The Evolutionary Psychology Of Human Friendship - Robin Dunbar
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- Robin Dunbar is an anthropologist, evolutionary psychologist, head of the Social and Evolutionary Neuroscience Research Group at the University of Oxford and an author.
Most animals need friends to survive. But no other animal has as layered and complex a social life as humans. The last 2 million years from trees to plains to apartments has caused huge changes to the setup of our social groups, and it's a fascinating story.
Expect to learn why any group size over 90 ends up with more people being killed than being born, why men don't have a best friend forever but women do, the link between human brain size and social groups, how male and female friendships differ, why the modern world has the most loneliness ever, what the single largest impact on your health is and much more...
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#evolution #friends #psychology
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00:00 Intro
00:18 Why Humans, Monkeys & Apes Have Huge Brains
05:18 How Human Social Groups Evolved
13:39 How Group Dynamics Impact Fertility
28:30 Why Living in a Big City is an Evolutionary Mismatch
45:08 How Did We Get From Small Tribes to Larger Settlements?
52:58 The Evolutionary Struggles of Growing Groups
1:02:01 Differences Between Male & Female Friendships
1:17:41 Why Men Think Women Are Attracted to Them
1:22:47 Where to Find Robin
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Hello you beauties. Get my free Reading List of 100 life-changing books - chriswillx.com/books/. Here’s the timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:18 Why Humans, Monkeys & Apes Have Huge Brains
05:18 How Human Social Groups Evolved
13:39 How Group Dynamics Impact Fertility
28:30 Why Living in a Big City is an Evolutionary Mismatch
45:08 How Did We Get From Small Tribes to Larger Settlements?
52:58 The Evolutionary Struggles of Growing Groups
1:02:01 Differences Between Male & Female Friendships
1:17:41 Why Men Think Women Are Attracted to Them
1:22:47 Where to Find Robin
"You beauties"? Now that sounds somewhat weird...
Sound quality from the guest not good
Sometimes it seems like everyone I know has a bunch of friends they speak to and do stuff with. I lost touch with all my school friends about 5 years after school happened, and haven’t replaced them since. I feel like I’m missing out on a huge part of life but can’t seem to bring myself to make a huge effort with people I’d like to be friends with.
To make friends easier a common interest or a hobby is always beneficial as a starting ground. Think about what you love doing and then go on an app that offers experiences buy a ticket to whatever event you like and go there and just say.. Hi I'm (name). And then ask something about your common interest you're currently both enjoying. People are so lonely these days, you guys can't imagine that at least thousands of people would like you as their friend, but they have no way connecting to you.
Find a hobby or something you like and meet like minded people
People are overrated
I have two friends I call close.feel lucky to have even those
The more friends the have the lonelier they are, those are all attempts to numb the feeling of unhappiness in life, people who have many friends don’t know how to be alone with themselves😜🤫
I sometimes have the issue, I don't like going out but I like being asked to go out. Ever since I had a break up, what I thought was gaining freedom, I actually just gained loneliness.
Im glad I have friends to vent to.
This is very common. Bring invited boosts status, actually going loses status... That's why being late is "fashionable"
How did you maintain your friendship ?
I used to ask my friends out, but once I stop asking them out, they no ask me out. I feel they do not want to be friends.
@@chuachua-hj9zd Are you socially inept in certain regards? I ask that with genuine curiosity and not as an insult.
I find that friendships come with compromise if you are not one for going out. You cant have your cake and eat it.
You cant be an isolationist but still want to be asked to head out. You gotta be a contributing member of the friendships you are part of.
I contribute random humor, insight and im a home for people who feel like they need to say something or get it out of their system.
If you want friends, you have to BE a friend.
Do you recognise any of your own issues as a possibly beginning point?
... All of the wisest people of all times have said two things... Simplify, and look to Nature
I am a high functioning introvert. I can be very social when needed, but it drains me completely. Ultimately my husband is my best friend, we’ve been married 20 yrs. Otherwise, I do keep up with a handful of people that I met in my 20s through college or work. We don’t actually see each other very often, but we message each other regularly. I could call any of them at 2am for an emergency. That is how you can classify your close friends vs acquaintance. Basically instead of posting to everybody in social media, I message funny or interesting things directly to the person if it reminds me of them. It’s an easy way to keep in touch even if you are busy. The older you get…the harder it is to make new friends because everybody is busy, so it is important to keep in touch with friends from your youth.
