Teaching methodology already existed, it was called NeWaza of Kodokan Judo. Then there is Kosen Judo which was the first branch of Judo to deal almost exclusively on ground grappling.
No, they’re not lol historically and culturally BJJ has always been this prideful vibe since the days of helio, even stating that BJJ might be superior and in actuality Judo has both standing and ground elements to which in my honest opinion a much more superior level of ground grappling which in reality full well rounded judokas learn both, and yes Kosen judo (ground is a lot more difficult to learn but is more rewarding in terms of skill set) and no i dont ever and should actually not be mentioned in the same “family” as BJJ, in actuality, fights can go either way…not on the ground LMAO
THE METHODOLOGIES DON'T EVEN HAVE SIMILARIES...AND THE CURRICULUM are also very different...at least 70% different... Now, don't confuse the current BJJ with the Gracie's old one... The first class at Carlson in the 80's was 3 slaps in the face with full force hahaha Then they would ask, "Did you like being slapped?", the student would answer no, then they would say... "so come here and I'll teach you how to defend"... Definitely the methodologies are not similar hahaha
@@PauloSilvaX of course they do! You are ignorant in your thinking in my opinion.Where did this discipline come from? Not from Brazil! That is for sure.
@@theclanmorrison I show you a video of two fighters fighting Jiujitsu Gracie in the year 1955 and you show me one from the same year or similar older, then you prove that I am ignorant and not you... question what the Gracies created WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING WHAT IT WAS...do you think this is today's BJJ... Today's BJJ is from the 90s, created by Gracie Barra Grapler competitions, Helio and George created what today you call MMA...don't worry, JJ's score is not meant to simulate a game, but to simulate an MMA fight...
@@theclanmorrison No one said it would exist without Kano, BJJ is Jigoro Kano's bloodline... But Kano didn't change martial arts history like Gracie did... PICK ANY MARTIAL ART YOU WANT... ANY ONE... it changed after the 90's because of the Gracie's.Chinese have always DESPISED WRESTLER, there are even books of their own saying that, they made fantasy movies about miraculous strikes, now they make a CHINESE WRESTLER movie... even that changed because of the Gracies hahaha
the judo guys after 30 years are still depressed by the JJ hype... There's even an Olympic champion judoka who teaches the difference between the two for FREE on CZcams... Judo and JJ use the same techniques, just like Sambo, Old Wrestler, Wrestling... just like Kick Boxe and Muai Thay or some styles of kung fu and karate also use the same techniques But Judo and JJ use these techniques in COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ways... Newaza of jj is like doing the newaza of judo in reverse... The JJ game doesn't make sense in judo, and the judo game DOES NOT MAKE SENSE IN JJ...because the rules emphasize OPPOSITE concepts...
No way. Helio modified kodokan to be more practical and street ready thus naming it Gracie Jiujitsu. Kodokan looks way more like IBJJF but less evolve.
@@internetastronaut4973 YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW THE STORY... YOU ONLY KNOW THE FAKE STORY TOLD BY THE SUPREMACIST NAZI BOYS... put it on youtube "Carlson Gracie vs Waldemar Santana" (2 jiujitsu fighters who learned from HELIO fighting in 1955) Send me a video of Judo doing something similar... And Jiu jitsu has always been used in street fights... Now if you don't even know what Hélio created, you must think that the original Jiu Jitsu was just newaza... Jiu jitsu that is just newaza appeared in 1993 or 1994... by Gracie Barra who realized that the path was to specialize in the art on the ground, because the Jiujitsu elite began to migrate to other arts such as Muay Thai to train the strike and for judo and wrestling to train the standing part... leaving really in Jiu jitsu the submission game...
@@PauloSilvaX in my understanding and this is just an intelligent debate. The big thing is that kano challenged for the right to teach and was awarded the right to pass on there Japanese heritage threw judo. Threw history Brazil’s judo practitioners where major newaza players which was the instructors of the Gracie’s and they do not honor judo for it. In judo it is explained and taught that judo is a modification of jujitsu.. and I believe it all boils down to that..
