hahah
Playing the clip in the speed that it would have actually happened shows me a few things:
*. It would be too difficult to insert and remove an object in that speed of time, and more difficult as it was a miniature.
*. There are no jets blowing blood either, it is just the way it flowed. The blood on the left doesn't splash up from the side wall but rather from the corner section that sticks out in front of the elevator. This is the same for the blood on the right. The reason the splash is symmetrical is because this is the one that looked best out of the 12 takes.
*. It doesn't look like there is any object, it just looks like a natural liquid flow.
It's like pouring a full bath of water all at once down a funneled rigid rectangle place. The flow would be like that. The set was most likely tilted which increased the velocity too.
It's a cool theory though.
Agree 100%. A lot of these theories are a huge a stretch, but fun to consider.
@@AbeIsLincoln Yep, true, I was engaged while watching the video, and I think this is a cool theory that is fun to consider as you say.
“Yeah so there’s something in the blood. So what? Big f***ing deal!”
Not going to lie that made me laugh Rob. Hahaha.
I rewatched the Shining the other day after watching your videos. I think Jack and Wendy also have the Shining was my takeaway. I also believe Kubrick purposefully filled the movie with red herrings and wanted us to be confused and leave it open to as many interpretations as possible. When Jack says he'd sell his soul for a glass of beer and then the bartender appearing for example could leave you to think they're in hell.
I saw an old sixties or fifties movie the other day where the boss told a waiter or bartender "His money is no good here." In that movie this meant the boss admired the character and wouldn't charge him for drinks.
Love the fact your red background looks like the hotel elevators from the scene itself.
Oh those are just ... "reflections". It's amazing what happy accidents occur in a film shoot ;)
@@collativelearning haha you're something else mate!
@@greenbeard.affliction Kubes
Kubrick planned that. Haha
You forgot to mention your discovery of Danny's bear pillow resembles the elevator, the eyes are crimped down or trimmed to mimic the elevator dials and the bears red mouth
Not to get all personal, but I read David's interesting comments on his video. He was insulting people who disagreed with him, fallaciously using his reputation and experience in the CG industry to disparage people. Directly quoting one of his replies, "What do you do, besides playing video games and living with your parents?" The guy has a big ego, and you're doing some great work in debunking his rebuttal.
Our debate was very long-winded, back when YT allowed personal messages between users. He wasn't quite that harsh with me, but he loved to throw about the usual false intellectual catchphrases like "Occam's Razor" which is actually one of the dumbest perceptual principles I've ever encountered (need to do a standalone video on that subject actually). And pareidolia and cognitive bias, but when I challenged him on the smooth thickness of his "liquid" and that the result still lacked the very specific detailed highlights from the original he would just change the subject again and basically try to call me mentally compromised. I came to the conclusion he's not a very honest guy at all - at least on this subject anyway.
@@collativelearning Would love a video on Occam's Razor alot 👍 Used to subscribe to that belief alot and still do. Would really like to see a video on you pulling it apart
He's the one probably living in his parents basement.
@@Puzzledtraveller lol :D
@@collativelearning Rob is giga Chad when it comes to Kubrick analyses
It's laminar flow. That's why it looks so smooth. It's just a reflection.
I always thought eyes on the bear behind Danny at the end had been doctored to look horrified like the floor indicators on the lift also I’m reminded of Moloch from metropolis great stuff Rob!
There are definitely extra jets/pumps on the sides to shoot blood up. As far as the "body", there's definitely something there but it's probably plastic pouch material that popped out when the effect was activated. It was a practical effect at the time versus a CGI recreation in Ready Player One. It would really be a stretch to hope the object would be prominent AND perceived as a body. I doubt anyone even noticed it in the original release.
I agree. They had to keep the liquid contained until "action". It would have leaked out of the door otherwise. Like a water balloon or bladder material . It was 1980...maybe an old waterbed was shoved into the elevator lol.
@jasonperry7970 That actually isn't far fetched... and would be pretty brilliant from a practical perspective.
There are floor vents on the left and right sides. Could they double as additional blood jets? Great video as usual, Rob
There are countless CZcams channels which make movie analysis videos. Almost every single one of them just points out obvious elements, explain the basic plot, then throw in some ancient philosophers' names in order to give the video an intellectual (but actually ridiculous) tone, and that's all.