As I have grown....my 25 year relationships with my high school crew fell away. They were all messes that set me back. It was fun when I was a kid, but it sets you back after that.
Most of the time when I start a conversation with anyone I immediately regret it. My aunt was the only person I genuinely enjoyed talking to..she passed away a few weeks ago. I don't think I will ever meet someone quite like her.
Why do you regret conversing with other people?
@@perrywidhalm114 because it always turns into a one way conversation in which I'm talking about myself while the other person has nothing to add to the conversation. With my aunt, there was an equally shared amount of talking and listening with no awkward silences.
@@chelseascott5872 I'm not sure you wrote that as u intended because you said "You're talking about yourself" well that would be one sided. Obviously you've known your Aunt for long time n became comfortable with her over time. You being g younger n likely a child during most of it, she likely catered to you in a way. I am sorry for your loss. Whether your Aunt was still here or not,it would likely serve you well to put yourself out there and get to know others n eventually you will make friends.
Sorry for your loss.
Sorry for your loss. Sounds like you need to learn some conversation skills or attend gatherings where you find people with similar interests. People really are quite fascinating once you show some interest.
If you are a man, remember that men often bond by having projects togheter. Find new hobbies or bring others into the hobbies/ projects you already have. Then you can build from there
yes he said, the first question is "what do you do?" so it's action focused.
"I am not who I think I am, I am not who you think I am, I am who I think you think I am." ~ Charles Horton Cooley
I'm an unadopted orphan. Making friends has always been incredibly hard for me. I call it the rogue lion effect.
Hello. Could you please tell me more about your rogue lion affect. I too have zero friends as I lack the ability to foster those friendships.
I'd love to learn more as this may help and help you at the same time
❤❤❤❤❤❤
@@hey_youtubeim_back2159 a rogue lion is a lion without a pride. Other prides view them as outsiders and a danger to cubs and to the stability of the pride. Established social groups "circle the wagons" to prevent the integration of new males into their group.
As I have gotten older, I find the need for friendship less and less. Oh, I am friendly, thoughtful, kind and even charitable, but I no longer feel the same need for companionship I had in my youth, and, frankly, people in my peer group and of my own age simply do not interest me.
Everything written by Robert Greene helped me
I loved this one to pieces. Dunbar is so kind and articulate at the same time. Chris's summaries and questions are quite timely and point on. Definitely a nice chemistry between the two of you.
This is one of my favorite podcast episodes on the Internet! The topics discussed are extremely fascinating. My favorite part is the talk about how we went from groups of 15 to tribes of 50 to communities of 400 with the birth of the judiciary, and that going from 400 to cities of millions is a straight path. Basically this explains how some hairless apes created civilization. Dunbar is a legend and excellent at the explaining things, and Chris did a great job of asking questions.
This is excellent. Thanks a lot Professor Dunbar and Chris!
In the past there were some suggestions about relationships where some people engage in "performance based love". I love you - as long as you take me on interesting vacations. I love you - as long as you make me look good in front of my friends. As soon as the performance stops, so does the love. I believe this transactional mindset is a much lower level of existence. I also think that it is the Modern World which has brought us more towards this level of existence.
There is indeed real love and real friendship. It exists, it has taken place in the past, and it could take place in the future. It can't take place if people allow themselves to be programmed into a lower form of existence. Just my take.
If you think that anything in life is unconditional then you’re a fool
No you’re correct, it’s has become transactional and superficial. So many people fake everything these days and try to play people for fools far too often. To some it’s easier to avoid all together and just leave them to do what they do
You’re just romanticizing the “good old past. What makes you think people were less transactional then as compare to now?
@@helgaotto7801 "you're just romanticizing" - since you can already read my mind, there's no reason for me to respond
@@truthseeker6377 great response 👍🏻
Oh nice! I really enjoyed the last time Dunbar was on and talked about psychology of love. I'll be sure to tune in for this one as well.