Please dont EVER mention or ever “put” Judo close or even the same level of BJJ, y’all are nothing but a stolen art and Kimura already Showed the world which is king
It's a joke? 😂😂😂😂 Kimura is only remembered today because of the Gracies and BJJ... The Gracies created not one, but TWO arts that today are the most popular arts in the world of fighting, MMA and BJJ... The Gracies taught Judo, wrestler and sambo guys how to fight... It is very clear in the fight videos of the 90s, the PROGRESSIVE AND GRADUAL learning, That the graplers had with BJJ, and the strikers too... Then after everyone learned, the little boys appear DENYING HISTORY... From 1930 to 1993 the Gracies knew how to fight and the rest of the world DIDN'T! and has abundant VIDEO documentation of this entire period, WITH ZERO DOCUMENTATION OF WRESTLER, SAMBOKAS, AND JUDOKAS IN THE SAME PERIOD... EVERYONE SPENT 6 OR 7 YEARS LEARNING FROM JIU-JITSU PEOPLE... you couldn't even find a black belt in Brazil at the time because they were spread all over the world, Russia, Europe, USA, Japan, everywhere... EVERY FIRST MMA GENERATIONS FIGHTER hired jiu-jitsu fighters to teach how to fight... They didn't know THE BASICS of new strategy, transitions, postures, clinch, strike for ground game, strike from clinch, distance Control, postite, etc. NONE OF THIS CAME FROM JIGORO KANO, JUDO, WRESTLER OR TRADITIONAL JUJUTSU ... EVERYTHING CAME FROM GRACIE, HELIO, GEORGE, ROLLS AND CARLSON... You talk A LOT OF SHIT, without ANY knowledge, about anything..
There's even a video of Kabib, saying that NO PLACE IN THE WORLD knew the submission game for real fighting, NOT EVEN IN RUSSIA... Kabib's words not mine...
Wrestler and Judo weren't even considered a fight for 99% of the population before the Gracie... The wrestler's main game is ground and pound, wrestlers didn't know how to do it before learning it with jiu-jitsu...There are a dozen wrestling that fought in the 90s, Just watch...After they learned it, it is undeniable that the wrestler adapted to ground and pound even better than jiu-jitsu...BUT THEY DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO...JUDOKAS didn't have A MINIMUM ON HOW TO USE JUDO IN A FIGHT... JUDOKAS talked about jiu-jitsu at the time, they went to fight and nothing worked, they ended up trying to fight like in jiu-jitsu IMPROVISED... It was even comical to see...When I mixed the strike they went into PANIC... Just like wrestlers when the punches started coming in and they panicked not knowing what to do... EVERYTHING FROM THE GRACIE came, there's a video from 1955 of the Gracie already fighting like modern MMA... CARLSON Gracie vs Waldemar Santana, two jiu-jitsu fighters, There's on CZcams just watch... Kimura in Vale Tudo couldn't take it... he didn't know what to do...He was the best of all at the time only in sport jiu-jitsu or judo...
@@paulosilveira4326 complete utter bullshit…judokas dont know how to fight? LMAO BJJ dont even teach the fundamentals of falling….something that happens in a REAL fight
Many paths to the same destination, grandmaster HELIO & CARLOS simply gave you the one with least resistance, be thankful or use brute strength, but remember everyone gets tire and it's a long trip. Thank you my heroes ❤️
The Gracies did created, they are innovators but they didn't create what is now called kosen or kodokan jiu-jitsu but they did at their input to what was already created. However, I can say that about all other forms of new wave jiu-jitsu in the west. Jiu-jitsu is a limitless expression that no one has a monopoly on
Nah. I train BJJ, and even then, the thing that the Gracies deserve credit for is spreading BJJ worldwide and making submission game popular in the west again.
Gracie "We're going to focus only on the newaza of Judo, make tons of money with our own belt system and pretend we came up with it" Student "Teach me your ways master" Gracie, "In good time, Brazilian time" *Ten years pass still stuck at Blue belt with fourteen stripes total cost college degree can't change clubs due to blood sacrifice*
For all of you guys hating on the Gracies for creating nothing or that BJJ is just short for Basically Just Judo then by that logic Judo is basically just classical japanese Jujutsu. Pretty much all grappling oriented martial arts have the same techniques, but the way they're implemented or why they are implemented are completely different. A BJJ guy who knows the single leg takedown is probably going to do it differently than a wrestler due to the risk of chokes. But then again most jiu jitsu guys train for the sport and the sport doesnt really call for learning takedowns.
