What Carl Jung's Most Important Book Tells Us
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- čas přidán 6. 06. 2024
- As part of our book club on CZcams, Hans Busstra has made a book review of ‘Answer to Job’ by Carl Gustav Jung.
Interviewees: Dr. Hans van den Hooff, Jungian psychoanalyst and Bernardo Kastrup PhD, philosopher and director of the Essentia Foundation.
Regarded by Jung as his most important work, Answer to Job is a tour de force in which classical Christian doctrine is turned upside down: Jung argued that the incarnation of Christ was not to redeem humanity for its sins against God, but to redeem God for his sin against Job.
In the Book of Job it became clear to Jung that Yahweh, though omniscient, had not consulted his own omniscience, remaining 'unconscious' of a dark side within himself-i.e. his fallen son Satan. In the language of analytic idealism: mind at large is not meta-cognitive.
In almost all of Christian theology the Book of Job is analyzed as an example of God's mysterious ways, his unfathomable masterplan for the universe. Ergo, Job suffers purposefully, but will never be able to grasp the higher divine reason of his suffering. Yet, Jung concluded exactly the opposite: Yahweh does not have a full picture, he is an amoral force of nature ‘that cannot see its own back.’ Job is morally superior to Yahweh as he does see the inner antinomy within Yahweh.
According to Jung, if held up to his own standards, Yahweh had sinned against Job, and Job subtly confronted Yahweh with this fact. This made the incarnation of Christ not a story about the redemption of humanity for its sins against God, but a redemption of God for his sin against Job.
To Hans Busstra, who has a Christian background, this ‘blasphemous’ analysis of Jung made a deep impact, in a positive sense. Though it is highly unlikely that the Church will ever accept Jung's reading, the new depth he saw in Christian mythology makes the tradition urgently relevant again for this day and age. Nature, God, Mind at Large becomes meta-cognitive through us, and this makes the human experience of crucial importance in our universe.
00:00 Intro
01:21 Did Jung believe in God?
03:33 Jung predicted the rise of the Nazi's through studying the unconscious
05:28 Brief summary of the Book of Job
07:09 God's unsatisfying answer to Job
10:31 The interaction between the Ego and the Self
13:33 God has no morality
17:59 The seminal importance of Job's interaction with Yahweh
18:59 Jesus died for God's sins...
22:42 God's dark side and the incongruity in Christianity
26:54 The clinical take-away from Answer to Job
29:47 What it means to Hans personally
32:15 The importance of Answer to Job according to Bernardo Kastrup
34:14 How Jung vindicate his father through this book
35:39 This is the book that can save Christianity!
37:12 What does Jung mean when he talks about Yahweh?
38:09 How Job made Yahweh more conscious
41:13 Satan, Yahweh and the work of Hegel
43:03 The evolution of Satan
44:31 On the feminine side of God: Sophia,Wisdom
51:02 The male versus the female archetype when it comes to God
54:24 The importance of Answer to Job to this day and age
1:00:20 Jung's idealist metaphysics
1:02:25 Closing remarks: how this book can save Christianity
Copyright © 2023 by Essentia Foundation. All rights reserved.
![What Happens When Physics and Philosophy Collide? | Bernardo Kastrup [Ep. 416]](/img/n.gif)
At time stamp 19:15 you avoid the concept of Yahweh committing sin. This is rooted in the Christian misunderstanding of the word sin because of the doctrine of original sin. The word sin is an archery term. To sin is to miss the mark. An archer can miss hitting the bulls eye 999 times, and that does not detract from hitting the bull's eye perfectly on the thousandth cast. In Job, Yahweh misses the mark, just as your example with your children. This actually makes the possibility of Christ's birth, death and resurrection resulting in a change in the fundamental way Yahweh / Jehovah relates to humanity a great possibility. Living the life of Christ perhaps allows Yahweh to live a life that morality is integrated into while still being fire and direct action (money changers in the temple) Michael on a white horse with a sword in its mouth at the end of days. Not a change but a maturing reflected in humanity itself.
Don't you wish Christians would read the bible, even Jesus Christ says faith is worthless if you can't move mountains by the magic of it & your verbal landscaping commands.
@@Stupidityindexno names..jesus was fake.never existed same as dinosaurs
jebuz son of lucifer lucy jr lucy😅😅😅😅
I was astonished when I read recently that the word ‘sin’ isn’t in the Bible. I studied Bible Greek (koine) in my youth and was impressed that all the words translated as ‘sin’ were explanations, of what sin is. Suddenly, I saw it in reverse. The archery word you refer to (hamartia) is only one. ‘Amplus’ is another and means not simple but wadded up like a piece of cloth. Another means adulterated or no longer pure as milk might be. Thus, the words become a guide to a holy life rather than a condemnation. In the same vein, the Heston-thundering “thou shalt” and “thou shalt not” are simple future tense-“you will” or “you will not”, more like a caressing promise that you can conquer the impulses that deter you from a holy path.