Always interesting listening to Robin Dunbar ❤ thanks Chris
Truly great episode Chris.
Dunbar himself! Tops mate🎉. Stoked for this
Thank you Robin Dunbar
I have benefited enormously by reading you work .
Cheers , mate
1:01:35 the men's friend group substitution thing is so funny and so real i never thought about it.
looking back, even in Southpark they did it long time ago after Kenny died from cancer,
the friends tried to substitute Butters in Kenny's spot and just treated him as if he was Kenny (or Notkenny)
KENNY DIED? OMG. I used to watch Southpark religiously and then life happened. NOOOOOO... KENNYYYY...
@@JaZmine147 oh my god! they killed Kenny! you Bstrd!
Loved this episode!
That was a great listen! Thank you.
With the male over perception bias of attraction, I think that it's just the fact that the woman is talking to them that causes the bias.
I see this all the time where guys will never think I'm into them when I don't talk to them due to nerves, but just having a couple friendly conversations with certain guys will make them believe I'm interested and so they start pursuing me.
When a woman talks and interacts with a guy, it's allowing them to pursue the woman. Isn't it totally logical that the men you are being nice to and are talking to think they have a chance with you? Whilst the guys you don't talk to because you're shy don't register you as a potential partner because they think you dislike them by not interacting.
Which means that just because a man is attracted to you it doesn't mean that he will pursue you if you don't allow them to by being friendly and getting their hopes up.
Women tend to have many tiers of friends, whereas it is men are now increasingly having no friends. There is a big disparity in society now.
If a guy has no friends or only a couple of friends then the interaction is a sign of attraction. (Married for 18years, and I have no friends)
There is a big difference here in perception from both sides. Since women have developed social skills early on, and are more perceptive on intent. Guys who lack the social interaction skills have a very big difference of view, that interaction is deemed as interest.
The interaction the guys will see is developing an emotional bond, where a woman will see there is no emotional connection in this relationship. If a guy has never learned to build bonds or has very limited experience in bonding, the difference in experience is very different.
I understand you think it is weird, but there is massive difference in social skills gap.
Well done lads
Fantastic and obvious when you hear it.
I usually only have friends as long as they want something I have.
Everyone should see this when they are 12 and again at 16
Many relationship between men are based on mutual exploitation. They are functional.
On the other hand many relationship between women are based on systems of mutual blackmail.
Pick your poison.
I had a real good friend a few years bk, he’d see me he even took me to a rugby game. Great guy, at the time I just stopped talking to him….. idk why I did that.
One of my biggest Fck ups was leaving that friendship…. He was a great friend.
@@moonknight4053 damn bro..... I'm not an easily stirred person but something about hearing a man missing an old friend just cheers me up in a tender kind of way. Maybe it's because I value brotherhood above all. Good on you🤘
@@brianmeen2158 I once had a very trusted friend who I missed for a long time. Some day I may see him again, but my aim has improved and I won't miss the traitor next time.
Other way around for me. For me it’s not material though, but what activities they do or the things they know. I’m not so good at holding a conversation unless the other person is the interesting one.
Excellent episode!
I've been saying this for a few years ...I have almost no close friends but really my definition of "friends" is essentially where my goals align with someone else or they want something I have. So, it's not a bad thing ! 🎉🎉
SO friends are just people you can use?
@antonyjh1234 I would say more to do with mutual benefits in terms of shared goals and social elevation. But if you are low in the group hierarchy then yes you have to be useful in some way and you will be used
@@bruswain9158 You have friends that want to use others too? For social elevation within a hierarchy, that only works if you have others kept low, in effect the "low in the group" are the most important, without them, your ranking wouldn't exist..
@antonyjh1234 Yes, I agree that the low members of the group are needed to maintain the hierarchy... but let's be honest, it's no fun being at the bottom
@@bruswain9158 Define top..
You would have to keep people down for your imaginary ranking to exist, that doesn't make anybody a good person. Who you are is what you are, if you are a person that can't build others up then that's who you are, if you are trying to keep others down, that's who and what you are as opposed to the opposite, somebody who doesn't deserve respect imo, therefore your ranking would be much lower and apparently subjective. The person at the bottom might realise this and builds you up, making them the better person, yes? Is it possible at the bottom there is less of a ranking loss, less pressure and therefore more freedom?