Not to mention the fact that all Judo techniques are in BJJ but not all BJJ techniques are in Judo. So its more complicated than what both sides of this debate make it out to be. I could also make the same case for Judo and classical japanese jujutsu. Give credit where credit is due. Kano, carlos and helio all helped expand and innovate this sort of family tree of martial arts.
Wow. So Judo uses BJJ teaching methodology? That’s Nuts the Brazilians didn’t even know what Judo was before Judo was introduced to them by how can you sit there with a straight face and say that I think this Sensei is either ignorant or Totally out touch with history I wish BJJ instructors would not give interviews like this know your martial Arts history and limitations and it’s history your students will thank you for it the more facts they know the better. I hate it when a high profile athlete comes out looking to better themselves with falling and BJJ who never ever trains Ukemi in their Dojo all of sudden Jumps on Judo specialty of Ukemi bandwagon but after you read this will say we do this all the time okay right. Just so you know I am speaking for a lot Of voices it’s really ridiculous. Pensacola Judo Training US Marine Corps (rRet)
Teaching methodology already existed, it was called NeWaza of Kodokan Judo.
Then there is Kosen Judo which was the first branch of Judo to deal almost exclusively on ground grappling.
Kano always had a teaching methodology. I have respect for all legends, but BJJ and judo are one family.
No, they’re not lol historically and culturally BJJ has always been this prideful vibe since the days of helio, even stating that BJJ might be superior and in actuality Judo has both standing and ground elements to which in my honest opinion a much more superior level of ground grappling which in reality full well rounded judokas learn both, and yes Kosen judo (ground is a lot more difficult to learn but is more rewarding in terms of skill set) and no i dont ever and should actually not be mentioned in the same “family” as BJJ, in actuality, fights can go either way…not on the ground LMAO
A teaching methodology that they stole from Judo and Japanese Jujutsu
THE METHODOLOGIES DON'T EVEN HAVE SIMILARIES...AND THE CURRICULUM are also very different...at least 70% different...
Now, don't confuse the current BJJ with the Gracie's old one...
The first class at Carlson in the 80's was 3 slaps in the face with full force hahaha
Then they would ask, "Did you like being slapped?", the student would answer no, then they would say... "so come here and I'll teach you how to defend"...
Definitely the methodologies are not similar hahaha
@@PauloSilvaX Jujutsu and Judo first.I respect BJJ very much,but it wouldn’t exist without Kano.
@@PauloSilvaX of course they do! You are ignorant in your thinking in my opinion.Where did this discipline come from? Not from Brazil! That is for sure.
@@theclanmorrison I show you a video of two fighters fighting Jiujitsu Gracie in the year 1955 and you show me one from the same year or similar older, then you prove that I am ignorant and not you... question what the Gracies created WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING WHAT IT WAS...do you think this is today's BJJ... Today's BJJ is from the 90s, created by Gracie Barra Grapler competitions, Helio and George created what today you call MMA...don't worry, JJ's score is not meant to simulate a game, but to simulate an MMA fight...
@@theclanmorrison No one said it would exist without Kano, BJJ is Jigoro Kano's bloodline...
But Kano didn't change martial arts history like Gracie did... PICK ANY MARTIAL ART YOU WANT... ANY ONE... it changed after the 90's because of the Gracie's.Chinese have always DESPISED WRESTLER, there are even books of their own saying that, they made fantasy movies about miraculous strikes, now they make a CHINESE WRESTLER movie... even that changed because of the Gracies hahaha
BJJ=Basically just judo
the judo guys after 30 years are still depressed by the JJ hype...
There's even an Olympic champion judoka who teaches the difference between the two for FREE on CZcams...
Judo and JJ use the same techniques, just like Sambo, Old Wrestler, Wrestling... just like Kick Boxe and Muai Thay or some styles of kung fu and karate
also use the same techniques
But Judo and JJ use these techniques in COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ways...
Newaza of jj is like doing the newaza of judo in reverse...
The JJ game doesn't make sense in judo, and the judo game DOES NOT MAKE SENSE IN JJ...because the rules emphasize OPPOSITE concepts...
No way. Helio modified kodokan to be more practical and street ready thus naming it Gracie Jiujitsu. Kodokan looks way more like IBJJF but less evolve.
