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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- A completely new & intense strategy!
YouPudding pt. 3: • The Legend of YouPuddi...
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This video was created under Microsoft's "Game Content Usage Rules" using assets from Age of Empires, © Microsoft Corporation.
It's great to see meta change based on creative players instead of updates forcing people to play certain ways. Most games can't do what 20 year old game does.
Agree I think thats why like these legends players. Playing moderates or pros they all use the same strategy, its like watching the same game. The thinking is that you have to use the meta, do what everyone is doing, or you lose. But these legends players play so differently and bring something new that is very enjoyable watching them, especially if you have been playing this game on and off since elementary like me lmao, they add a bit of spice for me.
These players do not change or add anything to the metagame, in fact the metagame is metagame because it beats these strategies. They are fun to watch once, yes, but they are not winning strategies (mainly because their win condition is to surprise, in the long run they are unsustainable, that's why they are not metagame).
@@kudoushinichi1412 Surprise is factor yes, but I would not say meta beats this if opponent is not surprised, I think main factor is that it is all-in, all-in strategies are not meta because they are risky, not because they are weaker than meta, as if you dont do enough damage with all-in you lose.
As for it not being sustainable in long run, well win condition of that strategy is finish game fast or at least damage opponent a lot, that does not care about sustainability, you could say using gold units is not sustainable as gold on the map is limited, that does not make it bad strategy. Also nothing is stopping you from resuming normal eco once you do enough damage (that switch is risky as you dont want to undermine your push).
This strat and the Sicilians strat literally emerged solely because of new updates, and are now forcing everyone to play a certain way to either capitalise on or defend from them. Your comment makes no sense.
@@belisarian6429 I think my bad English did not allow me to express what I wanted to say. 11
By "sustainable in long run" I did not mean "sustainable in the late game", but in different games. The point is that this strategy, like Sicilian rush, are easily stopped when you already expect them, because their only win condition is surprise. That's why White Phosporus dropped 300 ELO points when his strategy became known, that's why iDabs dropped 400 ELO points when his 20 FC Mongol became popular, that's why so many OTPs return to their ELO, because their strategies are not sustainable in the long term.
Conspiracy: Youpudding is a Microsoft plant to get people to buy the DLC expansions. T90 in on it. LOL
The Dravidians saga between Hera and Viper definitely made some people buy the DLC.
Now there has to appear a new super cool strategy with Bohemians or Poles and the conspiracy becomes real.
Holy moly a conspiracy that might actually be true
Hahaha yessss the kinds of comspiracys I like. Reckon there would be layers to it, theyve dooped T90 so hes not in on the whole thing so he cant blow the cover on the whole operation
we consider this a meme now, but i actually think this is very important for aoe2. it questions the one of the most fundamental things in the game: and that is to never idle your tc. he takes it to the extreme, ignores all standard eco approaches and relies solely on some very strong early castle power spikes. and it works. i really think this new approach will change the meta and push some more extreme and agressive strats.
If you saw the latest King of the Desert, Hera was actually idling his TC quite a bit to make more military early in the game. He’s definitely experimenting with idling eco to be more aggressive and it works pretty well.
Yip. Same thing Hoang realised.
I've thought about it quite a lot the last few years. But specifically, the question of, why do players lose when they're ahead 20/30 villigers? In theory, they should be able to produce more units every minute than the opponent. So why they lose? The obvious answer is because they're behind in millitary, of course. But it begs the question why they can't catch up, since they have a higher income. Well what happens most of the time is they're ahead in income but they're still investing most of it into even more economy and therefore never catch up on production and techonology in time. So I've had this question for a while, what if you start out booming, get a villiger lead, but then at some point, just a little bit earlier than when a boom will usually pay off, you just stop all your tcs and eco upgrades and switch literally all of your income into production tech an millitary. Now you can be sure that you're out-producing the enemy. Now of course it is already meta to do one version of this: namely, pros will very often idle tc when on a 3tc boom if they want to get to imp. But that's just one example. And quite a late one. I wanted to try doing this but for a castle age post-boom earlier-than-normal spike. After lots of trial and error, I got this working with the Cumans on the Fortress map. I do a Feudal Age 2tc boom, go castle, and then as soon as I get to castle age, I idle both tcs completely. Now I'm 10/12 villigers ahead and investing 100% of my income into steppe lancers from 3 stables and rams (which the cumans get early upgrades). The opponent is behind in villigers AND they're still investing into eco. So they have a LOT LESS to spend on millitary for the next 4/5 minutes. It works on fortress because the walls and castle mean you can't be punished for the boom. And it works incredibly well. I'm on something like a 20 game win streak with cumans on fortress. But yea. I think there's a lot of room to explore idling tcs. Either like these guys, early in the game, or like I did, after a boom. In fact at all sorts of times it could be worth it. The way I see it, all you're doing is this, you're saying I'm going to sacrifice a bunch of eco in future for a power spike now. And since the timings of power spikes can be so so crucial, I suspect there are a lot of cases where it does actually make sense that have yet to be discovered. The traditional logic is that when you go boom you have to go all in boom. I agree with this, but only until such time as you want the boom to kick in. And if you want it to kick in a minute earlier, a little tc idle will get you there. You're sacrificing a lot, to be sure, but man a minute can really change a game sometimes.