This is THE Robin Dunbar! Of Dunbar number fame! I like this guy and have seen him on several podcasts. I bet Chris has some great questions for this man. This is right up Chris's alley!
P.S. isn't this guy the only living person with a number named after him? Or one of three?
I would be very much interested in a podcast with someone like Robin Dunbar and another researcher who works with computational simulations in this field. I think the conversation would be very interesting.
A faithful friend is a sturdy shelter. He who finds one finds a treasure.
44:43 Many of those types of laws are also broken either by accident or because people get more impulsively animalistic sometimes, it's nearly impossible to really have fully draconian systems.
Great conversation, Chris 😊
Robin Dunbar is so very interesting.I really appreciate listening to your thoughtful podcasts with Robin.
Genuinely shared is genuinely enjoyed❤
My whole adult life I could sense this dark aspect of humanity. Or you could say this is just life, dark. And we’re not exempt.
What aspect, can you be more precise?
Yeah, as an adult it feels like the “dark” side is always at the surface. You have to be vigilant whether you are engaging with the public whether that be driving, perusing grocery store isles etc. You never know when another human will boil over and find an outlet to absorb that emotional tension. You always have to actively avoid being that outlet or target for human aggression/emotion.
If the number of people in a community needs to be limited, this might explain why online relationships via social media are so terrible. We're trying to engage in an online community with hundreds, thousands and in some cases millions of people.
Because you became smart enough to cut off the fake and toxic people
Best channel ever!
Jimmy going to Thailand is such an hilarious example
He neglected to mention that Jimmy can come back from Thailand after 10 years and, after a few minutes chat about Thailand and what has schanged at home, it'll probably be just as if he'd never left (except for managing the interaction with the "new" Jimmy)
Chris, thank you for another enlightening podcast.
society has formated its population to consume, including friends, relationships, husband, wives, children, etc.... its a natural evolution from the things we consumed.. now its the connection we have as a human being that we are consuming
I didn't realize until a few minutes in that this was Dunbar of Dunbar's Number fame. Very cool.
Great interview, high quality! Thank you so much 🙏
Hear, hear.
Insightful
Listening to this makes me wonder how malleable the Dunbar number is, and how much it varies between human cultures/individuals.
Who you are is usually what you are. If you are an angry person, that's who and what you are, same can be applied to happy, honest, lazy/hardworking etc
Social groups are because of what works and we are like all other animals, we copy each other and groups can give confirmation bias of what's right a lot more than being alone.
There’s no such thing as an “angry person” or “happy person”. We are not our emotions. Anger is a normal human experience; so is depression and anxiety; some people do experience higher levels of anger, anxiety and depression than others do though. Also, people express their anger in different ways; sometimes to the point where it becomes problematic and dangerous. The reason why some people struggle with expressing their anger in safe ways is because of trauma and with this can come lack of emotional support, lack of boundaries (people not respecting their boundaries or being too complacent in teaching them) and maladaptive coping skills. If someone was never taught love and compassion, it may be hard for them to be loving towards themselves and others. There is also science that supports why people react without thinking things through first (amygdala is activated, which turns on the fight, flight and freeze response and the part of the brain that deals with decision making is dimmed down to protect the body was harm; our brains often can not recognize the difference being in a situation where you are unsafe and feeling unsafe. Therefore, you’ll notice when you try to hit someone, they will more than likely hit back without delay; their body reacts before it has time to process what is going on and how they should react). There’s also science that shows how certain hormones are overproduced or underproduced in the brain and distributed to the body that cause people to become depressed or anxious. With all that being said, no one is born angry or chooses to be angry neither can they choose to be happy. What we do can choose is developing self-awareness around our triggers, so that we can be gentle with ourselves and practice positive coping skills to work through anger, anxiety and depression.
@@kristinbutler422 What you are saying is being aware of your triggers means you can choose how you are?
Nothing like opening youtube to see a new CW video posted seconds before 🙌🔥
I remember friends.
To be honest...
