End AFCI Nuisance Tripping: Discover Hidden Causes & Stop the Drama Now!
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- čas přidán 23. 03. 2023
- AFCI Nuisance Tripping; Why it Exists, Hidden Causes, and Solutions
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Are you tired of the constant frustration that comes with AFCI nuisance tripping? It’s time to put an end to this irritating problem! In this video, we’ll explain how AFCI works, explore the hidden causes and show you how to regain control of your home’s electrical system.
We’ll reveal not only the common causes but also some surprising reasons behind these trips. Our easy-to-follow steps will help you troubleshoot and fix these issues once and for all, giving you back your peace of mind.
Don’t let AFCI nuisance tripping hold you hostage any longer!
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Top Homeowner produces videos for informational, educational, & entertainment purposes only. Information here is not to be viewed as advice but as an opinion. Viewers should be aware that if they choose to work on their homes, they do so at their own risk. Top Homeowner is not responsible for any damages that may occur to the property of a viewer. Some of the projects, materials, and techniques may not be suitable for all ages or skill levels. It is up to the viewer to decide whether to consult with a professional before working on their home. We make no claims to the safety of the projects, techniques, or resources featured in this video, and we will not be held responsible for the actions viewers may choose to take with the information provided. It is recommended that viewers use common sense and take all necessary safety measures. Codes, regulations, standards, and rules are constantly changing around the world, so it is the viewer's responsibility to ascertain their local requirements before starting any type of work. - Jak na to + styl
When AFCIs were first introduced nuisance tripping was such an issue electricians and homeowners alike would install the AFCI breakers temporarily, to pass CO inspection, then remove them and use standard breakers once the inspector leaves. Vacuum cleaners were among the biggest culprit. Sometimes certain dimmer switches caused nuisance tripping when dimmed to certain levels with certain brands of AFCI breakers, apparently the chopped up sine wave from a dimmer caused issues with the earliest AFCIs
That's interesting, I appreciate the background! Thankfully, they have improved over the years, but a lot of people still hate them which is understandable.
Refrigerators also tend to make AFCI breakers trip when they start. Happen a lot in condo building where the tenant has a second fridge they connect in a different outlet than the dedicated fridge outlet in the kitchen. Such as a small beer fridge in the living room. One tenant I went to for service had a chest freezer full of meat he got from hunting in the summer. The AFCI breaker tripped for no reason and he only figured that out days later when it started to smell funny... It's sad that I had to tell him I knew what the issue was, but couldn't legally fix it...
@@HCkev You *could* have legally fixed it. You just didn't know how.
These sorts of problems can almost always be fixed by adding a sufficient power line filter in-line with the problem device. That is the correct way to fix these problems, not removing the AFCI protection.
I think it's funny how hardly anyone thumbs up your comment, even the content mule didn't like what you had to say...I imagine most people are just sheep, doing as they're told, not thinking for themselves... All these new codes just happen to involve expensive equipment that I'm sure people in high places have lots of money invested, garbage
@@foogod4237ol8
Simply put, these things are not ready for prime time. FACT: The people who produce and market these items are the ones who sit on the boards that vote on the recommendations for the National Electric Code. These beakers cause more issues than they solve.
You'd think after being added to the NEC code nearly 25 years ago they should be ready for prime time at this point
@@TopHomeowner Hopefully they would be ready but the issues with series arcing are very tough to make fool proof.
Exactly right
The seimans ones are absolutely horrible. They are the bane of my existence as an electrician. I haven't had a single issue after moving to Schneider
I'm doing a basement remodel so brand new square d sub panel with new square d afci GFCI breaker. 15 ft home run to 6 new halo 8 watt led lights. trips breaker. Isolate to 1 light, still trips. Put in regular 15 amp breaker, works fine. Add back other lights, works fine. Add ten more lights, works fine. Put back afci GFCI breaker, trips. Guess I wait for inspection then replace breaker but these things cost a lot of money.
Great video, thank you.
Did not know about the FCC and devices. Thanks! This will help me troubleshoot AFCI issues at work.
