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What difference does it make if the pipe is short or long? It would still be exerting the same pressure on the Zoomloc fitting if it were 1000 feet long.
Zoom Lock is worth every penny. Never had a leak. Insurance rates went down and if you do the math; initial cost of torch, tanks brazing rod, insurance and the like, cylinder cost on 3 to 4 foot tall oxy acetylene tanks, each $300.00 plus dollars, zoom Lock seems to be the better alternative. No nitro to flow. No blow back when brazing and on and on. No chance of copper oxide to foul things up. There is definitely a place for brazing gear on a truck along with Zoom Lock. Great video
The BIG QUESTION with a device like Zoomlock is whether it will hold up in the long run or not. Properly brazed lines will outlast the life of the unit itself. Will the Zoomlock O-rings hold up for 15-20 years, or will the high pressure and/or the refrigerant itself cause the O-rings to fail? Will it turn out to be solid technology or a failure like the micro-channel?
Stop using that big Blue sticky messy goo... Try snoop. It works better and evaporates leaving no sticky mess behind to later be mis diagnosed as an oil leak.
nice video john. I was wondering if the zoom lock leaks after you cut off the bell on a new unit does zoom lock have your back and pay time and material to replace service valve because I don't think icp will cover it under warranty.you would think there would be a zoom lock fitting to go over the bell if they want techs to use them on new installs
Excellent video John. As you know I love the zoomlock and have been using it for a while. Cutting off the bells isn't so bad once you have done it a few times. Zoomlock is here to stay. Joshua Year round heating and cooling
My question is would you have bought this tool? I like all the test your doing but the price tag is what is really the hang up. I see the benefits to this tool in certain aspects. I just can't see the return on investment. I guess I will just keep getting the touch out of the truck and wait till I find one at a yard sale in 20 years...
Im sure anyone that doesn't understand the cost effectiveness, has never done city work where they require a hot-work permit,a fire dept detail, an OSHA cert before you even think about bringing the torch up or in. I swapped out 26 condensers and coils and it paid for itself before I even did the first swap out. Also saved on run a round time and permitting fees and no detail at $95.00 per hour. I know myself and quite a few others that do plumbing also it has worked out great. Hydro air manofolds arr fast and look good also.
get auto cut circle cutters theyre absolutely awesome for tight spaces and if its so tight you cant spin by hand they make a tool for it or you can use your channel locks which is what id do
Alright it passed the bubble test what about the H-10 test? I like the tool but it is to pricy and it's another box in the truck like your videos thanks for doing them .
Well the intro let me know that all of this zoomlock hysteria being pushed by HVAC youtubers is because you're being sponsored. At least you're upfront about it.
Just because somebody is sponsored doesn’t necessarily mean that the sponsored product doesn’t work. If the product produced a leak on a 8k install, I’m VERY sure any CZcamsr in HVAC would shout from the rooftops that the product is trash. Which is why I’m intrigued by the confidence on the zoomlock company.
I use them on water and heating lines. Plumbers call them pro press. That fitting you put on looked like the o ring just made it over the tubing. Kinda questionable considering all the vibrations has to handle.
It took a min for me to figure out what you meant, when u said "bail" you meant bell, as in bell end. Good god your southern twang is twangy!! Should consider put sub titles on your videos.
@@Knee-Deep-in-Wisconsin I went to Parker's FAQ site. HNBR O-rings are designed for 30yr service life, operating from as low as -40F to 300F, capable of working in high vibration environments. I'm not affiliated with Parker, hvac companies, not licensed for plumbing, hvac, electric. Just another diyer and curious. With many doubting Thomas' from plumbing and refrigeration, reading these comments made me question engineering and simply did some research..........
Why do you blame Goodman for the short copper stub from the valve? Someone else brazed the elbow where it was, then you cut if off. Not Goodmans fault and you also could have removed the panel for more room.
Looks like a neat tool, but a real headache when things go wrong. I'm not even considering cutting off a perfectly good bell end knowing that one bad move and... Rut Ro! Houston we have a cluster. Thanks, but, no thanks.