This is the only analysis channel I really really like, and have been following for years.
Bravo to you from Italy.
Was Danny's teddy bear blanket have its eyes cut to semi-circles to mimic the elevator door dials?
You mean his pillow?
Kubrick has a big thing with eyes... there's a psychological effect on the human mind since we make contact with people when we connect eyes... he was using mk ultra techniques on us, the audience... to subconsciously accept the messages and ideologies pushed out... in this case, slowly making us crazy... and yes, those eyes were mimicked... even cut at the bottom to give it that same sinister look. Like one has when they go insane...
hottake: it's a middle of the road thing. it's something that exists there to direct the flow of blood, but so placed so that if it is even seen, since it is hard to spot, well, a hidden dead body coming out of the elevator wouldn't be out of place
Could be a sort of "happy accident"... A piece of special effects equipment that wasn't intended to be visible in the shot, but it was left in because it just so happened to look like a corpse.
Considering how much double meaning he uses, this is the most likely explanation. Im a big David Lynch fan. He frequently will rewrite a scene to accommodate a happy accident.
@@petemartell677 Or a lot more than a scene, as in the case of BOB.
@@DoctorPrepper exactly
My view: The object we see is production/effects equipment. But since it made it onto the screen...it's a corpse. So we have an unintended detail added to the story.
Love the Tony idea, cause how else do you show the physical death of an imaginary friend? It’s like an invisible corpse, that can only be shown when the blood flows around it. Also, the blood comes out from the same side of the elevator as the hand that Danny uses to externalize Tony.
I saw a dead infant wrapped in newspaper from 1959. (Rosemary's Baby joke.)
Good points!! Very interesting observations!!
No matter how developed CGI already is today... I'm no CGI guy... I hate it... for me reality is reality 100%
Agreed. Organic physical reality rules!
@@collativelearning Yes sometimes CGI can be Great but Particle Effects are so much better and make it much more believable
Heck of a lot of Ribena used for these scenes.
@@jackgarrison8497 And the CGI persons never get movement patterns of airplanes in flight right. They always animate a "like on rails" motion instead of the realistic "tail-sliding" motion...
@@BlueSky-ub4fx Oh well Yes it is very Important to get that right I don't understand why They always get it Wrong
It's part of a clear plastic bag. Bags were used to hold the blood and they cut it open for quick release. A piece passed the door onto the floor. One of the pieces fills with the "blood pressure" and you can see the object rises from the floor and holds an expected bowing-out shape, but then it collapses when the pressure and splashing all equalizes. Maybe.
Hi Rob I just wanted to thank you for your content. I've been dealing with suicidal thoughts and depression for years now and your videos always make me drift away to a world of ideas and inspiration (as I'm an artist and writer myself). You also seem like a nice person to a have a beer with, and that adds to you videos. Thank you Rob, and keep on keeping on.
You sound too thoughtful and articulate to let the bad thoughts take you away from this life. Stay strong and don’t leave 🙏🏻
Hope your ok man
I know that feeling. Hang in there. ❤️
@no name you doing better?
There is 100% something on the ground that the blood is hitting and bouncing off. The quality of your content is amazing and interesting enough to listen to for hours. I love your 2001 Space Odyssey videos as well
Not to over analyze here, but I think it’s just a big sand bag or prop type object to slow the “blood” from gushing out to fast. It just happened to fall out into the shot either by accident or Kubrick was hoping it wouldn’t be noticed. I know I’m going against the grain here, but just thinking out loud.
You’re just as meticulous as Stanley Kubrick was, with the same amazing attention to detail. Brilliant.
Its funny you mention “shining eyes” because during my last viewing i noticed a lot of scenes where the Torrances have bright shining reflections in their eyes, almost giving them an otherworldly look. Jack has it during the interview, Danny has it when hes talking to the doctor, and Wendy has it moments later when shes talking to the doctor in the living room. Oddly enough, if you watch the movie in the dark then we the viewers have the same “shining eyes” whenever theres bright light onscreen (window in Ullman’s office, window above the doctor in the living room in Boulder, the lights behind Grady and Lloyd the bartender, etc…).
Interesting you mention how we as the viewers have shining eyes. Have you watched the video of Robs interpretation of the true meaning behind the black monolith in 2001: Space Odyssey?
Kubrick does that with many of his films. Maybe all...?