Wow EXCELLENT video!! 👌
Thank you!
well, thanks for the info. new house, build in 2021, and these are a royal pain in the ass. At first, they never tripped. but in the last 3 months, all of them have tripped, and nothing has been added to 2 of the circuits, but they trip everyday now. Replaced by a bog standard breaker, these need some work.
Well spoken, organized and valuable information. Thank you for the education. - Respectfully
Much appreciated... Thanks for watching!
Baaa,baaaaa!!
Reason #1 AFCI breakers trip: you installed an AFCI breaker.
Seriously though, 99.99% of the time those trip, it's a false positive. I'm all for extra safety and all, but when it simply doesn't work correctly and cause more issues than it fixes, then we have a problem. Something that works so poorly shouldn't be mandated. For instance, nobody complain about GFCI, because they work perfectly.
I had this issue in my house. 1) The refrigerator would randomly trip it (of course, when we were away, ruining everything inside), 2) my home office (computers, displays), and 3) my media room.
It was a brand new home. The only thing the builder's electrician would tell me was to not use these devices. (???? Really?). I hired my own electrician who (after a reasonable amount of troubleshooting the wiring) recommended I swap out those three breakers for non AFCI ones. I wish there was a better solution, but I haven't had the problem since.
Is there a better solution? I'd love to know.
It’s funny because my 2018 house has none of these on my panel and my home inspector freaked out and said my house was going to burn down. After doing my research, I have decided he’s a dumbass
No, im a licensed electrician, and i f-ing hate them. I have never seen these breakers trip for a good reason. They eventually start tripping over time, and every time they do trip they become more and more sensitive each time, to the point where the breaker itself will not hold even if the initial reason for the trip is resolved.
Although i loathe these breakers, we can get in trouble by installing the "wrong" breaker. Whoever said you need to swap them is correct, it will fix the issue. However, the county you live in madates them. So i would tell you the same thing but wouldn't install it myself.
There is a better solution. All of the so-called "professional" electricians are just too lazy to learn what it is.
These sorts of problems can almost always be solved by adding a sufficient additional power line filter to the problem device (quite often, all you need is one of those "surge suppressor" power strips, though you can also buy more special-purpose filters if that isn't enough). Easy, usually not that expensive, and doesn't require undermining useful safety devices and violating electrical codes, but most electricians I've seen don't want to hear that and just stick their fingers in their ears and say "AFCI breakers are crap! Don't use 'em! La la la!"
@@foogod4237 New construction may mandate them but there are millions of older homes without any of them that work just fine. They are a solution looking for a problem.............
Can you combne single pole AFCI using handle ties for 2pole 240v line to line loads?
Another cause of false tripping is RF (radio frequency) devices. This would include ham radio transmitters (especially those running high power--up to 1,500 Watts in many cases--and some CB radios with (illegal) power amplifiers. A lot depends on quality and type of signals emitted. Shielding and decoupling of power cables has been beneficial in some cases--enclosing the power lines in grounded EMT, commonly called conduit, can help in some cases. Other factors may enter in with radio transmitting devices, like the type of antenna used and distance between antenna and distance from the house wiring. AFCI manufacturers don't seem to test much for susceptibility to radiated RF interference, as the process often tends to be time consuming and frustratingly unpredictable.
Do you think radio frequency fan controller can cause a AFCI/GFCI breaker to trip
@awesome551000 --- Perhaps, but it seems unlikely. The remote control emits a very low-power radio signal (many are Infra-Red [IR] controlled and cause no interference problems. It's possible that the speed controller or the on/off switching in the controller circuit is generating a fast switching spike that fools the AFCI. They are not very sophisticated and are made to sell as cheaply as possible. You might try using a different speed controller/switch, or a different AFCI.
My amateur radio transceiver (Icom IC-7300) trips my breaker regularly. I'm hoping adding some filtering to the power cables will help. Not sure what that filtering looks like yet. This individual breaker also trips sometimes when I run the vacuum. Others don't seem to suffer this. Pretty annoying.