When you showed 300 psi in that small pipe it gave me shivers - what happens if Zoomlock doesn't hold and this thing comes off straight into your leg :)))) I know, I know, but still scary :)
I'm a tech and I suck at brazing!! Period, just the way it is, we all work with guys who will tell you they are "perfect" at everything while at the same time griping about everything but not me I suck at it. We pump down systems every day for whatever reasons and pumping down a system for a possible leaking o-ring as opposed to a rusting filter/dryer or rotted condenser coil or rusting evap supports is more then an acceptable risk statistically especially because of the cleanliness of the install, conversely a junior tech could be left alone during the condenser install portion if he understands exactly what standards are expected and the same of the evap portion, as God is my witness at this point my knees are screaming dragging that damn braze kit up into an attic, I'm all about this new technology.
On the maxipro brochure it says they are only compatible with their tool and jaws... have you have luck with any more standard brands or jaws like Milwaukee or rigid ? We use Milwaukee m12 and m18 propress tools for copper plumbing with viega fitting and they look virtually identical to the maxipro fittings.
@@PhilScordato there are 2 size jaw kits for MaxiPro. One for the compact size press tools (M12 or RT200 series) or standard (M18 or RT300 series) size tools. Both jaw kits are tested and certified by Rothenberger who makes the jaw kits on these tools. Also, the MaxiPro jaw kits CAN be used on anyones water press fitting!! MaxiPro for the WIN!!!
I understand that you like Zoom Lock because its fast and easy, but how about long term testing? In this video you mounted the Zoom Lock so close to the valves, that if something went wrong, you had no way of cutting it off and replacing the issue. I have had this issue many time with PEX plumbing fittings. Brazing is the only way to go in this instance. You have no long term way to know if that Zoom Lock will hold under the condensing units vibrations, or how long the O-Rings will last. O-Rings are a flexible material that will one day decompose and fail due to temperature and chemicals that surround them. We all do remember the Space Shuttle Challenger??
Brad, using the Challenger disaster isn't a good analogy as it was an anomaly that never occurred again. Technically you'd be correct. The solid rocket booster seals that failed were not designed to low temperature conditions. The technical guys with the company that designed the boosters knew the temperatures that day were too cold for safe use and warned the launch controllers of their concerns but the launch went anyway. The unusually cold weather shrunk the seals and when the boosters were fired up, extremely hot gases flowed around the shrunken seals and the rest is history. Every other launch took place is warm weather. Whether or not zoom lock stands up to the rigors of refrigeration environments remains to be seen. Perhaps our European counterparts in the hvac industry have information.
Good vid John. I would feel much more comfortable brazing a small 6" piece on. If the service valve pipe coming out should be out of round" you'd be hard pressed. You'd probably have to go out and buy a valve.
I would like to see a vid of two simialr techs go head to head, one brazing and one zoom locking to put the discussion of which is faster put to rest. There's just no way brazing is faster, great vid John keep em coming man.
Tyler Davidson, brazing is way fast and I'll smoke either one of use with a brazing torch, on one take, and not even cook that valve or the Schrader valve inside of it I'll even leave the Schrader core in there
Sorry but you cant use that in south florida, and if you think thats going to work in the long run you've obviously never done Refrigeration before, and I got a bridge in Brooklyn that can sell you real cheap
Lets see, SilFlos will last for EVER, O-Ring , rubber, expansion and contraction I would give 3 years. Never happen ZoomLock. Is ZoomLock like 3000 dollars? Holy shit, googled zoomlock, 3000 dollars, on amazon, ya right!
Ivansgarage I'm a skilled tradesman and I braze copper. Zoom lock is another system to let in un skilled labor, drive down our wages and basically let any ding dong do our job. I hope design build exclude this product on commercial and industrial installs. And keep the real work for skilled tradesmen.
Nor-Cal Refrigeration & H.V.A.C Really? I don't see plumbers (Propress) out of job?!? You're talking about protecting the trade when you make CZcams videos showing how to perform our jobs. I strongly disagree with that statement Dave.
Brent Ridley I'm spot on with my statement it's a tool to let un skilled labor do your job. Which in effect will keep wages down. 🎤 drop!!!!!!!❤️ also I show very little actual work in videos and do more explaining for young techs to help them out. Any monkey can zoom lock a tradesman knows how to braze.
