Why I Failed my detached garage rough In Electrical Inspection
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- Why I failed my electrical inspection. Probably not for the reasons you might be thinking. How I fixed it and even made it better.
Update: I did pass this inspection and we are good to go now.
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DISCLAIMER: I am NOT a LICENSED ELECTRICIAN, just a DIY'er trying to help others who might be in my situation. - Jak na to + styl
Maybe someone already posted this suggestion but there is no need to drive a ground rod - just dig a hole about a foot deep and fill it with water - then take your rod and start working the rod up and down in the hole. The water basically allows you to push the rod completely into the ground or you can use your foot for the last foot or so. I've won multiple bets over the years with this method. Good video!
Yeah, I have heard about that method. Unfortunately, it was after I beat the shhhh out of that rod, though 🤣 If I ever do it again, I will try the water method. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
uh... i doubt that will work here in vegas. the ground is caliche.
This is awesome to show your mistakes. Many cannot swallow their pride to do this. Thanks!
I try share my failures and successes. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
@@JustinsProject No problem! We all made mistakes with wiring. Even electricians do, (Or just get lazy). Keep up the vids!
The issue the inspectors had was the unprotected romex. Romex is not rated for exposed installations. Instead of ripping out all your work, you should have been able to frame out your interior walls, ceiling and sheath it with drywall or other sheatgoods to conceal those wires and you would pass your final. That's why you see any unfinished room or building with small sections of drywall installed. Cover the romex and you pass code
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Exactly. It's not an agriculture building issue. It's just unprotected wire in open walls. Two ground conductors 6' apart is common. Just use the rod itself to measure. The grounding conductor to them per table which seemed to be 8 but he has other ideas.
@LarsDennert They allow unprotected wires (Romex) in unfinished basements all the time. Most of the time, it's overhead in the floor joist. So, I assume it's also a height threshold as well.
@@JustinsProject possibly basements are not considered habitable space just like a crawl space or attic. Garages though not technically habitable either, have safety codes especially where fire and ventilation are concerned. There's so many codes, rules and exceptions that following them all without making a mistake is tough. I've seen inspectors make mistakes and omissions as well and I've certainly done some stuff not to code. We all just get smarter as we go.
Licensed electrician here and I didn’t know about the agriculture rule either. Nitpicking if you ask me. Wired plenty of pole barns in Romex.
Good thing I didn't have the entire building wired than get that news. Caught it early and now I know going forward to just use the MC Cable in that building for any future inspections I might need. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍
I could see that as one of those "local juristiction" things.
@@larrystuder8543 It could be worse I suppose. All in all not to bad. I don't like working with MC though. I need to look for some tips and tricks to make it easier on myself wiring the rest of the building.
Invest in the rotary cutter meant for mc cable much faster than a hack saw and you don't have to worry about nicking the wires
@@JustinsProject ,I would use pvc conduit. It stand up to elements plus is you use all 3/4 watch you fill if in the future you need to add a circuit just pull in same conduit.
inside wire apprentice here, just commenting to say I appreciate the due diligence you've done, in your project. Well made videos documenting your progress. Iv'e learned so much and love the respect you show by commenting thoroughly to all your followers. You're awesome, looking forward to learning more from your videos.
Much appreciated 🙏 I try to share the good and bad sides of my projects. We all know it's doesn't always go perfect. Learning from each others successes and failures will make us all better. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Your the real deal! Not only do you show your mistakes along with the correct method but also the pain in getting it done correctly. I have made many mistakes, (a part leftover from an engine rebuild , forgot to solder one pipe fitting etc.) but hung in there, persisted and yes into the wee hours the morning finished. I learned a lot thank you for sharing!
Much appreciated 🙏 I have a huge update video coming out in a couple of days on the progress of finishing my shop. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Inspector told me, gotta have a light outside at one entrance of the AG building control by a 3 way or a automatic control via a dusk to dawn . Since the building is an area where the fire department man 24-7, gotta have an exterior disconnect in a area visible for them to turn off. And an exterior mounted GFCI outlet one for each side of the building. Nice love to chew Romex and bugs can nest in breakers. So I wired my pole barn with weather tight NEMA 3 R everything. Even tho it's inside. Also when I had the trench open, I laid in conduit for Ethernet. And when laying out the circuits, made previsions for an exhaust fan to blow out fumes when working inside on the tractor during the extreme hot AZ summers.