It's not all that much of rocket science, really. Men specifically, when it comes to friendships, expect a challenge having to form relationships when you are confronted with the fact that most people have responsibilities to tend to. Be it family matters or business. Having to relive the high school days with people who probably grown out of the phase would suck tremendously. People move on with life.
What can you really do about it???
@@luxurybuzz3681 majority of times, one outweighs the other.
Why would it be like the highschool phase? Interesting jump, will recommend perusing Ray Oldenburg's "The Great Good Place" and reading in full (80 pages) Games People Play by Eric Berne.
@@TheMawOfTheDunesthey sound excellent to read. However, what I was referring to was that the crave for connections or companionship are becoming near impossible in today's current world when you are coming up in age. People will leave you behind when opportunity knocks. Even if you have built strong connections with them.
@@brianmeen2158 believe me. It's pretty easy to see in today's world. From social media clout and everything in between. The signs are there.
You move on with life but still have hobbies and interests. Just because you don't hang out on your school yard every day it doesn't mean that you can't develop a new group of friends in sports or other hobbies. What kind of logic is that? Everyone has 24h a day and 365 days a year. Under your assumption no one would have amazing friendships because we are all busy. Which would mean that only rich people have time to spend with friends. But that's not the case. Amazing friendships come out of combat for example, either martial arts or the military. It's doing something together that bonds people.
Interesantno.
Robin Dunbar is the greatest psychologist to have ever existed. Dunbar's number disproved collectivism as a viable social structure 30+years ago. Just brilliant.
Interesting observation. Can you explain how it disproved collectivism as a viable social structure?
@Matteo Ricci There are two ways humans look at other humans: through an emotional bond and through an abstractive lens. We are limited to 150 emotional connections with other human beings, so bad things happen when humans hold absolute power over humans they do not have an emotional bond with. If your neighbour dies of cancer, you are devasted, if 200,000 people dies in a tsunami across the world, you do not bat an eye. That difference is why collectivism will never work.
@@bradeninsley8561 150 people or less is still a great goal for group behavior though. Most people could learn by trying to cooperate in a group of that size. We live now mainly in cities based on hierarchical collective structures that are destroying ecology. 50% of wildlife have been killed off in the past 40 years and the ecological crisis is accelerating - that is due to larger size human collectives. So yes collectivism will never work indeed but humans will keep ignoring this larger collective dynamic due to very effective mass mind control techniques.
you got dunbar , impressive.
Interesting stuff...environment can cause such rapid adaptations in behavior and dna...pretty wild no pun 🐱👤🐱👤🙏🙏👌👌
It's actually the opposite way around if they can't see the obvious in some cases or most. Maybe he's talking about his personal experience around his circle or animals and not what he's checked in different groups of humans etc. (Talking about the first part)
Poverty point, Louisiana USA is a counterexample to all this small group stuff.
I cannot get over how much he sounds like Ian Holme. It's identical.
Great.
Great
This was so good I was able to ignore the Audible pencil writing in the back ground. And I HATE that sound.
anti-asmr
Is that a book shelf behind you?
"Hump shaped fertility curves"
Great discussion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if animals automatically keep their populations in check, by their bodies automatically reducing fertility. What's to say that much of our infertility problems and depopulation are just a natural response of human excessive urbanization?
Most infertility is due to leaving it until much later than was historically even possible and to choice. I think the decline in sperm viability is "interesting" but it's still just noise in the demographics. In any case Dunbar was quite clear that the main factor limiting animal and early human group sizes was homicide rather than fertility.
Also, to easily counter the "isn't nature perfectly balanced fallacy" - How would you account for plagues of locusts for example?
Nature populations work on an S-curve - meaning there is exponential growth and then a crash. Human original cultures practice infanticide if the female gets pregnant while she is still nursing her baby - up to two years old! So we used to have population control that was pretty effective. Cities and farming caused population booms and yes very soon there will be "biological annihilation" on Earth.
This, for me, follows the rubric of the BBC. Educate, inform and entertain. 😊
Yes, it's a shame the beeb haven't been holding down those principles for multiple decades now!
Wow I listened to the entire podcast and didn't realize until the very end when Chris repeated his name that this was the Dunbar responsible for "Dunbar's Number."