Nor-Cal Refrigeration & H.V.A.C So if I buy into your theory - carpenters, roofers, electricians, etc should all be out of work because Home Depot sells their supplies. Mic drop? Don't think so. What DIY'er or Hack is going to spend $3k on a tool? Not very many. Once again, kinda hypocritical coming from a guy who makes CZcams videos about the trade. You can't be on both sides of the fence. But I'm okay with the videos just like I'm okay with the Zoomlock. Hacks and DIY's will always find a way - It's more money in my pocket when they call me to do it correctly. This is just a friendly debate. I have a lot of respect for you Dave. You're a great technician. I don't want this to turn into a poo flinging contest!
The manufacturer only cares about compacting small as possible with zero damage in shipping... They will never try to be a Fren of service... Greedy demoncrats all day long..
TUNE IN MONDAY TO THE COWBOYS OF HVAC PODCAST WE WILL BE READING THESE COMMENTS FROM THIS VIDEO AND ADDRESSING ALL OF YOU!!!
Why not sweat it off?
300 psi on 4 inches of pipe or 400 inches, is still 300psi. You make it sound like it's more dramatic cause its a short run.
All I see on my feed is Zoomlock! I'm not even an HVAC guy but now I want one.
What difference does it make if the pipe is short or long? It would still be exerting the same pressure on the Zoomloc fitting if it were 1000 feet long.
right! "pounds per square inch" lol
it needs to be long enough for the fitting to actually fully seat and seal properly.
Did it on a heil inverter the other day worked perfectly tested it at 475 psi no leaks pulled an awesome vacuum
Good luck for "HVAC with John Israel" waiting for another video
Zoom Lock is worth every penny. Never had a leak. Insurance rates went down and if you do the math; initial cost of torch, tanks brazing rod, insurance and the like, cylinder cost on 3 to 4 foot tall oxy acetylene tanks, each $300.00 plus dollars, zoom Lock seems to be the better alternative. No nitro to flow. No blow back when brazing and on and on. No chance of copper oxide to foul things up. There is definitely a place for brazing gear on a truck along with Zoom Lock. Great video
2000 for the tool to crimp it.
@@Bnguyen276 I agree, very inexpensive when compared to traditional ways of joining
copper
The BIG QUESTION with a device like Zoomlock is whether it will hold up in the long run or not. Properly brazed lines will outlast the life of the unit itself. Will the Zoomlock O-rings hold up for 15-20 years, or will the high pressure and/or the refrigerant itself cause the O-rings to fail? Will it turn out to be solid technology or a failure like the micro-channel?
OMG. It's zoom lock Wednesday👍
A tip... next time braze the Schroeder valve nipple fitting 04:50, do the braze prior ZoomLock, and no heat-sink requirement/concerns at all.
Duh.
Stop using that big Blue sticky messy goo... Try snoop. It works better and evaporates leaving no sticky mess behind to later be mis diagnosed as an oil leak.
nice video john. I was wondering if the zoom lock leaks after you cut off the bell on a new unit does zoom lock have your back and pay time and material to replace service valve because I don't think icp will cover it under warranty.you would think there would be a zoom lock fitting to go over the bell if they want techs to use them on new installs
Excellent video John. As you know I love the zoomlock and have been using it for a while. Cutting off the bells isn't so bad once you have done it a few times. Zoomlock is here to stay.
Joshua
Year round heating and cooling
So what was the pressure in the morning? Guessing it was lower due to lower ambient in the morning.
Do we need to check if O ring in Zoom Lock is compatible with the refrigerant oil or not.
Hey wondering how you know what piston to use for the Evap coil?
How long do you think the cutting wheels on the tubing cutter will last?
Did the zoom lock fitting hold the pressure when you checked it the next day?
If u cut the Bell so it looks like a flare you could probably use the flare notch on your cutters to gain a little pipe off the valve.
My question is would you have bought this tool? I like all the test your doing but the price tag is what is really the hang up. I see the benefits to this tool in certain aspects. I just can't see the return on investment. I guess I will just keep getting the touch out of the truck and wait till I find one at a yard sale in 20 years...
Lloyd Emory I bought mine. No freebies here and I love it.
What was the power tool you were using, sir?
Hello Jhon. What jaw do you use for the liquid line dryer?