I had a nuisance tripping issue in my son’s new condo. They used Siemens combo AFI/GFCI breakers. The builder created a circuit for his kitchen island coming of a single receptacle at his wall counter. I tested the NMB cable the builder left “stranded in the island and it was connected to that hot receptacle. Up to then no tripping with hot receptacle and hot loose cable in the island. I added the island receptacle, tested it , etc. using a Leviton commercial receptacle. At that point, his new coffee maker would cause a trip every time it turned on where it hadn’t before. After checking wiring again and trying the coffee maker in another circuit (no trips), I was at a loss what was going on. I then decided to replace the upstream receptacle with a GFCI receptacle . No trips at receptacle or breaker. Tried a bunch of tools , appliances etc. including his coffee maker and no issues. My thought is , for whatever reason, the GFCI receptacle stabilized the circuit feedback to the breaker. I see Siemens is being sued by large electrical contractors for this issue.
Interesting situation. Since there are some electronics inside the GFCI, I could see that helping mask whatever the AFCI breaker didn't like. Good work! I didn't know about the Siemens lawsuit... I'll have to look into that.
@@TopHomeowner I have a Square D QO 200 A panel in my house (predated AFCI) and post-installed their Combo breakers on several circuits. Never any nuisance trips. There has to be something with these Siemens breakers. I also wondered if a surge protector receptacle might have worked as well.
That's very interesting.
The GFCI has ferrite cores inside that may, in this case, be filtering the circuit so that the AFCI circuit isn't so confused by "normal" but irregular waveforms from the appliance.
AFCI circuits are very touchy and it's hard program them to avoid nuisance tripping. Apparently this issue is still under development.
It might have been a loose connection on the load side of the original receptacle.
When you manually trip the new wall counter GFCI does it trip the original AFI/GFCI breaker as well?
Just moved into a new house and my new fridge from my other place had to go in the garage but it keeps tripping the gfci. Was reading a rc snubber can also fix that issue sometimes. Going to try that first before replacing the outlet with a non gfci plug.
The GFCI function is Very important for safety anywhere you may have water or moist ground.
The GFCI circuit is much, much simpler than an AFCI circuit and good units are not subject to nuisance tripping.
A faulty gfci breaker should be replaced with a new unit.
If a different gfci still trips, check the wiring of your fridge circuit.
If your fridge is sitting on a concrete floor, there may be a sneak path that causes the GFCI to trip.
If that's the case, putting the feet of the fridge on an well insulated base may take care of it.
You still have to take into account that someone may open the fridge while their bare feet are on the concrete.
If the cabinet of the fridge is Hot, this is unpleasant and it can be dangerous.
Refrigerators are notoriously "leaky" electically. Some will not reliably run on a GFCI. If more than .004 Amp goes to the Appliance and doesn't return on the nuetral,, the breaker assumes someone is being shocked and trips.
I just finished trimming my New Shop. There are ZERO appliances or lights on the ACFI circuits and ZERO LOAD. Several Branch Circuits trip immediately. I am in a Very Remote area where there is No Cell or cable to interfere with RF. Homeline pigtails are used. QUESTION: is there a certain OHM load that will trip the breakers? On affected circuits of outlets there are single receptacles(Dead Ends) that branch off in the circuit, can this be the cause?
I encountered a weird tripping issue with some oster clippers, when I would flip the switch on the trimmer it would trip the GFCI even though there was nothing wrong with it. I'd pulled it apart and looking around the guts as best as I was able to (I'm no EE).
Interesting. If they work without triggering the protection with another GFCI in a different room, than it's probably just a finicky GFCI outlet. While this stuff can be a pain... I'd rather the protection work too frequently than not work when it's supposed to!
@@TopHomeowner I tested it on every outlet in the house for the sake of science, it triggered faults in all the GFI's even though there was no fault.
I put meter on the other outlets to see if there was an abnormal signature of some kind, nope!
Forum digging and google searches, later all I could dig up was this model creates a feedback or resonance in the GFI circuit simulating a fault of some kind. 🤷
@@Enonymouse_
A meter isn't fast enough to show the very fast rise-time of the spark when the switch opens and closes. You'd need to use a digital oscilloscope or an analog storage scope, to see it. The short, fast, voltage spike fools the AFCI into thinking there's a serious arc fault, and it trips.