Great idea on the internet line. Wish I would have done that. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Anywhere the romex would be exposed, you need to use MC or conduit. Now if you had thrown drywall or plywood over the romex. It would pass.
And every separate building with a panel needs its own grounding system.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
As an electrician, you'll have dozens of inspections a year both residential and commercial. Per NEC and different municipal regulations, you'll learn all the little things over the years. With that said, everything in this setup is clean. Good job👍
Thanks 👍🏻
The guy at Home Depot told me the easiest way to put a grounding rod is to soak the ground the day before. I left the hose with a trickle of water over night. The grounding rod sank half down with its on weight. Than I just hammered it down the rest of the way. Super easy as the Home Depot guy said. 👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks for sharing that tip. Next time I'll give that a try. Appreciate you watching and commenting 👍🏻
The easiest way is to by a ground rod tool for your SDS hammer drill!
@Rusty Cas Yeah if I ever need to do this again I'll just go out and grab one of those. Never again will I hammer it like I did. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
@@JustinsProject It definitely works installing the rod AND removing a buried one. Did it both ways many times
Love your honesty. Here in Alaska when the inspector came out he asked me if I cut the ground rods. I looked eye to eye and said if I ever have to do it again. I will get a backhoe dig the hole pour 20 pounds of salt in it and back fill the hole. Me and another much younger guy used my 20 pound sledge hammer. I tell you it made us extra human. LOL Liked to kill us. But i did find out why no contractor ever claimed back the 20 pound hammer.
Much appreciated 🙏 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Much respect for sharing this. This will help many people other than myself. I watched it as a precaution so I didn't have any problems. Thanks Justin
Much appreciated 🙏 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Had a similar situation. I live about Midthumb in Michigan and I built a steel building back in 2020 during the Covid era. I got a great deal on it and it’s a wonderful building and Wood was just too expensive at the time. Because it was a steel building yes I had to use all MC cable, I had to use all metal boxes, I was able to use plastic covers which I thought was kind of odd but I didn’t say anything. And I’m with you, I would so much rather use Romax and he said I could if I studed the whole building out. Well if I was going to do that I might as well have just went with a wood building. Now if dad was still alive he could bend pipe in his sleep. He knew how to bend Pipe and even use larger pipe to get more conductors going through it he could make it look all nice and pretty. I could but I don’t have five years to do it so I use the MC, and my building isn’t even close to the size of yours. But yeah they made me jump through some hoops with it but nonetheless, I’m glad you got it all taken care of and yeah, good thing you didn’t have it all done and then he tells you you were wrong. But nonetheless, thanks for the video you did a nice job.
My father was the same way. He could build and make just about anything work. He would have loved to be part of all these projects I got going on. One thing I never worked with him on was mc, that was kinda foreign to me when I started this project. Now, knowing that I ended up finishing the inside of my shop, I wish I used romex everywhere. I'm glad you got all of yours taken care of also. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Cool man
You’re a good man.
Electrical is life safety and there’s a good reason why you have to install the correct equipment.
All good we all have done stuff that had to be corrected.
Good attitude.
Beautiful place.
Must appreciated 🙏 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
I ran all the wiring in my shed in EMT conduit with THHN wiring, but it's sub panel is connected to the main panel with buried UF cable and I was told the buildings were too close to require a separate grounding rod. I installed all the outlets and lighting circuits but an electrician set the panel and made the connection to the main.
Awesome stuff! Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Never wired a agricultural building. Good to know. Thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Good job brother. Good info for those that don't know. Glad to see no bitterness about the inspector. A lot of people would blame the inspector for their shortcoming. The NEC and inspectors are there for safety. 99.9% of inspectors want it to be safe. There are a few who are impressed with their title. Ag and industrial wiring must be protected using MC (metal clad) cable, emt, rigid, or pvc conduit. Nice vid!