@@kinghailz786 Never noticed, I’ll keep an eye out for it
@@exit13productions50 cover of The Shining. Close up of the lead man in 2001. Plenty of times in Eyes Wide Shit. It's subtle, but he ensures that reflected light is always there. Dunno the meaning, maybe a thing about the soul?
That's probably just the result of lots and lots of coffee and/or cocaine 😄
There were a LOT of takes done on this movie.
Do u see how the pillow bear, when Dani talks about Tony, has his eyes intentionally folded to look like the Elevators!!! 😮😮😮😮
It looks to me that he has taken the water in the state it immediately leaves the elevator as it does share a similarity. But yeah as soon as it makes contact with the object (which is there) and the ground it takes on a new form. He has kept the exact same form of the water in the split second it leaves. Hence the treacle look. Personally I do think it’s an devise to help the flow and effect. I want add I agree with your analysis otherwise.
The idea that it’s a body isn’t far fetched. And yes the object becomes more and more obvious when watched which would imply it’s intended. The idea it’s Tony is a good lead and maybe if it is intended then the idea that Tony being dead and leaving the elevator dead may be a representation of a loss of innocence. Maybe when tied in with Jacks thoughts noted in the book and how he didn’t want to travel in the elevator it could be a representation of truth. Truth to the abuse that Jack doesn’t want to accept he is inflicting. Could this be then representative of the exposure of the abuse and Jack’s true self. I’m not sure either. My strongest thought on this all and what I thought initially was that it was an device connected to the wire / cable to assist in the effect. But it’s a interesting theory and may have some legs.
You got me on one now….
Maybe a release of pain and the shining object is the “shining” which was a comping mechanism all along. The subconscious and non verbalisation of the abuse which someone like Dick Halloran who also has the shining can pick up on. Is this somthing you have already stated as I’m probably just regurgitating it without realising. I watched all of your shining videos a while back now and they absolutely influenced my views. So if it is sorry for wasting you time lol.
i just noticed that if you watch the teaser trailer (which is just an extended version of the blood elevatator scene) that the object stays in place though it's still hard to see you. im pretty sure it was just a pump of some sorts or just an object to curve the bloodflow.
heres a link czcams.com/video/GUu2l8gb1Dw/video.html
I’m surprised it wasn’t painted red for concealment. For someone as bright as Kubrick that would seem to be a given. Perhaps this just shows it’s a film “trick” given over entirely to the Tech-heads.
basically my thoughts too.
and to me a river of blood is representative of guilt. Jack is guilty about what he did, and he is afraid of the elevator. But it could also have something to do with danny's guilt which is self imposed due to the traume of being abused. BUT it could also reference the trail of tears, due to the movies themes about genocide. AND genocide is closely related to guilt. So i think all 3 in one is viable. its not just a double entendre, its a whole knot of metaphors if you ask me
The big skeletalized ready player one character is the reenactment of the dead Tony body falling in the blood. It's right there in front of you!
Could talk about Kubrick forever would never tire of it. He's the greatest filmmaker who ever lived and probably ever will live. No one will surpass him. He was a master craftsman. Never made a bad movie. Mastered most every genre of film. Terms like "legend" or "visionary" don't even begin to describe him.
May i ask have you ever heard of andrei tarkovsky
A legend himself not nearly discussed enough
@@thebossman80s Isn't He The Guy Who made The Music for The Shining?
@@jackgarrison8497 Haha, in case you're not joking he's a Russian filmmaker who made movies like Solaris and Stalker, from Soviet times.
By the way did Kubrick ever make a comedy?
Eyes wide shut was pretty bad....
Small addition to your point but the teddy bears eyes mimic the eyes of the elevator when Danny is talking about Tony living inside his mouth.
I always thought Tony was an ascended master Saint Anthony guiding Danny. Maybe dark force entities kill Tony or Tony gives his life defending Danny and Danny screaming understands the death of his spirit guide.
Interesting theory!
Woah, that's an awesome idea!
I like this more than what Stephen King actually did with Tony.
@@drumstick74 It's not a theory, it's fan fiction. It's a guy saying "I always thought" followed by a statement supported by absolutely no evidence whatsoever. Lol, theories are a thing. This isn't one of those things.
@@davemccombs
A theory is a theory.