(Excuse any Greek mis-transliterations. It’s been a while. I’m now closer to dotage than youth.)
Why bother missing in the first place?
I almost had a stroke listening to this😢 my Christian upbringing was fighting like hell… I love this conversation, I wish I could discuss this with my fellow Christians.
Might be best to wait for an opening like when the sermon is about God being a sinner. 🤔
The video is 100% right to point out that no Christian preacher is ever honest about the obvious morality of the creator in the story of Job. Any honest and compassionate person has to accept that Job was treated with terrible injustice inflicted by a supposedly all powerful, all knowing and beneficent creator being.
I have always been deeply troubled by this and have found that the only “Christian” theologians to address this glaring contradiction are the Gnostics.
Jung didn’t flaunt his Gnostic inclinations publicly because they are an affront to prevailing religious mores.
Jung wore ancient Gnostic gems and also had a famous ancient heretical scripture named in his honour. The Jung Codex was dedicated to him.
As Christian. No issues listening to this. As far as Im concerned Jesus is the way to life.
@@Xaphino and Jung is the way to death. Jung is a heretic, occultic, necromancer and got all his theories dictated to him by demons of satan that instructed him to destroy people's faith in Jesus Christ and instead lift The Self above God. Jung is evil.
As a fellow Christian,that is a student of Jesus’ doctrine, I am reminded that in the 6th Chapter of Genesis God repents of His creation of not only Man but of all living creatures and determines to wipe them all out with a flood. He grieves over this and then decides to spare Noah who was just and perfect. What are your thoughts on what this means for us as Christians?
As the prayer states”…Lead us not into temptation” a classic clue of the darkness
This is one of the channels that gave me the courage to start my CZcams channel 8 months ago about self development. Now I have 937 subs and > 800 hours of watch time. I know it’s not comparable with others but I’m still proud I started because I’ve been learning so many lessons that I could haven’t learned without getting started in the 1st place.
All the best with your channel! And those first 1k subs are the hardest you are almost there!
@@essentiafoundation Whoever you are, I don't know you personally but I can say that you're one of the non-judgmental and open-minded people who is not fixated on tangible or external factors in order to learn from someone like me. Just because someone doesn't have a piece of paper as a credential, doesn't mean that person is not entitled to share personal experiences with the hope & intention to inspire others. Keep up with whatever it is that you're doing to improve mankind or improving your life even to a slight degree each day. This is just one part of a bigger puzzle for creating my CZcams channel about holistic health. I literally could have died back when I was 14 years old due to major depression but here I am right now replying to you, a CZcamsr, who's full of fulfillment and dedication to help others to be a better version of themselves. I ain't better than anyone else but my old self. That's all that really makes this CZcams thing more meaningful and enjoyable. Thanks so much for your support! I am hoping that you can join me with this endless personal development journey! :)
I am amazed at the quality of this video and the amount of time that it required. Thank you for this! The recent uploads from Essentia Foundation have truly impressed me.
Grateful for these and Essentia!! You are doing things I don’t see elsewhere and helping grow this broader view thank you!!
The most profound sentence spoken about God/Yahweh, in my opinion, is one I heard in a play, depicting Jewish prisoners in a German concentration camp discussing how their God could allow them to suffer such horror.
One of the characters says ' God was never good....he was just on our side.'
Very glad to find this channel. As someone who born in china and moved with young ages to a western country, I learned to adapt and believed that the western dualistic way of thinking was superior. I was baptized in the chirch, after noticed the power structure within the protestant community, I came in contact with the heavily flawed postmodernism as a student. I noticed that a lot of the modern divisions are rooted in the dualism view of the Christianity and its extrem counter-movements. Where the essence of the believe can judge and questioning everything but its own core(ego). And now I'm slowly find my root back in Taoism, which Jung also mentioned alot in his books. I discovered there is a lot of parallels with other indigenous spiritual practices, like the holistic contemplation, that the nurture should serve and learn from the nature. I do think a holistic approach is the way out of the suffering created by separation of the two brains. Yet we human like simple stories to learn new things, and those stories always have a good and a bad guy😂
The first direct contact I had with Jung's work was Answer to Job some 25 years ago, having left the church a few years earlier in search of more complete answers to my questions about life. My immediate response was that the book was both blasphemous and correct. It thrilled me and frightened me simultaneously. I loved it and have never looked back. This video is an excellent discussion of the work.
Okay. You have both immediately sold me. Buying asap haha. Namaste 🙏☸
What are some of the questions you had that the bible couldnt answer?
@@TheAhmetcanizationin a nutshell, I began to question the literal interpretation of biblical stories that my evangelical church adhered to. Eventually, after a great deal of thinking and reading, I summed up my conclusions in one sentence: Literalism is the language of childhood.