So john the question is did u get a chubby when u woke up a saw the gauge not move and no leaks ?
JH HVAC & Plumbing looked like it moved to me as well.
Im sure anyone that doesn't understand the cost effectiveness, has never done city work where they require a hot-work permit,a fire dept detail, an OSHA cert before you even think about bringing the torch up or in. I swapped out 26 condensers and coils and it paid for itself before I even did the first swap out. Also saved on run a round time and permitting fees and no detail at $95.00 per hour. I know myself and quite a few others that do plumbing also it has worked out great. Hydro air manofolds arr fast and look good also.
get auto cut circle cutters theyre absolutely awesome for tight spaces and if its so tight you cant spin by hand they make a tool for it or you can use your channel locks which is what id do
Thanks for sharing
My question is we can also do in high presion liquid line.
looks good. BUT with normal movement and compressor vibration over time is the REAL test....
That's where the o rings shine they can take vibration and movement
how's that work in a tight closet, looks bulky
Not sure a cost/benefit analysis comes out in the connectors favor. Let's see how it does in the market going forward.
Alright it passed the bubble test what about the H-10 test? I like the tool but it is to pricy and it's another box in the truck like your videos thanks for doing them .
Rushed has zoomlock jaws now so the ridgid propress tool does everything from copper to zoomlock pex and megapress
Yes but how long will it hold
That looks like a Pro Press fitting...
Crimps and o rings have been in use a long time
5 years later, is this still holding?
I priced it its Abu
Out 3000 for the hand tool
The pressure act evenly if the pipe is long or short ,that is the pascal Law.
I just wonder will it hold up, over time.
Well the intro let me know that all of this zoomlock hysteria being pushed by HVAC youtubers is because you're being sponsored. At least you're upfront about it.
Just because somebody is sponsored doesn’t necessarily mean that the sponsored product doesn’t work. If the product produced a leak on a 8k install, I’m VERY sure any CZcamsr in HVAC would shout from the rooftops that the product is trash. Which is why I’m intrigued by the confidence on the zoomlock company.
Was a good tried. In my case I would cut the very end of the couple facing the unit
So it’s Goodman’s fault, because you want to try something??? Too funny!!!
I use them on water and heating lines. Plumbers call them pro press. That fitting you put on looked like the o ring just made it over the tubing. Kinda questionable considering all the vibrations has to handle.
This is different than pro press, it's for refrigerant.,
It took a min for me to figure out what you meant, when u said "bail" you meant bell, as in bell end. Good god your southern twang is twangy!! Should consider put sub titles on your videos.
Typical self righteous ...... You might consider soaking your head.....
Has it lasted to date 2023?
Could we leaked check it in 4 years
And how does it hold up when it get 100 it's in the summer and 30 below in the winter
@@Knee-Deep-in-Wisconsin yea let it vibrate while running
@@Knee-Deep-in-Wisconsin I went to Parker's FAQ site. HNBR O-rings are designed for 30yr service life, operating from as low as -40F to 300F, capable of working in high vibration environments. I'm not affiliated with Parker, hvac companies, not licensed for plumbing, hvac, electric. Just another diyer and curious. With many doubting Thomas' from plumbing and refrigeration, reading these comments made me question engineering and simply did some research..........
F Dryer thanks
true test pressure with 410a running in 100degree ambient vibration and flow back to compressor
What is ICP?
Why do you blame Goodman for the short copper stub from the valve? Someone else brazed the elbow where it was, then you cut if off. Not Goodmans fault and you also could have removed the panel for more room.
wow I sent a link to my boss about the zoomlock trying to get him to buy it soon
Looks like a neat tool, but a real headache when things go wrong. I'm not even considering cutting off a perfectly good bell end knowing that one bad move and... Rut Ro! Houston we have a cluster. Thanks, but, no thanks.
Why not use a 7/8 coupling and some staybrite 8.The stabrite uses less heat that silfos15 and no nitrogen is required with stay brite
That is definitely going to leak. Lmao
What happens when it fails and you have to remove the zoomlock piece and try to make a new connection?
You cut off the zoom lock and braze it😅
There's going to be a lot of vibration at that point I don't know
What tool is the one you are using to compress
It's a 2500 dollars tool my friend
Well somebody has to test the efficacy over time might as well be you!