I've worked on fluid simulations, dynamics, cloth, hair, lighting, shading, camera work and compositing for feature films and tv commercials. The recreation is not using nearly enough particles or a fine enough mesh to recreate the original from the movie, and you should really have a better blood shader using subsurface scattering if you want to try and make it more accurate. Even though the original wasn't using real blood, the liquid they use does allow light to scatter through it. That's why Rob says the recreation looks like chocolate (it's basically opaque).
I would love to see an uncompressed version of the video (especially if there is a 4k Blu-ray) because there are too many artifacts in CZcams versions. Rob, if you have access to a Blu-ray version of The Shining, I can tell you how to extract the footage at high-res and uncompressed or close to it, and if you'd like to pass it along I'd gladly take a look. You can do the same with a DVD though it will be much smaller and the compression is worse to begin with.
Similar background, Hi-5 I think the point of doing the fluid dynamics like he did was to give a clear view of a reflective plane at a similar angle. I'm leaning toward reflection, and think it was a well done sim for its needs. Certainly can understand not being swayed.. but im going with occams razor here. It was asking for trouble doing a fluid sim at all, i would have just modeled a mesh, or several guesses at a mesh to approximate the fluid mass and take renders.
@@kkadera I'm actually more inclined to think it's a reflection after watching this update video. I think the desaturated, brownish part that people are taking to be a body is actually one of the brown coffee tables. It's skewed back and distorted towards the left. But once you see it, you can clearly make out the legs/sides of the piece of furniture going up and meeting the top, with the square shadow of the opening underneath. Looks kind of like a fireplace mantle falling over.
Ironically if the blood was reflecting the table from the right side of the shot, then the entire thing would be blocked by the character's body in the Ready Player One version and not visible at all (which it isn't).
@@kkadera I can't make a judgment with the smeared artifacts. Could definitely be a reflection (after all we can't see what lights or other set gear are out of view, or whatever they had rigged up in the elevator and the way the fluid seems to rise up under itself) or an object. A single frame of mesh could have been okay, but it still looks different. If it is just a reflection, it's unclear what it's reflecting and is definitely missing from the mockup cg. I'd rather just see a high-res uncompressed series of frames to inspect from the film. The fact that it's so dark of an area makes the compression really turn it to muddy shit, and this video has probably been compressed several times. What I like about it is it looks odd, kind of messes with your brain if you stare at it, so either way it's a win :)
@@firejelly I’m too old and too busy for this, but let’s all pretend 30 year old me posted a reply video where I go thru a bunch of flaming hoops, using some zoom and refine edge filters and pretend to reveal RickAstley in there.
Rob, I LOVE your communication skills! At 0:40 you clarify already, that you don't have a definitive interpretation. LOVE your content! Thank you!
Amazing video. I watch the movie at least once a year. The river and object is seen by Danny first. Maybe he is forshadowing that he is going to loose his innocent childhood or further, his child soul. So the object in the blood could represent his lost shiny soul. Wendy has ignored it all the way, until she sees the river of blood with his lost soul at the end. Well... Just a thought.
In regards to the Elevator being a face, don't forget the teddy bear similarities.. those teddy bear eyes look just like the Elevator eyes.
Certainly :)
Omg! The idea that the dead body is Tony is mind blowing! It would definitely explain the fact that Tony knows what is going to happen and why he doesn't want to go to the Overlook. Maybe Tony was another victim of the Overlook and Jack, if Jack has just kept coming back to the Overlook since 1921, he could have come back in one of the existences and killed his son Tony!
Rob, you are the king of Kubrick. I enjoyed him before. But, after watching and digesting your superb analysis, that enjoyment has turned into a deep admiration for what Stanley offered to us in his films. You, sir, offer peerless analysis and insight into his works.
if you notice, there is a reoccurring theme of cannibalism in the shining.
Probably something that helped filming the scene/getting the flow the way kubrick wanted, not intended to be included in the story itself?
Yeah, I was thinking that, too, that it could just be a blood bag or something used in the blood flow for the take. Otherwise, I think Kubrick would have made at least a cryptic reference to it elsewhere.
It appears to be some kind of tube designed to get the blood to flow left and right once out of the elevator, and with a certain force to get to splash up like that. Great analysis as usual, Rob!
Kubrick's longtime assistant, Leon Vitali, recently revealed in an interview just how the shot was managed. "We spent weeks and weeks and weeks trying to get the quality and of the blood as natural as it could be," the 70-year-old filmmaker told Yahoo!.