@@neildutoit5177
Idling eco is great for a short-term power spike but usually those attacks only deal some eco damage at best - hardly ever it's straight up gg. If your opponent is going full boom with no map control, it's not as much about having a good strat, rather just punishing your opponent's greed by attacking when they're vulnerable.
Also it can only work when you're obviously ahead, like with Cumans, or when you get a cheap and really strong unit, like with Sicilians or Romans. There are other civs with distinct power spikes but none are as dramatic and unstoppable.
1. This does not ignore any fundamentals of the game. "Never leave the TC idle" is a tip for us newbies to learn easier, but at high level there are many situations in which the TC is stopped to gain some advantage (especially to up to imperial).
2. No, it does not work. Not leaving the TC inactive or playing a strategy like scouts will be, in the long run, a more winning strategy than this one. After two games against this strategy, you will win 100% of the time (that's why players like White Phosporus, after the T90 video, dropped 300 ELO points, because the win condition was the surprise factor.
3. For the above reasons, it won't change anything. The pros already know everything that these strategies could teach them and there are even among the pros some who take advantage of these principles for years (like Tatoh or Vinchester).
Yes, one of the reasons I prefer AOE 3 in many ways is how much room for "non standard" play there is. I actually would love for AOE 2 meta to be experimenting with the idea.
YouPudding bringing a wind of change to AoE with those scorpions.
Nice
Oh my god I'm old lmao
Oh my fucking god
1111111
I thought laming was going out of fashion but then I heard T90's dad jokes
You might have really proud after that
savage
God damn man, have some mercy!
TOOOOOOO DOOOOOOOOO
I think AoE2 players have accepted "Idle TC is bad, must constantly create villagers" as the golden rule for too long, so when we see all in strats, we all find novelty in it. Youpudding is the player who constantly tries to break that golden rule and finds a way to capitalize around the resources spent for things other than villagers. Definitely need more players like that!
I think we are going to see some youpudding starts in the playoffs of TTL platinum league in the next few weeks.
doubt it. none of the maps work with either.
spiral maybe the best, but the distance and the abundance of food changes a lot.
coast 2 mountain, the distance is too far and leaving fish free is a loss for both strats.
ze wall is out.
hideout has a small chance, but youd know something is up going either civ on that map. Malay would still beat both there too.
golden pit maybe a small chance, distance again though.
fractal might actually be the best bet if you somehow incorporate a dock block and a few fish.
socotra has extremely low chance for the Roman one
I doubt someone goes meme all in unless they're already way up. but it's also heavily telegraphed because neither civ is meta or even close to it. Roman's have been drafted a few times, but other civs would've just did better in the games they were used
good call
Are you kidding, YouPudding was in turn inspired by White Phosporous with the FS Scorpions? The lore deepens, man
loreception
18:59 "This isn't Age of Empires... this is... someone give me a comparison!" - This is... The Scorpion King.
I've seen the "20 knights in 20 minutes" build order. I never thought I'd see "20 scorpions in 20 minutes" , but here we are
20kts in 20min! Man that strat has a long white beard. I‘m glad knights didn‘t get nerved about that. 😂
I whould love to see youpudding continue the saga and continue at the top level, i love those "anti-meta" players that do the craziest strats and make the weirdest games
Got to say I really feel for YouPudding, any new start he develops is going to be instantly revealed at this stage. Hope he doesn't disappear into the ether ala Blue Coffee or Magyard
I dno. He seemed to be nice and stuff to T90 so so I bet he enjoys people seeing what he does.
at 2300 ELO I think it's safe to say YouPudding is here to stay. I hope so anyways
22:15
@@mcarpen89 Yeah people forget that he was already a very strong player even before he played sicilians. He will be fine even if his strategies are exposed and he has to play the regular metagame.