@@kingmatrix1345 lol, modified for streets? Ground is the last place you would want to be in a street fight
@@internetastronaut4973 YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW THE STORY... YOU ONLY KNOW THE FAKE STORY TOLD BY THE SUPREMACIST NAZI BOYS...
put it on youtube
"Carlson Gracie vs Waldemar Santana"
(2 jiujitsu fighters who learned from HELIO fighting in 1955)
Send me a video of Judo doing something similar...
And Jiu jitsu has always been used in street fights...
Now if you don't even know what Hélio created, you must think that the original Jiu Jitsu was just newaza...
Jiu jitsu that is just newaza appeared in 1993 or 1994... by Gracie Barra who realized that the path was to specialize in the art on the ground, because the Jiujitsu elite began to migrate to other arts such as Muay Thai to train the strike and for judo and wrestling to train the standing part... leaving really in Jiu jitsu the submission game...
@@PauloSilvaX in my understanding and this is just an intelligent debate. The big thing is that kano challenged for the right to teach and was awarded the right to pass on there Japanese heritage threw judo. Threw history Brazil’s judo practitioners where major newaza players which was the instructors of the Gracie’s and they do not honor judo for it. In judo it is explained and taught that judo is a modification of jujitsu.. and I believe it all boils down to that..
What is he talking about? BJJ comes 1:1 from Kosen Judo, and Helio Gracie was taught a lesson in it by Masahiko Kimura.
R.I.P. Rufino Dos Santos. . .
The Gracie’s created nothing
You're wrong they created stripes.
Culturally appropriated Judo
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation
wikipedia org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation
@@PauloSilvaX bjj fits the definition
@@PauloSilvaX Helio Gracie plagiarized Jigoro Kano
Please dont EVER mention or ever “put” Judo close or even the same level of BJJ, y’all are nothing but a stolen art and Kimura already Showed the world which is king
It's a joke? 😂😂😂😂
Kimura is only remembered today because of the Gracies and BJJ...
The Gracies created not one, but TWO arts that today are the most popular arts in the world of fighting, MMA and BJJ...
The Gracies taught Judo, wrestler and sambo guys how to fight... It is very clear in the fight videos of the 90s, the PROGRESSIVE AND GRADUAL learning, That the graplers had with BJJ, and the strikers too...
Then after everyone learned, the little boys appear DENYING HISTORY...
From 1930 to 1993 the Gracies knew how to fight and the rest of the world DIDN'T!
and has abundant VIDEO documentation of this entire period, WITH ZERO DOCUMENTATION OF WRESTLER, SAMBOKAS, AND JUDOKAS IN THE SAME PERIOD...
EVERYONE SPENT 6 OR 7 YEARS LEARNING FROM JIU-JITSU PEOPLE... you couldn't even find a black belt in Brazil at the time because they were spread all over the world, Russia, Europe, USA, Japan, everywhere...
EVERY FIRST MMA GENERATIONS FIGHTER hired jiu-jitsu fighters to teach how to fight...
They didn't know THE BASICS of new strategy, transitions, postures, clinch, strike for ground game, strike from clinch, distance Control, postite, etc.
NONE OF THIS CAME FROM JIGORO KANO, JUDO, WRESTLER OR TRADITIONAL JUJUTSU ...
EVERYTHING CAME FROM GRACIE, HELIO, GEORGE, ROLLS AND CARLSON...
You talk A LOT OF SHIT, without ANY knowledge, about anything..
There's even a video of Kabib, saying that NO PLACE IN THE WORLD knew the submission game for real fighting, NOT EVEN IN RUSSIA... Kabib's words not mine...
Wrestler and Judo weren't even considered a fight for 99% of the population before the Gracie...
The wrestler's main game is ground and pound, wrestlers didn't know how to do it before learning it with jiu-jitsu...There are a dozen wrestling that fought in the 90s, Just watch...After they learned it, it is undeniable that the wrestler adapted to ground and pound even better than jiu-jitsu...BUT THEY DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO...JUDOKAS didn't have A MINIMUM ON HOW TO USE JUDO IN A FIGHT...
JUDOKAS talked about jiu-jitsu at the time, they went to fight and nothing worked, they ended up trying to fight like in jiu-jitsu IMPROVISED... It was even comical to see...When I mixed the strike they went into PANIC... Just like wrestlers when the punches started coming in and they panicked not knowing what to do...