"The consistency was also quite important, because we were pouring out hundreds of gallons of the stuff," Vitali continued. "And then, of course, there were the mechanics of it, because if you have that much pressure inside something like an elevator, it’s going to blow if you’re not careful ... I tell you, it worked in a way we never thought it would work... It was such a violent volume of this red liquid coming at you; those of us who were in there thought, ‘My God-we’re doing to drown!'"
This seems to indicate then that the set was not a miniature
The overview video of Joe Dyers eyes scream video states that the shot was tried four times. The dates mentioned indicate that it was little over a year that it took to shoot the scene to Kubrick's specifications. The snippet of video shown shows the crew sweeping out the blood from a regular sized portion of the kitchen. From what I understood, context clues, I thought that the scene was actually shot on the full-size set. And Joe says the reasoning was that Kubrick kept saying the blood didn't look realistic enough. The implication is that the crew kept tinkering with the blood and then they did the full size shot. Then Kubrick would say it's not good enough, they'd go back and tinker again, and then try the shot again. I could always be wrong, of course. For what it's worth, it does look like there is something in the flow.
The object does look organic, sort of like limbs attached to a lifeless body. Its possible both interpretations are true. Maybe they pushed tony out with the blood and pushing him into that position was the only way they could get the blood to spread evenly across the room. Good ol tony
Yesssssss, you are the weaver :D
I always thought it was a part of the plastic bag or the container that it was held in while the "blood" was inside of the elevator
Could this link in with your theory about what the man in the bear suit symbolises? While listening to that theory, I felt that Danny having a friend who lives in his tummy painted a pretty disgusting picture when you put it together with all the clues that suggest that Danny's father was molesting him. A red elevator that looks like a face unleashing a river of blood with an object in it could look a lot like the screaming face of a little boy throwing up after being made to injest something... Certainly not something pleasant to think about, but with all the clues about Jack being a molestor this was hard for me to ignore. However, knowing Cuberick, the scene likely had multiple layers of meaning.
Yeah dark stuff but hard to dismiss
The man in the bear suit was to reference a scene in the book which wasn't used in the movie
@@reddoor6114 we're discussing the movie and it's symbolic reference so it's relevant
@@reddoor6114 Oh, I think I missread your comment, apologies. But there was a scene with a man in an animal mask performing felatio in the film wasn't there? Was it a dog?
@@helenwhitlock7598 yea. What I'm saying is
I think perhaps the scene with the guy in the bear/dog suit giving someone head could just a reference to the scene in the book thrown in by Stanley knowing full well that a lot of people wouldn't have ever read the book which would make it seem even more weird and that some sort of "great party" could have happened at some point in the hotel's past but also leaving it open to interpretation.
"That's odd. The blood usually gets off on the second floor."-- Monty Burns
When I saw your first and second video on the body in the elevator river of blood: I wasn’t very convinced there was anything there and if there was, likely wasn’t something intentionally symbolic by any stretch. I thought you honestly were reaching a bit. However, I was completely on board with all of your other Shining theories (and still am), so it’s not like I was completely skeptical either.
After seeing this video however: I am completely convinced there is something in the elevator river of blood! So much so that I am even leaning to your side and thinking there might even be a symbolic reasoning behind the body being there. I do see the merit in the more mundane theory it’s just something to get the blood to flow the right way, such as the air blowers you’d mentioned as a way to get the blood so high up the walls, however, I feel like Kubrick was meticulous that he would’ve seen that “object” in the river as an error and chose a different take without it. I mean, he did shoot the elevator scene over and over and over again, so it seems rather implausible that he would leave an object in the river if it wasn’t either intentional, or a happy accident he saw as a useful symbol after the fact. He had tons of other takes he could have used, why the one that looks like there’s something in the river of blood? That’s why I’m led to suspect Rob might be onto something with the body being an intentional symbol, especially as a theoretical symbolic connection to the Danny/Tony, The Twins, Mrs. Grady, or just the historical cyclical nature of abuse theme. Thank you Rob for revisiting this topic with some fresh knowledge! It really helped me see where you were coming from! You of all people are someone I actively work to try and understand your perspective, because I simply respect how insightful your observations are. Much respect to you Rob!