@@doughaynes4329Do you consider yourself still spiritual or now spiritual?
@@deirdremorris9234 Yes. Moreso all the time. I clearly remember having the sense, once I had let go of my literalism, that I had let God out of the box. Whatever the Source may be, it was no longer confined to my limited ideas. So it has become a journey of unending discovery that has no room for complacency on my part. Uncertainty, it turns out, is much more satisfying than certainty.
I am so thankful for this video because it is speaking to my heart to the obviously missing points that I always feel but never was clear enough to explain and argue about. I Thanks for everybody in this video for this great hour of help - It may saved me years of work and doubt ! And the positive view for everybody in the end. Great job , job 😂 And what you made out of it. Blessings to all of you from germany 🇩🇪 I read the book in the original right now !
Wow this is perfect timing. Just finished Answer to Job based on Bernardos recommendation. It was very powerful, as I am going though a deconstruction process of my previously fundamentalist beliefs. It is very beautiful, but I have to say, a lot of the book I have not yet understood.
This is such a great moment to see this video pop up. Cannot wait to watch this. Thank you already.
Welcome to the new advent, brother. Peace and wholeness be with you.
I hope your journey is beautiful!
May I suggest reading the book out loud? I often times will understand something better if I do that. 🎉
@deirdremorris9234 Listening even to oneself reading aloud is radically different than reading. It’s easier to listen if someone else is doing the reading AND it’s also easier to remain concentrated on and receptive to what is being read during reading aloud oneself. The root difference in listening I think has to do with how much older in evolutionary terms the brain/mind functions for spoken language are than the written word which requires a kind of “add on” functioning of analytical mind. In my experience the difference is that the spoken word carries more influence into embodiment and feeling, and this translates more easily into effecting change and action.
Consider the power of storytelling while even if read silently as a story its characters, events evoke our own participation, reflection and meaning making/narrative generation. Listening even to something that’s not “a story” I feel brings more of this sort of engagement with the communication. So, I find it best for hearing say scripture, dharma… True Inspiration
The best exposition of C G Jung's work , thank you so much from the bottom of my heart
Amazing conversation! Thank you for sharing.
Great video and compliments on the production quality... excellent job!
I'm very impressed by the quality of the videos being put out by Enssentia Foundation. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Thank you so much ❤
Thank you for creating this video. Much appreciated!
Thank you , i am 3years into a dark night of the soul , much hardships and confusion . but i always know i am on a journey into my understanding . This program has been very inspiring . i am ordering the book right now , as it seems to have touched on my own journaling notes and thoughts about it all . This will definitely be a huge piece for me . cheers
Blessings on your journey, dude, you are not alone. Persevere.
Really grateful if this video helped! And 'dark nights of the soul' are exactly what we unavoidably have to go through if we want to become whole, at least that is what Jung is teaching me. All the best on your hero's journey!
bless you i hope you have a journey , it’s not going to be easy , but you can and will get through it , i’ve been in a dark night of the soul for 10 years
Yahweh is not God. He is was an Elohim. Hebrew scholar Mauro Biglino speculates that the Elohim were just a technologically advanced, long-lived humanoid species that were treated like God's by the backward indigenous population in the lands they were colonising. Yahweh was originally just one of a pantheon of gods, originally being the pre-monotheistic desert god of thunder.
According to the I Ching (the book of changes) - perseverance furthers...
What a profound talk ❤️🔥😭 holy crap 😂 I wasn't ready. Thank you both 😘
Yes funny perfect timing for this. I just came back home from Swedagon Pagoda for Thitinguyt festival. I had a very strong spiritual experience as i discovered a spiritual community in a hidden side area to the Western gate. The community welcomed me in and it brought me to tears. I always love Bernardo so I subscribe to this channel. This video was in my notifications list when i came home last night. It was his talk with the Swami of the NYC vedanta society that opened the path. And now suddenly I live and work in Myanmar. Incredible what happens once one hears the call and keeps learning and inquiring thoruhg all methods.
i had a message JUST for me liek 2 yeasr ago, and STILL gaining more iundeerstanding as i know nothing on the esoterics of COR, but watched a chrion last video on COR then went to golden corral with the church but GOLDEN RAL was BURNT OUT and ONLY thing lit was "COR" as if it was a pacic sign for me and me alone and still serching for more understanding.
Thank you for this great conversation. Very insightful.
Just wanted to say -
You’re doing a great job
The interviewees are terrific
Will read the books you recommend
Thank you.
Keep up your good work in asking questions many are afraid to ask but more importantly, asking the RIGHT questions.
Keep helping raise our individual awareness
Cheers from Sydney, Australia!
Paul
I highly recommend you read Jung's writings on the "Shadow"archetype.
It will bring this insightful discussion to another level of awareness.
I concur. Jung's work on the shadow self should be teached in schools.