EVERYTHING FROM THE GRACIE came, there's a video from 1955 of the Gracie already fighting like modern MMA... CARLSON Gracie vs Waldemar Santana, two jiu-jitsu fighters, There's on CZcams just watch...
Kimura in Vale Tudo couldn't take it... he didn't know what to do...He was the best of all at the time only in sport jiu-jitsu or judo...
@@paulosilveira4326 learn Kosen judo…then you’ll realize the Gracie’s are just good at marketing…
@@paulosilveira4326 complete utter bullshit…judokas dont know how to fight? LMAO BJJ dont even teach the fundamentals of falling….something that happens in a REAL fight
Bjj is literally just making a ton of moves that don’t work at high levels. What works are the same 10-20 submissions that judo uses
They (Gracies) created nothing,
What is he yapping about?
Lets agree to disagree on that.
Many paths to the same destination, grandmaster HELIO & CARLOS simply gave you the one with least resistance, be thankful or use brute strength, but remember everyone gets tire and it's a long trip. Thank you my heroes ❤️
Long time Wait for this **true voice**
Thank you professor 🙏
WRONG!
The Gracies did created, they are innovators but they didn't create what is now called kosen or kodokan jiu-jitsu but they did at their input to what was already created. However, I can say that about all other forms of new wave jiu-jitsu in the west. Jiu-jitsu is a limitless expression that no one has a monopoly on
Purple belt in Bjj
But a dan grade judoka. I can assure you Bjj comes from Judo
That's the honestly and short explanation I had in my entire life about bjj
While i acknowledge the issues with the gracies, they def founded bjj. Also to be fair the usa judo revival is thanks to bjj blowing up ultimately.
There are other lineages of BJJ completely unrelated to the Gracie family. The Gracies popularized the art though, and they deserve credit for that.
I'll agree with you though that the judo revival is thanks to BJJ.
Nah. I train BJJ, and even then, the thing that the Gracies deserve credit for is spreading BJJ worldwide and making submission game popular in the west again.
I would say this is fair take
Gracie "We're going to focus only on the newaza of Judo, make tons of money with our own belt system and pretend we came up with it"
Student "Teach me your ways master"
Gracie, "In good time, Brazilian time"
*Ten years pass still stuck at Blue belt with fourteen stripes total cost college degree can't change clubs due to blood sacrifice*
Bjj is Kosenjudo
And Kosenjudo is better.
Bjj is just a copy
Judo
For all of you guys hating on the Gracies for creating nothing or that BJJ is just short for Basically Just Judo then by that logic Judo is basically just classical japanese Jujutsu. Pretty much all grappling oriented martial arts have the same techniques, but the way they're implemented or why they are implemented are completely different. A BJJ guy who knows the single leg takedown is probably going to do it differently than a wrestler due to the risk of chokes. But then again most jiu jitsu guys train for the sport and the sport doesnt really call for learning takedowns.
Not to mention the fact that all Judo techniques are in BJJ but not all BJJ techniques are in Judo. So its more complicated than what both sides of this debate make it out to be. I could also make the same case for Judo and classical japanese jujutsu. Give credit where credit is due. Kano, carlos and helio all helped expand and innovate this sort of family tree of martial arts.
Jujutsu
These brazilians are off their heads. Its all Judo.
👏👏👏👏
Fandango Jujutsu has the closest interpretation of the original.method
Wow. So Judo uses BJJ teaching methodology? That’s Nuts the Brazilians didn’t even know what Judo was before Judo was introduced to them by how can you sit there with a straight face and say that I think this Sensei is either ignorant or Totally out touch with history I wish BJJ instructors would not give interviews like this know your martial Arts history and limitations and it’s history your students will thank you for it the more facts they know the better.
I hate it when a high profile athlete comes out looking to better themselves with falling and BJJ who never ever trains Ukemi in their Dojo all of sudden Jumps on Judo specialty of Ukemi bandwagon but after you read this will say we do this all the time okay right. Just so you know I am speaking for a lot
Of voices it’s really ridiculous.
Pensacola Judo Training
US Marine Corps (rRet)
JJJ
⬇️
Judo
⬇️
BJJ