Laminar flow. It can be a difficult effect to achieve, so it makes sense that the shot took many takes.
Rob I love these videos I will watch you talk about the shinning for the rest of my life 😂 I’ve only seen this movie once but spend hours watching your videos about it. I’ve got more entertainment out of your videos than the actual movie itself at this point haha
A commenter mentioned Saturn eating his children ... building (sic!) on that :
A house (hotel) of terror creates trauma .. a trauma based identity (Shining in the blood) is imbalanced and need a loop of re-traumatization for its homeostasis
Did you see the 2019 movie "Into the Labyrinth" ? .. where "children of the dark are created" .. by a labyrinth
.. there is definately something here ..
The trauma based self (which in my mind is not individual but a collective phenomena) has a grip, more or less, in all of us (the part of us that is "Shining") . Realizing this is tough and can also be scary (the guilt is repressed and not acknowledged)
However, now is the time
The latests posts on my blog white bull dot dk is about this theme
One thing you can be sure of-whatever the object is, Stanley Kubrick wanted it there. If it was a glorified garden sprinkler used to distribute blood, he would have insisted that the effects team reshoot the scene. He never would have settled for having a glaring mistake like that.
Tony is in the mouth. The elevator is a mouth. Jack’s manhood goes in the elevator Throat is elevator to stomach. Blood represents pain of fellatio and the death it brings.
Hey Rob, long-time (too many years lol) listener/watcher/reader/customer, I just rarely ever comment.
That said, I just wanted to say I really rather like the new camera angle and dampening foam/background, as well as -and especially- the sound quality.
Huge improvement to an already incrediblly vast amd interesting library of information.
Anyway, please dont ever stop. cheers!
I just got a copy of the film on Blueray. I was of the opinion that you are correct and there is something in the blood back when all I had was a DVD and particularly before I upgraded to a better TV. With a better TV and a Blueray copy going frame by frame I am no longer convinced there is anything in the blood instead watching it several times just now frame by frame I think it is very clear that it is reflections not an object and what is being reflected and why it appears as it does becomes pretty obvious. I don't think there is any necessity at all to do a recreation with CGI either, its an interesting idea but with access to sharp clear copies of the film it isn't necessary. I always find it fascinating to see, or re-see, things in films that were lost on older media like VHS or even DVD on older televisions. There is a lot of detail we all were missing with home video for years.
I got this strong feeling that it was a massive heart flopping out. The heart of the hotel? Jack's heart being swept away by the hotel?
I believe the object in the blood is a chair, probably a wooden chair turned on its side. If it is a chair that could explain the flow of blood across the object. I think the curving flow is caused by the blood passing over the back and side of the seat of the chair. If I am right about this I admit that I don't fully understand the implications or meaning of the chair in the blood but I have three reasons for believing the object is indeed a chair. The first is that chairs are often used to symbolize death and the memory of a loved one deceased. Second, there is a massive amount of chairs visible in the movie. So many that i am convinced Kubrick did this intentionally. There are chairs in almost every scene and many of them are wooden chairs. Even when Wendy is in the boiler room there is a desk and a chair. There are so many examples I will not list them all but here are a few to illustrate my point. When Wendy sees the river of blood it happens immediately after she runs down a hallway with multiple stacks of chairs. When Danny sees the twins for the first time in the games room they are in between two tables with many chairs around them. And when he sees their dead bodies in the hallway after Grady has murdered them, there is a chair turned over on the left of the screen. There is a chair in the hallway on the right of the screen when Wendy sees the man in the bear costume. When Jack becomes angry with Wendy for breaking his concentration he is sitting in a chair and when he has the dream that he has murdered her and Danny he is sitting in the same chair. This brings me to my third reason: Every time something important happens in the movie someone is sitting down. In fact, virtually anytime anything happens, someone is sitting down. Again, too many instances to list them all but here are a few: When Jack is told about the Grady murder/suicide he is sitting down. When Jack tells Wendy he got the job she is sitting down. When the nurse examines Danny she is sitting on the bed and then she and Wendy sit in the living room when Wendy tells her Jack dislocated Danny's arm. Halloran and Danny are sitting when they discuss the Overlook and the Shining ability. Jack sits while typing. Danny and Jack are sitting on the bed when Danny asks if he would ever hurt them. Jack sits at the bar when he sees Lloyd the bartender. The woman in 237 is sitting in the tub. When Wendy sees the skeletons most of them are sitting...etc. etc. Even when Wendy cuts Jack's hand in the bathroom Kubrick cuts to Halloran sitting in the snowcat. The third reason is that even when there are no chairs present there are other objects to sit on. Benches in the maze for instance. Even the river of blood pushes an oversized chair past the camera at one point. Again, I'm not saying I understand the significance of this, just that it stands out to me and does seem like it was done with some purpose in mind. I would love to find out what others think about this theory.