Amazing interview! More of these please, the world needs to understand themselves more deeply! more Jung :)
Thus was very well done! Thank you!
The work this channel puts on the table is really fascinating
Yes yes yes, hell is where you have to confront your actions against others. This is a thought I have had for so many decades. Ty
Yes, and how about oneself as well?
@51:00 The discussion explores the concept of the male representing “Perfection” and the female representing “Completeness” which is poetic because the etymology of the word “Perfect” is “Completion.”
Jung was expressing the idea that the dualities complete each other perfectly.
Thank you for making this video! ❤
Love It! It was great to listen to you.❤
Had this video recommended to me after watching a video on Carl Jung's depiction of the dark night of the soul. Had I the means, I would return to school to study philosophy. All of this is absolutely fascinating.
Book pdfs off the internet will suffice for now. In fact, I just started reading Answer to Job. Really excited by the insights I myself will derive from it.
@clif high Sister Christian video.
This video, to me, specially the dialogs with Kastrup are what the japanese word “Umami” means philosophically.
The feeling is what I picture when I think of a really good glas of brandy or sliding into a warm bathtub after a cold day outside.
I enjoyed this so much.
truly Wonderfull conversation and video.
The most wonderful gift is to know our true essence. Great videos!
In my humble opinion Jung's most important book is The Seven Sermons to The Dead of course this is the Gnostic Jung talking to us the people trapped in the mental low vibrational world of materialism. When Jung discovered the Gnostics he went and purchased what became known as the Jung Codex and this is what he said about them:
“I have worked all my life to know the psyche - and these people knew already.”
Carl Gustav Jung to Giles Quispel after reading The Gospel of Truth which
both men agreed was the most beautiful and most important document in the
Jung Codex.
Agreed. The Seven Sermons is probably the metaphysics behind all Jung's empirical work.
There's something to it. I legit found out all of a sudden 😅
I'm an 11 that didn't unalienable themselves and went through INTENSE hazing several times.
Imagine ending up in jail and having to "sample" which criminal group younger supposed to be apart, meaning I got "rundowns" for all he races in jail and was ultimately not included in violence because nobody could tell what side I'd be on 😂
And stranger things, cool, reasonable, but strangely so 😅
Wow!This is seminal for western spirituality and awakening. To reframe our old and dead religion in this life and see the symbolism that is still alive even if old and literal understandings have long withered away. Thank you for sharing this.
Dead? In privileged, bored, distracted western countries that is an exaggeration. In relation to more realistic and grounded places like Africa and South and Central America, Christianity is expanding and rather vibrant
@@patricksee10 What part of the Western world are you referring to? USA? It varies a lot from country to country. Here in Scandinavia, Christianity is fading out. Like Bernardo says, churches are pretty much museums.
@@ximono you are in a crisis of atomistic thinking and loss of community and meaning. A culture of self destruction and death has come over your society, this is associated with your atheism
@@patricksee10Is it? I mean,I dont actually know, but Ive seen some rather charasmatic videos of African churches that perform ridiculous rituals with the name Christian attached to it.
@@ximonoI'm Brazilian (South America) and Christianity is still pretty strong here.
Thank you... I really needed to see and hear and know bout this.
Thank you so much for this insightful video and the heartfelt sincerity conveyed
Answer to Job was a life changing read for me.
Thank you for all of this. I am a former Roman Catholic priest who entered the seminary before the use of the Internet. Listen to Depeche Mode’s “Blasphemous Rumors”, or XTC’s “Dear God”. Take care.
Look at you , Depeche Mode 😂. I’m teasing you but really coming from a former catholic priest it’s pretty cool
@@MrPaytonw34 and so the plot thickens. (16 in ‘83 on Long Island, New York. This all before my Augustinian conversion at 28.) All the best to you Mr. Payton. 🙂
Dear God I don't believe I can't believe I wont beilve in you ....Dear God..
So good. @@tammylahnen7677
Thanks for such a great video on the topic! ❤
Amazing video! Thank you very much!
I have often been angry at God and this video relieved some of that anger and I can be more forgiving after hearing your take on God and the Book of Jobe. Thank you
Were you raised by A single mom?
Jesus says, that only through forgiveness do you enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Which He said was all around us but most of us do NOT see it, because we are asleep spiritually.
Excellent video. Another fascinating perspective on Job is Rene Girard's short book "Job: The Victim of His People"
Then it's time for me to check that out.
10/10 this was great! Perfect timing. God is watching you. Merci.
Great video man. I first read this 5 years ago and I’m currently reading it again. It’s making more sense now too. Thanks.
I adore unconscious answers that appear directly on a lapel, such as the overwhelmingly obvious sigil on Dr. Van den Hoof's microphone which lays directly across his heart, a cross his heart. Yahweh's transmogrification into the imminence of Christ, healing the malignant narcissism of Jehovah God by becoming light itself and renouncing his own sin of egomaniacal non -individuation to the revelation of his own innate consciousness through Job. It's there plain as day. A new dawn.