@@mcarpen89 till the devs nerf all these strats
T90 could post a video about this whole Sicilians/YouPudding thing every day and I would never get tired of it
This video should have been titled “I struggle to get it up” 9:20
😂😂😂
We get a ton of scorpions like that here too, after the summer rains.
Yeah it's a shame their natural predator light cav is still in hibernation during the season
"I'm struggling to get it up" - T90, 2023.
I love when creativity can break the meta boredom!
I just checked his Profile. He played Hera with Romans directly after your Game 😮
How did that go?
How did that go?
@@tomyrobinson3196 well, he lost. Got rushed with archers and followed up by scouts. He managed to raid himself with his scorps, but he ended up losing most of his villagers and surrendered.
And a good Tower on the Wood for the beginning
And these strats never really work in the long run because they're so fragile; diminishing returns the further you move up the opponent skill level.
i think he's sat down and done the maths. On both strats. Adding up the pierce armour on the sicilians, adding up the damage and resources on the scorpions.
"Greed is good... but I like Pudding" - Gordon Gekko
Studying tech tree, all in aggression, utilizing civ bonuses, and just commits genius!
when i was i kid, i remember the AI loved scorpions in the first age of empires
They were called ballistas, back then. And Helepolis if you could upgrade them.
Omg I'd be so pumped to see White Phosphoru and Youpuddin teaming up together !! I'd watch any event where both of them play !
Imagine 12 minutes in getting Sargents Scorpions and Rams busting your door down.
@@Appletank8 I wanna see this :D
Youpudding is probably one of the best things to happen to AOE2 for some time, he single handedly shook the meta of this game which is usually very stale
Like when your fav anime introduces the 2nd protagonist halfway through the series, YouPudding is singlehandedly changing the way I view your content. This guy is insanely fresh. He has that fire in him. Immensely enjoying this period of AoE
This guy is single handedly changing the meta
I wish I could do a fraction of what these guys do in 10 minutes. Takes me an hour LOL
Lmfao I was thinking the same thing, like at 15 minutes I'm probably still struggling to get to fuedal haha
I thought somebody could develop a strat around the Roman scorpions, but I didn't expect a 12:30 castle time and double SW forward! 😳
I don't know if you could get the castle up further back. He had 7 scorpions by the time you resigned, that's crazy.
This Youpudding serie as had "TheViper trolling" from years ago, when vipi tested original strats. Quite a few could have been developped to be legit strats. Guess it's time for a new gen of strategies testers !
This is a proper kind of all-in, not a halfway "I'll switch into the meta eventually" strat where the pressure eventually fades.
I cannot get enough of Youpudding, he's probably one of the most creative players I have seen in a long time.
Bulgarians with longswords and rams might be serviceable given the free upgrade?
What an amazing Roman siege rush strategy by Youpudding! Genuinely creative.
The Game he played before:
Me watching: StillT90🫡
Mmmmm puddign
youpudding is a genious at this point
"he's already onto something new" probably bc you're constantly outing his new strategy 😂😂😅
man i like this aoe version. strat based. very entertaining.
You don't need nerfs just creative players and they will find a way to make civs work
man this YouPudding content is great, give us more!
So cool to learn that white phosphorous is not just someone who is able to adapt and improve someone else's strat, but also someone who can create his own. He might be a legend afterall. Love the series. I hope we see more
Wait, given YouPudding Elo, does that mean he's going to be in TTL next season???
As a main Roman Player with over 300 games, I can confirm that Mangonel would win instantly. Knights would also be very good against this. His whole Strategy is based on the timing. He is so fast and his build order is tight. He also plays this very well with his scouting. Imagine he wouldn't see you building a castle. Scorps are very slow. Wish the Castle would have gone up. I would like to know how he progresses from there. Romans Scorps also have great late game potential with the unique techs, but he does not have the eco to ever go Imperial it seems.
It's all in
The counter to YouPudding's playstyle is probably to move your eco around in a similar way to him. For example, this all-in scorpions and rams strat is relying on him sending all his vils to gold and wood. Other players would try to have a more balanced eco with vils on food and possibly stone. YouPudding is able to produce as if he has twice the number of vils he actually has because once he has access to the type of unit he wants to make, he sends all vils to the resources he needs for that unit and nothing else.
If MrGreed had known about YouPudding's strat in advance, he could have sent all his vils to farms (with a few on wood to supply the farms) and he could have been able to produce enough scouts to push back the scorpions. His mistake was in believing he could take gold while trying to push back discounted scorpions with feudal scouts. FC probably wouldn't counter this unless it was similarly all-in but with knights instead of siege
There's nothing worse than letting your opponent go FC without punishing their greed, so the archers were a natural response. Well, that is part of the current meta anyway.