Yes, Get a rheem. Then replace the coil later.
Stephen Reardon did a test on some pipe with it just barely in the o-ring.....check out his video...it held
When you showed 300 psi in that small pipe it gave me shivers - what happens if Zoomlock doesn't hold and this thing comes off straight into your leg :)))) I know, I know, but still scary :)
2:31 - Sorry to hear about that, mate
now if it does leak how do you fix it?
Simple it is a coupler, get out the torch and SilFos.
Ray Tinsman exactly! Now you've ruined a valve because you don't want to weld. Or can't?
They don't leak
@@Brandon-to9vp Any history of zoom locks in long term use and reports from the field?
Why would you cut it way back there when you could cut it after the 90 and put it out there where you could get to it easy?
gunlover1955 not enough pipe on the other side of the 90
You can put a new piece in there!!!
I'm a tech and I suck at brazing!! Period, just the way it is, we all work with guys who will tell you they are "perfect" at everything while at the same time griping about everything but not me I suck at it.
We pump down systems every day for whatever reasons and pumping down a system for a possible leaking o-ring as opposed to a rusting filter/dryer or rotted condenser coil or rusting evap supports is more then an acceptable risk statistically especially because of the cleanliness of the install, conversely a junior tech could be left alone during the condenser install portion if he understands exactly what standards are expected and the same of the evap portion, as God is my witness at this point my knees are screaming dragging that damn braze kit up into an attic, I'm all about this new technology.
I think brazing is a pain, and I garuntee no matter how good at brazing you are there will be contaminates in the system when heating copper.
@@misterindependent7994 not uf you braze with dry nitrogen
@@vihuelero1001 I don't care how much nitro you use. There's going to be copper oxide.
Very good
How much does the tool cost
Awesome
Use MaxiPro by Conex Banninger next time. Their ACR press fittings need less room thanZL and work with any press tool.
On the maxipro brochure it says they are only compatible with their tool and jaws... have you have luck with any more standard brands or jaws like Milwaukee or rigid ? We use Milwaukee m12 and m18 propress tools for copper plumbing with viega fitting and they look virtually identical to the maxipro fittings.
@@PhilScordato there are 2 size jaw kits for MaxiPro. One for the compact size press tools (M12 or RT200 series) or standard (M18 or RT300 series) size tools. Both jaw kits are tested and certified by Rothenberger who makes the jaw kits on these tools. Also, the MaxiPro jaw kits CAN be used on anyones water press fitting!! MaxiPro for the WIN!!!
Squeeze the big blue trigger slowly, or you creat bubbles
I understand that you like Zoom Lock because its fast and easy, but how about long term testing? In this video you mounted the Zoom Lock so close to the valves, that if something went wrong, you had no way of cutting it off and replacing the issue. I have had this issue many time with PEX plumbing fittings. Brazing is the only way to go in this instance. You have no long term way to know if that Zoom Lock will hold under the condensing units vibrations, or how long the O-Rings will last. O-Rings are a flexible material that will one day decompose and fail due to temperature and chemicals that surround them. We all do remember the Space Shuttle Challenger??
Brad, using the Challenger disaster isn't a good analogy as it was an anomaly that never occurred again. Technically you'd be correct. The solid rocket booster seals that failed were not designed to low temperature conditions. The technical guys with the company that designed the boosters knew the temperatures that day were too cold for safe use and warned the launch controllers of their concerns but the launch went anyway. The unusually cold weather shrunk the seals and when the boosters were fired up, extremely hot gases flowed around the shrunken seals and the rest is history. Every other launch took place is warm weather.
Whether or not zoom lock stands up to the rigors of refrigeration environments remains to be seen. Perhaps our European counterparts in the hvac industry have information.
Where are you from
Good vid John. I would feel much more comfortable brazing a small 6" piece on. If the service valve pipe coming out should be out of round" you'd be hard pressed. You'd probably have to go out and buy a valve.
dremel with cut off wheel, cut it, split it, remove the zoom-leaker, then braze/silver solder back onto it. ;)
It's a 1 1/2 Ton Payne
What about all the shavings from deburing
cleaned out with finger
പൊളിച്ചു 👌👌😎
You know that panel comes put easy right?
geoffrey dotson what does that even mean??