I felt like I was there in person partaking in the discussion! ❤
Hats off to Essentia for hiring Hans... :) Fantastic and important content, thanks for producing this. Lots to think about.
Thank you for this film!
This was beautiful… Bernardo’s work had/has the same impact on my life, as it clearly having on yours…
Perfect timing for a this “lesson”
“Now, let us go into the silence”
As a parent to a group of very diverse personality children who pay me back for the endless services that I provide and, who challenge my own being by calling me mom and claiming to love me and ofcourse celebrating mothers day ones a year, I can honestly say that I derive day to day strength to make sense of it all in relating to these people, my kids; by reflecting on my emotional turmoils as a child. Without it I will not be conscious on my power over my kids and to what extent I can cause them suffering instead of being their all knowing protector and provider of which our relationship ought to be based on and or according to those who we inherit our ideas from. I have always felt the same since I had kids. Not even sure why I had them upto today other than I do, and I gather energy daily to serve them just as my parents did😂. Who ispiress God in terms of knowing how to relate to people who he may have created like I did without intention? ❤ Just meditating on God with everyone here.
Stop calling them my "kids."
It’s a multi-faceted dynamic, the parent-child one. And equally is the human-God one.
@@beverleytheglobalcaregiverforuwhat? Why?
And then sometimes our children reject us entirely. And the transformation for us is to recognize that they have the right to do so, and then to (within ourselves), grant them the freedom to do so -- and to love them still, without measure, without having any expectations that they will ever return.
I found your channel today! Brilliant! Bravo I'm hooked!!!
Your channel is introducing me to so much to contemplate. TY.
I can't help but think that Jung was influenced here by gnostic writings that he was a big fan of. Gnostics were Christians who adopted parts of Middle Platonism and saw God/Yaweh as the same as Plato's demiurge. But they held to a bastardization of Plato''s demiurge, and saw the creator God as a flawed and lesser god, accounting for the evil that inhabits all of physical creation. This view of Plato's God and its creation was much darker than the one that prevailed over the 800 years that Platonism was dominant in the classical world. Later late Platonism, also called Neo-Platonism, had an extremely positive view of the One, the divine first principle, also called "the Good." But then, Jung is writing an allegory, with Yahweh representing the collective unconscious, nature's mind, signifying the process that we - as both part of nature and part of God, part ego and part higher Self - often go through.
Jung isn't chasing gnosis, or perceiving it as the highest state of consciousness or spirituality, his is more of a death n rebirth concept integrating the shadow shelf which is scary but is better for you because your more aware. "Ignorance is bliss" So don't chase that feeling
Lovely insight. Any CZcams source you recommend for further elaboration on this topic?
@@cavejelly Sure - there is a fellow who does excellent videos on esoteric topics - his channel is "Let's Talk Religion." His two videos that are most related to the above, if memory serves, are "Neo-Platonism" if you want a survey of Middle and Late Platonism, aka Neo-Platonism, the latter of which represents a synthesis of the best of classical philosophy in one coherent and refined system, and is the most influential philosophy in the West, bar none. The video which includes a section on the effect of Middle Platonism on the Gnostics would be "Neo-Platonism and Christianity." If you want something on the Platonic nature of Jung's writing - much of Jung's theory seems to be thorough going Platonism with scientific sounding names and labels attached - check out the book, "Platonic Jung and the Nature of Self," by Jane Weldon. The author is a Jungian psychoanalyst with a strong background in philosophy.
There were several so-called Gnostic version many not unfaithful to Platonist ideas. Marcion for example completely accepted the supreme creator „the monad“ but not Yaweh which he called the demiurge.
The Platonists claimed that the supreme creator God was the Monad, which is derived from Pythagoreanism, which created the Forms, while a subordinate divine entity, the Demiurge, shaped the material world. And Plato believed the material world that which appears to our senses was a world of shadow and deception. The official heresy of the Marcionites was that they were accused of „following Empedocles“, who was considered a God-man by Greeks, especially because of their rejection of all of Judaism.
Gnosticism was not a movement, it was an accusation by other Christian sects. So there were several types of „Gnostic“. The Ebionites are the polar opposite of the Marcionists but also accused of Gnosticism meaning „secret knowledge“. They did not believe Yaweh was the demiurge, and strictly held to Jewish law but believed Jesus was an Adam Kadmon, the undivided Hermaphroditic Adam, therefore closer to God. They were not Platonists.
@@leeds48 thank you!
I'm reading it now along with a guidebook by Edward Edinger "Transformation of the God Image" which for me, gives lots of helpful context and elucidation. Thank you for this instructive video.
Works by Edward F. Edinger are exceptional. Recommend reading 'Satan in the Old Testament'' by Rivkah Scharf Kluger. Jung was very impressed with Kluger's thesis.