Thanks for watching and commenting
Great video. The end work looked very nice and neat. Inspectors see neat/clean work and they think you did everything correctly, sloppy work... they start digging. I've never failed an inspection but I've had them call out sloppy work.
Thanks! 👍🏻
Did you know mc cable actually has a one way spiral on them so they do pull easier thru studs if you have it in the correct orientation you really find this out when trying to pull it thru metal studs.
I do now 😁 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Thanks for the video. I'm looking to put in a sub-panel in my garage, but not looking forward to all the work. Thanks again for the education.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻 Goodluck with your install.
7:00 the sell bit which goes on a hammer drill to hammer those rods in the ground, worked like butter for me... I also saw a video of someone who used water hammer them into the ground with their bare hands most of the way...
Thankfully I don't have drive anymore in the ground at this time. Thanks for the heads up on the hammer drill tactic. I have a good strong Bosch hammer drill that could have saved me a shhh ton of work had I known beforehand. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Worst part of EVERY job... driving those by hand. My boss finally got a hammer drill with the 5/8 adapter.... smooth as butter. Wear hearing protection.
@@JustinsProject I was lucky, I picked up a used Bosch hammer drill and a bunch of other klien electrical stuff from retired electricians estate sale, the case only had one weird bit, after googling I figured out it was for hammering in rods and retailed for $50... I have seen them in the $20 range, or the water method stick a hose with running water in the hole with the rod as you slide the rod up and down...
@@ericfraser7543 Nice, love auctions. Sometimes you get something cool even when you didn't know it was cool.
That’s good to know. We all are not perfect even the best experienced electricians gets it wrong sometimes.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
I learned a lot today from you and and the other comments. I for one really like your building. Nice job...
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
This is why people just forgo the permitting process and do their own thing, because of technicalities that cost money but actually offer no benefit to application at hand.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
When your barn burns to the ground and the insurance company catches the lack of permitting and code compliance, then guess who doesn't get a check.
its not a "technicality " you cant run romex exposed anywhere.
@@manandatractornot everyone lives in an area with permits and inspections. What then?
Great job
I found it easier to leave the MC spool at the panel and pull the cable to where it needs to go instead of starting at a switch in pulling the wire out of the spool and carrying the spool with you
Thx. Appreciate the tip. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Use bracket 4square boxes and raised covers it’ll allow more space when you terminate
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
All my farm wiring is in conduit. Eliminates ground issues and incidental damage. When you mix in heavy equipment or animals something always is going to snag that wire regardless of how many staples. Once in good for a lifetime and easier to expand
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Glad you passed! I failed a few months ago for an agricultural building that I used MC in. He said it needed to be the jacketed type mc - which he read as the vinyl coated mc. Expensive interpretation
Wow! That's craziness. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
You should have asked him to site the reference. We use standard MC cable in ag buildings all the time. He's going to tell you a barn is a damp location. Tell him to prove it to you in the IBC.
Thats bullshit from a bancrupted electrician now inspector.
@@leesummers6979 NEC 547.5 (A) The only MC permitted is jacketed type MC in agricultural buildings.
Unfortunately he's right. It's in the NEC in the article specifically written for agriculture structures.
For driving grounding rods I took a 10 foot stick of 1/2 inch EMT. I put an angle cut on one end and attached a fitting for a garden hose on the other. Attach a garden hose then just run it up and down, letting the water the dig the hole. Then take it out and tap in the ground rod.
Great tip! Thanks
Thank you. It's simple. But it takes more time than people really think.
Its only a pice of wire
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Sorry to hear that you are having issues. The two ground rods and #6 copper is correct no matter what kind of building it is classified.
I’m not sure why you had it classified as Agricultural but so be it. The NEC article dealing with Ag Building electrical installations is Article 547. 547.1 says that that portion of NEC applies to areas within buildings with Dust and dust with water, and also Corrosive Atmosphere. Whom what I see, you will never have either of these two conditions that would require you to apply 547 rules. Article 547.3 says where you do not have those conditions in 547.1, the electrical installations shall be made in accordance with the applicable articles in this Code. That means that you are not required to use only wiring methods listed in 547. So, your original installation with NM-B cable and plastic boxes is NEC correct. Warning though, you may be required to protect all cables below 8’ from physical damage since you are not installing in enclosed walls.