I've been a guy my whole life and I talk with my best friend all the time but rarely see him.
You are not going the pull the rug out under me when I am halfway finished this time right?
Females use their orbiters as hired guns with the implied disingenuous hint at possibility of sex 🤣
That’s why the manosphere is doing it’s best to wake up all the “orbiters” and let them know that they need to stop giving out free attention. Women just use guys for attention while hanging the possibility of sex over their head. Seems like a lot of men are starting to wake up to this reality and a lot of women are ending up alone and attentionless. Whoops
I avoid people when ever possible
Chris ~. There is no "balance"... no still-points in an ever-changing reality. Instead, there exists a harmony (relationships within the whole) of perpetually-morphing elements.
I think that these differences in male and female relationships are to a certain extent women’s better understanding of how social relationships are. As a girl growing up with autism, I had a very hard time reading social cues. I found that my friendships worked a lot more similar to the way you say male relationships work. As I’ve grown older, and my friendships are more female in nature. My best friend is my mom. Cheesy as it sounds, we have an intense relationship like you deacribed and we just get each other. I think my lack of friends made me cling to her, and we also just get along personality wise very well. As soon as I got old enough to think, like an adult, our relationship grew very strong. But otherwise I kind of think about relationships in a make sense. This is probably a mix of my autism and growing up with 3 brothers very close in age, all within 3 years of me.
I've got a bit more of a male approach to friendship. I will have a disagreement, clear it up and then move on, only to discover the friend is resentful and simmering, and has now gone and told other people what a b*tch I am. All my bullying experiences have began with me having a disagreement with a friend, resolving it (or so I thought), only for that friend to secretly gather her collective and then attack my character. It took me until adulthood to understand female social cues and now I still don't get them and I get severe anxiety in large groups of women. I'm now only friends with other women who get me, who get my loner-traits without taking it personally, get my unfiltered way of talking and value me for who I am and what I bring to the friendship. I'm nearly 40 and it's taken this long to navigate female socialisation.
I'm considered somewhat attractive and when women don't gel with me, they end up really hating me, calling me stuck up and saying I think I'm perfect. I really don't. I'm very quiet and mind my own business, but man, I can inspire utter hatred in women. It's very odd and why I have anxiety in large groups of women. Men don't tend to see me as weird. Quiet at times, yes, but not the freak other women always try to make me out to be. It's exhausting.
@xiaomoogle l totally hear you! Most women are shallow, bitchy & competitive. I'm attractive, intelligent and kind, so you can imagine how much l'm despised! I'm certainly not interested in their flirty partner's either.
I've been single forever and imagine when l find a partner l'll likely be accepted back into groups, if they don't want me now, they're not getting me just cos lm partnered.
l'd rather be content in my own company, with my cat or in nature.
Would that explain those super-geniuses that have the social grace of a two-year old?
Robin ~ Today's hunter, gatherer, scavenger groups exist in resource poor habitats unlike how their ancestor's evolved. The Sans Bushmen make a good example to this fact. The Sans Bushmen DID NOT live in the Central Kalahari Desert until the past two hundred years or so when they were forced there by outside population pressure.
It's a bit strange to see men speculate about women's social life, stress and fertility. The theories are very interesting but I wonder about if stretches are being made and conclusions are pur forth in too certain terms because I would think that interpretation of social primate data would be very difficult because of the complexity of the interactions. That said, I love to hear these very interesting ideas and it's always enjoyable to see men speculating about the mysteries of women's behavior. It's endearing❤
you can check out Camilla Power, the anthropologist, for the focus on females.
Men have to speculate about a women’s entity because women don’t even care about speculating about their entity
Though in my experience most women’s behaviour is certainly not endearing!
He kind of meandered around the point a little bit. Otherwise very interesting interview.
"What do we use our large brains for? We use it to manage relatively large, complicated societies. It allows us to hold these things together."
I believe this is another way of saying man's brain allows him the special privelage of ruling over his environment. Over other animals. This is the generally accepted secular theory of mankind's purpose based on scientific evidence.
In Genesis 1:26 God describes man's unique relationship to His divine creation: to rule over it/have dominion of it. Genesis Chaper 1:26 says: "Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." This is the Bible’s description mankind's purpose as divinely designed by God.