A fascinating discussion that helped me to confront issues I had with Christianity over twenty years ago as a theology undergraduate. I had found the book of job one of the scandalous problems that faith has to deal with. It represents a moment of tragic conflict in the history of God. I wish, for my own growth, that I had looked closer at Jung. Thank you for a most enlightening video.
Thank you. Fantastic video that really helped me a lot. I will review it again I am sure.
I love Job - Job asks why and god sidesteps- he can't say he made a bet so he huffs and puffs over his greatness, what a guy
Lol literally. "Made a bet with the devil despite being omniscient and knowing the outcome in advance. Hope you find your new family ok, because I can't even care to resurrect your old one"
Wrong!
This book and Carl Jung in general also have had a profound impact on me in much the same way as you describe for yourself. I think it is time for Carl Jung's Blasphemous Church of Christ to arise. Thank you for this video!
The Jungian Reformation
I was very moved by this video. I loved it. Thank you for this articulation. I’ve purchased the book.
Very deep and interesting view on the subject, thanks!
I've read Answer to Job and also the Book of Job (Bible), and while I find Jung's interpretation a bit of a stretch, it certainly is fascinating and has much value.
Jung stretches everyone
It's a personal voyage only you can take it. What is the most subjective truth of all ?
Only a mystic would not be stretched
Is there such a possibility of infinite stretch? Mmm...or does everything have a breaking point? And then what happens? You have to die--break--before can be born anew. And then you commence in yet another cycle (a higher one) of stretching.
@@vikingz2000 The ride of the eternal nightmare.
I think Jung was wrong here. People who have had NDE experiences said that while they were on the other side they undestood the meaning of everything which they were not capable to concieve once they returned to this realm. Jung is pegging anthropomorphic characteristics onto God. Just because we can't see or know why, does not necessarily imply God is unconscious and unknowing. If God exists by definition he must be the opposite of anything with limits. Including knowledge.
Such a important revelation. Thank you for this.
That summary of 'Answer to Job' was pure gold! The moment Bernardo dropped the book in his video '10 ESSENTIAL reads with Bernardo Kastrup,' I snagged it and devoured the whole thing in one go-more like a study session than a casual read. This video is practically a love letter to Jung's brilliance.
Hats off to Hans Busstra; the dude nailed it! The Essentia Foundation is slowly but surely becoming my spiritual HQ. Love you guys
Thanks so much for this!! And I'm working hard on new videos like these, comments like these are a boost!!
@@essentiafoundation You can really feel the effort you put into the videos. Smooth and intelligent cuts, great questions, highly asthetic and artistic. Exactly what this type of great topics deserves
I see Jesus as a metaphor for all of our lives. So in this perspective you speak of at 40:08 in a sense we all are dying for God's unconsciousness in order for him to become conscious of it through our lives. Our suffering is not in vain for we too shall be resurrected in his glory.
Thanks for this, there much here to think through! I think there is lots Christians (myself included) can learn form Jung’s interpretation of Job, even if they reject his ultimate conclusion (E.g. Christ died for God’s sins). It seems right that the Book of Job is the pivotal book in the Old Testament. I agree with Jung that God’s answer to Job is unsatisfying. What is revealed is the irreconcilable gulf between God and Job’s human understanding. Job even says: ‘If only there were someone to mediate between us, someone to bring us together […] (9.33).’ But I take it that the complete answer to Job comes in to the New Testament. We still don’t understand God the Father’s ways, but God himself enters into creation and suffers like us. We can understand Christ and come to the Father through him (John 14.6).
How do you feel that understanding Christ has made you understand god better?
Are we in agreement that Christ is our being? That the Universe is an appearance within a single being? My view of the Bible is that Christ is a name for our being, the I am presence. And Jesus is the name for the appearance of our being in the world as a person which Jacob recognized when he saw himself as the face of God and confessed I am Jacob and was given the new name Israel which means one who contends with God. 🙏
Be careful with doctrine that reject God, because it mean it will reject God in the end
Satan will infiltrate Chruch with whatever tricks he can use
If you don't understand better pray to God and let him answer than believe in man
Thank you! I have read answer to Job. Your video was greatly helpful to my understanding of it. Now I must reread it.
Beautifully done. the realisation at 19.00 is shattering.
Perhaps we are the way God experiences Self consciousness. God becoming aware of Itself. All without a separarte entity, like the concept of advaita.
One thing Jung made us aware that there is definitely a spiritual world interacting with humankind.
Indeed, demonic spirits calling the shots at the moment, I had no awareness of the spirit until I seen a demon manifest in a stalker of mine. I was not relegiousbin any way.
You haven't read his works then. It's all about human psyche, everything happens within us and all gods and fairies are archetypes
@@uchicha666"666"... ? Anyways, Jung considered himself agnostic.