My suggestion. Discuss article 547.1 and 547.3 with your inspector and see if they will agree that those rules do not apply to your building.
Respectfully, Kevin
Much appreciated 🙏 We got it all sorted out and got the "pass" with those changes. It is classified as a agricultural building because that is the building permit I pulled with planning and zoning. Saved me 10's of thousands of dollars on the build. My acreage allowed for us to utilize that type of permit so we did. I also planned on the structure being the base for our solar array. Which is working out nicely so far.
@@JustinsProject The point is, future electrical work in the building is not required to comply with article 547 of the NEC and your inspector needs to be made aware of that. Right is right!
@@KevinCoop1 I definitely agree 👍🏻 💯 I will be pointing out those articles when I expand on the wiring in this building.
@@JustinsProject Just curious how it saved you 10’s of thousands of dollars. Could you not use pole barn construction if it was not agricultural? Where I live (“out in the county” in rural Arkansas) we have no codes, no inspections, and no permits required, at least for residential. Makes things a lot easier, but also “buyer beware” when you buy property.
@@RustyCas999 If it was not an ag permit it would require poured footers, trusses would have to be 16in or 24in OC, and complete outer sheeting would have been required before the metal went up. Several other factors that would increase the cost but those are some big ones. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Dang Brother! you kinda do it all....appreciate someone who takes care of business, oh to be young again....LOL....62 here and still this old Dog is learning new tricks all the time on CZcams...thanks again for your vids...I had to subscribe to your channel...see ya in your next vid...I will slowly but surely check them all out in due time...Peace to You and Yours good Sir...Paul and Dede from Indianapolis, Indiana...
Much appreciated 🙏 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻 Hope to have a new video coming soon.
A primary disconnection for feeders in isolated from primary bldg. must be well marked.a main might suffice but a seperate disconnect close to entrance would be best.
Thanks for watching and commenting
A hard to do confession; but the Reg's are available, most likely at the local library, and even on on-line. I'm an electrician and I still have to read the Reg's now and then to keep my own work sharpened. There are also things called "Amendments" as compulsory reading.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
My SIL is a Master Electrician in MASSACHUSETTS and I am astounded by the number of codes there are to follow. Most of what I have wired in 50 years is perfectly safe...but there is a code violation around every corner. I think they get carried away with some of the petty stuff.
My electrician told me the hot tip for driving rods... chuck it up in an impact drill and it goes down like a knife thru butter. Good to know now you're done ;)
👍🏻 Next time I'll definitely go that route. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
There are also bits you can buy for SDS type impact drills that slip over the end of the rod.
On the plus side: The inspector was apparently happy with the way you ran the feed to your barn. Most folks mess up there.
An outside disconnect is often required.
I am surprised you were able to use just "ordinary" breakers. I can see such a job requiring AFCI breakers, GFCI breakers, and a surge suppressor.
Some might have required the use of weatherproof boxes and WR rated receptacles.
Everything was required to be on a gcfi breaker or outlet. I chose to install the outlet method. If I had it to do over, I would do dual functional breakers.
I'm surprised the inspector didn't say anything about the plastic cover plates. They often require metal when there is no wall board.
Yeah me too 😁 I had them on hand just incase. I hate those metal covers lol I'm glad it was ok on the covers that I had on there though.
Or the unbreakable plastic ones
Where the MC cable comes down and then turns 180 to the bottom of the switch box. The radius of the 180 bend looks tight. Rule for MC is radius no more then 7 times diameter of cable.
Is that calculated from the cable or the wire size? It's about a 5in radius on that loop. The metal housing is about 1/2in. The wire is 14 on that switch. I think it's good to go on that loop. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
It is so nice to live where there are no permits or inspections.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
In one area did not want bonding bushings in the meter base and over in another city required a bonding bushing in the meter while doing a service change at a house.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
The beauty of using conduit over MC is, your system is easily expandable if you need to change or add a circuit. You just need to be aware of conduit fill and deration requirements.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
With all due respect to the inspector, I believe the NEC may have been misapplied.