You might be able to power the clipper through a good over-voltage filter power strip. The cheap ones are almost useless for cleaning up noisy AC lines.
The cheapest way to avoid this issue is to have one or two circuits for which the code DOESN'T call for AFC protection, and use that line to power the clipper. Note that (at preset) the code doesn't require AFCI protection on circuits heavier than 20 amps--you might be able to use a 30-amp circuit to power the dog clipper--or use battery powered clippers!
So the issue i had didnt have anything to do with having too long of s run. My gas dryer kept tripping the breaker then i found out using an extension cord solved that issue. This weird fix worked on alot of other equipments and mainly equipment that has a motor like my table saw.
That's interesting... thanks for sharing!
This may be a long shot but my new apartment has these AFCIs in my office which has the most electronics plugged in computer, monitors plugged into a surge protector and also a small fish tank which has a very low draw pump trips into arc fault only over night when I turn everything off no computer is on only the fish tank which needs to run. I can work 8 hours a day and it never trips but the next morning everything is off.
My Scenario is, in my golf simulator room, I have separate light and receptacle circuits. I have 2-20 amp receptacle circuits both using combination GFCI/AFCI receptacles (along with 2 separate 15 amp lighting circuits) . I always have a projector, PC and small spot light plugged in. My nuisance tripping occurs when one of my light circuit (3-13 amp) LED can lights are dimmed. All works fine until I try to plug in a battery charger, or box fan or vacuum cleaner into a receptacle . When these 3 lights or on fully, I have no issues, but when they dimmed any amount, the circuit trips occasionally. Is it reasonable to assume it is a dimming interference, and not something that could cause a fire? Thanks
Try plugging one of those appliances in with a noise suppressing surge protector
I have a Square D 15 amp CAFCI plug on neutral that trips every time my power goes out and comes back on. If I go to my breaker panel and turn the main 200 amp breaker off and back on, the breaker will trip upon turning the power back on. I changed the breaker with a new one thinking it was the breaker, but it still trips. Any suggestions? Thank you in advance.
It is always a good idea when manually turning off the main breaker to turn off all the individual breakers before resetting the main breaker Then turn on the individual breakers after as this stops a massive power surges to your equipment on the individual circuits. Obviously this will not help on an unscheduled power loss......
The way to solve nuisance tripping is to make sure that you have flashlights by every seat and table. That way when you lose power, you don’t have the nuisance of tripping 😜
😆
I wonder whether the roof de-icing cables require AFCI breaker. I have two roof de-icing cables: one is 100 feet and the other is 50 feet, both plugged in a same Receptacle which has a dedicated AFCI breaker controlled. Then the strange thing happens, in a not so code weather, it works. In a really freezing cold whether (like close to 32 F or colder). It trips after several minutes when turned on. Then what I tried is if I just plug in one cable (either one), it works well. And more strange thing is, if it works for some time with one roof cable plugged in (let's say one hour), then I plug in the other cable, and it works, too. I am really annoyed by this. I wonder whether should I replace the breaker to a GFCI one.
BTW, it is a 20amp AFCI breaker and the roof cable is 8w per ft, then 150 together should be 1200 watt. Also what I mean 'it works' above is the de icing cable is on and hot for many hours, like one or two days and it never trips. That's I really wonder why the weather would have related to the trips
I keep having a weird issue. My computer/TV/Audio System is on a AFCI breaker. It doesn't trip for days at a time. Then when a mixer is turned on in the kitchen, on a different (non-AFCI) breaker, it occasionally trips. Do these AFCI breakers detect noise coming from other breakers?
Similar issue here. The running the microwave oven the kitchen causes the home office AFCI to trip. Two totally separate circuits with some distance between them.
Complex waveforms due to an appliance may cause a disturbance in a supposedly unrelated circuit elsewhere in the house.
If the AFCI is on the ragged edge, a little bit of extra noise may cause it to trip.
You probably have mixed up neutrals somewhere in your house.