Love this video 🔥 very well done guys!
Thank you so very much!!!!!🙃🙏🤗🤗
Very interesting discussion. Suffering is the "hard problem" of religion, for sure. However it's odd that Jung's collective unconscious is being viewed here just in terms of the Christian/Jewish myth, which isn't shared by other religions, thus undermining its claim to collective universality. The creative flow from the non-dual Self to the multiplicity of egoic selves results in the polarities of the collective unconscious manifesting in nature and hence the inevitability of suffering in the state of ignorance (of one's true nature - the Self). Being non-dual, the Self is both yin and yang and neither, both and neither good or evil (the Tao that can be named is not the real Tao). I think this view of the Godhead makes It seem less psychotic and ignorant than Jung's "analysis" would suggest.... PS there's also an asymmetry in critical polarities - darkness is the absence of light, ignorance of knowledge, evil of goodness. So maybe God is pure love, goodness and beauty after all...
Exactly what I thought. Yahwe is not universal because there is the Brahman.
Jung did not dismiss Eastern religion or other religious ideas. But he focused mainly on the myths whether the Abrahamic religions or European fairytales and legends. And he did not do this out of ethnocentrism but out of the belief that culture creates the specific contents and language of the psyche, but the psyche can spontaneously produce entirely „other“ images akin to other traditions.
Jung also emphasize what he called the restoration of the persona, for Western people. Because the Eastern tradition emphasized the encounter with the Self, Atman as the destination of which one is outside of conventional society, a holy person.
Jung emphasized a return. In traditional Vedantism one gives up their traditional role and even their name.
A westerner who combined both perspectives was Ramm Dass who famously said, „it’s great to reach enlightenment but it’s also nice to know your address.“ Which IMO sums up the issue nicely.
I only have admiration for the careful study and introspection the two of you share with us.
Fantastic video, very interesting. And thanks to Bernardo for the recommendation, I finished the book a few days ago.
"This is I, the creator of all the ungovernable, ruthless forces of Nature, which are not subject to any ethical laws. I, too, am an amoral force of Nature". So does the Bible actually say this, or is it just Jung's interpretation of the story of Job? If the Bible doesn't state anywhere, or if it isn't a given, that God has an amoral nature, then Jung's reasoning seems to proceed from a flawed basis. Reaching the conclusion that God isn't aware of the evil created is also contradictory since God is by definition omniscient. Frankly, this seems like an exercise in silly heresy.
This is not a Bible quote, but quoted from Answer to Job (p26). Jung's analysis was that though God is indeed by definition omniscient he did not 'consult' his own omniscience, in that regard, according to Jung, Satan was in a sense more 'conscious' that Yahweh.
Carl Jung is a self-proclaimed heretic who practiced divination, necromancy and spiritism. He conversed with demons that instructed him that Christ needed to go and it became time for a new 'myth'. Sounds like what the Anti-Christ would say. Oh and Jung also thought he became God and therefor he could teach people to elevate themselves to Gods, undermining Christ. He is a blasphemous heretic possessed by demons. What could go wrong?
I think that is something buddhism has given me that christianity didn't. That unity between the opposites and incorporating that loving (meta) aspect to practice (great analogy of a bird, one wing is love and the other wing Is logic and wisdom. It can't really fly without either). I still struggle, because habitually I want perfectionism from myself in an absolute good sense (hangover from my lutheran upbringing) and want to side step my shadow. Needless to say, I see the inevitable swing of the pendulum in the other direction. Your essay and conversations really struck an elegant point around this.
Thanks so much as always for your work. Will be revisiting this one again once I finish reading Answer to Job.
God what God. Why do so many believe in the invisible man. This god has never done anything to protect anyone. Why is he invisible. I don't understand why a being that supposedly created all seem and unseen. How come he F.... d up where earth and us are concerned. I can't believe in a being that does absolutely nothing for his creation. Our God, it feel like he's the Anti. Can anyone dispute this. If true at least the jesus character came and tried. Religion was of it's time, it's fadeing out, thank god 😅
Wow, that was something totally unexpected and new to me, thank you for sharing!
Well done. Thank-you
I guess you get the God you get and not the god you want.
I would love to see a conversation between Jordan Peterson and Bernardo Kastrup. It is so evident that conversation has to happen.
i think Jordan Peterson is now a "believer" just for political benefits ...
Amazing content, thank you❤
This is really my first introduction to Jung's thought. I am surprised to find that my life has prepared me to appreciate and in a way resonate to all of the content of this presentation. It is as of you and your guests are verbalizing knowing that I am aware of but would struggle to put into words that could convey it. I must read Answer to Job and also Bernatdo Castro's book. Thank you for vreating and sharing this video.
Its always like this. This is the law of the spiritual path. As they say "when the disciple is prepared, the teacher (book...) comes.