The problem is with the use of the term "agricultural building." Your building looks like a simple garage / workshop. Such a building can use "Romex."
"Agricultural building" is further defined by the code (NEC) as more than just a building used on a farm. Additional elements are required, such as washdown activities (and I'm not talking about washing your tractor), bulk handling of loose feed and fertilizer (dust and corrosion issues), the housing of animals, etc. The concerns center on corrosion (ammonia from waste) and physical damage (chewing).
An agricultural building CAN use type "NMC" cable. This is an electrical unicorn -- no such cable exists. The equivalent cable is known as "UF," or underground feeder.
The permit pulled for the construction of the building stated it was an agriculture structure.
I have access to an sds plus hammer drill, i just had to purchase to ground rod driver bit. It makes short work of driving ground rods. Until you hit a big rock or thick caliche.
I always wonder what the reasons are for particular codes. There usually is a reason. Although, it seems that the intent isn't always followed, but the exact letter.
Funny story. I own an SDS and I didn't even think about using it. 🤣 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Thanks for the video, clears up a good bit of questions and you talk like me(no offense) so I can understand what you’re explaining. Now do a 60 amp run 200 feet. That’s my current project.
🤣 Thanks! I am working on wiring the building now and hooking up a 50amp circuit for welding. That's about as close to 60 I will get in there. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
I wonder if the no romex in an ag building has to do with it being exposed in open walls. The rule here is if romex, need to cover walls with drywall/wood etc.
100% Now that I am finishing it and covering the walls, romex is allowed. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
un-armoured cable would also fail in an unfinished utility room if not tucked into the joists/etc (e.g. out of reach).
Makes sense to me. From my understanding that is same concept for the ag building. Because the walls and ceilings are exposed and not covered it requires the MC or Conduit. However the inspector stated it stills needed to be secured in the wall cavity similar to the Romex wiring would be. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍
IV WORK AT THE USNA FOR 10 YRS, AND THATS ALL I USED IS MC CABLE. AT THAT TIME IT WAS CALLED ARMERED CABLE WITH NO GROUND. IF U WANTED A GROUND CABLE IN IT U WOULD HAVE TO PAY EXTRA. I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT PULL BURN'S. GREAT VID'S TKS.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
MC is not the same as armored cable, they're different products.
"Two ground rods" is . . . unfortunate. You would have met the requirement -- and in a better way -- had you placed twenty feet of #4 copper within your concrete slab, clamping it to your rebar or mesh.
I shudder at driving rods with a little maul as you did. Thank heaven your soil is soft. I commend your aim and patience. Post drivers are cheap, or you could have rented an SDS-Max roto-hammer to do the job. (Battery powered roto-hammers exist).
I wish I had planned better.
Take the lug off feed it to where you need it then bend it...also it's always 2 ground rods and number 6 unless it's protected
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Some times you have to talk to the inspector and ask him what he wants to see, then build that way.
Definitely. Thanks for the tip! 👍🏻
Gfci is mostly for any area that can get wet! Or where you would plug a extension cord in and take that to wet location. Gfci circuits do not play nice with motors like refrigerator and air compressor.
I put everything in the building on a GFCI. Each circuit starts with one and then down the line is protected by it. Still working on configuring how I want to layout my shop. It's a process, but already know it is not big enough 🤣
About to embark on a similar project for a detached garage.... alot of good info here! (Not just the video, but you've got some great commenters as well... the pro's I mean)
Much appreciated 🙏 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Frank, his building classification hosed him here. A garage or out building can be wired like a house. The recepticles need gfci protection iaw 210.8.
An agricurtural building may get you tax advantages or some other advantage, but they expect animals or fish to be in an agricultural building and that adds requirements to keep the animals safe and the electrical system safe.
Also, consider your trenches carefully. While they are open consider several conduits.....
One big enough for a 200 Amp run. You can run a #14 wire circuit in a 2 in pipe, you could then slide that out with a rope attached to pull in a 2/0.circuit whenever you want. At least no more trenching to boost up your power.
And maybe 2 smaller conduits....