Both science and the Bible agree that mankind was created by God for the purpose of having dominion over it.
24:00 Maybe women sexual flexibility to have sex with other women might be an adaptation to avoid the stresses that might affect their fertility.
1:00 Men often complain that men are replaceable but maybe they are projecting or the enforcers.
if you look at Bonobos - the females practice "G to G rubbing" which is frontal orgasmic rubbing - they do this pretty much all the time to maintain social relations. Humans are pretty similar to bonobos.
@@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885 Very true
0:02 What ??? There are thousands of dating videos who claim the opposite, that women don't care about who a guy is and will never love him for that but its only about what he does.
he probably meant what females think of other females and males think of other males.
19:55: Badly behaved males. My question for Mr. Dunbar. If all male behavior depends on women and the incentive to males of women, how can there be 'poor' or 'bad' make behavior?
He just uses those words as people normally understand them not as a statement of moral philosophy.
@@SmileyEmoji42 In one sentence, Nick Nick-splained to me and suggested that all other listeners are unintelligent.
@@murraymarshawn2175 And so you "Murrysplain" my comment to other comment readers? 🤣
❤
the group sizes ability to relate and not kill themselves is, lubricated by money.
if im understanding
instead of direct beneficial relationships (that we value)
we have value agreements and institutions
to police beneficial relationships of value.
trade
commerce.
money.
crown sourcing externalizing value judgments.
now we don rust institutions we was dispersed responsibility
crypto currency
air BnB
uber
Friendship is not just a simple relationship between two people, it's a product of our evolutionary history. It's a testament to the power of social connection and the role it plays in shaping our lives.
This all sounds _really_ specious to me. What's this guy's evidence for the claim people living in groups of larger than ~100 just start murdering each other? If that were true heavily urbanized cities would be nothing but death and violence all day and all night - yet, though they do generally have a significantly higher crime rate than smaller towns, actual per capita homicide is remarkably low (statistically speaking).
We're not that far removed from the environment of evolutionary adaptation. Even as adaptable as humans are, 8,000 years is barely a twitch of an eyelid in evolutionary terms. In all practical measures there is no difference, be it physiological or psychological, between humans today and humans 10,000 years ago. So how did we all of a sudden and all at once just magically overcome this murderous rage we're supposed to have when settling in larger groups?
I could, of course, be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last. Even so, these ideas and explanations just don't pass the sniff test for me.
he already explained that's why there's police in cities, etc. The 50 to 75 limit for a peaceful human tribe is based on the anthropological literature. Professor F. Craig Ferguson has a brand-new book out on the origins of human warfare. So Dunbar is just saying humans start murdering each other when the social group increases to 100 people. It's not the same as warfare. The hierarchical groups have more warfare against exterior groups. thanks
I just noticed that ironically your logo is an M and a W...and most of your conversations center around the behaviors of Men and Women....
Friends are overrated, one or 2 preferably childhood friends into adulthood are is all we need. 😜
.. Werner Erhard, the founder of EST, said that everything is a con.
especially EST....
I'm past the half point mark and no mention of friendship yet.
Chris ~ Humans evolved over 2.5 million years ago to live in small, kin-related bands up to ~ 25 members maximum. Band-level societies lived in habitats rich in natural resources; they were egalitarian (meaning everyone had a sacred place in the circle); utilized a sharing / trading economy and were governed by trusted elders. The band recognized only age and gender as divisions within their society. As I've written many times in your comments, today's highly-urbanized society functions exactly the opposite of how we evolved to survive and thrive. Nearly ALL civilized dysfunction, derangement and debauchment flows from this fact. Until about 3,000 years ago, the vast majority of people lived as hunters, gatherers and scavengers.
Too many females clustered together reduces fertility? Has anyone told inner city black women?
Chronic Stress and Ovulatory Dysfunction: Implications in ...
National Institutes of Health (.gov)
by P Vigil · 2022 · Cited by 3 - In women, phenotypic markers of chronic stress include menstrual irregularities, amenorrhea, and/or infertility due...
they get pregnant but black females have a much higher level of infant mortality.