I love Jung and understand his dilemma, as I have struggled with the same in my own personal epic tragedy....yet what truly saved me is knowing that 1. God manifested in Jesus His utmost love toward humans as the most loving Father, 2. How He became man, like Job, Jung and you and me...inhering bodily all the streams of biological network of DNA epigenetic markers, and 3. Suffering like no one else has suffered on the cross to redeem me and 4. ultimately making me in His own image capable of giving of my self like He did; and 5. Ultimately, demonstrating to Spiritual beings in heavenly realm, like satan, that yes! Man, even fable and weak, can (by His grace) freely give of himself, in love to redeem his fellow humans.
What if the scripts are apocryphal? Have you ever considered the logical probability of that
I truly don’t mean to sound so critical but in all of those words I hear only repeated dogmas and nothing of any true value or insight. And I am not one to write off belief or the gospels. I always approach it with genuine seriousness. However, I just don’t see how the comment is a response to anything said in this video. It’s just a declaration of maybe a personal revelation worded in the same exact language it always is. This is troubling to me, because as a teacher will always ask you to repeat what you’ve learned in your own words to show a true understanding of what’s being said is vital, and since this is so rare in such cases of declarations of faith, this sort rings hallow to my ears. To be completely honest, and this is not to agitate, it always pops up in places where it feels like a knee jerk reaction by those afraid to explore thoughts that they are conditioned to immediately reject as potentially blasphemous or making someone uncomfortable to even think about, which is something to consider.
I like Jesus and find much value in Christ but I agree, when I see people repeat what I heard for my whole life it doesn’t ring as wise.
It seems to me Jesus represents ourselves individually and all the characters in the Bible represent different states of mind for ourselves individually. Christ is our awareness, I am presence of being. Rev. 1-5 I am the faithful witness and the first begotten of the dead. The dead would be the person we appear to be. Christ is the life of the body, our being. 🙏
I’d love to hear a Jewish perspective on this. Considering how many Jewish jungians there are, there’s got to be some considered opinions.
I'm only half Jewish but look: historically and even today: non-jewish cultures have a cancerous collective mind virus. They have the every man should be kicked out at age 18 and while the boot print of his parents is still outlined in a red bruise on his back he must pull himself up by his own bootstraps to make a way. Naturally, these cultures end up with collective debt they can't service and they collapse cyclicly. The knuckleheaded economic types with their proud summa cum laude degree from places like The University of Maryland make a living off of writing papers conjecturing why capitalism has this cyclical deficit. Always telling themselves it is just a matter of the correct theory in monetary policy that is needed. While in the Jewish culture the progeny are properly educated, and given a cushion upon which to start out in the world free from the strangling obligation to borrow money at usurious rates. So, it is very sad what happens when the fools foul their societies up so drastically that when they are walking about aimlessly with wild aimless eyes and they notice that the Jewish folk are doing just fine it is a troubling propensity built in to the limited and generally misused, I'll maintained, and fragile human mind to seek a scapegoat. You can challenge me if you want. I won't be happy to go on long enough to fill in every putative hole here and neither will you by the time I finish. But you can if you want to have a go.
All religions at its core has one simple msg thrs only God and the knower of our expirence is that which everyone is looking for. One can be that but can't find it because it's not an object of thought.
❤ in Kabbalistic perspective the only thing in creation is that which was created, which is is the willingness to receive Love/Divine Pleasure. Because of Creators Will/Desire to give Divine Pleasure/Love in the Image of Divine Design in order to Create creatures that would in turn learn to create and so become Creators also. And the essence of Creator is Light in 4 Forms of Giving & Receiving represented in
HVHY hOur WHY~ The Spirit/IntentIIIon behind all we Cree8... BEHOLD THE HAND BEHOLD THE NAIL❤ in 46:52 Love & Trust in Divine Plan🗽🌈⚡🧬🦋💞In Light o 46:36 OneLove 🕉️☯️♾️🌄
Jews worship Satan the reptile God Yahweh so your wasting your time.
Kabbalah speaks about God's dark side coming from God's Judgment and Envy.
Just got this book but not started reading it yet. Thanks for this.
Fascinating topic!
Thank you! 🙏
thank you for sharing. keep well ☆
Thank you for the video, very good. I will read the book.
When I knew you guys were going to record this video, I mustered up the courage to read Answer to Job. Now watching the video I feel the effort of reading it was worth it
Really wonderful video! I'm looking forward to getting my own Red Book soon ❤🎉
I've watched this video twice this month since finding the video a few months ago. I love the alternative take on Jung's interpretation of the Job story.
Would love a discussion on paradise lost :)
Brilliant, thank you.
thank you for this video
This is a great discussion, I am quite happy to see such a resurgence in serious interest in Jung
Amazing video!
Fantastic - many thanks
Sounds like exactly the book I have been looking for. I will begin reading it immediately