This is cool. On another detail in the film -- Why does the typewriter change colour? One analyst thought that there were two stories going on simultaneously. One, the reality on display to us, and the second is the horror story that Jack is writing, using their stay at the Overlook to provide the inspiration. Jack behaves normally in half the film, and in the other half, he's going off the rails. I really want to know what you think about the typewriter.
It's not an abject, it's a reflection. There would be visible splash from the liquid landing on it yet the flow is unbroken. Look carefully, the flow runs over the highlight, it doesn't splash around it. It's a reflection.
Danny's hand motion to represent Tony could also be seen as the motion to press the button to call an elevator
It's a bladder, a blood bladder, the flooding splash special-effect Works in three stages first the blood immediately pouring out of the door then the 2 Cannons on the sides of the doors off screen then on the floor hidden by that secondary Cannon splash is a bladder that is slowly creeping out of the bottom of the elevator designed to create the perfect water flow effect on the floor once it bursts a moment after the secondary cannons, that's the only way they could get the even-ish Flow on the floor itself.
It looks like you're right. If you play it at .25 speed you can see the sleeve come out of the door. It extends all the way from the top of the door to the floor. There's something at the bottom of the sleeve that looks like a chair, but that may be to direct the flow of the liquid.
Love how the canvas in the back also mimics the elevator look lol. Back again with a great video! It seems that “thing” appears before the elevator opens though, so I’m inclined to it being something to help the blood flow over in more directions. But, there’s that little voice in my head that knows Kubrick doesn’t make mistakes in his movies lol
It would be very difficult to contain the volume of liquid with just a door without leaks. I suspect they would use a bag or bladder to contain it and then coordinate the door opening with slicing open the bladder.
To me the best evidence of some object is that the obstruction causes diversion of the flow of the liquid.
To me, the evidence against it being something intentional is that getting the shot at all would be difficult and trying to add any additional objects would complicate the odds of success. And it seems too subtle for Kubrick to have demanded it be there but ultimately nearly invisible.
To what scale is the "miniature" set compared to what it would actually be?
they told me in the archives it was about four feet high.
@@collativelearning Thanks! Good video and interpretation about that scene!
@@collativelearning I was wondering this as well. The side splashes struck me as not from a cannon/hose/ nozzle. But a large amount of liquid, dropped all at once into a shallowish bowl shape and deflected ( and decelerated as well) to achieve that shape and speed. Think briefly turning on your kitchen facet into a shallow tumbler. Great video
This analysis is a great illustration of the superiority of miniature practical effects over CGI.
Absolutely fantastic. Your thoughts and breakdown of this movie would make for a fantastic Netflix mini series
Agreed 👍🏽 I'd watch that
If Tony lives in Danny’s mouth and goes down to his stomach, doesn’t that line up pretty perfectly with the motion of elevator? I really like this interpretation
to me it looks like it has a curve toward the left wall that feeds the blood to splash up against the left wall for added effect. i really cant imagine it being anything more than an item they used to control the flow. in the the footage you have at 4:30 you can sort of see that this curve toward the left seems to follow the flow back up into the elevator as well. it could be some sort of bagging used to keep the blood from seeping before the door opened as well.
It’s not a body. Back before CGI, special effects had to be created in ways that would be visually effective. I can’t believe I have to explain this.
It's obvious its something. Its gotta be a person or thing/object. Very hard to tell. Glad you updated this video. Was just watching the old one the other day. Thank you for your opinion. I believe Universal owns the rights btw.
Happy Halloween everyone 🎃
"That's odd. Usually the floor gets off at the second floor." But for real, that's a fascinating detail I hadn't noticed before.
Fun fact: In the novel, Tony is Danny's teenage self, using astral projection to travel back in time to ensure the survival of his younger self.
Dude, spoilers!!