Looking at the time YouPudding built the market & blacksmith anyone could guess it would probably be some wacky all-in, but at that moment it's too late, because YouPudding is already 600 food ahead.
I agree that knowing that this is coming from the get-go is the only way to have a chance. Unlike the Sicilian rush, Roman scorpions are not unstoppable. Maybe the new meta will be just more comprehensive scouting and looking out for these wacky strats...
@@lordmetzgermeister More scouting means less deer-pushing. I wonder what kinds of ripple effects it could have on the entire meta at high ELO if these kinds of strats gain more popularity
The counter is to know the strategy. He will be able to beat you the first time, but after that, he has it pretty tough.
Sicilian FC Rush? make a FC and play monks; Romans FC? go man-at-arms + towers; any other FC strategy? go lame him or go FWD. These strategies are pretty spectacular, but in the long run they don't work. The only "anti-meta" strategy that has survived is Hoang Push and it has done so because Hoang has incorporated meta game features into it: wall, drush, some farms, etc. and even then, Hoang can't get out of 2k4.
@@lordmetzgermeister But that fast castle was brutally fast. By the time your m@a arrive he's already going up. m@a + towers might work as mentioned here, but the strategy is absolutely brutal. The problem is that you can't bounce to food as easily as he can bounce to wood and gold. Foor production requires initial wood investment which makes scout/knights starts much less flexible than archer/scorpion strats.
Early mangonel probably does the trick, but damn that strat is fast.
YouPudding the Scorpion King.
Your video on You Pudding made me go buy the expansion on Steam to try this out. This kind of creativity could be leveraged...
Tbh these strategies aren't specifically about the Sicilians or the Romans, it's a fast castle and using any powerful castle age unit that is powerful from the get go, it could be knights, it could be Hoang celt rush taken to the extreme, what matters is the fast castle and abandoning all hope of making eco for a fast rush.
I feel like this could also work with bulgarians nicely
Damn those scoprions shreded the scouts, was not expecting that.
This guy is a thinker and a doer. Mostly you se only doers and talkers. Youpudding is very refreshing.
Joke around 4:10 was amazing and wholy unexpected. Almost spat out my breakfast
This game is probably the greatest ever and I always felt it is not being played to its full potential. Winning seems always about the meta, apm and spamming units, making it feel tiring and boring, like work I don't want to do. Glad to see people pushing creativity and fun. Life is short.
The white phosphoru you pudding duo is a generational one, allies or rivals regardless
he needed to not fight those scorps in the choke points, and yes a few more scouts
Must remember to check T90 before I play ranked. First game tonight I faced this strategy. Luckily for me managed to defeat it with double stables.
Let's goooo more pudding
Playing as the Aztecs, I fought a smurfing Celt player who used a similar strategy to YouPudding's. Despite my Militia rush in an attempt to set him behind, I only managed to hold out long enough to get a grand total of 4 Eagle Warriors (not Scouts - they're practically useless since they take so long to train) against an army of 10 Scorpions and 3 Battering Rams.
Youpudding is the gift that keeps on giving.
I Really want to see hoang vs youpudding strat
Just yesterday I thought about that, roman longswords in castle get 5 pierce armor as well and the 5% eco boost is strong, but defending without a donjon and the high food cost of longswords made me doubt it
yeah, you need m@a+LS upgrade, and both armour to make them somewhat special. way too expensive
Laming counters youpudding every time. Even if youpudding counter lames, he won’t have enough scouting time to push all the deer he needs.
Creative players like YouPudding and WhitePhosphoru are so important to keeping the game fresh. Those are really good strategies and they are really fun to watch. It forces players out of their meta build orders. Probably in few years those will be an absolutely common strategy incorporated by pretty much everyone in the scene, just like tower rushes and siege+monk all-in strategies. Keep those videos coming T90!
It's not hate towards them, but categorizing these players as "creative" and categorizing the others as "uncreative" when their style of play is to spam the same strategy every game and the style of the others is to improvise in every game according to the matchup, is a bit... strange.
@@kudoushinichi1412adaptive is not the same as creative
Most top level players are incredibly adaptive, but they just use the same variations of meta game that have been there for years just with tiny upgrades over time
These creative players are trying to completely shift the meta and practice a certain brand new strat until they create another
@@suuift Adaptability is the same as creativity, at least in Age of Empires. The metagame is not the way it is just because we copy it, but because it is the execution of the answer we have found to the problems of the game. There is a widespread misconception that metagame means playing archers after playing man-at-arms, when in reality metagame means "making the corresponding move" which is usually playing archers in that situation. Any top 10 player is more creative than any of these "anti-metagame players" (no disrespect to them), anyone who watches a gameplay of TheViper or Tatoh can see that it is a myth that they just "do the same"/"copy" every game.