When your hobby becomes a part time job, you might want cable for TV or data to hardwire internet or security cameras or even some flashing lights....a dinnerbell or emergency warning light that flashes so you can see it when your work blocks the sound of your phone.
If the trench is open, you can just throw the pipes in and vacuum in a string. Then cap them for future use with no need to re-dig anything.
More expense, yes. Cheaper than re-digging a second trench....you bet.
Hope that helps.
If this is an AG structure then it should AG exempt from the building code, which doesn't require inspections. Not sure what state this is in but in the Old Dominion that's how we roll.
Inspection was required by the county even though it was an AG permitted structure. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
The electrical building code (NEC) has a section 90.4 that allows different places to completely ignore it if they want.
The agricutural building section is set up to be an umbrella type section to cover animal storage.
A grounding section for cattle/pigs.
An electrical system protection section because bird/chicken poop may corrode the wires into a fire.
A dust section because some fish feed or plants may create flammable dust floating in your building.
I do not live in a farming community so my knowledge is limited here. Just be safe. Someone had to create a situation and suffer in order to get a special rule in the building codes.
Call your inspector back and tell him your switch box is too small by .5 cu. inch. Surface mounted devices require unbreakable cover plates. Nice job for a non pro.
🤣 Thanks! That's funny because I actually bought metal covers and had them on hand, just incase. 😁 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
So what it is is being corrosion resistant. Type NM which you had to take out isn't. Type NMC is. If you can get it. MC cable isn't. Vinal coated like you had to buy is.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
2 ground rods 5/8 inch 6 feet apart with #6 ground wire for 100 amp and a #4 ground wire for a 200 amp
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Should have never said anything to inspection authorities. Should have stayed with pole barn get your final inspection wait a week then carry on with the electrical
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Almost wired a dance hall in Romex but decided to ask about the wires. It too had to be in M/C cable because of number of people, capacity of the hall. Glad I asked!! Also, you can use such a short grounding rod? Here it is a TEN foot rod always! Hmmm...
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Thank you Justin... This was the information I need to wire my metal garage. U Da Man 😁
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Just crusing the tube ended up watching, shucks I actually learned some stuff I did not know so thank you and you are quite a character but a good one! Oh and that rod driving is always interesting, I got lucky on all 3 I ever did but out of breath each time 😜
Much appreciated 🙏 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Excellent video! Been there and done that😊 Doing it the right way isn't necessarily easy.
Appericate it! True, but it is the only way to do it. Even if it takes a little more effort. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Ask your inspector but the way I read it once you reach the rafters (out of potential damage zone) you can run romex
I am trying to determine if MC would be needed if I finish the walls. The wire would be protected at that point also. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
@@JustinsProject the key is protection of the wires
Even if you cover the area around the main until it gets too 7 ft
@@davereynolds6912 I remember him saying something like that also. I told him I wasn't finishing it anytime soon... but now I want to finish a section. I will probably do videos on that process as well.
MC is expensive. Buying an EMT bender, emt conduits and thhn/thwm wires cost the same, but is much neater and you can fish additional wires through the emt later if room is permitted. Dont buy your wires from the local stores either, order them, a 250ft spool of 12g thhn is $50.
I have it all concealed behind the walls now. I've been finishing it out for several months. Just 2 more rooms to complete. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
How nice it is to drive a ground rod into the ground. Doesn’t work so well here in Vegas
Lots of rock out there? It would be nicer to be able to drive it with the proper tools, though. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Bottom line is NM cable is not rated for exterior applications and an agricultural building is unheated, damp, and corrosive. UF cable is fine. Kinda surprised if standard MC cable (also interior) passes. That spiral jacket can corrode. The NEC doesn't care what you are actually using the building for, but what it's designated as.
That's exactly what the inspector said. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Your awesome!! Keep it up and keep doin vids! Like how you present yourself and the way you tackle projects and overcoming everything that comes with the nature of the beasts!! Raw and Real is the deal and you are the R&R!!!
Much appreciated 🙏 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
I know codes vary from state to state but the building I just built has a floating slab with a thicker outer edge. The building is bolted to it. I wonder if that is considered a footing. Thanks for the heads up to check my buildings classification.