I ended up changing out the surge protectors for ones that have better filtering and stopped having the problem.
I have a hair trimer I have used many times but it just started to trip a different breaker (master bedroom that is a afci) but only when the trimmer is plugged into any outlet on my bathroom breaker line, yet that bathroom breaker doesn't itself trip, it's on a gfci not afci. The master bedroom doesn't trip the breaker if the trimmer is plugged in and turned on with any other outlets in the house including the master bedroom that is tripped...? Glad I found this thread, although I still don't know what is going on.
In my garage we have a chest freezer. If we leave it plugged in the receptacle next to the freezer it randomly trips the AFCI. We have a single outlet in the garage that isn't AFCI and had to plug the freezer into it with an extension cord.
Definitely one of the worst possible places for an AFCI to not work properly!
This is especially troublesome because you might not notice the breaker has tripped for several days.
For critical appliances, like freezers and refrigerators it's helpful to mount a small night light on the same circuit so you can tell at a glance if the circuit is still alive. Also, you can use a battery operated alarm that sounds when the power goes off.
Arc fault is not required in garages though.
Try plugging one of those appliances in with a noise suppressing surge protector
Use audible alarm AFCI receptacles too!
PlayStation 5 consoles playing PS5 games seem to trip arc breakers. I can’t find anything on this from a reliable electrician, but it is on gamers discussion sites. The console can run for hours playing a movie without issue but the moment a game has intense graphics it trips the breaker. I think it is noise signal tripping it. Please let me know if anyone knows a fix other than extension cord to non arc breaker or changing out the breaker for non arc.The high quality surge protector does not help.
Root cause = regulatory capture by manufacturers. Putting AF detectors on circuits with electric motors - what could go wrong with this? There has to be a balance between safety and usefulness. I would like to see data from an independent source that AF detectors actually work properly on circuits with motors. After about the 10th time, anyone will say enough. And do you think it will get better as everything ages? Remember, this same regulatory agency thought it a good idea to put aluminum wire in residential houses. Root Cause = ?
Universal motors should have proper EMI suppression. If a manufacturer cheaps out, the arcing from the brushes can leak out.
What annoys you the most? Let us know!
The fact that my house appears to have very few of the items listed in the NEC and it was built after the 2012 edition of the NEC. :P I have been asked to inspect other people's electrical setups in my county, their electricals were not in compliance either but were signed off by home inspector and county inspectors.
The government, for mandating these aggravating pieces of crap.
These really are hot garbage. The Code is forcing a protective device that isn't selective in this package size, at least with today's versions of these breakers.
Yup AFCI breakers cause mre problems than they solve. If this is code now it just wasted time and money.
Thank you for pointing out that a lot of what people think are "nuisance trips" are actually tripping because there are _real legitimate hazards_ involved that need to be investigated and fixed. Lots of people seem to think that just because "it's always worked ok" that means a device is perfect, when it might actually have an issue that could eventually lead to a fire or a shock hazard, even if it hasn't yet.
In most cases, if a device is actually functioning as designed, but it is causing nuisance trips, it's because it was not designed to have an adequate level of power line filtering built-in. This is true of a lot of older devices (because they didn't know any better) and some cheap devices (because they're trying to cut corners). In most cases, _if you're sure the problem device is actually not faulty,_ these can be easily fixed by just adding an extra power line filter in line with the problem device. Sometimes all you need is one of those "surge suppressor" power strips (if that doesn't work, you can actually buy bigger "EMI filter" devices designed for this sort of thing, which are often not even that expensive).
This did not help me.. only makes me more frustrated. My home is was built two years ago and my ps5 trips the breaker all the time in my room. My kids trip theirs while playing video games as well. I effing hate these breakers with a passion!
Afci breakers suk
pure garbage nonsense… all talk.. you know nothing..
Argh we had a new house built. All the exterior gfci outlets trip the affordable breaker in the basment. I cant use my table or miter saws. Argh so frustrating. How are people supposed to work outside using outlets if they can't handle power tools? 🤦🏼♀️
Afci not "affordable"