The lower panel on that condenser is removeable
Wrap pipe in tape to match bell. Then cut.
I would like to see a vid of two simialr techs go head to head, one brazing and one zoom locking to put the discussion of which is faster put to rest. There's just no way brazing is faster, great vid John keep em coming man.
Tyler Davidson faster isn't better.... Ever
Tyler Davidson, brazing is way fast and I'll smoke either one of use with a brazing torch, on one take, and not even cook that valve or the Schrader valve inside of it I'll even leave the Schrader core in there
Sorry but you cant use that in south florida, and if you think thats going to work in the long run you've obviously never done Refrigeration before, and I got a bridge in Brooklyn that can sell you real cheap
Why can't he sweat it and remove the fitting? And just braze. No need for zoomlock.
looks like it leaked to me.. 2 psi lost. freeze frame at 5:13 and 6:26.
He said it was at 300, it was actually shy. Then at 6.26 it was off the initial mark. You were right!
Dawn and water.
I can imagine water getting underneath of that fitting and when ambient gets below freezing that fitting will crack to the max.
ohh, a good point, although it should come out the open end
What's wrong with brazing again? Oh it's "too slow" I guess...
I could be done before he even gets the bell cut off.
Only takes a few minutes to braze it
and you know you can beat it flat with a hammer it won't leak.
Cool video tho
You could of took that unit apart and had plenty room
I don't care what anyone says, it will be a long long time before I trust zoom locks.
Your loss, mine has worked for three years now.
What did zoom lock ever do to you? 😂
Junk junk junk.....just throw a shark bite fitting on there in that case....
I hate Goodman heat pumps because they are so noisy!!
Lets see, SilFlos will last for EVER, O-Ring , rubber, expansion and contraction
I would give 3 years. Never happen ZoomLock. Is ZoomLock like 3000 dollars?
Holy shit, googled zoomlock, 3000 dollars, on amazon, ya right!
Ivansgarage I'm a skilled tradesman and I braze copper. Zoom lock is another system to let in un skilled labor, drive down our wages and basically let any ding dong do our job. I hope design build exclude this product on commercial and industrial installs. And keep the real work for skilled tradesmen.
Nor-Cal Refrigeration & H.V.A.C Really? I don't see plumbers (Propress) out of job?!?
You're talking about protecting the trade when you make CZcams videos showing how to perform our jobs.
I strongly disagree with that statement Dave.
Brent Ridley I'm spot on with my statement it's a tool to let un skilled labor do your job. Which in effect will keep wages down. 🎤 drop!!!!!!!❤️ also I show very little actual work in videos and do more explaining for young techs to help them out. Any monkey can zoom lock a tradesman knows how to braze.
Hack to the max :)
Nor-Cal Refrigeration & H.V.A.C So if I buy into your theory - carpenters, roofers, electricians, etc should all be out of work because Home Depot sells their supplies.
Mic drop? Don't think so. What DIY'er or Hack is going to spend $3k on a tool? Not very many.
Once again, kinda hypocritical coming from a guy who makes CZcams videos about the trade. You can't be on both sides of the fence.
But I'm okay with the videos just like I'm okay with the Zoomlock. Hacks and DIY's will always find a way - It's more money in my pocket when they call me to do it correctly.
This is just a friendly debate. I have a lot of respect for you Dave. You're a great technician. I don't want this to turn into a poo flinging contest!
One word , sazaw !
So fast so easy Wow
I use children's Bubbles! It's viscous and cheap
Lol really? I'm curious now
One word WHY? Think about it.
It doesn’t matter if it’s long or short, 300psi is 300psi..
When in doubt don't do it sounds like alot of doubt here
This just killed the game
I'll always braze.
Would be better if the manufacturers would stub out the copper from the factory and then let the installer decide whether to zoom lock it or braze it.
The manufacturer only cares about compacting small as possible with zero damage in shipping...
They will never try to be a Fren of service...
Greedy demoncrats all day long..
Sand cloth is to abrasive for zoom lock. 180 grit scotch Brit is what your to use. Also you need to check it with the no go/go gauge.