Your welcome. Thanks for watching and commenting. 👍
Your 1st grounding rod needs to be 4ft. From the structure, then 2nd needs to be 4ft. From the first one, going away from structure.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Just a guess, but maybe the MC is required in an ag building because there could be animals in there.
That's exactly what the inspector stated. I understand the concept and it needs to be built to last far beyond my ownership. The next guy might have cows or horses in there. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
DUDE YOU NEED TO GO TO HARBOR FRIGHT
Got one just down the street. Thanks
I thought it was a 100 amps if so you #8 was ok. The 2 ground rod rule on a out building go by AHJ. Most dont understand what that rod is for.
It was 100 amp sub but they told me #6 ground was required. Not terrible fix but it was something that I had to fix though. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
#6 is the minimum for the grounding electrode conductor. For a 100 amp circuit a #8 equipment ground would be fine. I believe
Nec 250-64 and 250-122.
What lights did you install on your ceiling, what is the spacing you used, and what is your ceiling height if you wouldn’t mind sharing please? After the fact, are you still happy with them?
12ft ceilings, bought the lights at Menards, yes, still happy. I have more videos on my build out of the stop. It looks a lot different now.
Good thing there is an MC rule. Maybe not you, but frequently there is a rodent risk in these work structures.
True. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Get a Roto Split tool for MC cable.
Might have to try that. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Nice shop! Great job.
Thanks for watching and commenting! 👍
corrosion is a real threat to electrics in barns and such. weather proofing inside is a plus....
True, I have been working on finishing the interior of the shop. What a job for one guy. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
@@JustinsProject sure, my pleasure.
Your jurisdiction must have some amendments. I’m fortunate that I can use NFPA70 2017, 2020, or 2023 as so I desire. Most of my state have no additional amendments and allow us to follow the NEC NFPA70.
In 2017 NFPA70 (334.10)(1) covers attached and detached garages and storage buildings. Except as prohibited by (334.12).
334.10(A) Allows for NM cable to be exposed or concealed, unless your building was not classified under (334.10)(1) than it would be prohibited by (334.10)(3) which would require a 15minute flash rating. However, I would argue that this building would be under (334.10)(1) as a detached garage.
As long as your building doesn’t fall under (334.12)(A)10 hazardous classified location, or (334.12)(B)(1 and 4) exposed to corrosive fumes or vapors. Or considered a wet or damp location. You should be able to proceed with NM Cable.
(334.15)(B) Exposed Work and Protection from physical damage. NM cable that is subject to physical damage has to be protected by RMC, IMC, EMT, or Schedule 80 PVC. You may also use RTRC marked with suffix -xw.
So if NM had to be in walls, (334.15) wouldn’t exist.
By the way MC or Metal Clad would be prohibited by the NEC NFPA70. In the 2017 version (330.12)(1) Prohibits the use of MC where exposed to physical damage, and there is no remedy allowed , such as running the MC through conduit. The 2020 and 2023 versions still prohibit using MC when exposed to physical damage.
Seems the AHJ told you to do something that is prohibited by the NEC. Assuming the AHJ told you to use MC Cable!!
My jurisdiction does what it wants 😁 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Aww you poor guy redoing all that work (especially the second ground rod) and extra expenses. You even sounded out of breath, so sorry, but I bet you swore like a sailor when you found out your inspection failed. I know I would have. Rework and extra expenses are never good thing. Great video. I also added a 9.87kW solar system to my shop but fortunately out here in my area we do not need county inspections.
Never again will I hand drive a ground rod lol Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Don't blame you. I drove one in myself and was tuckered out.
We don't have any electrical inspections around here.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Pour water in the hole with the rod🎉
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
60 years doing this and I can tell you the code is bullshit BUT your failure to ask before you start should illustrate the need.
I did consult with a local electrician before making my first attempt. He was caught off guard by the rule being enforced also but in the end, it was the inspector's call. He was cool about it though and gave a logical explanation for why it needed to be. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍
Mice and squirrels love to chew on wiring so it makes sense. It isn’t a inhabited structure so should be your choice.