There is an anti-meta player in the Hispanic community named Biry (T90 made a video for him: "The most annoying player"). Now he is training to play metagame and he himself has recognized that playing metagame requires much more creativity than playing "all in" or "anti-meta", because anti-meta strategies usually depend only on you and not so much on what the enemy does, contrary to playing meta, which is about doing the right thing, based on the information that is available in the game.
Dont nerf the market. What's the point? to remove this type of creative strategies? do we want everyone to play scouts into knights with macro approach?
Hi T90, How about Cumans? They can build a Seige Workshop (blacksmith needed) in Feudal age and roll out some rams?
Then it would be feudal vs feudal, and rams do not help in battle.
@@cambac-pro Well you could still go FC into Capped Ram
@@janhopis going to castle just for capped ram doesnt seem worthy, 300 food with this strat is already too expensive
ID LOVE TO SEE WHITE PHOS VS PUDDING GAME (!)
Now I want to see Youpudding and White Phosphorus play in Team Games or against each other. Like a Youpudding Cup - or "A Cup of Pudding" - what's the minimum for a show match? :D
Watched this then immediately tried it on the ranked ladder, worked very well at ~1500!
Breakfast + Coffee + T90 vid = Life is great
This strat seems so much weaker than the Sicilians one. Castle age serjeant is basically no solution if you are in feudal, while the second game demonstrated Scorpion can be weak against scouts, so there’s some way you can deal with it even if you can’t get to castle.
Wow what a visionary
Feels like people are rediscovering the smush and everyone's crying fix market.
Missionary Rush was my nickname in college
The new Hoang guy! LOL
I hope Youpudding knows he's a blessing and a Legend.
what an incredible show of build order creativity
Anyone with extra strong CA unit and a market - "Is this a new all in rush civ?"
9:20 You heard it here first, folks...
Imagine telling your homie "let's go a 2v2 before we logoff" and you get matched with youpudding and whitephosphoros
Keep discovering these new strategies, YouPudding; keep showing these, T90!
This is what the game needed. Less arabots playing meta strats all time, more new crazy strats that make age of empires true to its nature: crazy all ins.
I wouldn't be too surprised if pudding is a dev that is grumpy because people are not playing his civs the way he envisioned
White Phospheru and YouPudding teamup would be a super fun game!
12.30 to castle, thats a killer strat again.
You pudding shaking up the ranked ladder.
loving youpudding content
I was at Oasis Cafe near Phaya Thai station in Bangkok Thailand this afternoon (October 6, 2023) and saw a guy playing AOE2 on his laptop on the 2nd floor. Wonder which one of us it was lol
You had enough time to focus fire all those scorpions in range of your TC when dropping your castle.
Not even one range upgrade for the arrows, some(1 or 2 at best) might get ranged, but Youpudding came forward a bit later with them to nearly hug the tc after some seconds because there weren't enough villagers(to many died to the scorpions) to really man the TC and try to build the castle, which was vital to T90's survival.
building walls and not going around/ forcing your own units to attack the scorps through a chokepoint is a death sentence. you're funnelling troops into a funnel, shot like fish in a barrel.
we might need to focus on:
cutting off reinforcements while they haven't grouped up
cutting off reinforcements while they're in open terrain
youpudding, phosphorus and hoang in a 3v3 oh boy oh boy
Mr.Pudding quickly becoming one of my favourite Players to watch.
This is my favorite player to watch. hands down, favorite.
.
Imagine versing youpudding and white phosphoru in a 2v2, you have no idea who they are and at minute 15 they show up to one of your bases with 8 castle age sergeants, 8 scorps and 4 rams 😂
If this ain't Age of Empires, then it's World of Tanks, Medieval Edition. That's quite the clever strat, no one expects it.
yay new T90-vid! :)
Western Rome could had survived had they only followed youpuddings strategy
The TC isnt giving any protection because it shot the Ram. T90 need to focus fire on the scorpions
The Scorpion King was right there as a title lol
1 vil out repairng 3MAA has always been such a dumb thing about this game. Its such a huge investment which is so easily countered
He should try this stat with slavs
The ram speed buff we got a month or 2 back really helped this.
This guys is a legend in the making, and he is evolving! Absolute animal.