In 2021 The Lancet, working with the Tommy's National Centre for Miscarriage Research, published a paper showing that Black women had a 43% increased risk of miscarriage compared to white women.
Because your peers are dying to cancel you.
He is practicing the age old theory that humans are the same as animals
humans are fancy primates.
... Aristotle Onassis said that the reason he became a shipping billionaire was so that he would get enough sex. This says something about women.
That says a lot about Onassis too... Such mundane reason... I don't buy that, he was probably joking. But, ultimately money is power, and power itself is irrational those who have power crave and work to get more power, and that is bringing even more power. The goal of power is more power, very irrational, but that is how world works.
He was fucking ugly, he was being honest that he needed the money if he wanted to marry high status women like Jackie Kennedy and have affairs with Callas.
They like men with resources, just like men like fertile pretty women.
@@dumfriesspearhead7398 And women don't like fertile pretty men, they like ugly short men who have "resources"? That is very simplified and ultimately incorrect.
Who
I had to turn this up to 1.2 speed.
I find his conception of male vs female friendships to be rather dated. A lot of guys I know talk a lot about their lives and issues more than you would expect. That image he gave of the silent old Greek men sitting with each other...is antiquated AF to be honest
Robin didn't do a very good job of explaining the origin of cities. Like he said, grain growing predates cities, but the storage of grain creates a division of labor and a hierarchy to manage it. The organization and accumulation of material wealth invites raiders which causes fortifications. The reason this was accelerated in the Levant was because of the climate change he alluded to. When Europeans arrived in the Americas they found this process playing out at all its stages from the highly urban Aztecs to the village based, proto-commercial Iroquois, to the hunter gatherer Plains Indians.
Not very compelling. Sounds like pseudoscience. Some of the stated facts were just plain wrong.
Curious to know which ones seemed wrong. Might be fun to come up with alternative hypotheses.
And yet you state that as a fact with no supporting evidence and presumably expect comment readers to accept your word over his.
I would genuinely like to know why you think that.
The problem in relation to the number of females present in a group and why large numbers of females in a group over five is bad is due to female competition for mates, the more females the more they have to focus on competing to keep their mate because in nature regardless of species, females are weaker then males and use males to protect them. This is not just a problem humans face, this is how nature works. This is why most human female groups are no more then five women and if it goes over that number they will compete for the men around them with each other and will backstab each other very quickly because they are all trying to secure a good mate for reproduction.
This guy is very amused by himself, isn't he?
No I'm a woman that asks my friends what have you been upto . Practically not who I am. I don't care.
I like what people do.
Clearly, there is a misunderstanding here about how life evolves (meaning changes over time). Evolution DOES NOT indicate "progress" towards some higher state of being. No! Increasing complexity is not the same thing as "biological progress". Evolution is based on Natural Selection whereas those who survive are allowed to thrive. Species that leave the most viable offspring are those that thrive. This can be seen clearly with the evolution of flight. What good is half a wing for flying? Flying animals did not start out that way, e.g. penguins. Flying was an adaptation paired to evolved ab-aptation (genetic inheritance).
Chris Williamson just loves the sound of his own voice.
It is beautiful indeed. ❤
@@JaZmine147 it’s so cringe when he tries to seem as intellectual as his guests.
@@LA-xc4tc You have some superiority issues to work through, my dude. I just see a man that interacts with intelligent, hard working people in their respective fields. I don't know how long you've been subscribed to Chris but I've been for a while and I saw him delevop a lot of communication skills. Being intellectually curious makes your brain like a sponge. Absorbing information and always digging deeper, cross-referencing various opinions he's heard from other professionals and asking unique questions. If you can't respect the hustle and what to expand your horizons, why are you on this channel? Bless you.
@@JaZmine147 I enjoy listening to what his guests have to say but he annoys me.
@@LA-xc4tc Most of his guests have various interviews with other interviewers on other channels. Maybe look into someone who doesn't annoy you to listen to the people you like.
It's nerve wrecking listening to this guys err.. and ahhs... and his ridiculous chuckle
try 2xing. I 2x all youtube vids. you won't notice little side sounds so easily.
I'm not so sure this bloke knows an awful lot.