True, I got it all squared away and actually finished the interior of the building also. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
What are the details on the lights? They look good! Where did you get them?
I picked them up at Menards, but you can get them on Amazon if you don't have a Menards in your area. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Nice job
Thanks 👍🏻
yeah that's right. romex can't be seen. that's the rule as i understand it. its only good if its behind drywall. given its an agriculture build are you forbidden from insulating it and drywalling the interior?
Yes, I have actually finished the interior of the shop now. Had I known that I was going to do that so soon, I could have used all the romex. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Licensed Journeyman electrician in Michigan I would challenge the ground rods and wire as that panel is a load center, not a main panel. A load center is fed too via the main panel ( 220/240 volt ) with two feed one neutral and the ground wire all grounding is to be done through the main panel that is why you have neutrals on one bar the grounds on the bar mounted to the box and the bonding screw removed. Lastly emt and metal boxes definitely a great way to go
Thanks for the information! Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Per NEC ... the ground rods are required for the separate building.
As none lincesed can you pull permit for high voltage permit as home owner or your permit is submitted by licensed contractor and you do the work?
Yes, if you are doing the work for yourself. It still needs to pass the electrical inspection and get final approval. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Use water put the ground rod in, much easier. Never have to use a hammer.
Awesome, thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
get yourself a Hilti TE 70 with an SDS Max ground rod adapter
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Inspector must have stock in electric wire.
🤣 I wish I invested in copper a couple years back.
PVC conduit is super expensive these days. Not sure about the EMT? My pole barn uses Romex but not required to meet code here in the country where I live. I can see the issue with cutting one since not enclosing the wall
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
I liked your honesty and willingness to admit mistakes. Keep it real 😜. We are all human. When I said I live in the country I didn't mean a foreign country just out in the country. Smack dab in the middle of the USA.
How do you know armored cable will pass inspection? The NEC specifically says that it is not permitted where subject to damage.
It did pass the inspection on this go. Inspector advised it would still need to be secured in the wall cavity similar to the Romex wiring would be. I'm glad we got it worked out and I can start the next wiring project, wiring my solar array on the roof. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍
Yes but what kind of damage, I seen 4" rigid metal conduit damaged outside of a building.
The NEC section covering this building lists wiring methods allowed. Section 547.5.(A). Lists the allowed methods......uf cable, se cable, pvc conduit, and many more..
Very good video.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
It’s to help keep bi , rats Livestock from biting on it much stronger system
True 👍🏻 thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Thanks for posting this and your other video. I just had a pole building built and we’re getting ready to do the electric. Did they tell you why you can’t use Romex in the barn?
Another question unrelated but, What did you use for insulation on your walls?
Thanks.
Yes, he mentioned that romex was not allowed in this building because it was technically a ag building. Because it's an ag building the wiring may be exposed and must be protected in a conduit for some sort. It would be tricky if the wires were gong to be behind covered walls but at this time my are not. I have not installed studs or insulation at this time but I am in the process of prepping to do some of the framing very soon. I will be using 24" OC framing and R19 in the walls when I do complete it though. I hope that helps! Thanks for watching and commenting.
Why would you need a second ground rod at the sun panel?
The inspector required me to install it to pass
@@JustinsProject I’m not an electrician, but maybe if the sub panel is in a speedster structure, it needs its own rod. But a sub panel still in the same structure as the main does not. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong.
That electrorode was hard!
With a 🔨 its a workout for sure. But, it can be done.
"Wise men learn from other's mistakes."
2020 NEC 547 is the section dealing with Agricurtural Buildings.
"EQIPOTENTIAL PLAN" may sound familiar. Yes, that section. Extra requirements based on the animals that might live there.....corrosive chicken poop, live stock, etc.
Be safe, have a smart build, and thank you for the NEC review.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Do you have a hammer drill? Makes driving a ground rod a lot easier!
I didn't have the bit but should have bought one 🤣 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Only the left channel of your audio is working. 😮
Yeah, that was a technical problem with my old microphones. I got those updated just shortly after the release of this video. My apologies. Thanks for watching and commenting! 👍