SPOILER
Before I ever came across your videos I always thought a body fell out of that elevator. Even when I was younger I thought so but I thought I was just projecting. Then I came across your videos and was like "Yes! someone else has seen it and broken it down!". I'm pleased.
Okay, I remember thinking the same thing when I first saw the movie. It reminded me of a horse or other animal giving birth, just "gush and flop", but no one else ever brought it up.
@@RealBradMiller You know, that's a great description. 🤔 Interesting If that was what it was meant to simulate.
@@hidingtk2860 Should've given the hotel an epidural, things may have gone better for them.... ☝️🏯🛀🎉🥂🍾🥃🍆🐻🪓
(Not a single black person emoji on my phone for Mr. Hallorann and that's ridiculous)
@@RealBradMiller 😅 that might would have.. And yes lol that is ridiculous! U had every emoji there including the bear and honeycomb 😆.
If the object in the river of blood represents Danny's imaginary friend, it is apropos somehow that most people can't see it and claim its not real :-)
Hey Rob Ager, folks here.
Hey Rob, I seem to remember at the end of Vivian Kubrick's 'making of' there being some additional footage of some lighting tests or whatever of a decapitated head which doesn't feature in the film... not sure if its of any relevance though
That was just to see the practical effects of what the old hag would look like.
I've been talking about this since I bought it on DVD early in the 2000s.. I'm glad you made this feature. Corpse fitting through the slot of the elevator door.. it's my understanding, this scene was filmed a several times, agonizing for the set creators, but the pay was good. Thanks for this video Rob. I've really enjoyed your videos over the last several years.
I believe (or at least I *want* to believe) the object is representative of "Tony", whom I believe was born out of Danny's trauma from abuse as a sort of internal defense mechanism of wisdom, direction, protection and comfort...the embodiment of the parental attributes that his own father lacked. To me, it looks like a child sitting on the ground with his knees pulled up, arms wrapped around his legs and head down, facing slightly away (toward the center on the elevators) in a defensive, cowering pose as if hiding or protecting himself from danger. It also looks as though the child is nude or at least shirtless, which could be referencing the hints toward sexual abuse as well as the violent physical abuse. But knowing me and my pop culture OCD, I'm probably over-analyzing. Lol
I love what you do. Film analytics have been a life-long passion of mine and I appreciate having your videos to feed that craving. By far, the best material out there. 👏👏👏
Cheers, yes if it is a figure it does look nude and possibly small, but also bald for some reason :)
I prefer the Wemdy is insane theory and everything is made up in her head.
@@adampender2482 That is definitely a fun theory!
@@collativelearning I never saw Ready Player One it didn't look very Interesting from The Trailers so I don't know if The Movie is any good
@@jackgarrison8497 I like it more than most do but only watched it once. The Shining re-enactment scenes make it well worth the watch. Better than Doctor Sleep's re-enactment by a long shot lol
Were this from any other filmmaker, I'd say, yes, it's just a "device" to assist the liquid flow and mistakenly got into frame. But remember, we're talking about Kubrick here. And the "device" explanation just doesn't fit. You know that Kubrick had to be well-aware of the image of that "device". Had it been some mistake, some bit of a prop that accidentally got into frame, you know he would not have kept that shot. No. I'm convinced this object is deliberate, was placed there by Kubrick and holds some deeper meaning to the film. And Mr. Ager's explanation that it represents Tony's body being somehow "vomited" out of Danny's mouth/stomach just rings true with all we know and see in the film. Danny experienced trauma -- severe trauma -- it is suggested. And this additional trauma would justify Tony being "expelled" from Danny's stomach.
Hi Rob, really glad to see you’ve come back to this. I remember watching your The Shining’s vids while writing my dissertation a few years ago, they really helped me shape my own ideas.
The Tony idea is great, never crossed my mind. I thought that due to the Overlook being built on the Ancient Indian burial ground and the blood of the Indians literally rising up into the hotel, the object would be the corpse of an Indian/Native American. The hotel “throwing up” the horrors of the past. It fits in with what I think the greater purpose of the film is and would explain the body too.
I haven't ruled out the native american blood thing, in fact it could be both
When we suffer serious injury, it is often accompanied by a taste of blood in the mouth, despite there being none. The fact that the scene is followed by the reveal that Danny has his "self induced hypnosis" I'd say he is simply remembering the trauma of the accident.